[Challenge/Playground][Hard-Lunatic] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution

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Offline kilicool64

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Re: [Challenge/Playground][Normal-Very Hard] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2023, 13:55:05 »
When it comes to the Sunset Village, I wasn't referring to the background, but rather the tiles on the right. They're still blue, even though their counterparts in the Lunar Steppes turn green when that place becomes Mount StarFlame.

Just to make sure since you didn't address it, you are aware that I ran into what seems to be a game-breaking bug, right? I don't seem to be able to finish the last phase of Mount StarFlame's defense mission. Nothing happens when the time limit runs out. So I'm stuck on that screen now.

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Offline Shreeps

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Re: [Challenge/Playground][Normal-Very Hard] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2023, 16:48:44 »
The timer doesnt start until you touch the shifts and where you start on the screen probably becomes off at certain points.

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Offline Lucinda

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Re: [Challenge/Playground][Normal-Very Hard] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2023, 06:53:05 »
Change the difficulty to lunatic. I saw Anton play the final portion. There's no way around it. Lunatic. <3
Rome wasn't built in a day.

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Offline kilicool64

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Re: [Challenge/Playground][Normal-Very Hard] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2023, 11:05:48 »
Change the difficulty to lunatic. I saw Anton play the final portion. There's no way around it. Lunatic. <3
Did Anton make full use of the hologram in the end game? I did, and it lowered the difficulty enough that I'd argue even the toughest parts of the end game don't quite exceed what I'd call very hard.

Re: [Challenge/Playground][Normal-Very Hard] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2023, 16:53:27 »
Shreeps saw how I handled the endgame, I started not using holo, then used it as a green button checkpoint, then used it more and more as my patience was running dry in the last parts.

Overall, it's pretty hard, some luck is required on top of solid execution at times, but it's the randomness that kept me going, telling me that I can have better opportunities.

On the topic of lunatic diff, the level "The Safety Sequal" by SecretGlitch made me quit on the second challenge screen of each of the 2 routes, there was no possibilty of lucking things out and demanded way too much skill that I could not provide.
I would also consider 50 regular creatures to be the lunatic side with its extreme RNG fest, even with the save.

This level though ? "very hard" is reasonable to me. Obviously requires a lot from the player, but at no point I thought things were hopeless.

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Offline Shreeps

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Re: [Challenge/Playground][Hard-Lunatic] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2023, 00:12:20 »
The quest guide now helps you keep track of power ups and story events completed that don't show up in your inventory if you keep going right. (Hit down to exit)

The quest guide billboard in game now also tells you it's in level's world folder

Got rid of npc with empty speech bubble on scarlet hillside in late game

You can now return to before the climax starts after finishing the level.  (Before fighting Quintet)

The inside of Altar is Xethiz is now empty if you try to go back during the finale.  (instead of the neverending loop lol)

fixed floating turtles on turt bridge

fixed Valley of Dust tents background sge

Invasions now use absolute target shifts on all screens (so the actual timer to teleport you to the next screen should always start properly.  Not the hourglass timer.)

Added enemies to a few invasion screens (overall slightly harder), removed more critters from more invasion screens to help with lag/clutter.  Should be harder to find 100% always safe spots on many screens.

added more enemies to the late game versions of some areas

castle assault coin97 should no longer hide behind the tent icon on the 2nd version of quest guide

changed it to Hard, Very Hard, Lunatic.  It can be lunatic but mostly just the late game and the finale if you don't use holo.   Final screen of the game is pretty tough though regardless.  Also this might be more in line with the recent slight increased difficulty in invasions and late game.



The steppes/starflame is blue but gets a tint when it becomes starflame.  only the underwater part of that zone is really green.   havent added the tint to sunset village outside paladin temple

current known issue:  in the new inventory section barrier visor shows up as acquired if you don't have hobbit engineering before you do astral corruption in the 3rd version of quest guide

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Offline kilicool64

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Re: [Challenge/Playground][Hard-Lunatic] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2023, 01:55:00 »
Nice. Will check it out at some point. Regarding Sunset Village, perhaps it would theoretically be possible to have that screen use a version of the Mount StarFlame tileset that has the filter baked into it? I don't blame you if that's too much work for such a minor cosmetic alteration, though.

Edit: I think the first bus trip could benefit from a save halfway through. The second half is notably harder, so it's a bit annoying you always have to repeat the slow, yet easy first half when you die. Didn't notice it much the last time, but I died a few times on this playthrough.

Also, the semi-final phase of the Paladin Temple recapture mission has a shining orb where its green button is, yet the final one doesn't. IIRC, the earlier ones didn't have those either, so that seems like an accident.

Edit 2: Why is the Flowering Swamp named Swamps in the guide. If there's only one swamp there, shouldn't it just be called Swamp?

Edit 3: Lacewing Skies has certainly become easier to handle compared to my first playthrough, but there are two phases that stick out as notably harder than what comes after them. The first phase with the side shooters is tough because most of the blocks are placed in the middle. Side shooters are significantly easier to dodge at either a short or long distance, so being forced to spend most of the time at the distance where they're at their most dangerous isn't easy. I actually found the later side shooter phase notably less challenging because it allowed me to spend more time near the edges of the screen. The other difficulty spike is the phase that introduces black birds. I think the time limit is a bit too high. There are enough blocks, but dodging this many homing projectiles for 15 seconds is tricky. I often died a few seconds short.

Edit 4: Is the underground part near the beginning of Silverwood Cemetery still supposed to not be fully illuminated when I have all seven candles? I understand that the dungeon to the right is that way, since it's so dark it requires all seven candles to be traversed at all, but that mini dungeon at the beginning doesn't have that restriction.

Edit 5: Is there really a point in Scarlet Hillside still having the girl who warns you against climbing to the top after the consecration spell has been cast? I assume her purpose is simply to discourage people from going there before the additional save points are there, so why is she still present at the point where you actually should go there?

Edit 6: Found an incorrect tile in the Sand Ditch.

Edit 7: Is Autumn Village supposed to have some destroyed buildings in the distant background even before it actually gets destroyed?

Edit 8: This spot and the one to the right in the Valley of Dust don't seem to allow diving by simply pressing down. Instead, I need to also press the jump button. (Side note: The challenge below this was what almost broke me during my first playthrough. I'm truly glad I now know I can postpone it until I have the flippers because I'd have never replayed this level if it meant doing this challenge with just the snorkel again. It's totally doable with the flippers, but nigh-impossible without them.)

Edit 9: It would be a bit more convenient if the evil wizard tents also saved your game when leaving them. I like to use them as additional save spots, but when there's something inside of them, I always have to enter and leave them an additional time just to make my save include the item I just got. It's not big deal. Just a bit annoying.

Also, there are some occasions where saves on the world map don't place you directly at the location where you died, but right next to it. I understand why these particular saves work this way, but it confuses my muscle memory. A few times, I ended up moving to another location and back first just to make a more convenient world map save.

Edit 10: When I jump on this ledge from below and keep walking, I sometimes end up falling down a tile automatically. Seems the diving mechanic doesn't quite work right here. Not that it's a big deal in this case.

Edit 11: You can't swim above this bank even with the flippers.

Edit 12: You can dive below this spot and start wall-swimming.

Edit 13: I just noticed that the full guide image still claims there's an ingot in Luminous Haven. Wasn't that moved to the Consecrated Cemetery? There are now eight ingots in that image.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2023, 12:38:31 by kilicool64 »

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Offline kilicool64

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Re: [Challenge/Playground][Hard-Lunatic] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2023, 14:38:09 »
The last enemy on this screen hardly ever shoots. It's kind of nerve-wracking getting past it. It usually works, but I can't predict its timing, so I don't know when it'll shoot unless I wait for the rare occasion that it actually does.

Edit: Okay, this is a big one. On my current playthrough, I'm aiming to delay the Astral Cataclysm as long as possible. So I went to the Rosecore early. IIRC, the shop there only sold the Dream Sphere, so I bought it. But the level doesn't seem to have been prepared for this possibility. I used the portal, but it later disappeared again from Scorian Hollows. Furthermore, I only tested the Dream Water in Grassland Vale so far, but it still kills me. And the guide doesn't even list the Dream Sphere, except as an item in the Rosecore that it believes I'm still missing.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2023, 22:43:02 by kilicool64 »

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Offline Shreeps

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Re: [Challenge/Playground][Hard-Lunatic] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2023, 22:11:29 »
I think I'm just going to have the rosecore shop closed until after Astral.  The scissors shares the flag with bus pass and that and Dream Sphere really have no use until after astral.  I don't remember actually having any dream water pre-astral. The Glassland vale has Crystal water but it and eventide/catacombs water gets changed to dream water after astral.  I dont think it can softlock but people could get confused why theres no scissors and not know when to come back later to get them and no point letting people waste the coins on dream sphere so early.

Having the level autosave when exiting the tents was how it worked for  a bit right before release but i changed it back.  Because of how the flag shifts work if you exit a tent and die it will place you back in the pre-astral or non-cape versions of those zones even if you have those.   Sometimes if you ctrl r yourself on the world map it can zone you back to the pre-astral map too.  It should fix though upon actually entering the zone or moving to a different zone on the map.   Also not sure if I can
always have it save directly on the exact tiles due to 3 shift limits.

The cemetery insides dont get fully lit until after consecrate. 

the autumn village background came that way on the tiles but becomes even more destroyed after astral.  Lol. 


Everything else > next version

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Offline kilicool64

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Re: [Challenge/Playground][Hard-Lunatic] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2023, 01:55:34 »
Oh right. I forgot there was a difference between crystal water and dream water. Yeah, I guess in that case, the only things that aren't behaving correctly are that the warp between Scorian Hollows and the Rosecore doesn't stay, that the scissors are falsely believed to have been bought already (even if they would be useless this early) and that the Dream Sphere doesn't disappear from the guide. Since it doesn't actually serve a purpose before the Astral Cataclysm, I guess it's not necessary for the guide to explain what it does.

That said, if you're going to make the Rosecore shop closed until the Astral Cataclysm happens, won't that mean there'll be no warp there? If I understand its shopkeeper correctly, the warp won't appear before you buy something there. Is it only the Scorian Hollows side that's not meant to stay before that? Or would you actually have to backtrack all the way out of the Rosecore if you can't buy anything?

On a side note, I guess it would be weird from a storytelling perspective if you were to obtain all of the Angel Feathers before meeting the goddess. Is that currently possible? If yes, perhaps it would make sense for meeting her to be necessary to access the Rosecore? After all, she's the one who asks you to go there.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2023, 01:59:52 by kilicool64 »

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Offline Shreeps

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Re: [Challenge/Playground][Hard-Lunatic] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2023, 02:12:05 »
The exit portal from Rosecore should always be there unconditionally.   I don't think it's possible to backtrack out except through that portal until you have the cape. 

The catacomb water actually turns crystal not dream.  So you would need to at least meet the Angel after Nyx and get the Ring from Angel Shoppe for the feather in Catacombs and to go to the Spire for the last feather from winning the tournament.   

I think since the Scorian map changes upon Consecrate not Astral I had to set it so you need buy Dream Sphere and have Astral to open the portal.  I could only set it so you need Scissors+DreamSphere+Astral, or Dream Sphere+Astral otherwise the portal at the start of Scorian would already be open to Rosecore as soon as it changes from Consecrate but before doing Astral.  But I think I can change it so the Flag 1 resets  (Since Bus Pass only has one spot I can think of) upon doing consecrate instead of Astral like it does currently that way you only have to buy the Scissors+Astral (cheaper) to open the portal shortcut instead of Sphere+Astral or Sphere+Scissors+Astral. 

It might be best to have the Rosecore shop be locked until after Nyx as that is the only way to guarantee that 'Act XII' always shows up for everyone.  It only shows up after beating Nyx and entering Rosecore but if you were to have already bought the Scissors before then but after Astral Act XII wouldn't show up upon entering Rosecore again.  Plus it gives at least a little time to potentially see Dream Water and not yet know how to overcome it.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2023, 02:15:42 by Shreeps »

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Offline Shreeps

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Re: [Challenge/Playground][Hard-Lunatic] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2023, 00:06:15 »
V6
 
The first underground section in Silverwood already uses the spikes/sneak flag and the candles complicate things too quickly the way i have implemented them.   So I'm just going to leave those 2 rooms unlikely to be used at that point, since Consecrate comes so soon anyway.


The purple blocks in Lacewing Skies should be spread out more on all screens, and  1 block  from the 2nd half of screens was removed.  The final screen of Lacewing now should have 1 hp left  instead of 2.

Fixed Paladin Temple holy spheres that appear when you step on the button.

Fixed spiked walls in the windmill in Penitence Village,  it seemed to use Bus Pass flag instead of Sneak.

fixed diving spots under Knyght's camp, Valley of Rust and bench under Hazelnut City

Fixed (I think) underwater spot in Scarlet Hillside where you can fall off the edge with flippers instead of floating

Rosecore tunnel enemy change

The Rosecore shop is now 'under renovations' until beating Nyx and you meet Radiant Herald for the first time.  Her dialogue about Rosecore is changed slightly.

The shortcut portal from Scorian Hollow to Rosecore opens after buying Golden Scissors from the Rosecore Shop.  If you exit the Rosecore before buying the Scissors the portal back will disappear after leaving that screen.

Changed the flag requirements on the first screen of hazelnut with the bus, so let me know if this screen causes any issues.  Same with changing Rosecore shop and the portal shortcut to Rosecore.

Bus pass info changed flags in quest guide so it should still count as acquired after consecrate.

added save on reaching bottom level of bus interlude I

Fixed tent sge on sand ditch

luminous ingot deleted from folder full spreadsheet

info on Barrier Visor should only show up in the quest guide after returning to the main world with cape.

The background houses seen from autumn village should be more intact until it becomes autumn ruins (tileset edits)

added a screen to scarlet hillside for after you do Consecrate removing the npc dissuading you from continuing.

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Offline kilicool64

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Re: [Challenge/Playground][Hard-Lunatic] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2023, 22:19:26 »
It looks like you can move one tile further to the right than intended in this part of the map.

Also, this has bugged me for a while, but why are the entrances placed to the left of Mossgate Village's small doors?

Edit: Found two issues with the Spirits of Silverwood battle. First of all, you can actually avoid collecting the eye. I don't know if it's possible the first time you enter the screen, but if you die before using any of the save points, you spawn above the eye, allowing you to avoid it. With this, the battle becomes laughably easy, thanks to the spirits still being hidden. I initially expected this to make the level unwinnable, but after completing the battle, I picked up the eye immediately. It seems that I got sent to the precise location where the eye in the Silverwood Crypt that triggers the battle was. Since I never got an eye, it still existed. Regardless, this makes it possible to completely break the battle.

The other issue is that there's a void screen two screens to the right of the warp at the end of the battle. You can reach it by using the umbrella.

Edit 2: Why is there a second instance of a golden creature at the bottom of this screen of the guide?

Edit 3: Some phases in the consecrate mission could use a bit of fine-tuning. When the only threat is ninja skeletons, you can easily avoid their attacks by getting them to all assemble next to you and jumping every time they're about to throw. The exception being the phase with six of them. All I can think of doing there is pray to the RNG that I survive the first two throws. After that, it also becomes effortless. Also, the last two phases have a near-blind spot right next to the spikes. Almost nothing can hit you there. (That doesn't work as well in the phase before them thanks to the spiked ghost.)

Edit 4: Okay, so if I understand correctly, the level has two separate flags for the consecration of Silverwood Cemetery and the appearance of the evil wizards, right? And I believe returning to Gustav's house after the former is triggered is what's meant to trigger the latter. However, if you head to the Valley of Rust with just the former, the evil wizards will already be there (but only in the second part of the area). Rescuing Gustav's lion then progresses the story, causing the evil wizard flag to be triggered despite Gustav never telling you his lion was kidnapped. That seems unintentional.

Edit 5: I just returned to the Old Turt Pond from Hazelnut City after a long absence. The Act II text box popped up again.

Edit 6: Is the Knyght's Camp only supposed to be renamed to the Abandoned Camp after the Astral Corruption happens, even though it already gets abandoned before that?

Edit 7: The third screen for Gustav's farm didn't get updated. It still features Gustav thanking Juni for fixing his fan and the information that the door to the lion is sealed, even though both of them are now helping out with the assault on the castle.

Edit 8: Considering it's the knight to the right of the castle rather than the wizard explaining the orb who tells you of the existence of the library, would it not make more sense for the former to explain how to navigate it?

Edit 9: The diving on this screen still doesn't always work quite right. I sometimes fall down near the part where I was at when I took this screenshot. Can't figure out a pattern.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2023, 23:14:13 by kilicool64 »

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Offline Lucinda

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Re: [Challenge/Playground][Hard-Lunatic] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2023, 07:07:00 »
This level is its own sub-community.
Rome wasn't built in a day.

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Offline kilicool64

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Re: [Challenge/Playground][Hard-Lunatic] [KS+] Gustav's Retribution
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2023, 11:39:22 »
Turns out you also can't swim above this spot.

Edit: With the flippers, you can actually dive right through these blocks. Though I'm not sure anything can be done about that.

Edit 2: This text box suddenly popped up when I reached that spot, despite me having already seen the same text when I fell into the Rosecore. Perhaps it's because I also got the text box for the Altar of Xethiz?

Edit 3: The guide should be updated to make it clear that the golden scissors and the dream sphere are locked behind defeating Nyx. It currently claims you just need the lava armor. Though that might be difficult to do, since there's only one cell for the Rosecore before the Astral Corruption happens.

Edit 4: Looking at the guide, it appears that perhaps the evil wizard flag is actually meant to be triggered by saving Gustav's lion in the Valley of Rust. So perhaps it actually is working correctly after all. It's just a bit weird that you can save the lion before even learning that it got kidnapped.

Edit 5: The dialog for the yellow wizard who can remove Nyx's barrier is bugged. He falsely claimed I still needed two more feathers. Perhaps it's because you didn't expect players to have not only the two feathers from the evil wizard tents, but also the one from the Rosecore? Regardless, I was still able to progress.

On a side note, these weird floating enemies in the Forbidding Archives rotate so rapidly that looking at them too closely actually makes me physically uncomfortable due to my photosensitivity. Can the rate at which they rotate be slowed down?

Edit 6: Is the entrance to that house supposed to disappear once the Valley of Rust becomes the Valley of Dust?

Edit 7: It seems Gustav is quite the escape artist. If you reach Nyx, you can see him and his lion locked up. But if you then return to his farm instead of fighting Nyx, both will be there.

Edit 8: I believe it got nerfed, but the third-last phase of the Nyx battle is still by far the hardest for me. I find that I can only really keep track of the projectiles somewhat reliably while I'm holding down the button. I usually died either before or after that. Dodging side shooters from both directions at a medium distance is already hard by itself. With the addition of lots of homing projectiles, it becomes more than I can keep track of at once.

Edit 9: What's that item near the right wall in the Penitence Village shop supposed to be? It looks like the thing marking the last column of the guide. Don't recall what that is, but I don't have it yet. So the shopkeeper's claim that I already have everything he sells except the watch isn't really true. Also, is that magnet supposed to represent anything? Technically, I don't have that either.

Edit 10: The moon has plenty of spots where enemies can partially shoot through solid tiles as long as you don't have the radiation suit. Was that a side effect of implementing the whole radioactivity mechanic?

Also, the first part of climbing up that tower on the moon (don't remember the location's name and wasn't able to take screenshots) is arguably a bit too hard. You already have to make a rather difficult jump there, but then there's also a side shooter. I'd probably either get rid of it or place a save spot just before the jump.

And some of the moon lord trial's phases are pretty hard, but others are remarkably easy. The phase with the spikey balls in particular can be won by doing literally nothing.

Edit 11: Currently dealing with the defense missions close to the end game. So far, they have indeed gotten more challenging. There are still some relatively easy phases, but not many effortless ones anymore. Though I still managed to find a blind spot in the third-last phase of the Azure Output mission and a near-blind spot in the second-last one. I'd have taken screenshots, but that never works while I'm in the middle of gameplay. It seems my controller mapper somehow interferes with it. Both of them were in corners near the left edge of the screen.

Edit 12: The Mount StarFlame defense mission was by far the easiest so far. I still found blind spots in three of the phases. Again, I couldn't take screenshots, but hiding in corners can prove very effective at times.

Edit 13: Peach Woods was also mostly easy. Only found a complete blind spot in one of the first phases, but some others had spots that protected me against all attacks except those from one of these enemies that crawl on the ceiling and shoot fireballs. They're not dangerous by themselves.

Edit 14: Pumpkin Village was harder overall, but still had a few spots that offered guaranteed protection or close to that. The second (?) phase allowed me to hide in the corner on the right edge of the screen. Another one let use the water to block all projectiles (though perhaps you were aware of that, given that a later phase on that screen put lots of slimes in there). And the last one let me hide next to the fan.

Edit 15: Aside from the last phase, Ellictus was incredibly easy. With flames as the only noteworthy hazard, most phases just involved charging towards him.

Edit 16: I had to use the guide to figure out what place Orange Valley is supposed to be. The map still calls it the Abandoned Camp.

Edit 17: Okay, so Agatrix is also one of Xethiz's minions? In that case, why did she throw the fight in the arena? I originally assumed she was just some random weakling who had no idea what she signed up for.

Edit 18: The difficulty of the second phase of Agatrix's true form is heavily dependent on the starting direction of the ghost slime. If it goes left, it's incredibly tough, seeing how it will get in your way before you're quite done pressing the button. If it goes right, it's notably easier, but still the hardest phase.

Edit 19: Do Ellictus and Agatrix really have the same sprite? They do on the guide.

Edit 20: The world map behaved a bit weirdly after Xethiz appeared. At first, my movement was slowed down and I couldn't enter locations. But after moving to the screen to the right, the normal behavior was restored again. Was this deliberate?

Edit 21: The first Eternal Annihilation mission has a phase with a huge amount of slowdown. However, this doesn't affect the real timer, so it runs out long before the visually displayed one.

Edit 22: At the end of Bella's Eternal Annihilation phase, I could see the screen with Gustav for a split second before it turned white and faded back to it. That didn't happen with the others so far.

Edit 23: You forgot to update a damaged house in the credits image for Autumn Village.

Edit 24: The credits image for Penitence Village needs to be updated to no longer say Penitance Village.

Edit 25: Does its credits image really depict the foliage in the Celestial Oasis accurately? I thought it had a trippy filter applied to it.

Edit 26: I think black text would be more readable on the Wyrmridon Catacombs' half of their credits image.

Edit 27: The first credits image for the COs doesn't actually say who made the extra spreadsheet icons.

Edit 28: The last credits image doesn't seem to say who made the sprites for the five disciples.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2023, 23:58:59 by kilicool64 »