Mafia 3 - Town victory

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Offline Razzorman

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Re: Mafia 3 - Day 1
« Reply #105 on: June 11, 2009, 14:46:16 »
Are you suggesting that looking for solid evidence before voting is a bad thing? That's the way it comes out to me, and I just cannot follow that advice with a good conscience.
There isn't much solid evidence that can be gathered in the first day. In the end, we will all have to base our votes on some amount of speculation. How much you want to guess on is completely up to yourself.
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Offline Firecat

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Re: Mafia 3 - Day 1
« Reply #106 on: June 11, 2009, 17:38:43 »
Well, i dont know who to vote, even more, im kinda lost  :sick: we have to beware, the last round we lnych too many good roles.
There's 110011 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, Those who don't, and those who confuse it with ASCII.

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Offline Bored2death

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Re: Mafia 3 - Day 1
« Reply #107 on: June 12, 2009, 06:36:33 »
It's obvious nobody else is doing anything. To get this going, I'll vote for the most suspicious person to date. I really don't want this game to die... so, here's my vote:
Vote: NESgamer190
Reasons are explained above, in previous posts. I can understand the stress thing, but nobody else has acted this way. You have been overreacting from the start, and if I was to vote, you're the one I would vote for right now. You'd better be scum...
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Offline Lunar_Tick

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Re: Mafia 3 - Day 1
« Reply #108 on: June 12, 2009, 11:17:58 »
On Bored:
I dropped it because, after all, it is the first day, and we have no hard evidence, other than one past lie.
About the lie: I don't think any mafia would be dull enough to use the argument "I've never been the Mafia before", as it fails so easily.
If you had no solid evidence why did you vote in the first place?

It is obvious that NES has some kind of power role, but we don't know what kind yet. This is my first time playing, but I can understand if NES has a power role and wants to stay alive, that's fine, as long as it benefits the town.
You seem very convicted of your opinion of NES, I do not know what to make of this. What makes you think NES is definitely a power role? What if NES is just a regular townie and we're just blowing things out of proportion while the Mafia slip under our nose?

The rest of your post (reply #85) is your opinions of those who are inactive diluted in pro-town pep talking. You essentially have given nearly no reason for your sudden retraction other than "I made a mistake", which is fine in itself, but don't try (if you are) to inflate your posts with hot air.

Anyway, wanted to ask if the investigator would, if they found the mafia, reveal themselves to the public to let us know.
What would be your strategy having heard an investigator claim?

We'll see if everyone's still awake, first! Or, if anyone else is alive (has stuff been going on that I was left out on :shocked:? Everyone's dead... all my town friends...  :sad: that's why they stopped replying... uh-oh... I'm the mafia's next target!
Huh?

Are you suggesting that looking for solid evidence before voting is a bad thing? That's the way it comes out to me, and I just cannot follow that advice with a good conscience.
Who are you taking about? Who suggested that solid evidence searching is bad? :S
Also what advice? I don't see the connection with any previous post. You must be referring to Budja's post, but it doesn't make much sense.

On NES:
But alas, nobody trusts a wretch...
Huh? Explain.

I'm going to have to blindly vote T3c4n0g33k.
Why did you feel the need to vote Techno blindly? It's illogical. A townie doesn't feel the need to vote randomly.

As for voting, I might as well unvote if what the post at the time was proves true.
What post? Huh? You illogically voted and the illogically unvoted, it looks like.

I'm simply glad to see that logic has come through to the people, and for that, I am going to be grateful for.
What logic? You have provided us with nothing. What I said was that we should be cautious with lynching. If suspicion manifests itself in votes, then some of the votes on you were justified.

On NES:
I'll have to break my own rules by not using a quote to start a new argument on a suspect, but I would have to quote pages of angst ridden filler to talk about you.  X)

I consider it of poor sportsmanship to use situations and arguments independent of the game as tools in the game. Your behavior can either be explained and justified within the game, or must remain unexplained.
This is because all arguments which can't be checked inside the game (such as blaming strange behaviour with a real-life recent event) cannot be checked at all. Thus all such self-supporting arguments must be annulled.
NES, your behaviour remains unexplained in my eyes, and suspicion against it is entirely justified.

I make another point:
Let us assume you are a townie or at least a pro-town role.
Why in the world would you want to draw attention to your own death rather than honestly try to look for actual mafia? I would expect a townie in that position not to flip-out, as that is scummy, but rather battle the arguments against him with truth and, more importantly, question other players in attempt to expose Mafia.
If the townie has actually been acting suspicious (for any reason) then that townie is doomed. Why would a townie act suspicious? Only in rare tactical occasions (which usually occur in the last days) do townies purposefully attempt underhand schemes.

Let us assume you are scum.
Drawing attention to oneself also doesn't make sense, as it is not a classic mafia move at all. A mafia would not be so fragile as a mafia would expect common attacks against him.

This is where my argument get's stuck. I cannot imagine you being any town or mafia aligned role. Which brings me to my very sketchy conclusion, that NES being a serial killer is less likely than NES being a bit mad. Therefore I cannot say with even mediocre conviction what role NES is.

On Razzor:
[...]

Of course, he could still be mafia, and simply unvoted because he felt he was under pressure. That is just speculation though, and its nothing I want to base my vote on.
In fact, since neither his unvote has been properly justified nor his vote on NES in the first place, his eventual unvote makes him more suspicious, to me. A common Mafia tell is vote-switching to cater for the changing views of the town. However I'm not comfortable with a Bored vote or a FOS at the moment.

On Budja:
FoS: Lunar, Bored2Death for role-fishing, Lunar at least should know better.
Seriously how many times do you want to mention that NES probably has a PR.
Even if you suspect as much, you don't have to declare it to the whole town.

vote: Lunar for reasons above.
My alleged role-fishing was a theory. It has not been tested and can't be used as evidence on par with results from thorough questioning.
It was a rebuttal of the arguments against NES; a statement that an alternative explanation could be the case. I noticed that NES could be a power role, and saw that NES was most likely going to be lynched when the inactives came around (as they do once a month and vote he who has most votes :P). I felt that stating clearly my belief of NES' possible pro-towniness I could be saving a possible doctor or investigator from a very hasty lynch.

On the other hand, I took into consideration that NES might be completely scummy, and I decided that I would mount an examination of NES later on, when his life was not on the line, when I had time to make sure of my position on him. He may be a plain vanilla, although I stand by my position that it is most likely he is not.


You vote for me is strange. You attack me on role-fishing, when it is Bored who speaks with the most conviction and frequency on this subject. While your argument clearly supports that Bored is the more suspicious, you set me as your prime target. Why? You seem to contradict yourself by voting me and not Bored.


NES's use of language seems still slightly forced. I have never seen NES speak in such prose before.
Indeed. He likes his Middle English but NES is behaving out of character.

Also, I'd be most comfortable with an inactive lynch. Think about it. The mafia and the SK will favour killing peeps who talk, so they can dominate. Imagine having an endgame where conversation is basically led by a mafia. Or worse, where conversation isn't led, because it doesn't exist.

Forgive any mistakes, wall of text :3
Νίψον ἀνομήματα μὴ μόναν ὄψιν

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Offline Budja

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Re: Mafia 3 - Day 1
« Reply #109 on: June 12, 2009, 12:16:23 »
Alright, that makes sense. I can't deny the fact that this board is fond of quick-lynches. I am not fully happy with it, but I can understand it.

I voted for you over Bored solely on meta-based reasons. I was surprised you would do such a move because I know you too be a good player.

Quote from: Lunar
Also, I'd be most comfortable with an inactive lynch. Think about it. The mafia and the SK will favour killing peeps who talk, so they can dominate. Imagine having an endgame where conversation is basically led by a mafia. Or worse, where conversation isn't led, because it doesn't exist.

I don't like inactive lynches but you are right. I don't want a NES lynch (at least until I can actually understand him)
and I don't really fancy any alternatives at this time. At the least, this will encourage activity. vote: Igiari as I have yet so see a mafia game where he posts more than once or so. (Hows that for a 180 view-change :P)

@Town, if you have "nothing to post", you are not looking. You could agree/disagree with someone, state your position on an issue (e.g. NES, lurker lynch, whatever), you don't have to post that much, just at least let us know you are actually alive.

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Offline Kasran

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Re: Mafia 3 - Day 1
« Reply #110 on: June 12, 2009, 15:39:33 »
Hrm.
This is one of the reasons why I don't usually join this game: I'm always outclassed as far as arguments go. :P

(The other reason is because I have been lynch-meat in the past.)
grao!

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Offline NESgamer190

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Re: Mafia 3 - Day 1
« Reply #111 on: June 12, 2009, 21:05:11 »
@ Lunar's guess of me being a vanilla and the town is blowing it outta proportion.
I can assure you Lunar, that you are not a lunatic for thinking that.  In all due honesty, the reasons of my objectionable logic was just about dissected, but to fit the final part of the puzzle of the logic of yours, if I read well, is whether I was venting, or a genuine serial killer.  I've to say that I am gravely sorry for my mood swings lately, as well, junk happens to the best.  So Lunar, I might as well give confessions to all the quotes that belonged to me.
Quote 1:  That little statement was my underconfidence that savagery would win over civilization, and that once I was condemned, I'd see that dreadful stake of wood.
Quote 2:  Being honest, I wanted to keep this secret, but I've to confess.  I actually thought of getting information from techno...  Much like how everyone thinks to reveal the truth.  I see I've failed rather miserably, and only brought me to the verge of being the tree's first ornament.
Quote 3:  I was referencing Bored2death's theory of techno potentially being a POWER role.
Quote 4:  Alas, this was indeed a moment of me spewing garbage.  I just was in slight relief there.
History incident:  Another idiotic moment I pulled, several times in hopes of dissuading people to hang me and try to repeat the history of a mafia win.  Overall, I used history rather foolishly and am doomed to repeat my potential death.
Unusual moves:  What in heck was I supposed to do!?  Get hung only to blurt out something potentially fatal to the town?  I merely had to try and save my rear, so the town wouldn't detriment.  Translation:  I was trying to defend myself, and nearly failed at that.
Final part of theory:  I've to say the theory's fairly developed, but the conclusion unfortunately is faulty for one vital fact.  [vital fact]What if there is no serial killer?[/vital fact]
If there are any more questions, please do not hesitate to ask...
Unretired.
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Offline Shawnachu

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Re: Mafia 3 - Day 1
« Reply #112 on: June 12, 2009, 23:07:34 »
Quote from: Purple Pineapple
Serial Killer

Every night you can kill one person by PMing me their name.  You win when you equal or outnumber the town. If it's you and a mafia member, you win. If it's you and a mafia roleblocker, the mafia wins.

...there is a Serial Killer.  :huh: What are you talking about?

Also, the fact that you randomly voted T3c4n0g33k and not Lunar_Tick (who actually has a vote) makes it look like you don't care who lives or dies.

(About my statement that there's no way to get an accurate lynch on the first day, I completely agree that more conversation leads to more info for the town. You still can't get solid evidence, though. :/ However, pushing people into a corner makes them more likely to make mistakes)

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Offline Bored2death

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Re: Mafia 3 - Day 1
« Reply #113 on: June 13, 2009, 00:39:25 »
First, by the way, he isn't using leet speak anymore... it's technogeek now. Anyway, chances are there is a serial killer, and we didn't imply NES could only be a serial killer, so why defend yourself from being sk? You don't seem to defend yourself from being mafia there...
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Offline Razzorman

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Re: Mafia 3 - Day 1
« Reply #114 on: June 13, 2009, 14:42:29 »
Also, the fact that you randomly voted T3c4n0g33k and not Lunar_Tick (who actually has a vote) makes it look like you don't care who lives or dies.
He randomly voted for technogeek in the beginning of the day, at which point it is sort of OK to do that. This was way before Lunar said anything at all.

Anyway, chances are there is a serial killer, and we didn't imply NES could only be a serial killer, so why defend yourself from being sk? You don't seem to defend yourself from being mafia there...
He could simply have misunderstood Lunar when he said:
Quote
I cannot imagine you being any town or mafia aligned role. Which brings me to my very sketchy conclusion, that NES being a serial killer is less likely than NES being a bit mad.
NES probably just skimmed through the post to get the greater picture instead of reading it more carefully. This seems a little weird to me. Why are you rushing your defense NES?

Also, Bored, why do you get so worked up every time NES says something? You seem to be very focused on him right now.
Just theoretically; if you where forced to vote, and can't vote for NES, who would it be?
My only star: :hiddenstar:

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Offline Bored2death

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Re: Mafia 3 - Day 1
« Reply #115 on: June 13, 2009, 17:26:18 »
If that was the case, it would be Budja... theoretically, of course. The reason would be that Budja seems to keep trying to lead everybody to just vote for one person or the other, possibly because he doesn't care who's lynched, as long as somebody's lynched? At this point in the game, one can't have enough hard evidence to make a really good vote... however, if we could get the game progressing, we'll have more evidence...
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Offline NESgamer190

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Re: Mafia 3 - Day 1
« Reply #116 on: June 13, 2009, 17:59:01 »
My reason for rushing defense:  The time to present defense gradually shrunk and at an alarming rate.  It was either rush my defense and potentially botch my defense, or go at it slowly and risk being a tree ornament.  Knowing typical mafia works, the town usually starts with a savagely fast lynch for day one, so out of savage (or I should say paranoid) reaction, I had to quickly prepare a defense statement, so in this case, it wasn't due to I wanted to (and believe me, I do not want to botch my defense), but I had to go swiftly or get killed in a grueling manner that wouldn't be right.

(Translation:  I basically was put on rush job with the votes compiling quickly, and as I have mentioned before, was thrown into a state of literal panic, so I had to act fast to save my skin.)
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Offline TechnoGeek

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Re: Mafia 3 - Day 1
« Reply #117 on: June 13, 2009, 18:01:53 »
i think a time limit should be set at this point. this has been going on for a while, and we seem to be getting nowhere.
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Offline Bored2death

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Re: Mafia 3 - Day 1
« Reply #118 on: June 13, 2009, 18:10:54 »
I am in total agreement.
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Re: Mafia 3 - Day 1
« Reply #119 on: June 13, 2009, 18:37:08 »
I agree also.