[Challenge/Maze][Hardcore][Large][KS+] Echos

Echos is an experimental level that started as 2 different prototypes,
1. "randomly generated KS levels"
2. "perma-death"

Basically a roguelike in KS. 

As I was testing these concepts, the level gradually evolved into a full (and massive) level. The core idea is that you have limited "attempts" or "runs" to gather resources and powerups for the village, each time you die you'll lose a resource I'm calling "Echos" and if you run out of Echos you lose all your progress and have to start over from the very beginning.

These mechanics bring a unique twist, where the challenges in the level are not themselves very difficult (probably ranked as Normal to Hard), but with the pressure of losing it all, they suddenly add a new dimension. Plus with the random generation the level has a slightly different feel each time you play it!

Classic Mode (A tough but rewarding challenge!)
https://knyttlevels.com/levels/TigerNDV%20-%20Echos%20%28v3%29.knytt.bin

Lite Mode (Good practice to learn the layout with less stress)
https://knyttlevels.com/levels/TigerNDV%20-%20Echos%20v3%20%28Lite%29.knytt.bin

Good luck and have fun!

Update v2:

-Updated several screen visuals to be a bit less bland
-Added alternative routes to a few seeds
-Updated a few screen layouts to have a more smooth flow
-Fixed GC 40 location, (he was attached to the wrong seed in the echo manual)
-Fixed one puzzle that was impossible if the player had eyeball on a specific seed
-Fixed a bug on lite mode where a block was not solid when it should have been
-Improved file size of a few images

Original post modified with new level links!

Update v3:

-Added new seed possibilities for super secret areas
-Fixed a weird wallswim flag bug
-Reduced file size significantly
-General improvements to various areas of the level
-Pacing and polish updates

Awesome. You are always taking KS in places I would never imagine.

This level is quite nerve wracking at times - in a good way! We got a taste of that feeling in The Manor with limited hearts but permadeath brings it to a whole new level. Fortunately, things get a lot calmer once you get a full loadout of power-ups (easier said than done).

If you don't mind giving a peek under the hood, how does the seed generator work? (I'll admit, the 3 "loading screens" were the only part I would skip/teleport past as walking it became tedious. Hopefully the seed wasn't based on Juni's movement in those screens but it doesn't seem like that affected things).

It looks like you have 3 main versions of the map. Does it take pieces from each and overlap them depending on the seed? I'm sure I can dig into the level editor to find out more.


Also heads up - on the very left-most screen (e.g. seed 148 where's two ghost blocks over water) if you double jump and glide one screen left you will fall into the void.

Hi, thanks for playing and for letting me know about that void screen! (It's been so hard finding all the bugs and softlocks with how many seed combinations are possible! Thankfully that one is pretty minor and easy to fix!)

On the tech side of things, yes those 3 "loading screens" do in fact determine the seed so skipping past it will most certainly impact the seed results, I'd be careful with doing that.

The way it works is that Juni is shifted in an infinite loop between 3 different screens per each of the 3 loading screens
(screen 1 shifts between 1 2 3 )
(screen 2 shifts between 4 5 6 )
(screen 3 shifts between 7 8 9 )

On each shift one flag in that group is set true and the previous flag in that group is set false and since Juni's walk and jump animations are slightly random +humans are not 100% consistent with their inputs the timing at which they get through each screen if makes the flags semi-random (just enough to make this work).

This means once you exit the final "loading screen" you'll have 1 flag set at random from each of the 3 loading screens.
1,2,3
4,5,6
7,8,9
This will then display as the "seed" of your run. (the collection of 3 different flags) (27 unique combinations)

Then the way the world generates is that every screen will warp to 1 of 3-4 variations based on which flags are active.

Fox example:
screen 1 might warp based on flags 1,2,3
screen 2 might warp based on flags 4,5,6
screen 3 might warp based of flags 7,8,9

Therefore as a player walking through screen 1 into 2 into 3 it will always be a slightly different experience and always feel slightly different because each of the flags will likely be in a different order (although once you play it enough you'll start to quickly recognize certain layouts)

Tiger, this is insanely cool and fun. Loving this.
Edit: the frustration and fear makes this infuriating and addicting
Edit 2: the slightly changing modular structure makes the atmosphere feel surreal and abstract. This will be quite the journey on my plane ride tomorrow

Glad to hear you're enjoying it!  This level made me feel ways I've never felt in KS before (fingers crossed that's a good thing) and I hope that is true for everyone else too!

Have a safe flight! Enjoy your journey into the Hollowlands!

The way it works is that Juni is shifted in an infinite loop between 3 different screens per each of the 3 loading screens

For what it's worth, I did not notice a skewed distribution of seeds with the teleport method. Assuming that each "flicker" on those screens is Juni being shifted, it seems like this happens many times per second and there may be enough variance in where I click to teleport to that it still came out semi-random. That said, you obviously made the path that long for a reason and I went back to doing it as intended.

This level made me feel ways I've never felt in KS before (fingers crossed that's a good thing) and I hope that is true for everyone else too!

It really could be the start of a new sub-genre!

Yup, that path was intentional, but even just waiting a second or two before cheat teleporting would suffice if you wanted to keep at that method. As long as your experience isn't only on the same seed repeatedly then you're getting the intended experience!

I think there's a lot of idea potential with this method of level generation! In the future if I have the time and energy for another KS project I might elaborate on this idea a whole lot more! (This potential future project is the reason I made the "Echos" level to begin with!)

I too am getting feelings and vibes that I've never gotten from KS before. I never thought I would like the "roguelike" genre all that much because the examples I've seen aren't quite to my taste (eg Binding of Isaac) but combining roguelike and KS is really cool

ETA: I had a really great time playing it on the plane, made three hours zip by

wow the concept is just brilliant ! I'll give it a try tonight :-)