They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV

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They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV
« on: October 22, 2021, 07:41:16 »
Hey all, I'd like to introduce my latest level "They Cry Out", this time focusing on a much more hardcore experience with difficult parkor, unique puzzles and a new spin on knytt stories enemies!

Normal Mode (very hard)
https://knyttlevels.com/levels/TigerNDV%20-%20They%20Cry%20Out.knytt.bin
Easier Mode
https://knyttlevels.com/levels/TigerNDV%20-%20They%20Cry%20Out%20%28Easy%29.knytt.bin


Although the level isn't that long it's definitely my most creative one to date with some of the modern KS+ features and I'd love to hear what you thought about it!
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 20:58:04 by real_TigerNDV »
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Offline pfrangip

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Re: They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2021, 21:59:33 »
I'm playing this now!

I just got to one of the first main story points...  :whoa:

EDIT: Just finished it!

Spoiler: The Great (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: The Not So Great (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 22:54:26 by pfrangip »

Re: They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2021, 22:15:34 »
I actually nerfed it quite a bit haha, I might have to start making difficulty splits in my levels  :/

To me the hardcore (but not punishing) levels in KS are some of my favorite so I usually make levels in that way haha. I can see the difficulty being an accessibility issue for people who are looking for something a bit more casual though, note taken!

Curious to hear your thoughts when you beat the level!
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Offline pfrangip

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Re: They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2021, 23:07:13 »
I edited the post with my post-level thoughts. But I also wanted to share this: https://i.imgur.com/OkyPoEI.png

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Offline canteven / ncrecc

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Re: They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2021, 23:57:28 »
If this is your most creative level, I'm not sure why you locked what I presume to be the second half of the level behind this pixel-perfect (subpixel-dependent?) Lunatic-tier trickjump... with no nearby death tiles and no way to quickly return to the ledge if you miss the jump, making you hit Ctrl+R every time you fail. :|



I tried this for about 20 minutes (the other challenges so far were 5 minutes tops - and the longer ones actually involved enemies and whatnot to keep it interesting), and I hit the left edge of the block at eye level several times with Juni being a pixel too low to actually grab onto it. I'm sure the rest of the level is great, but this area of this screen ruins it for me.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 00:22:54 by canteven / ncrecc »
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Re: They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2021, 01:33:56 »
Well quite the adventure, ~1h30 for completion with a bit of secrets.

I must say the story is very compellingly interesting all the way through with an evolution that has been throughly studied in every aspect.
The platforming was challenging and involved harder bits along the way with uniqueness in the jumps used.

The beginning curves up a little and stays on a similar difficulty pace for the rest of the game.
The setups were also interesting to figure out on how to make a few sections a bit easier.

There were also some puzzly bits in a platforming aspect that were interesting to figure out.

A few detailed notes:
There are a few issues to note though.
The jump described by canteven is extremely precise and requires a fair deep knowledge of hard platforming (that I had forgotten for years now and in a different context) to beat (~20 minutes).
None of the other jumps had such requirement and makes it a big difficulty spike.

One wall can also be passed through with specific V-string (aka vertical subpixel setup depending on the starting position + speed) and skip a whole section as you may have seen.
Although no idea if it comes at a cost of a softlock since you go from darkness to surface ?
Block shifts or a 2 line wall could help to prevent this.

Visibility can be heavily hindered in a few aspects. Darkness 1's first bug blends a bit too well with the background (unless it's my use of night mode on my screen lighting).
A few of the vines in last darkness also blends in with the (green) background, making it a bit difficult to know where walls can be climbed or not.

It also goes with my next point about consistency, there are walls not covered by vines that aren't climbable.
This can be crucial in this hard platforming level, because it's something you learn in the first couple of screens.

Noticing that walls not vined can't be climbed makes it more difficult to figure out the pathing and how to progress.
Keeping consistency in the setups is again important on a high level of platforming because it can render the experience frustrating otherwise.

The bottom wood in Tower is also a bit buggy and need precise placement to be passed through from up top (can't fall through from the right side but only center / center right).

That would be my review on this beautiful work of art and attempt at a complexely difficult level creation.
It is very hard to balance each save correctly in the whole picture because it can matter a lot in a high level of platforming.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 20:53:54 by PigeonVoyageur »

Re: They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2021, 01:45:04 »
Thank you everyone for the notes so far, I have decided to make an alternate easier version of the map for those who want a more balanced experience. That can be found on the archive here.
https://knyttlevels.com/levels/TigerNDV%20-%20They%20Cry%20Out%20%28Easy%29.knytt.bin

From now on I will consider making an "easier mode" from within my levels themselves.

Thank you for the bug reports, and great notes on the visibility and consistency of climbable areas. I will keep those in mind in the future.


I hope you guys enjoyed!
Twist the rules, go where nobody has gone before.

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Offline Polana

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Re: They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2021, 12:45:44 »
I really liked the tilesets and most of the custom enemies (the walking toast looks quite weird IMO). It was too hard for me (I played the original version) and most of the time I felt like I missed some power ups. The story was interesting, especially the paralel journey of the knight and the darkness.

Re: They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2021, 19:54:11 »
I edited the post with my post-level thoughts. But I also wanted to share this: https://i.imgur.com/OkyPoEI.png

I LOVE this. You could say I love how much everyone hates the walking toast haha. He's terrifying lol.
There is only one powerup to be found, about halfway through the level (double jump) outside that it's just a really hard parkor map.

@everyone In terms of game mechanics, what are some of your favorite things to see? I know some people hate the dialogue/story of my levels, so I'm curious what your favorite aspects are, and what I should do more of? And less of?
Twist the rules, go where nobody has gone before.

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Offline egomassive

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Re: They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2021, 18:19:30 »
There's a lot I like about your levels including the dialogue/stories. My favorite thing has to be the original characters. I like levels with exploration, puzzle elements, secrets, and stories. But, it's nice to have variety. Even if levels don't fit my preferences, that doesn't mean I won't enjoy them.

In this one I cheat-saved extensively, but the only jump I couldn't make was the one ncrecc mentioned. I made some trick-jumps I've never made before. I played through twice, so I could get all the CGs and those mushrooms --was there any point to the mushrooms? I wish I'd known there was an easy version before my second trip. Guess I'll need to make a third.

Edit: I've played the easier version now, a lot more playable for me. I didn't cheat except for screen x1025y1003. Those are two very precise jumps stacked up, to finally make the first jump only to fall back below it is harsh.
Spoiler: also (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 23:28:17 by egomassive »

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Offline ixMarcel

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Re: They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2021, 01:23:08 »
I'm sleepy so I'm not going to write much, great level, really good job. I played it during my stream and enjoyed it a lot. You can watch it here, I comment on it in more detail if you're interested.

Re: They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2021, 15:35:38 »
ixMarcel I loved watching your stream and seeing all you had to say, thank you for the amazing reward of playing and recording my level. I LOVE watching all of you play through my levels (in fact that's my biggest inspiration to keep making them)

In terms of feedback and notes, I appreciate all you guys had to say on this! Once again plenty for me to learn and refine on my design skills! I always try to make my levels feel unique and bring something different, but of course this brings additional challenges with it! I think I'd like to start Beta testing levels before release in the future if anyone is interesting in that. What would be the best way to do this? Through the discord?

Thanks again everyone for playing, please always link me to your videos/streams/whatever. Watching you guys and hearing from you is why I make content for this game!
Twist the rules, go where nobody has gone before.

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Offline GrayFace

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Re: They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2021, 18:14:48 »
Liked it a lot!

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

@everyone In terms of game mechanics, what are some of your favorite things to see? I know some people hate the dialogue/story of my levels, so I'm curious what your favorite aspects are, and what I should do more of? And less of?
More save spots, less randomized enemies (specifically those that act more as distractions during other challenges rather than the challenge itself). You're really nailing it, great levels!
« Last Edit: October 25, 2021, 18:25:06 by GrayFace »

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Offline GrayFace

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Re: They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2021, 01:28:02 »
DonDoli streamed the level yesterday: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1187833445 (starts at 7:39)

Re: They Cry Out [Hard/Very Hard/Challenge] - TigerNDV
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2021, 02:01:59 »
This was a great watch! Thanks for sharing, I didn't realize how niche some of these jumps would be haha.
Twist the rules, go where nobody has gone before.