If you were to come up with a block?

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Offline Nifflas

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If you were to come up with a block?
« on: May 26, 2017, 14:31:50 »
So, say I'm hypothetically having more plans for Uurnog, if you were to come up with a new block, what would it do?

It's coded so that each block does something when used, and can also respond differently to each damage type: push, pew pew, explosion, use disintegrate, and stack (yes, weird as it is, use and stack are implemented as damage types).

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Offline StraightFlame

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Re: If you were to come up with a block?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2017, 16:01:34 »
I'd go with a block that has absolutely no momentum and stays in mid-air when you throw it or double-jump with it. It would basically be a kind of platform you can place wherever you want (as long as "wherever you want" can be reached by jumping while holding a block). Once it's thrown, it will move maybe one or two pixels in the direction you threw it, and then immediately stop. After that, the only way to move it is by picking it up and placing it somewhere else.

If it absolutely needs to do something when you use it, here's a slight variation: The block could still be thrown like any other block, but using it activates a countdown like on the bombs, and when it reaches 0, the block immediately freezes in place and can no longer be moved in any way. You can't even pick it up. Obviously it can still be destroyed, though.

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Offline Nifflas

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Re: If you were to come up with a block?
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2017, 17:09:55 »
Nice! That's definitely doable! It's basically just altering gravity and drag, and I can use the bird code to keep it oriented with the right side up.

A possible way to implement "use" would be to toggle this behavior.

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Offline LPChip

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Re: If you were to come up with a block?
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2017, 19:38:31 »
I would create a gun that can shoot 2 blocks. The first block is labelled A, and the second one is labelled B. (or nice visuals) When you use either, you get teleported to the other block as long as you are in the same room. Of cource you cannot carry the gun while teleporting and you cannot move the teleport blocks either. But if you shoot the gun for the third time, block A is destroyed and respawned where you shoot at.

If you put the gun in your inventory, both teleporter blocks vanish, preventing you from taking the gun with you and get past obstacles that way.

I think it would be best that the bullet travels until it hits something and forms a block at that spot.

That would allow you to collect blocks you otherwise can't get.
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Offline StraightFlame

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Re: If you were to come up with a block?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2017, 21:09:13 »
Golly, that's quite a unique and interesting gun/block concept you've got there, LPChip! I sure wonder how you managed to come up with such a groundbreaking mechanic!

(In all seriousness, though, i think it's actually a fairly solid idea. It grants you just enough extra mobility to not be completely overpowered or underpowered, and i can already see it being used for those good ol' Nifflas-style secrets in quite a few ways.)

(Also, i like what you did with your Steam username.)

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Offline LPChip

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Re: If you were to come up with a block?
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2017, 00:06:14 »
Hehe, yup. That is basically my idea. :D

And thanks. There's actually a website that allows you to enter text and it gives you the result ready to copy/paste. Unfortunately, it doesn't work on mobile devices, which is why I haven't set it as displayname here on the forum.
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Offline kilicool64

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Re: If you were to come up with a block?
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2017, 22:23:02 »
Hope it's not too late for suggestions. I came up blank at first, but during a brainstorming session, I suddenly got a crapton of ideas for new blocks.



Bombs, beetles and aliens corresponding to the other types of guns and lasers:

Things like teleport aliens, use bombs or damage beetles.

Cute animal:

Completely stationary while onscreen. Using it either puts it to sleep or wakes it up. While asleep, it's completely inactive. When awake and offscreen for a few seconds, it will target the nearest offscreen animal, then instantly teleport there and replace it while making a disturbing sound reminiscent of the animal being eaten. It will not do so again before first appearing onscreen again. (In case it wasn't clear, the idea is that it pretends to be cute and harmless towards you, yet is actually a terrifying monster.) This allows it to be used to get rid of animals in locations that would otherwise be difficult, if not impossible to reach. But it can also serve as an obstacle that you have to keep an eye on so it doesn't kill animals you need.

Mirror:

Is shaped like this:

x
x x
x x x
x x x x
x x x x x

When a laser hits its diagonal edge, it will be reflected in a 90 degree angle. Its other two edges are non-reflective and vulnerable to lasers. Using it flips it horizontally.

Thief animal type 1:

Walks straight ahead along the ground and changes direction when something blocks its path. When a block appears in front of this type, it will shoot straight towards it, ignoring gravity in the process. It will then pick the block up. Here's how the process works:

F=Floor

T=Thief

B=Block

A= Air

Step 1:

A A A A A A A
T A A A A A B
F F F A A F F

Step 2:

A A A A A A A
A A A A A T B
F F F A A F F

Step 3:

A A A A A A B
A A A A A T A
F F F A A F F

Step 4:

A A A A A B A
A A A A A T A
F F F A A F F

It will then continue walking while carrying the block for a few seconds, then use it once before dropping it below itself. When used, it will shoot straight ahead (potentially carrying you with itself). If it collides with a block, it will pick it up, then use it after a few seconds as usual. When dropping the block, it will free itself from your grip and put the block into your hands instead. On the other hand, if you put the thief in your inventory while it's carrying a block, the block in question will not travel to the inventory with it. This allows it you to release blocks from its grip before it uses them. It refuses to pick up blocks with a price tag, and won't shoot towards them unless used.

Thief animal type 2:

When you bring a block out of your inventory while it's onscreen, it will get the block instead, carry it for a few seconds, then use and drop it. If multiple type 2 thieves are onscreen simultaneously, they will all get an instance of the block, thus cloning it. Aside from that, it behaves mostly like a type one thief. The only exception is that it refuses to pick up blocks lying around, and won't shoot towards them unless used.

Thief animal type 3:

Also behaves mostly like a type 1 thief. While it's onscreen, it has access to your money. If it spots a block with a price it can afford, it will shoot towards it and pick it up, spending your money in the process. It will then use and drop the block as usual. It refuses to pick up blocks that are free or too expensive, and won't shoot towards them unless used.

Nuke:

Works similarly to its FiNCK equivalent in that it destroys everything in the current room when used. As such, you should handle it with particular care if you bring it into the save room. Like other bombs, it can also be given a timer, which starts ticking upon usage and can be frozen by putting it into your inventory.

Holy block:

Removes the current room's curse when used and destroys itself in the process. This is undone upon your death.

Vacuum beetle:

When you spend too much time near it, it'll destroy itself and pull anything in a fairly large radius towards itself with great force. Aside from that, it's just like a regular beetle.

Magnet gun / alien:

Its bullets deal no damage, but pull any blocks they hit towards the direction they came from. Makes it somewhat of an antithesis to the weak gun.

Spider:

Its legs can point in one of four directions. They will stick to solid things and allow it to walk along them. When encountering an unmovable obstacle in its path, its legs will change direction to cling onto it. Using it changes its legs' direction as well. While its legs are clinging onto something, it completely ignores any pressure exerted on it. As such, it can easily push blocks lying in its way. It can even carry you while climbing walls or the ceiling if you're holding onto it. It's considered unclean, so if it comes in contact with an altar, said altar will be defiled and can no longer be used for sacrifices. This could allow for puzzles where you have to either prevent a spider from reaching the altar, or blast through the skull blocks with heavy weaponry.

Clock:

Using it toggles its aura on and off. Anything within its aura has its speed altered until leaving it. This includes yourself. How much they speed things up or slow them down can be freely adjusted in the editor. The speed at which a clock's hands move shows how it will alter time.

Time gun:

Adjusts the speed of anything it hits, including yourself. This speed alteration effect doesn't wear off by itself and can't be removed by hitting said thing again. However, it will disappear if the thing in question is moved to a different room. It can also be overridden with a different speed alteration effect when hit by a different time gun or entering a clock's aura, though this is only temporary in the latter case. It has a small clock attached to it whose hands indicate how it will alter time.

Human ice box:

Can slide like a regular ice box, but can't absorb blocks. If you stand on its lid for a few seconds, you'll be sucked into it. Anything you're carrying is left outside. In this state, you can't carry blocks or enter doors. You can however make the box slide to the left or right, or make it jump. Bringing blocks out of the inventory will place them on top of the box. Also, since the box is just as small as a regular block, it'll allow you to fit go through small crevices. If the box is destroyed, then so are you. Attempting to teleport the box will destroy it. Short of dying, the only way to escape the box is to find a way to use it. It can also absorb NPCs, though only one person at a time.

Golden heart:

When used, heals you and gives your health bar an extra heart, allowing you to take two additional hits. You can increase your health even further by using multiple golden hearts. However, the effect disappears upon leaving the room. NPCs and thieves can also use it to boost their own health. Since thieves, like all animals, start off with only one HP, a golden heart boosts their health to three, not four.

Heal gun / alien:

Heals you, NPCs or thieves that have boosted their health. However, whereas hearts (both pink and golden) fully restore their HP, the heal gun / alien only heals them by one HP per shot.



The following things aren't technically blocks for the most part, but other gameplay elements I came up with.



Heal laser:

Fully heals you, NPCs or thieves that have boosted their health.

Time laser:

Basically like the time gun and alien, only as a laser.

Strong curse:

Is indicated by skulls with glowing eyes. Completely denies you all access to your inventory. Using a holy block in such a room merely downgrades it to a regular curse.

No inventory door:

Can only be opened while you have no blocks in your inventory.

"$ALL" price tag:

Requires you to spend the exact amount of coins you currently have to pick up the block it's attached to. In combination with type 3 thieves, it can be used to forcefully empty your wallet.

Lock:

Can be applied to any block, and will prevent it from being used. By pressing a certain button, all blocks in the current room (including those in the inventory) will be unlocked. Furthermore, blocks are automatically used during the unlocking process (unless they're in the inventory).

Tether:

An immaterial connection between a block and either another block or a tile. Its maximum length is freely adjustable in the editor. Once the distance between its two ends exceeds said length, it permanently disappears. This also happens if a block it's connected to is destroyed. Furthermore, there are buttons that can sever tethers as well. Tethered blocks can't be put into the inventory, absorbed by a box, be teleported or leave the current room. When a tether is severed, any locked blocks connected to it are unlocked.

Rubber tether:

Works like a regular tether, except when its maximum length is exceeded. Doing so doesn't sever the tether, but instead causes it to pull any blocks connected to it towards its other end. The pressure increases at greater distances, making it comparable to a bungee cord. It can only be severed by either destroying one of its blocks or pushing a corresponding button.

Lock gun / alien / laser:

Applies locks to any blocks it hits. When it hits you, all blocks in your inventory are locked. Has no effect on blocks that are already locked.

Tether gun / alien / laser:

After hitting two things, they will be tethered together. The type and length of the tethers it creates can be adjusted in the editor. If a tether is attached to it, it will be reapplied to whatever the tether gun / alien / laser hits next. Can also apply tethers to humans and tiles, not just blocks.

Usage limit:

Can be applied to any block. Decreases by 1 every time its block is used. Once it hits zero, the block is destroyed.

Glass:

Another property any blocks can have. Causes them to be destroyed when colliding with too much force, similar to the Glass Ball in WaDF.

Glass gun / alien / laser:

Turns any blocks it hits into glass. When hitting you, it affects all blocks in your inventory.

Heavy block:

Like its FiNCK equivalent, it can't be thrown very high and reduces your speed and jumping height when carried. However, it also greatly accelerates when falling. Once it has reached its maximum speed, it will inflict the same kind of damage bombs and the red gun and alien deal on anything it falls on. This means it will destroy fragile blocks and bricks, and use sturdier blocks.

Generator:

Creates a certain block. Once said block is destroyed, removed from the room or put in the inventory, it'll create another block just like it.

Sound sensitivity:

When this property is applied to an inactive laser, it will be active as long as certain BGM sounds are playing. It's the opposite for an active laser. Sound sensitive generators don't work normally and instead spit out a new block every time the sounds play. Blocks with this property can't be used through normal means and will instead use themselves whenever the sounds play.



Finally, I'd suggest a handful of changes to existing parts of the game.



Two textual changes regarding beetles:

IMO, the game doesn't do a very good job explaining that as long as you're fast enough, you can prevent beetles from transforming by picking them up and using them. I've already seen two YouTubers who didn't know about this until I told them. I think this is because the book about beetles only mentions the possibility of using them from afar, and because when carrying them, the game tells you using them would transform them, which is exactly what using them prevents from happening. I'd suggest rewriting the book and changing their use term to "Disarm".

Using books from afar:

Right now, books do nothing when hit by a use gun or laser. Not only is this illogical, but allowing them to be read from afar could allow for clever puzzles where you have to find a way to use an unreachable book in order to get a message telling you how to progress.

Voice clips for animals other than cubes:

I really liked how cubes make all sorts of weird noises, so I found it a bit underwhelming that the other animals don't do anything like this. Especially since cubes aren't all that prominent in the later parts of the game.

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Offline LPChip

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Re: If you were to come up with a block?
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2017, 09:44:19 »
I think allowing the nuke to go into the save room is a bad idea. If you accidentally trip it, it basically means game over. That is not in-line with the game's philosophy.
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Offline kilicool64

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Re: If you were to come up with a block?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2017, 14:43:16 »
What do you mean? The nuke would only destroy everything currently present there. I never said the explosion lasted forever.

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Offline LPChip

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Re: If you were to come up with a block?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2017, 14:45:23 »
The saveroom saves every change, so when you destroy things in the saveroom, its permanent. Thats why its called a saveroom. Not saferoom.
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Offline kilicool64

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Re: If you were to come up with a block?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2017, 19:31:54 »
I'm aware of that, but I wouldn't call the loss of everything there basically a game over situation. It can definitely set you back, but at least in the vanilla version of Uurnog, none of the items that would make sense to keep are hugely difficult to obtain once you know where to look.

Plus, even if you accidentally teleported a ticking nuke, there'd still be ways to prevent it from detonating. If there was enough time left on its timer, you could head to the save room and quickly freeze it by putting it into your inventory. And even if there wasn't, you could still get it out of there with a teleport box.

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Offline canteven

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Re: If you were to come up with a block?
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2017, 03:12:15 »
Bottomless box:
This never runs out of what it has, but it can't have more than 3 of its stored objects out at once. Cycles through objects inside of it like 1>2>3>4>1>2...

Solid laser:
A laser that does not allow anything to pass through, but doesn't kill either. Basically like a toggleable block. If an object is in the way when it starts up, the laser will be cut short until that object is out of the way.

Refractor:
Like a reflector cube in Portal 2, you can feed a laser into this and it will come out wherever the cube is facing. Has two "input" sides, one "output" side, and a "blind" side that reacts normally to lasers. Press X to rotate it clockwise.
If the input lasers match, the same laser will be outputted. If the inputs do not match, whichever laser came first will be output. If the two lasers were appeared at the exact same time, nothing will come out until one of the lasers disappears.

The refractor works the same with guns. Feed a bullet into an input side, it will come out from the output side. The bullet lifetime will be reset after entering the refractor.

One-way platform:
This isn't a block so much as a stage element. You can easily pass through one side, but you're blocked from the other side. Bullets and lasers would not be affected by this.

Checkpoint:
A white block with the same properties as an empty box, except that you can press X while holding it to make a checkpoint at your current location. If you hit a checkpoint and die, you'll be asked if you want to return to the last checkpoint you activated or if you want to forget the checkpoint and go back to the save room. If you haven't seen the save room yet, you'll be asked if you want to go back to the initial starting point.

Jumper:
A FiNCK jumper. Unlike birds, you cannot fly or glide with it, and it falls at a normal speed. Press X to change its jump pattern from "straight up" to "left and right".

More ice boxes:
For red boxes, yellow boxes, warp boxes, etc. This would just be another checkmark in the editor making them icy.

Weak bomb:
A variation of the instant, countdown, and remote bombs that pushes things away rather than exploding them.

Alias block:
Inspired by how Mario 64 handles object holding. Same properties as an empty box, but you can press X to create a hologram of it where it's currenly being held. Once you release it, either by throwing it or dropping it, it will appear where you last set the hologram.

Unbinding pad:
Not an object so much as a fixture on the floor. Stepping on it will remove objects from your inventory based on what letters are written on it. A D-pad would remove the object from the right slot of your inventory, WD-pad would remove objects from the right and top slots of your inventory, WASD-pad would completely clear inventory, etc.

2-block high locked door:
You'd only be able to unlock this by using the key while it's on the ground. (Or by exiting out of it while it's still locked)

Sensitive bomb:
Once it enters midair and hits a wall, floor, or ceiling; it explodes. Dropping it while standing on the ground does not explode it.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 03:33:40 by canteven »
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Offline Nifflas

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Re: If you were to come up with a block?
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2017, 17:39:12 »
Wow, there are some pretty solid ideas here! I really like the holy block idea! I'll also consider if I can improve the beetle problem.

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Offline JTE

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Re: If you were to come up with a block?
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2017, 14:54:19 »
Water. :3 As a variety of solid-colored translucent foreground turf tiles with a surface animated similar to grass.

Let's say your character automatically drops (straight down, below the feet) whatever they're holding, rises and swims along the surface, normally.

But if they're holding a "heavy" variant of any block or object, they'll sink and be able to slowly walk and jump along the bottom like normal. A basic iron block will drag you to the bottom and allow you to traverse it, although you'll have to abandon the block at the bottom to rise over walls that are taller than your underwater jump height (which may be one or two blocks higher than your normal jump height?)

Maybe some form of heavy gun alien can be used both as an obstacle below the surface and as a weapon for use against others of its kind.

Maybe wood blocks can be added to explicitly float on the surface (with physics pushes automatically keeping it rotated so it eventually settles as if the water is a flat surface) so you can platform across it, as you normally cannot jump more than half a block out of water to a connecting land tile. Wood blocks would also automatically be dropped in water, so they cannot easily be retrieved once floating, as picking them up would simply dunk the player and likely knock the block off to the side or similar.

Wood blocks could also be reusable as the weakest form of destructible obstacle similar to the brick walls, shattered by even the physics push gun. They could be used like an item crate similar to the basic block, in that players cannot insert items into it but they can exist with items in the map, and instead of retrieving the contents one at a time by using it, you could destruct the block to make all of its contents spawn around and on top of where it existed at nearly the same time, assuming there's space. If there isn't adequate space and the wood box has more than 1 item left in it (so that it can't simply replace itself with the item), it would have to persist invulnerable to destruction until it is able to empty its contents, I'm afraid. But I expect that generally wood blocks would only have one item in them, if anything. Maybe wood blocks shouldn't have a visible count of how many items they contain, so that if you destroy it instead of picking it up and using it, you'll have no idea how many things will pop out, and more commonly it will only be one object so that when two or three come out it's an interesting surprise.

Later on, instead of simply abandoning a block in order to rise, the player can be required to rise and fall several times without leaving the water, using their inventory to manage it. To prevent the player from getting stuck, the surface of the water in the middle of the section can be used as an exit, to allow the player to leave or try again.

What to do if the player gets trapped under an underwater ceiling while being forced to rise, though? Raise the player's hands over their head like they're holding a block, when that block is in fact the ceiling, and allow them to walk on their hands and "jump" downwards. Now taking a dive into water can also be used for slow motion reverse-gravity puzzles!

Drowning? What is air. I don't much care for it, but I guess if you really want to include some kind of air meter for water puzzles, perhaps to act as a (very) lenient time limit for crossing through sections or to absolutely make sure the player cannot get stuck on the ceiling somewhere, you could also add a bubble block which can be eaten like a heart block to refill your air meter.

The bubble block instantly pops if it's retrieved from your inventory outside of water, and aside from being explicitly placeable as a single block it can spawn perpetually from a point below the water in map-specified locations and rises to the ceiling, where it will stay until it collides with another bubble block (eg. if the next bubble comes up from a spawner on the floor and the last one is still sitting on the ceiling, they bump each-other and one or both will disappear), or if it hits the water surface. The idea being that they rise in water and cannot exist outside of water, but will continuously exist at key locations to help the player out, if ever the water section is too long.

Bubble blocks would also be another of the few block varieties that aren't immediately dropped when held underwater, but it would not prevent the player from rising. If retrieved from inventory on a ceiling it should push the player down under itself and render them immobile (unable to walk along the ceiling due to the bubble block being held) until it is either dropped, put away again, or used. If dropped, the player can then use the bubble itself as a platform for further upside down jumping mechanics.

On a related note, normally attempting to retrieve items from inventory when there isn't enough space doesn't work, those checks would have to be remade to always check the player's feet if they're underwater to see if they can be pushed down, instead. (Not just as a special exception for bubble blocks.) That way, while you're moving along the ceiling, you could theoretically retrieve any items from your inventory that you normally can't use underwater, with the intention of immediately dropping them from wherever you happen to be floating at the moment. The player would be moved down when the inventory is retrieved, then the item itself would say "I'm incompatible with water, drop me" and force the player to immediately be moved back up to drop them below their feet. The block or creature would then sink to the bottom slowly as you'd expect, then resume its normal behavior, eg. an alien would begin pacing left and right and firing.

Naturally, using items in this way is akin to taking them out in a cursed zone, since they become essentially irretrievable after use under water. The only way I can imagine to get around this, is to have a rarer item later in the game which explicitly will continue to affect the player's gravity and make them sink while it's held in inventory (unless it's in a box, for some reason, because that's how physics work)

You could make an entire game from just water mechanics like this, probably. Sorry for having such a ridiculous and expansive suggestion.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 15:22:15 by JTE »