[Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define

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Offline GrayFace

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Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2013, 00:58:45 »
No, I meant the issue with resources leaking that leads to eventual bugs. I did the conversion to fix that one. [One interesting observation from trying to apply that conversion to Caged In: custom objects are significantly faster than normal/template objects]
Most of loading time is due to Map.bin loading I suppose. Instead of deleting entries from World.ini you can move all custom objects png's except 31Finale.png somewhere. That would speed things up a little bit, I think it reduces the time it takes to enter a cutscene noticeably.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 01:05:47 by GrayFace »

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Offline egomassive

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Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2013, 03:17:28 »
Yeah, I'm surprised. Now that I've messed with it I see the long load time has little to do with the COs. It's actually the World.ini. It's nearly a full megabyte and regardless of how many COs are in use, the engine will do 255 searches through it for CO entries at load time. There's nothing we can do about that. If I could still mod KS I might give designers the option to put CO entries in a separate ini file, then it wouldn't have to search through all the data at load time.

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Offline GrayFace

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Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2013, 04:01:11 »
Uh, indeed. Ini++ loading the file takes all that time, not COs. I'm sure a proper hashed ini implementation could handle it fine, but turning it into an extension to replace Ini++ would be a pain.

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Offline KG

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Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2013, 08:01:39 »
Uh, wow, haha, GrayFace and egomassive I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I did sort of glean that you, GrayFace, found out how to fix the weird custom object bugs in a Knytt Stories mod, and also that you two determined that the long cutscene loading time is just me making the thing too big.
Anyway, I think it's cool of you to look into it like that.

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Offline egomassive

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Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
« Reply #49 on: October 18, 2013, 01:22:35 »
Some people enjoy playing levels. Some people enjoy making them. And, some people like to tear them apart and see what makes them tick. We're just having our own kind of fun with Define.

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Offline GrayFace

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Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
« Reply #50 on: November 07, 2013, 03:02:22 »
Wow, I've finished it!
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
One thing that it lacks compared to Too Much Soda is clarity. Now I understand what all blocks do, but it's still impossible to remember them all to recall on sight. Along the way they weren't all clear and too often I had to act randomly, rather then solving things by thinking. At times it seemed inconsistent too.

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Offline KG

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Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
« Reply #51 on: November 08, 2013, 19:52:21 »
Wow, I've finished it!
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
One thing that it lacks compared to Too Much Soda is clarity. Now I understand what all blocks do, but it's still impossible to remember them all to recall on sight. Along the way they weren't all clear and too often I had to act randomly, rather then solving things by thinking. At times it seemed inconsistent too.
Oh, yes. No. Most of them are based loosely on people I know, and that happened to coincide with a few here.
It is a lot more confusing than Too Much Soda's minigame, and it does get pretty tough, but I think I was pretty good at consistency! I had a strict rules document open whenever I worked on it.

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Offline GrayFace

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Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
« Reply #52 on: November 08, 2013, 21:06:07 »
It is a lot more confusing than Too Much Soda's minigame, and it does get pretty tough, but I think I was pretty good at consistency! I had a strict rules document open whenever I worked on it.
Yes, just these blocks that use properties of the underlying block might have caused that feeling if I didn't understand them at the time. I've made a note (a screenshot actually) of one place where black blocks usually killed player, but didn't do so in some case. I'll recheck it.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 22:20:19 by GrayFace »

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Offline KG

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Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
« Reply #53 on: December 26, 2013, 20:38:43 »
For an after-Christmas gift or sommat I don't know.
Spoiler: Cheat (click to show/hide)

Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2019, 22:51:22 »
I'm sorry to dredge this topic up after so long, and I have nothing significant to add.  I'm trying to play this again after some years and I'm predictably in awe of the programming effort and complexity, puzzle designs and sheer length of this level. I also just enjoy playing it (for stretches of time).
Perhaps there's people in the current community who haven't played this level yet...

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Offline KG

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Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2019, 21:10:43 »
I'm sorry to dredge this topic up after so long, and I have nothing significant to add.  I'm trying to play this again after some years and I'm predictably in awe of the programming effort and complexity, puzzle designs and sheer length of this level. I also just enjoy playing it (for stretches of time).
Perhaps there's people in the current community who haven't played this level yet...

Thank you helvetzia. I saw this a few days ago and it inspired me to replay Define and it occurred to me that... it's kinda hard? Haha.
I decided to make some very minor adjustments, and now here is a version that is slightly less difficult in like... six or seven spots, but more notably it's easier to see which blocks are deadly because their letters are tinted red.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/upyo8k0wcouh35l/KG_-_Define_-_Easy.knytt.bin/file
« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 20:30:17 by KG »

Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
« Reply #56 on: July 05, 2019, 00:19:04 »
I'm happy that seeing my comment reminded you to take a look at that wonderful game again.
It's funny that you were surprised at the difficulty of Define and even worked to make a version that's easier to deal with. Meanwhile, you have other levels with insanely hard screens and boss battles. I assume that those speed and precision challenges are more aligned with the purpose of those levels and can be really satisfying for players that are able to beat them.
Judging by your description, the changes you made will make it more enjoyable for many players. Especially those new to KS or puzzle platformers in general.
I did finally play though Define completely. I got one excellent ending.  It was so satisfying all the way through. I would play in chunks of time and take breaks. It was exhausting to play. Partly because it is so long. Partly because the mental challenge of remembering block definitions and visualizing the progression of different permutations of Juni's chain of actions taxes my little brain in ways it's not generally accustomed to. That's also why I loved it, of course. And I always looked forward to getting back into it after my gray matter had cooled down somewhat. I appreciated that the difficulty of the vast majority of the challenges in Define had very little to do with lightning quick reflexes or super-precise movements.

Recently, KS streamers DonDoli and UnPigeonVoyageur have done playthroughs of Define. Here are the first parts of each:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iuOfMRnX5w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ8ycGfltHU