[Challenge/Not a Trickjump][Short][Very Hard] Lazorz

Hello, fellow denizens of Niffland! I return from--wait a second, I don't know half of you new guys!

Anyway, yes, I'm back after being away for a loooong time.  New community here, new levels I need to play, and new games Nifflas has released.

Marking my first time back from my hiatus is an old, old level I managed to dig up from KnyttLevels, polish a bit, edit around, and finish it up. It's just a few screens long, but you'll be spending a few minute on each screen. No story, no fancy-shamcy new music, no custom objects, just a good ol' trickjump level. Who even needs custom objects? Back in my day, we didn't HAVE no fancy custom objects! If you wanted somethin' to move, you'd have to make it move with shifts! If that wasn't good enough, then TOUGH GRAVY, you'd have to do without!

...Uh, where was I?

Oh yeah.

Lazors.

And nope, it's not a trickjump. At all.

Link:

This is my kind of challenge: no annoying unpredictable enemies, just pure jump challenges! I enjoyed it, although you made a mistake I have made in the past: the invisible deadly blocks are larger than the spikes themselves, and even if that is only by one pixel, it makes a huge difference in a level like this. The actual width and height of the spike picture may be exactly the same as the deadly part, but just the fact that the edges are slanted gives the player the idea that they can jump through the corner of that rectangle, which ends in disappointment.
Other than that, great simple level that I enjoyed going through.

I died when I saw the link,haha!
Very nice level, I would love to see more of this.
I have the same problem as Raicuparta.I think that egomassive used the trap spikes in The Dying Core,but made them visible by placing darker versions of them in lower layers. I will post a screenshot showcasing it.

This is my kind of challenge: no annoying unpredictable enemies, just pure jump challenges! I enjoyed it, although you made a mistake I have made in the past: the invisible deadly blocks are larger than the spikes themselves, and even if that is only by one pixel, it makes a huge difference in a level like this. The actual width and height of the spike picture may be exactly the same as the deadly part, but just the fact that the edges are slanted gives the player the idea that they can jump through the corner of that rectangle, which ends in disappointment.
Other than that, great simple level that I enjoyed going through.

Yay, Rai's still here!
Anyway, uhm...how should I go about fixing that? >.< There's not much I can do, apart from making really weird looking spikes.

(And I completely agree about the "annoying unpredictable enemies". >.> I played a level recently that would've easily been a favorite of mine, if their definition of "harder difficulty" wasn't "spam moar enemies everywhur". *cough*)

Not quite sure what you mean, MasterF. o 3o

You probably know that there's an object in KS that makes deadly spikes emerge when Juni is near them. In MasterF's screenshot, you can see that even when the spikes aren't activated, they are still visible, but slightly darker. This is because egomassive placed a darker, static version of the spikes in a background layer of that screen. This way, the spikes are always visible, making the challenge essentially the same, but the collision mask is that of the actual spikes, and not the usual rectangle from the invisible object. But this could make the challenge easier than intended, so you may end up having to redesign things a bit.

Another way to signal the existence of hidden spikes could be on the floor tiles, I've seen some people do it before and it works nicely.

You probably know that there's an object in KS that makes deadly spikes emerge when Juni is near them. In MasterF's screenshot, you can see that even when the spikes aren't activated, they are still visible, but slightly darker. This is because egomassive placed a darker, static version of the spikes in a background layer of that screen. This way, the spikes are always visible, making the challenge essentially the same, but the collision mask is that of the actual spikes, and not the usual rectangle from the invisible object. But this could make the challenge easier than intended, so you may end up having to redesign things a bit.

Another way to signal the existence of hidden spikes could be on the floor tiles, I've seen some people do it before and it works nicely.

Oh. Ech. I could make custom objects for the spikes to put over the actual spikes, but yeah, I don't think it's that big of a deal. And I really don't feel like redesigning the level. :v

I enjoyed it. Nice little challenge! I was warned of the spikes so they didn't bother me... in addition, plenty of KS use implementations like that.

My favorite challenge was screen 2 where you had to reverse direction mid-laser while trying to beat the clock.

Too frustrating for me. Gave up on the third screen. I felt that a little more thought could have gone into the tileset (to show emitters on all blocks, solid or not, that give out lasers - especially as I died for or five times in the first screen before figuring out what was what) and it'd be great with a long, looping music track (maybe some serene piano music or something?).

Still, it was pretty good for what it is. Just not my thing.

Too frustrating for me. Gave up on the third screen. I felt that a little more thought could have gone into the tileset (to show emitters on all blocks, solid or not, that give out lasers - especially as I died for or five times in the first screen before figuring out what was what) and it'd be great with a long, looping music track (maybe some serene piano music or something?).

Still, it was pretty good for what it is. Just not my thing.

Yay! Talps is still here, too!

And thanks for that idea. I might add a music track in the future.

By the description of Talps, this is not a trickjump level at all. Trickjump levels are primarily focussed on jumping, not any challenge, such as monsters, lasers and even figuring out where that hidden jump is.

Plain Challenge if you ask me.

A trickjump level is one, like environmental, that is a category on its own that has no other category with the level, so the fact that this also has challenge already proves that its wrong. A trickjump level solely focusses on making jumps from start to end, and do it in the fastest time possible. Every jump is pure skill, no luck or timing involved. The difficulty can be increased by having really tiny surfaces to jump on and alter the spaces between each jump so the player constantly has to focus on the right jump.

Also, missing should not be punished with death if possible, but rather a setback in the level (falling to an earlier part in the level), but it is not a requirement.

See also: http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=1096.0

words

I have to disagree. That link there says trickjump levels can, indeed, be challenge/trickjump, just no other combinations.

And it mentions trickjump levels as "a challenge to test your jump skills. This means that a trickjump map cannot contain enemies, nor keys, nor other puzzle elements and especially, no secret passages to skip one or more jumps. Pure jumping." This fits the criteria.

It does mention that powerups can be added, as long as it doesn't add a puzzle element, which it doesn't. It's clear you just grab it and continue.

Also, having a trickjump that is about finding where to jump is, according to that page, not a trickjump, since it adds a puzzle element. This level is completely linear.

And I could just have a ditch that requires the player to walk backward all the way back to a given area, but a save spot gets the same job done, it's just automated. That link doesn't say to not use save points, it just says that's how trickjumps usually are.

It also mentions timing as an idea for a map, not a mandatory criteria for all trickjumps. It's just a small afterword about asking Nifflas to add a clock item.

Anyway, I've given that link a thorough read, and I must respectfully disagree. Try the level out yourself, if you want.

that give out lasers

This is the part that I'm talking about.

Rules/Guidelines for Trickjumps
...
Simply put, make sure that at any given time its easy to see where to go, and don't add unpredictable elements or elements that will slow you down too much (lasers).
...

EDIT: Okay, downloaded and played for about 1 minute, this is DEFINITELY NOT a trickjump level. in a trickjump level you should be able to stay on the same spot for eternity and prepare for the jump to eventually do it as fast as possible. I was unable to even make the first jump and just gave up.

moar words

Lasers aren't unpredictable. In fact, they're the least random of the deadly objects in the game, aside from the invisible death blocks.

The lasers are there to, again, test your jump. Open it up in the level editor. First screen, there's two always-on lasers side by side near the top of the screen. The player has to jump between them without getting fried, which takes some maneuvering, in addition to a laser that fires every so often going across those two, which means you have to have decent timing, as well.

And, yes, you can stay in the same spot for an eternity to prepare for a jump. The jump doesn't start right at that gap. It starts on the tile right before the laser. Stand there, get into The Thinker's pose, and once you're ready, rush through the gap and jump. That first block? Stand there, too, wait, then hop across once, twice, and stand there again.

But I think the most important thing is...does it matter? The most important thing is it's mostly like a trickjump. It may not fall under your category of what a trickjump is, but it has so far for everyone else that's posted here, myself included. If I make a level that's easy to navigate, but is clearly meant to be maze-like, one could argue it's not a maze since it's easy to navigate around, but, really, it's just semantics.

EDIT: Oh, you already changed it. Well, guess there's no arguing with the judge/jury/executioner.

Nice one! It ended too soon.

I really liked this level. It was a perfect combination of relatively easy, pattern-based challenges and had no really irritating jumps. I applaud!

If you add music, might I suggest "Spiegel im spiegel"? It's exactly right for the level (if a little long).