My ideas for a way to create Knytt 4

This is directly to Nifflas. Nif, I gotta say, Underground was a BIG disappointment to a few people. It just didn't have that old charm of Knytt and KS. So here are my ideas of how to possibly make Knytt 4 a lot better. Also, in NO WAY am I saying complete Experiment. These are just ideas I have that you could use in Knytt 4
1. keep old pixel design: this is pretty big, in Knytt and Knytt Stories, the pixel design made it feel so simple yet so good. It really helped you get into the environment. In Underground, the huge stylized graphics made it seem too... well Overblown in my opinion.
2.Keep story simple: Another big one here. Nifflas, I see what your trying to do. Your trying to tell a complex story. But it just doesn't work for this kind of game. In the originals. The Simple story didn't make you have all this information going around your head. It made you calming and made you feel more relatable to Knytt and Juni
3.Level system: This one isn't a complaint, more of a complex idea. My idea of how to make levels in Knytt 4 is to have a starting level when you first get the game. Then every now and then, you could hold a contest to see who's best level could be in the game. Then you would leave a download link to an editor for people to create levels. Then once the contest is done, you could look at all the submitted levels and decide on which one will be added to an update. When it's all done you could wait till a next contest rolls in.
So those are my ideas of how to make a next Knytt installment work. I hope you enjoyed this Nifflas and all see you all later

First of all, its not wise to speak on behalf of many people. You say "to many people" but according to the statistics it says the other way around. There are always a few people who don't like changes and have high expectations. According to feedback from many, many people and reviews I've read, most people actually love Knytt Underground, and call it Nifflas' best game even.

I'll reply to your 3 suggestions and give some info. This however is my view on things and does not reflect the opinion of anyone else, even though others probably share my opinion.

1. This is really debatable. I like the old feeling, but at the same time, I also love the appeal the new look gives. Nifflas just made a turn and likes this better. He was done with the old ways I guess. Maybe at a later stage he'll merge the two somehow, but I honestly love this more than the old pixellated view. The pixellated view looks a bit outdated to me to be honest. Sure its easy to make tilesets that way, but this new look has something on its own too. Instead of focussing on all the walls you cannot reach, the focus is brought to those areas you actually can reach, and gives a more "inside" feel.

2. You're wrong here. All Nifflas' games have a big story. The only difference is that KU is the first game that uses a different approach to tell the story. Yes, even games such as Knytt and WaDF have a story to tell. They are all linked together. The difference is that those games focus more on the gameplay than telling the story. Nifflas wanted to go a new path by actually incorporating story telling, and I have to admit, he did a wonderful job. Sure, a lot of information to grasp. I have to agree here, but that just only makes it so much more fun to replay the game a few times. Each time you get new pieces of the story you missed last time. Its like seeing one of those complex movies for the 2nd time and discovering new things you didn't know.

3. This will most likely not happen simply because it requires a tremendous effort to keep such system up and running. Nifflas experimented with this in the form of Knytt Experiment, and he learned that, not only does it takes a lot of time to do quality control, it also seems that with so many different people, the quality and context of the levels are so diverse that it just doesn't fit together as a whole. If you then decide to only allow the best levels, you'll step on way too many toes to go into the trouble at the first place.

with #3, your response had one flaw, if the worst levels are the easiest, then maybe have difficulty levels

with #3, your response had one flaw, if the worst levels are the easiest, then maybe have difficulty levels

No the worst levels are those that lack any graphical appeal or simply contain bugs. Like falling though a floor that is not supposed to be, or make a jump where the author thinks its impossible which leads to void screens, or even where the author just made one long horizontal level just to be in the game (yes I've seen that one too)

EDIT: I forgot to mention, that if custom music/sound is a factor, it can be also that one screen/level has soft ambient music where the next has loud music and a third has no additional sound at all.

KnyttInGod, I don't seem to agree with anything so far that you claim to be popular opinion. I can only suggest that when you post, you ensure that you post in a way that confirms that perhaps only you feel this way. It's usually a better bet. So take this with a grain of salt, but..

I appreciate you taking the time to say what you didn't like about KU, but.. I think the attempt at explaining it turned into more of a complaint than anything helpful for Nifflas. He doesn't/shouldn't need to be told how to make his next games. I realize it's tempting to try to inform him of errors you personally find, but make sure you do just that- inform. The other thing to remember is exactly what I said- make sure you do it in a way that insist it's your opinion. He's more likely to listen (even in a small way) if you're giving advice, not actually discrediting his previous job(s) at it. People really don't enjoy being told that all the work they spent is disliked, and much less so if you're telling them how to do it 'better' by your own personal opinion.

As for the graphics, it's a different style. It's fine for you to think the old style was superior, but it's important to realize that Nifflas was trying new things with this game. So the graphics a different than they used to be. It fits the game, in my opinion, and it's really tough to say that they aren't just as good as the old graphics, as far as quality goes.

Story is more or less the same thing. And as LPChip said, the story was always there, it just wasn't upfront about it. It's a different style game, and a different way of telling a story. If you aren't fond a deep story (that's 'hard' to follow), perhaps KU isn't for you.

As for your third point, there's not much to say there. Nifflas might release an editor- I don't know. As for quality, that's the tough part (and I'm not sure what you meant about difficulty meaning quality, since if you've played KS, you know it's untrue). Nifflas likes to make sure that things of quality are made for his games. How he does it is up to him..and even -if- he does it, is up to him. Your suggestion might give him ideas, but I don't expect him to follow it- neither should you, really.

Anyway, I'm sorry for seeming harsh at all, it's just that your posts seem somewhat expectant that Nifflas should accept your post at face-value, but the truth is that it's your opinion, and yours alone, mostly.

EDIT: As an added note, I should reiterate that there's nothing confirming a Knytt "4" yet, and there's no reason to really suggest things about something we can't be sure will even exist yet. (By the way, Knytt, Knytt Stories, Saria, Knytt Underground, The Great Work, (and some relation to the WADF games, too)...makes it more than 3 Knytt games therefore; not Knytt "4")

for all complainers read this:http://pixelsordeath.com/the-long/the-sad-story-of-knytt-underground

I really hate to say it, but you're the one complaining about the game...not us. So saying something like 'for all the complainers'...sort of makes it a bit backwards to me.

And as for the link itself- it doesn't change my opinion anymore than my words change yours. I'm just stating in my post that if you're going to complain, try to realize that not everything thinks that way.

you know what this is done im just not a fan of underground ok, well im just done with this topic, what started off as just me giving ideas is now an argument over KU

I try to create all my games as if it is my only. Today I sometimes regret creating Knytt, and Knytt Stories, because the game achieved a popularity that I haven't been able to reproduce. Instead of being happy about everybody who enjoys Underground (and there are plenty of people who really loved both the story and graphics), I often end up comparing what I do with the success of my previous games, and I just end up feeling like I have no relevance in the game industry today. Don't ask me why, but it's so much easier to focus on something negative than positive. Then I have to remind myself why I do this; to create the games I want to create and explore the atmosphere, graphical styles, gameplay mechanics, and stories I personally want to explore. People always compare my new titles with my old titles far more than I do myself.

Comments that tells me to stop exploring what I want, in place of creating whatever you think will be more successful and liked... It just pulls me away from game development and uninspires (is there such a word?) me to continue. It's simply not why I do this. One of the weirdest problems I'm facing is related to this; the kind of article you link to can get me down for a day, sometimes several days. I spent two and a half years on this game that I deeply care for and expresses something that's very personal to me, so the effect even reading a title named "the stad story of Knytt Underground", it's like a blow to my heart. The irony is of course that people who (not on purpose of course) hurt and may eventually make me stop developing games (even though I'll convert my game company into a beer brewery, so it's okay) consists almost entirely of people who liked my old ones. I haven't ruled out rebooting under a new name so that people won't know what I have created before.

In the beginning, I didn't care about these things. I had fun and created games. Before Knytt, there were no expectations and no reputation. I created stuff just for the heck of it, and some people liked it and I was happy about that. Others didn't care about me or anything I did. That's how I'd like things to be.

First off, I will say that I loved Knytt and Knytt Stories.  I absolutely love Knytt Underground though.  It's a game that focuses on exploration, it has a deep story and it's a game that you can play just for the fun of it.  You don't have to get the achievements but they are there if you want to get them.  I have gotten tired of the massive budget titles that have only shiny graphics to offer and no real depth to them.  I think that is why I have been more apt to spend time playing more indie titles like this because it has a lot more to say then the other crap.  It has a wide appeal to it and it has a decent challenge to it without being sadistic about it.  I had read that review and it just sounds like the person just has no sense as to what a good game is.  Nifflas, KU is a fantastic game and you are a wonderful developer.  What you did as far as getting me a download code so I can have the PC version now is something that I think is absolutely effing awesome.  I am absolutely geeked as a gamer to even have the opportunity to even interact with you at this level and I feel that is something that I personally will keep with me.  I will always be a fan of your games and I cannot wait to see what more you have to offer.  If you ever do open a brewery though, I'm telling you, where I live is prime real estate for that considering we just won the title of beer city usa.  That's a whole different story entirely though! 

Thank you for telling me that

Thing is, I've heard those negative opinion from more places. There are plenty of people who think the story kind of sucks and that the pixely style of my previous games were much better. On the other hand, there are DeceasedCrab's LP's which makes me super happy, and there are also lots of people who have really loved the story and the characters. I always strive to be at peace with that. Like, some like my games, others don't, the ratio is different for each game but that's okay. It's oddly harder than it sounds when negative comments affect me so much more than positive ones. At least I know many other creators has expressed the exact same problem - I've heard about creators of some games far more successful than mine who still get very affected by negative comments because they're so attached to their work. It's odd how the brain works

I definitely understand!  You do great work though so I certainly appreciate it.  I am also a fan of DeceasedCrab's work as well.  He makes me chuckle.  I've been watching his LP's long enough to have noticed a lot of inside jokes as well, including his hatred of whales and surprise fish.  He definitely makes me want to try the Katie's Foot though.  It sounds like a decent combination.  Oh, I did finally finish everything in the PS3 version, I just didn't get the yet but I will.  My main goal was just getting through the figure.  It was hard on the ps3!  Glad I made it though.

I haven't ruled out rebooting under a new name so that people won't know what I have created before.

That's pretty ingenious, but I hope you don't have to resort to that. It would probably mean you couldn't continue building on the Knytt universe... and I've derived a lot of pleasure from noticing the links between all your different games.

Try not to let that article get you down. To me it seemed... bitter, maybe? All the comments are people disagreeing, and you're never going to please someone who thinks controlling a bouncing ball is intrinsically bad.

Thank you

It is very good to know how you feel Nifflas.  After all, we live in a very consumer driven world and it is easy to assume that everyone is participating in that same mad rush towards the lowest common denominator.  I'm very proud of what you've done in your game development and love all your work.  Your doing something that I really do think resonates with people and I can't fully understand any criticism of KU unless it happens to be because someone simply has a fiendish addiction to Knytt Stories (as I do actually) and who is also just too fixated on getting more of that to truly appreciate KU.   I will admit to a fiendish addiction to Knytt Stories myself but that is basically because I lack all the programing skills (and time) it would take me to develop my own games.  You've actually inadvertently made it possible for me to fulfill one of my own dreams, so thank you!  As for KU, I don't really think about comparing it to previous games now but just see it as a unique and beautiful thing in and of itself.  So just keep doing your thing man.  That is what I do when I work on a KS level anyway.