Prelude [Environmental?]

Finally got around to seriously attempting a Knytt Stories level, after many false starts over the years.  I plan on building this little preview into two distinct levels, both of which I'm pretty excited about.

First, I want to use it in a string of self-contained environments, each concisely illlustrating a point about good level design before warping the player to the next.  This preview was originally conceived for that end, so it was self-contained enough that I felt comfortable sharing it on its own.

Additionally, though, I think that it works well enough as an introduction to use as the starting point of a more conventional - but still, I hope, creative - Machine-ish level.  Backtracking, pretty environments, you know the drill.  I already have a rather concrete idea of how the areas surrounding this section will be laid out in that context, and I think that it'll be the easier of the two approaches to pursue.

For the moment, I only have a standalone three-screen environment, but I know exactly where I want to take it, and I like it enough that I want to share it and get some feedback.  I don't see a reason to clutter the archive with a tiny preview like this, so here's a FileDen link.  And here's a panorama of the entire preview, but please don't look at it before playing, as it'll spoil it.  It's mainly there as a reference and for anybody who doesn't want to play.

A few things:

One of the things that I want to reflect in these levels is creative use of the Nifflas tilesets.  I tend to see them used to re-create Nifflas's environments, rather than to create new ones, and I want to show that they can be used in new and interesting ways.  Expect to see a lot of Nifflas's graphics in these levels (in fact, I plan on limiting myself to them exclusively), but don't expect them to look anything like The Machine or A Strange Dream.

The point about level design that this area (hopefully) shows is that it can be a good thing to make the player wait before they can run, provided that the time is used creatively and entertainingly.  Even in Nifflas's levels, it feels like a chore to trudge from the start point to the run ability, and that's a shame.  Here, I wanted to use that time's potential to the fullest.  (That said, it's important to keep this period from overstaying its welcome; there's a reason that I only used three screens.)  In the case of the first level concept that I mentioned, there will be signs explaining all of this, but I figured that they'd be redundant, distracting, and limiting outside that context, so they aren't in the preview.

Advice is welcome.  It would be especially helpful if I could have some guidance on improving the scenery (I'm pretty happy with how it turned out, but there are times when I think that it looks a little samey, and I'd like to know if that's just because I put it together or if it really is that way), and I'd love to hear any tips on sticking through a project like this to the end.  Also, is there any kind of standard for level tags in thread titles?  I'm pretty sure that I misused the "environmental" tag, but I don't really know what else I should have put up there.

If I've done something wrong here, tell me bluntly.  I want these levels to be as perfect as I can make them.

I really have to get to bed.  Looking forward to you guys' replies in the morning.

I think the landscape looks good. The only sameness I can see is on the steps exiting the cave. They're all the same length so they look a bit artificial. I had to search to find that criticism, so I wouldn't worry about it really.

I'd call this a challenge level, because the required jumps are a bit challenging. The difficulty is at least normal because of those jumps. You could also label it a tutorial if you include the signs you mentioned.

A good way to boost your enthusiasm for a long term project is to post updates on the forum. Forum members will typically give encouraging feedback which might encourage you. It also helps to set smaller goals with nearer deadlines. It can be overwhelming to think about making the whole thing by year's end. Rather, decide on a small piece to finish by week's end, then do it again every week.

I found both jumps to be quite challenging, and I would probably label the level as hard. Definitely not environmental. The scenery was quite nice, but I don't think it worked as an entirely new way to use Nifflas tilesets. The creative use of that branch is a nice touch, but the level is a bit underwhelming, considering how you promise "new and interesting ways" to use the original tilesets. I can't think of too many levels where only tilesets by Nifflas are used, but check out the screens from this thread, for example: http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=1899.0 Have you played anything like Bunnrey's "Caverns", or Strange Darkness' "Scorching Sun"? Or any of the really experimental levels, e.g. Lingon's "Find the Bug" or my levels, like "Pestilence"?

A small technical thing: I'm pretty sure two rows of rain tiles won't make more rain than one row, but it's been a while since I checked. As for workflow, unless you've got completed levels you don't want to release, I'd suggest starting slow and with a small level, maybe a small practice thing to implement some of your ideas. Inexperienced KS level designers tend to abandon their large projects: picking up experience as they go along, they end up with early screens being worse than the ones completed later.

I think the landscape looks good. The only sameness I can see is on the steps exiting the cave. They're all the same length so they look a bit artificial. I had to search to find that criticism, so I wouldn't worry about it really.

I noticed that, too.  I was too tired last night to do anything about it, but I've tweaked it a bit and I'm happy with the results.  I've updated the BIN and screenshot accordingly.

I'd call this a challenge level, because the required jumps are a bit challenging. The difficulty is at least normal because of those jumps. You could also label it a tutorial if you include the signs you mentioned.

Is there a list of these tags and their requisite criteria anywhere? Never mind; it's all in the INI files themselves.  I guess that I'd go with Challenge, Miscellaneous, Normal, and Small.  Any chance of a moderator amending the thread title?

A good way to boost your enthusiasm for a long term project is to post updates on the forum. Forum members will typically give encouraging feedback which might encourage you. It also helps to set smaller goals with nearer deadlines. It can be overwhelming to think about making the whole thing by year's end. Rather, decide on a small piece to finish by week's end, then do it again every week.

That's basically how I've been doing it, so that's good to hear.

I found both jumps to be quite challenging, and I would probably label the level as hard. Definitely not environmental.

So, what would be "environmental"?  Something like Mashu Prapa?

The scenery was quite nice, but I don't think it worked as an entirely new way to use Nifflas tilesets. The creative use of that branch is a nice touch, but the level is a bit underwhelming, considering how you promise "new and interesting ways" to use the original tilesets.

Sorry if I oversold myself there.  I didn't mean to imply that I'd be doing anything especially groundbreaking, just that I'd be trying to make interesting settings and avoiding obvious tileset combinations.

Also, is there any way to put tiles in front of objects?

I can't think of too many levels where only tilesets by Nifflas are used, but check out the screens from this thread, for example: http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=1899.0

Yeah, that's basically the look that I'm trying to avoid here.

Have you played anything like Bunnrey's "Caverns",

Yes.  I thought that it was pretty cool, but unpolished in some areas.

or Strange Darkness' "Scorching Sun"?

Didn't care too much for that one, I'm afraid.

Or any of the really experimental levels, e.g. Lingon's "Find the Bug" or my levels, like "Pestilence"?

I haven't played Find the Bug, but it sounds interesting.  Where can I get it?

As for Pestilence, it just wasn't my thing.  It looked like you built a level, then randomly changed the tilesets.  Is that how you did it?

A small technical thing: I'm pretty sure two rows of rain tiles won't make more rain than one row, but it's been a while since I checked.

It didn't look like it was doing anything, but I wasn't sure about it.  I've removed the extra row.

As for workflow, unless you've got completed levels you don't want to release, I'd suggest starting slow and with a small level, maybe a small practice thing to implement some of your ideas. Inexperienced KS level designers tend to abandon their large projects: picking up experience as they go along, they end up with early screens being worse than the ones completed later.

All right.  Thanks for the advice.

You can change the thread's title yourself by clicking the modify button on the opening post.

As for Pestilence, it just wasn't my thing.  It looked like you built a level, then randomly changed the tilesets.  Is that how you did it?

Ouch. That's a bit mean. Yohji has a distinctive style. Sometimes it's challenging, but sometimes it's beautiful.

You can use COs to put tiles in front of objects. There's a CO manual here.

You can use COs to put tiles in front of objects. There's a CO manual here.

Alternatively, there's egomassive's Knytt Stories + mod, which I'm surprised he didn't mention. It's capable of repurposing layer 2 as a foreground layer.