The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]

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Offline Denis

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Re: The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2012, 17:31:22 »
I believe yes.
Son of prometheus

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Offline Al

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Re: The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2012, 18:16:05 »
If it is. It's really too bad, look soooo promising.
Sorry for my lame English (French, Canada).

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Offline egomassive

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Re: The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2012, 18:36:45 »
I need suggestions. In the opening post there's a picture of sewers with a body of water in front of layer 3. I've decided not to do that because it looks awkward where the water ends (on another screen.) I'd still like to have water falls in front, but now they look awkward. (See attachment.) I'm not sure what to do about it.

@ Al: Denis is correct. You'll need to use my mod to play this level. Moreover, my mod has features that can improve the experience for playing any level. Better install and selection menus help you start playing faster. A map system may help navigate levels better. The 200% zoom gives pixel perfect scaling for screens wider than 1200 px. So, you should use my mod to play every level (except for levels made for other mods.)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 18:57:48 by egomassive »

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Offline LPChip

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Re: The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2012, 18:43:18 »
let the falling water continue, as if its not part of the water below.
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Offline Talps

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Re: The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2012, 23:06:08 »
To me it looks fine. The water at the bottom could be slightly closer than the passage she's in. To me it makes the upper passage look more enclosed, as if it's really part of the background.

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Offline sergiocornaga

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Re: The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2012, 08:17:06 »
I'm a fan of the original look. Perhaps you could alter the level design to prevent the player from ever encountering a screen where the water at the bottom ends?

Another idea: introduce a second, more foregroundy brick tileset that bookends water when required.

Why are you scaling your images like that, by the way?

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Offline Denis

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Re: The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2012, 12:07:56 »
Check out this custom object made especialy for Egomassive's mod (2:24).
You may use it in your level.
Son of prometheus

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Offline egomassive

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Re: The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2012, 02:08:13 »
Thanks Denis. I'll consider it. You should post such things in the custom content thread, so people can discuss it without getting off topic.

I'm at around 60 screens now with 7 Custom Objects already. There will be twice as many COs by the time I'm finished polishing these screens. This has me worried that I'll hit the 255 CO limit long before I finish the level. I may have to add a second CO bank to the KS mod.

On the waterfall dilemma, I tried several things but wasn't satisfied with any of them. I pushed the walls in a little where the falls passed, no good. I bumped out the floor where the falls landed, no good. LPChip's suggestion wont work in this case because the falls are filling that basin, and when you cut the flow the basin empties. Sergio's bookend idea is sound, but solid tiles that sit closer to the player than the walls break the tunnel feeling more than the falls do by themselves. I guess if I want to be this picky then I shouldn't put falls in front of the foreground. I may try a hybrid of Sergio's first suggestion and not put the sides of the basin on the same screen as the falls.

@ Sergiocornaga: I'm scaling because I'm being over-protective of my tilesets.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 02:11:01 by egomassive »

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Offline sergiocornaga

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Re: The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2012, 04:42:59 »
If you decide to revert to water that overlaps the foreground, I wonder if using a custom object to show the brick walls, partially translucent below the water surface, would help make the area where the water ends look more normal?

I'm scaling because I'm being over-protective of my tilesets.

That was my hypothesis. I have my doubts that anyone would go to the trouble of chopping up your screenshots to use for tilesets (especially since they'll be accessible in their original format when the level is released) but you're free to be cautious.

P.S. you should update your website with The Dying Core.

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Offline LPChip

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Re: The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2012, 09:10:32 »
Can you create a tile in the tileset that acts like a bucket that stands out, so the water falls in there, and then redirects it to the background? Similar as to how the water comes out in the first place? Perhaps in the ceiling above the water, so it is redirected to the background there. Like the waterfall falls in a cup there, and then it starts at the background again.
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Offline Ultigonio

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Re: The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2012, 07:59:40 »
Haha! I like how unintentionally close I came with my guess for the acronym. :P
But alright! It's good to see you working on something new.  I really want to get back to Pouring, and since I've got a week off, I might just do that.
Indefinitely Held Off:
Pouring
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This Level Plays Itself!

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Offline egomassive

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Re: The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2012, 08:27:36 »
I went and looked up everyone's guesses at the meaning of TToK.
Twelve Tales of Knytt
The Town of Knyttville!
The Tower of K!
Tiny Talk of Kyntt!
The Tower of Kings!
The Tragedy of Khazakhstan!
Toasted Tuba on Ketchup!
Television, Tractors or Kindling!
The Theory of Knowledge?
You're right about being close, Ultigonio. However, I was close to renaming it Television, Tractors or Kindling!. :P

In more serious news, while taking the suggestion to update my neglected blog, I pondered the latest waterfall ideas. The bucket idea led me to floor grates, but the fact that they'd have to be COs led me back to pushing the walls back a bit. The last time I tested the idea I was sloppy and heavy handed since I was only trying to test the idea. This time I was much more subtle and precise. I think it looks pretty good now. (See attachment in full scale so it wont lose any subtlety.) I think I've managed to make it look as though the water passes through, but Juni can't.

On a related note, do you guys think the algae revealed when the water level changes is too saturated? I'm starting to think so.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 08:37:28 by egomassive »

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Offline Talps

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Re: The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2012, 12:47:40 »
Still wish it was Toasted Tuba.

It looks good now, and yeah, i think the algae comes across a bit strong. Dunno if you should make it paler or patchier...

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Offline LPChip

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Re: The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2012, 13:10:47 »
Algae usually cover partially. They often like to fill the gaps first. Example of little algae: http://www.luxan.eu/54/groene-aanslag-algen/

When algae are present for a much longer time due to water, they usually start to form one big coat. Because of that, you won't be seeing the groves of the bricks anymore. Instead it'll be a green noise based area with really tiny details showing of what used to be (due to elevation). So in your example you would see a little bit of the pillars, but not the bricks in the back.

As for the water grates, I'd suggest putting a little bit of algae there too as shown in first link's image. Water flows through, so algae will flow with it and some will get stuck, forming a small area. Think of it as fungus when some food got out of date and you expose it to air for an hour.
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Offline egomassive

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Re: The Tree of Knowledge [challenge/normal/large]
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2012, 00:13:49 »
I guess I'll need to put more thought into the algae. What LPChip suggests would be more accurate, but a natural look will be more difficult to achieve. Repeating patterns are what I'm worried about. However, I'm moving on to a new area for the moment. I'll come back to the sewers later.

Currently I'm working on the city. It's a mega-city in neo-classical style, very white and very tall. I have posted a screen shot of it before, but I'm now almost completely dissatisfied with how it looked then. My biggest hurdles are figuring out how to manage distant buildings, and how to build a convincing and fun vertical playing field. If any one has some 2D video game examples I could use for technical inspiration please share them.