[Challenge/Small/Hard] Obey (updated)

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Offline Raicuparta

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[Challenge/Small/Hard] Obey (updated)
« on: January 14, 2012, 17:47:27 »
Update: This level has suffered some minor bugfixes and changes.

Spoiler: Version 1.2 Changelog (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Version 1.1 Changelog (click to show/hide)

I started making this for the Knytt Stories Level Competition thread, with the theme "Corruption". Unfortunately, I was unable to finish the level within the time limit, so this didn't count as an entry for that competition.
The level is small, and I had a simple idea in mind. I can't say that it turned out exactly as I had imagined it, but I'm still pretty happy with it.
It uses only one tileset and a few custom objects, there isn't much detail, but that was never the point of it anyway, I am happy with how it looks.
I have to admit that it is a little bit rushed, and I was hoping to have the excuse of it being a competition entry, but even now that I have all the time I need, I felt like I had to get rid of it so I could continue working on my other level.
Still, I am happy with how it turned out. I tested it many times, hope I didn't miss anything, and obviously, I hope you enjoy it.

Download Latest Version (1.2) (thanks to egomassive for the upload)

EDIT: difficulty changed to Hard on the topic title, sorry about that.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 02:51:19 by Raicuparta »

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Offline Healy

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Re: [Challenge/Small/Normal] Obey
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 18:55:03 »
Haven't finished the level yet, but I found a void screen:
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Also, this level needs way more save points, if you ask me. Part of the reason I ran into that void was because I wanted to use a save point on the other screen.

More detailed analysis will come when I have finished the level.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 19:09:32 by Healy »

Re: [Challenge/Small/Normal] Obey
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 21:09:45 »
some comments on the third screen, which was the screen where i stopped playing.

A: this is where a save point needs to be.

B: first of all, "don't touch the floor here" was kind of unclear. i initially thought it meant that whole island, and i didn't understand how to get through. second, that jump is super difficult. if you refuse to make the jump any smaller, you need to make the bookend platforms at either side (the parts i'm allowed to touch) wider. i need to be running to make that jump and there's next to no space to start running on that platform. on the right side, when i have made the jump, i've overshot and ran into the water before i could brake.

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Offline Widget

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Re: [Challenge/Small/Normal] Obey
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 21:56:59 »
Only just started, really, but this level is at least the far end of Hard, more likely Very Hard. I like the look of it, though, and the concept is really good.
Edit: I will say it's really nice to get a new VH level that's so interesting so I wouldn't personally want to see the jumps shortened, or anything otherwise watered down, and though it definitely needs some more saves, possibly not to go too crazy with them; the first area's fine (in my biased opinion) up until the high jump powerup, it just needs one save before (or maybe after) the fireball-spitting enemies. Maybe both if you wanted to try toning it down to Hard but I think that'd be a shame.

The corrupt area is perfect on the save front (and on all other aspects aswell), wouldn't change anything about it. I got a bit lost for a while at one point but that was just me being dull-witted.
 
This level feels a bit like Going Left, in a funny sort of way, and has the potential to be is, like that, an exceptional level in my opinion.


I've played through to the two normal endings now and I've gotta say, my first impressions were way off, this is a fascinating level and well worth working at.
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
I'll start over now and see how I feel about the first dozen-or-so screens second time round.
Edit: Okay, definitely that one save I mentioned before but I think it's otherwise fine. I'm working round that lack by using the save one screen left of the high-jump at the moment but it's really counter-intuitive.

I could do with a second opinion on the difficulty from someone more experienced at Hard-Very Hard levels than me. I got through a lot more easily second time through but that could just be all the practice  :P

If you jump down at x1017y1000 (I know, why would I..? but..) then x1017y1001 - x1018y1001 is a wallswim.
Jumping up or right from x1001y1003 is a void, as is down or right from x1001y1004.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 02:26:19 by Widget »

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Offline Raicuparta

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Re: [Challenge/Small/Normal] Obey
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2012, 09:21:54 »
Ugh. Seems like I left lots of voids behind. Will fix that soon.
About the lack of saves on the beginning, sorry about that. What I was going for was this:
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

To Widget:
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

I will try to make this a more playable level, I really didn't mean it to be a Hard or Very Hard one, because I myself don't like those that much. For now I will change the difficulty on the topic name untill I fix it, maybe it will still be Hard but not as annoying. For those who gave up on the level, sorry if that was because of the misleading difficulty tag, I suggest that you only try again when I update it.

Thanks for the feedback.

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Offline Widget

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Re: [Challenge/Small/Normal] Obey
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2012, 09:33:40 »
Aw, I'm sad to hear you're going to be making it easier though I can see why. I think the format works very well as a difficult level as it reinforces the impression of being someone's pawn. The limited save points also worked really well, it could just use one a couple of tiles left of the high jump; that was the only part that felt a bit excessive. There was that save I ended up using (which worked just as well) but I only found that was still there by accident.

If you don't mind I'm going to keep and treasure this first version as I meant everything I said about it; it's a fantastic level as it is (excusing the voids).
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
It only really suffered for being mislabelled as Normal, I think; what people got was not what they were expecting.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 09:36:42 by Widget »

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Offline Raicuparta

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Re: [Challenge/Small/Normal] Obey
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2012, 10:02:21 »
Aw, I'm sad to hear you're going to be making it easier though I can see why. I think the format works very well as a difficult level as it reinforces the impression of being someone's pawn. The limited save points also worked really well, it could just use one a couple of tiles left of the high jump; that was the only part that felt a bit excessive. There was that save I ended up using (which worked just as well) but I only found that was still there by accident.

If you don't mind I'm going to keep and treasure this first version as I meant everything I said about it; it's a fantastic level as it is (excusing the voids).
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
It only really suffered for being mislabelled as Normal, I think; what people got was not what they were expecting.
I really haven't decided what I'm gonna change exactly, but it might not become much easier. That annoying first jump will probably remain as it is, and I will just move the saves a bit closer to it. Also, if I'm in a good mood, maybe I'll put all the keys back in and make a bonus ending, but probably not one that adds anything to the story. I'm just a little disappointed at myself for rushing things, and its the second time now :/
Expect an update soon.

EDIT: Version 1.1 is up, no new content, just a few fixes, hope there isn't much more to fix.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 10:46:24 by Raicuparta »

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Offline GrayFace

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Re: [Challenge/Small/Hard] Obey (updated)
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2012, 00:26:27 »
Great level :)
Spoiler: bugs (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 00:32:30 by GrayFace »

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Offline egomassive

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Re: [Challenge/Small/Hard] Obey (updated)
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 16:49:44 »
This was fun. Nice tiles and animations. The only part I didn't like was the...
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Anyway, the story was well written. The do-as-you're-told concept seems to be really popular lately. This example is as good as any other I've seen.

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Offline Raicuparta

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Re: [Challenge/Small/Hard] Obey (updated)
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2012, 18:07:24 »
Wow there are some voids and wallswims here that I have no idea how they even happened. Thanks for pointing them out, everyone.

Version 1.2 is up with fixed voids and wallswims, most of them from GrayFace's post.
I'm glad that I didn't upload the first version to the level archive, I hate having multiple versions there.

Spoiler: bugs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

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Offline Talps

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Re: [Challenge/Small/Hard] Obey (updated)
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2012, 19:05:18 »
Beware; this is my honest, hard-hearted, unadulterated opinion from immediately after playing once:

The only thing between this and being a great level is the massive shortage of save points.

As it is, it's frustrating, annoying and mean.

The only screen that's overly cruel is the 'walk only on the grass' screen where you constantly skid off and die at the end of difficult jumps, of which there are many in that screen. Fix that, be a lot more generous with save points, and this will be brilliant. Right now, my curiosity at discovering the second ending is foiled by my aversion to playing through the whole level a second time.

On positive:
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 19:19:36 by Talps »

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Offline GrayFace

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Re: [Challenge/Small/Hard] Obey (updated)
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2012, 00:01:00 »
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Widget, what do you think about the above spoiler?

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Offline Widget

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Re: [Challenge/Small/Hard] Obey (updated)
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2012, 03:36:32 »
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

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Offline egomassive

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Re: [Challenge/Small/Hard] Obey (updated)
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2012, 06:48:46 »
Spoiler: about the end (click to show/hide)

ETA: spoiler tags
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 06:54:05 by egomassive »

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Offline Talps

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Re: [Challenge/Small/Hard] Obey (updated)
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2012, 13:06:27 »
I'd agree with Ego; I like how his levels let you pick a new route post-credits (though I say this in the knowledge that I just deliberately made a level where this is impossible, though I hope I can get away with this as making that decision was the whole reason for the level's existence).

In the interest of criticism and mutual support, I'm gonna post my specific ideas about the nastiest sections and screens in this level, using diagrams where appropriate. I hope I don't sound presumptuous, especially after how utterly I've let you down after I said I'd test 'Time Fixes Everything' (sorry :( )
If you or anyone else disagrees with what I say, they're more than welcome to say so.

Spoiler: 1012/1001 - 1013-1001 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: 1013/1000 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: 1008/1004 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: 1000/999 (click to show/hide)
That is my only complaint about the dark area; one lack-of-save. Otherwise, it has a great atmosphere, encourages curiosity like the previous area restricts it, and has a brilliant narrative from the Evil Voice. The jump you orchestrate in screen 1002/1000 is a very, very clever piece of level design.

Spoiler: 1009/990 (click to show/hide)

There are a few other minor things I could point out but for me, those are the big things that drove me to the edge of destroying all humans. I've played to both endings now and I like the story, the contrast between the two possibilities (won't go into detail 'cus I'm sick of spoiler tags by now) is cleverly done. This has the makings of a really good level as I said before, and I'd love to see it achieve that.
Every level we make teaches us a bit more about how to design well. It's one of the great things about designing for KS, that we can watch ourselves getting better and better at it.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 13:14:14 by Talps »