[Tutorial] Knytt Syndromes

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[Tutorial] Knytt Syndromes
« on: December 05, 2011, 23:23:38 »
i made a little knytt story to help new knytt authors avoid common problems. not really basic problems like misaligned screen edges or putting scenery tiles in the foreground layer, but more subtle things like making foreground objects read as background or using invisible walls to make uneven walls even.

you can find it here.

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Offline Raicuparta

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Re: [Tutorial] Knytt Syndromes
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2011, 13:00:22 »
This was so cool. I was really not expecting it to be anything special, but I liked it :)
There was one problem:
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Also while it is true that too few save points is bad, too many can also be anoying and take all the challenge away. If there are a lot of save points, the player doesn't really care if he dies or not, because there's little consequence to it.

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Offline Harumbai

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Re: [Tutorial] Knytt Syndromes
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2011, 13:28:05 »
I also really enjoyed this level and I found the style of text very engaging. I think it is difficult to sum up advice of this kind as some of it is personal preference (I quite like walking in levels), but there were some insights that helped me to look more at my levels from a players perspective and I'm ashamed to say I'm guilty of a few of those things in most of my levels...

I really think you went about this level in a fun and entertaining way and the end result is very enjoyable to play and learn from :).

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Offline Fubaka

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Re: [Tutorial] Knytt Syndromes
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2011, 19:18:41 »
Some good points in here!  I think you are generally doing the community a service by making a level like this.

However, I have two counterpoints to make.

Firstly, not having the run powerup at the beginning is not a game breaker, and neither is jumping without one.  I've played a good number of levels where you had to perform acrobatics without the run powerup, and I wasn't crying foul.  The only real situation where not being able to run is a bother is if you then make the player walk across several featureless screens, or if you just leave them without the powerup for too long.

Secondly, remember this screen?
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Just a minor point there, but do keep it in mind.

I will say though, that you raised some good concerns that are currently in a level that I am making.  Perhaps I will need to gleam over my own level again and fix some of these problems.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 19:36:45 by Fubaka »
Where is fancy bread? In the heart or in the head?

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Offline Healy

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Re: [Tutorial] Knytt Syndromes
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2011, 01:54:15 »
First off:
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Overall I really enjoyed the level! I liked how you displayed bad design choices without really using them yourself. (If that makes any sense?) It results in an edifying and playable level.

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Offline Harumbai

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Re: [Tutorial] Knytt Syndromes
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2011, 07:03:53 »
Funnily enough I recently played a level where there was no run powerup and it was very good. I'm not sure if anyone knows it, it's called The Lighthouse and the level designer is Dessgeega or something...  :P2

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Offline Pick Yer Poison

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Re: [Tutorial] Knytt Syndromes
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2011, 17:15:46 »
Funnily enough I recently played a level where there was no run powerup and it was very good. I'm not sure if anyone knows it, it's called The Lighthouse and the level designer is Dessgeega or something...  :P2

It Waits also has the character walk through most of the level to give the scenery more impact. There are definitely uses for walking, but given the speeds of most enemies and the sizes of most traps, walking challenges tend to end up more difficult (and often less varied) than ones involving running. This could be good or bad depending on how the level is designed, so it's probably more of something to keep in mind than a rule to follow.

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Offline egomassive

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Re: [Tutorial] Knytt Syndromes
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2011, 01:02:07 »
I'd say that the player should get either the run or high-jump power near the beginning. Juni's like a slug without at least one of those 2. The only thing I really disagreed with was classifying the green pointy thing (14:13) as unpredictable. It backs off as you approach and attacks when you turn away. It's behavior is more un-obvious than anything; it really needs to be introduced to the player in a way that they can figure out its behavior (like in This Level is Unfinished by Nifflas.) Overall though, this was a good tutorial and a nice surprise to see a new level from one of the great level maker of olden times.

Re: [Tutorial] Knytt Syndromes
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2011, 01:31:44 »
yeah dudes, the lighthouse is mostly about vertical movement and it waits is a deliberately slow story. if you withhold the run ability from the player for a reason, great, but a lot of new creators see that the run object is a collectible and decide they ought to treat running as a power-up. so lots of knytt stories start with these really dull screens where the player can't run or leap and just sort of has to plod through the landscape until the player decides to give her an ability.

I liked how you displayed bad design choices without really using them yourself. (If that makes any sense?) It results in an edifying and playable level.

i tried to include some design tips that are more subtle than outright messages on the screen, and if you picked up on that, awesome.

(you have a great sense of screen composition yourself!)

and yeah, i could tell something more subtle was going on with the movements of the spiky green guy but i couldn't figure out exactly how it worked, and if i couldn't, i figured the average player couldn't either. that's unpredictable to me.