[Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one

So, er, first level for this Knytter? :0

Basically, it's a search-and-explore kind of level - I think? Someone has lost a key and needs to find it again to open up the house she recently inherited from her grandfather. I'm not sure about the difficulty - I'd say easy, maybe upped to normal - but mostly, I believe I need advice on how to make interesting, aesthetic screens (I probably tend towards almost bare or incredibly cluttered >_>) and possibly on what tilesets I should use. I mean, I've chosen some - mostly Imaddo's (the ones he or she released on DeviantArt - should I be asking permission, or am I allowed to use them as long as I mention Imaddo in the credits?) along with a few from the default library - but I'm not sure I'm getting the transitions right.

I suppose I should be showing a couple of screenshots, so you can see what I'm blathering on about? (not sure if they're any good, but...)

And final question: should I be making my own sewer tileset, or other kinds of tilesets? Because with what I have, it looks like I can't really get the effects I want (such as the water falling out of the sewer hole + grate looking wonky).

The first thing I noticed was the backgrounds don't match the foregrounds. The sewers are made of man-made brick, but not the rear wall. That's made of natural cratered rock. I'd suggest using a darker, maybe smaller, brick pattern for the back. The transition in your second screen could use some work. If you were using a brick background for the sewer, then you could put an irregular line between the areas suggesting decay. The transition in the third screen looks fine. I've noticed in Nifflas' levels that he will start the new area's foreground tiles at the edge of a screen. The background will then change with the screen change.

Aesthetically and otherwise, the best advice I can give you is to find a game you like the look of and imitate it. Whenever you wonder is this "almost bare or incredibly cluttered", or question the difficulty, or wonder how to approach a design challenge look at a game you admire and study how it approached the problem. Eventually you'll develop you own style, but until you do it's helpful to compare your level to the works that inspired you to make a level.

Don't take Egomassive's post to be anything discouraging. Frankly, it looks pretty good, especially for a first level. Ego's just helping you out.

@egomassive: You're probably right - I'd chosen the background because I liked how the gray tiles and the blue worked together, but I should make the background match. Thanks for the tips on transition, too! I'd actually never noticed that about Nifflas' levels x3
And thank you again for all your help - I'll certainly be trying out what you're telling me 8D

@Pumpkinbot: No worries, I think I can handle it (and I need all the help I can get) xD And thank you! :3 Though I hope I can get even better in future :0

Oops. I didn't mean to sound overly critical. I was just trying to address all of Exalok's questions. The color combinations are good, it's just the materials that don't mix.

No no, don't worry! Since it was all helpful, I didn't see it as overly critical at all. And yeah, I see what you mean - the blue background's texture seems strange for the sewer I was trying to build. I'm glad I wasn't wrong on the colors, though x3

Okay - sorry for taking so long to post developments xP I'm now finished with the first part and advancing through the second, and I've redone the sewer tileset (as well as another one, a forest). Posting screenshots or feedback on tileset quality, mostly...
(note on the grassland/sewer break: that's something I'm still working on, but the idea is there)

Oh, and I've just got a question: I saw somewhere that environmental only means there isn't any challenge at all, just attention given to aestheticism... but there are some semi-hard jumps in the level I'm making. Should I label it Environmental/Challenge?

Oh wow, that sewer looks very good.

The only feedback I can give you to make it even better is to change the tile of the small bricks to be less noticable. And by that I mean, make the darker grey color lighter so its more close to the lighter color. Due to this, you will still see it are stones, but you will also get the feeling its further away and by such distinction, its easier as a player to see where they can go, rather than to look closely. Especially on the first screenshot (4) at the bottom where you have to jump the gaps, it will be a bit harder to see now where you can and cannot walk.

Okay, I see what you mean! Thanks a lot for the tip :3 I'll be sure to add that to what I've got to do!

I like those trees! You could make inside corners so the border pattern doesn't break.

Don't label your level environmental/challenge! A few difficult jumps are fine in an environmental, especially if missing them doesn't cause death. Some watery deaths are acceptable if they are easy to avoid. Hidden or bonus areas can be really hard to get to, but still don't use enemies. Alternatively, if these semi-hard jumps are numerous and necessary you should label it an easy challenge. There is an unofficial category, scenic, which is used on the forum to indicate that a level is highly aesthetic. So, you could make it a scenic/challenge. Please note that being an unofficial category, scenic cannot be filtered for within the game or on the forthcoming new archive.

True! Good idea, I didn't think about that xP

Hmm... so as long as the difficult jumps don't result in death and death-by-water can be avoided easily enough, and as long as I don't use enemies, it's environmental? I'll be going over everything to make sure it's all okay then x3 Thanks! Just a question on that, though: does it become challenge if I use any enemies at all? I've got spiders in one part of the level...
Oh, okay! Well, in any case, thanks a lot for clearing those things up for me :3 I'll be taking it all into account when I settle everything!

If those spiders become an obstacle you need to pass, then its a challenge. if you can get around them by taking an alternative route, either on the same screen or by going through other screens then not.

Note that environmental levels will be the first choise of people who are new to knytt stories or gaming in general. So if they have to somehow dodge those spiders, they'll fail. Its that, what classifies something as challenge. You can see it like this, if you can label the level easy, its most likely not challenge, but do note: something that is easy for you can be hard for someone else.

Ever played a FPS by ID that has a difficulty setting: Can I play this daddy? with an icon of a baby next to it, thats the kind of difficulty you need to think of with easy.

Okay got it x333 I think I'll be changing some things then! I'll see whether the jumps are difficult and fiddle around with those spiders, and I'll see whether I should re-evaluate the difficulty then. (and of course work on those changes to the tilesets :0 )
but omigawsh thank you so much for being so patient with me and my huge load of questions.

Okay! Sorry about the huge time gap between the last update and now.

Thing is, the computer I was working on then crashed and I lost all of my progress; not only the tilesets and mapwork for Somewhere but also everything I'd done for another project (which amounted to a certain number of tilesets I'd spent hours detailing and reworking, as well as all the screenmaking I'd been doing). All in all I kinda (read: intensely) lost interest in working on my Knytt projects.

Recently, however, I pretty much spontaneously decided to start up again. Also it's summer, so. I've got some free time to get rid of.

To resume: was gone, am back, currently reworking Somewhere with new tilesets as well as the ones I managed to salvage from the screenshots I left here. Hoping to make a world consisting entirely of tilesets I've created. Some are strongly inspired by others' work (such as Imaddo's house things tileset, which I was using previously), some are experiments to see how well I can render different types of terrain and kinds of environment.

Whoo! Screenshots may come shortly.

Oo, excellent! I hope things are more successful for you this go around!