Think the community's state is /worth discussing/?

People already post introductions in this forum, and those all get locked.

Really? More of a reason to actually have a forum for it. Also, for what reason are they locked?

Also, for what reason are they locked?

Generally summed up with:

We indeed started to lock these topics because these topics basically have no other purpose than to be informative.

I'd say that this is a similar case to threads announcing someone's leaving or return: I'll lock it, because there is not much to discuss really.

Quote from: GrayFace on February 07, 2011, 18:38:17

I'd first think about a board for general games discussion. It's very good to have a forum for free games list, but it's very very weird not to have a forum where commercial games can be discussed.

The point of not having that forum is because it'd be advertising. At least, that's what the people who came with that conclusion thought.

I think advertising a good game is a good thing, no matter free or commercial. However, most people play commercial games more and there's usually more to discuss with them, so that board would get more discussion-oriented.

...so that board would get more discussion-oriented.

It would also get more flaming, "Oh-My-God-You-Suck", and a lot more modding needed. Just saying.

I wish it would work that way, but we've had this 'perhaps' assumption before, and we all saw where it lead in the past. Referencing another forum doesn't help either, because this place is not about "keeping up with the Joneses", especially if they have the exact same problem we had. Out of their 16 boards, the last 3 off-topic boards attract 40%(!) of their total forum activity. And that's not even the worst ratio I've seen.

Percentages mean nothing. Just because a lot of the activity is in off-topic boards doesn't mean there's still a thriving community within the game discussion. In fact, I frequent both on-topic and off-topic sections on the GG2 forums. Having an off-topic boards does not automatically guarantee a loss of interest in other parts of the community. And because you claim that forum should not be an example as it is way more active than ours, then look at this forum. The community is in a similar state- in fact, even slower than ours. Yet they continue to support both Calculator and off-topic discussion. Why is this? Because general chatter sections do not shift overall community activity.

Your definition of "past" refers to the time before I even joined the forums back in '08 (or somewhere close to that). As far as I can remember, there wasn't an off-topic section. Things change over a few years. I don't see why you're so reluctant to give it another shot.

Actually, I'm not adamantly against an off-topic subforum as a general idea. it's just that it requires a certain common mindset and maturity among the userbase to make it worthwhile...which has not been proven to exist in abundance in this special community. Excuse the condescendence, but I really don't know what kind of "communtiy-vital" talk you want to hold in an offtopic board anyways...but maybe that's just me.
and really, yeah sure, we could make an offtopic board to prove that we aren't "afraid", and would probably again find the proof that it really does not work with these folks of this forum. but then again, we're the staff, so we make decisions, not court orders that have to have ultimate proof and justification and convince every single affected person.

There purpose of an off-topic forum, as I have stated before, is to allow the community to kick back and talk about other things. There is nothing significantly vital about it, but it does add to the sense of "family".

A/D over at GG2 moderates General Chatter quite efficiently; Pointless topics that do not lead to discussion are instantly locked (GC is not your blog), but otherwise general forum rules apply. Off-topic conversation is allowed as long it bears resemblance to the original post to some degree. Idiots that do not follow these rules are fool'd/banned. It's rather simple: use the off-topic forum as a place for meaningful discussion without the degrading of topics into meme-spewing fountains.

It is not about whether or not the forum can "support" a general discussion section.  The point is that general discussion is not desired by the administration.  Whether it would be detrimental to the rest of the forum is largely irrelevant at the moment.

Also, the non-Nifflas-related discussion that's occuring right now is split into four groups: people whining about the forum or its members, people asking for help with something, "show and tell" (dev. showcase and free games), and forum games.  You say that you have something to say that won't fit in those forums, so maybe you can tell us what it is.

And holy crap, sarcasm is against the rules?

How is beneficialness largely irrelevant? It's what the administration is using as their reasoning for not including an off-topic section, and it's what I'm trying to prove.

Also, other topics: Discuss movies. Discuss music. Discuss food. Discuss programming. Discuss TV shows. Discuss Superbowl ads. Tech support thread. Discuss relationships. Discuss current events. Discuss weather. Discuss educational institutes. General introduction thread. The list goes on.

Quote from: GrayFace on February 08, 2011, 14:31:48

...so that board would get more discussion-oriented.

It would also get more flaming, "Oh-My-God-You-Suck", and a lot more modding needed. Just saying.

Is this statement backed by fact, or is it baseless conjecture?

I just noticed this topic, so here is my 2 cents (plus inflation, means I owe you 3 dollars).

I don't think there is really anything wrong with this forum.  I've been pleasantly surprised that it is active, but not overwhelmingly so.  So many boards just get clogged with random chatter.  Horribly so sometimes.  By contrast, I find this forum is solid.  There are regulars and there are games like KS which will not die.  

To me, this forum is a creative outlet.  Nifflas' games set a standard of quality that most in the forum strive to follow.  I do keep wishing there could be more flexibility in game making here in that to me, each Knitt Story is a Story and only a story.  That is the beauty of it, not that it is about tiny people.  This is a forum about creativity, and only those dedicated to doing so tend to stay.  Again, the beauty of KS is it lets average shmoe's like me, who have no programing skills, to make beautiful games.  There may be other places that do that, but I'm not aware of them.  That is what makes this place unique and solid.

I have always been a little confused as to why there is not general chatter forums here, which would tend to attract more activity, but I've come to realize that I like the stillness here, which seems to ebb and flow without actually "dying."  

Shawnachu posted while I was posting this, so I'll just add the comment that yes, it would be nice to be able to do kick-back chatter, though I've recently come to realize most of that is done in the niffchat.

Niffchat has no permanence; there is no way to access logs of past conversations without being there yourself (unless you ask one of the admins, which is a waste of both people's times)

How is beneficialness largely irrelevant? It's what the administration is using as their reasoning for not including an off-topic section, and it's what I'm trying to prove.

My interpretation of the admins' statements is that general discussion does not belong on the forum. Sort of like putting a pinball machine in an art museum; it may draw more people to the museum, or it may distract people from the art, but either way it has nothing to do with the art museum.
Then again, this particular forum already has at least two pinball machines.

Also, other topics: Discuss movies. Discuss music. Discuss food. Discuss programming. Discuss TV shows. Discuss Superbowl ads. Tech support thread. Discuss relationships. Discuss current events. Discuss weather. Discuss educational institutes. General introduction thread. The list goes on.

I meant tell us something you would post there. (If that applies to all the above, never mind.)

If you're going to argue that a general discussion board would not reduce forum activity, don't look at forums with general discussion boards compared to forums without general discussion boards; look at a forum before it introduces a general discussion board and compare it to the same forum after it introduces the board.

Note that I'm not against a general discussion board.

Quote from: jetio4 on February 08, 2011, 14:55:40

Quote from: GrayFace on February 08, 2011, 14:31:48

...so that board would get more discussion-oriented.

It would also get more flaming, "Oh-My-God-You-Suck", and a lot more modding needed. Just saying.

Is this statement backed by fact, or is it baseless conjecture?

I've been to forums with these general subforums. I've seen how much of flaming and OMGUS goes on, and it's a lot more then in NSF. In fact, NSF seems to have none of that going on. I'm thinking that if NSF does release a General Chatter, it's going to increase activity and members..... but new members will pretty much strictly be in that forum. Heck, it'll be a true forum-inside-a-forum. Note that I am sort of for this general chatter idea.

aww, Headgrinder quite closely said what I feel too: I like that there's not much "social banter". And minmay's expressing it very nicely too with his "pinball machine" metaphor: I don't feel like there's a real place for it here, it's not what this forum is about.

Note: I am not horribly against it, I'm just unfortunately rather convinced that it would not turn out to be worthwhile. And then I wouldn't like something blahness-blurby-pointless-childish on this forum like I expect it to turn into.
So yeah. My point is not that it's a bad thing, my point is that it doesn't fit with this community --in more than one way.

I was thinking.... even if we make the new forum, the first wave of newcomers will know SOMETHING about Nifflas, or wouldn't come in the first place. However, after that, they'll bring their friends who may or may not know anything about, say, Knytt. So we have to prepare to talk about Niff, and not get angry. People who were here when it was first tried out, can you confirm or deny this?

While it's true that this forum is slowly "dying", i'm starting to think that making a offtopic forum, while increasing members, will divert most of the posts and views on the offtopic threads rather than the threads actually pertaining to nifflas games. You can already see that with the "forum games" thread; its the most posted on the entire forum. The "other free games" and "development showcase" also has many posts. Compare that to the actual games and you can see a huge difference. Basically I think that if you want to talk about "offtopic" things you should go to another forum. I think the only real way to revive the forum is for nifflas to release a popular new game like it once did with knytt and wadf. (the way I see it, nightsky is nowhere as popular as knytt). I am for trying the idea and seeing if it really does happen, though. It really sucks because every time I look at the "users online" at the bottom of the page I'm the only one...

I think the only real way to revive the forum is for nifflas to release a popular new game like it once did with knytt and wadf. (the way I see it, nightsky is nowhere as popular as knytt). I am for trying the idea and seeing if it really does happen, though. It really sucks because every time I look at the "users online" at the bottom of the page I'm the only one...

Which is why I'm more then excited for his game-in-progress KnyttWaDF; it would probably bring more users to this forum when it releases. Also, I find the same problem as you with the users online ;P

Personally, I prefer the community the way it is now. It's sleepy and laid back, and I come to this forum when I want to relax and not have to deal with internet morons on other, more active forums. Adding an off-topic board would most likely just bring that over here. We have a nice base of (mostly) intelligent users; why do you expect a random chat board to bring more or improve that? Let's face it, many people who play Knytt/Knytt Stories are rather young when they first find it, and upon coming here they would immediately gravitate towards that board and take root, instead of either rising to the standards in the other boards or leaving. Yes, the board might be moderated as heavily as Alcatraz, but no amount of moderation can stop genuinely stupid posts from appearing, especially in a type of board that many consider to be made for anything they want to blurt out that doesn't fit somewhere else.

You know I see these 'hello' threads and don't understand why they get locked. Maybe would be nice to have an introduction thread? Don't know if people feel welcomed saying hello, a mod comes and say locked sorry but it's the rules.