[Challenge/Scenic/Epic Length - KS+] Dragon Myth

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Offline Talps

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Re: [Hard/Challenge, Scenic/Epic] Dragon Myth
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2013, 16:58:56 »
I probably wouldn't choose Mountain Lake now, but it was woven into the plot by this point. It does look a lot better with a foreground. Problem is it takes up layers 0 and 1, and as I'm using Overlay on a couple of those village screens (taking up layer 2), I ended up having to convert the Mountain Lake backgrounds into gradients. Still, got there in the end.

Today I have tackled the issue of recolouring one of the old areas that really needed to be made lighter. It's not perfect, but it's better. Not sure if I'll settle with it as it now is or change it more at another time. See the screenshot in this post and one the one in the opening post for contrast (if you have any suggestions for background colour/patterns that might work, I'd love to hear them). There's a really cool wardrobe in the screen to the right of this one (if I do say so myself).

(Yay, after all this time this topic finally makes 2 pages!)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 17:00:45 by Talps »

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Offline pfrangip

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Re: [Challenge/Scenic/Epic Length - KS+] Dragon Myth
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2013, 18:16:29 »
I'm glad to see that this has been revived! Especially I've been on a Medieval kick myself, lately, due to Game of Thrones Season 3.

I REALLY like what you did in that last screenshot... I may steal some inspiration for a Medieval level I've started working on myself.

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Offline Talps

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Re: [Challenge/Scenic/Epic Length - KS+] Dragon Myth
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2013, 18:43:15 »
I'm so chuffed with this, I had to post it; Juni is now armed and dangerous!

(It's a sword, I hope, and no; she's not about to stab that fairy.) Custom characters rock!

Also showing off one of the awesome fairy COs egomassive very kindly made me, on the left there. Cheers, dude!


And thanks for posting, Polana and pfangrip; it's great to hear people are interested. I've always been into fairy tales, even as an adult; even tried my hand at writing a few.
Making this, I started with the map tileset used in 'Gustav's Daughter' and had a long look at what it included and what I could use from it. The story grew out of that, though I like to think that that tileset has as much in common with the whole level as a seed has with a tree.

I was reading through my old posts in this thread a while ago; can't believe how inordinately proud I was over using a flag! (This from a guy squeeing over giving Juni a sword.)


EDIT: Two years ago I wrote the script for a cutscene. Two minutes ago, I finished making that cutscene! :D
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 02:52:58 by Talps »


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Offline Talps

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Re: [Challenge/Scenic/Epic Length - KS+] Dragon Myth
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2013, 16:59:13 »
When was the last time I used the hologram? I think it was way back in 'Petals of a Dying Flower'. I've made about seven challenge screens since introducing it and I'm already recalling all the reasons I don't like it. It completely neutralises too many enemies, so you end up using things it doesn't effect, so it ends up being completely pointless! On top of that, you can't rely on the player to remember they have it, so there's potential for players getting stuck trying to find a way of getting past an area that requires it 'cus they've forgotten about it.

Outside of a level like 'The Machine', where the player has to pass through challenge areas multiple times so it's nice for making them simpler in later runs, it's value is questionable. One thing I tried hard to achieve in 'Dragon Myth', after how much some parts of 'Eurydice' annoyed people, was trying to largely avoid having the player run through challenge areas multiple times - something the map is a big help with.

If the hologram wasn't already worked into the infrastructure of the level, I'd probably cut it out. I meant to introduce it in the last area of 'I Dreamed of the Sky' but dropped it 'cus it wouldn't have been compatible with the challenges I wanted to make; that's why there's that combination lock in the last area instead. I've outgrown my impulse to put every upgrade in every big level I make.

So I guess I need to experiment with creative uses for it before I press on with the next area. Does anyone know any levels that use the hologram particularly cleverly?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 17:03:59 by Talps »

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Offline egomassive

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Re: [Challenge/Scenic/Epic Length - KS+] Dragon Myth
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2013, 18:10:43 »
Under a Black Sky has a section combining appearing blocks and seeking projectiles. When the hologram is on you can't see your path.

You may be able to assist players in remembering to use their hologram with clues. Place an image of a hologram on a sign board before a hologram related challenge. Place an obvious hologram obstacle like the elementals, 2:18 and 2:19, before your clever challenge.

Re: [Challenge/Scenic/Epic Length - KS+] Dragon Myth
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2013, 14:13:10 »
How much further have you got with this, Talps? I really want to play it!
I've never meta pun I didn't like.

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Offline juhj

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Re: [Challenge/Scenic/Epic Length - KS+] Dragon Myth
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2013, 14:21:49 »
Quote
How much further have you got with this, Talps? I really want to play it!

I second this.
I'm really looking forward to this one.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 14:25:25 by juhj »
image removed, became invalid
Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

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Offline Talps

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Re: [Challenge/Scenic/Epic Length - KS+] Dragon Myth
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2013, 15:55:00 »
It's great to hear of your interest guys! Thanks! :D

I've gotten a little stuck on a a particular part of this where I need to come up with some clever uses for the hologram (or indeed any use for the hologram at all - it's not my favourite upgrade as a designer) while keeping the challenges within the context of the story and characters.
If that sounded complicated then good! :P

I've come up with a few ideas for solving the problem but in the meantime I've started work a smaller level which I'm currently calling 'Remember Me', which will have its own thread once I have all of the basic infrastructure completed; I'm low on free time now but hopefully it'll be done in a few months. Once it is finished and released I'll come back to working on 'Dragon Myth'.

I'd like to reiterate my previous request that if anyone can think of a level that they think makes good use of the hologram, feel free to tell me about it.

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Offline sergiocornaga

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Re: [Challenge/Scenic/Epic Length - KS+] Dragon Myth
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2013, 04:14:09 »
My favourite hologram-centric level is The Oubliette by dessgeega, but more for the ending than for the challenges included.

I am of a similar opinion regarding the hologram. Introducing it comes with a number of downfalls, and sometimes it's more trouble than it's worth. Furthermore, for a fantasy setting such as this level, the hologram doesn't feel all that appropriate.

Depending on the structure of your level and the hologram-based material you've already built, another solution may be possible (though requiring effort, and even then maybe you won't be interested). Knytt Stories allows for shift denial based on whether or not the hologram is active, yet this feature remains woefully unused by the vast majority of levels. A more scripting-based approach to the hologram is definitely possible, with shift-based puzzles or challenges relying on hologram state. Given that you're working with KS+ you could also give it a visual makeover (in both item bar and custom character sheet) to be more thematically appropriate. Something related to the witches, maybe?

Just to provide an example, the hologram could be repurposed as fire resistance. Juni glows blue or something, and can walk through walls of fire that are otherwise harmful. The hologram sprite typically left behind is simply removed from the spritesheet. Of course, this exact idea is probably unusable in this level since you mentioned the hologram affecting the level's enemies (and a lack of hologram sprite would make their altered behaviour seem weird), so you'll have to come up with something else if you're interested in this approach!

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Offline Talps

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Re: [Challenge/Scenic/Epic Length - KS+] Dragon Myth
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2013, 09:54:03 »
That is a very interesting idea and I will give it some thought. Unless it's changed, you can't change one upgrade's image without having to change them all, which is a great shame and why I won't be changing the hologram's appearance to something less sci-fi-y. But I'll think about if there is a way of using shifts to make the hologram interesting.

Point of note: I did use a hologram-proof shift for the stone eyes at the end of 'Eurydice'.

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Offline egomassive

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Re: [Challenge/Scenic/Epic Length - KS+] Dragon Myth
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2013, 16:40:36 »
... Unless it's changed, you can't change one upgrade's image without having to change them all, which is a great shame and why I won't be changing the hologram's appearance to something less sci-fi-y. ...
Actually you have Raicuparta to thank for this. At his behest I made it so you can replace the in-game power graphics the same way you replace graphics for most objects.
Code: (from KS+ Instructions) [Select]
Bank 0 System:
Objects 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 21, 22, 23, 24, 35
See "Custom Powers" section below to change them all at once.

Object 3
Frames 0-11 looping animation

Objects 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 21, 22, 23, 24, 35
Frames 0-7 looping animation
Note: Powers 9, 21, 22, 23, 24 do not have animations originally.

Object 5
Frames 0-6 looping animation

Object 6
Frames 0-5 looping animation

All other objects not implemented.
Note: OCO powers are not affected by "Custom Powers"
As for the icons in the item bar, these insert themselves independently. So if you drop a 24x24 image named "PowerIcon7.png" in the Custom Objects folder of any level, then the hologram icon will be replaced in the item bar. This has the side effect of removing the animation the hologram power icon normally has.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 16:42:47 by egomassive »

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Offline Headgrinder

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Re: [Challenge/Scenic/Epic Length - KS+] Dragon Myth
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2013, 04:31:45 »
My 2 cents is that a hologram can fit nicely into a fantasy setting if your willing to think of it along the lines of "ancient tech" that you get in stories like the original final fantasy.  Hell Boy and the the original Clash of the Titans does this too.

As for puzzles... yeah, I dunno either.  It's really just a gate keeper item that also lets you get through certain types of enemies easier.

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Offline Talps

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Re: [Challenge/Scenic/Epic Length - KS+] Dragon Myth
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2013, 10:20:38 »
My hologram was made by a magic metalsmith.
He's the one standing behind Juni in the screenshot with the sword.