[Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City

Uhm, could you put that in spoiler tags? That's a semi-secret area... ;-)

I do see a problem with the one tree at bottom front - but that, to me, is more of a lack-of-contrast problem than a detail problem. I guess I don't really see patterns on ground tiles as 'detail' in the same sense as detail on things like houses etc. And the trees are very clearly meant as 'not-background' in the tileset, I think. Granted, the fact that they're *meant* that way doesn't guarantee that they'll *work* that way - especially not for everyone. They did for me, though.

When someone sees an object with only one color and no outline, they will generally expect to see it in the background.

(Didn't realize that was a secret area, sorry!)

an object with only one color and no outline

Oh, like grass?

Ya know, I'm kind of intrigued by the fact that the only people commenting on this seem to be my beta testers (apart from lamarblake, that is). Are you guys my fan club or what? ;-)

Sweet, you have a fan club? Where can I join?

And never fear, this happened with Outer Reaches too; a huge response to the beta and then a much smaller response to the actual level. I think more people respond to beta levels because while they're in production they're being updated, so there's more time for people to see them and get involved, whereas a new level isn't as noticeable (I must admit, I myself rarely check the new level releases board anymore).

I really enjoyed this level. I found it quite calming to walk back and forth in it

I have a question though: I've heard that piano tune that was playing in the darker area in games before. What is it? I quite like it.

Congratulatons on getting it released! Looks just as beautiful as the last beta I tested

It is kind of sad that few people commented, I was particularly expecting someone to post about I mean, it's so unexpected and it looks so nice

Oh, like grass?

Obviously there are exceptions, mostly extremely small things like grass and rocks (and even then it can still look weird on occasions).

Wait, do you disagree that it looks strange to put far background tiles in the near background or foreground?

Hm. My brain just doesn't parse those trees as something that looks like it should be in the far background, I guess. It puts them in the same category as most other trees in KS (except for very small, pale-coloured ones), namely, the category of "stuff that is somewhere fairly closely behind Juni". Nifflas' trees usually don't have outlines either. (IMO, outlines on trees look odd, in most cases - what with the twigs and branches usually being fairly thin and all...)

Also, that particular screen technically doesn't even have a far background - it's just a couple of ledges on a cliff face.

I suspect this is another one of those intractable matters of personal opinion... ;-)

@bulbapuck: It's a track called "Dark Walk" (I think) by Kevin MacLeod.  MacLeod's stuff is used in a lot of free games. Also, I'm really happy to hear you found the level calming, as that's one of the effects I was aiming for. :-)

@yohji: Well, at least my roommate told me today that he'd just found . *g*

Personally, I'm more surprised nobody commented on as that's what I find the most visually striking element of the level, myself. But then, everyone has a different emotional reaction to things, and that is just *my* reaction. :-)

Incidentally, the idea of was inspired not just by the already mentioned manga, but also, on the visual level, by a round of my mad creativity technique of randomly stepping through the tilesets that left me with a screen in which That was the real first seed of this level.

Nifflas' trees usually don't have outlines either.

They have many colors, though.

Quote from: Hmpf on March 07, 2010, 19:14:18

Nifflas' trees usually don't have outlines either.

They have many colors, though.

Not all of them. Remember the trees in the devastated landscape in The Machine?

Also... the trees (in my level) are supposed to be dead or just barely alive; so they wouldn't have leaves. And the lighting in the area where they are primarily used is diffuse enough (evening; shady ledges on a cliff) to make their not having pronounced shadows - the other thing that might cause them to be more than one colour -  quite logical. Well, at least to me. But, as I said, I suspect this is one of those differences of opinion that are just unsolvable. My brain says 'those trees are in the medium-foreground', your brain says 'those trees are in the far background'. Whose brain is right? For what it's worth, none of my betas found a problem with the trees. But, ultimately it doesn't matter. It bothered you; it didn't bother me; end of story, really.

Not all of them. Remember the trees in the devastated landscape in The Machine?

The key is that they're more detailed than anything behind them.

Of course, it obviously isn't just detail; there's saturation and such to consider as well.  And yes, this is obviously also a difference in opinion.  If you prefer to halt this discussion, that's fine.

Stunning work here, Ms. MacSlow. 

From what I understand about the concept of this level, the feeling I get when playing this is like each section is like a snapshot, and they're ephemeral. The smaller areas really help this, they're microcosms - capsules of beauty.

Just a small gripe - the piano tune is a little loud - sometimes it drowns out the games' sound effects. Nothing too damning, I know. :p

This has shot somewhere up in my favourite level list, for sure.

I love this level. I don't like Playgrounds because they don't have an end, but this is one of the few I will definitely keep.

And Hmpf, unless something was changed, Environmental levels have ends. Only Playgrounds don't have a win square.

I could think of a great ending cutscene, if you want.

I love this level. I don't like Playgrounds because they don't have an end, but this is one of the few I will definitely keep.

And Hmpf, unless something was changed, Environmental levels have ends. Only Playgrounds don't have a win square.

I could think of a great ending cutscene, if you want.

LOL, the beta team for this level actually discussed the Environmental vs. Playground issue, and whether the level needed a cutscene ending (or any ending at all). We all agreed it worked better open-ended. Hmpf is using Environmental in the Scenic sense, obviously, rather than the strict Nifflas definition.

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edited to add:

Quote from: Hmpf on March 07, 2010, 19:14:18

Nifflas' trees usually don't have outlines either.

They have many colors, though.

The key is that they're more detailed than anything behind them.

If you find these screenshots confusing, minmay, I submit that the problem is not in the screenshots but in your perception.

And Hmpf, unless something was changed, Environmental levels have ends. Only Playgrounds don't have a win square.

Herblgerblgack. Looks like I've labeled Darkness wrong then.