The Floating Island [Challenge/Puzzle?]

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Offline Nintendork64

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The Floating Island [Challenge/Puzzle?]
« on: February 28, 2010, 02:03:37 »
Juni finds an island floating in the sky, and decides to explore it. You know, cause it's there.
Originally inspired by Sonic 3 & Knuckles' Angel Island, it started to take a life of it own.
It's a medium-sized level so far, but I'm hoping to expand it so it scrapes the "large" category. It's got grassy ruins, a windy desert, an icy cliff, and a vast interior with plenty of maze-like passages and clever puzzles. This is my second KS level, my first (titled Ghastly Sewers) was too crappy to post online :/. Though I did bring over a couple of the best parts from that level.
The screens you see here are not final. I'm planning to add more detail to them when I've finished the locations.

 

 

 

 

 

So how does it look so far?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 02:08:45 by Nintendork64 »

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Offline AClockworkLemon

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Re: The Floating Island [Challenge/Puzzle?]
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2010, 03:10:08 »
Hmm.. Melikes! Just an idea, try using something like TinyPic so that people don't have to click on all the links. (make sure to put the images in a folder, tho)

I think the level looks quite intriguing. It could be absolutely brilliant if you got some nice custom tilesets, but the line between nice and butt-ugly is a fine one.

Looking forward to this release!
I'm not dead. Not entirely. And yes, I'm embarrassed by most of the posts I made here.
:hiddenstar: - From Pumpkinbot

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Offline minmay

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Re: The Floating Island [Challenge/Puzzle?]
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2010, 03:55:37 »
Imgur is far preferable to TinyPic.

The level looks very dull to be honest, but I don't expect much from anyone's first level.  And you did say you were going to add detail.

Re: The Floating Island [Challenge/Puzzle?]
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2010, 05:08:19 »
This does indeed look very interesting. Just one thing:


Use invisible shifts on this screen. ("ShiftVisible(?)=False" in the init, or the visibilty chackbox in the manager.)

Edit: @minmay: Sure it looks dull, but the level releases board is quite dull itself. You just don't get top quality levels anymore.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 18:16:34 by Purple Pineapple »
Lurk more.

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Offline Nintendork64

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Re: The Floating Island [Challenge/Puzzle?]
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2010, 06:17:33 »
Yep, I was gonna get around to that. I know the in-and-outs of the level designer, my problem is making environments engaging, like poster #2 mentioned. Any advice?

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Offline Pumpkinbot

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Re: The Floating Island [Challenge/Puzzle?]
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2010, 09:06:15 »
Yep, I was gonna get around to that. I know the in-and-outs of the level designer, my problem is making environments engaging, like poster #2 mentioned. Any advice?
Try to use all three background layers. For example, play Gaia, one of Nifflas' games, or my own The Mysterious Grotto[/shamelessadvertising]
Play the game from a designer's standpoint. "What do I like about this screen? Is it the clever use of objects? Or the illusion of perspective? Or maybe it's just the intricate patterns in the ground?" But remember not to steal the idea totally. You only want to take the basic premise. Like, if I was going to copy Super Mario Bros., I wouldn't take it's turtle-like enemies or unique floating blocks everyone seems to be using these days, but just the core: pits, jumping to and from platforms, and jumping on enemies to vanquish them. But also know when it's a really bare-bones concept, like putting the top of the water  one tile lower on an island in the water (attached, "water"). Then it's okay because it's not really specific. A good idea to know when to steal is to ask yourself, "Would this be the kind of thing someone would copyright?"

Also, use all your resources. They add something new to see and they can even be used to overcome layering issues, like if you need an extra layer, make a single-frame CO of it and put it atop the tile. Take this screen from a level I'm sort of working on a semi-wheneverIfeellikeit basis (attached, "layers"). The game's transitioning from an area with a light background to a dark background. In the tileset for the darker area, there's a semi-transparent gray tile that I used to transition backgrounds slowly rather than abruptly. True, I didn't need it, but I didn't like how it looked without it. (I'll bring this up later, too.) Well, layer 0 was devoted to the background (I used tiles from the lighter area's tileset because the background for the whole place was rather specific), layer 1 was devoted to the dark area's gray transition pieces, and layer 2 was devoted to some pipes in the background. The rest of the dark area has grass on it, yet I don't have another background layer for it. How do I solve this problem? Let's play "Professor Pumpkinbot and the Curious Level Editor." How can I fix this?
Spoiler: Solutions (click to show/hide)

Another thing to keep in mind is there's rarely such a thing someone could describe as "overdoing it". I have yet to see a game that's overdone something (save for "Teenhmifnoeafgil" and "DEtM", but they're special cases, due to the premise behind them). This may not necessarily be the case, though, because if it looks over-the-top, it's usually glaring and easy to spot that it's an eyesore.

And when doing anything at all, try to definitely do NOT do what's already been done a hundred times before, especially if it's been done well. I have rarely seen a game where the music was default KS music and I absolutely LOVED the game. Same goes for tilesets. Please please please don't use "Not Quote Dr. Cliche's Underwater Lab" or any variant of "Flower Garden." They've been used more than any other tileset in the default library! Same goes for the music. I can see why people don't try to use new music, though. It's hard to find music that's totally free to use and not everybody's a natural born musician. But, if you Google "cc license music" or "creative commons music", you're bound to find a site. Don't bug other people into making a song just for your game, though. It usually works out in the following way.
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
In the end, both people leave disheartened. So please try Google-ing. And make abso-freakin'-lutely sure that the game is under a CC license that says you can use it in your game. If it doesn't say "yes" or "no", don't use it. Or ask the author and save that message.

One last thing. (Woez, this is long. "tldr" much, huh?) If it looks or works wrong, change it. The first Madden game had a huge problem: this was the early '90s. The game systems couldn't handle that many complex sprites at a time. The programmers no doubt wanted to quit and say, "You're crazy, Richard Hilleman!" But Hilleman said, "Think harder, programmers! What could we do?" After [insert long time frame here] of slaving over a hot keyboard, they came up with a solution that I don't quite remember offhand, but this was the start of many more immensely popular games to go.
This may be an extreme case, though, so weigh how difficult it would be to fix it over how ugly or inconvenient it would be. Most people say if it's really really easy to fix, do it. But I'd raise the bar. If it's really tough to do, think about doing it later when you're more inspired. That's what I do. But there is one thing that is my downfall. When I'm trying to fix a particularly tough situation, sometimes my brain kicks in and says, "Hey, you know, you don't have to do this. It works okay, right?" Then I crumple it up and toss it into the Recycling Bin. Do. Not. Do. This. Just think about the task at hand, nothing else. Not even The Game (shit).

Hmm...I'm gonna post this elsewhere, too. :>
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 09:09:06 by Pumpkinbot »
A God, a Messiah, an Angel, a King, a Prince, and an All Terrain Vehicle.

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Offline Nintendork64

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Re: The Floating Island [Challenge/Puzzle?]
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2010, 23:52:04 »
"Please please please don't use 'Not Quote Dr. Cliche's Underwater Lab' or any variant of 'Flower Garden.'"

Damn, I love the underwater lab tileset. It the only one that has tile-wide pipes in it, and some of the puzzles involve re-routing water. Anyway, thanks for the information, but I doubt I'm dedicated enough to follow through on a lot of these. The gradient is actually slightly edited from it's original (sky is a "daytime blue" instead of an "early evening blue"). The three background layers might be hard to incorperate into the game without looked forced, simply because how the level is designed. I'll certainly look for music for the game, but ogg's are practically impossible to find...
I'm not sure I'll even have the motivation to finish the level, to be honest. Damn ADD.

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Offline minmay

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Re: The Floating Island [Challenge/Puzzle?]
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2010, 04:05:04 »
Pumpkinbot's post is good, but his screenshots are not.  The first is not a properly done transition; the two tilesets clash horribly, to the point where they shouldn't be placed next to each other, period.  (Having a separate area dedicated entirely to transitioning between the two is quite possible, however.)  The second uses "far background" (non-detailed) tiles in front of "near background" (somewhat detailed) tiles, which is always bad; in a 2D game, the player perceives depth according to level of detail, so having tree silhouettes in front of detailed grassy hills will always look bad.

Keep in mind that you can learn a lot more about level design by playing great levels (the official expansion pack ones are a good bet) than you can by reading posts or tutorials, including mine.