Forum Logo Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
January 17, 2019, 06:47:47 | See new unread posts
Home Help Search Arcade Chat Login Register

nifflas.ni2.se  |  Nifflas' Support Forum  |  Released Games  |  Knytt Stories  |  Topic: Join the League of Crap Players! ;-) « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 Print
Author Topic: Join the League of Crap Players! ;-)  (Read 20171 times)
Hmpf


Total My honestly gotten stars: 12
Offline Offline


Here to make it rain.


View Profile
« on: February 20, 2010, 21:07:33 »

I started writing this in another thread but realised it was going very far off topic, so decided to make a new thread for it:

As I said, I find many popular levels unplayably hard; that is, levels that other people can play just fine and enjoy are too hard for me. And, for me, those levels do have too many enemies (and/or traps) between savepoints.

Some examples: The Core, Dark Sky of Wish Mountain, The Explore Challenge, Frozen Mountain (I can't even get past the very first screen with an enemy), Going Left, Gustav's Daughter, Harvest, Monocromatica Grotta, The Oubliette, Spiral, Teenhmifnoeafgil... and those are just ones I've downloaded & tried but haven't deleted yet.

I <3 you. Come, join me in the League of Crap Players (current membership: 1). :-)

Though I think that out of that list, Dark Sky of Wish Mountain and the Oubliette are actually manageable - *just*. I was able to beat those when I was still a lot more crap at playing KS than I am now, and found them comparable in difficulty to a hard Nifflas level - say, A Strange Dream on "Hard" setting, or An Underwater Adventure. (There's a difference, to me, between a hard Nifflas level and many other 'hard' levels - Nifflas' levels always seem fair, somehow, and tend to teach you as you go. They don't often cause me to ragequit.) The Core and Harvest I managed with minor cheating, and Gustav's Daughter I eventually managed with a *lot* of time and patience. The Explore Challenge I've given up on (and deleted), and Frozen Mountain I'm cheating on *mercilessly*, because there's just no way I could manage it otherwise. It has some rather pretty areas, which is the only reason I'm even still playing it (or trying to play it) occasionally.

The other levels you listed I haven't dared to try yet.

It's always incredibly frustrating to find levels that are really pretty (for example: The Life Ruby; or most of the output of Farik) but - for me - unbeatable... *sigh*

If it's any consolation, though: you almost inevitably get better if you keep playing KS. I still don't think I'll ever reach the skill level of some of the posters on this forum, but I definitely see a marked improvement in some areas of my KS skills, even though I never consciously set out to practice those. I recently beat (without cheating!) the incredibly hard (to me) Ascension by Farik, for example, and I certainly wouldn't have been able to do that even half a year ago. (Still wasn't exactly easy now...)

So, basically, don't delete those levels. Keep them around, and try them again from time to time, and at some point you may be surprised to discover that some of them have suddenly turned beatable.

ETA: Err, just to clarify: of course, anybody else is welcome to the League, too! ;-)

And also: please, make more easy levels, level makers! I suspect there are quite a few of 'closeted' Crap Players around, and we'd all be grateful to find more stuff to play that doesn't frustrate us at every corner... :-)

ETA2: Maybe we should turn this into a recs thread for easy levels... I don't have the time now, though, so somebody else start, please...


« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 21:16:29 by Hmpf » Logged

the Jack


Total My honestly gotten stars: 12
Offline Offline

not *that* Jack!


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2010, 03:22:39 »

JOINED. ::points at shiny new sig::

Oubliette I found a 'Let's Play' video for on YouTube, that was well enough done to satisfy my interest in experiencing the level, albeit vicariously. (Ditto Monocromatica Grotta, actually, & a couple others as well. YouTube has a nice selection of LPKS videos from various users -- and of course some that are crap, from other users -- which are also handy for walkthrough purposes, to help me figure out one point I'm stuck on so I can get to the rest of a level; and of course for showcasing Don't Eat the Mushroom for people our age* who played the games it references as kids & would thus appreciate it, but either aren't good enough at platformers [anymore] to make the jumps or just aren't interested in installing KS.) I haven't given up entirely on DSoWM -- yet -- but I'm taking a break from beating my head against it. (Instead I'm beating it against A Knytt in Time. )

I know exactly what you mean about getting better at the skill-jumps & such -- to again use DEtM as an example, when I first started playing KS levels I found jumps on two screens (and I know you know which two) almost impossible, and only the palpable awesmoeness of the level kept me from giving up in despair. (I hadn't yet discovered the options of either using the editor or watching LP vids.) Many, many tries later I finally finished the level. It may have taken me longer to get the best ending than anyone else who played it ever, though. Anyway, my point was, I'm now actually kinda good at wall-jumps! My experience playing Fancy Pants Adventure** (1 & 2) a year or two ago no doubt helps there.

I don't delete most of the levels I'm finding too hard for me, actually -- if they're any good -- because I figure if nothing else I can look at them in the editor to learn new things about what can be done, level-design-wise. And, also, in hopes that one day I might manage to improve enough to get past whatever stumbling block I'm saved at... or, failing that, skip through in the editor.

You might consider giving The Explore Challenge another go, btw. I haven't peeked in the editor to check, but I think I'm almost through the difficult screens required for the optimal ending. I just keep going back to it when I'm feeling my robot-laser Zen-est. Going back to levels later is working for me more and more -- I recently finally finished This Level Is Unfinished, which was fun and cute and only a little annoying now that I've honed my platforming skillz some.

WRT Gustav's Daughter, OTOH, though the conceit of the quasi-isometric graphics is interesting in itself, I found the storyline too forced to motivate me to go on.

There was one level that I actually just modified a couple of tiles (exactly 2, in fact) because I couldn't make the two pixel-perfection-required jumps that bottlenecked the level in my copy of the level. I know I marked the file as edited, since I expected to forget which level I'd done it to, and sure enough I don't remember which one it was. Honestly, I almost hate levels with nearly-impossible jumps more than levels with monsters I just can't get past without bursting into steam; did anyone ever find the excruciatingly exact timing required by Dragon's Lair (yes, it's been ported to the iPhone) the fun part of that game? Seriously, dying 15 times in a row because I fail to jump from the one possible safe pixel (and the jump requires a running start) is just. not. fun. Jumps like that are bad enough in levels that are only semi-linear; if that's the only way through, I wonder sometimes why the level designer didn't just put a no-climb invisible wall up halfway across the liquid hazard... and a 'win'-shift to a cutscene that's just the text "HA HA YOU LOSE" or something to that effect. Save them and me both a lot of time.

To be fair, there are a lot -- seriously, a lot -- of good KS levels that even Crap Players like us can win. The existence of the KS level editor, and this thriving community of player-designers, has probably at least tripled the number of platform-style 'games' (if we're counting KS levels as individual games) available for players like us who prefer exploration focus with maybe a modest amount of challenge. I always loved platformers, starting with good old Super Mario Bros... but even back when I was a kid with much, much better reflexes, I always felt platformers would be more fun with more exploration and less dying.

You've already made a good start on level recs for players like us, of course, in your several LJ posts of recs. C&Ping them here would be a good start.

In the meantime -- and I'm trying to avoid duplicating the recs I know you did (including for your own levels) -- here are some recs to kick things off:

  • 'Grey' by Purple Pineaple & 'Satellites' by yohji, both single-room-puzzle entries for the current/most recent Level-Design Competition. Not a lot of exploration, being as they're single-room levels... yet there's far more to explore than you would've thought would fit in a single screen. Be sure to download the 'fixed' version of 'Grey' as it's significantly more attractive (that's all that was 'fixed'.)
  • 'Juni's Paradise Garden' by stiggits says it's a single room, but actually contains two different rooms plus ten cutscene images. It's intended as a tutorial for a very nifty effect that's possible with custom objects in KS, but it's also stunningly beautiful.

More once I have your recs in front of me, Hmpf, so as to avoid duplication. Though... iirc you only annotated some of your recs, so we could divvy those up for saying stuff about in the Official LoCP Recs List....

(Are you sure we shouldn't make a separate topic for 'Level Recs from the League of Crap Players'?)


*I seem to remember seeing you say somewhere you're in your 30s...? I am, also. I first fell in love with level-editing games with Lode Runner, and even more so Stuart Smith's Adventure Construction Set, for the Apple II way back in the early-to-mid-'80s. Heh, I even made a platform-style game with ACS despite the fact its gameplay engine was set up for top-down.

**If you haven't played FPA yet, RUN DON'T WALK here; you'll love it, if your KS level preferences & fondness for the Nevermore series are any indication. Yes, that link goes to World 2, which is the sequel. Go ahead & play it first; it's more polished & more fun.


edited because I realised I forgot the second asterisk*
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 13:32:19 by the Jack » Logged


Actually, it's eggplant.
AClockworkLemon


Total My honestly gotten stars: 2
Offline Offline


-Inactive-


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2010, 04:18:40 »

Mind if I join the League of Almost-but-not-quite crap players. I would have been 100% crap, but I have been practicing Supergrin :DD
Logged

I'm not dead. Not entirely. And yes, I'm embarrassed by most of the posts I made here.
:hiddenstar: - From Pumpkinbot
the Jack


Total My honestly gotten stars: 12
Offline Offline

not *that* Jack!


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2010, 17:56:19 »

Okay, no, a few more recs -- though I'm still wondering if there shouldn't be a separate thread for LoCP Recs, and this one for ...general discussion & membership?

Anyway. GO PLAY THESE:

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
(spoilered for length only)

Probably some of these are going to duplicate Hmpf's recs, but I was just in a level-recommending frame of mind. (Also the sun came up and so it's again time to put aside playing the darker levels until tonight.)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 00:19:53 by the Jack » Logged


Actually, it's eggplant.
Hmpf


Total My honestly gotten stars: 12
Offline Offline


Here to make it rain.


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2010, 22:59:25 »

Wow, the Jack, you're like a lean, mean posting machine! :D Wish I had time to respond with a few recs of my own, but boring Real Life stuff (well, I admit, and a bit of level building) interfered, today.

Everybody who feels rather a bit too 'challenged' by popular and much-recommended levels is free to join, of course! The more the merrier!

So, welcome, AClockworkLemon and the Jack!

I should probably change my sig now, too... *g*
Logged

AClockworkLemon


Total My honestly gotten stars: 2
Offline Offline


-Inactive-


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2010, 08:14:04 »

the Awesome. Made by Sabata.

Code:
[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/2s626p0.png[/IMG]
just a bit of fun...
Logged

I'm not dead. Not entirely. And yes, I'm embarrassed by most of the posts I made here.
:hiddenstar: - From Pumpkinbot
pumpkin


Total My honestly gotten stars: 1
Offline Offline


Breton Blunt Conjurer


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2010, 19:41:09 »

I gotta join, because I've been playing since 2008, and i still can't even finish A Strange Dream! This is definitely a league I'll like being in!
Logged

Many a hand has scaled the grand old face of the plateau,
Some belong to strangers and some to folks you know,
Holy ghosts and talk show hosts are planted in the sand,
To beautify the foothills and shake the many hands.
-The Meat Puppets
Hmpf


Total My honestly gotten stars: 12
Offline Offline


Here to make it rain.


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2010, 20:41:37 »

Welcome, pumpkin. And thanksl, AClockworkLemon! :-)
Logged

AClockworkLemon


Total My honestly gotten stars: 2
Offline Offline


-Inactive-


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2010, 10:58:56 »

Ok, I wish to make a serious

Oil, by Diago. This is [environmental], and it is truly BEAUTIFUL. It would have to be my favorite KS level ever. You will only die a few times, and only really at the begging whilst you are getting used to it. I demand (well, not really) that you give it a go!
Logged

I'm not dead. Not entirely. And yes, I'm embarrassed by most of the posts I made here.
:hiddenstar: - From Pumpkinbot
Headgrinder


Total My honestly gotten stars: 35
Offline Offline


Smart Steel Polisher


View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2010, 17:32:49 »

Ah Ha!  I've finally found my home on the Knytts Stories forums.

Thanks Hmpf for recommending this thread to me.  Real life is especially busy in my current stage of life, so I won't be posting often, but I look forward to playing any games the LCP would recommend.  Myself, I'm working on a large plot driven easy level, but I'm looking forward to any easy small competitions anyone would like to have so as to better get my feet wet.

Logged

GrayFace


Total My honestly gotten stars: 54
Offline Offline



View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2010, 18:26:45 »

"Going Left" shouldn't be in the list in the first post IMO. It's definitely Lunatic.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 18:45:32 by GrayFace » Logged

Pick Yer Poison


Total My honestly gotten stars: 3
Offline Offline


One cool cat.


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2010, 22:43:14 »

I'm gonna join you guys in spirit, but not add the banner, since I'm not really a crap player (I can breeze through most Normal-Hard levels), but I think there should be more Easy levels out there that focus on the immersive experience, rather than Lunatic levels that focus on hair-pulling frustration. In short, when I play KS, I like levels that remind me of why I liked Knytt, instead of levels that remind me of why I hate 2D platformer levels where every enemy fires nukes.

On that note, I'm gonna recommend a few levels to those who prefer levels where you needn't walk around every corner expecting to die and like to stop and smell...err, look at the roses.

Logged
bulbapuck


Total My honestly gotten stars: 24
Offline Offline


One day hoping to become Venopuck


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2010, 23:19:41 »

I joined, great league! I feel right at home :D

I'm very surprised nobody has posted what could very well be the best, and probably most famous enviromental level.

Don't Eat the Mushroom by UncleSporky

If you haven't played this level yet, play it! 8)
Logged

Emma fell down a well - Enviromental KS level inspired by Salmoneous/Elder
Check out My "Let's Play" channel, I upload fairly regularly and am trying to improve.
Aptequar


Total My honestly gotten stars: 0
Offline Offline


Energy is Eternal Delight


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2010, 01:00:37 »

I'd like to nominate myself for this. :P

I'm relatively good at jumping and things, the part where I fall down is in reflex based challenges. The fireflower is an instant stopping point for me, for example. I hate those things.

I definitely agree with PYP that the focus in KS should be on atmosphere, and that there is a tendency to make harder levels. Nifflas made an interesting point on that in his lecture - I much subscribe to the same view.
Logged

Troi'r wythnos yn flwyddyn, troi'r flwyddyn yn dair.
love, light and hope The People We Never Met
and it's equilibrium The Elevator Beneath The Valve
pumpkin


Total My honestly gotten stars: 1
Offline Offline


Breton Blunt Conjurer


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2010, 01:17:37 »

I joined, great league! I feel right at home :D

I'm very surprised nobody has posted what could very well be the best, and probably most famous enviromental level.

Don't Eat the Mushroom by UncleSporky

If you haven't played this level yet, play it! 8)

bulbapuck, I love you. I'd totally forgotten about that level, and it kicks the most ass in the most ways possible. Thank you for reminding me of it!
Logged

Many a hand has scaled the grand old face of the plateau,
Some belong to strangers and some to folks you know,
Holy ghosts and talk show hosts are planted in the sand,
To beautify the foothills and shake the many hands.
-The Meat Puppets
Pages: [1] 2 3 Print 
nifflas.ni2.se  |  Nifflas' Support Forum  |  Released Games  |  Knytt Stories  |  Topic: Join the League of Crap Players! ;-) « previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines