"The Morbid Mill" Video

Hey all,

If you remember or heard of my Knytt Stories project called "The Morbid Mill" -- it was a college project my friends Ian and Thomas were assisting me in. The project was voted best in the class and the teacher, Danial Young, wanted me to put together a video to be looped in their lobby's TVs along with other student works

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4sXpKweHY8

I wanted to share the video with you all as well, perhaps get some feedback. Please be professional and respectful

This is my first knytt Stories project, so you'll notice all the art and tilesets are custom, we focused on the gameplay first and ran out of time, but it came out well regardless

A download link for the game will be provided at a later date if anyone is interested
The game is catagorized as "Hard/Very Hard, Challenge"
The video does NOT show the story or cutscenes we added in, just the gameplay for show
All the music and most of the backgrounds are custom, the tilesets are the only things I left default -- other than the boat that EgoMassive graciously let me use

Please also note the video itself is not finished, but will be at a later date
Thank you!

Loks nice. You have managed to use default tilesets to create a visually nice level, well done!

Loks nice. You have managed to use default tilesets to create a visually nice level, well done!

Thanks! Someone else mentioned that as well, I remember designing 2D and 3D maps for Amaze Entertainment years back, I guess that experience stuck with me

I did, however, borrow a graphic from EgoMassive which may be the only custom tileset -- though I DID use custom backgrounds and plenty of custom music

this looks like a challenging level!

this looks like a challenging level!

oh, it is, haha 

I gave the game beta to 20 friends, 10 of them are NOT gamers -- none of those completed it, they gave up less than half way through if at the very start

5 of them were casual gamers, only 2 finished -- and it took them 2 or 3 hours of gameplay

5 of them were hardcore gamers like myself, all of them finished in 45 minuites to an hour
Thus it was catagorized as "Hard/Very Hard"

5 of them were hardcore gamers like myself, all of them finished in 45 minuites to an hour
Thus it was catagorized as "Hard/Very Hard"

O...M...G!!!!!!!!!! 

Just watched the video... and I think that if you search in a dictionary for the definition of "Lunatic", you will find this level 

Quote from: DustinCartwright on February 17, 2010, 22:23:30

5 of them were hardcore gamers like myself, all of them finished in 45 minuites to an hour
Thus it was catagorized as "Hard/Very Hard"

O...M...G!!!!!!!!!! 

Just watched the video... and I think that if you search in a dictionary for the definition of "Lunatic", you will find this level 

Aw, it's not that hard, haha -- well, maybe in one or two spots...

For lack of a better term, I call it Seems-easier-because-of-practice Syndrome.  It's when the author of a level thinks their level is easier than it actually is because the author has played it over and over in the process of making it.  Believe me, it effects all of us.

You need more savepoints.  Enemy-based challenges in a room shouldn't require repeating.  If players have to repeat frustrating, luck-based challenges because they got killed in the next room, you can expect that several will just say "to hell with this level" and quit.
The few exceptions to this rule would be levels such as Spiral.  Sometimes replaying rooms causes you to revise your strategy and find more reliable ways to beat it.  But your level needs to have freedom of choice for this to work, and it also must be carefully structured to invite players to try different things out. But even then, it's hit and miss.  This is especially the case if it's a big level, because after enough difficult rooms, you'll invoke a wide range of negative reactions, like "this level is a waste of my time," or "I just can't do this."

Places where I think you need save points.

1:07 - You need a save point in the little tunnel under the spike walls.  Otherwise, I think most players will feel themselves under a lot of pressure trying to jumping up between drips, especially with that ghost nearby.
1:10 - You need a save point at the beginning of the room with the red key (unless there's one at the end of the previous room).  Using the umbrella against the red spray cannons tends to be a game of luck; sometimes, bullets come under it.
2:24 - For the love of all things holy, how can you do this to the player?  There had better be a save point before this!
2:54 - You need a savepoint in the middle, so unless there isn't already one under the power up, put one there.  A long laser field like this is tedium at best, and you shouldn't force the player to start it all over if they screw up .

For lack of a better term, I call it Seems-easier-because-of-practice Syndrome.  It's when the author of a level thinks their level is easier than it actually is because the author has played it over and over in the process of making it.  Believe me, it effects all of us.

You need more savepoints.  Enemy-based challenges in a room shouldn't require repeating.  If players have to repeat frustrating, luck-based challenges because they got killed in the next room, you can expect that several will just say "to hell with this level" and quit.
The few exceptions to this rule would be levels such as Spiral.  Sometimes replaying rooms causes you to revise your strategy and find more reliable ways to beat it.  But your level needs to have freedom of choice for this to work, and it also must be carefully structured to invite players to try different things out. But even then, it's hit and miss.  This is especially the case if it's a big level, because after enough difficult rooms, you'll invoke a wide range of negative reactions, like "this level is a waste of my time," or "I just can't do this."

Places where I think you need save points.

1:07 - You need a save point in the little tunnel under the spike walls.  Otherwise, I think most players will feel themselves under a lot of pressure trying to jumping up between drips, especially with that ghost nearby.
1:10 - You need a save point at the beginning of the room with the red key (unless there's one at the end of the previous room).  Using the umbrella against the red spray cannons tends to be a game of luck; sometimes, bullets come under it.
2:24 - For the love of all things holy, how can you do this to the player?  There had better be a save point before this!
2:54 - You need a savepoint in the middle, so unless there isn't already one under the power up, put one there.  A long laser field like this is tedium at best, and you shouldn't force the player to start it all over if they screw up .

I understand and these things have been addressed in the game, though it may not seem like it in the video --working for Amaze, we often forget who we are designing the game for and it becomes second nature ot us, I've given the game to about 20 people to test and used their feedback to progress the design; thus far everyone seems satisified with the project

It is made to be very hard, and only the most extreme and dedicated gamers finish it (which has only been 5 so far). Your points are very valid -- and I thank you for mentioning them, and they have been addressed  
Though the video doesn't show the entire game, or the screens before or after the ones shown in the video, but I know these issues have been addressed for sure
Also many parts are optional, the Super-Jump and Hologram items aren't required to finish the game though they greatly help in many of the puzzles and platforming that the player will face ahead -- but they don't have to accept the most difficult challenges that lead them to these optional items

Though again, I thank you for your honest and detailed review

Sorry, but I'm going to be honest with you: this level looks bland and unprofessional.
I mean, really, some of the rooms are just a bunch of tiles repeated over and over to a gradient background with a bunch of the same enemies thrown in, and it doesn't even look like it would provide an interesting challenge.

Here are a few tips I'd like to share with you:

• Use tiles properly, or don't use them at all, or maybe get someone good at art to make custom tilesets, because just tiling squares everywhere (I found this annoying at numerous points), or cutting out bits of a statue (like at 2:14) isn't very pleasing to look at.  Also, you might also want to revise your background choice a bit [3:02 (the colors clash, it looks boring, the uniformly-moving but oddly-spaced enemies look unnatural and it's just a simple jump to pass them) and such].
• Rooms which require the player to pause and time their actions should be short; perhaps mingle the laser timing with some great fun [if you can manage that] or just cut it out.
• Don't use background tiles in the foreground I mean really come on now they look awful and you have to do funky jumping to climb them.
• I'm sure I have more complaints but I'm getting bored so I won't try to find them.

And for future videos, you might want to cut down on the screen distortion, unregistered hypercam 2, and metal.

Wow.. If it weren't for the graphics, I might have thought the video was a completely different game. It was so compressed and sped up.

Just watched the video... and I think that if you search in a dictionary for the definition of "Lunatic", you will find this level 

Which part? I'd say it looks very hard at best.

Sorry, but I'm going to be honest with you: this level looks bland and unprofessional.
I mean, really, some of the rooms are just a bunch of tiles repeated over and over to a gradient background with a bunch of the same enemies thrown in, and it doesn't even look like it would provide an interesting challenge.

Here are a few tips I'd like to share with you:

• Use tiles properly, or don't use them at all, or maybe get someone good at art to make custom tilesets, because just tiling squares everywhere (I found this annoying at numerous points), or cutting out bits of a statue (like at 2:14) isn't very pleasing to look at.  Also, you might also want to revise your background choice a bit [3:02 (the colors clash, it looks boring, the uniformly-moving but oddly-spaced enemies look unnatural and it's just a simple jump to pass them) and such].
• Rooms which require the player to pause and time their actions should be short; perhaps mingle the laser timing with some great fun [if you can manage that] or just cut it out.
• Don't use background tiles in the foreground I mean really come on now they look awful and you have to do funky jumping to climb them.
• I'm sure I have more complaints but I'm getting bored so I won't try to find them.

And for future videos, you might want to cut down on the screen distortion, unregistered hypercam 2, and metal.

For the time give to us and the lack of personal, we did amazing, you didn't factor in that I didn't have limitless amount of time, this was a college project and it was voted to be the best project in the school  -we made the best use of our time and people avaliable which is something that we must do in the professional world.

Of course I knew I was going to get someone like you who thought they knew everything, it happens, but I'm going to reassure you that your notes are well taken, but you are the ONLY person to complain about them -- not sure if you really mean it or you just need something to hate on, but when I said "be honest" I didn't mean "be a dick." Besides, the limited function of the Knytt Stories Engine combined with my lack of budget for a real video-recorder makes my team very resourcesful in the tools we did use to achieve the product we did. Not to mention it's our first Knytt Stories game, if we had more time we'd be able to do the animated cutscenes, voice acting, custom tilesets, etc. that we wanted to do, and knew how to do. Should also factor in that this is a Challenge/Puzzle game, not an Enviromental game where graphics are made to impress, this game was focused on the gameplay and we didn't have the time to worry about each screen looking graphically amazing which would have been a waste of our time.

And I personally love metal music, and if you don't that's fine but you can't let that be a reason to judge it, but people tell me the music in the game fits very well to the action and fast-pace nature of the game, and the creepier music we used in the slower parts of the game, they said, was also very fitting. So before you actually judge anything at all, why not play the game first. The video isn't even finished if you knew how to read

Sorry for my hostility but your review wasn't fair to me or my team considering the actual hurdels we had to jump and the obstacles we had to pass to get what we had in such little time and personnal -- ALSO considering we have two other classes besides that one, and some of us actually have jobs and other responsibilites to take care of on top of the time limit given to us

In my opinion, your entire review to me was quite "unprofessional"
but luckily the world doesn't revolve around what you think, so I'm not too worried about it, though you could have stated these points in a more professional and respectable manner, I can tell you in the professional business this attitude is not tolerated what-so-ever

Quote from: rrc2soft on February 17, 2010, 23:19:21

Just watched the video... and I think that if you search in a dictionary for the definition of "Lunatic", you will find this level 

Which part? I'd say it looks very hard at best.

Maybe it is because I suck at hardcore games - when I watched the video, I got really scared  .

Quote from: Purple Pineapple on February 19, 2010, 08:13:13

Quote from: rrc2soft on February 17, 2010, 23:19:21

Just watched the video... and I think that if you search in a dictionary for the definition of "Lunatic", you will find this level 

Which part? I'd say it looks very hard at best.

Maybe it is because I suck at hardcore games - when I watched the video, I got really scared  .

Haha, the game was intended for people who love a challenge, and it does look pretty intimidating no doubt, with practice though it isn't quite that hard, when I provide a download link you should give it a try

I honestly have to agree with Mr. Monkey and say this level looks rather bland and uninteresting. The only draw seems to be the difficulty. It really doesn't take that long to make a fun, nice looking KS level. But how much time did you have? I mean, if you had only a week or two, it would be another story.