Mafia 6 - OVER

Oh nuts. Forgot the bb tags.
Vote: LimeLemon

I have already said why I think Zetta is suspicious.
Also, the reason I fos:ed Razz in the start was because of the same reason everyone random votes in the start. I just didn't want to be as extreme as to vote for nothing.

I have already said why I think Zetta is suspicious.

But what convinced you of voting all of a sudden?

Quote from: Lunar

...and if Limelemon is town then we could say that Limelemon isn't playing selfishly enough and is therefore kinda breaking the game.

Could you explain exactly what you mean by this?

Well.
If LL is scum, then he is playing with his side's best interests in mind (selfishly), because he is (presumably) buddying up with a townie -- Salmoneous, or attempting to defend his fellow mafia member (which is unlikely, but I digress). In this case, LL isn't screwing up the game by being random and self destructive. If he fails in defending Salmoneous is another story entirely.

If LL is town, then he isn't playing selfishly. He is buddying up with someone of whom he has no idea of his role, and has defended Salmoneous very dubiously. Why would a townie do this? In this case, LL is screwing up the game by being random and self destructive. It's strange. It ruins the game because the order of things is exploded.

Why is the order of things important to a town victory? Think of it like this.
Let there be a certain behaviour which is: disregarding logical arguments, teaming up with people without due warrant, throwing votes around randomly and pushing lynches without really thinking. If the town behaves like that, how are we to discriminate them from the Mafia, which is forced by self preservation to behave in this manner, at times?

That behaviour is not necessarily scummy and isn't a scumtell always, but it should be.
Anyway.

I can't see how you see Zetta suspicious at this point, seeing as this is the first mafia game he has played on the forum and having no other games to base him off of.

Hm. Firstly, who do you mean by 'you'? Salmon and LL?
It is hasty if we dismiss suspicion of Zetta because he or she happens to be new to the game, at least on this forum.

@Lunar, why are you setting up a chain lynch here?

What I meant was that for a D1 lynch, my first preference would be a Salmoneous lynch. My second preference would be a LL lynch.
Expanding on that, LL may be in the process of overtaking Salmoneous. Every time LL is asked a question he is evasive and doesn't say a lot.

Bored is quiet, and his usual post of writing a sentence about each player didn't really bring anything new to the discussion.

Dataflashsabot is gone?

@All: Had you been forced to lynch someone now, the lynched being solely your choice, who would each of you choose?

If I were to lynch someone right now, I'd lynch Limelemon.

I'll post again with my thoughts, got some stuff to do.

Okay.

First off, I said that Salmoneous seemed suspicious. I would lynch him, but since Limelemon's defensive of him, It'd be better off lynching him instead.

1. We lynch Salmoneous and he's a Mafia.
Yay! Next we go ahead and lynch Limelemon.
2. We lynch Salmoneous and he's a townie.
We lose a townie, and we still aren't sure if Limelemon is a over-defensive townie or a mafia trying to confuse us.

3. We lynch Limelemon and he's a Mafia.
Yay! Now Salmoneous gets lynched.
4. We lynch Limelemon and he's a townie.
Yes, we lose a townie, but we can guess that Salmoneous is a townie, as no one would defend someone for no reason.

Blah blah blah opinions.

Well, this is certainly interesting.

LimeLemon seems as though he's dodging rather a lot of questions. While I'm tempted to switch to him just out of spite for his vote towards me, I still think Salmoneous seems suspicious enough that I'll hold my vote for the moment. While shawnachu provides some excellent points, I can't deny the possibility that he could be Kira mafia along with Salmoneous and trying to draw attention away from his partner. Even assuming shawnachu is a townie, that sort of thinking is too close to a false dichotomy for my taste. At this point, I'm not going to change my vote, but I'm about one more dodgy post from LimeLemon away from switching.

tl;dr: no change, just posting to say I'm still here

A quick comment.

I disagree with the linking of Limelemon for his minor defence of Salmoneous.  (Thats not to say I particularly like LL's wishy-washyness). Also it is a common scum flaw to over-defend others (as you know they are innocent). I believe that mafia are also less likely to buddy here, the fear of being linked to their buddies after earlier games had lead to people doing the exact opposite (bussing).
I guess that LL and Salmon are not both scum.

unvote, vote Limelemon, wishy-washy, evasive answers and a good dose of gut feeling.

(I'll comment on more where I have time to read properly, in about 24hrs or so).

Two more votes and I'm going down... blahness.

1. We lynch Salmoneous and he's a Mafia.
Yay! Next we go ahead and lynch Limelemon.
2. We lynch Salmoneous and he's a townie.
We lose a townie, and we still aren't sure if Limelemon is a over-defensive townie or a mafia trying to confuse us.

Why would we lynch LimeLemon if salmoneous turned out to be mafia? We wouldn't be sure LL is more than an over-defensive townie anyway.

3. We lynch Limelemon and he's a Mafia.
Yay! Now Salmoneous gets lynched.
4. We lynch Limelemon and he's a townie.
Yes, we lose a townie, but we can guess that Salmoneous is a townie, as no one would defend someone for no reason.

Nope. We can't guess that salmoneous is town just because LL turns out to be. LL wouldn't have any more reason to think that salmoneous is town than the rest of us, and he might unknowingly have defended a mafia player.

@Bored
'Sup?

Life.
Sorry for not posting for a while.
Right now, I find Salmoneous and LL most suspicious, though it strikes me as funny that Zetta has stuck with that vote for so long...
I guess I'll take a vote now, and pray that it is a good un.
Vote: LimeLemon for the already posted reasons.

Shawnachu's post #51 is really weird and interesting.

First: Why so much conviction that if Limelemon or Salmoneous flips mafia, we should immediately go on and lynch the other one?

4. We lynch Limelemon and he's a townie.
Yes, we lose a townie, but we can guess that Salmoneous is a townie, as no one would defend someone for no reason.

Your argument is (and correct me if I'm wrong) that if Limelemon were town, he wouldn't possibly defend someone he didn't know to be town, therefore Salmoneous is town.

I think it has been demonstrated that Limelemon isn't even that sure about Salmoneous' role and is more pushing for neutral treatment of him, and not some kind of reactionary Zetta-style vote of him and that. His arguments, regardless of what he wanted to say with them, haven't really stood up, and he hasn't backed them up in his most recent posts.

So no, we can't assume Salmoneous is town if Limelemon is because Limelemon both couldn't know and doesn't know, at least not enough for us to 'guess that Salmoneous is a townie' as you put it. The fact that the theme of your post can be summed up by the opinion 'Salmoneous and Limelemon have the same role' seems to be counterproductive in the sense that it feeds this false dichotomy, which very well may suit the mafia down to the ground. If you do this consciously or not is a complicated matter, but it's clear you haven't really taken the time to look at other players.

First off, I said that Salmoneous seemed suspicious. I would lynch him, but since Limelemon's defensive of him, It'd be better off lynching him instead.

FOS and sceptre of quaint argumentation goes to Shawnachu.

Bored also feeds the stillness of the LL, Salmoneous (and to a lesser extent Zetta) status quo. He hasn't moved the game forward in any of his posts, and puts his vote, very dubiously, on Limelemon for reasons (asccording to Bored) previously stated. Not by him. This is not good.

Bored.

More, later, maybe.