The Level Designer's Trap

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Offline Zetta

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The Level Designer's Trap
« on: August 27, 2009, 05:10:03 »
ITT: Things to stay away from when making your level

-Lack of save points (especially bad when there's a puzzle or a particularly difficult jump involved)
-Inconsistent internal logic (on some screens, you can walk on the clouds, on others, the same tiles are used for background clouds)
-Bank 6, Object 5, a.k.a. that freaking green chomper thing (especially when combined with either or both of the above)
-Backgrounds that are so busy you can't tell what you can and can't stand on (this often goes hand-in-hand with #2)
If I sound like I know what I'm talking about, you probably misread my post.

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Offline googoogjoob

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Re: The Level Designer's Trap
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2009, 05:41:55 »
-Screens that are too busy in general; Knytt and Nifflas's KS levels are pretty minimalistic for the most part, both graphically and design-wise. Of course, this is subjective and depends on context- a maze in the air vents of a futuristic spaceship can get away with being way more complex and fiddly than a meadow or a mountain.
-Levels which are unfair; that is, levels where luck is more important than skill in winning. (Like if the level is packed with random-shooting monsters that are harmless half the time and incredibly dangerous the other half.)
-Inconsistent graphics; like shoving two tilesets with totally different aesthetics into the same screen and then acting like they fit together, or abruptly shifting from one tileset to another from screen to screen.
-SGEs in general, and perspective errors in particular: I can't count how many otherwise decent levels I've played that are undermined by little graphical errors. One of the most common comes from not paying close attention to the layering of waterfalls- for example, where Juni can walk in front of a waterfall that, on the tile below, goes in front of the ground, without the foaming waterfall base tile as a buffer.

-Bank 6, Object 5, a.k.a. that freaking green chomper thing (especially when combined with either or both of the above)

This object isn't so much a problem as the way it gets used. Way too many levels have screens where much or all of the floor is covered with these guys as a cheap way to stop the player from going further in that direction. This object works best when used sparingly, like in A Strange Dream- not often enough that you aren't surprised when you find one, but often enough that you know to be alert to avoid them.

Now: someone needs to make a level with all of these horrors in it. (Though I can name a few already-existing levels that have most or all of them.)
good bye

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Offline KG

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Re: The Level Designer's Trap
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2009, 05:44:53 »
- Purposeless/empty screens, especially when coupled with the lack of a run powerup.
- Inconsistent shifts in the same context (some activating automatically and some not).
- Ubiquitous kill tiles, especially when there is no warning to their presence.
- Traps in which the player cannot escape without committing suicide.
- Voids and wall-swims.
- Lack of testing.
- Too much soda.

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Offline Pick Yer Poison

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Re: The Level Designer's Trap
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2009, 06:27:16 »
  • Not using music: Sometimes a level may seem better silent in theory, but more often than not using music leads to a better final product.
  • Incorrect level difficulties: Usually this is not a problem, but if a player goes into a level thinking it'll be an Easy one, and then has to deal with a Hard level, they will most likely give up. Likewise, if someone downloads a Lunatic level only to find out that it's actually Medium difficulty, they probably won't even bother to finish it.
  • Terrible intro and outro: I don't care if you can't write or draw for beans, you can still do better than a few mousedrawn black and white MSPaint images that only vaguely resemble Juni and some lines of dialogue about how Juni wants to save the world.
  • Using only the default tilesets: While this may be fine for your challenge levels, people who play levels looking for scenery expect good visuals, and the default tilesets are far too overused.

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Offline Razzorman

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Re: The Level Designer's Trap
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2009, 09:05:34 »
  • Not using music: Sometimes a level may seem better silent in theory, but more often than not using music leads to a better final product.
I disagree. Sometimes, less actually is more. It all depends on what kind of atmosphere you are trying to achieve.
My only star: :hiddenstar:

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Offline Zetta

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Re: The Level Designer's Trap
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2009, 22:38:46 »
I disagree. Sometimes, less actually is more. It all depends on what kind of atmosphere you are trying to achieve.
I agree, but in my opinion, taking a song and using it as custom *music* instead of ambiance is the worst of both worlds.

Also: overuse of common tilesets. Yes, Dr. Cliche's Underwater Lab is really cool. That doesn't mean everyone has to use it.
If I sound like I know what I'm talking about, you probably misread my post.

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Offline NESgamer190

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Re: The Level Designer's Trap
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2009, 23:28:53 »
Other traps:
enemy inside juni syndrome
Simply put, starting the player inside of a killer object.  NEVER advisable, even if it's a trap or a joke level.
Sloping up to the next screen
This will lead to a wallswim, which is HIGHLY undesirable.
Duplicate items
Unless it's a puzzle of sorts (I.E: grab the right yellow key or fall in a pit), it's redundant.
Broken shifts
If it's broken, either fix it, or make a sign to explain this is the end of beta or something like that.
"moving sign"
Using more sign objects (not sign area) to wind up making a moving sign.  Excusable if the signs are far apart.
Using data file for custom stuff
NO! NO! NO!  *facepalms on the thought of this being commited*  This makes levels unplayable lest everyone changes their data tilesets/bgs/ambience/music.  Absolutely NO excuses for this.
Shifting juni out of a projector or umbrella
In the case of umbrella, make an upward vent to prevent the player from passing the shift with umbrella out.  Otherwise, make a cutscene that saves.
Cutscene restart
Make it save.  Simplest fix yet.
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Offline minmay

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Re: The Level Designer's Trap
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2009, 23:41:50 »
I no longer bother to download levels which don't have both all-exclusive tilesets and all-custom music.  (I should point out that by "exclusive" I mean "made specifically for the level," and by "custom" I merely mean "not the default tracks that I've heard two thousand times.")

I've seen the default tilesets and the good public tilesets used and overused to the point where the sight of them annoys me.  I consider the act of laying out screens and actually designing a level to be trivial at its best, and thus the meat of any KS level is its custom content.

This is an attitude that I developed rather quickly after releasing my second level to the public.  I looked at my level and at other levels and realized that, on the whole, they felt the same.

Hence my "new" (and the quotes are very appropriate here as work on it started two years ago) level that I may never finish due to the sheer quantity of work that it encompasses, combined with my general laziness.  But to me, it's better than releasing something else that's cruddy.



My advice to any new users of the editor: make levels with default content, but don't release them.  Eventually you'll get tired of making levels that all look and feel the same, and will want to make custom tilesets and such; that time is when you should start doing so, and hopefully not be wearied by having "too many levels out there already."

But then again, that's just my advice.  It's obvious that my opinions don't coincide with those of other people here, especially with regards to custom KS levels.

-----

And as far as things that annoy me aside from unoriginal tilesets/music: not knowing where to go.  I hate completely linear levels, but I also hate having to wander, not exploring the world, but rather looking for the next arbitrarily placed powerup.  Levels should point you in the right direction (but not too much or they do indeed become linear).  For instance, in A Strange Dream, if you don't yet have the climb powerup, your surroundings are shaped such that you'll be funneled gradually towards it regardless of what direction you go.

Also, the use of the retracting spikes in the Traps bank is usually unnecessary and unfitting; prefer drawing spikes into your tileset, and putting kill objects on those.  It looks much, much better in most circumstances, and falling into retractable spikes that you didn't know would be there is second only to rampant SandCrocs in terms of annoying things that constantly crop up in poorly conceived level designs.



NESgamer, those sound more like crippling, playability-ruining problems than nagging flaws.

Re: The Level Designer's Trap
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2009, 01:08:25 »
Now: someone needs to make a level with all of these horrors in it. (Though I can name a few already-existing levels that have most or all of them.)
Oh my god! I have to do that!
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Offline Hmpf

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Re: The Level Designer's Trap
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2009, 03:26:01 »
Now, I try to keep my levels free of deadly critters and traps in general, but I have to say, I like the big green thing that hides in the ground and eats you; it's probably the only way of dying in KS that makes me laugh. (It's the silly "thlurp" sound effect, I think. Plus, the happy grin on its face.)

Granted, if it's overused it gets old, but so does just about anything.

Also, while as a trained designer I absolutely do get minimalism as an aesthetic principle, I have to admit to a certain fondness for cluttered screens - if they're cluttered in an aesthetically pleasing way. There's clutter, and then there's clutter...

I also believe that an original result can be achieved with 'unoriginal' means, although, admittedly, that is probably more difficult. Also, IMO, sometimes it can be worthwhile to just do something that has been done before, but do it really, really well.

Granted, I'm not really in any position to make authoritative announcements on what is good or bad KS level design, as I'm a relative newbie.


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Offline Gorfinhofin

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Re: The Level Designer's Trap
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2009, 03:32:25 »
-Using invisible tiles to block off voids. Blech.


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Re: The Level Designer's Trap
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2009, 04:56:59 »
-Using invisible tiles to block off voids. Blech.
Or worse, using invisible tiles to block voids, which you can climb to reach different voids.
Lurk more.

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Offline Zetta

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Re: The Level Designer's Trap
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2009, 08:43:00 »
My advice to any new users of the editor: make levels with default content, but don't release them.  Eventually you'll get tired of making levels that all look and feel the same, and will want to make custom tilesets and such; that time is when you should start doing so, and hopefully not be wearied by having "too many levels out there already."
Honestly, I care more about level design than I do about tilesets. I completely agree with you on the issue of music, though, primarily because I can't stand the standard music's failure to loop.

Oh my god! I have to do that!
I'd buy download it.

I like the big green thing that hides in the ground and eats you; it's probably the only way of dying in KS that makes me laugh. (It's the silly "thlurp" sound effect, I think. Plus, the happy grin on its face.)
I hadn't noticed. :P
Granted, I'm not really in any position to make authoritative announcements on what is good or bad KS level design, as I'm a relative newbie.
Hey, that's hardly stopping me.

-Using invisible tiles to block off voids. Blech.
Yeah, it's lazy. Yeah, it breaks immersion horribly. Do I still do it occasionally? Yeah, but at least I make sure to make them no-climb.



EDIT: A new one just occurred to me: not starting the player off with the run powerup and then forcing the player to go through several screens of sign-exposition and long walking sections. Pointless screens are annoying with the run powerup, but without it, they're unforgivable.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 08:44:37 by Zetta »
If I sound like I know what I'm talking about, you probably misread my post.

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Offline Razzorman

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Re: The Level Designer's Trap
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2009, 09:02:11 »
Using no-climbs and/or no-jumps to block of voids.
It incredibly annoying when you find a wall that you should be able to climb or jump around, but you can't, because the level designer could not be bothered to draw the wall properly in the first place.
My only star: :hiddenstar:

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Offline LPChip

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Re: The Level Designer's Trap
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2009, 14:14:03 »
Using the same idea through your entire level consistently, even worse if your level is big. After 20 screens or so, the player has seen it already and is bored. He'll not have fun playing your level and have a bad memory of it. He most likelly will not play any other level you make.

In other words, entertain your player throughout the entire level.
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