Current Forum Standings

   * Be friendly towards everyone. Regardless what other people say to you, I'd like to ask you to be friendly whereever possible. It will make this forum a nice place to be.
This is never enforced, but I'm not sure it needs to be.  Everyone here is fairly nice even when they're mean.

I have seen it enforced. Sometimes it is necessary to do so, even on this forum.

   * Respect everyone's opinion. Everyone has the right to have their opinion. If you don't agree with someone, then it's okay to say what your opinion is as long as you repect theirs.
I honestly don't think this needs to be seperate from the first rule.  It doesn't even seem like a real rule.

Agreed.

   * Do not curse using bad words. It is not allowed to excessively curse using bad words, particulary those that are aimed towards other people. You can say "damn" or "shit" when you do something wrong etc, but not: "you are a @#$##$^#".
This strikes me as an odd rule as the usual reason for avoiding swearing is to avoid offending the parents of younger forumers.  Furthermore, I have never seen this enforced.

You probably haven't seen it enforced because those posts get deleted instantly without warnings.

   * Do not provoke a conflict that could lead to cursing. Do not say something where your aim is to upset the other person. That person could get mad, and start to curse (see above point).
"Do not do X, or someone might violate that other rule."  This rule is poorly phrased; it should just say "no trolling" and leave it at that.  But I have no particular complaints about this rule other than its wording.

Newbs might not know what trolling means. I think the wording is fine.

   * An Administrator can overrule a moderator. If a dispute becomes big, and a moderator says something, an admin can still overrule that if it is deemed necessary.
This shouldn't need to happen, period.  If it does, it speaks poorly for both the moderators and the administration that chose them.

I believe this is a "just in case" rule. If it does happen, its good to have rules for it.

   * Don't post things that are obviously not suitable for children. This forum is visited by a lot of young people, so please respect that fact and don't post things that can be disturbing for children. If you post something which we can't allow in this forum out of concern for our younger visitors, your post may be altered/removed without warning.
I don't believe this rule has ever been enforced, but it's never needed to be - unless you count strong language as being unsuitable for children (see comment on that rule).

I remember someone posting a ks level with porn in it. It got deleted.

   * Don't post random things in a topic. Do not post something that is completely irrelevant to that topic. This is being seen as not caring for that person or their subject. Doing so can result in a deletion of that post without warning whatsoever.
I've seen this happen a few times and I haven't seen any action taken.

I have seen action maybe once, but yeah, its not really enough.

   * Don't do back-seat moderating. If you see that someone has done something that you think is against the rules, please use the "Report to moderator"-button. Sometimes people can sound somewhat unfriendly when they tell others what not to do and sometimes they're wrong. A moderator will look into it and make a decision.
I really hate it when forums add a rule against "back-seat moderating."  If someone's breaking the rules, then I can't tell them they're breaking the rules without breaking the rules myself?  I'm sorry, but that's just silly!

You'd be breaking the rules anyways by doing that, since backseat modding=Offtopic. I think this is just here to make things more clear.

   * Don't edit your post to change the subject. If you started a topic, and the questions has been answered which makes the topic useless, do not alter your post even if it's the first post, so you can bend the topic. Create a new topic instead and optionally link to the current to explain your posting.
Has this ever actually happened?

I think it happened once in a forum game on the old forum, and the user who did it never posted again.

   * Don't post links referring to the old forum. Because it will not stay online forever, please don't add links referring to the old broken forum to your posts. If you want to "save" things that were said there, copy & paste/quote from it.
I still think this is stupid.  It is very annoying to have to quote everything, and a lot of new people have asked for links to the old forum and have been told "oh, well, we're not allowed to give you one, but you can just replace "forum" with "forum2" and guess the rest!"

Agreed. Why exactly can't we post links to the old forum? Because they will be useless when the forum is taken down? That makes no sense at all.


Well, that's all I have to say for now.

And isn't it a bit ironic that you, yourself, are complaining about our complaints?

Smart guy eeh.

Good example of rule violations.

I violate you. No, joking.

But I think you all need to chill more and take it easy. Stop being negative and enjoy the nice music.

At least we didn't degenerate to calling the forum a bunch of cyber-babies.

That aside, if I'm not mistaken, nobody's commented, yet, on chipset's post about a more open administration.  I think it would be nice.

How do you propose to achieve a "more open administration"? I really cannot think of anything, and I'm not even sure what you mean by "open".

I didn't think it was particularly controversial, especially as it'd been posted before.

The funny part of the video wasn't the horrific events in it, but rather the juxtaposition of these horrific events with Yakety Sax.

Which is still horrible, disrespectful, and not appropriate for the chat, in my opinion. As for having posted before, it doesn't change the content, which as you see, may make people question the intentions of such content.

---

"In bed" use (by all users) has declined sharply since this time last year.

Seems pretty frequent to me, and you are the one who uses it.

---

"BloxMaster: It would be nice if BloxMaster is promoted; as he is a very active part of the forum, helps with people's problems, knows what is fair and what is unfair, and what should and shouldn't be allowed. (this was an anonymous agreement)"

"Mr. Monkey, Kasran, BloxMaster, Dib, Sabata, chipset, and EarthBound015"

Sure, anonymous. Mods are chosen by the admins. Being a mod isn't just a popularity contest. Asking to be a mod is very, very stupid. If the admins decide we need a new mod, a new mod will be instated.

Whether you believe me or not, I honestly didn't make that section. I think we also know that being a mod doesn't mean being 'popular' as you put it. As for asking, it shouldn't be a dumb idea, but this forum seems to have a hard time listening when you ask for something. I also think the 'if the admins decide' plays a hand in the 'hard time listening when you ask for something'. The fact of the matter is, that you should be able to ask (like we are doing) and not be subject to a bashing, just because someone didn't agree with the request. For example, this topic seems to be about defending points, instead of people actually thinking about what we said, and how we should be allowed to voice our very reasonable opinions.

---

How do you propose to achieve a "more open administration"? I really cannot think of anything, and I'm not even sure what you mean by "open".

Administration that isn't so uptight. One with feedback and allows input from users. You could say it is like this now, but it really isn't.

Quote

    * Don't post things that are obviously not suitable for children. This forum is visited by a lot of young people, so please respect that fact and don't post things that can be disturbing for children. If you post something which we can't allow in this forum out of concern for our younger visitors, your post may be altered/removed without warning.
I don't believe this rule has ever been enforced, but it's never needed to be - unless you count strong language as being unsuitable for children (see comment on that rule).

I remember someone posting a ks level with porn in it. It got deleted.

That was a banme.  I don't think that really counts.

That was a banme.  I don't think that really counts.

Oh, right.

Quote from: googoogjoob on August 04, 2009, 19:53:29

I didn't think it was particularly controversial, especially as it'd been posted before.

Quote from: googoogjoob on August 04, 2009, 18:40:01

The funny part of the video wasn't the horrific events in it, but rather the juxtaposition of these horrific events with Yakety Sax.

Which is still horrible, disrespectful, and not appropriate for the chat, in my opinion. As for having posted before, it doesn't change the content, which as you see, may make people question the intentions of such content.

Looking at the logs, I see no serious objections at the time. Even Mr. Monkey's complaint is affected 12 seconds later by his admission that he laughed- and you have to keep in mind the very strong current of sarcasm running through #niffchat, which means that a majority of "D:"s are going to be sarcastic.

Quote from: googoogjoob on August 04, 2009, 19:43:33

"In bed" use (by all users) has declined sharply since this time last year.

Seems pretty frequent to me, and you are the one who uses it.

Looking over my logs of the past week, I find seven uses of "in bed" in as many days. (And not all by me.) An average of one use per day is very low compared to the old average of perhaps 20 per day.

Quote from: googoogjoob on August 04, 2009, 07:07:36

"BloxMaster: It would be nice if BloxMaster is promoted; as he is a very active part of the forum, helps with people's problems, knows what is fair and what is unfair, and what should and shouldn't be allowed. (this was an anonymous agreement)"

"Mr. Monkey, Kasran, BloxMaster, Dib, Sabata, chipset, and EarthBound015"

Sure, anonymous. Mods are chosen by the admins. Being a mod isn't just a popularity contest. Asking to be a mod is very, very stupid. If the admins decide we need a new mod, a new mod will be instated.

Whether you believe me or not, I honestly didn't make that section. I think we also know that being a mod doesn't mean being 'popular' as you put it. As for asking, it shouldn't be a dumb idea, but this forum seems to have a hard time listening when you ask for something. I also think the 'if the admins decide' plays a hand in the 'hard time listening when you ask for something'. The fact of the matter is, that you should be able to ask (like we are doing) and not be subject to a bashing, just because someone didn't agree with the request. For example, this topic seems to be about defending points, instead of people actually thinking about what we said, and how we should be allowed to voice our very reasonable opinions.

Why, exactly, should asking not be stupid? Anyone can ask to be a mod. Simply saying "asking to be a mod is not the way to become a mod" is not "bashing", it's simply stating fact. Thinking you should be a mod is not a qualification for being a mod.

And I hardly think that basically saying "the admins need to change these rules and fire these staff members and promote this member OR WE'LL LEAVE!!1!!!ONE" is a reasonable statement of opinion. (And don't complain that I'm exaggerating your complaints here. I know I am. I'm using hyperbole to emphasize the more ludicrous aspects of the requests.)

And it's not reasonable to complain that just because your suggestions aren't being implemented, that they're being ignored.

Quote from: googoogjoob on August 04, 2009, 20:24:11

How do you propose to achieve a "more open administration"? I really cannot think of anything, and I'm not even sure what you mean by "open".

Administration that isn't so uptight. One with feedback and allows input from users. You could say it is like this now, but it really isn't.

It is like this now. You can PM any staff member, report any post, etc. You can even post a topic like this and get replies from staff members. This post itself is feedback from a staff member.

And what do you mean, "feedback"? That word is incredibly vague. Do you mean that anyone who makes any suggestion ought to receive a detailed reasoning of why their suggestion isn't going to be implemented? Do you mean that the staff should have a public log of moderatory actions, with a list of reasons beside each one? Because, really, I have no idea what you mean here.

And I find hilarious the complaints that the staff is both "too uptight" and "not professional enough".

Spoiler: RELEVANT LOG. (click to show/hide)

[22:22:58] <@googoogjoob> does this mean i have no soul
[22:23:00] <+Mr_Monkey> goog, that's awful
[22:23:10] <+Manator> I have no soul
[22:23:12] <+Mr_Monkey> You made me laugh at terrible D:
[22:23:13] <+Manator> but I was born that way
[22:23:16] <+Mr_Monkey> I have no soul D:

Looking at the logs, I see no serious objections at the time. Even Mr. Monkey's complaint is affected 12 seconds later by his admission that he laughed- and you have to keep in mind the very strong current of sarcasm running through #niffchat, which means that a majority of "D:"s are going to be sarcastic.

Quote from: BloxMaster on August 04, 2009, 20:40:35

Quote from: googoogjoob on August 04, 2009, 19:43:33

"In bed" use (by all users) has declined sharply since this time last year.

Seems pretty frequent to me, and you are the one who uses it.

Looking over my logs of the past week, I find seven uses of "in bed" in as many days. (And not all by me.) An average of one use per day is very low compared to the old average of perhaps 20 per day.

This sort of thing causes me to think that certain people are looking for any excuse to put googoogjoob and other moderators down. I would be very surprised if googoogjoob was the "worst" person on #niffchat. I have not been there for some time now, but my memory of the place is rather clear on the likelihood of "mature" and serious discussion taking place there.
Also, "in bed" is most likely my fault. It is a plague I bring to every forum I go to. I don't think it fair to blame googoogjoob for saying it once a day.

BTW, I think the arcade and the forumgames board are silly. They seem to shift the focus away from the true point of the forum. People (and the admins) focus more on those (and moderating those sections) than they do on the other sections.

On another note, I think Nifflas would better know the "true point" of his own forum. Whatever that means. Because, really, the only point of this sort of forum is to help people with problems in Nifflas games. And that is being done all the time.

I'm not going to read all the long posts in this thread, but I want to add my $0.02 that many forums on the internet are overmoderated by power-tripping mods/admins who take themselves far too seriously, and when I do come across a forum that is not overmoderated it is a great relief.  This forum for the vast majority of its history has not been overmoderated (I don't think it's been undermoderated either.  It's maintained a pretty good balance in my opinion.)  Why would you post a petition demanding that it become one of those forums that is overmoderated?  Be thankful that this is one of the minority of forums that is not unnecessarily oppressive.  Even if you think there are annoying aspects of having a forum like that, they are highly preferable to the consequences of having an overmoderated forum.

you guys think we are doing a bad job so be it. but we are trying to do what is right for the forum and if you hate new people coming, then just leave. as for goog, he is a mod and should think twice about posting stuff like that video which I think is not even one that should be posted anywhere. goog says in bed like crazy when he can, and he seems to be staying on as a mod only because for some reason he stays up when the other mods are sleeping(that's how he became mod in the first place).

The forum should've just been a discussion for Nifflas' games. Everytime I come here I feel that Nifflas doesn't even exist anymore cause of all the off topic stuff.

The forum is way too big.

I am not generally going to argue at all because I do not like it nor can I really but I just quickly wish to say that the time I have been on the forum I have enjoyed it and the Forum was good when I joined. No bullies or anything and this appeared to continue.

I do not spend too much time on the actual forum at the moment. Yes my time online is probably high. I leave the forum on a seperate tab and that is why. I have an odd look and things seem ok. (I don't really look too deeply)

But on chat, well... It was ok from what I remember in the beginning HOWEVER these days it has gone downhill. I see how people may act infriendly on it and argue occasionly. I just want to support Mr_monkey and also that chat should be improved so that awkard people who act abusive or spam to much are kicked more often maybe?

I am not a great arguementer so i'll stop there and overall I support Monkey. That is all. Thank you.  

goog says in bed like crazy when he can,

Looking over my logs of the past week, I find seven uses of "in bed" in as many days. (And not all by me.) An average of one use per day is very low compared to the old average of perhaps 20 per day.

I don't use it "like crazy" at all.

and he seems to be staying on as a mod only because for some reason he stays up when the other mods are sleeping(that's how he became mod in the first place).

...no. That isn't remotely how I became mod. There have always been mods who will be awake when the others are sleeping- when I became mod, there were already two mods in the Western Hemisphere (HaPK and Chironex), who could reasonably be expected to be awake when the European mods were asleep. I became mod (presumably) the exact same way anyone becomes mod- the admins decided there needed to be another mod, and agreed on me.

Also: I don't think the reason #niffchat has gotten worse is spam or abuse or anything. I think it's that in the "good old days" (early-mid 2008) everyone was in #niffchat because of Knytt Stories, and more levels were being made and released, and there were constant new, interesting users. Right now it's like most of the people in #niffchat are in #niffchat out of habit anymore. (And keep in mind, #niffchat used to have far, far more "in bed"s and such and it used to be that everyone in #niffchat was an op, so there were constant frivolous kicks and bans.)

It just isn't fresh anymore. The newest Nifflas game came out nearly two years ago, many of the users aren't even going to be able to play the next Nifflas game, good new KS levels have become less frequent, there aren't many interesting new people coming in (though there are some), et cetera. It has stopped being as interesting as it used to be, but there's no way to force it to be interesting.

I want to say that IMO things are fine as they are but changes can be made to make it even better.

Thass all I'm going to say at the moment.

(also, at Well's post a while back: I've stopped swearing as much since then.)