Mafia 4 day 2

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Re: Mafia 4 day 1
« Reply #120 on: August 04, 2009, 16:30:59 »
...I thought only Mafia can PM.

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Offline TechnoGeek

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Re: Mafia 4 day 1
« Reply #121 on: August 04, 2009, 16:39:35 »
alright, unvote:victor FoS:victor and salmoneous.

i also don't want a lynch just yet, however i want to say this:
victor, why have you signed up for a game of mafia, where you are expected to post often? if you only check when you're bored, then you aren't contributing very much.
salmoneous, you seem to want a random lynch, which would actually be more likely to fall on town roles (i think). you also seem to be saying over and over that it's impossible to get the mafia D1. however, we can get very good guesses and quickly determine the dead-weight of the game.

...I thought only Mafia can PM.
so did I. Lunar, explanation?
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Offline Lunar_Tick

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Re: Mafia 4 day 1
« Reply #122 on: August 04, 2009, 18:46:57 »
Rules (Once again, thank you budja):

[...]

Nightly law:
You are fully permitted to PM people about stuff (kinda like calling a friend or something like that), but posting is forbidden.
Νίψον ἀνομήματα μὴ μόναν ὄψιν

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Offline Salmoneous

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Re: Mafia 4 day 1
« Reply #123 on: August 04, 2009, 20:19:23 »
Think, what would the mafia do in the voting time/day.
...?
Salmoneous, please expand on this. What do the mafia do during the voting time/day? And how do you suggest we play the rest of the game?

I havent said that. At least not in this game so dont try anything. But I would suggest you stop talking, your comment on every reply in the thread is a little annoying  :P2

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Offline TechnoGeek

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Re: Mafia 4 day 1
« Reply #124 on: August 04, 2009, 22:10:45 »
Think, what would the mafia do in the voting time/day.
...?
Salmoneous, please expand on this. What do the mafia do during the voting time/day? And how do you suggest we play the rest of the game?

I havent said that. At least not in this game so dont try anything. But I would suggest you stop talking, your comment on every reply in the thread is a little annoying  :P2
actually, Lunar_Tick is one of the best at analyzing people's behaviors, and is more helpful to the town. Commenting on every reply can help us make an educated guess on their role.
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Re: Mafia 4 day 1
« Reply #125 on: August 05, 2009, 02:23:08 »
@Lunar: Ok. My reasoning is as follows: I didn't wan't any lynch just yet. If I didn't say I was using that as a diversion, you would've asked me why I was making an apparently random lynch. I had every intention of unvoting when Salmoneous drew too near to a lynch. If I voted for some random person, it would seem even more suspicious. But now that it absolutely clear that was a waste of time with you on everyone's case, unvote

At Sabata, Purple Pineapple and Batlehawk:
I want your views on Battlehawk's post #103, Sabata's post #105, my posts on the matter of supporting or opposing a Salmoneous lynch and anything else that you'd like to comment on.
Let me just find those posts..
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Re: Mafia 4 day 1
« Reply #126 on: August 05, 2009, 02:30:25 »
Lunar_Tick unvoted; there's not enough to lynch Victor. 9_9

There's hardly any reason to point to Salmoneous. Just because he wants the day to end is no reason to blatantly accuse him of being a bandwagonning mafia member. For one thing, it has already been shown that Victor12 is not going to be helping us in the townies' cause, and he's just dead weight. For another thing, you're being way too quick in denouncing Salmoneous for voting against Victor12. Salmoneous has shown the same (or at least very similar) behavior in a past game of mafia, was lynched, and then shown to be on the side of the townies.

If anything, I'd say that you may be Mafia (or at least an anti-town role) because of these arguments you're making!
1.) There's already been, what, 6.5 pages of reasonable discussion? And the first day isn't even over yet!
2.) It's already been said many times, in previous mafia games and by other people that the first day can't generate much valuable evidence in weeding out the mafia. Secondly, that wasn't an overreaction. What do you call LimeLemon's posts, then? They're not bad enough to warrant a vote, while Salmoneous' slightly sarcastic and reasonably defensive post is?
3.) Your argument is horridly unrealistic here. That's no reason to be so sure of someone's alignment; he just wants to get the day over with and get to nighttime so that there might be more evidence. He's acted similarly in previous games of mafia, and I quote:

There is no proof of who is the mafia since no night actions has been done yet. I could say that I am the mafia but nobody would know that. So, its the first day, just randomly vote someone out. Even if I will get voted out.

Think, what would the mafia do in the voting time/day.

I'm going to unvote, not because your argument was successful but because there's now more people for me to be suspicious of, including you.
Grumble. I just explained my reasoning to the Salmoneous vote. I stick by my FoS, though. Salmoneous still stubbornly refuses to accept that there are ways to vote on the first day.
 
STOP DON'T VOTE FOR VICTOR!!!If, you do you may regret it terribly come D2! There are obvious mafia members among us who have started this bandwagon against him in order to divert attention from themselves. In my opinion when I accused Salmoneous earlier the mafia attempted to and succeeded in igniting a bandwagon against Victor to divert attention from Salmoneous. Victor's made 3 posts as of yet and in them there is almost no proof whatsoever that points to Victor being mafia. I believe that Victor may just be a bit of a noob to this, as 1 or  2 of you pointed out hes acted this way in previous games as well. As for his last post voting Koromi it strikes me as merely an amateurish mistake resulting from being out of touch with the majority of the proceedings of this game. As for voting him off to get rid of so called *dead weight* I'd like to call your attention to mafia 3 where Igiari was voted off for the same reason and regrets were voiced about it later. I wouldn't peg Victor as the sly crafty tactician the some of you seem to believe he is. In my opinion theres no doubt Salmoneous is the real scumbag here. All you have to do is look carefully at his posts to discover how alarmingly scummy he is. I will dissect them for you now:

I have already voted and I don't need to say anything more.
1. Yes you do. You can't just go around randomly accusing  people. Discussion is vital to the town in mafia. It allows the town to root out mafia and avoid mafia tricks and bandwagons
What? You think I'm the mafia because I'm not making a load of replays accusing people for being the mafia without any evidence or theory?

2. Not only was that a gross overreaction to Shawnachus simple prod at you for being silent, but it is also so horrifically contradictory it makes my head spin. For starters in contradicts what you said in sentence 1 and it completely contradicts your original post as shown below.
I Cast my vote on Victor12. Not that I think he is the mafia. Nobody knows who  the mafia is (Only the mafia themselves). On the first day we cant do any more then to vote out a random target.
Not only do you baselessly accuse Victor from out of the blue, but you confess to the fact that you have no evidence and promote random bandwagons in your very next sentence. This is a direct and complete contradiction to what you said above.

Just shut up and vote for someone!
3. This is, my friends, the final nail in Salmoneous's coffin. The red flag, the smoking gun. This is the damning evidence that will send Salmoneous's scummy rotting corpse to the grave. No one in their right minds would dare whisper what Salmoneous just shouted. If this and the evidence mentioned above doesn't scream mafia trying to discourage intelligent discussion and promote random bandwagons to divert suspicion from themselves and their cohorts then I don't know what does. Salmoneous's posts have been full of lies, contradictions, and telltale mafia rhetoric, and therefore I can say, beyond any reasonable doubt and with a clear conscience, SalmoneousI accuse you of being a member of the mafia and call on my colleagues to join me in condemning you to the hangmans noose. *que epic Phoenix Wright music*

Note: Sorry if I got a bit caught up in the moment when I was writing #3. X)
I rather agree with this post to some extent. Salmoneous just needs to step up and discuss rather than hanging on a rather bad day 1 strategy.
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Offline Razzorman

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Re: Mafia 4 day 1
« Reply #127 on: August 05, 2009, 11:48:58 »
@Shawnachu: Where are you?
My only star: :hiddenstar:

 :D

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Offline Lunar_Tick

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Re: Mafia 4 day 1
« Reply #128 on: August 05, 2009, 17:39:10 »
On Purple Pineapple
@Lunar: Ok. My reasoning is as follows: I didn't wan't any lynch just yet. If I didn't say I was using that as a diversion, you would've asked me why I was making an apparently random lynch. I had every intention of unvoting when Salmoneous drew too near to a lynch. If I voted for some random person, it would seem even more suspicious.
So you are telling me you think it is less suspicious to vote on a player about whom a very shaky D1 case has been made, exactly the kind which would lead to a quick bandwagon (and give no reason about it but anyway), than to vote randomly on some guy?

The first choice puts Salmoneous in a dangerous position (aggravating a bandwagon, etc), which you say you had no intention of doing, as you were gonna take your vote off. The second puts no player in a dangerous position.

I therefore don't think it would seem even more suspicious if you voted randomly.
I also think the least suspicious way would be to campaign normally against a Victor lynch with evidence and shizzle, not trying all this slightly underhand tricks.

If I didn't say I was using that as a diversion, you would've asked me why I was making an apparently random lynch.
If you did vote somebody randomly, I would ask why you were doing so, and your reason of trying getting the heat of Victor would be logical. Because by voting somebody purely by chance you don't have any ulterior motive. But you very possibly have ulterior motive by voting for Salmoneous, an easy lynch victim.

A townie also wouldn't be ok with putting their vote on someone if they didn't think that person was scum. I mean what were you planning all the guys at that time who were voting for Victor to go for Salmoneous? So did you think that Salmoneous was scummy enough to warrant a vote? Either way you answer this question is scummy. (this may be a false dilemma)
If you did think Salmoneous was scummy enough to warrant a vote then why did you give another reason for voting and why have you unvoted.
If you didn't think Salmoneous was scummy enough for a vote then you definately shouldn't have voted form him, neither should your plan of action have been to wait for everybody to pile on him and then take your vote of when things get messy, which is what your plan looks like.
What exactly was your plan?

Grumble. I just explained my reasoning to the Salmoneous vote. I stick by my FoS, though. Salmoneous still stubbornly refuses to accept that there are ways to vote on the first day.
I rather agree with this post to some extent. Salmoneous just needs to step up and discuss rather than hanging on a rather bad day 1 strategy.
Both of these quotes are just very short nutshells of the posts. You don't mention let alone dissect the problems with the arguments in either posts, which seems to suggest you have no problem with them. You don't actually take any new positions, nor is your view on Salmoneous clear to me. Is he scummy?

This all could be way too much hot air from nothing.
I want to hear Budja's opinion, I bet he's scum.
Νίψον ἀνομήματα μὴ μόναν ὄψιν

Re: Mafia 4 day 1
« Reply #129 on: August 06, 2009, 00:24:24 »
Ok. No, I don't actually find Salmoneous scummy. Yes, I feel he's just being stubborn. No, that was not a crude attempt to aggravate a bandwagon. Bah. <_<
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Offline Budja

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Re: Mafia 4 day 1
« Reply #130 on: August 06, 2009, 07:20:29 »
Bet away, Lunar :P. I am really busy now (back at Uni) and have limited net access for a while.

Quote from: Purple Pinapple
Ok. No, I don't actually find Salmoneous scummy.
Really, after all the FoSes, FoS*2's.

More tomorrow when I have time.

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Offline Budja

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Re: Mafia 4 day 1
« Reply #131 on: August 06, 2009, 09:59:18 »
Victor fails once again to prove his worth.

Quote from: Lunar
Indeed. However, I think we have a hot discussion going on, no need to lynch Victor yet.
QFT

Techno's posting is giving me a good feeling. Now that you have proved you can play, you have no excuse for fluff posting :P.

I greatly dislike Purple's choice of terms, calling his vote a "diversion" sounds especially, even openly scummy.
I also dislike Purple's change of heart on Salmoneous.

Quote from: Lunar
The first choice puts Salmoneous in a dangerous position (aggravating a bandwagon, etc), which you say you had no intention of doing, as you were gonna take your vote off. The second puts no player in a dangerous position.
Agreed, however I don't think Purple Pineapple thought that far ahead.

Overall, I am torn on his scumminess as he seems a little too "open" about it. Calling a vote a diversion doesn't feel like something scum would actually do.

On a side note, Limelemon appears to have vanished.
Come out LimeLemon and give us your views!
Give me a reason to unvote.

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Offline victor12

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Re: Mafia 4 day 1
« Reply #132 on: August 06, 2009, 11:44:11 »
DO NOT lynch me. *points to mafia 2*I AM a investigator. AGAIN.
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Re: Mafia 4 day 1
« Reply #133 on: August 06, 2009, 12:13:51 »
We have no proof of that, and if you were an investigator shouldn't you have been more active and helpful to the town? I'm sorry, but I for one do not believe you. I'm keeping my vote.

And how are previous games relevant? The roles are randomly assigned.

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Offline Sabata

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Re: Mafia 4 day 1
« Reply #134 on: August 07, 2009, 02:14:18 »
Firstly, I apologize for not replying when I came under scrutiny by Lunar_Tick. I'm on vacation.

On myself:
On Sabata:
1.) There's already been, what, 6.5 pages of reasonable discussion? And the first day isn't even over yet!
6.5 pages isn't enough if we are not sure of our target. The mind set of sitting down to the discussion table as if it were a chore is very detrimental and usually brings the mentality of wanting to leave as soon as we've made our decision and as fast as possible.
One doesn't need to be active to play, but one needs to be active to win.
Well, yes, I agree. But I was pointing out that Battlehawk shouldn't be suspicious of Salmoneous just because Salmon thought that he didn't "need to say anything more."

2.) It's already been said many times, in previous mafia games and by other people that the first day can't generate much valuable evidence in weeding out the mafia.
Yes it can. It is just very, very difficult to see it. The first day is the most valuable, one could say. It indirectly affects the rest of the course of the game and the actions during it are far from random.
Whoever we lynch, the behaviour of the mafia N1 and D2 (and by extension the rest of the game) necessarily hinge on D1 actions and lynch, so D1 is, albeit indirectly and invisibly, the most evidence generating day in the game.
D1 also gives us direct evidence, but of course we won't be able to spot it right now. If we stir things up now, we'll be able to look back to D1 when a player starts getting very suspicious indeedums, and see in the D1 posts incriminating evidence in his posts.
Again, I agree. Actually, I'm not sure why I added that. I'm not sure what park of BH's post I was referring to. :huh:

I suppose I'm not very good at wording things. Sorry about that. :/

On Victor12:
I seriously doubt that he's investigator; like DFS said, he hasn't been very helpful to the town, except for provoking conversation.

I vote Victor12.

On everyone else:
The discussion seems to be too much for me to keep track of, especially when I can't check the thread often. Sorry, but I won't be especially helpful for a while. :/
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