[Environmental] Falling Water

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Offline Hmpf

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Re: [Environmental] Falling Water
« Reply #120 on: December 29, 2009, 18:41:20 »
Thanks. I found out I really enjoy building forests...

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Offline yohji

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Re: [Environmental] Falling Water
« Reply #121 on: December 29, 2009, 18:51:52 »
Just took my time to look at all the screenshots in the thread, and I must say things seem to get better and better and better... those underground gardens, the upper lower city, the forests... Wow. And so many areas! Can't wait for the release :crazy:

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Offline DustinCartwright

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Re: [Environmental] Falling Water
« Reply #122 on: December 29, 2009, 21:26:08 »
It looks pretty for sure, and I suppose for an enviromental game it'd have to  :shifty:
These kinds of games were always relaxing and fun to look at

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Offline Hmpf

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Re: [Environmental] Falling Water
« Reply #123 on: December 30, 2009, 03:49:15 »
219.

And thanks for the nice feedback, all.

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Offline Hmpf

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Re: [Environmental] Falling Water
« Reply #124 on: December 31, 2009, 02:37:53 »
I've found a spoiler-free way to report on my progress. See attachment. ;-)

(222. And no, I won't report the number of unique, playable screens *every* day. I just feel like it, at the moment.)

ETA: I feel I should add that the expected number of screens I gave a while ago (400-600) is probably too low. Well, it could still end up being 600, *maybe*... but I don't really believe so. I think we're looking at a final screen count of 600-800. (Arrgh.)
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 02:47:36 by Hmpf »

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Offline Hmpf

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Re: [Environmental] Falling Water
« Reply #125 on: January 02, 2010, 03:45:33 »
228.

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Offline Hmpf

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Re: [Environmental] Falling Water
« Reply #126 on: January 04, 2010, 16:53:11 »
236. The map is now too wide to fit in one screenshot.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 17:18:27 by Hmpf »

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Offline Pumpkinbot

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Re: [Environmental] Falling Water
« Reply #127 on: January 04, 2010, 17:33:31 »
Since nobody has said anything on this  recently to cheer you on, Hmpf, these screenshots and suck look AWESMOE. :awsum:
A God, a Messiah, an Angel, a King, a Prince, and an All Terrain Vehicle.

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Offline Hmpf

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Re: [Environmental] Falling Water
« Reply #128 on: January 04, 2010, 18:34:45 »
Thanks! But, don't worry, I'm not really fishing for compliments, and don't really need cheering up. I'm rather enjoying the building, and simply feel like sharing my progress here on a semi-regular basis.

Not that I mind compliments, mind you. :D Just, don't feel pressured to comment.

I've just counted my areas, btw. I think there's 23, so far. Roughly speaking, because some of them sort of consist of several sub-areas.

Oh, yeah, and another new screen since my last post. So, 237 now. *g*

ETA: I've also updated my rather spoilery Preview Page (http://www.allabouthmpf.com/falling water.htm). There's some more images there. Not that many more, though. You may get a virus warning from your browser when you visit the page, because my site was hacked and infected recently. I've cleaned it up, though, and the Falling Water page, specifically, has just been freshly re-uploaded, so it should be clean. As far as I can tell the browser warnings are only updated every few months or so, so it will apparently take a few months until my site is officially cleared again. I think.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 18:38:22 by Hmpf »

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Offline Pumpkinbot

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Re: [Environmental] Falling Water
« Reply #129 on: January 04, 2010, 19:11:53 »
Just didn't want you to think that nobody wanted to play this. ;) 'Cause we do. :o
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Offline Sendy

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Re: [Environmental] Falling Water
« Reply #130 on: January 05, 2010, 02:03:56 »
Really liking the look of this... I love environmental levels. Playing the demo now.

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Offline Hmpf

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Re: [Environmental] Falling Water
« Reply #131 on: January 05, 2010, 03:17:27 »
@Sendy:

The full level will be much more environmental than the first part, actually. :-)

I just read your list of notes about your big project, and from that I sense a certain... kindred with you, in some respects. Especially the desire to make a map that would look good as a massive screenshot mosaic, too - I'm kind of aiming for that myself, though I'm also trying to make do with the gradients that come with the editor, which means I can't really make a sky that will look good in a screenshot mosaic map. (I started making such a screenshot mosaic, once, btw: http://www.allabouthmpf.com/profile.htm - that's only roughly a tenth of the level as it currently exists, though - to be precise: part of the upper half of the right side of the ground level of the world.) But I really take care to make the screens where different tilesets or combinations of tilesets meet feel like the changes make sense. No abrupt tileset changes, except where it makes sense. Etc.

There will be some 'holes' in my map, of course - mainly for shift/warp screens, dialogue and the like.

Another thing I'm also eager to do for Falling Water, if I can manage, is custom soundscapes. Not so much music (although I hope to find music that will fit the level, too, eventually), but custom edited ambiance. I have no experience with audio editing, though, so that's still a bit iffy. But I'd like to try, because - like you - I think it really helps immersion to have a good soundscape. But that's still rather far off. First, I'll finish building the map, I think.

Speaking of which:

240! Yay! :D

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Offline Sendy

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Re: [Environmental] Falling Water
« Reply #132 on: January 06, 2010, 15:58:20 »
Ahh, I'm not an environmental 'purist', I just enjoy a good atmosphere.

I started off also using the preset gradients, and I got quite far with them, at one stage I even resorted to using coloured block tiles to patch two gradients together (creating a rather weird and cool sky effect) but eventually I hd to start editing. Eventually I found a program called "gradient maker" which is perfect for making KS backgrounds.

The whole 'continuity between screens' aesthetic is a tricky one to pull off. You can have natural transitions between screens without neccecarily having what I call 'semantic' continuity (that is, absolutely everything including outlines continues smoothly onto the next screen). Then there are the gradients - sometimes you want the same gradient in two screens that are vertically stacked, which looks fine in gameplay, but which would compromise what the final screenshot map would look like. In my next game I'll definitely be finding a happy medium instead of going all out!

The sad thing is, my map also has holes, and has turned out into quite an ugly shape, which doesn't lend well to a map, but there you go...

Anyway, great demo, particularly the use of custom objects in that town area was pretty damn spiffy (and the fact that I've not really seen custom objects make it even more amazing!). I guess now we can have 'go behind' tiles like the original Knytt did?

Overall, I can't really offer any constructive crit.. I was sad when I reached the end, which is a good thing. Looking forwards to more of it :)

EDIT: Oh yes, those finnicky repetetive jumps in the first sewer part - I dare say if you made those tiles more triangular, so there's a teeny bit more room to jump, it would be an improvement. I didn't have much of a problem but I can imagine less experienced platformers having trouble.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 16:02:01 by Sendy »

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Offline Hmpf

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Re: [Environmental] Falling Water
« Reply #133 on: January 13, 2010, 18:19:16 »
Ahh, I'm not an environmental 'purist', I just enjoy a good atmosphere.

Yeah, same here, although the rest of Falling Water *will* be pretty much a pure environmental. (Well, you have to collect the four keys, and possibly the eye powerup, but that's it, for the entire rest of the level.)

I'm not particularly good at KS, though, so very hard and insane levels that are very pretty are rather frustrating for me - in the sense of "I know I'd really love to explore them, but I also know I won't be able to", not in the sense of "I can manage them, if I try hard enough." So, I really appreciate it when people make it easy for me to explore their worlds. :-)

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I started off also using the preset gradients, and I got quite far with them, at one stage I even resorted to using coloured block tiles to patch two gradients together (creating a rather weird and cool sky effect) but eventually I hd to start editing. Eventually I found a program called "gradient maker" which is perfect for making KS backgrounds.

Hmm.... I'm tempted now to find this program... though on the other hand I kind of like working within certain limitations. Have to ponder this...

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The whole 'continuity between screens' aesthetic is a tricky one to pull off. You can have natural transitions between screens without neccecarily having what I call 'semantic' continuity (that is, absolutely everything including outlines continues smoothly onto the next screen). Then there are the gradients - sometimes you want the same gradient in two screens that are vertically stacked, which looks fine in gameplay, but which would compromise what the final screenshot map would look like. In my next game I'll definitely be finding a happy medium instead of going all out!

Heh. I know what you mean. I'm compromising a lot regarding the backgrounds, but not so much regarding tile continuity - so far, anyway, though I'm getting to some areas now that seem just about impossible to link up convincingly with other areas, aesthetically speaking, because the tilesets just don't match with any of the others I intend to use.

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The sad thing is, my map also has holes, and has turned out into quite an ugly shape, which doesn't lend well to a map, but there you go...

Mine will probably end up with much bigger holes in it, finally, than it has now, too. If I were to fill *all* that space, it'd take me forever! *g*

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Anyway, great demo, particularly the use of custom objects in that town area was pretty damn spiffy (and the fact that I've not really seen custom objects make it even more amazing!). I guess now we can have 'go behind' tiles like the original Knytt did?

Thanks! And 'go behind' tiles are easy to make, really - cut a tile from a tileset, render a part of it invisible (if you want a window or something similar, that is), and declare it a custom object!

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Overall, I can't really offer any constructive crit.. I was sad when I reached the end, which is a good thing. Looking forwards to more of it :)

Glad to hear you enjoyed it! More will be coming... eventually. *g*

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EDIT: Oh yes, those finnicky repetetive jumps in the first sewer part - I dare say if you made those tiles more triangular, so there's a teeny bit more room to jump, it would be an improvement. I didn't have much of a problem but I can imagine less experienced platformers having trouble.

Yeah... I know that part's kind of annoying. I have to think about whether it's annoying enough to warrant changing the tileset (especially since I'm not sure how to contact the tileset maker)...

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Offline Pick Yer Poison

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Re: [Environmental] Falling Water
« Reply #134 on: January 13, 2010, 18:42:31 »
I'm compromising a lot regarding the backgrounds, but not so much regarding tile continuity - so far, anyway, though I'm getting to some areas now that seem just about impossible to link up convincingly with other areas, aesthetically speaking, because the tilesets just don't match with any of the others I intend to use.
I have a tip regarding that...if you find that two tilesets hate each other with a passion, it can help to add a neutral sort of screen, e.g. a bridge over water. It would last two screens, with each screen showing one of the tilesets beginning/ending, depending on what direction the player is moving. The downside to that is that you're going to have to leave some of each screen devoid of tiles, since you'll be using both tileset slots on each screen (one for the tileset you're transitioning to/from and one for the tileset with the bridge).

I have to think about whether it's annoying enough to warrant changing the tileset (especially since I'm not sure how to contact the tileset maker)...
To find a tileset maker, first check and see if they're on the forum. Then see if any of the moderators or administrators know where you might find them. If neither of those routes turns up anything, I wouldn't fault you if you went ahead and modified it, as long as you make a note in portion of the tileset where the author's name goes that it's not the original.