[Challenge][Hard][Medium] Finding Them (first attempt)

Hi guys 

I'm pretty excited at finishing my first attempt at doing a level for KS-

just wondering if I can get some feedback on it?

http://knyttlevels.com/levels/Xiphos%20-%20FindingThem.knytt.bin

Description:
Juni wakes up to find that her parents have vanished. She sets out to find them.
I've spaced out the save points and put in some (i hope) tricky navigation bits.
Time-wise it's a pretty quick adventure if you know how to get through all the challenges quickly.

thanks!

Congratulations on your first level - but sorry, too many problems here First of all, when creating a new level, make sure you get your name and the level name correct. Currently, your level resides in a directory called "Josh Yeo - Kite Time", whereas it is compressed as "xiphos - finding them". Since there's no such directory, I had to search for like 5 minutes, since my KS level folder is pretty big. Secondly, you give the player the run powerup at the start, but in the level editor I can see that the run powerup is on the first screen.

Then there are standard first level problems - some clouds are solid, some are not, and there is no way to know which are which. One invisible wall is covered in "no climb" tiles, another isn't. There are many counter-intuitive design decisions - the whole layout lets the player go from one challenge to another only to find some invisible and counter-intuitive instant death tiles and nothing else. Leaping down from a cloud or the mountain causes instant death, not very logical and certainly impossible to see beforehand. And finally, there are wallswims here and there - the player can jump into a cloud when going from x998y1000 to x999y1000, into a wall when going from x998y998 to the right and then back again; the walls aren't aligned properly between x998y998 and x998y997, and so on.

It's a shame, too, because I liked some of the areas very much (didn't finish the level and took a hike using the editor), like the , and the plot seemed nice, too. Maybe you should try making a smaller, simpler level to get a grasp of aligning terrain to avoid wallswims. Also, either try testing your level better, or ask for beta-testers.

This is a pretty sloppy first level.
Also yohji pretty much took away my job at listing the problems 
I've also noticed a bunch of useless screens, mostly the clouds and the Most of the screens are plain overkill, just list this level [Impossible], trying not to be offensive btw.

By the way the ending was random

I've also noticed a bunch of useless screens, mostly the clouds and the

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

ghosts

Yeah. It's called a filler screen and it's done for something called aesthetic appeal.

This is a pretty sloppy first level.

I've never met one person who expects people's first levels to be Teenhmifnoeafgil or Gaia or something. Seriously.

=|=

thanks heaps for the feedback guys!

yeah like I said, it's my first go at it (and working out wall swims is really frustrating! it would be so much nicer if the game just bounced you back to the previous screen)

hi yohji,

also I couldn't work out how to change the title of the game to remove my name and the original name for the level - because even though I changed it in the settings file, it didn't seem to change the folder? also, it's difficult because the level editor already pre installs the game for me, so I couldn't detect install errors like that.

do I just need to rename the folder to what I've now named the game?

sorry I don't understand about the run power up part - you mean the power up on the left screen adjacent to the starting view? i thought that powerup was to allow the player to climb walls?

in terms of environmental consistency, it was based off a more, try and see what it's like approach to the game rather than expect everything to always behave the same. given that you don't ever have a 'game over' in this game you can really just keep dying and you don't lose anything?

sorry, what's the instant death when leaping off clouds/mountains? there's no height restrictions for jumping right? it's just the player making sure they land properly using the directional buttons?

thanks for pointing out the wall swims - i'll try and fix that up!

i originally started working on this aiming to do just that - make it a small level to test, then it just kind of grew bigger and bigger, so I figured I should finish it up and get some feedback - since just from the pdf manual alone it's really hard to work out what to do.

sorry, I thought this forum was for posting for level testing should I have posted it somewhere else?

hi globin man,

thanks for commenting!

the 'useless screens' are a result of preventing the default screen displaying when you double jump in random directions, especially from the top of the map.

if you know how to change the default background for each tile that would help heaps! (saves me having to chuck on a random tile in order to make sure the background is consistent)

could you also explain exactly how the levels are overkill? (I actually thought I didn't make the whole thing hard enough) I only listed this as hard because like I said in my description, they're not too bad, just needs a couple of goes (the second half of ghosts and goblins is hard!) but yeah if you could be more exact I can get a better idea of how to make it 'easier' in the future. Somewhere in my mind I probably was half thinking of Syobon Action and final stage of Cave Story when making this - which is probably giving it, the inconsistent environment behaviour (and maybe a 'busy' final level?).


thanks yukabacera, yup- I wasn't expecting this to be the world's greatest level.. just a first attempt.

yeah like I said, it's my first go at it (and working out wall swims is really frustrating! it would be so much nicer if the game just bounced you back to the previous screen)

Wallswims are really best taken care of during the process of building your level, not after you've finished it. The rule of thumb is that whenever you place a level 3 tile on the side of the screen, make sure there's another level 3 tile on the appropriate position at the adjacent screen.

also I couldn't work out how to change the title of the game to remove my name and the original name for the level - because even though I changed it in the settings file, it didn't seem to change the folder? also, it's difficult because the level editor already pre installs the game for me, so I couldn't detect install errors like that.

do I just need to rename the folder to what I've now named the game?

Yes, just rename the folder into "Xiphos - Finding Them" and it will take care of the problem.

sorry I don't understand about the run power up part - you mean the power up on the left screen adjacent to the starting view? i thought that powerup was to allow the player to climb walls?

No, I meant the run powerup, the red one. In the editor there's one right next to Juni on the very first screen.

in terms of environmental consistency, it was based off a more, try and see what it's like approach to the game rather than expect everything to always behave the same. given that you don't ever have a 'game over' in this game you can really just keep dying and you don't lose anything?

Well, it's a matter of opinion, of course. But to me the level was a bit frustrating precisely because of this approach. I start out and decide to descend from that mountain thing... boom, I'm dead. OK, I realize the clouds are actually solid, so I try jumping from cloud to cloud, and then... boom, I'm dead because one of the clouds wasn't solid. And so on.

sorry, what's the instant death when leaping off clouds/mountains? there's no height restrictions for jumping right? it's just the player making sure they land properly using the directional buttons?

I just meant the instant death tiles, i.e. the red invisible tiles you place on objects you want to be lethal. And I referred to those that cover the "floor" of all x[anything]y1000 screens - they're completely counter-intuitive in that you'd expect land or something, not instant death...

i originally started working on this aiming to do just that - make it a small level to test, then it just kind of grew bigger and bigger, so I figured I should finish it up and get some feedback - since just from the pdf manual alone it's really hard to work out what to do.

sorry, I thought this forum was for posting for level testing should I have posted it somewhere else?

Don't worry! A lot of first levels start out that way, and noone's first level is ever very good. And you did the right thing posting it here.

thanks! I've tried making the fixes to this level, but i'll start on a newer one and keep your advice in mind

This is a pretty sloppy first level.

This is more or less a typical first level.

Most of the screens are plain overkill, just list this level [Impossible], trying not to be offensive btw.

I think the [hard] tag is fine.

Quote from: GlobinMan on June 22, 2010, 22:56:20

This is a pretty sloppy first level.

This is more or less a typical first level.

Quote from: GlobinMan on June 22, 2010, 22:56:20

Most of the screens are plain overkill, just list this level [Impossible], trying not to be offensive btw.

I think the [hard] tag is fine.

@ Purple Pineapple:You really know the difficulty of levels, do you?
@ Xiphos: Its your first level, you will usually learn how to improve your level so you make better ones in the future. I screwed up my second level, I tend to make my levels insanely hard so hard was considered lunatic, I wonder what Lunatic is considered  . Good luck for future levels

@ Purple Pineapple:You really know the difficulty of levels, do you?

I was able to beat this, dying a maximum of one time per screen. Therefore it's not [impossible] Or even lunatic⁺

thanks for playing it so well purple pineapple.

after spending more time taking a closer look at the levels of strange flower, underwater and this level is unfinished really pointed out to me heaps of things i'd like to change for future attempts (and how simple this level is).