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Nightgame NOT Wiiware only!

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Offline Razzorman

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Re: Nightgame Wiiware only...
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2009, 19:33:13 »
This is all about profit.
As far as we know, Nicalis doesnt have to pick one platform and stick with it. If that is right, there is absolutely no reason they couldn't release it on both platforms and make more money.
Regardless of how easy it is to find on the wii, if they keep NG exclusive to the wii they will miss out on the money Nifflas PC fan base would have spent.
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Offline LPChip

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Re: Nightgame Wiiware only...
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2009, 19:33:56 »
Quote from: bokabeed on March 01, 2009, 19:32:18
Probably because it is so easy to steal it on the PC. You can just copy/paste the file from someone who has already bought it, and then Nicalis has lost money.

But that isn't possible on the Wii.

I disagree. On the wii you can also download games illegally, its jut a bit harder.
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Offline bokabeed

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Re: Nightgame Wiiware only...
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2009, 19:35:26 »
Well, if you can I(the common not-programming genius) wouldn't know how.
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Offline Razzorman

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Re: Nightgame Wiiware only...
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2009, 19:37:40 »
Quote from: bokabeed on March 01, 2009, 19:32:18
Probably because it is so easy to steal it on the PC. You can just copy/paste the file from someone who has already bought it, and then Nicalis has lost money.

But that isn't possible on the Wii.
Nicalis wouldn't loose any money on that. Most of the people who pirate games would not have bought it anyways.
And you don't need to be a genius to pirate Wiiware games, it is pretty simple actually. I wont tell you how though.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2009, 19:40:09 by Razzorman »
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Offline LPChip

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Re: Nightgame Wiiware only...
« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2009, 19:40:14 »
Quote from: bokabeed on March 01, 2009, 19:35:26
Well, if you can I(the common not-programming genius) wouldn't know how.

Like with any console, you can get it hacked for you so you can play downloaded games. As for the WiiWare channels, its actually different. There's a game (dunno the name) that has a bug that allows you to write anything from an SD card into your channels without having to pay for it. You just download the file from the internet and put it on the SD card, then you do that special trick and it installs that game for you. In fact, there has been made a tool that if you install it, you don't need that game anymore.
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Offline Purple Pineapple

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Re: Nightgame Wiiware only...
« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2009, 19:41:21 »
Quote from: bokabeed on March 01, 2009, 19:32:18
Probably because it is so easy to steal it on the PC. You can just copy/paste the file from someone who has already bought it, and then Nicalis has lost money.

But that isn't possible on the Wii.
Actually, even with people stealing the game, Nicalis still makes more money than if it were to sell solely on the wii.
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Offline googoogjoob

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Re: Nightgame Wiiware only...
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2009, 19:42:49 »
Quote from: bokabeed on March 01, 2009, 19:32:18
Probably because it is so easy to steal it on the PC. You can just copy/paste the file from someone who has already bought it, and then Nicalis has lost money.

But that isn't possible on the Wii.

As has been posted elsewhere multiple times, piracy does not really hurt sales all that much. Most people who pirate wouldn't've bought the game in the first place. World of Goo is currently one of the most successful WiiWare games out there, and its PC version has a 90% piracy rate.

As a rule, it isn't possible to stop piracy (without, y'know, totally destroying all civil liberties), and it simply isn't worth it to try. (Something like one sale gained for every thousand instances of piracy stopped.)
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Offline Gaeel

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Re: Unknown game genre
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2009, 21:27:09 »
Quote from: Dynamite on March 01, 2009, 01:30:57
I've never seen a PC game that said "Nintendo" on it, nonetheless Nicalis..
Here you go : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_games_in_the_Mario_series#Mario_Is_Missing.21

Now you've seen a PC game with Nintendo on it.

And about the debate :

Whether Nifflas is happy about it or not, I think it's wrong that he lost control of the game just because he subcsribed to a publisher. For example, if someday I sign with a label for my music, and they say I can't sell a downloadable version (assuming I have an online fanbase) then I'm not happy about it. Now Nifflas says he's OK with this, but I don't really understand why, this is a blatent disregard for his desires about a project he's put a lot of effort into.

The motivations for this Wii exclusivity are obviously financial, because the PC version was definately what the fans were hoping for, and from what I hear the PC version was technically easier to implement, so it's definately not a technical choice or anything.

Now who's fault it is isn't really important, but somewhere along the line someone figured that ignoring what the fans and the author of the game want, will make more money, and that is wrong, because it goes against what independant gaming is all about. Indy developers make games they love, for people who love their games, and if they can make a few bucks on the way, then all the better. When a developer intentionally cripples his game, or makes it less available for his fans, for money reasons, then that's called selling out.

And I know I'm using big words, and I'll probably get a lot of virtual frowns, but I don't want any part of this.

Now ban me or moderate this post if you want, but I think a Nicalis and possibly Nintendo boycott is what we need to do.

We need to show that letting corporate and financial decisions cripple the indy games we love is wrong and we don't want it...

And Nifflas, please, don't let yourself get pushed over for this, I don't know if you signed a contract that you can't come back on anymore, but this is wrong, and you should let Nicalis know that this is wrong.

What's important isn't whether NG will be released on PC or not, I'm not that skin-deep that I get angry because there's a game I can't play. This is about an author losing control of his creation, and Indy gaming having it's arm twisted by a corporate decision, which is exactly the opposite of what indy gaming is about, being free of corporate and financial obligations.
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Offline TheRealTJ

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Re: Nightgame Wiiware only...
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2009, 21:29:21 »
As I do admit, it's rather disappointing for it to be Wii exclusive, it seems there is some good reason. I believe Nifflas had to choose: release a game on a Wii, thus gaining a  whole new audience, or release another computer game, and change nothing about his career as a game designer, except for possibly losing a few fans who wouldn't buy it. He made the decision that will no doubt further his opportunity as a game designer.

My only question is why exactly he couldn't release both.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2009, 21:33:19 by TheRealTJ »
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Offline Kasran

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Re: Nightgame Wiiware only...
« Reply #54 on: March 01, 2009, 21:30:50 »
Quote from: TheRealTJ on March 01, 2009, 21:29:21
My only question is why exactly he couldn't release both.
That's everyone's question. <_<
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Offline heartskuppy

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Re: Nightgame Wiiware only...
« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2009, 22:09:23 »
Quote from: Gaeel on March 01, 2009, 21:27:09
whine whine whine

people are really overreacting about this, huh?

Quote from: TheRealTJ on March 01, 2009, 21:29:21
As I do admit, it's rather disappointing for it to be Wii exclusive, it seems there is some good reason. I believe Nifflas had to choose: release a game on a Wii, thus gaining a  whole new audience, or release another computer game, and change nothing about his career as a game designer, except for possibly losing a few fans who wouldn't buy it. He made the decision that will no doubt further his opportunity as a game designer.

My only question is why exactly he couldn't release both.

this is exactly how i feel. i believe this will be good for nifflas. here's to night game becoming the next world of goo! (only without the pc version, obviously >_<)

btw, why does there need to be two topics about this? i would've thought the mods would've cleaned this up by now.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2009, 22:12:01 by heartskuppy »
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Offline googoogjoob

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Re: Nightgame Wiiware only...
« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2009, 22:19:52 »
Spoiler: Long quote. (click to show/hide)

This is what I meant by seeing Nicalis as predatory. It's possible to be friendly while being exploitative. Giving control of the rights to a property like this is never a good idea, especially because if a business deal goes sour, one party can be left holding an artist's properties over that artist's head for eternity, barring drawn-out and expensive litigation. (There are many musicians who don't control much of their back catalog because of this sort of thing.)

Now. I do not know if it is typical in the video games industry (more specifically, in the independent video games industry, which is more relevant here) for a game designer to sign away rights to a game, but it just doesn't seem right. I worry about Pixel now- he must've signed over at least some of the rights to Cave Story (possibly even all of them, since Nicalis was able to force YouTube to take down videos of the PC version of Cave Story). The idea of a company owning THE indie game is scary. Giving the rights to something in return for possible profit/fame/glory can look good in the short term, but is virtually never good in the long term.

Quote from: heartskuppy on March 01, 2009, 22:09:23
here's to night game becoming the next world of goo! (only without the pc version, obviously >_<)

I'm pretty sure 2DBoy owns all the rights to World of Goo, except probably some distribution rights for the Wii version.

Like I've posted before, acting like this cannot help Nicalis's chances of getting new contracts with indie developers.
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Offline Gaeel

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Re: Nightgame Wiiware only...
« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2009, 22:40:28 »
Quote from: heartskuppy on March 01, 2009, 22:09:23
Quote from: Gaeel on March 01, 2009, 21:27:09
whine whine whine

people are really overreacting about this, huh?

Nope, it's not over-reaction. Nifflas has lost control of his own game, and due to financial reasons the game is made unavailable to fans. In indie gaming, "due to financial reasons" shouldn't exist.

Quote from: heartskuppy on March 01, 2009, 22:09:23
i believe this will be good for nifflas

No, it won't.
While it's true that this will make Nifflas some money, which can be considered as good, it also means that he has lost his rights over his own project. I can't see how that is good for him.
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Offline bokabeed

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Re: Nightgame Wiiware only...
« Reply #58 on: March 01, 2009, 22:59:25 »
Gaeel, I don't understand your logic. You are acting like he has personaly wronged you. Nifflas is able to make his own decisions, and if you support him, you should stand by him. But you aren't, you are just whinning about something that has already happened.

Little Advice:
GET OVER IT

don't ever tell someone what they should do with their products. He didn't ask you for financial advice.
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Offline googoogjoob

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Re: Nightgame Wiiware only...
« Reply #59 on: March 01, 2009, 23:03:32 »
...what? If a company is being exploitative and ignoring consumers, then consumers have every right to complain. There's no reason Nicalis couldn't release a PC version in the future, but they're more likely to if they know people want it.
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