Nifflas' Support Forum

Being Creative => Collaborations => Topic started by: LPChip on November 15, 2020, 22:27:55

Title: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 15, 2020, 22:27:55
A while ago on Discord, someone came with the idea to create a level that is a remake/remix of the existing level "The Machine" by Nifflas.

The idea is to recreate the level, but make it appear like the level exists in an alternate reality. I really do like the idea so I started working on remixing all music.

What this level is about, as StraightFlame posted so nicely
Basically, we're recreating The Machine, with tilesets and music being roughly the same (maybe edited a little bit) but the actual level design being completely different. SC compared it to Doom The Way Id Did when he came up with the idea.

I designed my area to be similar to its The Machine counterpart, both in terms of the area's general layout and the design of individual screens, while making sure to make it different enough from the original to be worth playing. I don't know if Sergio and ncrecc are also taking that approach, though.


More will follow. If you want to join the project, please look below for which areas are free. You can press the edit link to edit the page to claim an area. Please edit it back to unclaimed if you decide you do not want to work on it anymore for whatever reason. A reply in the topic would also be nice.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/352591530701225985/754966647994974268/MachineZones.png) (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/352591530701225985/754966647994974268/MachineZones.png)

Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Talps on November 16, 2020, 11:36:53
Can you explain the concept a bit more? How is this alternative reality version to be different from the original in terms of level design?
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: StraightFlame on November 16, 2020, 12:13:22
Basically, we're recreating The Machine, with tilesets and music being roughly the same (maybe edited a little bit) but the actual level design being completely different. SC compared it to Doom The Way Id Did when he came up with the idea.

I designed my area to be similar to its The Machine counterpart, both in terms of the area's general layout and the design of individual screens, while making sure to make it different enough from the original to be worth playing. I don't know if Sergio and ncrecc are also taking that approach, though.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Talps on November 16, 2020, 12:31:33
I might be up for getting involved in this.

I take it areas need to be roughly the same size/shape as the original?
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: StraightFlame on November 16, 2020, 13:01:55
I don't think we've made a decision on that yet. The thing is, not every area in The Machine is the same size. I got one of the largest areas (around 35 screens?), and because of that i could make something nice while keeping the size and shape of my area roughy the same, but if the area you pick is only a dozen screens or less, it's understandable if you want to make it bigger or a different shape.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 16, 2020, 14:47:41
To my knowledge, the only thing we agreed upon was that the entrances of the areas would be in the same location, so we can stitch it up later using warps, and then you have the freedom to make your version larger or smaller without any issue.

It does goes to say that if the area in the original is either very small or very large, the difference in size in the new version should not be too far off. So a tiny area in the original should not be huge in the altered version and visa versa.

That said, if you add a secret area that is not in the original, you do not have to adhere to this restriction at all.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 17, 2020, 13:39:02
Statusupdate: I've edited the forum post and included everything from the clickup page. As far as I'm concerned, the clickup page can be ignored, and everything is happening here.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 17, 2020, 13:39:45
I might be up for getting involved in this.

I take it areas need to be roughly the same size/shape as the original?
Talps, can you confirm you are still interested, and what would you like to do? tileset? level editing? and which one do you wish to claim?
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Talps on November 17, 2020, 20:26:29
I need to play the level again before committing, but I think I'd be up for doing an area.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on November 18, 2020, 02:34:38
This project intrigues me, but I don't understand what you want on a visual level. So, I did a small update to the infamous tileset6. I made it look more like what I think Nifflas was trying to convey. (See Image.) Am I on the right track here or have I strayed too far from Nifflas' style?
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: sergiocornaga on November 18, 2020, 06:31:46
This project intrigues me, but I don't understand what you want on a visual level. So, I did a small update to the infamous tileset6. I made it look more like what I think Nifflas was trying to convey. (See Image.) Am I on the right track here or have I strayed too far from Nifflas' style?

This seems great! Hopefully ncrecc will be happy to use it. This project is kind of untrodden ground*, so I think it's up to us to decide what it means, and I approve of your interpretation.

* and also, kind of, the exact opposite of that too, haha
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 18, 2020, 13:42:22
Looks good. :)
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: ixMarcel on November 19, 2020, 01:08:27
I'd be happy to contribute by remaking the Snow area. Playing through that part of "The Machine" is one of the most memorable KS experiences for me (it was back when I first played the game and loved it so much I stayed up long into the night until I practically fell asleep on the keyboard while listening to the Snow area theme).
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Talps on November 19, 2020, 01:43:33
Well, having just played through, I was thinking I could do the Black and Dus- awwwwwwwwwww...
I was gonna make it a techno lava mountain and everything... :(

Lotsa open space and both jumps really early... this really does not suit my style... But I'll grab the Ghost Zone methinks.

Questions:
Also your list seems to be missing Henna's home and the Machine Cave. And the blue spiky ninjary cave. And the passage to the wrong machine.


On a final note, it feels really weird to not be putting everything in spoiler tags...
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 19, 2020, 11:39:20
I'd be happy to contribute by remaking the Snow area. Playing through that part of "The Machine" is one of the most memorable KS experiences for me (it was back when I first played the game and loved it so much I stayed up long into the night until I practically fell asleep on the keyboard while listening to the Snow area theme).

Which area is the snow area, is this iceland or christmas land or another not listed area?

Well, having just played through, I was thinking I could do the Black and Dus- awwwwwwwwwww...
I was gonna make it a techno lava mountain and everything... :(

Lotsa open space and both jumps really early... this really does not suit my style... But I'll grab the Ghost Zone methinks.
Great. :) I'll put you on the list.


Questions:
  • Are we using KS+?
  • What is our aim for difficulty/are we creating variable difficulties?
  • What is the difference between Christmas Land and Ice Land (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland_(supermarket))?
Also your list seems to be missing Henna's home and the Machine Cave. And the blue spiky ninjary cave. And the passage to the wrong machine.


On a final note, it feels really weird to not be putting everything in spoiler tags...

- Is there a reason to go for KS+? As in, are we going to specifically use features KS+ offers?
- We could do both difficulties, then again, we can also just settle for Hard only, which I think is perfectly acceptable.
- I don't know what the difference is between Christmas Land and Iceland.  During the early discussions on Discord someone gave this list of areas and I just used that.

I was thinking to give each area a number based on what tileset is used in there, given that each area has a distinct look, and thus the different tileset number. We could then also set the music to the same number and refer to that number instead of a name that may or may not mean the same to everyone.

What are your thoughts?

Also, to ncrecc and Sergio Cornaga: Can both of you confirm that you still want to do your area? If by the end of november there is no reaction to this question, I'll remove you from the list to keep the pace up. No need to actually show me work, just curious if you are still interested in this.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: sergiocornaga on November 19, 2020, 14:50:54
I still plan to contribute, yes.

Here is the map the area names are from:
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/352591530701225985/754966647994974268/MachineZones.png) (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/352591530701225985/754966647994974268/MachineZones.png)
Christmas Land is named as such because it's red and green. I think we should just keep using these names, though they need not strictly dictate how areas be divided.

I would prefer this to be a vanilla rather than KS+ level.

Also, I posted this on Discord already, but I suggest the title "Another Machine".
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Talps on November 19, 2020, 15:28:20
- Is there a reason to go for KS+? As in, are we going to specifically use features KS+ offers?

Overlays, attachments, overridden objects... I'm just chewing on ideas at the moment, but there are some KS+ additions I wouldn't leave home without these days.

However, if the overriding opinion is against, I'll make do with vanilla. I can see that would feel truer to the original.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on November 21, 2020, 12:52:12
Although I don't think I can commit to making regular contributions right now, I might be able to contribute from time to time by making modded tilesets if that's OK with you guys.

Here's a quick remix of tileset #13 (and its matching gradient) with different patterns and a few new additions. Feel free to use it if you like it. The transparent glowing corners and crystal tiles have square collision masks and can be used in layer 3 to decorate solid walls.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: StraightFlame on November 21, 2020, 17:03:23
I just had a look at my area with the tileset and gradient VG posted.


I'm not sure what to say. I don't really know whether i prefer the vanilla tileset or this one; i kinda miss the diagonal squares pattern thingy, and the background stuff in my area was made with the perfectly straight diagonals in mind. But aside from that, i really like how this tileset looks and i absolutely don't mind if this is what we're gonna be using in the level. I've attached a version of my area that has VG's tileset and gradient, and also added in the corner light thingy tiles VG decided to make (which i really appreciate by the way).

Also, LPChip, i said i only used tileset 13 for this area, but as it turns out, i completely forgot that the clouds are from tileset 10. That one's also used for the Christmas Land area, though, so it's probably gonna get edited anyway.

Also also,
Well, having just played through, I was thinking I could do the Black and Dus- awwwwwwwwwww...
I was gonna make it a techno lava mountain and everything... :(
Now i kinda feel bad. I would've loved to see what that would look like.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Talps on November 21, 2020, 17:44:43
Its fine, now I'm gonna make a secret haunted mine under a forest.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on November 21, 2020, 23:13:17
Here's a slightly different version of my modded Dysprosium tileset featuring background tiles with straight diagonal borders, in case you guys prefer that look.

Also, I think I'll give remixing/remaking tileset #21 a shot.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Talps on November 21, 2020, 23:26:35
Also, I think I'll give remixing/remaking tileset #21 a shot.

I was planning on making a separate set for the underground section (which I plan to extend) and copying the above-ground area pretty closely. If you want to remix the tree set, that would be cool. I was also gonna see if I could find a set that would let me do mountaintops-emerging-from-mist in the far background.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on November 22, 2020, 03:47:47
It hit me last night that I could do the cutscenes. The first scene in Endless Winter takes cues from the first scene in The Machine, so if I remade the scenes of The Machine in the style of Endless Winter... *bliss*

Also, I've gone overboard with Tileset6. It's still a work in progress, but I'll post soon.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: ixMarcel on November 22, 2020, 12:15:52
I meant to say, I want to claim Ice Land (Hologram area)
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on November 22, 2020, 12:54:40
I was planning on making a separate set for the underground section (which I plan to extend) and copying the above-ground area pretty closely. If you want to remix the tree set, that would be cool.

That's pretty much what I did. I've attached both a basic version, which has less detail but probably meshes together better with the other areas, and a somewhat more detailed one that looks better but might clash a bit too much with the undetailed background trees in other default sets. Feel free to choose! But choose wisely, for while the correct tileset will bring you life...

I also modified gradient #21 to make it just a tad more colorful, but since I just read that you're planning on going with a more "misty" look for this area, I'll try to make an alternate version with that in mind and then post both edits.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 22, 2020, 21:55:43
So much going on here. Great! I am lacking behind in keeping things updated. Sorry about that. My time is limited right now. Will try to update it shortly, and I'm also looking into somehow allowing others to modify the lists in the first post.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on November 22, 2020, 23:33:08
Advice needed: I'm really struggling with one final detail on Tileset6. I wanted to make the sea floor look like natural coral while also looking like Nifflas' simple patterns. I'm starting to think I should leave it the way it was. Here are 3 attempts from me and the original. (see below)



Edit: I went ahead and finished the set with original style sea floor tiles. It expanded to two tilesets. The second set has a big set piece meant to be that main entrance below the start area. I post these without an demand for their use. I leave it up to the person actually designing the area.

Usage notes: The distant sea floor tiles are semitransparent, so they can be used with most gradient. The blue semitransparent tile in set 6 is meant to be put over flooded interior spaces.

Edit again: The tileset images have been removed. There are newer versions in a recent post.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: plural on November 23, 2020, 08:01:13
Those edits of the pipes are so goddamn good.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 23, 2020, 08:41:32
Small update from my end. I found a way to add the ability to edit a section of the first post. True, I first have to develop it further, so its currently not possible for others to edit the first post, but if all goes well, there will be a possibility to edit the project part in the first post to tell others what you did, claim sections, etc. :)
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: ixMarcel on November 23, 2020, 12:25:13
Advice needed: I'm really struggling with one final detail on Tileset6. I wanted to make the sea floor look like natural coral while also looking like Nifflas' simple patterns. I'm starting to think I should leave it the way it was. Here are 3 attempts from me and the original. (see below)

Definitely use one of these, it'd be a shame not to have fun and mix things up in this proejct. I like the top-left the most, thought the bottom-left seems a bit more classic KS-like.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Talps on November 23, 2020, 14:04:52
Advice needed: I'm really struggling with one final detail on Tileset6. I wanted to make the sea floor look like natural coral while also looking like Nifflas' simple patterns. I'm starting to think I should leave it the way it was. Here are 3 attempts from me and the original. (see below)

Definitely use one of these, it'd be a shame not to have fun and mix things up in this proejct. I like the top-left the most, thought the bottom-left seems a bit more classic KS-like.

I thought the top two both looked fantastic; it'd be a shame not to use one of them. I think the top right best matches the KS aesthetic.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: sergiocornaga on November 23, 2020, 14:09:27
Advice needed: I'm really struggling with one final detail on Tileset6. I wanted to make the sea floor look like natural coral while also looking like Nifflas' simple patterns. I'm starting to think I should leave it the way it was. Here are 3 attempts from me and the original. (see below)

Definitely use one of these, it'd be a shame not to have fun and mix things up in this proejct. I like the top-left the most, thought the bottom-left seems a bit more classic KS-like.

I thought the top two both looked fantastic; it'd be a shame not to use one of them. I think the top right best matches the KS aesthetic.

I was thinking the top left pattern for foreground blocks with a slightly lower contrast version of the bottom left pattern for background blocks might look good. Top right is a fantastic take on the coral concept. It has slightly too many colours and looks too three-dimensional to fit the KS aesthetic for me, but I'm probably just being pedantic.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: plural on November 23, 2020, 15:23:28
I'll do tileset 22/the yellow zone. Already started.

(https://i.imgur.com/CYBnfY5.gif)
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Talps on November 23, 2020, 16:23:22
Aaaand Plural wins the beautiful design contest. :P Awesome to have you involved!
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Fubaka on November 23, 2020, 20:45:40
Hoy, I want in on this collab! Looking at the current to-do list, here's what I'd like to claim:


Also, I'd like to know if there are any more requirements than currently lain out on the first post (and if I could get linked to the songs that LPChip has completed so far, that would also be good).
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 23, 2020, 22:46:48
With the little time I have currently, I've created a much better looking project list where with a bit of additional work, I can actually create a public editor, so anyone can make changes.

The list is not up-to-date with all the changes in the topic though. You guys are working hard! And it rocks. Good stuff! :) Fubaka, if you are on Discord, I have the songs on there. I'll repost them in the alternate machine discord channel for you.

Also, please let me know what song id is for the green land area.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Fubaka on November 23, 2020, 22:55:15
Fubaka, if you are on Discord, I have the songs on there. I'll repost them in the alternate machine discord channel for you.

Also, please let me know what song id is for the green land area.

Sounds good. Should be able to snag those from the Discord (whether you see me there or not. :P )

Also, Green Land uses Song01 (Arrivée distante).
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 23, 2020, 23:07:44
I've already completed song 1 as the list mentions.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Fubaka on November 23, 2020, 23:25:49
I've already completed song 1 as the list mentions.
Yes, I saw that. I assumed I'd be using your song for the area I build.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on November 24, 2020, 01:03:00
Thanks for all the feed back on my coral selection. The top-left is the first one I made and the most favored. I'll see if I can refine it into something I'm satisfied with. I'm with you on the top-right Sergio, too 3D.

Those edits of the pipes are so [censored]plus plus[/censored] good.
Thanks for the lovely compliments.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 24, 2020, 08:32:37
I've already completed song 1 as the list mentions.
Yes, I saw that. I assumed I'd be using your song for the area I build.

Sorry, I completely misread your post. I read it as: I want to make music for that area, not making the actual area. lol
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 24, 2020, 11:50:34
I'll do tileset 22/the yellow zone. Already started.

(https://i.imgur.com/CYBnfY5.gif)

This looks neat plural! Are you doing the tileset only, or also the level itself? Can I sign you up for both?
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: plural on November 24, 2020, 12:35:06
This looks neat plural! Are you doing the tileset only, or also the level itself? Can I sign you up for both?
Sorry, I could have been more clear. I meant both the tileset edit and the area design.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 24, 2020, 13:30:40
Great! I've signed you up. :)
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on November 24, 2020, 14:59:20
Here are tilesets 6 and 7 again. (Old versions taken down) I reworked the coral a bit and am much happier with it. I also adjusted some other pieces and filled up most of the unused spaces. The sample picture contains colored notations which I'll explain:
Red: For tiles that combine collision and decorative parts, I've made separate collision-only tiles. Collision elements are bordered in black and non-collision elements are bordered in dark blue for the most part.
Yellow: Where pipes connect to coral or ground from other tilesets, place these tiles on a borderless center piece to create the look of a tunnel.
Green: To break up the monotony, there are these shell pieces. If you look closely you can see a similar treatment on the interior tiles. Use them sparsely.
Purple: I think we should either use shadows everywhere or nowhere throughout the level. I like a simple one to two tile vertical shadow as I had in Shipwrecked. I've combined shadows with the interior water here for ease of use incase shadows get approval.

@LPChip: Sign me up for cutscenes, please.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 24, 2020, 15:04:24
@egomassive: done. :)
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: ixMarcel on November 24, 2020, 20:08:33
Here's my finished take on the Ice Land. I really liked the large waterfalls in the original, though we never got to see any pools of water there... I decided to change that in my rendition, adding some flair to the area. I hope this will be a worthy addition to the project, and I'm curious how it'll look once someone capable remixes the tileset and music. Oh, and by the way, I placed the yellow key in this area. Someone better keep track of that stuff.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on November 25, 2020, 01:12:14
Oh, and by the way, I placed the yellow key in this area. Someone better keep track of that stuff.
My thoughts: For simplicity, we should keep item placement and power requirements the same as in the original. Say, if you needed  the high-jump to get into an area before then that's how we should have it. If an area contained the yellow key before, then it should contain the yellow key here. Secrets can require higher abilities, but make sure players can't get stuck.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: plural on November 25, 2020, 02:00:14
My thoughts: For simplicity, we should keep item placement and power requirements the same as in the original. Say, if you needed  the high-jump to get into an area before then that's how we should have it. If an area contained the yellow key before, then it should contain the yellow key here. Secrets can require higher abilities, but make sure players can't get stuck.
I very much agree with this, if only because I've been designing my area around needing to get the umbrella to be able to get back out of it. If we were to mix it up then we'd need to agree on, at the very least, power order to know what would be the appropriate design for challenges in each area.

As an example of why this would get complicated or not work at all: If someone designed their area that comes before the yellow zone that needed the umbrella to get through so they put that power in their area, then why would anyone ever even need to go through the yellow zone at all? They could just skip it.

For this reason I think the power order should stay the same and the areas connecting zones should stay the same or very similar (ie the connecting area coming from the yellow zone needs the umbrella to get past it, thus forcing the exploration of the yellow zone. So, that area at least should require the umbrella to get through it even if it's redesigned).
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: sergiocornaga on November 25, 2020, 04:17:53
That reminds me, should we bother to have two difficulty levels like the original, or should we just stick to one?
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: ixMarcel on November 25, 2020, 15:38:38
Oh, and by the way, I placed the yellow key in this area. Someone better keep track of that stuff.
My thoughts: For simplicity, we should keep item placement and power requirements the same as in the original. Say, if you needed  the high-jump to get into an area before then that's how we should have it. If an area contained the yellow key before, then it should contain the yellow key here. Secrets can require higher abilities, but make sure players can't get stuck.

But the yellow key was in the Ice Land area in the original  :bebisharen:

That reminds me, should we bother to have two difficulty levels like the original, or should we just stick to one?

I think this could be a one-man-job once the level is put together. It'd be best if one person is tasked with balancing the difficulty across the level than to make everyone do it in parts.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 25, 2020, 16:38:15
I'm fine with both having one difficulty or two, but tasking it to one person, really.

The reason why I would go against it, is: Nifflas created 2 versions because he wanted people to offer the Knytt experience, or give them a bit of a challenge depending on what they wanted. Given that we are so many years ahead now, if people want the knytt experience, there are loads of levels that would do it for them, to which I'd say, we could get away with only the hard difficulty. It being the alternate dimension, it would totally be okay too.

But this thought also came from the moment when this project hadn't yet taken of at the speed it currently is travelling. Designing 2 areas is more work than doing one, which is why I initially thought we should just do one, so the project has a chance to succeed.

Given that the offer is now: one person does it after all areas are completed to balance things out, that would basically mean: we do a 2nd difficulty once the project already is near completion, so if for some reason no one wants to do that part, we still have a functional level.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Comhon on November 25, 2020, 18:27:30
So, after the yesterday attempt to remember my level editing skills, I have dediced to join and do my part on the Christmas Land.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 25, 2020, 22:37:22
Eh... based on what you shared on the discord, I thought you already finished it... :P Unless that is what you meant. :P
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on November 27, 2020, 16:31:35
Having multiple difficulties is rarely done anymore so I thought it would be a nice throwback to the early days, but I have to agree with LPChip. Getting one complete area from each participant in a timely manner would be a great community achievement. Also, nerfing a level is a lot easier than making good, hard challenges, so ixMarcel's idea of having one person make the second half is reasonable.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: StraightFlame on November 29, 2020, 14:57:39
Since we've got 3 adjacent areas now (not sure if Christmas Land is 100% finished, though), i've combined them all into one level. I've also added Fubaka's remix of Song6, and finished x1006y996 of my area. The idea was to have ixMarcel finish that screen, but since he didn't include it in his area (and it's not exactly the most exciting screen in the level anyway) i just decided to do it myself. Hopefully he doesn't mind.

Edit: Level is too big to attach. Gonna post it on Discord.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on November 29, 2020, 21:14:44
Forgot to post an update here.

The first page now has an edit button so anyone can edit the lists.

The page itself has a bit of a weird syntax, invented by me. Its use is to create text that is very readable, so its easy to edit, but translate to great visuals when submitting the edit. The screen splits in half, the other half shows realtime what your edits will produce, any error is immediately spotted before even submitting the page. Do note, you HAVE TO press update to commit changes, or nothing happens.

Also, if 2 people edit the page at the same time, one can easily overwrite the changes of someone else. Each change is saved so I can undo vandalism easily and also restore massive edits that got overwritten by a second edit as written as above. So if that happens, let me know that it happened and give me a time of when you pressed the update button and a short summary of what your edit was about, so I can manually fix it.

I also built in an option to completely disable the editor in case of abuse or serious bug etc, to give me time to fix things.

If it seems that the editor cannot be publicly available without misuse, I can create a password protected setup and only allow people with the password to make changes. Lets hope it doesn't have to come to that though, but if seach engines find the page and starts messing with it (has happened before) then I will have to.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on December 02, 2020, 13:53:57
I played through the original today, and remembered an old myth about the level. In the green land there's a section of ceiling where players can make it across several screens. It seems you could go even further if you tried hard enough. People would do this hoping to find some well hidden secret, but there wasn't one. It would be most satisfying if a secret could be placed there in our update.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Talps on December 06, 2020, 13:29:26
Click here to download my area combined with Plural's. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nuqiu5a65ga3ob3/Nifforum%20-%20ARM%20Ghost%20and%20Yellow%20Zones.knytt.bin?dl=0)

I removed the music from the two rightmost screens of Plural's area so that it would play again on your way back west. Feel free to undo this anyone if you think it was unwise.

Those ghosts really know how to jam. :)


EDIT: Oh, I should definitely state somewhere that the fire CO was made by Vegetal Gibber.

Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on December 08, 2020, 20:41:08
Here's a remake/remix/remaster/resomething of Tileset #26 I just finished. Feel free to use it in your version of the Ice Land area if you fancy it, ixMarcel.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on December 09, 2020, 09:33:29
I like that VG. It's beautiful but retains the Nifflas' KS feel.

Edit: I've tinkered with the start/end area tilesets, and I like how it's going so far. I've decided to claim them. (Just the tilesets not the design.)
Edit Again: On second thought, I'll do the start/end area section.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on December 10, 2020, 21:48:02
That's exactly what I'm going for with these remixes, so it's great to hear I succeeded. Glad you liked it.

I think I'll take a stab at remaking the Inaccurate Asia mini-area, so I went ahead and claimed that one for the time being.

Also, I made a remixed version of tileset #10 just for the heck of it and then noticed the slot was already claimed. Because you see, I don't like to go to bed every night before making some very poor decisions :crazy:
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: sergiocornaga on December 11, 2020, 08:06:37
Also, I made a remixed version of tileset #10 just for the heck of it and then noticed the slot was already claimed. Because you see, I don't like to go to bed every night before making some very poor decisions :crazy:

I'd still love to see it! I've attached the other version, which was posted in the Discord server.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on December 11, 2020, 14:31:56
Also, I made a remixed version of tileset #10 just for the heck of it and then noticed the slot was already claimed. Because you see, I don't like to go to bed every night before making some very poor decisions :crazy:
I only contributed the trees there. I tried to do them in the way you had been doing trees. I'd love to see how your genuine VG makeover compares to my imitation VG makeover.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on December 13, 2020, 17:01:42
It's just a quick remaster-thingy with no new tiles added, but since you guys insist, here it is. The only tiles I made a bit more distinct are the clouds and the grass (the latter being a modified version of the curly grass I drew in my version of tileset #21). Feel free to re-use those or combine both sets in any other way you want.

Edit: Screenshot added just so the clouds can be seen without having to download/try out the tileset (since I just noticed they are not visible at all if you're using the white background theme):

(https://vegetal.eb-creativos.com/ksstuff/wip/tileset10_vg_test.png)


Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on December 13, 2020, 19:22:13
Here's a first draft of my alternate rendition of the Inaccurate Asia mini-area. I took the liberty to expand it a bit (hopefully not too much) since the original was so tiny.

(https://vegetal.eb-creativos.com/ksstuff/wip/ARM_Inaccurate_Asia.png)
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on December 14, 2020, 14:21:35
Oh no! I switched those little trees in my edit of orange grass. Hopefully I didn't mess Comhon up too much with his level designing.

@VG: Going bolder with the roots is a daring move I didn't expect, but I guess you had to do something with them in order to keep the same layout. I like the curly grass, though I'm a little worried that too much fluffy grass will outshine the fuzziness of the turquoise caves. I have an idea of how I would edit those tiles, but I know Sergio can do it himself. His Vestiges tileset is one of the most popular custom tilesets out there.

Asia needed to be larger. I think most players will get there with the high-jump and they may have the umbrella and hologram powers, so make sure it plays as intended. That gray bouncer jumps higher when you have high-jump.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Comhon on December 16, 2020, 09:41:25
Oh no! I switched those little trees in my edit of orange grass. Hopefully I didn't mess Comhon up too much with his level designing.
Hmm, I did not notice that. However there was something I noticed, a strange blocky things appearing at the base of the big trees. But that is fine, it was a quick fix and additionally thanks to egomassive we have a better "flow" in this area :)
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on December 17, 2020, 02:33:53
Here is the start area mended with the other completed/prototype sections. Feedback is welcome.
Link Removed: See below for newer version
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: StraightFlame on December 21, 2020, 11:29:41
VG and i had a bit of a conversation. I don't remember exactly what i said, but basically, i mentioned somewhere that while i do like the tileset VG made for the Black and Dusty area, i would've preferred to use the vanilla tileset (mainly because of nostalgia). VG noticed, and offered to make an edit of his tileset where the background tiles look more like the ones from the vanilla tileset.

So now we have this. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/fgxtw1ngjz8jgjj/Nifforum%20-%20ARM%208%20Parts.knytt.bin?dl=0) A slightly more nostalgia-compliant version of my area.

I also took this opportunity to fix an SGE Sergio pointed out to me last month.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on December 23, 2020, 15:13:23
I don't have much to contribute at this time except for a tiny update to the Inaccurate Asia mini-area. I just made a few minor changes (such as replacing one of the bouncers with the gray one, as ego suggested) and also added an easter egg thingy at the very left of the area.

[ ARM - 22 Dec 2020 Build (https://www.dropbox.com/s/t4b14b0t5x1kx76/Nifforum%20-%20ARM%208%20Parts.knytt.bin?dl=0) ]

If anyone'd like me to take a crack at remixing any specific tileset, let me know.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on January 04, 2021, 11:50:32
How are people with area's they are working on? Also, at this point, I am very much in favor for people who already finished one area, to claim another one. The project is up and running long enough to consider that no new people will join in.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on January 04, 2021, 19:51:03
I don't think I'll be doing any more level design besides the small bit I did, at least for now. However, if anyone claims one of the remaining areas and would like to request a remixed tileset for it, feel free to ping me (via post or PM). The offer extends to anyone who is already working on an area but would rather focus on level design without doing graphics work.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on January 04, 2021, 19:56:45
I'll claim another area when I finish my entry for the un-epic level competition. I still have cutscene work to do here, but it's mostly inserting screen shots of places that don't exist yet (and making Juni's arms black.)
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Talps on January 04, 2021, 20:31:44
I guess I'll go ahead and claim the blue area under the misty woods.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: StraightFlame on January 05, 2021, 07:33:51
I was actually thinking about doing that area, since i don't think i ever made any umbrella-related challenges before.

So i guess we're even now?
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Polana on February 14, 2021, 21:36:10
So, Egomassive asked me via PM if I would be interested in joining you all in making this level and taking the Green land part. Since no. 19 was always one of my favourite tilesets, I'd love to do it. I'm officially claiming that section and I'd like to remix tileset 19 a bit (but keeping it green).

Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on February 14, 2021, 22:32:41
So, Egomassive asked me via PM if I would be interested in joining you all in making this level and taking the Green land part. Since no. 19 was always one of my favourite tilesets, I'd love to do it. I'm officially claiming that section and I'd like to remix tileset 19 a bit (but keeping it green).



Great! :)

Feel free to also edit the first post (the edit button is just above the credits section) and put yourself on the list. That way you can also keep track of your progress and all of us can see it directly. :)
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Polana on February 14, 2021, 23:57:30
Done. Prepare for waterfall madness.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on February 21, 2021, 20:10:17
This is an update on some of the things happening on Discord. The attached images are work-in-progress screens from ncrecc and I. Most of the discussion about this project (and everything else) takes place on the Discord (https://nifflas.lp1.nl/index.php?topic=6909).
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Polana on February 24, 2021, 01:32:35
There are some test screens for remixed tileset 19. I am not sure whether I should use those brown background blocks at the left side of screenshot or only the green ones at the right side.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Talps on February 24, 2021, 01:34:09
I think both colours work! They give it depth.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Polana on February 24, 2021, 02:32:02
Thanks.

I don't like how the brown blocks look together with those mid-ground trees, but on the other hand, I also don't like how that green background hills look when used for higher platforms and caves. Guess the tileset still needs some work.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on February 24, 2021, 21:21:46
@Polana: To my eye the brown blocks are closer than the trees, so they shouldn't be layered behind the trees. Otherwise make them cooler in color than the foreground. Warmer colors are perceived as closer.

PS: It's beautiful. Looking forward to playing it.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Polana on February 25, 2021, 01:12:36
Yeah, you're right. I wanted to see how that trees would look in front of brown blocks, but now I think I'll have green hills and trees for more distant background and keep brown blocks for inside of caves etc. only. I never really thought about the colour and distance thing, but it makes sense.

Also, I really like your take on The most overused tileset in historyTM and can't wait to play that part of level.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: canteven / ncrecc on April 20, 2021, 19:13:07
Talps has recently unclaimed the Spike Caves, so that and the Wrong Machine Cave (the leadup to the secret ending beneath the Spike Caves) are the last unclaimed areas. I'll claim them iff no-one else does over the next 30 days.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Vreschen on September 09, 2021, 06:03:34
I'm claiming "North & South", by the way.
This would be song number 10 on the list.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: egomassive on September 09, 2021, 07:17:30
I put you in as Vreschen. Let us know if you prefer to be credited as Nagamiya, Erakion, or something else. I also added all the tileset credits I know of.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: Vreschen on September 09, 2021, 22:41:05
There's one problem that makes "North & South" unnecessarily complicated, and that's the lack of a coherent BPM. Either D Fast programmed the song in uncommon time, or the samples are layered such that you can't conventionally measure out how fast the song is going. Either way, it's frustrating.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: LPChip on September 10, 2021, 08:34:11
There's one problem that makes "North & South" unnecessarily complicated, and that's the lack of a coherent BPM. Either D Fast programmed the song in uncommon time, or the samples are layered such that you can't conventionally measure out how fast the song is going. Either way, it's frustrating.
Yes, that was one of the issues I had with it too. Note that you don't actually have to keep up with the exact songlength and BPM. You can just eyeball it if you wish. Its supposed to be a remix, not a remake. If I were not this uncomfortable with the genre that fits the song best, I would've made the song already.

So the best approach here is to put the original in a track at low volume and play along with that, section by section until you have enough that you can remove the original. But even then, its still hard, agreed. No quantization etc...
Title: Re: Knytt Stories Level: The Alternate Reality Machine (working-title)
Post by: sergiocornaga on September 12, 2021, 12:25:36
You may find it helps to refer to the original version of North & South (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJeEe4O8cKg), which has added percussion.