Nifflas' Support Forum
Released Games => Knytt Underground => Topic started by: KnyttInGod on July 05, 2013, 22:42:18
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This is directly to Nifflas. Nif, I gotta say, Underground was a BIG disappointment to a few people. It just didn't have that old charm of Knytt and KS. So here are my ideas of how to possibly make Knytt 4 a lot better. Also, in NO WAY am I saying complete Experiment. These are just ideas I have that you could use in Knytt 4
1. keep old pixel design: this is pretty big, in Knytt and Knytt Stories, the pixel design made it feel so simple yet so good. It really helped you get into the environment. In Underground, the huge stylized graphics made it seem too... well Overblown in my opinion.
2.Keep story simple: Another big one here. Nifflas, I see what your trying to do. Your trying to tell a complex story. But it just doesn't work for this kind of game. In the originals. The Simple story didn't make you have all this information going around your head. It made you calming and made you feel more relatable to Knytt and Juni
3.Level system: This one isn't a complaint, more of a complex idea. My idea of how to make levels in Knytt 4 is to have a starting level when you first get the game. Then every now and then, you could hold a contest to see who's best level could be in the game. Then you would leave a download link to an editor for people to create levels. Then once the contest is done, you could look at all the submitted levels and decide on which one will be added to an update. When it's all done you could wait till a next contest rolls in.
So those are my ideas of how to make a next Knytt installment work. I hope you enjoyed this Nifflas and all see you all later
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First of all, its not wise to speak on behalf of many people. You say "to many people" but according to the statistics it says the other way around. There are always a few people who don't like changes and have high expectations. According to feedback from many, many people and reviews I've read, most people actually love Knytt Underground, and call it Nifflas' best game even.
I'll reply to your 3 suggestions and give some info. This however is my view on things and does not reflect the opinion of anyone else, even though others probably share my opinion.
1. This is really debatable. I like the old feeling, but at the same time, I also love the appeal the new look gives. Nifflas just made a turn and likes this better. He was done with the old ways I guess. Maybe at a later stage he'll merge the two somehow, but I honestly love this more than the old pixellated view. The pixellated view looks a bit outdated to me to be honest. Sure its easy to make tilesets that way, but this new look has something on its own too. Instead of focussing on all the walls you cannot reach, the focus is brought to those areas you actually can reach, and gives a more "inside" feel.
2. You're wrong here. All Nifflas' games have a big story. The only difference is that KU is the first game that uses a different approach to tell the story. Yes, even games such as Knytt and WaDF have a story to tell. They are all linked together. The difference is that those games focus more on the gameplay than telling the story. Nifflas wanted to go a new path by actually incorporating story telling, and I have to admit, he did a wonderful job. Sure, a lot of information to grasp. I have to agree here, but that just only makes it so much more fun to replay the game a few times. Each time you get new pieces of the story you missed last time. Its like seeing one of those complex movies for the 2nd time and discovering new things you didn't know.
3. This will most likely not happen simply because it requires a tremendous effort to keep such system up and running. Nifflas experimented with this in the form of Knytt Experiment, and he learned that, not only does it takes a lot of time to do quality control, it also seems that with so many different people, the quality and context of the levels are so diverse that it just doesn't fit together as a whole. If you then decide to only allow the best levels, you'll step on way too many toes to go into the trouble at the first place.
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with #3, your response had one flaw, if the worst levels are the easiest, then maybe have difficulty levels
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with #3, your response had one flaw, if the worst levels are the easiest, then maybe have difficulty levels
No the worst levels are those that lack any graphical appeal or simply contain bugs. Like falling though a floor that is not supposed to be, or make a jump where the author thinks its impossible which leads to void screens, or even where the author just made one long horizontal level just to be in the game (yes I've seen that one too)
EDIT: I forgot to mention, that if custom music/sound is a factor, it can be also that one screen/level has soft ambient music where the next has loud music and a third has no additional sound at all.
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KnyttInGod, I don't seem to agree with anything so far that you claim to be popular opinion. I can only suggest that when you post, you ensure that you post in a way that confirms that perhaps only you feel this way. It's usually a better bet. So take this with a grain of salt, but..
I appreciate you taking the time to say what you didn't like about KU, but.. I think the attempt at explaining it turned into more of a complaint than anything helpful for Nifflas. He doesn't/shouldn't need to be told how to make his next games. I realize it's tempting to try to inform him of errors you personally find, but make sure you do just that- inform. The other thing to remember is exactly what I said- make sure you do it in a way that insist it's your opinion. He's more likely to listen (even in a small way) if you're giving advice, not actually discrediting his previous job(s) at it. People really don't enjoy being told that all the work they spent is disliked, and much less so if you're telling them how to do it 'better' by your own personal opinion.
As for the graphics, it's a different style. It's fine for you to think the old style was superior, but it's important to realize that Nifflas was trying new things with this game. So the graphics a different than they used to be. It fits the game, in my opinion, and it's really tough to say that they aren't just as good as the old graphics, as far as quality goes.
Story is more or less the same thing. And as LPChip said, the story was always there, it just wasn't upfront about it. It's a different style game, and a different way of telling a story. If you aren't fond a deep story (that's 'hard' to follow), perhaps KU isn't for you.
As for your third point, there's not much to say there. Nifflas might release an editor- I don't know. As for quality, that's the tough part (and I'm not sure what you meant about difficulty meaning quality, since if you've played KS, you know it's untrue). Nifflas likes to make sure that things of quality are made for his games. How he does it is up to him..and even -if- he does it, is up to him. Your suggestion might give him ideas, but I don't expect him to follow it- neither should you, really.
Anyway, I'm sorry for seeming harsh at all, it's just that your posts seem somewhat expectant that Nifflas should accept your post at face-value, but the truth is that it's your opinion, and yours alone, mostly.
EDIT: As an added note, I should reiterate that there's nothing confirming a Knytt "4" yet, and there's no reason to really suggest things about something we can't be sure will even exist yet. (By the way, Knytt, Knytt Stories, Saria, Knytt Underground, The Great Work, (and some relation to the WADF games, too)...makes it more than 3 Knytt games therefore; not Knytt "4")
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for all complainers read this:http://pixelsordeath.com/the-long/the-sad-story-of-knytt-underground
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I really hate to say it, but you're the one complaining about the game...not us. So saying something like 'for all the complainers'...sort of makes it a bit backwards to me.
And as for the link itself- it doesn't change my opinion anymore than my words change yours. I'm just stating in my post that if you're going to complain, try to realize that not everything thinks that way.
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you know what this is done im just not a fan of underground ok, well im just done with this topic, what started off as just me giving ideas is now an argument over KU
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I try to create all my games as if it is my only. Today I sometimes regret creating Knytt, and Knytt Stories, because the game achieved a popularity that I haven't been able to reproduce. Instead of being happy about everybody who enjoys Underground (and there are plenty of people who really loved both the story and graphics), I often end up comparing what I do with the success of my previous games, and I just end up feeling like I have no relevance in the game industry today. Don't ask me why, but it's so much easier to focus on something negative than positive. Then I have to remind myself why I do this; to create the games I want to create and explore the atmosphere, graphical styles, gameplay mechanics, and stories I personally want to explore. People always compare my new titles with my old titles far more than I do myself.
Comments that tells me to stop exploring what I want, in place of creating whatever you think will be more successful and liked... It just pulls me away from game development and uninspires (is there such a word?) me to continue. It's simply not why I do this. One of the weirdest problems I'm facing is related to this; the kind of article you link to can get me down for a day, sometimes several days. I spent two and a half years on this game that I deeply care for and expresses something that's very personal to me, so the effect even reading a title named "the stad story of Knytt Underground", it's like a blow to my heart. The irony is of course that people who (not on purpose of course) hurt and may eventually make me stop developing games (even though I'll convert my game company into a beer brewery, so it's okay) consists almost entirely of people who liked my old ones. I haven't ruled out rebooting under a new name so that people won't know what I have created before.
In the beginning, I didn't care about these things. I had fun and created games. Before Knytt, there were no expectations and no reputation. I created stuff just for the heck of it, and some people liked it and I was happy about that. Others didn't care about me or anything I did. That's how I'd like things to be.
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First off, I will say that I loved Knytt and Knytt Stories. I absolutely love Knytt Underground though. It's a game that focuses on exploration, it has a deep story and it's a game that you can play just for the fun of it. You don't have to get the achievements but they are there if you want to get them. I have gotten tired of the massive budget titles that have only shiny graphics to offer and no real depth to them. I think that is why I have been more apt to spend time playing more indie titles like this because it has a lot more to say then the other crap. It has a wide appeal to it and it has a decent challenge to it without being sadistic about it. I had read that review and it just sounds like the person just has no sense as to what a good game is. Nifflas, KU is a fantastic game and you are a wonderful developer. What you did as far as getting me a download code so I can have the PC version now is something that I think is absolutely effing awesome. I am absolutely geeked as a gamer to even have the opportunity to even interact with you at this level and I feel that is something that I personally will keep with me. I will always be a fan of your games and I cannot wait to see what more you have to offer. If you ever do open a brewery though, I'm telling you, where I live is prime real estate for that considering we just won the title of beer city usa. That's a whole different story entirely though! ;)
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Thank you for telling me that :)
Thing is, I've heard those negative opinion from more places. There are plenty of people who think the story kind of sucks and that the pixely style of my previous games were much better. On the other hand, there are DeceasedCrab's LP's which makes me super happy, and there are also lots of people who have really loved the story and the characters. I always strive to be at peace with that. Like, some like my games, others don't, the ratio is different for each game but that's okay. It's oddly harder than it sounds when negative comments affect me so much more than positive ones. At least I know many other creators has expressed the exact same problem - I've heard about creators of some games far more successful than mine who still get very affected by negative comments because they're so attached to their work. It's odd how the brain works X)
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I definitely understand! You do great work though so I certainly appreciate it. I am also a fan of DeceasedCrab's work as well. He makes me chuckle. I've been watching his LP's long enough to have noticed a lot of inside jokes as well, including his hatred of whales and surprise fish. He definitely makes me want to try the Katie's Foot though. It sounds like a decent combination. Oh, I did finally finish everything in the PS3 version, I just didn't get the yet but I will. My main goal was just getting through the figure. It was hard on the ps3! Glad I made it though.
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I haven't ruled out rebooting under a new name so that people won't know what I have created before.
That's pretty ingenious, but I hope you don't have to resort to that. It would probably mean you couldn't continue building on the Knytt universe... and I've derived a lot of pleasure from noticing the links between all your different games.
Try not to let that article get you down. To me it seemed... bitter, maybe? All the comments are people disagreeing, and you're never going to please someone who thinks controlling a bouncing ball is intrinsically bad.
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Thank you :)
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It is very good to know how you feel Nifflas. After all, we live in a very consumer driven world and it is easy to assume that everyone is participating in that same mad rush towards the lowest common denominator. I'm very proud of what you've done in your game development and love all your work. Your doing something that I really do think resonates with people and I can't fully understand any criticism of KU unless it happens to be because someone simply has a fiendish addiction to Knytt Stories (as I do actually) and who is also just too fixated on getting more of that to truly appreciate KU. I will admit to a fiendish addiction to Knytt Stories myself but that is basically because I lack all the programing skills (and time) it would take me to develop my own games. You've actually inadvertently made it possible for me to fulfill one of my own dreams, so thank you! As for KU, I don't really think about comparing it to previous games now but just see it as a unique and beautiful thing in and of itself. So just keep doing your thing man. That is what I do when I work on a KS level anyway. :oops: :D
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I've suffered from similar issues, although on a much smaller scale. Just man up, Nifflas.
What makes your games special is how personal they are to you, or at least that's how it feels. You didn't specifically make them to sell, you made it for yourself first. That's why the final product is something so peculiar and uncommon in the industry, and that's why YOU made this community. I don't know if you frequent many other forums, but this place is special. This group of people your work brought together and the content it spawned, it's something very unique that you should recognize and be proud of, and I believe this is because of the peculiarity of your work.
You should always listen to criticism but some things are just to be ignored. Of course mane people who liked Knytt aren't fans of KU, these are games that are very connected to each other but differ a lot in style and gameplay. Your biggest problem is with advertising, and the people who already knew about Knytt were more likely to learn about KU, but may be disappointed by the differences. If KU had attracted more new players, maybe this wouldn't have been a problem.
There's also the issue with Knytt being popular at a time when the indie gaming scene was nowhere near what it is today. Now you're competing for attention in a much vaster sea of similar games. It's understandable that KU gets a bit buried under everything that's been coming out. I remember when I made it to the front page of Reddit with a KU post, and the amount of people that loved Knytt/KS but didn't even know about KU kind of bothered me, which is why I came to the conclusion that your games have a problem with advertising. Maybe when you find a way around that, you'll have more professional reviews that focus on the actually important aspects of your games, instead of comparing them to your previous successes :)
I really do respect you as a game developer, I wish you luck in the future and hope these things won't trouble as much in the future. You're one of the few people I feel deserves to be really successful, I really admire your work.
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I guess the best comparison you can do here is between the following 2 games.
Duke Nukem 3D and Duke Nukem Forever.
The 2nd is a sequel to the first with a far more superior engine. Yet people flame the 2nd game and claim the first was so much better. Basically those people suffer from a problem themselves due to marketing. They get very high hopes from what they learn about the game before it comes out, then they start to fantasize, and then when the game comes out, they do no longer see it for what it is, but they start to see what it didn't become. They feel let down and start to criticize for the wrong reasons.
Their comment say: the old was better, but what it actually means is: the old one did not let me down. Probably because it was new to them. Its something that always happens, especially if you bring out a game as a sequel. Perhaps this is where the problem lays with Knytt Underground. The fact that the word Knytt is in the name.
So I have to agree with what is said before by all others. Its definitely not your fault Nifflas. And you know as anyone, you never ever will be able to please everyone. Due to the marketing done for this game and also due to the various platforms it got released on, your audience is now so much bigger, that the amount of bad critics is also increased. But note that also the amount of good critics is increased as well.
I just don't get it that people want a new game to be almost the same as the old one, because when you do that, you completely ruin the game experience for the old game. It sort of happened with Knytt vs Knytt Stories. I love Knytt, but since Knytt Stories came out, Knytt seemed like a good game that was never going to change and since I played it a few times, I was just done playing. No need to look for challenges people posted, because Knytt Stories would provide me with enough stories.
If Knytt Underground would be a true sequel to Knytt Stories, with the same kind of graphics, but just a little different playstyle (you now have the ball) I would most likely leave Knytt Stories behind. But now I don't because Knytt Stories is a very good game that still holds ground.
I guess, sometimes people just need to release their frustration, and any way of expression is a way to do so, which will affect you and any other product.
Let me give you this advise: Make your games for yourself first, and then see how much gain there is for you. Positive feelings and maybe even profit. Do not focus on the negativity, especially if there are positive comments on the other side that are the complete oposite of the negative stuff.
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I'm usually a very lazy person, but when I read your statements in this thread, Nifflas, I just had to create an account to post my opinion here! I'm not a native speaker, so please excuse possible mistakes. ;) This is gonna be a long post I guess...
First off, I recently bought KU and I've played halfway through chapter 3. And although I don't like everything about the game, I really don't know how to express the joy that the game is for me. I've played some games throughout my life and I think that all Knytts (including KU!) are some of the best games I ever played. But I will adress the details later on.
The tl;dr-Version of this post is: I agree with all of the people answering OP in this thread. As I see it, KU received the most criticism for matters that are personal taste. People tend to express their thoughts as facts - that an artstyle/game mechanic/story element is 'inferior' or 'superior'. However, when you reach a certain level of refinement, it simply isn't possible to compare elements in a way that the one is 'better' than the other. KU - as well as the other games in the Knytt universe - seem to me as games that are very much thought through. Therefore I think that a simple "Knytts/KS's artstyle was better" doesn't do each game any justice. I guess the main reason for people voicing their opinions in that way is simple: They get emotional when talking about a feature they don't like and for that reason tend to say it's objectively 'bad'. They are disappointed that their tastes are not met.
I think you already know all of the stuff I'm trying to tell you, Nifflas, but I want to stress that again: Don't let these statements go to your head. They are, for the most part, not written with evil ('trolling') intentions, but... let's just say... phrased poorly. :) Think of it in that way: People get so emotional about your work that they have to contact you in order to express their feelings, and that's a good thing. I too find myself playing games or enjoying movies/music and thinking: "You know what? It would be reeeaally cool if that thing was different." I guess everyone can relate to that. And if the bottom line of the medium you're experiencing is, that the (subjectively!) negative elements don't outweigh the positive ones you get frustrated. That happens to every one of us. How often did I think about contacting a band or writing a review, suggesting them to "make the new album more like this album than that", because I just needed to get this out of my system. It's just that desire that with my 'help', I can contribute to a 'better' result. Yet I've never contacted any artist about his work, because I share the thought, that I would distort the artists way of doing his thing. I can't be the one to superimpose my tastes on the ones of the artist as if the artist was just a worker constructing a product for my personal appeal. The work belongs spiritually solely to the artist, and no other person is able to view it from his perspective. However, as I mentioned before, I as a consumer can understand when people do that, because it's just so damn tempting to write in some forum expressing my opinion in the hope of being considered for future developments. And that's the way you should read these statements: as emotionally influenced opinions that are for the most part not posted with evil intentions, but with a desire to be heard and considered. But in most cases they cannot understand why the artist made something in a particular way, because only the artist can.
In short, I'm just repeating the old truth - "just do your thing." Like me, there are a lot of people which find all of your work incredibly unique and awesome, and if you did something just for the sole purpose of meeting someones taste, it wouldn't be as honest and good. Even if you made a game I disliked, it would be great if it's the real you making it and not some mashed up opinions on the internet in order to reach the most common denominator.
That is NOT to say that one should ignore criticism. It's just the line between actual flaws and personal taste which gets obscured far too often. I also don't want to say that you should completely ignore other opinions. To be in constant self-doubt and to view the things from the perspective of someone whose opinion you do not share is the essence of creativity. But it gets harmful when you discuss with someone who cannot view the things from your perspective.
That all said, lets get to MY opinion of KU and its criticism. I know, I know, according to the things I said, I shouldn't write this, but there's a point to it other than simply voicing my opinion, I promise!! :)
- the ball: I must confess that I didn't play WADF just because of this mechanic. I tried playing it, but I don't have the best reactions and I'd say that I'm a bit clumsy considering my motor skills. But I think that, as an ability in KU only useful at some challenges, I've as of yet managed to handle it. The game has gripped me so far that I have tried some challenges countless times until I managed to succeed. That's a big thing for me as I get easily frustrated. Yet the game manages (much like Hotline Miami) for me to say to myself: "Ah, let's have just one more try, this time I CAN do it." :)
- the story: as I haven't played through the whole game as of now, so I cannot discuss that to the full degree, but I have witnessed one thing - man, your way of narrating the story (phrasing of the dialogues) is the best one I experienced in a loooong time. Let me explain that: the most games tend to go in either a very 'sober' way of telling things, keeping the language casual, occasionally throwing in swear-words when appropriate. They just want to make conversations like in real life that depict their setting. Telltale's The Walking Dead would be a good example for that. No magic, no hero-story, just the real world gone to hell. Then there's other games which have a symbolic language, which - when well executed - gets almost a poetic note. The last game I played where I expericenced that to some degree was Alice: Madness Returns. But I'm sure that there are countless other examples. These games have in most cases settings that are extremely solemn and other-worldly. Now, KU manages to merge both worlds in a way which I've never seen before. The 'poetic' games tend to be overly serious, whereas the 'sober' games like to keep it very colloquial. I literally laughed out loud at some lines which were spoken in KU because it just was so hilarious. The setting is so beautiful, yet I guess your idea was to kinda de-mystify the world by showing that there are actually normal people living in it with normal problems and normal language. And that clash of the themes for me is the coolest thing ever! It's poking fun at both ways of designing a game and that's so funny, but not in an obvious way. I understand that there can be other opinions to that, but the vulgar language - only used in certain moments - didn't break the immersion for me at all. To the contrary, It made the world you play in even more interesting. That way of fitting the dialogues to the setting really blew my mind, and I think that's also what I like the most about KU as of yet... The message I get from this is an extremely positive one: Don't take things too seriously.
- the art style: I must say that I also had to get used to KUs art style. I don't really know which style I personally like better, but I must say one thing about pixel art. Sure, it's hell of a lot work to draw even simple sprites, but in my opinion pixel art is a rather 'cheap' way of making something really charming. I guess that has something to do with what you give the viewer's brain to interpret. If you compare Monkey Island 1/2 to Monkey Island 3, I would say that I like the first two better. But like reading a book, MI1/2 leave room for the brain to interpret/visualize the things seen on the screen. In other words, I would maybe see the face of Guybrush quite differently than someone else, while we both start with the same pattern of pixels. That's a good thing, because what you 'complete' with your imagination will always be pretty for you. When you, on the other hand, take a distinctive art style, the viewer's brain can interpret nothing, it just sees what it sees. So the immediate consequence of that is that you have to 'get used' to it, even if you don't like it. But the advantage of such an artstyle is, that it's unique. Sure, you can achieve some level of uniqueness with pixel art, if not a very high level. But not choosing pixel art is always more 'on the spot'. I know, it's a matter of taste, but after playing some of the game, the art style really grew on me and I think KU is a very pretty game.
- there's some criticism I can understand. But - as I said - these aspects are based on my personal opinion. I think it wouldn't be that productive to name them here. They do not outweigh the overwhelming ammount of positive aspects for me...
To sum it all up, I'd say that I surely would have designed certain aspects of KU differently. I guess everyone except you would have to some degree. :) I can understand your frustration, considering that you simply have to look at blatant aspects like sales for your games in order to keep doing what you do. I think what matters is that you have to stay positive, even to the people using harsh words to value your games. It's just human communication, which is terribly ineffective and often misses the point it wants to convey.
Just do what you want to, and if that means brewing the meanest beer in town, go for it! And if you reboot under a new name, PM me. ;) I promise you to... uhm... instantly write you an E-Mail telling you that all your previous stuff was WAYYY BETTER!!! ;)
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It amazes me that people don't want you to evolve as a game designer, and that seemingly everything you do has to be compared to Knytt, even when they're trying to do different things. I can see why calling it Knytt Underground causes direct comparison, but throwing WaDF, Night Sky, or Saira under the bus of "not enough like Knytt" is just extremely biased in my opinion. I get why people enjoy Knytt, although I don't care for it too much, but by this point it's a simple freeware game that was made years ago and shouldn't be the only game that you made that ever matters. Knytt Underground is doing something different, and it lasts a heck of a lot longer than Knytt which forces it to be a more diverse game. Even if I don't ultimately care for it, I still appreciate what it does and the effort put into it, and I don't compare it to Knytt Stories and moan about why you don't make games more like that. I enjoyed Saira and Night Sky and FiNCK, and I hope you continue to evolve and make games as radically different to Knytt as you want them to be.
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what I don't username: I actually really enjoy some criticism, and I agree that it's important to listen to it. Constructive and respectful stuff definitely motivates me to improve. It's only the more bitter ones that completely dismisses whatever I want to create now and think I should go back to doing something I did years ago that gets me down. I do lots of plaything and listen to plenty of feedback and criticism, and that stuff can be great for sure. :)
My normal approach is to get opinions from people who I know. I do read some reviews too, but often stay clear away of the comments section.
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1. KU graphics is extraordinarily beautiful. The only downside is that all tiles are black.
2. I partially agree. I liked the story, but it's a finished piece of art, I don't think another Nifflas game can have story that goes like that. And it does have drawbacks, it makes the game much darker (black tiles also play their role here).
for all complainers read this:http://pixelsordeath.com/the-long/the-sad-story-of-knytt-underground
I wonder how this link could have any remote connection to anything written in the topic before it?
The guy got so frustrated he couldn't learn to play with the ball that he even wrote an article about it. Well... There's definitely a demand for Environmentals like Knytt. I guess only KS approach would suite both sides, with 2 worlds from the start: challenging (moderately challenging as always) and environmental.
Comments that tells me to stop exploring what I want, in place of creating whatever you think will be more successful and liked... It just pulls me away from game development and uninspires (is there such a word?) me to continue. It's simply not why I do this. One of the weirdest problems I'm facing is related to this; the kind of article you link to can get me down for a day, sometimes several days. I spent two and a half years on this game that I deeply care for and expresses something that's very personal to me, so the effect even reading a title named "the stad story of Knytt Underground", it's like a blow to my heart. The irony is of course that people who (not on purpose of course) hurt and may eventually make me stop developing games (even though I'll convert my game company into a beer brewery, so it's okay) consists almost entirely of people who liked my old ones. I haven't ruled out rebooting under a new name so that people won't know what I have created before.
It seems there are always things that get down creativity/productivity. I sum up mine with "I need a girl" phrase :) (a girl that would be THE girl)
At least I know many other creators has expressed the exact same problem - I've heard about creators of some games far more successful than mine who still get very affected by negative comments because they're so attached to their work.
Heard and watched I bet ;)
Here's also a good LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB9N4XTfE1w
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Long ago there was a topic about what someone wanted to see in Knytt Stories 2. It was the thing that made me seriously think about making a mod of KS. I started adding stuff like new graphics options, collectibles, a map system; things I thought would make KS more accessible and freshen level design. Then Nifflas announced Knytt Underground which would have all these things and more. I even scrapped some of my ideas because Nifflas revealed that they would be in his new game (like programmable enemies.) I was catering to the fans, including myself, and to me it looked like Nifflas was doing the same. For a level designer who strives to make the games he wants to make, I think the fans are quite fortunate that he wanted to make another chapter in the Knytt universe.
Of course, this topic exists. People will always want more than what they got. If Nifflas ever gives us another story about the Knytt universe, there will be a "My Knytt 5 ideas" topic. I think it's a good thing. If we can never be satisfied, then there will always be new games*.
*or beer.