Nifflas' Support Forum

Temporary => Knytt Stories Level Releases => Topic started by: Headgrinder on January 08, 2012, 22:40:52

Title: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on January 08, 2012, 22:40:52

You awaken to a message, a memory written in light, and find yourself in a lost paradise:  the white city.


End attempt at a cleaver introduction.

This is my first attempt at a largeish (or medium?) level.  I started this thing a year ago today for a competition.  :D  I've actually had it done for something like 4 months, but I kept waiting on a piece of music from one or more friends which was never delivered.  So, I figured a year is the cut off point.  So here it is, the first level I've posted in a long time.   :D

http://www.knyttlevels.com/levels/HeadGrinder%20-%20White%20City%201.1.knytt.bin

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Widget on January 08, 2012, 23:24:16

I've been running around for the past 15mins or so and really enjoyed it, though I'm pretty sure there's a lot I still need to find. I usually start to resent wandering through environmental levels 'cause I feel like I have nothing to do but between finding the powerups and the cryptic messages (to say nothing of exploring a truly beautiful map) I've already had a lot of fun with this.

I'd highly recommend this to everyone, even if you don't think you like environmental levels.

Edit: Finished the level now and I definitely stand by what I said. It's an eerily gorgeous place and the message is quite thought-provoking.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: egomassive on January 08, 2012, 23:35:00

Another long awaited level is released. 2012 is off to a good start. Downloading...

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: ortoslon on January 09, 2012, 05:25:09

wallswim at running to the left from x1001y996

after reading several paragraphs I started avoiding cutscene lights because seconds spent reading badly written stuff are seconds spent not running through a beautiful place

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Widget on January 09, 2012, 06:40:35

Quote from: ortoslon on January 09, 2012, 05:25:09

after reading several paragraphs I started avoiding cutscene lights because seconds spent reading badly written stuff are seconds spent not running through a beautiful place

I'd call that pretty harsh; while some of them would've benefited from another pass with a spellchecker I wouldn't call them badly written. I also think the level would've lost most of it's impact without the messages scattered around; as much so as if it had lacked its unifying visual theme.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on January 09, 2012, 14:07:46

Me and the english language, which is ironically my only language, have never gotten along well.  I prefer rules of spelling that make logical sense and I've always had a hard time memorizing irrational facts.  So I apologize for any misspellings.  Gimp doesn't have a spell checker and I though I had checked everything on Word.  Ah well. 

Thanks you both though for your input, and widget for your generous words.  I really appreciate it.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: ortoslon on January 09, 2012, 17:18:10

playthrough (http://youtu.be/NbxK0sn9z78)

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on January 10, 2012, 13:14:29

Wow,  the first play through of one of my levels.   X-P

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: RichardJ on January 10, 2012, 16:09:32

I enjoyed this level a lot. The music was lovely and fit the ethereal nature of the world very well (except for the abrupt cutoffs every now and then). I thought the design was very good too - it felt so non-linear, but then I realised a lot of thought must have gone into it to guide the player towards powerups.
The only thing I didn't like so much was

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

The length of time it took to fall through the loop. I eventually just started pressing ctrl-R when I fell off.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on January 10, 2012, 23:50:19

thanks!  Abrupt music cut offs?  The only ones should be in the fall, the rest should be non-stop music.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Yeah, the fall is long enough to cycle through the entire background, and I kind of figured anyone playing would pull the crtl-r out if the fell.  I sure do.  Basically, I loved the idea of this being like a bubble universe, a looped reality, and decided to make it so regardless of the difficulty it made in playability.  So, sorry!  Artistic license can be a bitch some times.  :P

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: mechamind on January 11, 2012, 01:00:03

What can I say other than very creative? Many ups, and only one important down.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Pros include: I liked how the paths crossover. Interesting that it used upside down water, and I really liked how the water transitions to transparent the deeper it gets. The cutscenes were also interesting.

My main con: Although the fall from the bottom back to the beginning may be long, at least it worked...mostly. It may need to be widened a little further to the left (and possibly the right too), because I did find an odd flaw. If you fall too far to the left, it will not warp you back to the top, so it leads to an infinite fall. It's especially a concern because the story does have an umbrella in it.

Overall, a very good story.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: yohji on January 11, 2012, 18:04:57

Gorgeous level here, certainly one of the very best ever. The top levels of the city would end up in my "best KS screens" list, no question about it :D Congratulations on such a beautiful job! Can't really add much to the comments posted above. I didn't really care about the few stray grammatical errors, probably wouldn't notice any if it weren't for the posts here.

Technical problems:

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

In x1000y992, a tree from the bottom screen should feature a top, but there's no top. Also, the trees were so very difficult to navigate! It was never clear what is solid and what isn't; that's true of some of the city areas, but at least I didn't die so many times there as I did in the tree area.

In x1003y999 the invisible block you're using to prevent a wallswim is very much available for exploration; the player ends up climbing the air.

There also seems to be some sort of problem with the purple key passage. I couldn't find it at all and had to cheat to do so; turned out it wasn't marked with the "invisible passage" ghost stripes which made it next to impossible to find. It was odd in the level editor, I think the stripes are there on one version of the screen, but not in the other... eh.

...I wonder if you have any other levels planned, hmm? ;)

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on January 12, 2012, 13:39:25

Geeze, I'm really surprised how many errors keep being found.  I guess I'm just not as methodical as I thought I was.  Maybe too it comes from having a 2 year old who only stops for breath when he's sleeping.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Yeah, the trees where something I kind of struggled with.  If you look closely, all the leafy sections you can walk on have a lighter green outline.  I was hard pressed aesthetically to do more than that, but if you had as much problem as you did, maybe I should have done more, like upping the contrast or something. 

Oh crap, yeah, I thought I had fixed the purple key passage thing.  I still don't know what happened.  It had been working fine.  Somehow both the wallx and the ghost stripes got deleted.  I fixed the wallX in my finally test, but I guess I didn't notice it had no ghost stripes.  The 100th time through everything looks the same. 

I guess I really should have had more beta testing, but I was just so dang ready to upload this thing.  At any rate, thank you so much for the comments!  If I never got a positive comment on a level, it would be real hard to keep making them.

I do have a half made level I'd like to finish, one at leas the size of White City, though probably strictly environmental without even a key and item maze (well, maybe, we'll see), but a lot more plot and cutsceen work.  I don't know when I'll start work on it again.

And I keep thinking I'll pick up the old TundraTrek Round Robin and get it as done as I can, just so it is done.  But again, I've had a lot of changes in my real life in the last year and I don't know when I'll get Knytting again. 

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: yohji on March 04, 2012, 23:24:14

Eh, I'm a bit late with this reply, am I not? Anyway, I know very well how real life can affect knytting - I've been working on two small levels for months now, and it's very frustrating. Anyway, I just wanted to say I'm looking forward to playing anything you'd want to release, even if it's unfinished. I hope you won't just disappear like Hmpf did (well, she didn't exactly, but, you know...)  ;)

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on March 04, 2012, 23:31:39

Hey, thanks for any reply period, no matter how late.  It's hard to want to release more work in any kind of timely manor unless there are replies, late or otherwise.

I'll have to think about whether to release my next large project unfinished or not.  Actually, I know I could never release it until I at least get the first half mostly done.  The second half can be left unfinished, and would still feel at least slightly finished.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Snowyowl on March 10, 2012, 09:50:41

This level was absolutely beautiful, but after circumnavigating the entire city three times I had to watch the playthrough to find one of the keys. Maybe I'm just very bad at finding secret passages.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: lamarblake on March 10, 2012, 22:35:05

I too am horrendously late in posting on this level. In short, I play this level over and over. One of my faves.
I do hope you  continue to post new levels completed or not.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on March 11, 2012, 11:05:17

Well, I did make one of the passages rather tricky.  I guess I just figured that the people that like the challenge would like it, and the rest would do like me: cheat when you can't find the answer by looking in the editor.   :oops:

Thanks for the feed back! 

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Medic-Ted on June 29, 2012, 18:31:19

Played through this.(have not been playing much levels lately)

Very thought out level.

I liked how the keys were visible, so I didn't have to guess where they were.Had to cheat for the last one though.

Definitely going to keep it my in my list of great levels.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on July 01, 2012, 00:17:50

Thanks!  Yeah, the last key is a douse.  I would have cheated too I think.  I had in mind that it would be fun to wander around finding all the hidden bits, but so far the harder hidden areas, at least for the keys, have been too annoying.  Ah well!  Live and learn!

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Saml on July 01, 2012, 04:19:22

Yeah, I got to 3 keys and then read this thread (after scratching my head for a while).  XD

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on July 01, 2012, 13:53:41

Ok, super spoiler...

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

The hardest key is, I think, the one requiring the eye which is way up the shafts at the bottom of the city, the 2nd from the left.  Does that help? 

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Hmpf on January 21, 2013, 18:06:09

Okay, I haven't finished this yet, but I started playing it last week and it's absolutely gorgeous, and I love the serene atmosphere.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on January 22, 2013, 03:17:14

Cool!  Thank you!  I kinda regret making some of the hidden objects so hard to find.  I thought I was making a nice challenge, but I think I just made it a little too annoying.  :/  I'm still quite proud of how it turned out over all though.  :D

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Hmpf on February 02, 2013, 21:29:15

Had a few minutes to play, a few days ago, and found the trees, and it was beauty gave me a sharp kick to the head.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Hmpf on February 03, 2013, 00:57:23

The above may seem like an inappropriately violent metaphor (simile? I'm tired), but sometimes beauty really is like a shock to the system.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on February 03, 2013, 03:17:49

No, I know what you mean.  That is kind of what I aim for.  XD

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 12, 2013, 11:33:53

This level has been on my backlog for ages and today I found time to play it to completion. It was very beautiful. I think my favourite screen was x1000y1001.

I found a bunch of small bugs and issues. Since you didn't update for bugs reported previously, you may want to just ignore this, so I put it in a handy spoiler.

Spoiler: Bugs (click to show/hide)

• x1005y1002 - It's possible to wallswim by jumping as far left as possible from x1005y1003 using the high jump, double jump and umbrella.
• x1008y996 - The protrusion at x17y3 should be entirely solid, but is only partially solid.
• There are various typos in the cutscene graphics, including "loose" instead of lose, "loath" instead of loathe, "truely",  and "anylonger".

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on March 15, 2013, 11:06:05

Hey, thank you sergi!  It's always good to know what people think.  It is also interesting that is your favorite screen!  Out of curiosity, would you mind telling me what it is you like about it? 

I may actually release an update of this now that someone has thoughtfully taken the time to tell me what the misspellings are; I appreciate that.   Also, I plan on making the tiles "use w/credit edit ok."  Don't know why I got even a bit hung up about that.  :shrug"

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 15, 2013, 13:44:57

Quote from: Headgrinder on March 15, 2013, 11:06:05

Out of curiosity, would you mind telling me what it is you like about it?

The colours are really nice, and the pattern (specifically the abundance of verticals and 45 degree angles) reminds of something I can't place... a painting, maybe?

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: bulbapuck on April 03, 2013, 17:38:37

And over a year after release I finally play this thing.

This is absolutely beautiful, it might just be the most esthetically pleasing level I've ever played. And even though I had a hard time finding the keys (made a full lap around the purple key, darn that was hard to find  :P) I never felt frustrated because I constantly noticed new things in the design.

Very nice level, a :hiddenstar: to you :)

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on April 04, 2013, 10:10:45

Quote from: bulbapuck on April 03, 2013, 17:38:37

And over a year after release I finally play this thing.

This is absolutely beautiful, it might just be the most esthetically pleasing level I've ever played. And even though I had a hard time finding the keys (made a full lap around the purple key, darn that was hard to find  :P) I never felt frustrated because I constantly noticed new things in the design.

Very nice level, a :hiddenstar: to you :)

Thank you!  Very high praise.  The labor I poured into this level is starting to pay dividends as comments like these continue to come in.  Means a lot to me; thanks again!

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: PONTO on April 05, 2013, 20:40:00

Hey... After years without playing KS, I decided to try this level.
I enjoyed the atmosphere and the idea for the narrative is original. It's indeed a pity that those texts could use a bit more work.

I must confess I cheated in order to find the purple key, though... :P

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on April 05, 2013, 23:53:44

And another new comment!  Wow.  I really do mean to update the errors, but my plate overflows with responsibilities and I'm wanting to spend what little extra time I have on new levels.  But I'll try.

How would you all feel about making the purple key easier to find, or including a text that hints at it?

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: PONTO on April 06, 2013, 02:30:15

Spoiler: About the purple key (click to show/hide)

The difficulty for me with that one was essentially due to the fact that I climbed the "inverted well" before getting the eye powerup, so I was sure all of them were dead ends. Indeed, to actually notice the new passageway one actually needs to follow the correct path, not simply get to the screen, because it is pretty much invisible and the detector only fires when we are very close... I am not sure how I would fix that, though. Changing the architecture would of course be too much, but perhaps extending the detector signal a bit farther away, so that one can see it even when going up the big path?

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: egomassive on April 06, 2013, 03:01:06

Spoiler: About purple key (click to show/hide)

I just played through myself. It strikes me odd that you need to have the eye power to access the key, but the hidden passage is not marked by ghost passage indicators. All the other ghost passages are marked.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: bulbapuck on April 06, 2013, 14:35:38

Spoiler: About purple key (click to show/hide)

@egomassive, I think there are ghost markers, I see them in the level editor but not when I play the level. I think the water falling up is disguising it so that you can't see it or something.

I think it would help the level a bit if you made it more obvious, but it wouldn't help it a lot. I really don't think it's worth the effort as the level is fantastic as it is.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: pfrangip on April 06, 2013, 16:54:41

Given the resurgence, I decided to play this for the first time as well. Great level! It's thought provoking, and not so pretentious as to offer absolute truth, as it seems to rather be telling an interesting story.

Spoiler: story (click to show/hide)

My interpretation is as follows: The White City was a digital realm, a supposedly perfect "matrix" so to speak. I believe this because the architecture seems to elicit thoughts of circuits and silicon, and its the easiest way to achieve true perfection and equality. Not only did the people soon grow to dislike it (people enjoy feeling superior, they enjoy getting back up after they fall) but something... else happened. Perhaps their physical bodies started dying off and people started vanishing from the city? Eventually everyone realized that a perfect illusion isn't perfect at all and woke up to the physical realm to live real life again.

Let me know how close I am!

Spoiler: Purple Key (click to show/hide)

Don't think there's any need to make the purple key more obvious, I found it right away with the light powerup, before I even had the eye to retrieve it.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Polana on April 06, 2013, 17:13:16

Because this topic is being discussed again now, I just want to say, that the part with those big trees is totally beautiful. And I like upside-down water and curved waterfalls, too.

Spoiler: Purple key (click to show/hide)

I must admit I have bigger problems with finding blue key than with purple key, because purple one is visible from another place.

Quote from: bulbapuck on April 06, 2013, 14:35:38

@egomassive, I think there are ghost markers, I see them in the level editor but not when I play the level. I think the water falling up is disguising it so that you can't see it or something.

It is because there are two almost identical screens (because of crossing corridors). In the game you can only enter the one without markers.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on April 07, 2013, 15:44:04

Wow, thank you all for the comments.  I think I feel much more inclined to update this because of it.

Polana, you get a star for this:

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Quote

It is because there are two almost identical screens (because of crossing corridors). In the game you can only enter the one without markers.

Thank you for figuring that out!  So, I think what I will do is...

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

It seems to make the most sense to expand the sensor area out into the main chute so that the player can at least sense it as they fly up the tunnel.  That way, if they at least have the sensor they can get clued in.  And I'll fix the ghost marks.  I think I built it this way because I was trying to use all the power ups.  That will give two clues.  I don't think I'll add more than that.

Pfrangip, thank you for the interpritation!  It is really good to hear what someone thinks is going on.  As to how close you were...

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

I don't actually have a set in stone answer to what is going on.  As you said, there is not absolute truth, not even in the specific instance of what is happening.  But you are very close.  I envision the White City (as well as Vague Feeling) as not so much being in a virtual reality, but in a reality that has been programed somehow.  I love the idea that they begin to die off and leave by waking up though.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Polana on April 07, 2013, 23:11:57

 :oops:

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on April 22, 2013, 03:04:19

So I've started in on correcting the spelling problems in the cutscenes, but I don't have any of the files I used to develop them.  I can't even seem to find the right font.  Anybody happen to know which font this is?  Notice the narrow "m" and the totally vertical "l" and "i."  I suppose it doesn't happen to be the same font, but I hate to change it.  Stinks... this is going to take a while.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Pumpkinbot on July 29, 2013, 08:56:12

Have a :hiddenstar: because, holy SHET, I loved this. x3 Level design was unlike anything I've seen before, and the thought provoking cutscenes were amazing. Really, really loved it, it's staying in my library for a while. :3

And what I think is going on is...

Spoiler: riversong.mp3 (click to show/hide)

...that it's...well, just some sort of "higher plane". Could be a digital wonderland, or an actual heaven of sorts. Point is, it's a thing and it's perfection. Everyone is more beautiful there, everyone is more healthy there, everyone is just perfect. But they start to think, what's the point of life if you have nothing to work towards? Sort of a "happiness is not a destination, but a path" sort of mentality, which I agree with wholeheartedly.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on July 30, 2013, 04:17:14

Well hey, thanks for the comments!  I'm always amazed I keep getting comments a year after I released this.  I'm very gratified to hear how much you like it.  I think your interpretation is ...

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

very close!  I'm unsure how perfect the people were, only that they thought they had made the perfect place.  The question is, how do you confirm that a place is perfect, and indeed, what is the point of life in an unchanging perfection.  So they moved on to continue life as an act of discovery and relationship.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: grimwit on November 01, 2013, 23:57:01

First time I've popped into this forum in years (YEARS) and this it the kind of level I miss.
Thanks for posting this, dude.  It's lonely, quiet, thoughtful, and clever.  I love it.
 :shifty:  Still haven't beat it, tho.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Headgrinder on November 02, 2013, 17:48:29

I appreciate these kinds of comments so much (well, any comments actually) so thank you.  Makes my effort worth it.  I've meant to make the hardest parts easier, the parts that EVERYONE has complained about, but still have not had time, so I hope you still enjoy it.  If your super stuck, I think there are hints on this thread.

Title: Re: White City [Environmental]
Post by: Klämrisk on November 04, 2013, 12:15:12

Well, I did gets stuck on occasion but...wandering around aimlessly looking where to go next for 15 minutes is still ok thanks to the excellent aestethics of the level design. Super cozy and stuffs. This I like. Kudos!