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Temporary => Knytt Stories Level Releases => Topic started by: egomassive on January 04, 2012, 10:00:16

Title: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: egomassive on January 04, 2012, 10:00:16
She awakens to the plea of a machine. It's dying. Take a key. Turn on a sub-machine. Repeat. Sounds simple enough.

Originally created for a level competition on these forums, this level resurrects the four keys for four challenges of increasing difficulty recipe. Only now, it's seasoned with seamlessly integrated custom objects and original graphics. Served with a side of original music by our own Ultigonio.

Download The Dying Core (http://egomassive.com/temp/egomassive-TheDyingCore1.1.knytt.bin) 7.8 MB


Spoiler: Legal (click to show/hide)

Edit: 8Jan2012: Version 1.1 released. Adjusted music volume, corrected spelling and some minor design changes.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: Talps on January 04, 2012, 12:15:22
Yay, great to finally play the full version!

Well you've already heard a lot of my opinion, but yeah, this is a great little level. Some of the changes you've made since we tested have made it a little frustrating in places (particularly in the last level) but overall it's very good; nice to finally see those cutscenes! (Still have only slightly more idea what was going on though).

Only found two of the toasts so I'll scour for the others later on.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: Ultigonio on January 04, 2012, 14:06:53
If there's one thing I particularly enjoyed about this level when you first released it, it was the level design.  Very well put together, I felt.  It was nice to see everything as a whole, finally--the custom objects and scenes and all of that.  As Talps, one only kinda' has somewhat more of an idea of what was going on than before--but I guess I kind of got spoiled already because I had to make the ending tracks.

You know... I kind of wish I could experience it all for the first time again.  I really did enjoy that level design, it was unique and interesting and not terribly convoluted, either.  I'm a fan of good platforming, and the difficulty curve is also well-done, which is nice. I'm sure the last sub-machine would have been way more irritating had I not been through the darn place several times already.

Also, I'm really glad I signed up to do the music for this project.  I tend to gather up experience as I go, so making these huge, 4-6-minute-long tracks was definitely a new experience; they still remain some of my longest pieces (and some of them my favorites) that I've made, and this is the first specific project I've ever composed for that has been fully realized!  Seeing the final product and playing through it helped me see what I did right and wrong--balancing is one of my issues.  In any case, your level was great inspiration for me.  My only regret...
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Anyway!  Enough rambling from me.  Excellent level, excellent work!  And thank you for the opportunity, Egomassive.  You know I'd gladly take up another one.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: egomassive on January 04, 2012, 18:00:11
About the story: I was inspired late in the development by student KS projects, the goal being to create a story driven KS level without dialogue. So, I ripped out most of what little dialogue existed and instead tried to use graphics for all the messages. The story is vague to the point of being pretentious now, but I hope it gives the player a bit of a puzzle to work out after the journey is over. Feel free to discuss the plot in this thread -with spoiler tags of course. Your thoughts may help me see what ideas need reinforcement and allow me to make better games in the future. Thanks.

@ Talps: I thought I made the last part easier since the final feedback from testers. Hmm... I actually surprised myself last night when I downloaded, installed, and tested the release version. I didn't die once in the last section. I guess I've played it too many times to give myself difficulty feedback.

@ Ultigonio: Is the last part still that hard for you? If you're not getting through before the song ends then the problem isn't the song length. It's the difficulty level. I guess I ought to look at it again and see if there are more improvements that can be made, however it's an innately difficult formula.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: Zydragazum on January 04, 2012, 19:24:40
This is an incredible level! This was done the way a platformer should be done. The level design is nice, and like Ultigonio said, the difficulty curve was very appropriate. Ultigonio did a very good job with the music, especially with the track for the purple level. The bonus goodies also made the game a lot more amusing and rewarding other than just treating the player to a plain ending cut-scene. Five stars.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: LordMarzog on January 05, 2012, 04:57:54
This is a fantastic level Egomassive! I loved it from beginning to end. It was really fun. I loved the look of the place. Each area used the same sort of tileset, yet with different color schemes thus preventing monotony.

The only gripe I have is the umbrella challenges in the purple area. But that's more of a personal preference than an actual problem. 

The music was wonderful by the way. It gave a kind of Atari/retro video game feel to it. All in all, great job!
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: sergiocornaga on January 05, 2012, 09:40:13
Very nice! I was surprised to see so much of the text go, I'd be interested to hear more about the student KS projects that inspired this change.

Great work on the soundtrack too, Ultigonio.

Spoiler: 'bug' (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: Widget on January 05, 2012, 13:54:40
A phenomenal level, as I knew it would be  ;)

I didn't play the early version when it was available and I'm really glad I didn't now as it was so fresh and exciting. Thankyou very much for creating this, it was an absolute joy; and a thankyou to Ultigiono for the music aswell, it's a perfect fit.

The only specific detail I just have to mention is that I was really impressed with the way you dealt with the retracting spikes. I've always quite liked the idea of them over static spikes but they tend to just be a roundabout way of slowing down the player, your solution offers the best of both worlds.

Edit: Oh! Seems like I missed some things on my way through.
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: egomassive on January 05, 2012, 17:47:45
Thanks to all for the complements. I'm really glad to see The Dying Core being received so well.

@ sergiocornaga: Doh. I forgot to spell check again. I was debating personification and toastification, but metaphor seems like the best word to me.

@ Widget: I usually don't like hidden spikes myself. They tend to make for trial-and-error game play. In my efforts to use only robotic type enemies I was pretty much forced into inventing a better way to use them. Since the demo was released I've seen the same usage in the Dark Sea 2 demo. I don't know if one inspired the other or not, but I'm hoping to see fairer use of spikes everywhere from now on.

Spoiler: More @ Widget: (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: Talps on January 05, 2012, 19:46:50
I've tried to be fair with the use of pop-out spikes where I can. In 'Petal's of a Dying Flower' I put them in places where they'd appear before the player encounters them so they were forewarned. In other levels I've put them on different-coloured blocks to normal land so they're recognisable. But you did them very artfully here, Ego. Making fair use of object like those that jump out at the player makes for fun and interesting designing.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: egomassive on January 05, 2012, 20:08:06
I didn't mean to say the hidden spikes have never been used well before. Different colored areas are also good indicators after they're learned. (Fore warning the player is also a good method, but it's a hard technique to master.) I feel that some indication, weather visual or audible, ought to accompany anything hidden especially if it can kill you. In this application, I've actually turned them into un-hidden spikes, so there are no surprises at all. You don't have to go to this extreme to be fair to the player. I guess what I'm getting at above is I hope future level designers will see what a difference the blatant visual clues make compared to none at all, and hopefully adapt that knowledge to their own style.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: Widget on January 05, 2012, 20:30:44
Re: egomassive:
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: GrayFace on January 07, 2012, 20:12:34
Yay :) The cutscenes are very cool.
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: egomassive on January 08, 2012, 00:36:52
I feel I should mention that a lot of changes were made after the last round of beta testing. The mistakes that have been found thus far weren't in the game, so all the fault lies with me. Thanks GrayFace, a beta tester, for your profound observation ^there^. That's some truly outstanding game breaking.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: Talps on January 08, 2012, 02:31:57
Thanks GrayFace, a beta tester, for your profound observation ^there^. That's some truly outstanding game breaking.

You're quietly contemplating killing him aren't you? :P2
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: yohji on January 08, 2012, 21:57:46
Excellent level, as usual! I was particularly impressed by the plot -
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

My only gripe is that I thought the music was mixed a bit too loud, and I had to turn it down, and then off after a while - since many of the challenges require a lot of attempts... Not sure if this type of chip sound - rough, unpolished - was entirely suitable here, but I guess I'm in the minority, since I can't see anyone else compaining  C)p
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: egomassive on January 09, 2012, 00:10:55
I'm going to release an update soon. Ortoslon wants to make a video of the final version. There are just a few minor adjustments to make that will mostly go unnoticed. I'm just sounding an early warning in case anyone is holding onto some sage advice.

@ Yohji: I intentionally left the music a little loud. The graphics are simple. The trials are linear. So, I felt the music could have more presence without getting in the way. This extends not only to the volume but the harshness. As to the use of 8 bit tracks, I felt they would accompany the blocky mechanical environs. I can imagine they could begin to weigh on you if you've died a bunch of times. Guess, I'll tone it down a bit.

@ Talps: I was a bit flabbergasted, but mostly that I never would have thought of that myself. If it hadn't been GreyFace it would have been someone else.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: Widget on January 09, 2012, 01:21:58
At the risk of sticking in another oar, I really liked the front-and-center role of the music in the level. It was the main factor in making the level feel novel and exciting as it's so much less common than soft ambiance in a KS level. I also thought the style was a perfect complement to the environment and, as LordMarzog said earlier, wonderfully nostalgic too. I've actually turned my speakers up on subsequent playthroughs to make the most of it.

I guess what I'm getting at is that reducing the volume of the music would actually lessen the experience for me. While the KS sound effects are very good they're not new and exciting anymore, while the music is.

Sorry to add another note to the feedback you're trying to process but I wanted to mention that there's a strongly held inverse view on the subject aswell.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: Talps on January 09, 2012, 02:20:02
Sorry, my odd sense of humour. (I did enjoy the increasingly angry-sounding easter-eggs throughout B-Man's 'The Great Race' as he complains at players for getting into the difficult-to-reach places that they're clearly not meant to go to).

I thought the music was good myself; the volume didn't bother me and I particularly liked the music in the ship. But saying that, one of the tracks in one of my own levels seemed a bit borderline loud to me, and I decided to turn it down and see the result, and was much happier with it quieter than I'd ever thought I would be.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: egomassive on January 09, 2012, 05:55:09
Version 1.1 is here! I was going to release update and full downloads, but since I adjusted music volumes they would be essentially the same size.

Yes, Widget, I wanted the music loud, but every time I entered the first and last trials I noticed how loud it was. I'd say to myself, "It's supposed to be loud! If they complain I'll hit them with some intellectual babble. Bwahaha!" but in the end I should have listened to my first impressions. If you ask nicely, I'm sure Ultigonio will release the sound track at full volume. That reminds me, did you know there are 5 hidden rooms in the game?

Sorry, my odd sense of humour. (I did enjoy the increasingly angry-sounding easter-eggs throughout B-Man's 'The Great Race' as he complains at players for getting into the difficult-to-reach places that they're clearly not meant to go to).

He's referring to comments made privately during some last minute beta testing. Mainly, he misses the core's dialogue that I ditched. Originally, it output some cryptic lines that were patronizing, and to ^some^ quite humorous. The last beta is still available (http://egomassive.com/temp/egomassive-TheDyingCore0.4.knytt.bin). 1.8 MB
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: Widget on January 09, 2012, 06:28:24
Re: egomassive: Hey, as long you're happy with your level I can mix'n'match my end to play it as I most enjoy it. Currently I'm seriously considering just keeping all three versions permanently installed anyway; I own and play multiple versions of the 8- and 16-bit Final Fantasy games and this level's definitely better than some of those.
Edit: Hope it doesn't sound too critical but axing the text did wonders for this level. It was fascinating to see the "before" version (and there was nothing inherently bad about the text itself) but it only really interferes with the clarity of design. Definitely settled on 1.1 with the 1.0 music.

I did not know there was a fifth hidden room, though. That's definitely a bit of a head-scratcher..
Spoiler: Found it! (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: ortoslon on January 09, 2012, 10:41:15
playthrough to the planet ending without dying (http://youtu.be/S-tWRmZubcg)
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: egomassive on January 09, 2012, 22:04:30
It's always interesting to see how a good player approaches the challenges I've made. Thanks for making the video Ortoslon.

@ Widget: I support people altering my levels to fit their own tastes. It's not like I have room to complain. I've corrected an SGE in my personal copy of A Walk at Night, and I'm hosting my fixed version of Super Juni Land --the original version has game breaking bugs and the author has disappeared.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: Widget on January 10, 2012, 10:25:34
Thankyou for your blessing. I feel a bit guilty now that I simply stated my intent rather than asking permission; I've always modified levels I keep (filling out categories/dificulties etc. deleting unmodified intro and ending folders and spellchecking world.ini files) and never considered that what I was doing might be stepping on the creators' toes  :oops:
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: RichardJ on January 10, 2012, 16:16:47
This was absolutely fantastic. The design, the visuals, the music, and the story were all great in their own way, and came together even better than Voltron. I've still not been back and tried to find all the secret areas, but I definitely will soon.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: mechamind on January 12, 2012, 00:46:03
Great level, and I do think Medium/Hard difficulty is accurate for this level. Some areas can get a little tricky at times, but I do consider them to be fair.
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Personally, there are only good things I can say about this Knytt Story.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: egomassive on January 12, 2012, 11:00:41
@ Mechamind: Medium is the size. :) Glad you enjoyed it.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: Polana on February 10, 2013, 21:26:06
I just want to say, that I've replayed this level today and it fascinates me, how everything fits. Tilesets, challenges - it is so all right...
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: pfrangip on February 12, 2013, 01:26:17
Played this for the first time just now. Great level!

The best thing about this level for me were the challenges, in that they were not unfair or random in the least. I hate difficult screens that are only difficult because you have to wait for some amount of randomness to finally go the way you want. (Especially those damn electro-sparkle-head things that send out the long-lasting slow sparkles that fill the area.)

(I might've actually said this was a bit easier than I expected, which is neither bad nor good.)

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: egomassive on February 12, 2013, 06:25:12
Thanks Polana. I had hoped people would find it worthy of replaying.

Pfrangip, you only missed 2 of the things you can find in the level, and I'm sure you already know what they are. Your take on the game's story isn't far from correct. Although I do have a story for it, I think it's better to let players fill in the gaps how they like. However, I like reading peoples interpretations. It gives me insight on how to tell a story with a game. I can see where I succeeded and where I failed.
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: Ultigonio on February 25, 2013, 07:54:04
I saw this thread relatively high on the list, so I thought I'd take a look at it.  I'm pretty surprised that some people felt so positively about the music (and yeah, I realize I'm over a year late on those comments, but still!).  I mean, I made these songs... nearly two years ago.  Honestly, I'm very tempted to revisit at least a few of them and remix them with instruments because I really liked some of the melodies, but really, some of the composition in these pieces was awkward and a little strange, mainly because I was trying something both new to me and, well, kind of bizarre in general.  Still, I'm pleased that people either didn't mind it too much or really liked it.  Really, though, if I was asked now for the same thing, I'd probably create something of a much higher caliber.  I will admit, though, in retrospect I'm somewhat impressed with myself for managing to get through creating 4-6-minute pieces....

Edit: Whoa, I just decided to watch ortolson's playthrough of the level, and I found myself in awe for nearly the entire video.  There's something strange and dumbfounding about seeing somebody else play something that you had a part in creating (though my job was not nearly as big as Ego's).  Good job, by the way (again, I know I'm over a year late)!
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: Sleem on March 12, 2013, 19:31:11
I'd like to announce that I have uploaded a Let's Play of this level, where I constantly screw up, curse a lot, and praise the level. It would be a shame if you didn't know this fact, so there you go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc6TpyCfLoU&list=PLFevUHZMxhUKZtrf3jwFHc193YIuIFZhR&index=1
Title: Re: The Dying Core [challenge/hard/medium]
Post by: bulbapuck on April 03, 2013, 22:50:37
Played this level today for the first time, and it was amazing. I espesially liked the third (red) section, even though I felt it was the most challenging (and as a member LoCP it usually is the other way around :p ). A very well designed level indeed :)

@Ultigonio: I really liked the music in this to be honest, it had a very special vibe to it that I personally felt gave the level another dimension. While I completely understand looking at your prior work and seeing how it could improve, I really don't think it's necessary to remake this :)