Nifflas' Support Forum
Released Games => Knytt Stories => Topic started by: JC Grim the 'crete reaper on February 27, 2009, 23:14:47
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Maybe I'm dense and blind, but I have been looking around the new forum, and from what I understand all levels must be posted in the archive. While I have no problem with this, I can see this posing a problem or two...
1. The KSLA is very messy, and isn't properly organized. It's difficult to find a level I'm looking for through all of the pages of levels... though this isn't so much my concern, and really not that much of a problem. I'm more concerned with #2.
2. Level size limit. The site allows levels with a max of 100MB, and while that will suit most users adequately, there are a few people, like me, who have such ambitious projects that the file size will exceed that of 100MBs. What are people like me to do? Abandon their project? I couldn't possibly bring myself to do that. I just couldn't... and where are we supposed to advertise our levels after they are done? The level previews section says it's meant for "presenting ideas/concepts/screenshots of KS Levels that you are working on." This doesn't sound like it is intended for finished levels, because you aren't working on finished levels anymore; they are finished. I could see this leading to users, mainly newer users, spamming their level links in different places on the forum.
Now I'm not one of those people who damn any sort of change before I give it a chance, and I'm open to anything you have to say because there may be certain things I'm not aware of when it comes to the new forum, but I feel there is something that was overlooked, and may need to be brought to attention...
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The Level Archive is going to be overhauled, so I'm sure some of these will be changed, or fixed. I agree with you for the most part, tho.
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The messiness is subject to change with the overhaul of the archive, which is aimed to be done sometime in march.
I can't say much about the file size limit, though. I can imagine that it will be relatively easy possible to release your story in parts while still making clear that those parts belong together, but I don't know for sure.
When it's done, the level archive will be the place to talk about levels when they are done.
We are aware that people are missing a proper place to submit your levels to at the moment. We just didn't see the need to keep the forum closed completely just because that part isn't done yet, though. So please keep in mind that things still are being worked on, and show some patience. :)
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Thanks you two.
I can't say much about the file size limit, though. I can imagine that it will be relatively easy possible to release your story in parts while still making clear that those parts belong together, but I don't know for sure.
Well, for levels that exceed the limit, would it be okay to continue using mediafire/sendspace/etc?
Better yet, why exactly is their a 100MB limit of the .bin size?
[mod]full quotes are rarely necessary. in this case, read again what you quoted, respectively what I didn't remove from the quote, since that should tell you as much as there currently can be said about that.[/mod]
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There is a 100 mb size limit, simply because the more space you allow people to use, the more they're going to waste on it. This way we can atleast control it a little bit. But then again, it might just've been set to this because you need to set a limit. 100mb really is alot for a level considered you can have a good level under 5 mb. If you need more space, just make the compression higher so you have the same songs with just less space.
Some people compress their OGG songs to 320kbit/sec while it will sound just as good using 128kbit/sec but the filesize is 3 times as less. Consider that you have 100mb of songs, that now is 33mb of songs.
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100mb really is alot for a level considered you can have a good level under 5 mb. If you need more space, just make the compression higher so you have the same songs with just less space.
Some people compress their OGG songs to 320kbit/sec while it will sound just as good using 128kbit/sec but the filesize is 3 times as less. Consider that you have 100mb of songs, that now is 33mb of songs.
I understand that. But I'm not making just any level. The .ogg sizes are the least of my worries. I have cut down the song files to be smaller, roughly around a minute or two, and will include the full song pack as an extra download from mediafire. The same with the ambiance pack. You can play the level straight out of the box decompression, and it will play as any other level, but if you want the true feeling of the game I had intended you to feel, you should download the BSoaKFF audio packs. I have the music part of the game covered. I'm worried about the 256 custom tilesets/256 custom gradients/ 256 custom songs/ 256 custom ambiances/ 255 custom objects and the sheer size of the level exceeding 100MBs. I'm not positive it will exceed 100MBs, but with the files I have collected, and still more to make.... I'm almost sure I will.
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100mb really is alot for a level considered you can have a good level under 5 mb. If you need more space, just make the compression higher so you have the same songs with just less space.
Some people compress their OGG songs to 320kbit/sec while it will sound just as good using 128kbit/sec but the filesize is 3 times as less. Consider that you have 100mb of songs, that now is 33mb of songs.
I understand that. But I'm not making just any level. The .ogg sizes are the least of my worries. I have cut down the song files to be smaller, roughly around a minute or two, and will include the full song pack as an extra download from mediafire. The same with the ambiance pack. You can play the level straight out of the box decompression, and it will play as any other level, but if you want the true feeling of the game I had intended you to feel, you should download the BSoaKFF audio packs. I have the music part of the game covered. I'm worried about the 256 custom tilesets/256 custom gradients/ 256 custom songs/ 256 custom ambiances/ 255 custom objects and the sheer size of the level exceeding 100MBs. I'm not positive it will exceed 100MBs, but with the files I have collected, and still more to make.... I'm almost sure I will.
...the default tilesets folder is only 7.29MB, and the gradients folder is 1.46MB. As long as you keep the music and ambiance in a separate package(s), then your level is unlikely to be much larger than maybe 20MB max, unless you have 255 custom objects, each 20,000x4,000 in size. (Or unless you have massive cutscenes.)
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There will be a large amount of cutscenes...
I could just be worrying too much.
Maybe it's just best for me to continue on with the level,
and deal with the problem when I get to that point, if it is still necessary.
:)
Thanks for you help everyone.
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Are you actually going to use all those songs and tilesets?
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Are you actually going to use all those songs and tilesets?
Indeed. ;) 8)
My goal was to make an extremely massive level with 100% completely custom everything using all available spaces.
I originally release the concept and ideas driving BSoaKFF back on.... *finds post date from old forum* ....on: Saturday, November 15 2008 @ 16:55, and have been working on it ever since. Shortly before the site went down I decided to rewrite the first post to suit what "Boot Stamping on a Knytt Face Forever" had become, but I never got around to finishing it. I still have some editing to do before I repost it, but I do need to hurry. There are several ideas scattered throughout the posts I had made on that topic as well.
Why do you ask if I plan to use them all?
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Why do you ask if I plan to use them all?
Ah, I see. I wasn't sure about your intentions. If you didn't used everything, I would've adviced to remove those that you aren't using. As far as filespace on KnyttLevels.com is concerned, its not my decision to change it, as its Jace's hosting. If Jace is willing to alter the filesize for your project or for everyone, then you're set. But perhaps its best to first see how massive your project really will be, and if it might be possible to add a compression to the images without anyone noticing it.
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Ah, I see. I wasn't sure about your intentions. If you didn't used everything, I would've adviced to remove those that you aren't using.
Ah, I understand.
Most my cutscenes range from around 7 to 12KBs so I'm not really worried about compressing the images.
I can have a large amount of cutscenes before I even reach a single megabyte.
If it becomes a problem I will probably talk to Jace and see what happens.
I'm sure if I impress him enough he will be willing to alter the filesize limit for moment or two...
Whoa, I just had an idea, why not have a "Featured Level of the Week" Where on the home page of the site there is a level picked that gets the best votes from the week before. It works off a weekly basis. From 12:00 a.m Sunday to 11:59 p.m Saturday it counts all the votes made during that week. Whichever level gets the most votes gets featured on 12:a.m of that Sunday. Then have a full chart for the levels from 1- 10 somewhere else on the site.
Anyone like?
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I don't like that idea that much, because I will be the one that has to program everything, and thats really hard to do... :nuts:
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A ranking system for each level does make a lot of sense though. Where logged-in users have the option to give a thumbs up or thumbs down on levels. Of course you'd have people abusing this system but if you're forced to give a reason for your thumb up or thumb down it'd cut down on that quite a bit.
On another note I can't wait for the new archive...I uploaded my levels in the wrong order and hope I'll be able to change that at some point. X)
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On another note I can't wait for the new archive...I uploaded my levels in the wrong order and hope I'll be able to change that at some point. X)
I can guarantee that. The engine will be new, so you'll have to submit your levels again. This will also allow me to make certain checks in it, so they get uploaded properly.
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this mystery massive custom-everything level is actually "boot stamping on a knytt face forever"? :shocked: i had forgotten about that level, but now i'm stoked for it all over again!
A ranking system for each level does make a lot of sense though. Where logged-in users have the option to give a thumbs up or thumbs down on levels. Of course you'd have people abusing this system but if you're forced to give a reason for your thumb up or thumb down it'd cut down on that quite a bit.
i've also been wondering about how the new level archive was going to work, i remember discussion on the old forum about implementing a rating system, but imagined it would be on a scale of 1-5 stars, not a simple thumbs up or thumbs down (i believe that would be a bit too vague). it would also be helpful, i think, to have an overall highest rated section, so people like me who used to use the "favourite levels" threads to find the best levels will have something similar to that. a "level of the week" would also be helpful, but if it's too much trouble to program it's not essential by any means.
hey carn, keep an eye on your PMs, because i'm about to send you one. :P
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A ranking system for each level does make a lot of sense though. Where logged-in users have the option to give a thumbs up or thumbs down on levels. Of course you'd have people abusing this system but if you're forced to give a reason for your thumb up or thumb down it'd cut down on that quite a bit.
thumbs up/ thumbs down wouldn't be very good IMO. A scale of 1-10 would be better. I'm sure people here won't abuse it much at all.
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this mystery massive custom-everything level is actually "boot stamping on a knytt face forever"? :shocked: i had forgotten about that level, but now i'm stoked for it all over again!
Why, yes it is. ;)
There will be no premature ending to BSoaKFF.
Only an amazing outcome.
The very definition of BSoakFF is "Custom to the fullest extend." :crazy:
Which reminds me, I will probably post the revised topic for BSoaKFF tonight after I watch "Mind Field"
yay!.
X)
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No I doubt any KS regulars abuse the rating system I'd just be worried about someone new to KS that makes a game, uploads it, and then having never even come to these forums just rates their own game really high and rates the other popular games very low trying to get people to play their level.
I do tend to over-worry but that's a possibility. XD
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Then simply log IPs and disallow a user from voting on a level that was posted from his IP.
Then again, you must take into account that most immature, younger people like that have a difficult time learning how to use the editor. Chances our, we won't have much to worry about.
Also, maybe only allow so many rates per a set amount of time? like, one every 3 minutes?
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Then again, you must take into account that most immature, younger people like that have a difficult time learning how to use the editor. Chances our, we won't have much to worry about.
...that's happened a few times before. :/ (That is, really young users posting sub-par levels they made without fully understanding the editor.)
Also, maybe only allow so many rates per a set amount of time? like, one every 3 minutes?
Just limiting each user to rating each level once would be fine. If you had a three-minute gap between ratings, it'd take 15 minutes to rate five levels- and, especially at the start of the new archive, there will be many many levels to rate.
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Don't worry about the ratings. It will be taken care of.
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Then again, you must take into account that most immature, younger people like that have a difficult time learning how to use the editor. Chances our, we won't have much to worry about.
...that's happened a few times before. :/ (That is, really young users posting sub-par levels they made without fully understanding the editor.)
...only "a few times". ;)
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But how are the creators of levels meant to receive feedback, and what will happen to all the levels hosted off-site that could only be found by the links in the old forum?
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Another thing they should add is the ability to comment on a game and put a preview screen up, 'cause I hate downloading a level when I don't know what it's going to be like. Oh, and something to add to the comments, there could be a "type of comment" thing, like "Bug" to noify he person of a bug, "Suggestion" to post an idea that would make the level better, "Genreal Comment" to just say good job or something, "Other" for something that doesn't fit any of the categories, or "Mod" for any important things. Also, you should be able to view all of your Bug comments on one level, or all of your Suggestion comments, etc. It would really make things easier. :)
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Another thing they should add is the ability to comment on a game and put a preview screen up, 'cause I hate downloading a level when I don't know what it's going to be like. Oh, and something to add to the comments, there could be a "type of comment" thing, like "Bug" to noify he person of a bug, "Suggestion" to post an idea that would make the level better, "Genreal Comment" to just say good job or something, "Other" for something that doesn't fit any of the categories, or "Mod" for any important things. Also, you should be able to view all of your Bug comments on one level, or all of your Suggestion comments, etc. It would really make things easier. :)
I say it should just have all the same options you would have for commenting as you would on the forum.
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Yet again, I'd like to point out the following:
Please keep suggestions to yourself, because I most likelly will have them on my to-do list anyway.
I don't want to say that you cannot suggest things, but people are suggesting things that I have on my list already. Remember that Nifflas kinda threw away Knytt Experiment because too many suggestions were made? I'm getting to that same feeling. Let me first make what I want to make, then I can add/change the system with suggestions that are usefull enough (if there are any, cus the system will most likelly already have it.)
As I'm getting a bit tired of this, I'm locking this topic. A new topic can be made (if necessary) after the new KnyttLevels is accessable.