Nifflas' Support Forum
Level Editing Support => Knytt Stories Level Editing Support => Knytt Stories - Custom Content => Topic started by: LordMarzog on December 07, 2011, 00:23:06
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For a new level I'm working on, I wanted a ruined town tileset that also had a "normal" version of it. Since there are none like that by default, I thought that the "Nowhere" Tileset by Richard Dunn would work nicely.
Thing is, after doing some poking around on here, I can't tell for sure what kind of permissions I need in order to use it. I have seen on other topics that minor changes are okay without the makers permission, but I didn't make just minor changes.
I suppose the easiest way to explain the changes I made is to just show you.
155 is the normal "Nowhere". 255 is the version I made of it.
I do recall that in the level Gaia, there was a tweaked "Nowhere" used. (Which partly inspired me to make my own)
So, before I get to the part in the level where I want to use it, I would like to know can I use it, after doing lots of editing to it, without permission? I haven't a clue how to contact Richard Dunn...
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This is the most relevant standing the community has on tileset modding.
Alright, after a brief Staff Discussion, I would say that the position on edits (or, uses as CO's, for that matter, I suppose) is as follows:
If you want to edit a tileset, ALWAYS try to contact the original author. When they cannot be reached, and you are in the honest belief that your edit is not "violating" the probably intended vision of the tileset (i. e. an overall rather minor change), make absolutely sure you give proper credit when using/editing their stuff.
This, of course, doesn't apply when the author explicitly, publicly stated that their tileset is not to be used/edited.
Before this was established I had done something with the "Nowhere" set that required permission. I found contact info on Arcturus but received no response. My solution was to remake the tileset entirely, so that it was an original (derivative) work and gave credit to the inspiring work. (See attachment.)
I would classify what you've made as a major modification. So, I don't think it would fall under the staff decision above. I can tell you from experience that Arcturus is hard to reach. I recommend making a tileset from scratch because it will be yours and you can do as you please with it.
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Egomassive: In your tileset, you say edit/use ok. Can't he make a destroyed version of yours and use that one?
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^: That's perfectly fine with me. I try to mark my tilesets with usage rights. The only times I need to be asked permission is if they say "do not use" or someone wants to use them for a purpose outside of a Knytt Stories level. If they say "KS use/edit ok" or similar; then modifications, usage in other sets, custom objects, etc. are all allowed.
In this case, I would ask that both Arcturus and I receive credit on any derivative works because my set is so closely based on his.
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I think I'll try to make my own from scratch first. But, I do appreciate the offer to use yours. I will surely give credit where credit is due. Thanks.
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Dude you should go with your first edit. You have not removed the guys credit in the tileset and he can't be reached so screw him. You shouldn't have to chase him down in the first place either, he's not on the forums and he hasn't said anywhere it's not okay to edit his tilesets.
It's also a public tileset, which means it's for public use and being allowed to edit it should be just as fine as using it to create levels with it.
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Salmoneous, I can't help but feel that if it were your tileset in question you probably would disagree completely with what you just said... I can't think of a nicer way to put this, but what you've posted simply doesn't sound very nice, and it's posts like that that make me afraid to post my tilesets anywhere. I don't mean to be making a lot out of it, but the post struck me as very inconsiderate..
On another note, I'm personally very happy that firstly LordMarzog is going to try to make his own, since it's always great practice and very fulfilling if you can manage it, and secondly, if it happens he can't make one, I'm also happy that egomassive has made his own that we don't need to dispute over, since he seems kind enough to share it with us if we credit him and Richard Dunn.. Frankly I find this a really good thread overall, even though the tileset it was about is up for dispute, since alternatives have appeared..
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Ironically enough, the focus of my current project shifted so I don't need a ruined town tileset right now. X-P But, I did still make my own tileset for this project. I should be done by Dec 30th.
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Salmoneous, I can't help but feel that if it were your tileset in question you probably would disagree completely with what you just said...
Nope, I wouldn't, in fact I would be happy if people used my tilesets in any way they wanted to. I even stated it in my tileset thread.
And what's in question is a public tileset that were released years ago and the author can't be reached. What's the deal here is that LordMarzog's effort shouldn't be wasted because of he can't do it without the authors permission when the author can't be reached. If this Richard Dunn guy would say that it's not okay for edit then it's not okay but for all we know he might be dead.
It's just a ridiculously small deal. You shouldn't have to go around this Marzog but if you already made another tileset I guess you already did.
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How about only using small parts of the ruined version I made? Turns out I don't need the entire tile set, just pieces of it.
Think that would be okay? Also, I'll only be using that tileset for like 4 screens.
If I ever need another ruined tileset I'll make my own for sure.
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That sounds fine to me, Marzog.
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If the author can't be reached, it must be perfectly fine to edit the tileset. LPChip has stated that even with commercial music it can be ok, so for public tilesets it's a no-brainer. Here's his post: http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=5013.msg54375#msg54375
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Well, I went ahead and just used the whole darn thing and included the attached screen in the credits.
The level I used the tileset in can be found here. (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=5131.0)
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I've just played through the level (which I loved btw) and I really like the way you've gone about it. In fact, the entire credits sequence at the end was quite interesting, in my opinion; as were the secrets in your levels giving commentary on your design choices and techniques.
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Well, I went ahead and just used the whole darn thing and included the attached screen in the credits.
I disagree with the last sentence. You're violating the spirit of copyleft. You could write something like 'If you want to use/edit custom "Nowhere" tileset, only Richard Dunn can grant you permission for that, I'm fine with it on my side'.
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Well, I went ahead and just used the whole darn thing and included the attached screen in the credits.
I disagree with the last sentence. You're violating the spirit of copyleft. You could write something like 'If you want to use/edit custom "Nowhere" tileset, only Richard Dunn can grant you permission for that, I'm fine with it on my side'.
Copyleft? O_o I apologize, but I have never heard that term before. :oops:
Could you perhaps elaborate on that please?
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Well, I went ahead and just used the whole darn thing and included the attached screen in the credits.
I disagree with the last sentence. You're violating the spirit of copyleft. You could write something like 'If you want to use/edit custom "Nowhere" tileset, only Richard Dunn can grant you permission for that, I'm fine with it on my side'.
Copyleft? O_o I apologize, but I have never heard that term before. :oops:
Could you perhaps elaborate on that please?
How about: Copyright, but right changed to left? :P
Its a wordplay. Some people use Copywrong too.
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Copyleft? O_o I apologize, but I have never heard that term before. :oops:
Could you perhaps elaborate on that please?
Copyleft open-source licenses read something like "everyone can use and modify as they wish, but their modified versions must stay copyleft, usable and modifiable by anyone". I think this approach is the best fit for default policy for content whose authors are unreachable.
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Ooohhhhh. Gotcha. But, the reason I asked that no one else use the modified "nowhere" us because of the off chance that Dunn would ask me to take it off. If, for examole, 5 people use that tileset and I get told that Dunn doesn't want his tileset used like that, then 5 more people would have to do the same.
You have a valid point though.