Level Editing Support => Knytt Stories Level Previews => Topic started by: Exalok on September 30, 2011, 18:26:56
Title: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: Exalok on September 30, 2011, 18:26:56
So, er, first level for this Knytter? :0
Basically, it's a search-and-explore kind of level - I think? Someone has lost a key and needs to find it again to open up the house she recently inherited from her grandfather. I'm not sure about the difficulty - I'd say easy, maybe upped to normal - but mostly, I believe I need advice on how to make interesting, aesthetic screens (I probably tend towards almost bare or incredibly cluttered >_>) and possibly on what tilesets I should use. I mean, I've chosen some - mostly Imaddo's (the ones he or she released on DeviantArt - should I be asking permission, or am I allowed to use them as long as I mention Imaddo in the credits?) along with a few from the default library - but I'm not sure I'm getting the transitions right.
I suppose I should be showing a couple of screenshots, so you can see what I'm blathering on about? 8D (not sure if they're any good, but...)
And final question: should I be making my own sewer tileset, or other kinds of tilesets? Because with what I have, it looks like I can't really get the effects I want (such as the water falling out of the sewer hole + grate looking wonky).
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: egomassive on October 01, 2011, 00:54:45
The first thing I noticed was the backgrounds don't match the foregrounds. The sewers are made of man-made brick, but not the rear wall. That's made of natural cratered rock. I'd suggest using a darker, maybe smaller, brick pattern for the back. The transition in your second screen could use some work. If you were using a brick background for the sewer, then you could put an irregular line between the areas suggesting decay. The transition in the third screen looks fine. I've noticed in Nifflas' levels that he will start the new area's foreground tiles at the edge of a screen. The background will then change with the screen change.
Aesthetically and otherwise, the best advice I can give you is to find a game you like the look of and imitate it. Whenever you wonder is this "almost bare or incredibly cluttered", or question the difficulty, or wonder how to approach a design challenge look at a game you admire and study how it approached the problem. Eventually you'll develop you own style, but until you do it's helpful to compare your level to the works that inspired you to make a level.
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: Pumpkinbot on October 01, 2011, 04:02:02
Don't take Egomassive's post to be anything discouraging. :P Frankly, it looks pretty good, especially for a first level. Ego's just helping you out. :)
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: Exalok on October 01, 2011, 08:00:02
@egomassive: You're probably right - I'd chosen the background because I liked how the gray tiles and the blue worked together, but I should make the background match. Thanks for the tips on transition, too! I'd actually never noticed that about Nifflas' levels x3 And thank you again for all your help - I'll certainly be trying out what you're telling me 8D
@Pumpkinbot: No worries, I think I can handle it (and I need all the help I can get) xD And thank you! :3 Though I hope I can get even better in future :0
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: egomassive on October 01, 2011, 15:41:24
Oops. I didn't mean to sound overly critical. I was just trying to address all of Exalok's questions. The color combinations are good, it's just the materials that don't mix.
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: Exalok on October 02, 2011, 18:31:21
No no, don't worry! Since it was all helpful, I didn't see it as overly critical at all. And yeah, I see what you mean - the blue background's texture seems strange for the sewer I was trying to build. I'm glad I wasn't wrong on the colors, though x3
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: Exalok on January 13, 2012, 09:33:47
Okay - sorry for taking so long to post developments xP I'm now finished with the first part and advancing through the second, and I've redone the sewer tileset (as well as another one, a forest). Posting screenshots or feedback on tileset quality, mostly... (note on the grassland/sewer break: that's something I'm still working on, but the idea is there)
Oh, and I've just got a question: I saw somewhere that environmental only means there isn't any challenge at all, just attention given to aestheticism... but there are some semi-hard jumps in the level I'm making. Should I label it Environmental/Challenge?
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: LPChip on January 13, 2012, 10:10:23
Oh wow, that sewer looks very good.
The only feedback I can give you to make it even better is to change the tile of the small bricks to be less noticable. And by that I mean, make the darker grey color lighter so its more close to the lighter color. Due to this, you will still see it are stones, but you will also get the feeling its further away and by such distinction, its easier as a player to see where they can go, rather than to look closely. Especially on the first screenshot (4) at the bottom where you have to jump the gaps, it will be a bit harder to see now where you can and cannot walk.
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: Exalok on January 13, 2012, 10:26:43
Okay, I see what you mean! Thanks a lot for the tip :3 I'll be sure to add that to what I've got to do!
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: egomassive on January 13, 2012, 22:56:41
I like those trees! You could make inside corners so the border pattern doesn't break.
Don't label your level environmental/challenge! A few difficult jumps are fine in an environmental, especially if missing them doesn't cause death. Some watery deaths are acceptable if they are easy to avoid. Hidden or bonus areas can be really hard to get to, but still don't use enemies. Alternatively, if these semi-hard jumps are numerous and necessary you should label it an easy challenge. There is an unofficial category, scenic, which is used on the forum to indicate that a level is highly aesthetic. So, you could make it a scenic/challenge. Please note that being an unofficial category, scenic cannot be filtered for within the game or on the forthcoming new archive.
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: Exalok on January 14, 2012, 10:36:06
True! Good idea, I didn't think about that xP
Hmm... so as long as the difficult jumps don't result in death and death-by-water can be avoided easily enough, and as long as I don't use enemies, it's environmental? I'll be going over everything to make sure it's all okay then x3 Thanks! Just a question on that, though: does it become challenge if I use any enemies at all? I've got spiders in one part of the level... Oh, okay! Well, in any case, thanks a lot for clearing those things up for me :3 I'll be taking it all into account when I settle everything!
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: LPChip on January 14, 2012, 12:58:41
If those spiders become an obstacle you need to pass, then its a challenge. if you can get around them by taking an alternative route, either on the same screen or by going through other screens then not.
Note that environmental levels will be the first choise of people who are new to knytt stories or gaming in general. So if they have to somehow dodge those spiders, they'll fail. Its that, what classifies something as challenge. You can see it like this, if you can label the level easy, its most likely not challenge, but do note: something that is easy for you can be hard for someone else.
Ever played a FPS by ID that has a difficulty setting: Can I play this daddy? with an icon of a baby next to it, thats the kind of difficulty you need to think of with easy.
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: Exalok on January 15, 2012, 17:49:04
Okay got it x333 I think I'll be changing some things then! I'll see whether the jumps are difficult and fiddle around with those spiders, and I'll see whether I should re-evaluate the difficulty then. (and of course work on those changes to the tilesets :0 ) but omigawsh thank you so much for being so patient with me and my huge load of questions.
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: Exalok on June 13, 2014, 16:01:12
Okay! Sorry about the huge time gap between the last update and now.
Thing is, the computer I was working on then crashed and I lost all of my progress; not only the tilesets and mapwork for Somewhere but also everything I'd done for another project (which amounted to a certain number of tilesets I'd spent hours detailing and reworking, as well as all the screenmaking I'd been doing). All in all I kinda (read: intensely) lost interest in working on my Knytt projects.
Recently, however, I pretty much spontaneously decided to start up again. Also it's summer, so. I've got some free time to get rid of.
To resume: was gone, am back, currently reworking Somewhere with new tilesets as well as the ones I managed to salvage from the screenshots I left here. Hoping to make a world consisting entirely of tilesets I've created. Some are strongly inspired by others' work (such as Imaddo's house things tileset, which I was using previously), some are experiments to see how well I can render different types of terrain and kinds of environment.
Whoo! Screenshots may come shortly.
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: Healy on June 14, 2014, 03:34:09
Oo, excellent! I hope things are more successful for you this go around!
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: egomassive on June 16, 2014, 23:14:04
Glad to hear you're working on this again. Back-up your files regularly this time!
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: Exalok on June 17, 2014, 17:00:23
I'm putting up my tilesets as often as possible on the thread I made over in custom content, but you have just reminded me I really should keep a copy of my level on a USB key xD
I'll certainly make sure not to repeat last time's mistakes, anyway :0
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: Exalok on June 19, 2014, 01:19:25
Alright! So I've been getting a lot done in terms of tilesets, though I still have a ways to go before any of them are complete, and today I got the beginning of the level started (around ten screens structured and decorated).
Have some screenshots. Note that since I'm creating this level mostly for its aesthetic, they sort of consist in "spoilers", since you'll be seeing parts of the landscape without context/discovering it yourself. Nothing plotty is spoilered here, however, and since this is still very early-game players would have seen all of this quickly enough.
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: lilmanjs16 on July 02, 2014, 00:10:15
This looks really good! Can't wait for release.
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: ixMarcel on September 22, 2014, 14:52:16
Well, I have to say these screens look promising.
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: Chrysophylax on September 23, 2014, 22:33:41
This looks good! I hope there's a save point near the third screenshot.
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: Exalok on October 31, 2014, 20:05:17
whoops, looks like i haven't updated here in a while.
in answer to your question: every door you pass through is also counted as a save point, so yes there is one pretty close to that area :3
i've been working a lot on the sewer tileset, and unfortunately decided to actually make every single element used in the game (which means i now have to animate... oh no), so that's been taking up some time. i freely admit i slacked off and didn't work on it for a whole month at least, though :P
you'll probably be seeing a tileset update and, if i can make them work, a couple of examples of characters/animals i'll be using. and more screenshots, hopefully???
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: egomassive on November 02, 2014, 05:37:38
Sounds good. I like to mix up what I'm working on. If you get tired of making graphics make a few screens. If you get tired of making screens make a CO. If you get tired of making CO's make cutscenes. If you get tired of making cutscenes spend 2 years creating a mod of KS. :P
Title: Re: [Environmental] "Somewhere", episode one
Post by: Exalok on February 27, 2015, 15:35:15
heheh :D
okay so current progression status: 41 screens, 2 areas finished and another nearly so because spoilers x3 main character done, one side character/quest begun and getting planned... now i have a couple of tilesets i know i'll need to do and am currently going back over the plot of the game to make sure it all works.
I AM INSANE. this isn't gonna get done anytime soon. i should probably get a small side project so i have something less incredibly ambitious to show.