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Released Games => Knytt Underground => Pre-release topics => Topic started by: Nifflas on July 12, 2011, 17:44:23

Title: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 12, 2011, 17:44:23
In the new Knytt game, you sometime have to pay to get access to new areas. Now, I'm thinking that there will be two or three different types of currencies in the game. The currencies are however of completely different types, and each NPC will only accept one type. They do not necessarly need to be actual money at all, just some item you can carry a lot of that have some kind of value.

The first type is not very valuable and found at various places in the game world (they're not very hard to reach). You can't use it to buy yourself into any key areas related to completing the game, but you can ues it to get access to areas where you can obtain the two other currencies or just open some shortcuts. The second type is given by NPC's when you complete a quest, and the third type is found at hard to reach places in the game world.

What do you think the currencies should be called, and what should they be? I only imagine one of them being actual money.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: jetio4 on July 12, 2011, 18:55:53
Copper, silver, gold seems like basic money that could be used.

Certain types of tree leaves, sheets of music (to trade to a composer for other things) and trading cards of some sort also comes in mind.

I'll post more if I think of them.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Raicuparta on July 12, 2011, 19:06:24
I thought about gold, silver and copper too, but that sounded a bit too common, and those three don't differ enough, so that characters would accept copper but not gold, for instance. But one of these could be used as the higher level currency, perhaps.

I'm thinking acorn or other types of nuts for the lower level currency, feels like it would be something easy to carry around as if it were money, and you just had to search for the right trees.

Some kind of semi-rare gems, maybe you even would need a specific tool (like a pickaxe) in order to obtain them.

I would rather not have actual money in it, though, for me it feels like it wouldn't fit the Knytt universe.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 12, 2011, 19:19:39
Basically, they can not be exchangeable. Copper, silver, and gold sounds like three different values of the same currency.

I agree it shouldn't be human money because that doen't fit in the knytt universe. I'm not against the concept of "money" as in an item that doesn't have an actual value in itself but is given a value so that it can be used for trade. Sort of like bottle caps in Fallout. For the second currency, which NPC's will give you, even something constructed or processed can work.

However, I can not design specific areas for these items to appear in, because the world is almost done and I don't want to change it like crazy. I can not do a specific type of tree, or something that require a pickaxe. They have to work in a lot of different environments in the world the way it look now.

Gems is a good idea, since I can see why they would be at various locations in the caves that the game takes place in. Perhaps they can be the third currency.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Zelakon on July 12, 2011, 19:41:21
I love the idea of currencies, and agree that gems should represent the most valuable of the three.  Maybe you could use pebbles as the most common?  It really depends on the environments you've chosen.

One thing I do suggest however is if you're going to have three different types, it would make sense NOT to have sub-divisions within those (for example, rubies/emeralds/sapphires) as I think it may make the idea of trading in different currencies with different NPCs unnecessarily complicated.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 12, 2011, 20:00:30
Exactly, no sub-divisions. The currencies are not exchangeable and different NPC's are only interested in a certain currency. By that reason, it's not possible with sub-divisions at all.

The environments can vary, but it always takes place in underground caves, which is why gems will always work. Stuff grows everywhere in the world too, so plants or flowers will always work. I'm either looking for something that will work in caves or not be that connected to any type of environment. When it comes to the second currency that's never found in the landscape but only given by NPC's, that can be absolutely anything.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: back seat astronaut on July 13, 2011, 00:06:50
I like the idea of it being some kind of plant, but if that doesn't work because the plant wouldn't grow in all the different environments, what about some kind of mushroom instead?  Maybe it would seem less weird for the same little type of mushroom to pop up everywhere than for a certain kind of plant.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Zelakon on July 13, 2011, 01:01:34
+1 for mushrooms (as the common currency), that would work brilliantly.  If you don't want mushrooms Nifflas, how about stones instead?  Also, how about beads as the other type?

Regarding the names, they would either have to pertain to the name of the universe in which the game is set OR be entirely made-up words.  Such as Shen, Malgrai or Flectars!  Of course you could just call them stones, beads and gems for example.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 13, 2011, 01:05:36
Haha, I would probably be accused for of drug liberal if you trade with mushrooms in the new Knytt game X)

Perhaps flowers!
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Miss Paula on July 13, 2011, 02:09:11
first thing I thought of at reading the first lines of the thread was "paper clips", but that's just because I should really sleep.. it's just something silly that reminds me of something the characters from (for example) WaDF would do. X)
or some origami figures. :P
and I do like mushrooms, and not at all for the drug aspect. but acorns is nice too, they could just have gotten underground via a squirrel. although if you have acorn photos as background objects, that'd be weird...but on the other hand you also have mushrooms and flowers... XD
sleep->
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 13, 2011, 02:16:15
Haha, true! I guess if I give the flowers a name it'll make sense. Then it's a special kind of flower that's really small :)

I guess completely made up objects can work too. Just weird names and an image of something nobody really can figure out what it is.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: back seat astronaut on July 13, 2011, 03:16:16
There are tons of edible mushrooms in the world that are just food, not drugs.  :P  Besides, it's not as if your previous games haven't had mushroom imagery already (this one too, judging from the screenshots.)

I also like the idea of beads mentioned above.  I just think the currencies should be something not seen in tons of other games (such as gems, gold, etc.)
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: back seat astronaut on July 13, 2011, 03:20:55
Also, Nintendo has had characters eating mushrooms (which happen to look just like amanitas, a known psychoactive) for years, and I don't think they've suffered much from it.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 13, 2011, 03:32:29
That's true, it's just that it becomes very different when used in dialogue, in particular when related to trading and money.

Perhaps you're right though.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: LPChip on July 13, 2011, 09:34:00
How about shelves or necklaces or a necklace made out of shelves? Given that it takes fabrication to be made (given its a necklace) it can be the mid one. In fact, it can be a necklace with anything on it, like stones, pebbles, shelves, or even a simple piece of paper/metal/plastic/etc with some weird sign on it.

EDIT: I ment shells, not shelves. x) tnx Ponto
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: PONTO on July 13, 2011, 10:57:04
First idea that came to my mind were also mushrooms, too. I also like the idea of shells. What about pearls?
It seems to me, however, that we are only thinking of elements of the natural world. What about some strange technological artifacts which are the remnants of some ancient civilization?
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 13, 2011, 12:02:25
Ah, well, they can just as well be remnants of human technology, that'd go with the game story!
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: PONTO on July 13, 2011, 12:07:00
Maybe have mice, cellphones, car parts, TVs, gaming consoles... Saira's PDA!

Making unique items for at least one of those kinds of currency would be good, I think. In that context, you may want to read this blog post on the subject:
http://gamedesignreviews.com/reviews/beyond-good-evil-collectibles-review/
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 13, 2011, 12:31:17
That's very interesting. I'd actually love to do that, I can see why it's a good idea. It'd add extra development time, and I would need to figure out a way to set up the menu to display it.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: sergiocornaga on July 13, 2011, 15:14:06
I love the idea of remnants of human technology as the hidden currency. You could play with the idea that Knytts are smaller than humans and have things like huge broken fragments of CDs or diamond ring hula hoops. As for other ideas, the money-like currency could be beads, and the NPC-given currency could be scones.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 13, 2011, 15:35:17
Yeah! \o/

Some great inspiration comes from this topic.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: PONTO on July 13, 2011, 15:44:56
One of them could be one of the items from the alchemist in The Great Work. ;)
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 13, 2011, 16:40:10
Absolutely!
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: PeppyHare4000 on July 13, 2011, 18:27:35
I would say that gold could be used for those common places. If you don't like the idea, how about diamonds.
Also, you say you have to get to certain areas with the common currency... Try to make certain areas more expensive than others
As for the other two currencies: Purple Crystals for the Middle Currency and Blue Moonstones for the Best Currency

Make the Crystals and Moonstones hard to find.
ex: Only put the moonstones in the extra areas of where you have to pay gold/diamonds and you need certain powerups you can't get if you enter the area for the first time. I like secrets....
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Grookie on July 13, 2011, 19:28:48
As someone said, it would be good to add more money-types to one currency.
So what about when one currency will be fruit, then for example, 1 Fruit = apple, 2 Fruit = pear, 10 Fruit = cherry etc.
Or just totally random items having the same value.

And an extraordinary currency: Lightbulbs! (normal, neon, economy etc.), they could be in the streetlights, so the Knytt/Ball
could take (steal XD) them.

Or some Liquids! The Knytt/Ball must find some bowl/cup to take the liquid from its place (lake etc.), then Knytt could leave it behind or keep it, so she won't have to seek it anymore. It could be collected from waterfall, rain or drops too.

Or repeat some Knytt items as currencies! (dunno if mentioned yet)

Or it could be powder from plants/mushrooms, Knytt will need some sack to take it, then she comes to that plant/flower/mushroom and she shakes it and the sack fills.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 13, 2011, 19:58:09
Grookie: I'm not planning to add new game mechanics but I do appreciate the suggestions anyway.

Every type of currency have the same value, and they're not exchangeable. I think diamonds work better than gold with PONTO's suggestion that each item is unique. I can not come up with a lot of different natural shapes for gold, but diamonds can have all kind of different colours and names. Human artifacts can also be of various types, like a CD or a microchip. Finally I guess different kind of either fruit, mushrooms, or flowers could work.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: back seat astronaut on July 13, 2011, 23:01:06
I'm also curious if we'll be able to customize these currencies in our own levels, by changing the graphic used for them, but also by having a larger number of different currencies than there are in the main game.  Or, similarly, will we be able to make quests in which the player has to collect a series of items in order to complete the quest?
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 14, 2011, 01:58:13
You'll be able to do all that.

Making quests will however be the most difficult aspect of designing a level. I haven't fully sorted out how it will work from a technical point of view, but I will probably design a (it'll be primitive, but still quite a challenge to design in MMF2) scripting language for quests. In seven working days all 1440 rooms in the game will be complete, 11 months after I started create the game. I'll dig into NPC's and quest scripting after that. Obviously this will by far be the game with the longest development time I've ever done.

To make things not too painfully difficult for me, I'll have some limitations. Each room can only connect to one quest (though a single quest can involve several rooms). Only one NPC in a single room can talk (though multiple NPC's can be in a single room). Only one item can be preset in a single room. That way, I only need to refer to room coordinates rather than specific object ID's or coordinates, and not have to figure out how to mark multiple things about a room on the world map in a small 16x16 pixel square. Of course I can make all that work too if I spend extra work, but I shouldn't waste time on things that are very easy to work around (just add more rooms).
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: pip on July 14, 2011, 17:37:19
How about fossils ? Small ones, big ones, rare ones, common ones ...... etc.
Mammal fossils could be what one NPC wants, Fish fossils another, Plants yet another.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 14, 2011, 20:35:46
That could definitely work too! Sounds fun to draw as well :)
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Dataflashsabot on July 15, 2011, 20:37:47
Irrelevant, but will it be possible to use one currency to buy another? Or are there no bureau de changes in Knyttwadf's world XD
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: PONTO on July 15, 2011, 21:25:39
As I understood it, Nifflas said that no, they will be independent, and thus not exchangeable.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: LPChip on July 15, 2011, 22:36:23
Indeed, there won't. The sole idea is that they act like keys to access certain areas. Once you have a currency, certain parts of the world become accessible.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: DiNo on July 25, 2011, 16:39:58
Sea shells would be awesome as the unvaluable currency. And they look like fossile ! :p
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 25, 2011, 20:09:51
I have many great ideas here. I'm also going to make each item unique as suggested earlier in this thread.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: back seat astronaut on July 26, 2011, 00:34:57
I can't wait to also make up my own currencies in the level editor.  :)  I already have level design ideas that involve using the currencies function to have the player collect a certain amount of several different types of objects.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Dj Gopher on July 27, 2011, 20:15:38
Seeds of a rare fruiting tree?
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Mr Fish on July 27, 2011, 21:46:43
first thing I thought of at reading the first lines of the thread was "paper clips", but that's just because I should really sleep.. it's just something silly that reminds me of something the characters from (for example) WaDF would do. X)
or some origami figures. :P
and I do like mushrooms, and not at all for the drug aspect. but acorns is nice too, they could just have gotten underground via a squirrel. although if you have acorn photos as background objects, that'd be weird...but on the other hand you also have mushrooms and flowers... XD
sleep->
mushrooms would be amazing...
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: egomassive on July 28, 2011, 02:47:59
Lowest currency form = Insects

A rare beadle or moth that must be caught (collided with.) You could even have varying kinds for varying environments, as long as they all have a similar visual style unique to currency.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Dj Gopher on July 28, 2011, 03:08:31
What about insect larvae? They don't try to run away when you buy a bag of chips :P
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Ultigonio on July 28, 2011, 22:49:39
In regards to the idea of using old technology for currency, I think that those teeny little button batteries would, aesthetically, fit quite well in terms of being currency.  And if you were to have greater forms of that same currency, you'd have bigger batteries (or different types entirely).  I feel like you could probably incorporate a typical battery checker somewhere in there somehow, whether it be for measurement, or, well... I don't know.

Were you to use flowers, I'd imagine that the petals would be most effective, but entire flowers would work as well, I suppose.  You'd have to have a nicely-reinforced patch to carry currency like that, designed so friction would tear the flowers apart....

This is a rather strange idea, and I'm not sure how you would go about executing it, but what if you were to use gigabytes/megabytes/etc, stored in some sort of memory stick or other piece of hardware (though this doesn't entirely make technological sense), as currency?  Or maybe use files that would take up space in your character's storage device(s) as a sort of currency?

You COULD even use something intangible, such as "inspiration," as your currency.  Gathering inspiration and giving it to painters or musicians, for instance.

Anyhow, that's my two pieces of undecided currency.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 29, 2011, 07:47:40
Haha, it would be awesome to just trade abstract items like megabytes, gigabytes, the internet or megahertz. "Give me eight gigabytes, and I'll give you some 64-bit in return."

Of course, this doesn't work in the Knytt world, so I can't do that :(

It gives me an idea though. In the game, humans aren't around any longer but they left a lot of stuff on the planet. Knytt characters are quite smart and could probably figure out human electronic devices - only they don't tend to have an interest doing that, which end up in them misinterpreting many things. Perhaps a quest can be related to a character who's collecting technology for a museum, and ask you to collect various items not knowing they're abstract, like megabytes or the internet. I'd just have to come up with actual items that can correspond to these measurements and abstract items, to make the misinterpretation make sense somehow...

So, if you didn't know what a Gigabyte was, what item would you picture it being?
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: LPChip on July 29, 2011, 09:09:46
A gigabyte: I would it be a huge mouth. (giga = huge, byte= bite)
The Internet: I  would make it somekind of fishing net.

64-bit: A camb with 64 pins? :)


EDIT: A gigabyte could also be somekind of chocolate bar, although I would think Megabyte fits a chocolate bar better than a gigabyte. :)
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 29, 2011, 14:00:52
Haha!
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: PONTO on July 29, 2011, 15:25:43
Or maybe flash drives / hard drives with the respective capacity written on them. It is interesting that storage devices with more capacity are typically bigger in size.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: sergiocornaga on July 29, 2011, 17:44:12
MicroSD cards might make good currency!
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 29, 2011, 20:29:26
When it comes to technical artifacts, the Knytt characters have very little information about what they are. They are probably familar with some terms, like megabytes or internet, but they do not know exactly what those items are. They don't have working computers after all, and are just trying to figure the devices out (though they're probably bound to fail).

If I label technological artifacts, it'd make most sense if they are labeled according to what term the characters in the game would assign to the item. If they know there's such a thing as a hard disk from some book they read, but not knowing what they are or look like, they'd probably believe that a CD is a hard disk.

Do you have ideas for other examples where they would make an incorrect assumption that still makes sense from their perspective? A chip can probably be a robot centipede.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Dj Gopher on July 29, 2011, 21:32:06
I like the idea..

Laser diode crystals could be "life stones", maybe?

What about keyboard key's representing money?
For example, 1!, 2@, 3#, 4$, 5%, 6^, 7&, 8*, 9(, 0) could represent a lower unit and 1(end), 2(down arrow), 3(page down), 4(left arrow), 5, 6(right arrow), 7(home), 8(up arrow), 9(page up), 0(Insert) could represent a higher unit.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 29, 2011, 22:05:46
Well, I was actually thinking they would be aware of some computer and technology terms. Perhaps some book made it into the underground, and they also have some of the technology (which they'll call "artifacts"), though they don't know how they work. So, they start mixing up names with each other, and in their attempts to make sense out of it all they'll describe many tech items with an incorrect tech term.

I like the idea of keys on keyboards. It'd be awesome to go on a quest to find a caps lock. Perhaps some keys have names that can be confused with non-keyboard related technology too?
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: egomassive on July 29, 2011, 23:48:00
In Knytt Stories the Knytt seem to have their own written language as seen on the orange buttons. Although some Knytt may be able to read human language, I don't think they all would. They should have their own interpretations of keyboard symbols where the letter/numbers are based on hieroglyphics which they have given their own meanings to. The 'J' could mean "fish hook". The 'M' could mean "cat ears". 'U' equals "smile". 'A' and 'V' for "male" an "female". The '+=' key could mean "death" as it looks like a grave. The keys should be associated with things that the Knytt know and feel are important or would have been important to humans.

It's probably too thin for a gameplay mechanic, but it could be used for entertaining info in the collection menu.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: sergiocornaga on July 30, 2011, 06:58:29
I like those ideas a lot, egomassive. A quest to assemble a keyboard (which would be pretty big in relation to the Knytts) sounds like fun too.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: J on July 30, 2011, 18:24:35
The 'J' could mean "fish hook".
I do not. >:I
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Dj Gopher on July 30, 2011, 20:04:21
I like those ideas a lot, egomassive. A quest to assemble a keyboard (which would be pretty big in relation to the Knytts) sounds like fun too.
Kind of how one might go on a dinosaur excavation?
Perhaps a way to gain an archaeologist's trust?

Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on August 01, 2011, 13:17:27
An archeologist searching for human artifacts. He's looking for "glyphs" which happen to be keys from a keyboard (though the Knytt characters are completely unaware of that). They'll all have names that correspond to what the letter actually looks like.

I think that's an awesome idea, so thanks a lot for it! I've said it once already, but this thread is turning out to be very inspirational.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Threrra on August 01, 2011, 16:31:19
-The Knytt could believe that computer chips were potato chips for robots. (Ok, this one is poor.) ;)

Seriously, I was hoping there were at least some hard studying knytts, who can read our 'ancient' letters, but as it sounds, they all are completely unaware of it. Anyway, here are some ideas which assume that some knytt can understand our language, but make mistakes while reading it:

-An old Knytt who likes 'ancient artifacts' tries to reconstruct human history. He has pages of a history book.
He finds pictures of electrical batteries and believes they were long ago used in battle. To 'support' his theory, he misreads battery sometimes mistakingly as "battlery".
A AA battery or a AAA battery looks to this Knytt like a 'battering ram' he once saw on one of his book pages.
A button cell looks to him like a shiny shield. But he isn't sure whether he mixed them up with normal buttons, so he wants you to find some for him to research.

-also: Some Knytts mistake  1GB RAM for a big ram (uncastrated male sheep)
-bugs --> computer bugs

-bluetooth: A knytt lives on an underground island. He can't leave it because he can't swim.
But he heard , that bluetooth was once used for connections. He wants you to find a blue tooth so he can build a bridge and finally leave his island.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: jimj316 on August 01, 2011, 20:09:14
I like the idea of having to assemble a computer. It could get pretty long, though, if you choose to include all 101 keys :P
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: goxc on August 02, 2011, 12:58:38
I know this thread has been around for a while and a lot of ideas are already out there but I figured another two cents couldn't hurt.

A few things that sprang to mind when I thought of currencies: Cogs, marshmallows (no idea why), clothes pegs, someone mentioned sheets of music and it made me think of having actual music notes as currency (maybe a bit too abstract), feathers from a particular bird, marbles, belt buckles.

Going with the technology theme, keyboard keys could literally be keys for unlocking doors. Megahertz could be mistaken for some kind of weapon. A mouse could be mistaken for an actual robot mouse, assuming mice exist in the Knytt universe (and it has wheels instead of feet. Get it, mouse-wheels? ... Maybe not).
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Mr Fish on April 13, 2012, 20:03:04
nuts and bolts? then higher valued ones in more valuable metal like gold, platinum etc.
this sprang to mind because i like the feel of chunks of metal, its strangely satisfying to roll them around in your hand  :crazy:
i also want mushrooms
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Mr Fish on May 05, 2012, 17:47:42
also, as far as things that couldnt actually grow in the places the creatures live, surely that is better? if the currency used could just grow anywhere then would you not just be able to grow or steal all your money from the ground?
if the currency was a certain type of flower, wouldnt the point be that the banking system would be the only one who can grow/ create money? or have i really got the wrong end of the stick here :S
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: GrayFace on May 06, 2012, 01:59:54
if the currency was a certain type of flower, wouldnt the point be that the banking system would be the only one who can grow/ create money?
There's been such currency in history. Some flower went well over its real value for some reason. People started growing a lot of it and then it collapsed. All today's currencies can be 'grown' by governments and gold can be 'grown' by gold mining. If flowers are a currency, one would need a whole lot of them to buy something. Or they would need to be magic so that one can't grow them easily.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Yonowaaru on May 06, 2012, 10:30:15
I happen to know the origin of that story. I'm fairy sure it's the tulip. Here in Holland, in our Golden Age, there was this huge tulip boom. Everyone wanted tulips that were special, but no one knew how to grow that specific type because it was basically a mutation and the prices for those special tulips kept going higher and higher until there were none left and the price basically dropped dead.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on May 06, 2012, 16:54:55
Interesting story :)

I've actually decided on four currencies now!
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Zelakon on May 08, 2012, 20:24:50
Interesting story :)

I've actually decided on four currencies now!

ooH..!
spoiLerz..?
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: back seat astronaut on July 23, 2012, 23:07:20
I have a question for Nifflas about the currency feature in this game.

I have plans for a level I want to make (assuming the game will still have a user-friendly level editor) and it involves having the player gather various perishable items (using the currency feature, so each type of item will simply be a customized currency.)  I know there was also talk earlier about perishable things like mushrooms and berries being good ideas for currencies.

So my question concerns whether it will be possible to make the currencies actually perishable in the game.  Say the player has ten of a certain type of berry, would it be possible for their number of that berry to decrease over time ("over time" could mean after moving through a certain number of screens) or to have their whole supply of that currency disappear if they have it too long (again, if they carry it through some number of screens)?  Also would it be possible to have one currency convert to another over time, so that if the player had some "unripe berries" they would eventually be replaced by the same number of "ripe berries" (and I guess likewise "ripe berries" could turn into "rotten berries" instead of just disappearing)?

Is this a feature that would be easy to add to the game?
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 24, 2012, 18:56:06
You'll be able to do all those things in your level as long as you can create a python script for it.

There will be things to take into account though. There is no function that triggers at timed events in the game. The only time you can measure is how long the player has played the current savefile. The trigger you'll need to use is one that happens as often as possible (e.g. when you enter a new room), then you can use the "time since player started the savefile" value to determine the difference between the current time and the time you picked up the unripe berry to decide what you should convert it into. The drawback will be that it only updates when you go to another room. That's quite often though.

The bottom line is, you'll be able to do tons of cool stuff if you can accept a few compromises and get into the Python scripting.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: LPChip on July 24, 2012, 19:48:46
I smell a wiki here :P
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: back seat astronaut on July 25, 2012, 01:50:06
I see.  So there's no chance of such a feature being added as something one could do through the level editor without scripting knowledge?

Unfortunately, I've never learned any kind of programming language in my life, and I feel like I'm too old to start.  :sad:  This is why I'll never be able to make games of my own, but only levels for other games.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Pie_Sniper on July 25, 2012, 07:38:28
I imagine there will be a number of people in the community willing to create scripts for people who aren't able to make them for themselves, and potentially a (community-generated) library of scripts for common functionality that isn't included in the basic editor.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: AA on July 25, 2012, 07:43:06
Unfortunately, I've never learned any kind of programming language in my life, and I feel like I'm too old to start.  :sad:  This is why I'll never be able to make games of my own, but only levels for other games.

Python isn't a hard language to learn. I suggest you give it a try when the game comes out; of course it also depends on what the KnyttWaDF modules provide you.
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: LPChip on July 25, 2012, 09:07:58
Unfortunately, I've never learned any kind of programming language in my life, and I feel like I'm too old to start.  :sad:
Don't worry. Especially with scripting languages for games, its often the basic stuff that you need, which is like just writing down what you want in a slightly more technical form.

Often you can copy/paste an existing script and modify it to your needs.

A script is all based upon logic. You tell the script what to do, and it'll do it.

So instead of saying: The ball has moved to x,y you write something like: ball.x = ?, ball.y = ?

The more advanced stuff will come once you understand the basic stuff and the interest is there.

The really really advanced stuff (where capable) will probably only happen by a few and they will most likely share their scripts. (this will be using phyton functions to not directly interact with the game. (where allowed)
Title: Re: Currencies?
Post by: Nifflas on July 27, 2012, 22:46:16
My intention is to make a template level that you can easily build levels with. You'll be able to have simple dialogs like the ones in Knytt Stories. However, if you want to have quests, dialog trees, or deal with an inventory, you must learn the scripting.