Nifflas' Support Forum

Released Games => NightSky => Topic started by: djsolidsnake86 on January 07, 2011, 18:36:10

Title: fullscreen?
Post by: djsolidsnake86 on January 07, 2011, 18:36:10
the fullscreen option doesn't work, is appear in a window the game with boarders
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: PONTO on January 07, 2011, 18:53:43
On some computers the fullscreen option doesn't work due to a problem with Multimedia Fusion 2. Happens on mine too... :(
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: zockerperlen on January 07, 2011, 20:04:23
Is there a fix for this problem?

I dont want to buy a game with only 33% fullscreen mode. But i like the game...
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: truestep on January 07, 2011, 20:51:47
I've solved this this way:
1. run settings.exe -> set full screen mode -> exit
2. run NightSky.exe
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: zockerperlen on January 07, 2011, 21:05:44
I have dont this too, of course. And i have fullscreen, but the game screen is only ~ 33% of fullscreen.

For example:

(http://www.abload.de/img/nofullscreen9mb8.jpg)
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: J on January 07, 2011, 21:27:07
Aye, this is a problem with MMF2. You may've seen the same behaviour in previous Nifflas games too.
Whenever the native C++ version is completed and bug-free, you should be able to fullscreen with stretch with that. :)
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Nifflas on January 07, 2011, 21:28:54
Yeah, this will be better in the C++ build. I can't do anything about this in the MMF2 build since the resolution is handled by MMF2 itself.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: zockerperlen on January 07, 2011, 22:33:23
Ok, do you know when the c++ build will be released?
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: J on January 07, 2011, 23:04:41
Not as of yet.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Nifflas on January 08, 2011, 00:23:19
We're trying to get it done as soon as possible! When Jamie posts the first C++ build, please help testing it, this will speed up the process!
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: back seat astronaut on January 08, 2011, 01:50:32
I was going to ask about this too.  Because, I can't remember if Saira also did this, but I'm pretty sure Knytt Stories didn't.  Weren't all these games made in MMF2?
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Nifflas on January 08, 2011, 01:58:07
Depends on the game resolution, aspect ratio and MMF2's "keep aspect ratio" threshold, graphics drivers supported screen resolutions, if it's run in software or hardware mode. Don't ask me exactly how all the parameters work together, but it's not up to me to fix it in either case. I just wish MMF2 had a proper "stretch to fit, but keep aspect ratio" feature. This will be fixed in the C++ build of course!
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: back seat astronaut on January 08, 2011, 02:08:29
Now I almost wish I had waited for this C++ version so that my first experience of the game could be in fullscreen.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Nifflas on January 08, 2011, 02:33:58
Yeah, I guess it could make sense.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Bennett on January 09, 2011, 22:21:32
This makes the game unplayable for me, since I have a widescreen 1920x1080 screen (like many people) and it only takes up about 1/4 or 1/6 of the space. To get the game to fill the screen, I have to set it to 640x480, but then everything is squished sideways which makes the physics problems artificially hard.

To be honest Nifflas I'm a bit annoyed that you were aware that this would be a limitation but didn't say so anywhere on the purchasing website. I would have held off on buying it, because as it is I just can't play it. There's no info about MMF or any future C++ build on the Nicalis website either.

Really looking forward to playing this game, which looks wonderful, once you've fixed the problems.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: LPChip on January 09, 2011, 22:23:37
To be honest Nifflas I'm a bit annoyed that you were aware that this would be a limitation but didn't say so anywhere on the purchasing website. I would have held off on buying it, because as it is I just can't play it. There's no info about MMF or any future C++ build on the Nicalis website either.

Really looking forward to playing this game, which looks wonderful, once you've fixed the problems.
I'm sorry to say this, but this is bullshit.

The sole reason why a demo is being released is to test if the game works on your pc and to see how it performs. You would've seen this problem already in the demo and could've asked before you bought the game.

Nifflas really cannot be blamed for you being too enthusiastic and buy the game without testing if it actually runs fine on your computer.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: BloxMaster on January 09, 2011, 22:29:33
@Bennett: I don't really find this a 'limitation' at all. And, more importantly, the way MMF2 handles fullscreen it's gonna look the exact same as when you lower the resolution; it just stretches it. I play fullscreen with the window not stretched, but simply centered and it isn't too small if you are playing on a normal monitor (even if it is fullHD).

I think you assume a lot of things in your post. Not everyone has a fullHD display, Nifflas is not to blame for this (he already mentioned he can't really fix it), and just because you find it a limitation, doesn't mean he does, nor anyone else.
In my opinion you got a great game, and you'd be selling it short if you let this so called 'limitation' ruin your experience.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Bennett on January 09, 2011, 22:38:13
The sole reason why a demo is being released is to test if the game works on your pc and to see how it performs. You would've seen this problem already in the demo and could've asked before you bought the game.

If a game turns out to be bad or not entertaining, I agree there's no valid complaint if you didn't try the demo. But I think it's totally reasonable to assume a game won't be broken. I don't think we're at the point where you have to download and install a demo for every game just to make sure its fullscreen mode will actually fill your screen. And I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that a game you pay for will be able to work in fullscreen mode rather than in a tiny letterbox that fills 1/6th of the screen.

In my opinion you got a great game, and you'd be selling it short if you let this so called 'limitation' ruin your experience.

I'm sure it is a wonderful game, but I'm not going to play it when it's filling up 1/6th of my screen. My PC is plugged into a TV, and I just can't see the game at that size. That would absolutely ruin my experience!
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Nifflas on January 09, 2011, 23:36:32
The full screen mode is meant to work and keep the display proportional. It sure works nicely on my laptop, but I can not guarantee it does on every monitor or graphics card, and I have no idea why. The game is supposed to start, but I don't know if there can be a dependency problem with a specific machine, or software/hardware setup. The game is not supposed to crash, but there can be a problem causing it to crash on some machines anyway.

Unfortunately, I can't list everything that can potentially go wrong on every machine. A PC is a mess of incompatible standards created by tons of manifacturers and developers. You can never be 100% sure any game will run at all before you have tried. This is why you always need to try a demo for a Windows game. This is why I made sure that savegames from the demo can run in the full version.

However, a full screen C++ version is on the way which won't have this problem. Jamie will start posting the betas very soon.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Bennett on January 09, 2011, 23:52:28
Yeah, I mean obviously I understand that bugs happen on PCs, or on any platform, and I'm sure you'll ultimately fix this one with your C++ build. My games have had their share of horrible bugs.

It's just a bit frustrating to me that you knew about this one in advance.

I don't normally get demos because it takes forever to download and install and uninstall them, and I feel like they spoil the experience of the full game. Surely I'm not alone in that regard. And I don't usually assume that 2D indie games will be technically impossible to run on my computer (and I don't recall it ever happening before).

Anyway, enough complaining, I just think it might be nice if you could just post some kind of note (under a system requirements page, for example) so people can see this before buying it. I'm sure this is why most games have a system requirements page.

To be clear, the game does start. It's just it takes up a tiny proportion of the screen. I updated the graphics drivers to the newest versions, and now I can't even set 640x480 anymore so there's literally nothing I can do about it.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Nifflas on January 09, 2011, 23:59:11
The only thing I knew in advance was some monitors inability to use a really low resolution, I didn't think the problem would happen often. However, I'd be happier if people try the demo than needing to put a whole bunch of notices at the website about everything I know can go wrong in Multimedia Fusion 2 games.

I've built a version that doesn't keep the aspect ratio (http://www.ni2.se/temp/NightSky DontKeepRatio.exe) and allows the game to change to more resolutions. I have no idea if it'll help but you can put it in your NightSky directory and try. Make sure the settings tool is set to "Full Screen" and not "Maximized". Also remember that the Settings program will launch NightSky.exe and not NightSky DontKeepRatio.exe (which is the one you want to try), just so that you start the right version.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Bennett on January 10, 2011, 00:04:20
This one works properly - thanks a lot Nifflas.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Nifflas on January 10, 2011, 00:10:14
How about this version (http://www.ni2.se/temp/NightSky Tolerance25.exe) and this version (http://www.ni2.se/temp/NightSky Tolerance16.exe)? I know the problem is solved, but it would be better if the game can still try to keep the aspect ratio than ignoring it completely (otherwise there's a risk for the Knytt Stories stretch problems instead). If this work, I can release this version as 1.0.1.

If I release the one which doesn't keep the aspect ratio at all, I can break the resolution for some players in the process of fixing it for others.

The more people that can test this, the more helpful it'll be!
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Bennett on January 10, 2011, 00:24:58
I'll try these out tomorrow and report back. (Gone to bed now)
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: PONTO on January 10, 2011, 01:07:57
I may test these tomorrow as well. :)
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: back seat astronaut on January 10, 2011, 02:03:33
I too will try those and report back, since I also have the fullscreen problem.

I just wanted to comment in defense of those of us who didn't try the demo, that when I'm excited for a game and I know I want to own it, I usually don't even think about demos.  I had already paid for the full version of NightSky before I even noticed there was a demo link on the page.  I think of demos as being for people to see if they like the game, not for seeing if their computer will run it.  The latter is why there is beta testing, why game developers release minimum and recommended system requirements, and so forth, not why there are demos.  I've never heard of demos being thought of as a technical trial rather than a gameplay trial.  I'm not complaining, I'm just playing the devil's advocate and explaining why some people would never think to use a demo as a "can I run it?" test.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Gorfinhofin on January 10, 2011, 02:30:56
Beta testing is for bugs in the game itself that are consistent with every system it's played on. It could also be for testing minimum/recommended systems, but that does not account for everything that could go wrong on specific systems. If game developers took the time to test their games with every single combination of specs imaginable, their games would never be released. That is what the demo is for.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Nifflas on January 10, 2011, 06:16:55
Quote
I've never heard of demos being thought of as a technical trial rather than a gameplay trial.  I'm not complaining, I'm just playing the devil's advocate and explaining why some people would never think to use a demo as a "can I run it?" test.
Again, a PC running Windows is a horrible mess of incompatible standards between hardware and software manifacturers. There's absolutely no way I, as a developer, can even with a bunch of betatesters know everything that's going to happen. Sure, I had heard that sometime the game couldn't go full screen, but I still didn't know how often I could expect the problem to happen, not even the actual cause.

You're expecting the smallest possible game studio to be perfect, or if I turn out not to be I should put every potential problem out on my website. Please, I'm trying as hard as I can here, I even posted three test versions to figure out which I should make the 1.0.1 version that'll probably fix this problem so I'm trying to be helpful too, but again, I can still not guarantee a game will work on your computer. However, I can guarantee that the demo will let you know!
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: back seat astronaut on January 10, 2011, 06:41:47
Again, I wasn't complaining or saying there was anything more you should have done about this, nor was I agreeing with everything the other poster said.  I was strictly commenting on the notion that the whole responsibility falls upon the player to always test a game on their system by playing a demo first.  That notion seems like a stretch to me.  Many games don't even release demos.

Beta testing is for bugs in the game itself that are consistent with every system it's played on. It could also be for testing minimum/recommended systems, but that does not account for everything that could go wrong on specific systems. If game developers took the time to test their games with every single combination of specs imaginable, their games would never be released. That is what the demo is for.
Then why has almost every beta test I've ever been involved in asked for my system specs?  I've participated in beta tests where I know for a fact that the developers were very interested in knowing what kind of system any given bug was occurring on.  The truth is that a major aspect of beta testing, as I've experienced it, is in fact finding out about bugs that happen not just to all systems, but to specific specs.  If the point was only to find bugs that would happen on any and every system, there would be no need for public beta tests, they could just test the game on one system and find all the bugs of the type you're talking about.  The only reason to have a bunch of people with different systems test a game at all is to catch the bugs that aren't on every system, but only on some.  As for demos, they seem usually to have more to do with marketing and trying to get players interested in the game.  I repeat that the notion that a major reason for the existence of demos is for players to test the game on their systems, is quite a stretch, and I doubt it's how most people think about demos.

(Again, just playing the devil's advocate on this one issue.  I don't hold anything against Nifflas for releasing the game in its current state.)
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Nifflas on January 10, 2011, 06:48:53
There are no problems with NightSky's specs, it'll run on more or less any computer. However, there are so many more potential setups the game can run on than I can have betatesters, and I work harder than a full time employee, I'm often exausted near a game release, and to do all this properly with many more betatesters and me gathering, processing, understanding all data, fixing, sending out new test versions - then I really need that extra full time employee that I can't yet afford. That, or I can further delay everything I do.

And again, plenty of game websites tells the users to try the demo first.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: back seat astronaut on January 10, 2011, 06:52:42
Nifflas, I sympathize with how hard you're working, and I feel the need to say one more time (and then I'll shut up), that I'm not complaining or saying you should have done anything differently, as the other poster before me was.  I was only commenting, for the sake of discussion, on the nature and purpose of demos and beta tests as they are perceived by gamers.  I'm sorry if discussions like this are annoying when you're just released a game and are working very hard.  I hope I've made it clear that the points I was trying to make above are not directed at the way NightSky has been handled.  (And with that I will stop talking again!  :oops:)
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Nifflas on January 10, 2011, 07:07:13
Okey, I think I got the point. People look at demos as something that shows what the game is like, not if it work or not. I don't know what else to do than the recommendation though. I guess I have to add it to the website.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to see the results of the tests of the three executables I posted on the last page. The more results I get, the better I can pick which version to use.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: LPChip on January 10, 2011, 09:31:58
Okey, I think I got the point. People look at demos as something that shows what the game is like, not if it work or not. I don't know what else to do than the recommendation though. I guess I have to add it to the website.
Nifflas, its really expected that people check the demo to see if it runs well on their system. If they just say: well its an indie game so it must run well on my system, then its their fault if they buy it and it appears not to be. Every major company says this. If you wouldn't work this way, you will give way too much energy to something this small. All your games suffer from this problem. So I suppose you need to add this info to Saira and FiNCK too...

I really wouldn't add this info if I were you though... Thats the sole purpose of releasing a demo. You could add the text: Please try the demo to see if it runs well on your system before buying it. But thats just stating the obvious.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Miss Paula on January 10, 2011, 13:29:47
hm, for my laptop with integrated graphics chip none of the versions give me an actual fullscreen game, just the same game window with the blackened rest of the screen.
not that it bothers me, I like playing windowed games most. :P

also I really dislike when there are no demos available for games, for example on steam, because with my shitty graphics setup I háve to check if it turns out even playable. and if it doesn't I'm :sad: and want a new laptop. X) anyways, that's my point of view on demos, I check if the game would be playable, and of course also try to see if the game style etc seems likeable enough to me. but yeah, that discussion is quite concluded now, I think. :)
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: heartskuppy on January 19, 2011, 06:46:27
I really wouldn't add this info if I were you though... Thats the sole purpose of releasing a demo. You could add the text: Please try the demo to see if it runs well on your system before buying it. But thats just stating the obvious.

haha, it may be stating the obvious, but when i read this text on the game's page i thought "hmm, yeah, maybe i should!" i guess i saw it as kind of an honest warning. so yeah.. in future, people have no excuse to assume that it will just run fine and dandy on their machine.

i prefer maximised, anyway.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Jakal on May 18, 2011, 16:28:59
I'd like to add my voice to those above who are troubled by the lack of functional fullscreen support (in regard to the Steam release... I'm not sure if this has yet been fixed in non-Steam releases).  I represent one of the larger gaming communities and would love to promote this title there (the gameplay, puzzles, aesthetic, and soundtrack are all excellent), but can't do that with the fullscreen compatability in its current state.  This is the only serious flaw with the game, so I figure it'd be a priority to fix.  I can assure you that in terms of new sales, fixing this is worth your time.

I look forward to seeing the Steam-version of NightSky fixed as soon as possible so that we can bring this awesome game more exposure!

PS - While you're at it, it'd be great if the game stopped accepting keyboard input when the Steam overlay was pulled up... I have to use underscores rather than spaces if I want to type a Steam IM without restarting the level.   :P2
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Sendy on July 24, 2011, 00:29:11
I don't know if this has been resolved, but I had this problem, at first I thought the game was designed to be small, and I'd beaten easy mode with the small screen... Then I tried http://www.ni2.se/temp/NightSky%20Tolerance25.exe (http://www.ni2.se/temp/NightSky%20Tolerance25.exe) and it gave me proper fullscreen... Which does look a lot nicer now that I see it :)
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: Nifflas on July 24, 2011, 17:15:58
I actually never liked the quirky "keep aspect ratio" modifications, because it's still done wrong in Multimedia Fusion 2 itself. Now, finally (about time) a guy created an addon which enables a game to go full screen without changing the display resolution.

I'm right now uploading a version 1.1 of the game to the download area, but you can also try this new game executable (http://www.ni2.se/temp/NightSky%2011.exe) if you're e.g. on the Steam version.

I don't dare to update the Steam version to 1.1 yet, because this build completely changes how the game goes full screen (and I can not unfortunately support both the new and old behaviour at the same time, again by limitations in MMF2 itself). If I get a build up on Steam, it's going to automatically update for most people and I don't think there's a way to reverse the update, so I need to know this doesn't come with any problems I'm unaware of.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: PONTO on July 24, 2011, 18:55:17
Just want to report that this new .exe works like a charm.
At last! This looks preeeeety! O_O
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: egomassive on October 07, 2011, 06:02:09
I know this is an old thread, but I have something that may help combine the two versions of Night Sky into one. In my Knytt Stories mod (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=4175.0) I found a way to include MMF2's native fullscreen and native scaling into a single program. You may be able to do something similar with the native fullscreen and Ultimate Walrus' fullscreen.
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: internisus on November 14, 2012, 05:15:44
It's been quite a long time since this thread has seen any activity.  I'm wondering, was the Steam version ever updated to the build that has working full screen?
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: billyboob on December 13, 2012, 04:16:50
Steam version still doesn't scale to fullscreen. Humble Bundle NightSkyHD version does though. Now I can finally play the game (so many indie games wont play nice on 16:9).
Title: Re: fullscreen?
Post by: FanOfTamago on December 27, 2012, 21:39:20
 >(

Hello, I bought the game on Steam and would love to play it full screen but the link posted to the fixed executable is now broken.  Can you please patch on Steam or provide a working link for a fixed executable?  Thank you!