Nifflas' Support Forum

Released Games => Knytt Underground => Pre-release topics => Topic started by: Nifflas on November 11, 2010, 23:43:25

Title: Knytt powers? (concluded)
Post by: Nifflas on November 11, 2010, 23:43:25
What kind of powers should a Knytt type of character have? Think how it's done in Knytt Stories.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: LPChip on November 11, 2010, 23:52:14
Something that I'd love to see is the ability to swim.

If you don't have the powerup, touching water will kill you. If you have it, it will allow you to slowly sink to the bottom until you hit the bottom, giving different physics.

Of course, there still can be lava and other kinds of waters (acid?) that will continue to kill you, so only one special type of water can be used.

There could be even different powerups for this. One will allow you to get into the water (a skill) but only for a limited time, while another is a diving suit that will allow you to actually stay under water for unlimited time.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: SiamJai on November 12, 2010, 09:14:21
If I learned anything from KS levels, it's that many times the run powerup is taken for granted, and players complain if it's not there. So this Knytt-type character could perhaps come with it as default, making slow movement optional (button-triggered).

Also, the dual-character setup presents an opportunity for each char to come with its own unique limited set of movements with little overlap. Ie. the Knytt-type guy could lack high jump/double jump, making the ball to be the only choice to cover larger vertical ground. The Knytt guy could then cover more horizontal ground either with a 'longjump' powerup or with a tool (in the way of the Knytt-kite, for example).
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: Nifflas on November 12, 2010, 10:02:35
Quote
If I learned anything from KS levels, it's that many times the run powerup is taken for granted, and players complain if it's not there. So this Knytt-type character could perhaps come with it as default, making slow movement optional (button-triggered).
Yeah, running is always on by default now.

Quote
Also, the dual-character setup presents an opportunity for each char to come with its own unique limited set of movements with little overlap. Ie. the Knytt-type guy could lack high jump/double jump, making the ball to be the only choice to cover larger vertical ground. The Knytt guy could then cover more horizontal ground either with a 'longjump' powerup or with a tool (in the way of the Knytt-kite, for example).
That's the idea actually!
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: sergiocornaga on November 12, 2010, 11:53:48
That's the idea actually!

Strange, I would have thought of it the other way around! This Knytt can climb, right? I really like that ability. I'd think that would make it a better choice for tackling high-up things, while I'd associate the generally fast and floaty WaDF ball with covering long distances through the air.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: Pick Yer Poison on November 12, 2010, 17:09:54
The ability to duck and get into small passages the ball can't. As a bonus, you could use this to restrict the player from going past a certain point until they've gained their Knytt form, if that's how you're going to make it work.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: LPChip on November 12, 2010, 17:22:06
Just to put things back into perspective for Nifflas.

Nifflas has already thought about how the Knytt and WaDF aspect of the game work together. Nifflas is looking for abilities the Knytt has when s/he's a Knytt, not how to get certain puzzle aspects. Nifflas already has that part nailed.

I know this because I already had the same idea. I also gave some advise, and found out that Nifflas already pretty much has thought this one out.

Nifflas still likes to hear ideas about what the character as Knytt can do.

Perhaps in a future stage, when the abilities become more known, he'll revise how switching between Knytt and the ball work in game. Would he then ask for advice, I'm sure he'll do it in public.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: Nifflas on November 12, 2010, 18:16:11
Quote
Strange, I would have thought of it the other way around! This Knytt can climb, right? I really like that ability. I'd think that would make it a better choice for tackling high-up things, while I'd associate the generally fast and floaty WaDF ball with covering long distances through the air.
Yeah, it can climb, but not jump high or double jump. In other words, the ball might need to be used to reach a certain height, then you can transform to a ball up in the air and grab onto a wall.

I wouldn't say this is as simple as a x vs y speed thing. The characters are very different, they handle both horizontal and vertical stuff differently. Anyway, just ideas about powers are great, I won't go deeper into how this works in the game. But as LPChip said, I'm not taking ideas about how the WaDF ball or Knytt should interact between each other here, this is mainly about powers the knytt character can have on its own.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: back seat astronaut on November 13, 2010, 00:10:07
How about digging?  I would love to see a knytt character dig tunnels through the ground.  Of course I have no idea if it's possible.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: LPChip on November 13, 2010, 00:15:19
Although digging is a cool feature even in any direction, it requires certain limits otherwise, the player could dig himself out of any level and get into voids easy, or even get past obstacles.

If you want to otherwise limit a player's access unless a certain powerup is in possession, it could be like a hazard mask to get past a dangerous area.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: Comhon on November 13, 2010, 12:47:58
How about digging?  I would love to see a knytt character dig tunnels through the ground.  Of course I have no idea if it's possible.
There could be special walls, which could be digged, or mask to set the area which could be digged. Using it, knytt will be able to dig to the cave area, dig trough wall to some special part of level or something like it.

A special power that allows player to visit toxic areas would improve game possibilites too.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: Yoeri on November 13, 2010, 13:07:20
How about crawling? The knytt character would be able to get through narrow spaces that the ball character wouldn't.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: egomassive on November 13, 2010, 13:33:43
I don't think you can separate the ball/Knytt interaction, from the question of what power-ups the Knytt needs. It's really a question of how can we improve the Knytt when the ball is so mobile?

Anyway, I have 2 ideas.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: Headgrinder on November 13, 2010, 20:02:39
Grappling hook!

http://messhof.com/you-found-the-grappling-hook/

Aside from that, I'd just like to point out that one of the amazing things about a fully powered knytt is just how fun it is to go flying through levels that where previously impossible to navigate.  It is the epitome of NOW I HAVE POOOOWWWWEEEERRR!
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: smeagle on November 14, 2010, 01:53:30
I had an idea while watching my friend play "red dead redemption".

He enjoys using completely game breaking cheats, and was a bit annoyed about the "not being able to save" obstacle when using cheats.

Now, with the original Knytt, I REALLY enjoyed the long jump and fast run power up cheats. Maybe an option would be to have cheats, such as the hang glider and balloon, however remove all of the save points while playing with such cheats.

I have to say that playing knytt with the hang glider was the most fun I have ever had with a platforming game.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: Alaquiddin on November 14, 2010, 03:20:02
Climbing gloves, being able to climb walls.
Hiking shoes, being able to run faster.
Flashlight, Pressing "F" will make your character flash brighter and repel certain enemies.
Happy mask, Acquiring this will make enemies smile. Smiling enemies tend to shoot less projectiles.
Broken typewriter, your character has a knack in repairing items. Only this hunk of junk is irrepairible. Slows your character down.
Good world wrench, press down on screws in the ground and you will tighten them, making bridges come down, or trapdoors open up.
Hover bracelets, press S and hold down and you will hover in air for three seconds. Let go of S to drop down. Use arrow keys to slowly navigate.
Flimsy balloon pack, Press B to bring out the balloon. You will start rising up and while doing so, gaining momentum. Hitting anything upwards will pop the balloon.
Bouncy shoes, press S to jump, and when you land press S and you will bounce off of the ground.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: AClockworkLemon on November 14, 2010, 07:22:31
Climbing gloves, being able to climb walls.
Hiking shoes, being able to run faster.
Flashlight, Pressing "F" will make your character flash brighter and repel certain enemies.
Happy mask, Acquiring this will make enemies smile. Smiling enemies tend to shoot less projectiles.
Broken typewriter, your character has a knack in repairing items. Only this hunk of junk is irrepairible. Slows your character down.
Good world wrench, press down on screws in the ground and you will tighten them, making bridges come down, or trapdoors open up.
Hover bracelets, press S and hold down and you will hover in air for three seconds. Let go of S to drop down. Use arrow keys to slowly navigate.
Flimsy balloon pack, Press B to bring out the balloon. You will start rising up and while doing so, gaining momentum. Hitting anything upwards will pop the balloon.
Bouncy shoes, press S to jump, and when you land press S and you will bounce off of the ground.


But for the Happy Mask, Niiiiiiice :D
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: saba on November 15, 2010, 19:18:54
To be honest, I like that in Knytt Stories you have to get a powerup to run.

A few challenges in some levels depend on this, making enemies that aren't that challenging when you can run, quite difficult when you have to walk. Same with jumps.

Also it's a nice way to force people to look at the environment and listen to the music more  :P2
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: Headgrinder on November 16, 2010, 01:05:00
How about the knytt can die if it falls from a certain height... until they get a power up that sets it back to infinite falls?
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: minmay on November 16, 2010, 17:48:39
A slide ability - not in the Mega Man "slide forward" sense, but in the "slide down hills and off ramps" sense.  Could also be used as a substitution for duck/crawl (slide under low ceilings, you'd need some momentum beforehand which could make for good puzzles).
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: PONTO on November 17, 2010, 11:59:40
Also it's a nice way to force people to look at the environment and listen to the music more  :P2
If you have to force players onto that, you're doing it wrong. :P
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: Pick Yer Poison on November 17, 2010, 14:16:47
I think the biggest reason one would want to use the Knytt would be a ceiling with spikes or something. :D

Also it's a nice way to force people to look at the environment and listen to the music more  :P2
If you have to force players onto that, you're doing it wrong. :P
Pretty much this. They're not enjoying the environment if they're angry at being forced into it.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: Alaquiddin on November 17, 2010, 16:02:08
I think the biggest reason one would want to use the Knytt would be a ceiling with spikes or something. :D

Or maybe after awhile you have to use the knytt to push certain ball types
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: Nifflas on November 18, 2010, 12:50:13
I've decided some new things now. I want to keep the button usage to a minimum. Arrows, A and S will control the main character in both the ball and knytt mode (though it will be customizable) and a third button will change between the characters. This is because I'm thinking in minimal gamepads so that the game could in theory be ported to any other system. That means that any power must be mapped on a very limited key layout, and I must be creative about which powers I add.

By this reason, to push a specific button to pop up a certain object will be difficult. It'll be a lot more about combinations of the existing buttons; standing on the ground while pressing Up and pressing S to make some special jump, and so on. You get the idea :) Apart from the hologram power, Knytt Stories practiced this.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: PONTO on November 18, 2010, 13:59:57
Apart from the hologram power, Knytt Stories practiced this.
Actually, the hologram power also worked under that principle, as it could be summoned by pressing down twice. ;)
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: jetio4 on November 18, 2010, 14:56:30
In that case, how about pressing horizontal arrow twice makes it run? Then you'll have both walk and run. (I haven't play Kyntt Stories yet, so don't know if it's already like that :P)
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: PONTO on November 18, 2010, 16:48:54
It's not, but what are you waiting for??
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: Pick Yer Poison on November 18, 2010, 17:10:14
In that case, how about pressing horizontal arrow twice makes it run? Then you'll have both walk and run. (I haven't play Kyntt Stories yet, so don't know if it's already like that :P)

OBJECTION!

Here's the scenario: You're working on a meticulous jump and accidentally tap the right arrow key two times in rapid succession, causing your character to run off the edge and die. After this happens a few times you give up, disgusted with the inability of the controls to work with you.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: Nifflas on November 18, 2010, 19:00:33
Ah, don't worry, there'll be no walking in this game anyway. Besides, that'd just be impossible/annoying because of some other game mechanics I haven't explained yet.

Quote
Actually, the hologram power also worked under that principle, as it could be summoned by pressing down twice. ;)
Yeah, the W button was added to an update if I don't remember wrong since I got reports from people who couldn't hit the button twice fast enough, which was to me unexpected. I learnt my lession though, avoid double button hits.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: jetio4 on November 18, 2010, 19:33:34
It's not, but what are you waiting for??

I'm waiting for me to get MY computer back. The one I can download on. I've played WaDF and Kyntt, but was planning to beat Kyntt before moving on to Kyntt Stories.
[/offtopic]

How about Kyntt  being able to fall into holes too small for regular balls?
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: LPChip on November 18, 2010, 21:45:35
How about Kyntt  being able to fall into holes too small for regular balls?
How is that a power?

Remember... Nifflas is looking for powerups that the knytt might have, not features for the game itself.

[mod]fixed the quote you presumably intended :P2[/mod]
Edit by LPChip: Thanks Paula. I knew something went wrong. I fixed it twice, but couldn't put my finger on it... :nuts:

Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: PONTO on November 19, 2010, 12:08:02
 :whoa:

Nice avatar! The Knytt character looks great.

[mod]now now, you're not supposed to lead the conversation astray with talks about people's avatars. :P also I think he looks kind of adorably retarded. :P2[/mod]
Edit by PONTO: Sorry, Miss Paula, won't happen again. :P
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: Miss Paula on November 19, 2010, 12:36:45
euh, back to topic....
will there be umbrella action again? or something else that can shield/deflect (lasers? (by a mirror thing))....I dunno.
also I think there really really has to be the option to make him rock out. like headbanging. Like
(http://i.imgur.com/QaQ9m.gif)
yep, definitely. :|
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: Pick Yer Poison on November 19, 2010, 13:53:36
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Knytt powers? (concluded)
Post by: Nifflas on November 23, 2010, 13:13:36
Thanks for the suggestions! I've added what the game needs now. It'll be much fewer powers than I first thought, but instead the ones I came with have so many possibilities that I can design hundreds of different puzzles around them. Portal for example only have a single weapon that still spawns endless puzzle mechanics, and I like to think I managed to do something slightly similar (though with completely different powers) :D

Playing as a knytt character will be super easy, and playing as a ball will be medium. Playing in "mixed" mode where you have to transform between them will be difficult, but rewarding as you'll be able to pull off some absolutely crazy moves.
Title: Re: Knytt powers?
Post by: heartskuppy on December 15, 2010, 00:08:04
i am really, really liking the sound of this. C)

also I think there really really has to be the option to make him rock out. like headbanging. Like
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
yep, definitely. :|

i approve of this suggestion. C)p
Title: Re: Knytt powers? (concluded)
Post by: Zackarii on January 06, 2011, 22:02:07
I bet I'm far too late, but I just wanted to share my idea.

In one of the very early posts, there was a suggestion about digging. I think its a good idea, but as someone said, it could be used to skip through things and fall into voids. Well I thought of something that could be added to help with the digger. In the Knytt Stories level editing program, there are things to make where you can walk through walls if you have the eye (I think so at least. Its either that or the lines you can see with the eye can be used as a hint), where you can give off a teal colour with the Detector, and something that prevents climbing walls.

Well my idea is having one of those things, but instead of a space where you can't climb, it makes you able to dig through walls, terrain, ect. So it would be like the No Climb/No Jump/Sticky.ect squares in the banks in the level editor

I hope I'm making sense. It seems to make sense to me. If someone already put something like this, I'm sorry, as I hadn't seen any with this idea, so if there is a post like this, I must have accidently missed it.