Nifflas' Support Forum

Released Games => Knytt Underground => Pre-release topics => Topic started by: Nifflas on November 11, 2010, 23:40:24

Title: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on November 11, 2010, 23:40:24
What kind of location themes would you like to see in the game? I have some classic ones already from my previous games, such as a temple, a forest, a mushroom forest, and a flowery place.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: LPChip on November 11, 2010, 23:57:32
A cave! I love a cave!

Mountains work too. The two can be connected of cource. Some desert also is nice, a city perhaps. Maybe certain small settings like on a train or inside a building. I dunno if you have the ability to shift in the game, so you can enter a building etc...
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on November 12, 2010, 00:00:31
Hmmm, inside a moving vehicle is hard. You can't shift "into the screen" in this game, but you can enter doors sideways, sort of like the home of bebisharen in WaDF. I could probably do a train or a building. Also, since it's hard to describe settings other than the regular ones that appear in real life often (desert, forest, cave with magically glowing crystals) feel free to link to online pictures that looks like something inspiring!
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Dj Gopher on November 12, 2010, 02:16:13
What about a mysterious region, small in size, that is mostly black. It could be foggy to make it have that eerie feel, and the music could be a remix of an old game. I think this game is to tie in some nostalgia, right? You could have a few little references to old games there.
For location, I'd vote one of those places that is hard to get to and entirely avoidable.
(sort of like the statue of the original saira sprite in saira)

Edit:
Included an example, sorry it's messy..
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: sergiocornaga on November 12, 2010, 06:02:25
I'd love a location referencing Ljus... maybe your flowery place is already like that?

A city would be nice too, like in abandoned WaDF2.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: B-Man on November 12, 2010, 06:45:43
A glass tunnel (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/122/309132934_bee72ae0bf.jpg) has a lot of potential, simply 'cause they look really cool to walk through. Plus, it's a pretty flexible design- since these tunnels are protective but also decorative, you could have a tunnel going through just about any location- a sky bridge in a city, underwater in a coral reef, inside a volcano in some evil base, etc...

It'd also be cool to see  treetop walkways. (http://www.fewo-pfaffensee.de/pict/baumwipfel_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Grookie on November 12, 2010, 07:12:11
It can be in the sense of some of planets in Saira...
(I call them "coloured", because they aren't black  C))

Lomond (if this is the flower place?); (lush, green, grass, blue water)
Mihika (morning fog, before rain, glowing flowers)
Ashoun (caves, rocks, ruins, autumn)
Hoffman (magical place, glowing flowers, "spatulas" in background)
Sekkei (eternal winter, ice, cold)
Nyquist-Meyer (polluted, ruined, foggy, toxic)
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: LPChip on November 12, 2010, 09:33:16
Hmmm, inside a moving vehicle is hard. You can't shift "into the screen" in this game, but you can enter doors sideways, sort of like the home of bebisharen in WaDF. I could probably do a train or a building. Also, since it's hard to describe settings other than the regular ones that appear in real life often (desert, forest, cave with magically glowing crystals) feel free to link to online pictures that looks like something inspiring!

As for a moving vehicle: I actually only mean that the vehicle is stationary but the background animation makes it appear to be moving.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on November 12, 2010, 10:01:22
Those are nice ideas :D
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Miss Paula on November 12, 2010, 10:33:33
something with water! underwater or at least in a place that's located underwater (lab...) and fishies! :huh:
also: sand walker turtles. MUST. :P ;)
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: SiamJai on November 12, 2010, 10:57:55
LOL @ Paula and her turtles! C)p

How about an indoor steampunk environment: blinking, beeping gizmos, lotsa pipes and exposed cables, large old-looking yet high-tech machinery with wheels, gears and levers?

Or a gloomy industrial setting: faded low-contrast colors, blocky structures; abandoned, dirty back alleys, a feeling of hopelessness? A graveyard of discarded machines?

Or the two combined, in a 'past/future' 'before/after' setting.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Pick Yer Poison on November 12, 2010, 17:09:21
An asteroid containing precious minerals. You can put industrial mining robots as enemies. :3
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Aptequar on November 12, 2010, 22:53:08
I've always imagined some Roger Dean-inspired artwork in a Nifflas game working really well. Although of course with pixel art/photographs not oil paints.

(http://www.linesandcolors.com/images/2006-05/dean_450.jpg)
(http://gantdaily.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-o-matic/cache/fd12c_Roger_Dean___floating_islands.jpg)

The floating islands would certainly make for interesting platforming.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Comhon on November 13, 2010, 12:56:01
An asteroid containing precious minerals. You can put industrial mining robots as enemies. :3
or there could be big wrecked spaceship.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Mathexpert on November 14, 2010, 00:01:33
how about outer space?
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Feline Monstrosity on November 16, 2010, 13:47:31
An area that's really windy, possibly a wide rolling plain or something. But I want to see everything affected by the wind, i.e. no tall-growing plants (they are all slanted) and of course all the grass and plants would be animated. You could even feature some windmills.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: PONTO on November 17, 2010, 11:57:58
My favourite atmospheres from Nifflas are the nightly ones with that nostalgic tone, like the forests from WaDF and mas2 and the beginning of FiNCK. (By the way, horray for NightSky on PC ;)) I guess some of these are certainly going to be included.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: GrayFace on November 19, 2010, 09:56:15
Also, since it's hard to describe settings other than the regular ones that appear in real life often (desert, forest, cave with magically glowing crystals) feel free to link to online pictures that looks like something inspiring!
Speaking of cave with crystals:
http://www.crystalearthworks.net/images/Purple%20ones.jpg
http://www.canyonsworldwide.com/crystals/pictures/Crystal%20Cave%20of%20the%20Giants/images/bluecrystal.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/10/28/article-1081072-02464596000005DC-280_636x944.jpg
http://fineartamerica.com/images-medium/1-crystal-cave-maria-bonnier-perez.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47136000/jpg/_47136218_alejandro_macias_cproduccio.jpg

And some more random pics:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_sRqPE0bPpCg/TMxIgHAPHMI/AAAAAAAABZc/wOC0P_icCFw/s1600/dreamland.jpg
http://www.adrianphotos.com/blog/index.php/2008/04/bali-the-heaven-ii/
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3079/2634917446_9cd55050d3.jpg
http://download.cnet.com/i/tim//2009/08/09/3213e16b62800a0f8beb1e0fc9bfcc3d34e6_1jeenie111176304516_540x432.jpg
http://witnessindonesia.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/dream-land.jpg
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on November 19, 2010, 11:25:45
Ooh, some great inspiration there!

And about the crystal cave, it's on #9 on a list of RPG cliché's (http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html). Of course, that doesn't mean I'm not going to do it, the game positively needs a crystal cave like many of my earlier creations. In fact, I'll probably do most of the other listed cliché's too C)p
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: LPChip on November 19, 2010, 12:19:51
Ooh, some great inspiration there!

And about the crystal cave, it's on #9 on a list of RPG cliché's (http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html). Of course, that doesn't mean I'm not going to do it, the game positively needs a crystal cave like many of my earlier creations. In fact, I'll probably do most of the other listed cliché's too C)p

Actually, that would mean that you're also planning to make the others in the list. X) Neat!!!
Quote
#9. The Compulsories
There's always a fire dungeon, an ice dungeon, a sewer maze, a misty forest, a derelict ghost ship, a mine, a glowing crystal maze, an ancient temple full of traps, a magic floating castle, and a technological dungeon.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on November 19, 2010, 13:17:16
Yeah, that list isn't even limited to RPG's really, they tend to reappear in many games. I'd definitely enjoy doing a sunken ship location.

Here's a list of what I have now, and you'll probably recognize a few themes from quite a few of my earlier games:

* Misty forest
* Mushroom forest
* Temple ruins
* Glowy flowery place
* Lava cave
* Generic everyday cave
* [Secret, won't tell]

That is, I've started out creating those areas and got the theme graphics (tilesets, background scenery) partially done.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Pick Yer Poison on November 19, 2010, 13:56:04
http://en.mystlore.com/wiki/Spire (http://en.mystlore.com/wiki/Spire)

This is one of my favorite Myst ages. It essentially boils down to a floating hunk of crystal rock, with smaller bits around it. Does that sound appealing?
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Gorfinhofin on November 19, 2010, 15:34:13
Ooh, some great inspiration there!

And about the crystal cave, it's on #9 on a list of RPG cliché's (http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html). Of course, that doesn't mean I'm not going to do it, the game positively needs a crystal cave like many of my earlier creations. In fact, I'll probably do most of the other listed cliché's too C)p
How about, uh... some of the... unlisted Clichés, eh? If you know what I mean :shifty:
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Miss Paula on November 19, 2010, 15:52:09
a swamp perhaps? or what about an object unusual size proportion. Like, knytt finds himself in a typewriter. Heh, random idea. X)
hmm. have I mentioned the sand turtles yet? :crazy:
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Yonowaaru on November 19, 2010, 16:26:08
Hmm.. Perhaps a cloudy place? Or maybe even heaven-like?
(I was gonna recommend a sewer/city place, but I guess that's too much of a cliché?)
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: PONTO on November 19, 2010, 17:01:44
(I was gonna recommend a sewer/city place, but I guess that's too much of a cliché?)
Well, the urban levels from the abandoned WaDF2 looked great and I don't think Nifflas has made many environments like those.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: minmay on November 19, 2010, 19:54:44
http://en.mystlore.com/wiki/Spire (http://en.mystlore.com/wiki/Spire)

This is one of my favorite Myst ages. It essentially boils down to a floating hunk of crystal rock, with smaller bits around it. Does that sound appealing?
Now you've done it.  The next fifty suggestions are going to be pulled straight from Myst.

(though something like the channelwood age would be cool, with the trees sticking out of the water and-*gets shot in the head*)
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Feline Monstrosity on November 20, 2010, 00:12:50
If you haven't already, watch Planet Earth, the BBC documentary. They film in some truly stunning locations and it could be a great inspiration.

Relevant to the crystal cave idea, one of the most awe-inspiring locations they film is the legendary Lechuguilla Cave:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Lechuguilla_Chandelier_Ballroom.jpg
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on November 20, 2010, 11:06:53
I definitely want to see Planet Earth, I've seen footage from it, looks awesome!
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: AClockworkLemon on November 20, 2010, 13:09:55
Now you've done it.  The next fifty suggestions are going to be pulled straight from Myst.

(though something like the channelwood age would be cool, with the trees sticking out of the water and-*gets shot in the head*)

Probably not a bad thing. Seriously, some of MYST's environments are EPIC!

I too vote for a spire area. (its my fav as well :^^:)
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Pie_Sniper on November 21, 2010, 18:32:59
It would be really cool to see an area like the Plitvice Lakes in Croatia. You can see some pictures here: http://twistedsifter.com/2009/12/plitvice-lakes-national-park-croatia/
I agree with Feline Monstrosity, too. I just watched the cave episode about a week ago; it was amazing.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on November 21, 2010, 19:36:54
OOoooooh, that's inspirational. I'd love to do that, the only tricky thing is the green'ish water from a 2D perspective since it's viewed from the side. I got to come up with a good way to do that too.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Aptequar on November 22, 2010, 19:21:49
Another fantastical sight from the real world: Meteora in Greece.

(http://blog.ratestogo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/meteora-monastery.jpg)
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: PONTO on November 22, 2010, 19:35:44
I stumbled upon this yesterday and figured some of the pictures might be inspirational, especially in terms of coloring.
http://smashingpicture.com/nature-photography-joni-niemela/

EDIT: And another set: http://www.outdoor-photos.com/
EDIT2: I just noticed the photos on this site go on and on. That should be plenty of inspiration, Niff. ;)
EDIT3: I keep stumbling upon more: http://photographycn.info/41-examples-of-most-beautiful-nature-photograph/
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on November 22, 2010, 23:04:00
Oooh, fantastic :D
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: StraightFlame on November 23, 2010, 21:42:12
And now for another ridiculous idea that will not make sense at all.

It's... *drumroll* ...some kinda swimming pool with trees and plants everywhere giving you barely enough space to walk, and the place is complicated as hell so you have a hard time finding the goal. And it's in some kinda glass dome.

*awkward silence* ...something like this (http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad64/bverwaal/elveden-1.jpg). I know it's ridiculous, you don't have to tell me.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: ieatatsonic on November 28, 2010, 22:13:20
How bout a small planet-like area that loops, and you have to do something to get out? Or an island in the sky that you have to do something tricky to get to? Or a waterfall cave (a cliche, honestly)?
I think I'd like to see a glass tunnel, or a reef, or a ruin that is surrounded by water/partially submerged and is more platforming than traps or puzzles. Thos last few are ones that would be cool to see.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: minmay on November 29, 2010, 03:46:58
An extremely hot environment like a volcano, but filled with plants that have adapted to the heat.  In games and movies, when you see lava you know you're in for a bunch of boring rocks and few life forms; I think it would be good to defy that particular cliche.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Feline Monstrosity on November 29, 2010, 12:56:49
And you could have some neat heat ripple effects like in Super Metroid! :D
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on November 29, 2010, 23:27:28
An extremely hot environment like a volcano, but filled with plants that have adapted to the heat.  In games and movies, when you see lava you know you're in for a bunch of boring rocks and few life forms; I think it would be good to defy that particular cliche.
Actually, that's an interesting idea! I should remember that one!
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: steynj on December 12, 2010, 01:13:35
http://www.beautifullife.info/graphic-design/artist-daniel-dociu/

'Nuff said.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Miss Paula on December 12, 2010, 14:22:43
oh awesome :shocked:
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on December 12, 2010, 14:31:20
Yeah, I can definitely find some inspiration there.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Gumbosplat on December 12, 2010, 14:43:54
probably a really wierd one, but inside a whale.

yeah...
There could be an underwater level if the swim powerup makes it, and you could be eaten by a whale in the level, leading to another level. :P
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: steynj on December 13, 2010, 02:30:38
If you don't use Skybridge I will eat you.  :crazy:
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: LPChip on December 13, 2010, 16:38:35
If you don't use Skybridge I will eat you.  :crazy:
If you eat Nifflas, I will ban you. Personally ;) :P
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: StraightFlame on December 13, 2010, 19:06:46
If you don't use Skybridge I will eat you.  :crazy:
If you eat Nifflas, I will ban you. Personally ;) :P
If you ban steynj i will keylogger-ify you.  :nuts: >) :ohnoes: :crazy: X-P :( :ohnoes: :whoa: 8D
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Miss Paula on December 13, 2010, 21:19:32
ha ha funny

and now back to topic please. :|
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: heartskuppy on December 15, 2010, 01:32:33
http://www.beautifullife.info/graphic-design/artist-daniel-dociu/

'Nuff said.

:o
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: TheDarkOne on January 03, 2011, 05:33:06
How about a dark clock tower?
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Miss Paula on January 03, 2011, 20:30:09
dunno if stuff like this (http://i.imgur.com/YVpvc.jpg) works as inspiration, it's apparently from a painter called "Eyvind Earle" (http://www.google.de/images?q=%22Eyvind+Earle%22).
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: J on January 29, 2011, 14:24:14
Maybe you could also draw inspiration from  the world's largest cave passage (http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/01/largest-cave/peter-photography) too. :P2
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: StraightFlame on February 01, 2011, 18:32:48
Maybe a Saira-graphics'd version of the tutorial area from WaDF as the starting point?
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: psicolico on February 04, 2011, 01:36:40
How about inside a giant creature? It can still be magical and surrealistic.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: sergiocornaga on February 08, 2011, 00:04:59
How about inside a giant creature? It can still be magical and surrealistic.

I love it when platformer levels take place inside giant creatures! Ultimate Ghosts 'n' Goblins has a level that combines this look with the sewer level look (http://imagenes.sftcdn.net/ongames/scrn/2000/2564/ultimate-ghosts-and-goblins-psp-13149.jpg), another old favourite of mine. Of course, in that game it's more 'disgusting' than 'magical'...
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: dave.germain on February 08, 2011, 19:16:14
Giant creatures are always cool settings. I'm imagining the great fun I had climbing giant creatures in Shadow of Colossus...Then you could climb into his ear or something...

Either way, I'm just hyped that a new Nifflas level editor is on it's way.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on February 08, 2011, 23:45:33
Hmmm, I got to consider that "inside a creature" thing. As the game world is seamless, it needs to make sense somehow that there's a creature which you can enter by some strange reason. It can't be like in WaDF where That Hover Thing is much bigger on the inside than the outside, because the game doesn't support that.

I guess I did that once in WaDF but I need to figure out a way for it to make sense in this world, since that large creature won't be able to move around.

...or perhaps it'll sort of be like some strange amoeba like creature that have consumed a cave in the game world or something.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Miss Paula on February 09, 2011, 00:00:10
well, couldn't it be like in seiklus, that you only can access the "outside" of the creature partly, because it's at some corner or cul-de-sac of the game world, and can enter it then and explore the big(ger than outside-ly viewable) inside. maybe that's actually kind of like you mean it there. :P
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on February 09, 2011, 00:09:46
Ah, sorry, that doesn't work since the entire game is one continous location.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: jetio4 on February 09, 2011, 18:39:05
Perhaps the creature is dead, and stuck under the earth... you find a cave that eventually leads into the creature's mouth without realizing it.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on February 09, 2011, 23:13:48
Fun facts, the world is now as big as the Knytt world in room count. Due to the different aspect ratio, the world in tiles is 1.6 times larger than Knytt. Taking the higher resolution in account too, the game world should be about 4.55 times larger in pixel count. I estimate that me and Agneta Åkerlund (http://www.artistaa.com) have designed a third of the world (but perhaps if things work out really well, perhaps we can try for even larger). I've set my daily quota to 10 rooms a day.

In the end, I expect more than half of the development time of KnyttWaDF will only be designing the locations. The work on this game doesn't conflict with The Great Work by the way, which is almost done by now but is on hold since it should be released with the documentary and not before.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Widget on February 10, 2011, 17:39:48
Good grief, it sounds like it's going to be absolutely vast  :D
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on February 10, 2011, 19:30:57
It'll hopefully be my largest single continuous game world :)
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Grookie on February 11, 2011, 07:19:09
And what about a something psychedelic (glowing sky, glowing mushrooms, moving grass, ...)
Something like Shivering Isles in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion!
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

There are some more psychedelic regions, but it is hard to find a good screenshot...
I think that it will be best to watch some let's play.  :/
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Grookie on February 20, 2011, 11:22:56
Uh-Oh and what about some barrier reef?
But not underwater, but something like corals on the ground. You can walk or run between corals, avoiding wells full of water. Somewhere in the ground part of the reef, there could be a swim/dive powerup (if it does exist). Then you can dive into those wells, which make an underwater labyrinth.

Spoiler: Something like this (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Juni on March 13, 2011, 01:07:35
A foggy place with past locations of your other games! like for example, there's this eerie pipe and you enter it, only to be brought to Pinewood Hights and you are stuck in ball form!
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: sergiocornaga on April 04, 2011, 06:12:08
A discothèque, deep underground, populated not by Knytts but by some common background creature encountered previously in the game. Maybe that rock turtle thing? Maybe lots of those, all dancing to music and bright flashing lights? I think that would be pretty great.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on April 04, 2011, 10:59:12
Interesting! I like the idea of a disco... or perhaps like a concert with a scene where a band plays.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Salmoneous on April 04, 2011, 12:06:48
that would be a great secret. crazy critters dancing to music. unexpected and funny.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on April 04, 2011, 13:00:51
If I'll add it depends on if I can get CT to add the feature to synchronize audio tracks in MMF2. I need either that or a low-pass filter, so that when you get further away from the concert you can still hear the sound but quite muddy. Without that effect, it'll never be able to sound cool.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Miss Paula on April 04, 2011, 13:48:36
*faints in the face of that idea's awesomness*
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: LPChip on April 04, 2011, 14:15:30
I suppose, the most time is in loading the tracks.

Can't you first load the tracks, then set both their position to 0 and then start playing? Or is even then a delay?
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on April 04, 2011, 16:45:10
The problem is that the events that triggers the "set sample position" action as well as the "play sample" action are not triggered in the audio thread, which means there can be a small delay between when each actions triggers. If MMF2 was designed, sound related actions wouldn't trigger by an action, but remembered until the end of the current frame, so that they could all be triggered by the audio thread itself with sample accuracy.

At the other hand, even without sample accuracy, perhaps it's close enough to just set the sample position to 0 once all the samples are cached. I'll make some tests.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: sergiocornaga on April 05, 2011, 12:23:39
Do you have any screen shaking effects or similar implemented? It might be neat if the screen shook in time with the bass if you stand too close to the speakers, or something along those lines.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on April 05, 2011, 12:46:51
I don't think I'll implement that. It's too much work for a small thing. I have something else in mind that'll be really cool tho!
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: sergiocornaga on April 05, 2011, 14:44:07
Your call! Couldn't decide if that idea was neat or just annoying, so that's probably for the best.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: mato on April 06, 2011, 04:43:59
Regarding the low pass filter you could try faking it by making two versions of the song and then cross-fade between them depending on the distance.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on April 06, 2011, 10:44:29
Yes, which is where the problem synchronizing several audio tracks comes in. However, it seems like I'm getting good enough results, though it's not sample accurate.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: LPChip on April 06, 2011, 12:44:29
If you start the song from close by before the song from far away (with low pas filter), you might actually add a bit of realism, because sound travels further and thus gets to you at a later stage.

Its questionable if there will be any chorus due to duplicate sounds clashing.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on April 06, 2011, 15:57:22
Well, that's what I fear basically, a small delay causing phase offset problems. The problem is also that I don't know how different the delay will be depending on hardware (soundcard, cpu). I'm probably going to create a test tool that people can try on their computers which will tell me how much desynchronization every new musical layer will add on the system it's tested on. If the results are bad on some systems, I won't add the feature.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: LPChip on April 06, 2011, 18:28:08
I have a high end system and a low end. I can help you test it on either to tell you how big the difference is. That should give you some comparison. If the difference is neglectable, you shouldn't have to worry that much.

I bet that any delays on the sound due to hardware will happen on both audio streams at the same time and speed, so by setting both positions to 0 should give the same delay on every system, depending on the length of the song. (I bet that a longer song will have a larger footprint thus making setting it to 0 a slightly longer task)
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: Nifflas on April 07, 2011, 00:44:08
Quote
I bet that any delays on the sound due to hardware will happen on both audio streams at the same time and speed, so by setting both positions to 0 should give the same delay on every system, depending on the length of the song.
Of course the playback speed will remain constant, but since the audio position resets are triggered from a separate thread, and not simultanely, I'm sure the delay is not a constant, since the game speed itself isn't. In fact, in all my games I have to compensate for a MMF2 design mistake, which directly involves a delay between multiple sound actions, that varies per system and CPU usage, and is very closely related to this (though it's about modifying the volume of a sound). Luckily, I know a workaround for that.

However, I'm positive that the delay isn't constant. Seriously, I don't make that kind of mistakes, I know MMF2 inside and out.
Title: Re: Locations?
Post by: LPChip on April 07, 2011, 09:36:42
I didn't want to offend you. :)

I was just brainstorming I guess.

But I'll look forward to test this for you as soon as you have a testing method ready.