Nifflas' Support Forum

Being Creative => Nifflas' Sources => Topic started by: egomassive on September 19, 2010, 11:33:38

Title: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 19, 2010, 11:33:38
I'm rebooting this topic since I have become positive that this mod will see completion. The opening post is preserved below in spoiler tags. New discussion starts on page 4. And so, I present to the community:

KS+ Download it at egomassive.com/ks (http://egomassive.com/ks)

Spoiler: Main Features (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Additional Features (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Level Editor Info (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: To do (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Known Bugs (click to show/hide)

The game download contains a folder that needs to be merged with your existing Knytt Stories folder. It also contains a readme and an instructions text that details how to make Override Custom Objects and all the new script instructions.

Some technical things to note: This mod makes changes to save files and the settings.ini. These changes will not affect the functionality of other versions of Knytt Stories, but they will remain if you delete this program. There are also new object images added to the Data/Objects folders for level editing.

Spoiler: Updates (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Original Opening Post (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: LPChip on September 19, 2010, 12:51:08
This looks very nice! :)

Thanks for putting in the research. Do you need a custom version of Knytt Stories, or does it work with the standard 1.1.2?
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: Miss Paula on September 19, 2010, 13:00:28
non-fullscreen video link (http://de.tinypic.com/player.php?v=2laq4pw&s=7) yay X)
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: Firecat on September 19, 2010, 21:57:40
I frown upon your usage of tinypic for videos.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: egomassive on September 19, 2010, 22:55:08
@LPChip: It does require a modified version of Knytt Stories. I let the Custom Objects load as they do in 1.2.1, then give new instructions to them later. The levels would load with 1.2.1 but the special enemies wouldn't appear. The first tile of each sprite sheet is blank for just this reason.

Level editing is unaffected by the changes I've made. The existing editors will work fine.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: Ultigonio on September 21, 2010, 06:55:21
Wow, this is completely and totally awesome.  Nice work so far,  I can't wait to see what else you plan to implement.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: egomassive on September 22, 2010, 05:20:21
I have lots of ideas, but I'm not sure how many I'll pursue. One issue, I don't want to move away from the feel of Knytt Stories. (e.g. Is swimming appropriate?) Another issue, I don't want to hamper performance. A map that only revealed explored screens would make save files huge. Some things would require huge code additions that would slow the performance.

The biggest issue is I don't like MMF2 at all. There's no way I'm going to buy it. I had fun figuring out how to import graphics onto Active Objects. I felt like I had conquered a huge obstacle. But, It escapes me why they made it so hard to accomplish in the first place. So, I have to ask myself if there's any point in expending more effort into a project with an unknown future.

I do still plan to investigate custom Shift sounds and placing tiles in the foreground. No promises though.

Edit: I figured out custom shift sounds. See the fabricated screen shot below. This is in the "Magic" behavior of the "0:x Dimension Shift" object. The snippet in the lower right is an example entry from a World.ini. It's written so that the standard door, switch, and electronic sounds can be overridden by having a file named door.ogg, switch.ogg, or electronic.ogg in a Sounds folder within the level's folder. Any name can be used, but other names aren't compatible with the 3rd Party Tools.

Another Edit: Shifts can now change Juni's skin and clothing colors. I also changed the way skin color changes are made to preserve the two-tones when possible. The hologram changes accordingly. To control it you can use the World.ini for the initial color combination the way you can now. To change her appearance at anytime use the entries:
ShiftSkin(A)=#
ShiftClothes(A)=#
Where A can be A, B, or C and # is a color using the formula (Blue)2562+(Green)256+Red Where Blue, Green, and Red are on a 0 to 255 decimal scale. It's the same formula used to represent colors in the World.ini now.

Since this uses color replacement it can be abused. For instance, set Juni's clothes to 0, transparent. Now, change them to any other color. All the transparent areas will fill with that color revealing the 24 by 24 pixel box she lives in.

By the way, I scrapped the tiles in front idea. It was a performance hog.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: egomassive on September 25, 2010, 06:45:38
Sorry for the double post, but that last reply was getting a little long. I'm looking into reducing screen flash by reducing the need to switch between identical screens. One major culprit is extended dialogues where the player needs to push down to read more. This typically involves shifting to a new screen containing a new sign.

So, I have now devised advanced signs. It's the same sign you're used to but now it has additional functionality. By declaring more messages for the same sign object; A, B, or C; the player can advance through them simply by pressing down. The player must release the key before he can advance the text again. Also, if the player leaves the sign/sign-area the dialogue will reset. There is no limit to how many messages one sign can contain. If another message exists a discrete arrow shows at the bottom of the text box. If there is only one message or you are at the last message, then the traditional text box appears.

One further feature is if a second message exists but the first one does not, then the message window does not appear until after down has been pressed once. I think this would be useful on locked doors, where if a player tries to enter a message saying, "it's locked," appears.

New problems occur when multiple Signs of the same ID are used together instead of using Sign-Areas. The text but not the text box will appear for the first frame, and the text window with the arrow will show on the last message. These issues only appear if multiple messages are declared, so older levels will behave no different than they do now.

Under the hood, it's mostly done with changes in the 0:x Sign's behavior. 0:x Sign has been given a few more alterable values/strings. Plus, the Sign Background object has an extra frame of animation, the text box with an arrow.

I'm not sure if I like my arrow design on the text box. If someone has a better idea, I'd like to know.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: Ultigonio on September 25, 2010, 08:17:24
Quote from: egomassive
Shifts can now change Juni's skin and clothing colors.
I love you forever, but that's aside the point.

As for the arrow on the text boxes, how about raising the arrow and putting it in the right corner (or possibly left)?
EDIT: Is it at all possible to put the arrow outside the box?
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: egomassive on September 25, 2010, 11:32:13
^: I can put the arrow anywhere I want. I could even animate it. I'm leaning towards the lower-right myself. As is, it can interfere with text that exceeds 4 lines. It should be noticeable, but not obtrusive in my opinion.

Edit: I've now added surface water and waterfalls. While making the surface water I decided to add the ability to make any dangerous "Override" objects safe. In the world.ini:
Hurts=False
I rewrote the way Override objects are handled too. The way it was before worked fine, but I felt like it shouldn't.

On a side note, I read the threads for the KSA and ACO mods. Both projects appear to be buggy and dead. In this light, I'm considering turning this work into an actual mod project. It will depend mostly on getting my hands on a copy of MMF2 for cheap.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: Pick Yer Poison on September 27, 2010, 17:34:34
Wow, I never actually expected anything like this to happen. I'm impressed, egomassive; you have my support. :)
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: JC Grim the 'crete reaper on September 27, 2010, 19:21:43
This is rather impressive...
I'm always intrigued when people make mods for KS, and yours sounds rather clean and proper so far.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: egomassive on September 29, 2010, 11:40:59
Newest development: Triggers

A Trigger is like a Shift, but it's main function is to spawn an object somewhere on screen. It can make any object from Meanies to Shifts, even Custom Objects. Triggers are similar to Shifts in many way. The default appearance is that of the spot Shift only tinted red. The other standard Shift shapes are also available. The Trigger can be made invisible. It can activate on touch. It makes the default Shift sound, but this can be changed like the Shift including the ability to add your own sound --something I add to the Shift object earlier. The Shift effect now appears at the location of the object you spawn, but can be disabled. It can be made to ignore Juni if the hologram is active.

Unlike Shifts, Triggers can't move Juni, save the game, set Flags/Power-ups, or change Juni's colors --something I added to the Shift earlier. It also differs in that it can only be activated once. This is to prevent infinite spawning.

Spoiler: ini instructions (click to show/hide)

The purpose of this is to make the game run more smoothly. This could be done simply by shifting to a duplicate screen with the new object present. Switching screens like that isn't all that convincing, the Objects all reset and blink-out for a moment. With Triggers the state of the screen is preserved when new objects are made to appear. That said, Triggers do have their limitations. Currently, you can only place 3 new objects on screen at once. Also, The new objects appear on top of everything else regardless of which layer the Trigger was on. I'm working to remedy the latter fault.

I plan to make another video of all the new additions right before my MMF2 demo runs out, which is about two weeks. Also, thanks to those who've shown interest in this. I want to make this mod, but I'm not thrilled at all about buying MMF2 to do it.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: LPChip on September 29, 2010, 14:16:57
Although this trigger looks nice, wasn't the idea of shifts to do just this by moving juni to an identical screen?
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: AClockworkLemon on September 29, 2010, 23:06:52
Yes, sortof, but as ego said, the screen blinks whenever you shift, making item spawning look a abit weird. I like the idea!  C)p
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: Purple Pineapple on September 30, 2010, 01:36:20
Yay, more KS mods!
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: egomassive on September 30, 2010, 04:21:55
@ LPChip: Some of the additions I've made are only to improve the way we already use KS. My main issue with Shifting between identical rooms is animated objects reset. Currently it's best to avoid using animated objects on such screens, but the little animations are a big part of KS's charm. Triggers will allow designers to add something to playing field while maintaining the condition of all the water, decorations, meanies, projectiles, etc.

Triggers now spawn objects at the same z-depth. I put a "Marker" object off-screen. When a Trigger activates the Markers z-depth is set to the Trigger's z-depth. Then, the spawn is set to the Marker's z-depth. This works because there is only one marker. For those who don't know, MMF2 uses pointers liberally. That's fine, but trying to find a specific instance of an object is a pain. Maybe there's an easy way I don't know yet. I only picked it up 2 weeks ago.

There's an issue where multiple Triggers of the same ID break the spawn location. I'd like designers to be able to use a wall of Triggers the same way they use a wall of Shifts. I'll be looking into this.

@ Purple Pineapple: The ability to make override COs harmless is partly inspired by your Angel object. I also hope to implement something like your slider bar in level selection.

I made my first change to the original functionality of 1.2.1. For Shifts set to save on touch, I deactivate the save ability after the first touch. (Inspired by ACO's save on warp function.) It's to prevent continuous saving when "auto-saving" is used. I understand this is a big performance issue when running KS from flash drives. If anyone can think of a reason this shouldn't be a default behavior or know of an existing level this would break, please let me know.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: Purple Pineapple on September 30, 2010, 06:38:55
@ Purple Pineapple: The ability to make override COs harmless is partly inspired by your Angel object. I also hope to implement something like your slider bar in level selection.
:awsum:

If anyone can think of a reason this shouldn't be a default behavior or know of an existing level this would break, please let me know.
Depends on whether or not two of the same type of shift on the same screen don't auto save, or whether it only blocks double saving whilst triggering the exact same shift.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: egomassive on September 30, 2010, 13:02:56
^: The Shifts are changed individually. I had to do some fancy programming to get sets of Triggers to act as one. It's much easier to treat objects separately (from within their behaviors that is.) But, you made me think of a scenario that could be an issue.

My adjustment would prevent the second save. I'll change it to save once while overlapping Juni. If she leaves the Shift area and comes back, then it will save again. I'm already doing something similar with the advanced Signs, so it shouldn't be too hard.

Update, I added more functionality to the Triggers. By default a group of Triggers with the same ID; A, B, or C; will act one time. This can simulate using a wall of Shifts. Deactivate this feature with: TrigAsOne(A)=False. When declared the same object will be spawned for each Trigger separately. Originally they all would have spawned in the same location, but now you can have Objects spawn  relative to the Trigger by declaring: TrigAbsoluteTarget(A)=False. Unlike with Shift, absolute targeting is true by default.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: sergiocornaga on September 30, 2010, 18:40:42
I was recently thinking of making a level devoid of actual savepoints (so I guess it would use shift saving entirely) meaning that change sounds a little problematic to me. Is it, or am I worrying over nothing?
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: egomassive on October 01, 2010, 06:23:47
^: "None" is still a choice for Shift sounds. In fact you could make levels with my mod exactly as you make them now without noticing any difference in design or play. The only thing I've changed from the original is how Shift auto-saving on touch is executed. I've eliminated excessive saving which should reduce lag experienced by flash drive users. Users playing from a hard drive probably won't notice the improvement.

On that subject, I altered my restriction on touch-auto-saving to once per touch. Before it was first touch only.

Edit: According to the agreement with the Knytt source, I will have to get permission from Nifflas before I can include this next modification. I made the playable character from Knytt a playable character in this mod. Just add Character=Knytt to the World.ini. The hologram still shows Juni. That should be an easy fix. I want to implement color changing, but I'm not sure what to do about the pink in his cheeks. The pink may cause some strange results if I calculate it's difference from his skin. The animations are ripped directly from Knytt, but he moves like Juni. The only place this seems to be a problem is with walking. He looks too fast. I altered it a bit, but I think it needs more tweaking. I'll leave it for now.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: Whistler on October 01, 2010, 13:40:45
I could really use triggers in my KS level. To see what I mean click the link in my signature.
Another idea in "Timers". They can move objects (like shifts) around the screen after a certain period of time.
Another idea is moving platforms. They, well, you know, move up and down and side to side.
Ok, I'm done.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: egomassive on October 01, 2010, 21:00:53
^: Timers I've been considering. I could add a delay to Shifts and Triggers maybe. I'm not sure how much use they'd be.
Moving platforms are a staple of side-scrollers. However, KS was not designed for them. I'd probably have to rewrite the entire movement engine. There are so many factors to consider. If Juni's crushed by a platform does she die? And, how do I determine if she's been crushed while allowing legacy wall-swims? If the platform is moving left and she's running left can she exceed her max velocity? What should platforms look like? Constant velocity or elliptical? I'll probably look into it, but I really doubt it'll make it into the mod.

Update: The Knytt character can change colors now, but I'm not satisfied with the inner workings. Like Juni's two tone skin, I'm calculating the Knytt's two facial colors based on the body color. Basically I add or subtract the difference. I have checks in place to ensure nonsense numbers don't result, those below 0 or above 2563. The problem is if you have a color like orange, RGB(255, 127, 0), and I add a little gray, RGB(20,20,20), to lighten it then The result is green, RGB(19, 148, 20). To check for scenarios like this will require a lot more math, more code, and possibly storing more values. Or, I could leave it up to level designers to determine appropriate colors through trial and error.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: sergiocornaga on October 02, 2010, 09:59:55
Is it possible to make the colour in Juni's hair changeable too? I have often wanted to make it completely black, and I'm sure others have too.

Also, I was thinking about your advanced signs. What if I need a shift at some point in the midst of the messages, for example to show some sort of visual change? It would be helpful to be able to trigger a shift (after the last message of a sign, I think), or to trigger one of your newly added 'triggers'. I think the arrow you've added to the message box should appear on this last message if it precedes a shift. Hopefully this is possible!

Somewhat similar to my prior suggestion, I'd also like the ability to append the arrow onto a normal sign. That way, signs that are placed on the same tiles as shifts or 'triggers' won't be visually different from the advanced signs, which behave in superficially the same way. This would also be good because it clears up an issue I've had with many Knytt Stories levels: not knowing which messages indicate the possibility of interaction.

The ability to make Juni invisible/visible after a shift would also be helpful, it would save the trouble of having to hide her behind a custom object.

Here end my requests/suggestions... I think they are in line with what you are trying to achieve with this project, but feel free to disagree.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: egomassive on October 02, 2010, 13:47:48
^: That's an interesting idea about the sign. Conversations do often end in an event, but I'm trying to keep things simple for level designers. If there's only one message and then a shift, Just put them on the same tile. To get an arrow on the first message make a second. The player wont see the second message because they'll shift when they press down.
Example:Sign(A)=This looks suspicious.
Sign2(A)=Write anything here. It wont be seen.
ShiftYMap(A)=1
ShiftVisible(A)=False

There's a special object on my to do list. It's purpose is to allow an on screen animation of Juni. I envision shifting Juni into the object's location. At which point she is made invisible, a CO is spawned, and a timer starts. When the timer ends, Juni is shifted back to the screen or a different one. Programing it will require the commands needed for shifting, spawning the animation, and timing the event. The advantages over the current method would be reduced object flash, precision timing, and no Juni briefly appearing in the wall. I still haven't messed with timed events yet, so don't get your hopes up.

Currently I'm working on the Knytt hologram. It wont look left even though it's programed exactly like Juni's hologram. Frustrating! I was going to make a screen shot of the issue when I figured out how to order actions within an event. I had no idea how MMF2 decided which order to execute actions for different objects in a single event until now. It's simply the order they're declared, which isn't visible in the Event Editor. You have to open the Event List Editor. Frustrating!


Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: Ultigonio on October 03, 2010, 09:02:05
Actually, I had one suggestion which may or may not be very easy to put in.
What about an object that you can place which restores your double jump?  This would go along with an old idea of mine.  It could be interesting (or just very silly).

EDIT:  In case you still aren't pleased with your arrow design, here's my suggestion for the orientation and look for the arrow on the multi-message boxes.  Animation should probably either be down 1 up 1 or down 2 up 2, and it really shouldn't go very fast at all.  Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprite-sheets for standard objects
Post by: sergiocornaga on October 03, 2010, 12:14:35
If there's only one message and then a shift, Just put them on the same tile. To get an arrow on the first message make a second. The player wont see the second message because they'll shift when they press down.

This is quite a brilliant idea. Although, am I correct in understand that you have no current plans to make it possible to shift upon pressing down on the last message in a series of advanced signs?

Your special object sounds interesting, but there are some things I don't understand. Does the CO spawn in the same spot as the object, or do you specify where? If it's the latter, it has occurred to me that if you gave a CO a really strange offset, you could make Juni shift to a different location than where the CO appears to be. The idea of the math involved annoys me, but it would be possible... so either way could work, I guess.

I still think it could be useful if shifts could alter Juni's visibilty as it opens up possibilities for interactive, shift-based animations outside of the side-on, KS visual style... ones that are devoid of a flashing Juni.

Also, since KS message text is fixed width, an arrow inside the box should be possible if you want to go in that direction. See attached.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: egomassive on October 04, 2010, 07:43:53
Spoiler: Lengthy Update (click to show/hide)

Edit: I forgot to address some questions.

@ Sergiocornaga: Changing the stripe in Juni's hair is definitely possible. I'm not sure how much of an asset it would be. Like I mentioned in the lengthy update, color changing adds bulk. How much bulk is too much? In black and white levels the blue highlights can be the only shed of color, but it's not that noticeable really.

@ Ultigonio: Infinite double jumping falls under what I consider "inappropriate" for KS. It's just too powerful and it makes no sense whatsoever (not that double jumping makes sense in the first place.) It wouldn't look like flying or swimming or any other rationale I can think of. But, as I'm writing this response I'm realizing infinite double jumping would make a really awesome cheat mode. Huh. I guess this is going on the to-do list.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: sergiocornaga on October 04, 2010, 11:33:52
@ Sergiocornaga: The default behavior of a Trigger is to spawn an object at the 0:0 screen tile position. You declare TrigSpawnX(A) and TrigSpawnY(A) to pick a new location. If you declare TrigAbsoluteTraget(A)=False, then TrigSpawnX(A) and TrigSpawnY(A) indicate how many tiles from Trigger(A) to position the new object. The only offset commands you can declare are TrigEffectX(A) and TrigEffectY(A). These can move the spawn effect (same as shift effect) for creatures larger than 24x24 pixels.

I was more asking about the special object on your to-do list allowing animation of Juni, but since they would probably work in about the same way I feel my questions are answered.

@ Sergiocornaga: Changing the stripe in Juni's hair is definitely possible. I'm not sure how much of an asset it would be. Like I mentioned in the lengthy update, color changing adds bulk. How much bulk is too much? In black and white levels the blue highlights can be the only shed of color, but it's not that noticeable really.

You're right, it's probably trivial.

This mod seems fantastic. I'd like to see it become an official Knytt Stories update for some weird reason...
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: egomassive on October 04, 2010, 14:38:00
^: Oh. It seems obvious you were asking about the "special" object when I re-read your comment. I should come up with a name. Anyhow, on further thought about the Special object I decided not to include Trigger elements. It will act as a timed Shift, a Sticky, a No Climb, and a No Jump, and it will make a CO cover unnecessary. In that light I decided it could be used in concert with a Trigger if you wish to create an animation.

Edit: I'm going to be away for a couple days, so I thought I'd leave you with a movie before I go. I made this hastily so the quality is bad, sorry. You will see: safe cyan lava, a trigger in action, color replaced leaves, color shifting, custom shift sounds, advanced signs, the Knytt character doing various moves, Knytt character color shifting, and character shifting.

Mod Video (http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=au8snr&s=7)

I noticed a mistake while making the video. When switching characters with the hologram on, the new character isn't semi-transparent. It's an easy fix.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: sergiocornaga on October 14, 2010, 05:58:27
How goes it? Any new features? Is your MMF2 demo going to run out soon... or perhaps it already has?
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: egomassive on October 14, 2010, 18:18:32
Today is my last day with the MMF2 demo. Since my last update I added custom color support for all of Bank 7 and added external sprite sheet support for a few more Bank 3 objects. I worked on some cheat modes, but I removed them from the source I plan to release because they weren't finished.

I'm currently putting together a source package. I'll need to get permission from Nifflas before releasing it, because it includes the Knytt character and some internal graphics have been put in external sprite sheet templates.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: sergiocornaga on October 15, 2010, 13:09:30
Do you think you could get Nifflas (or someone else) to compile it too?
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: egomassive on October 15, 2010, 18:56:58
I expect the first thing an MMF2 owner will do is compile it. Sharing the build raises ethical issues. There's a reason the demo won't compile projects. Having someone else do it for me is a circumvention. I wouldn't be surprised if it violates the EULA. I intend to release it under the pretext that MMF2 owners can see how I made the changes, so they can replicate them in their own projects.

That said, I think it's a non-issue since I plan to purchase or borrow a full copy of MMF2. I don't mind if someone posts my mod, but it's incomplete. Only 38 of 312 visible objects support custom graphics. There are bound to be bugs, which I can't fix right now.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: Headgrinder on October 16, 2010, 13:59:35
I've tried to be a programmer in the past and failed, so I'm very excited people are interested in improving on the original KS.  So, thank you very much for your work.  :D
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: GrayFace on October 22, 2010, 10:14:56
Today I've also decided to do some modifications to KS. So far going pretty well. MMF2 is working, XLua is up and running and now I'm adding events for it. However, spending $119 (price written on their site for US) on MMF2 would be a waste IMO.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: egomassive on October 23, 2010, 03:23:06
I avoided XLua because I thought it was silly to force MMF2 to use a real language. Programming in a high level language should be an option. I think the reason it isn't an option is to force you to pay the $119 USD to reap any reward from your work. I'm looking for a used copy of MMF2 or even to borrow a copy.

Hmm... I believe rrc2soft rewrote KS in C++ for his KSDS mod. I should contact him and see about unchaining KS modding from the MMF2 entry fee.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: AClockworkLemon on October 23, 2010, 04:16:25
I avoided XLua because I thought it was silly to force MMF2 to use a real language. Programming in a high level language should be an option. I think the reason it isn't an option is to force you to pay the $119 USD to reap any reward from your work. I'm looking for a used copy of MMF2 or even to borrow a copy.

Hmm... I believe rrc2soft rewrote KS in C++ for his KSDS mod. I should contact him and see about unchaining KS modding from the MMF2 entry fee.

Indeed.
C++ isn't the only option. I had a fiddle around, and got a basic idea of KS working in Game Maker. I wouldn't be surpriesd if someone with a bit of flash expertise ( i would give it a go, but im working on something else) could make KS in flash either
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: AA on October 23, 2010, 09:21:46
Hmm... I believe rrc2soft rewrote KS in C++ for his KSDS mod. I should contact him and see about unchaining KS modding from the MMF2 entry fee.
I think it's in plain C, not C++. PAlib doesn't look very port-friendly to me, but I'm not that experienced. I suppose you could get the code for movement and for the various objects from there at the very least, but building a more flexible mod from there could end up being harder than starting from scratch.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: GrayFace on October 24, 2010, 04:25:17
How do you flip the custom objects to the needed direction? I can't find a way to do this with Animated Picture.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: egomassive on October 24, 2010, 23:41:04
After more thought I decided not to remake KS in a different language. If I'm going to do that much coding, it'll be for my own game.

On releasing the code, I haven't heard back from Nifflas on the PM I sent him last week. Will try e-mail.

@ GrayFace: I used the roto-scale feature of Animated Pictures to flip them. You must first set the angle to zero; This only has to be done once per object. Set the scale-X to 1 for normal or -1 for flipped.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: GrayFace on October 26, 2010, 08:14:06
I've tested the "Animation -> Load Frame" action and it seemed to work fine, although it changed graphics of all objects of the same type, not just one as I wanted. Why don't you simply use it to replace standard objects' graphics?
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: egomassive on October 26, 2010, 13:15:15
^: I'm not sure I understand your question. I am using Animated Pictures (AKA: Custom Objects) to "replace" standard object graphics. Is this something XLua can do directly?

If you try to send an instruction to a CO from a "behavior" then the instruction will be sent to every CO on screen. To make it work you'll need to add CO's to a group, I used "friends". Then you'll need to add a unique identifier to each Animated Object/CO pair, I used "friends" count-1. When you pass instructions to COs you need to do it in the Main event area of the "Gameplay" frame. Match identifiers of the animated objects and COs by looping through the "friends" group. There will be 3 conditions on every event in addition to what you're checking for. The following is pseudo-code because I don't remember exactly:
on loop "sync"
Friend.identity = loop "sync".iteration
ActiveObject.identity = loop "sync".iteration

Note: Make sure you pass instructions to COs using the group's column.

Or at least, that's how I got it to work. I'd only been working with MMF2 for 3 days when I figured this part out so it's likely there is a better solution. If there isn't then MMF2 is ridiculous.

Edit: 02August2011: There is a better solution for what I'm describing above. I'm going to put it here for the benefit of future readers. First of all, I was explaining how I got 2 separate objects to interact with each other while not affecting other objects of the same types. It really all comes down to giving the 2 objects the same unique identity. Store this value in them in the same event they are created in. This way it will only be stored in the newly created objects, rather than all objects of the same type. Afterwards, when you want to make an adjustment to one object based on the state of the other. First create a loop that will iterate through the possible IDs. Then create an event that includes filters for the loop itself (On Loop), comparisons between both objects' IDs and the loop value, and whatever conditions you want to act on. What is extremely important here is how you make the comparisons between both objects' IDs and the loop value. The objects must appear as the left conditionals in both comparisons. Right conditionals do not filter the field of similar objects. If you do it correctly, then any actions taken will only affect the two objects in the pair. It even works from within behaviors despite things being passed by reference.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: GrayFace on October 26, 2010, 17:40:51
Yes, there is a way to do object references: http://www.sonicfangameshq.com/forum/showthread.php?p=128888
This still doesn't work very well, because a check condition added after the "pick by fixed value" condition seems to still iterate all objects of the kind and reset the 'pick' thing.
In XLua individual objects are assigned IDs. There are some operations you can do with objects directly (from XLua) - like changing position, cadre number. To add more operations I make functions in MMF in which I also use values comparsion across all objects to pick the one with the right ID.
But what I meant is that there is a straight-forward way to change appearence of an object, just an action from object's menu. Like, you can replace all save points with crocodile pictures. What you can't do this way is replace just one save point if there are two of them on the screen.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: egomassive on October 27, 2010, 01:27:19
Oh I see. I have an idea that may help. You can use internal flags to initialize objects at creation time. For example object 4:9 decides which direction to face based on Juni's entrance position. After each one is created it turns on a flag to prevent the next one that is made from overriding this setting.
Title: Re: Knytt Stories: External sprites for standard objects and other mods
Post by: egomassive on June 05, 2011, 01:46:21
Since I now have access to MMF2 through a friend, I am going to finish making this mod and release it to the public. My access however is suspended for the summer. In that light I have decided to release what I have so far as a beta. I have rewritten the opening post to describe the features and provide a link for download. I will appreciate your opinions and bug reports. Enjoy.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: PeppyHare4000 on June 14, 2011, 04:48:02
What i am going to do is play knytt stories with your mode for the search convienence but i will still
edit with the regular KS until this mod has become popular so people don't complain about installing a mod.

This mod seems to have great potential!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on June 15, 2011, 08:49:41
^: I understand not making levels for it yet. I plan to make my big level, TTok, on my mod which should be a good incentive for installation. Though, even without special levels the improvements to level installation, level selection, and whatnot are good incentives in themselves.

Anyway, thanks for trying it out PeppyHare4000. Being a lunatic level player, I'd really appreciate your feedback on the gameplay of my mod versus KS1.2.1. My engine has a little more bulk than the official release --mainly due to Juni's replaceable graphics-- and I'd like to know if you notice any differences, especially with movement.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: PeppyHare4000 on June 15, 2011, 13:20:22
Hmm... you know about my difficulty preference in knytt story levels. Interesting...

So far, i have experienced no difference except for the convenience of the new last installed and last played features and the click on level automatically after installing.

I played a level that was on Very Hard difficulty and there was no lag or anything. Keep up the good work...
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on June 18, 2011, 00:39:46
I discovered a big mistake today. Several bank 4 creatures get created twice. I believe this is due to incomplete Golden Creature code. I copied the creatures into the Collectibles bank but I didn't alter the function calls, so they get called there too. This will result in many levels being harder than intended. Only 2 months are left before I can resume work.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on June 18, 2011, 19:57:27
Do you have a thread or web site that is dedicated to the current capabilities of your mod?  I know I've seen threads about it in the past but didn't see anything after a brief search.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on June 18, 2011, 21:45:46
This is the only place to discuss it for now. The main ways to know what it can do and how to do it is by looking at the demo level and reading the "Animation Instructions.txt" both included in the download. "Animation Instructions" includes not only instructions for making Override Custom Objects (OCO) and Custom Characters, but also all the new World.ini commands. I'll copy the current text here for convenience.

Spoiler: Animation Instructions (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: PeppyHare4000 on July 01, 2011, 15:22:31
Found a glitch...
For right moving lasers, if there is nothing to stop it and it returns if it goes to the edge of the screen, it will not turn on until it moves left... might want to fix that!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on July 01, 2011, 15:32:03
Found a glitch...
For right moving lasers, if there is nothing to stop it and it returns if it goes to the edge of the screen, it will not turn on until it moves left... might want to fix that!

Well, you've correctly identified the issue I necro-bumped the Going Left thread for... to think this was the one normal Knytt Stories level I chose to play in ego's mod. Finished it now, great level!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on July 02, 2011, 00:29:29
Thanks guys. To make the moving lasers play nicely with Override Custom Objects (OCO) I had to rewrite their behaviors. I remember taking advantage of MMF2's default behaviors to initialize them. Then simply toggling their behavior on collisions. Obviously, I never considered what happens when they reach a screen edge. Oops! I'll add this to the bug list.
Edit: I took a closer look. The lasers are managing to bounce off the left edge twice --due to the change in speed I'm guessing. This causes them to toggle their behavior twice. This doesn't happen when bouncing off a solid object, because there's a "Push Out" function that pushes objects out of walls before they can cause a problem. No such function exists for the screen's edges.


I discovered that I forgot to add an animation-helper object to the to-do list, one that would hide Juni while you run an animated picture of her. It was sitting in my wish list, which I haven't shared nor will share because I don't want people to anticipate features that most likely will never happen. I'll add this to the to-do list.

Development resumes in about 2 months. I can't wait!

Edit: 02August2011: I have discovered another bug. If you delete the last played or last installed level and then filter for it in the selection menu, you can open up an empty level. I'm shocked that the game doesn't freak out. It just puts Juni into the void. I'll have to alter those level filters to anticipate deletions.
Edit: 03August2011: The bug I thought I found yesterday was actually a pre-existing one. The one where sometimes a level only gets partially deleted. So, not my fault.

I did re-discover another bug where empty signs don't show. This is suppose to happen if there is an existing second message, but it does it whenever there is a missing first message. I want the empty box to appear for legacy purposes, even though empty message boxes are almost always level designer mistakes.


Development resumes at the end of the month.


Edit: 23August2011: Development resumes this weekend! :)


Edit: 30August2011: So, I have been working on this again. I have fixed all the bugs I know of, and added some new functionality. I will get the new version up for download as soon as I get it squared away, a day or 2.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on September 02, 2011, 07:05:11
I'm double posting to let you know version beta ego 1 is out. This release mainly fixes bugs found over the summer, but it also includes timed/delayed shifting and animated shifting. Check out the updated features demonstration level packed with the mod to see them in action. Download the zip file in the opening post (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=4175.msg46332#msg46332).

Edit: 03Sept2011: I've fixed the Sign so that a blank sign will appear if a first message exists but a second message does not. This fix will only help make the engine backwards compatible with levels that have blank signs, but I fixed it anyway.

More importantly I've improved character visibility handling. Now, the player character will no longer briefly appear in her old position when shifting to a new relative position on a new screen. I've also improved the Animated Shifting in the same way, and I've added visibility safeties for character changes during either of these instances. These changes will not only improve new levels, but old ones as well.

These fixes will appear in the next release. I'm not sure when that will be. I'd like to work on it a bit more before I make another release.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on September 16, 2011, 20:33:35
More importantly I've improved character visibility handling. Now, the player character will no longer briefly appear in her old position when shifting to a new relative position on a new screen. I've also improved the Animated Shifting in the same way, and I've added visibility safeties for character changes during either of these instances. These changes will not only improve new levels, but old ones as well.
Do you mean the character does appear in old position on a new screen for a brief moment in original KS? That's strange...
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on September 19, 2011, 09:49:35
Do you mean the character does appear in old position on a new screen for a brief moment in original KS? That's strange...
Yes. It probably isn't noticeable on a fast computer, but It happens. It even happens when scrolling screens, but it is less noticeable because the player is partially outside of the playing field on a scrolling screen change. I test the engine on my old laptop to make sure I'm not bulking up the game to much, but I'm sure you could see it on a fast computer if you run a lot of other programs in the background.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on September 20, 2011, 10:52:49
Got it, fixed it too. To check that it works right I decreased framerate.

In another topic you wrote:
For the record, the KSDS jumping and falling animations were also altered in that they don't hover above the bottom of the frame as they do in the originals.
Do you mean there's some graphical glitch in the original? I don't understand what you are referring to.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on September 21, 2011, 08:27:45
No glitch. Some of the sprites for Juni in KSDS are positioned differently within the animation frames. I guess it has something to do with the engine being re-written for that port.

Quote
I decreased framerate.
Why didn't I think of that? I'm always watching very carefully when I could just slow it all down. Doh!

Edit: 28Sept2011: I've added OCO support for the rest of Bank 14 and bank 18. That leaves 2 banks to go. Woo! I can't wait to finish this part because it's the biggest and most boring part of the project, repeating the same steps for most of the objects in the game.

I've run into a mystery while testing OCO support for the Water Thing, bank 18 object 6. It only has a single direction it can face, right. When I check it's facing sometimes it reports left. This is a problem because I ask the original objects which way they are facing, so I know which way to face the custom graphics. If I instruct it to face right then it reports correctly, but I don't like telling it to do what it's already doing. What gives? I'm afraid I'll have to make sure all objects that can only face one direction know which way they're looking. I probably should go report this at the ClickTeam forum.

I've been considering turning the golden creatures into spirit creatures or something like that. After participating in the thread about currencies (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=4896.0) for Knytt/WaDF golden creatures seem a little too materialistic for the Knytt universe. Same problem with the 100 coins. So, I would like opinions and suggestions for these collectibles as well as the 7 types of artifacts I want to incorporate.


Edit: 29Sept2011: I was going to report that the OCO support is complete, but I just realized I haven't supported bank zero yet. The golden creatures are nearly finished too, only 7 of 50 left.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on October 02, 2011, 19:43:04
I've made a new release today because I've just finished implementing the greatest improvement yet, a map system! As you may know, holding E will highlight the edges of the screen. Double tapping E or pressing M will now open the map. It tracks rooms as you progress, represented as white boxes. The map saves and loads, and your progress is regressed to your last save on death. I've added a Map power to the standard powers and keys. This gives you the ability to see rooms you haven't entered yet.

I want your input. How do you like the appearance? Do you think the number of rooms visible is adequate? Any thoughts, please share them with me.

I also finished the Golden Creatures and OCO's, but they both need testing and there are many problems with the GC's, so finished is a relative term.

Picture 1=Normal screen with Map power-up visible.
Picture 2=Map overlaying the normal screen showing visited rooms.
Picture 3=Unvisited rooms are visible with the Map power collected.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on October 02, 2011, 19:58:13
The map system is a nice addition! Since the rooms on the map can convey the same amount of information using much smaller dimensions, I'd say the map could be scaled down (and thus display a larger area) quite easily. I don't know if this would require more processing power or anything, if so that would be a good reason to keep it how it is, otherwise a few more visible rooms would probably be helpful.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on October 02, 2011, 20:24:16
The map is a pretty slim addition code wise. I modeled it after the expandable map in the editor. That produces 2400 rooms in an instant. This map can be just as fast at 1200 rooms. Scaling up will be a piece of cake too. Bulk wise, I'm a little worried about saving the progress map. I'm saving it as a compressed bin file in the save directory. Basically, I'm adding all the room headers the player encounters and nothing else. To help that out I made it so it only saves if it's been altered --the player entered new rooms since last save.

That's another thing I'd like to ask. I went with a binary array because it was best/simplest option I saw, but I don't know much about the data storage options available in MMF2. Does anyone know if this was a good approach, or if there's a better one.

Here are some other map sizes I just made. The originals above show 13x13 rooms. These show 19x19 and 31x31.

Edit: 02Oct2011: I found a game breaking error. If you started a new application it wouldn't copy the default save .ini Meaning you started on screen x0y0 position x0y0. It worked fine when testing from within MMF2. Apparently It didn't like me creating the map's .bin file directly after copying the save .ini. Swapping the order of these instructions fixed it. Go to the top post to get the fixed version, KS12ego2b.

This version's map is 25x25 which I think is a pretty good size for the map. I darkened the unvisited rooms a bit and changed the appearance of the center room to make it more prominent.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on October 03, 2011, 15:18:18
I also like your idea of minimap, so I've tried to implement it in an interesting way. Here's what I got so far :crazy: Looks like it broke whole sprites cache of MMF2 or whatever it uses. This is a screenshot from The Machine.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on October 04, 2011, 00:32:02
@GrayFace: I think you're drawing the room tiles into the background. No matter what frame layer you do that at it draws to the bottom of the stack, or on top of layers 0 to 3 behind the objects. I kept all my tiles as objects.

So, I think I've really solved the loading bug from before. On further testing I discovered it was still there and only happened part of the time. It turns out that when a save slot was erased but there was no map .bin, it threw an error that could prevent copying the default save game .ini. I'm going to test it more before I re-upload it. But, that's not the only problem. I was testing the map system on a larger game and the saving was very slow. I have an idea for manually compressing the map data but executing it will be a mind bender.

Edit: I've uploaded a version that fixes new game loading after old games were erased.


Edit: I've uploaded yet another version that dramatically increases save/load time. Get KS12e2d in the opening post.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on October 04, 2011, 11:27:33
@GrayFace: I think you're drawing the room tiles into the background. No matter what frame layer you do that at it draws to the bottom of the stack, or on top of layers 0 to 3 behind the objects. I kept all my tiles as objects.
No, it's a combination of loading object frame and replacing color. I've just tested it without map code:
1) I create two copies of the same Active object.
2) I load frame 0 from a file and then do some color replacement and set frame 0 for the first object
3) I load frame 1 from the same file and then do some color replacement and set frame 1 for the second object
As a result the second object may show anything, for example a tile from map.
I can't seem to find a workaround for this bug, so for beautiful minimap I'll need an extension that would allow actual drawing, because that's what I was trying to achieve with color replacement. I've also run into save/load times problem. You can see my idea of minimap in the attachment. Now I'm thinking I could at least paint minimap squares with the average color of corresponding screen, which I can get from my extension.
Another note about color replacement: it depends on color depth. In 16-bit colors when you replace 0x000000 with something you would also get 0x000001 - 0x000007 replaced for example.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on October 04, 2011, 20:14:13
Your drawing idea looks nice, but if you show the collision layer then you will reveal all the hidden passages. The average color idea is something I thought of as well, but it may not go so easily. A screen that is half blue and half red could come out fuchsia. Then, I thought about sampling the center of the gradient for a color. I may still pursue that possibility, but I do like the minimalistic look of my current map system.

The most important feature a map could have is not interfering with gameplay. If saving and loading cause noticeable frame rate drops, then it's no good. I tested my map at 3000 screens and didn't notice any performance loss. The map save file was only 7KB at 3000 rooms, so I think there's room for a few bytes of info, like a color.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: LPChip on October 04, 2011, 23:49:22
What if you calculate the greyscale value of the screen and show all those pixels instead? You could take the color in the exact center. That way, no hidden passage should be visible, but badly designed levels will just show a simple map like in the OP (which is the alternative anyway)

EDIT: you don't actually have to use the greyscale value at all. Just take that color and use it, then alternatively blend it with the background.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on October 05, 2011, 09:04:11
Here's approximately how it would look with average color.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: LPChip on October 05, 2011, 12:57:27
And what if you do that on a pixel based instead of square based, like your first screenshot that shows the layout of the cavern based on layer 3 content?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on October 05, 2011, 18:37:55
That would be cool. Looks like these extensions would be enough for that: Overlay Redux + Active Overlay + Get Pixel Colour Object. There's also Viewport Object that may be interesting.
The bad thing is that save game size would be much bigger with per-pixel drawing. 750 bytes per visited screen. 0.75 MB per 1000 screens... Not dramatic, although I won't be able to keep it in ini like I wanted. Binary storage should work fine I guess.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on October 09, 2011, 04:31:36
Progress update: I've now added the 100 collectable coins, finished tweaking the behaviors of Golden Creatures, and double checked the placement of Override Custom Objects. Next up, OCO support for bank 0, recoloring Golden Creatures (they still aren't golden), and adding a shift function allowing coins to be used for commerce.

Edit: I experimented with coloring the map and discovered that replacing the colors of an active object doesn't work the way I thought it did. I'd have to use a method like the ones described by GrayFace and LPChip above to color the map. I'll probably leave it as is though. I'm not sure I'd like it better with color.

Furthermore, my new understanding of color replacement revealed that changing the color of nature effects broke them. The yellow rain in the example level would appear with the normal rain object once the yellow rain had been seen. I've fixed it though. They'll be working properly in the next release.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: PeppyHare4000 on October 16, 2011, 22:51:03
I am against the idea of having a map because it can reveal secret areas easily...
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on October 17, 2011, 16:14:24
I am against the idea of having a map because it can reveal secret areas easily...
By default, my map system will only show where you've been already. The map power-up must be included in a level and found by the player for unvisited areas to show. It's a lot like the map system in any Metroid or Castlevania game. In theory it only records what a player could track with graph paper or a good memory.

I can't see the map as anything other than an improvement, something Knytt Stories should have had from the start. But, since it hasn't been there from the start old levels were not designed for good mapping. I know I've tried to track my progress in a level in the past only to discover that the rooms overlapped. Most existing levels, including my own, will make little sense on a map. There are simple tools in my mod to allow good mapping despite warps and shifts, but old levels obviously don't make use of them. Also, many levels try to lose or confuse the player as they traverse the winding paths. Not so easy to do when the player has a map.

The point is, I think maps should be on by default for any level, but if many feel as PeppyHare4000 does, then maybe it should be off by default. Then, level designers and or cheaters could turn it on, or I could make it a menu option that remembers it's setting. Opinions please.

Updates: Golden creatures are now gold in color. And commerce with coins is now possible. Both will be available in the next update.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: BloxMaster on October 18, 2011, 03:18:42
I haven't looked at any KS mods since stopping my own (KSA, which is actually embarrassing for me to admit), and although I could probably talk a lot about how impressed I am with current mods, I'm just going to limit it to the immediate subject:

Map views. I love the idea! But I also must say that there's a few little things that I want to point out. Firstly; shifts and warps. This is going to make it very confusing or even impractical for levels using shifts or warps. Just because physical location is thrown out the window. You could easily be a room beside the one you were just at (think shift animations or boss-fights), or halfway across a map with no orientation at all, since you haven't 'visited' any of the rooms, but yet- they might be only a little different than the rooms you have visited. In fact, they might -be- the same rooms you were already in- but since they are in another location, it doesn't show up. For this reason I think it'd be best to be able to turn off the map view, maybe via a per-save setting? The only other thing I can think of is maybe make it a power-up but that's not what you have in mind, and I can't think of a lot of levels really -needing- to use it...so they wouldn't.
I do think leaving it -on- by default is not harming anything, though.

Now, my second and last note..is that it's useful- but very plain. It shows you what screens you have been to...but there's no possible way to identify them as-is. If you are in the middle of a lot of visited rooms, how can you tell what room is say...two away from you? The map doesn't give you many clues in this case.

Anyway, keep up the good work!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on October 18, 2011, 13:33:16
One thing I figured is that having minimap show up in the corner of the screen and being able to play with it always on is no good, it ruins immersion into the game. I'll see how a bigger minimap would turn out.
I've actually implemented a colored minimap with Active objects by using 216 frames with different colors, that is 6 grades of each component. The good thing is that color is stored in 1 byte this way. Performance of detailed minimap showing miniatures of screens is unsatisfactory (with Active objects), but with 1 color per screen it's all fine. To get the color I use Pixel Object from LIJI pack. I think I can even add pretty good support for warps, but not for flag warps and shift animations.

There are simple tools in my mod to allow good mapping despite warps and shifts, but old levels obviously don't make use of them.
That sounds really interesting.

Edit: Well, I like the way my map turned out (see the attached image). I still don't want anyone to develop a minimap addiction, but now I'm pretty certain I will include the map in KS Ex. I don't know if I want it on by default or not.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: LPChip on October 18, 2011, 23:23:07
This looks great!

I'd say, make the minimap off unless a key is pressed/hold. If its always visible, it should be small as in: the size of a screen is perhaps 3x2 pixels, and a total of 5x5 screens are shown at a time around you. Optionally, using a keypress to get the full minimap.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on October 19, 2011, 00:11:12
That does look nice GrayFace. Using pre-colored frames is something I thought of, but I've been focusing on other improvements while I consider what I want to do with the map if anything. How are you determining which color the rooms are? Are you averaging the entire screens or just sampling a potion? This would make the map considerably more useful.

@ BloxMaster: My concept was that the player knows the area they are in without a map. The map only shows the shape of the regions they've explored. It's greatest value would be in seeing where you haven't been. However, GrayFace's map coloring method looks promising. I'll have to try out his next release and see if adds value.

"Map spoofing" as I'm calling it works simply. In any room that is a clone of a mapped room you simply add the coordinates of the real room in the World.ini.
Code: [Select]
[x950y1000]
MapX=1000

[x950y950]
MapX=1000
MapY=1000

[x1000y950]
MapY=1000
When opening the map from any of the above screens, it would be drawn with x1000y1000 as the center. If cloned rooms are put at least 13 screens away from the edges of the real map then they will never been seen. The map only shows up to 12 rooms in every direction for a total of 25 by 25, 625. This only works for cloned rooms though. If you clone an entire section of the map (e.g. day and night versions of the same map.) Then each section will have to be explored separately for them both to appear on the map.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on October 19, 2011, 03:09:39
I'd say, make the minimap off unless a key is pressed/hold.
I came to this conclusion too.

That does look nice GrayFace. Using pre-colored frames is something I thought of, but I've been focusing on other improvements while I consider what I want to do with the map if anything. How are you determining which color the rooms are? Are you averaging the entire screens or just sampling a potion? This would make the map considerably more useful.
I feel like using limited number of colors is only doing good for the map, because close screens often get exactly the same color and it looks good.
Determining the color is pretty interesting:
1) I take color samples from a number of pixels. There are 7x3 points, 4 adjacent pixels in each (to average patterns). See attached image.
2) I average the color.
3) I choose one of the sampled colors that is closer to averaged color.
Spoiler: code (click to show/hide)
Also don't forget (as I did) to hide the map for a moment before taking the color of screen. :)

"Map spoofing" as I'm calling it works simply. In any room that is a clone of a mapped room you simply add the coordinates of the real room in the World.ini.
It won't solve the problem with warps. For example, the one in A Strange Dream which warps around the level. Maybe something can be done for that kind of things too...

The map only shows up to 12 rooms in every direction for a total of 25 by 25, 625.
Exactly the same for my map :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on October 19, 2011, 16:31:37
It won't solve the problem with warps. For example, the one in A Strange Dream which warps around the level. Maybe something can be done for that kind of things too...
I really can't imagine how to work that. Maps are often chaotic with bits of level scattered everywhere. Making the map function smart enough to recognize when a warp stitches sections of the world together versus a warp that simply brings the player back from a duplicate room is daunting. Then it would have to resolve conflicts when rooms overlap. The wrapping point of A Strange Dream happens in a secret passage with a bit of strangeness in it. I don't see it as a problem if players finds themselves at the opposite end of the map. In levels with seamless wraps like Mashu Prappa the map may make the world seem less seamless, but our experiences in the real world with real maps has trained us for that sort of thing --maps have edges, not the planet.

I'd say, make the minimap off unless a key is pressed/hold. ...
I'm thinking of changing my method for showing the map. Currently it appears if you double tap the E key. Press E again to shut it off. Alternately you can toggle it's display with single presses of the M key. (Holding the E key highlights the screen's edge. Something I feel is useful during full screen play on dark levels.) I will keep the M key as is. The E key I want to change to Tap then Hold for map reveal. Ultimately, I want to make a large inventory display that will be displayed the same way using the Q key for Tap-then-Hold display and the I key to toggle display. I plan to have this implemented in the next release, so you can try it out. My main concern is that I've never heard of such a control scheme, and I'm wondering if there's a good reason for that. My affinity for console video games makes me feel I should never have to move my hands to use all the controls.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on October 20, 2011, 10:06:57
Holding the E key highlights the screen's edge.
I'd prefer it to switch highlighting on/off.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on October 20, 2011, 16:13:49
I don't want to break the mood, and it's consistent with the inventory bar's behavior. I guess I could give edge highlighting a secondary key like the map and extended inventory displays. We'll see.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on October 21, 2011, 03:15:00
I've found a way to handle different tricky situations with the map. I've made 3 commands: move, show, hide.
"move" works like yours, moving one map square to a new place (with possibility of overlap with an existing square).
"show" adds view from square #2 underneath current view when you are in the square #1. So, in case of warp like in Mashu Prappa you would add view from the left side of the world when you are on the right side of it and vise versa. In case of The Machine you would show the dark map underneath colorful map when the machine is off, so it looks like the map is being recolored as you go.
"hide" simply disables the map on selected square and doesn't show the square on map when you move to other squares.
All commands may operate on rectangular areas of squares instead of one square: "x0y0-x10y10 move x100y100" would mean 11 by 11 rectangle [x0y0, x10y10] would be moved so that x0y0 would become x100y100.
The format is actually pretty free-form. The script only checks the strings for key words "move", "hide", "show" and takes all numbers from the string as parameters.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on January 12, 2012, 11:15:18
I've released a new version, KS12e3. All 50 golden creatures and 100 coins are included, overrideable, and golden. Coins can be used for commerce. Power-up graphics can now be replaced including the inventory images. Map viewing key presses are streamlined. The edge highlight can be kept on. And the biggest change, keys can be mapped by placing these instructions in the Settings.ini found in your Knytt Stories folder:

Code: [Select]
[Keys]
Up=Up
Down=Down
Left=Left
Right=Right
Walk=A
Jump=S
Umbrella=D
Item=Q
Holo=W
Nav=E
Edge=H
Map=M
Inv=I
; updated 03 Dec. 2012

Note: The default controls are listed above. The last 4 lines are specific to this mod. "Full" has not been implemented. Play the updated Features Demonstration to learn about the others.

Almost forgot, when testing from the editor press 3 to see the collision mask. It may take a while, because it tests every pixel on the screen for solidity.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Widget on January 12, 2012, 11:54:11
I'm a big fan of the new E key behaviour for pulling up the map. It took me a moment to realise what was meant by "tap and hold" but it's a very comfortable action once it's familiar and feels a lot more "knytt-ish" than the previous incarnation.

Being a sucker for collectibles I love the whole coin system too and the golden creatures are looking fantastic.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on January 12, 2012, 21:56:25
Glad you like it! I've put a lot of work into those collectibles, and I have a lot more to do. 49 artifacts and a full inventory to track your collection. (The full inventory will open just like the map using the Q and I keys.) Exploration has always been one of the main draws for Knytt Stories. Collectables can only strengthen it in my opinion.

I should have mentioned this before, but there are currently a limited number of keyboard keys available for mapping, Letters A-Z, Arrow Keys, and these symbols [ ] ; ' , . / namely left bracket, right bracket, semicolon, apostrophe, comma, period, forward slash. I'm not familiar with non-Qwerty boards, so if more keys are desired please let me know.

Edit: 17Jan2012: While altering the code for the Drop Crawler, 4:7, so it would shoot in all directions when stopped by the invisible walking creature blocker, I inadvertently broke it completely. So, version 1.2.ego.3b fixes that. It also fixes the shooting of the other Drop Crawler, 4:6, in the same way.

Edit: 31Jan2012: I've been programming obsessively this week. Finally added color to the map, and I love the difference it makes. I'm using the the same 84 sample points GrayFace uses in his mod, but the color pallet is only 64 compared to his 216. It's my hope that a limited color pallet will give uniform results. I've also altered the mapping routines to give better results for faked locations.

There's a new feature inspired by Super Juni Land, screen tints. By simply adding Tint=# (where # is a number representing a color) to a room in the World.ini. The screen will tint without the flashing seen with COs. Adding Tint=0 to a room's logic shuts it off. Under the hood it's actually a re-purposing of the mini map's background, a black tint normally.

These changes and many things too minor to mention will be in the next release. I don't know when that will be.

Edit: 5Feb2012: I've been working on the full inventory. This is a display similar to the mini-map that shows what collectibles you've found. I'm making it dynamic, so it will only show information for items you've found. For example: If you've only picked up golden creature type collectibles, then only the creature chart will display and it will be centered. However once you find an artifact, the creature chart will move to the side to share the screen with the artifact display. The point of the dynamic display is that if a level doesn't contain collectibles of all types, then there wont be any empty slots to fill at the end of the game. The only part, I'm not happy with is what happens when no collectibles have been found --it shows an empty screen. How can I convey an empty inventory without words?

Another addition is Keyboard Tiles. If Juni touches them they override player control, emulating keystrokes. I'm not sure how useful they'll be outside of animated "cutscenes", but I leave that to level designers.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on February 06, 2012, 22:36:47
The forum has been so inactive these last couple of days, I'm just going to double post. That last post of mine is getting too long anyway.

I've finished the first version of the full inventory screen. (See attachment.) It has 4 areas; the item bar, Artifacts, Golden Creatures, and Coins.

Spoiler: In depth explanation (click to show/hide)

I'd appreciate feedback on the layout, especially if anything looks confusing. Expect to see it in the next release. No release date has been scheduled.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Miss Paula on February 07, 2012, 13:19:52
not sure about the usefulness of the equation, and I think personally I'd put the artifacts icons next to the bars instead of on them, because now they look like sliders you'd want to move. other than that, looks and sounds really sensible/good. :D
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: LPChip on February 07, 2012, 14:06:46
I agree with Paula. At first sight, I thought they were sliders.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on February 07, 2012, 15:24:31
Sliders, I never thought of that. I'll move the icons.

On the equation, I need a simple way to express how many Coins have been found. This is complicated by the spending mechanic, since your current total may not be the overall total. How can I express the 2 totals in a simple and obvious way? The equation is a good attempt, but it doesn't indicate there are 100 possible.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: LPChip on February 07, 2012, 16:39:04
How about: items found / items to find for section / items total? or maybe just: found / total: example: coins: 31 / 52
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on February 07, 2012, 17:39:14
Yeah if they are in the toolbar already, and if the toolbar is visible whenever the menu is visible, then I think it isn't necessary to point out the number of coins twice.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on February 07, 2012, 23:07:12
After my last posting I came up with this. (See attachment.) I moved the Artifact icons off their bars. More importantly, I replaced the equation with a Coin bar. The hashed part indicates Coins spent. The bar appears after finding your first Coin. If no Creatures and no Artifacts have been collected, it will center itself vertically.

You can't see it but, if you open the inventory before finding any collectibles, a question mark appears in the center. This is to indicate that the screen has a purpose even if the player doesn't know what it is. I'm designing the mod to enhance the playing experience on old levels as well as new ones. Old levels obviously wont have any of my new collectibles in them.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Firecat on February 08, 2012, 02:11:00
You can't see it but, if you open the inventory before finding any collectibles, a question mark appears in the center. This is to indicate that the screen has a purpose even if the player doesn't know what it is.

Incidentally, i was going to say that GrayFace's Extended Version uses the same system when the map is used in a screen with the "hide" command (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=4175.msg54458#msg54458) on it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on February 08, 2012, 12:48:33
Oh egomassive, your UI designs are always so clean... I'm loving the latest iteration.

Another addition is Keyboard Tiles. If Juni touches them they override player control, emulating keystrokes. I'm not sure how useful they'll be outside of animated "cutscenes", but I leave that to level designers.

It would be cool if this could somehow apply to NPCs. Actually, now that I've thought about it for more than a second, this might be possible to fake using some of the other features of your mod, which would probably be more fun to implement anyway.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on February 08, 2012, 19:52:41
I've now added Artifact Flag Warps. I know it sounds weird, but this is how it works:
Code: [Select]
[x1000y1000]
Flag(A)=true
FlagWarpY(A)=artifact1
If you set a Flag Warp direction to an Artifact, then the player will warp a distance equal to the number of that artifact collected. In the example code, if you have 3 red Artifacts you will warp 3 screens down. This means you'll need a room for each possible outcome, 0-7. If you set Artifacts to X and Y directions you'll have 64 possible outcomes which is insane. You may have noticed that you can set a flag to "true". This is so you don't have to test something unrelated for Artifact Flag Warps.

I'm nearly finished with this project! I'll release the current version as soon as I update the Features Demonstration level that comes with it.

@Firecat: Sometimes it's hard to tell who's copying who when it comes to GrayFace and I. I may have been unwittingly inspired by his mod. I'm sure I got the idea from some game.

@Sergiocornaga: Thanks. There are a lot of thing that would be cool. Moving platforms, jump-through platforms, and custom AI to name a few (which all happen to be available in KS Ex.) But, from the start I wanted to make sure my mod's features could be easily used by anyone already familiar with Knytt Stories level design. It was also very important not to change the feel of the game (which is why swimming got scrapped.) Making this mod and Knytt Stories in general has made me think of how I would make a custom-level oriented game from the ground up, and I may do that someday. But for now, I'm more interested in making this mod feel like an official release. (P.S. Which all means a programmable NPC is outside my goals.)

Edit: 09Feb2012: Version ego beta 4 is released! Get it in the opening post.

Edit: 20Feb2012: I discovered an error in the map system. If you spoofed to a location that didn't exist, a void, then a never ending loop occurred and the map wouldn't shut off. I naively thought that the the room in the center of the map must exist, because that's where you are. But, with the ability to spoof locations and enter voids this isn't always the case. It is now fixed and will be in the next release.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Firecat on February 28, 2012, 12:35:14
Also, did you know that 19:14 (One of the collectible creatures) Kills you when you try to collect it?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on February 29, 2012, 01:28:41
Some golden creatures require the hologram power. 19:14, a turtle-like Knytt that extends spikes when approached, is an example of this. So is the golden static spiker, 19:28.

ETA: Thank you for testing the mod Firecat. Are you making a level with it?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on March 14, 2012, 03:02:52
I've been looking into making a level editor for this mod. My main goal is to add a better World.ini editor. I will be building from Looki or GrayFace's editor. So far the only thing I've done is get rid of those flashing selection markers. I've replaced them with rotating, yellow/black dashes (See attachments.) I've retained the expandable selection functionality Looki implemented, but I had to rewrite most of it because it was completely incompatible with my dashes.

Don't know at this point if I'll continue making an editor or not. I really don't want to distract from The Tree of Knowledge, but this editor would be a huge productivity booster. I'm also facing zero access to MMF2 again this summer.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 14, 2012, 03:38:35
What degree of control do you have over the selection? Can it be irregular, or only a rectangular shape?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on March 14, 2012, 13:35:06
Currently, selecting has the same functionality as in Looki's editor, which allows rectangles that must be drawn from top-left to bottom-right. I would like to add irregular shapes, but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort. Were talking vastly more complicated selection routines, new user interfaces, new painting routines, new "undo" methods, etc. One thing I'm sure I'll add is the ability to draw rectangles in any direction.

Help Wanted
I'm considering the addition of Help Contents. While reading through the source I discovered functions I never knew of. For instance, I knew you could flood fill with a Shift+LeftClick but I didn't know you could paint a pattern larger than a single tile or that you could replace all tiles of a kind with a Shift+RightClick. And that's only 2 of the many things I've just learned about the editor in the last few days. Most of it's pretty obscure stuff that doesn't belong in a tutorial, but I'm thinking it should be documented somewhere. Although I'm confident in my ability to write clear descriptions, this isn't something I have to write myself. Is anyone interested in helping me author it?

Edit: 14March2012: Omnidirectional selecting now works on both the canvas and the tileset. You will be able to choose a tile and expand into a larger selection in any direction. It's one of those things that seems like it should be compulsory if you're going to include area selections, but it was surprising how much extra code it required. I really need to stop indulging in these trivial matters and delve into the meat and bones of what I want to do to the editor.

Edit: 14March2012: Quick question. Is anyone interested in a 300% zoom for Knytt Stories. My mod currently includes a 200% zoom for screens over 1200px wide. A 3 times zoom would require a screen over 1800px which is becoming common with HD 1080. I don't have a monitor that large, so I don't know if a pixel perfect scaling would look noticeably better.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: DennHenda on March 16, 2012, 08:26:15
Greetings.  I am having fun creating a level, and I am trying to use your mod for the collectable artifacts.  But I seem to be having a problem with custom images for them.

I am able to get the item bar icon to show, so I know I have the Custom Objects folder correct.
I have added in the Artifact1=MyImage.png into the world.ini.

The only thing I can think of that could be wrong is the image itself, not following the template correctly.  I can't find a template to match the artifacts.  I'm not entirely sure this is the problem, but it's my last guess.

I appreciate any help.  Thank you for an excellent mod!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on March 16, 2012, 18:29:00
@ DennHenda: Well this is embarrassing. Custom artifacts don't work. I implemented whole lot of features when I "added" that one. I must not have tested it. I'll figure this out and put out a new version of the mod as soon as possible. Thanks for finding this bug, sorry for the trouble it's caused you, and welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: DennHenda on March 16, 2012, 19:53:52
Ah, it hasn't caused any trouble.  Thanks for letting me know, I would have sat there for hours just trying to figure out where I was messing up.

Take your time on it, sir.  And thank you again!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on March 16, 2012, 22:37:00
I've fixed the issues discussed above, and a slew of related bugs that I discovered because of them. I say slew, but it was really just one bug repeated 50 times in the Golden Creatures logic.

To illustrate custom collectibles I've created a new demo level, Customnibus, which can be found in the download on the opening post. This brings us to version Knytt Stories 1.2.ego.4b. And having just written that mouthful (handful?), I am reminded that I'm still looking for a proper name. KS Ego, although appropriate, seems too personal to me.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Pie_Sniper on March 16, 2012, 22:59:52
I noticed a fairly insignificant issue while testing your Customnibus, but it nonetheless conflicts with the behavior of vanilla KS: the inventory does not update if you collect something while it is open until it has been closed and opened again.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on March 16, 2012, 23:19:35
Knytt Stories Plus, KS+
Adding "plus" to names isn't old already, is it?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on March 17, 2012, 02:47:48
@ Pie Sniper: I've noticed that myself, but I don't consider it a problem. I agree that an immediate update would be an improvement though. ETA: I remember now that I intentionally disabled constant item bar updates because the now enormous inventory was slowing down performance. I guess I should figure out a way to enable them since I want this to play vanilla levels just like vanilla KS.

@ Raicuparta: Funny, I've strongly considered KS++. Your suggestion of KS+ is eerily close. I'll have to look into the origins of the double-plus, and see if it's appropriate. At any rate I'd say they're both in the running.

A little update on the Editor mod, it's driving me crazy. I'm using a Multiple Document Interface with docked windows, and the Scintilla object is being a pain. Scintilla is a text editor engine that Looki built an MMF2 extension for. There doesn't seem to be a way to give it focus just by clicking on it. It's such a basic thing, but I can't make it work. Also, according to Looki's source if you double-click on a screen group, e.g. [x1000y1000], the whole editor should move to that screen, but it doesn't happen, not even when using Looki's original mod. Does this work for anyone else?

Edit: I'm reading through Looki's Editor Mod thread. It clearly states in the opening post that picking rooms from the ini editor doesn't work.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on March 17, 2012, 16:10:09
I'm including an advanced World.ini editor in my level editor which can be turned on and off. As you may know the original level editor can be used on a 800x600 resolution screen. I'm aiming for 1024x768. In order to accommodate this goal, I may rearrange the editor layout. I need as much horizontal screen space as possible for Ini editor. So, check out these mock ups, and tell me what you think.

The second screen is how it looks when choosing a test location. New features worth mentioning are preview strips of adjacent rooms, test and set start with flags, and a status bar (the black band at the bottom will give contextual feed back.) None of these have actually been implemented yet.

Edit: Deleted pictures. See newer version below.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 17, 2012, 16:57:32
To be honest I'm not totally digging it... I think some of the position changes (objects/banks mainly) are just drastic enough that it could be hard to adapt. Will the INI editor work in such a way that the objects/banks can't be positioned above it? Will it act as a separate window? I think I'd be able to judge better if the INI editor were included in the mock ups.

The extra features are cool though. I love the look of the preview strips.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on March 17, 2012, 17:19:36
Adapting isn't a huge issue.
One thing I can think of that is taking up a lot more space than it needs (even though it doesn't take up a lot of space to begin with) is the color selection for the tileset area background. Instead of 8 buttons, it could be just 1 that behaves like the background/tileset/bank/object selectors, change it by clicking or with the mouse wheel.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on March 17, 2012, 18:46:00
@ Sergoicornaga: Let me show you what I've got, so you can see why I need to make changes. (See attachment.) The green area is where the 3rd-Part-Tools style interface will be. That and the text editor are too small. Also, there are empty spots in the map pane caused by the addition of the preview strips.

@ Raicuparta: That's a great idea about the color switching. My greatest displeasure with the mock-up is it's so cluttered.

eta: Please ignore my "Classic Windows" theme.

Edit: Added another mock-up. This one keeps things closer to their original positions. Clicking "test" would replace the sound selectors with power and flag choices.


Edit: 18Mar2012: It's a little know fact that Knytt Stories allows gradients to be any width. However, the level editor shows an error message if the gradient isn't 24px, 120px, or 600px wide. My editor allows any factor of 600 now. For example, you could use a gradients that are 300px, 200px, or 60px wide.

In other news, the ini editor grabs focus when it's clicked on. I know it seems pretty basic, but the text editor object wasn't set up for it, so I had to be really creative.

I still haven't decided on a layout for the map editor yet. I'd go with the version attached here, EditorLayoutD.png, if it weren't for the mini-map being so small.


Edit: Deleted pictures. See newer version below.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on March 18, 2012, 20:35:05
That new mockup is exactly what I had in mind after what Sergio said, but I worry about the small map :/
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 19, 2012, 05:28:15
I think having it at the bottom like that provides a great sense of the order things are visually rendered in. Perhaps this could function as a kind of minimum width, with more spaced out versions of the same layout for those at larger resolutions? The window could even be resizable, provided you're feeling ambitious and that's a feature MMF is even capable of.

What happens when pressing the script button?

Replying to your earlier 300% zoom query, I've realised it would be useful for me, especially if I can have a black border obscuring the rest of the screen. The current editor disallows fullscreen because it messes things up, for me this could act as a good alternative.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on March 19, 2012, 16:38:24
@ Segiocornaga: The script button expands the window and launches the ini editor pane. I plan on reverting back to the old background button and placing a new script button somewhere along the right edge.

If I do the 300% zoom it will be windowed. Having both enlarging methods working here as they do is a tremendous feat. Adding black borders may not be possible.

On having multiple layouts, not going to happen. Too much of the program depends on window locations. I'm trying to make as much of it reference variables as possible (so I can change one variable when I move something,) but some of it is unavoidable (e.g. checking to see if the mouse is in a zone.) I'm actually struggling with disallowing re-size and maximize. After hammering out all my focus issues, I discovered that MDI mode forces me to allow resizing and maximizing. This, of course, opens the door to many other problems. *Sigh*

Edit: I've managed to get a different window management mode to work. Now, the panes and the focus control behave as they should. :) In doing this I realized that I can successfully overlap the panes, and I think I've worked out a layout close enough to the end result that I can start implementing it. (See attachment.) Note: I'm going to delete some of the older mock-ups because I feel like I'm posting too many.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 20, 2012, 02:53:21
It's looking excellent. I have only minor aesthetic suggestions remaining, such as that the gap between the main level and the tileset etc. could be narrower, and/or the buttons and mid-line thing more centred. Perhaps there's also room for an extra row on the map?

Don't worry if the 300% zoom or black border doesn't work out, I'm sure I'll be content with 200% and can hack together an alternative for the latter.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on March 20, 2012, 10:49:56
Progress report: I stayed up all night implementing the preview bands, and my brain has turned to mush. Large CO's can cause problems, but otherwise the bands work wonderfully.

It turns out that there are problems with overlapping panes that I hadn't discovered yet. They wont stay in the correct order. I may have to rethink the layout a bit.

@ Sergiocornaga: After trashing the idea of black borders in zoom mode (on the game mod,) I had an idea that will probably work. Of course, MMF2 doesn't always agree with me about how it should work.

Edit: 21Mar2012: Progress report: Overlap issues have been sorted. I'm overhauling the menu command structure within the program and rearranging some other things. When you use multiple windows, the windows don't always acknowledge the program menu.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: rainulous on March 21, 2012, 22:54:25
This is starting to look great. By starting, I mean it looked great from the beginning, actually.
Editor is definately useful, as I can't figure out how to add the new stuffs as of yet.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on March 22, 2012, 16:03:59
@ Rainulous: Thanks. The KS mod was designed to be compatible with existing editors. I know the mod I'm making will be a useful tool for people who require the KS Manager/3rd Party Tools for World.ini instructions. In the meantime here are some level making tips:

Collectibles are in bank 19. Other new objects are in banks 0, 16, and 17. Also, scroll down in bank 0 to find the Keyboard objects.

Read the Animation Instructions.txt that came with the mod download. It explains all the new World.ini instructions you can use.

Examine the Features Demonstration and Customnibus levels included in the mod download. Between the two of them, every new feature has a working example.

If you have any specific questions, ask them here and I'll try to answer them in a timely fashion.

Progress Report: The new map editor layout has been implemented and is working. I'll post a screen shot once I get all the graphics updated. I'm slapping a layer of pretty all over it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on March 23, 2012, 22:40:40
Remember how I said I was going to post a screen shot after I updated the graphics? No? Well I did say that, and true to my word here it is. (See attachment.) This is not a mock-up. This is an actual screenshot from a running editor.

You might think graphics are just for looks, but I remember how lost I was when I first opened the original editor. If there wasn't such a lovely tutorial available I probably wouldn't be here today. Hopefully, the meaning of things are a bit more obvious now, but if they aren't the black bar at the bottom will give contextual feedback (eventually.) :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: rainulous on March 24, 2012, 02:10:18
Wow, that looks great. And not too much changed (position-wise) so it will be easy to adapt to.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on March 24, 2012, 12:04:31
Looks great. The only thing I don't like is the look of the layer selection. You probably made it like that so there wouldn't be unused space there, but if there is one part of that layout that is not immediately clear for new users, it's that.
Maybe you were also trying to place the 0123 layers above the tileset area and the 4567 layers above the objects area, but it doesn't look like it is intentional, which is why I say it might be confusing at first.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: rainulous on March 24, 2012, 15:01:55
I have an idea, I'm not sure if it's been thought of yet, but hey. You could make the music buttons toggles, so you don't have to press down to keep playing them.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on March 24, 2012, 20:58:57
@ Raicuparta: :( Huh, actually I really wanted a graphical representation of layers. Plain numbers versus overlapping planes, I thought it would make their purpose less obscure. And yes, I intentionally separated them over tiles and objects according to usage even though they don't really fit.

@ Rainulous: That's a good idea, but I'm not sure what the best implementation would be. Many would miss the current click-and-hold configuration if I changed it. I could put toggling on a right_click or a shift+click set up like other parts of the interface, but that seems completely non-intuitive. I could add a menu option (like Looki's "Show Custom Objects") where you can set your preference, hold or toggle.

Progress report: Made a few tweaks to the map editor and I've been cleaning up the program quite a bit. I started work on the .ini dialogues. There are many design challenges here as well. I'm positive the layout will be tabbed, because there's a lot of instructions that can go into the script and not a lot of room to display them.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on March 24, 2012, 21:17:38
@ Raicuparta: :( Huh, actually I really wanted a graphical representation of layers. Plain numbers versus overlapping planes, I thought it would make their purpose less obscure. And yes, I intentionally separated them over tiles and objects according to usage even though they don't really fit.
I have no idea why, but it didn't even cross my mind that those were overlapping planes to hint at the layers, it seems really obvious now but for some reason I didn't see it like that before.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on March 25, 2012, 00:55:30
^: Well, the numbers really ought to share the perspective of the planes they sit on. I was worried about readability, so I didn't even try it. It's a weird angle for pixel art. Maybe a touch of anti-aliasing wouldn't hurt. We'll see.

Progress report: I haven't worked on it since yesterday. :P
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: rainulous on March 26, 2012, 02:18:39
Antialiasing is like deadly poison.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on March 28, 2012, 21:55:51
Progress report: I've finished with the menu bar. It was more work than I had imagined. Some things now work as you would expect them to, e.g. copy. Other things are new or have new functionality as detailed here:
Spoiler: new menu functions (click to show/hide)

I implemented Rainulous's request. If you right click on a sound preview button it will stay on until it is right or left clicked. Using the "play all" button will shut off the other buttons. Changing a value will turn them all off, but this may change in the future.

I also did away with another MMF2 Developer-only extension. I have now rid the program of all the developer-only extensions I know of. However, I'm not sure that none of the extensions I'm still using don't fall into that category, and I don't know where to look up that info. It's my hope to make the source editable by standard versions of MMF2, to make it more accessible for future modders and myself if I ever find myself without access to MMF2 Developer.

Edit: 30Mar2012 Progress Report: I've successfully added Sign(A) to the script dialogue. I know that may not sound like much, but there was a LOT of ground work that had to be laid out. Building the rest of the dialogue should be simple in comparison.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 01, 2012, 23:42:53
Holy crap dude, just got interested in making a new level after accidentally deleting all my old work, and decided to try some of the mods.  This rock so deeply my friend.  I will be using this for my next level for sure!!!

Edit: ahh...well, maybe.  Just realized that this is primarily a world.ini issue rather than an editor mod, and I am pretty handicapped with world.ini  programing.  Still, things to think on.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 02, 2012, 12:19:06
@ Headgrinder: I'm confused by your second statement. I'm now currently working on a Level Editor mod to go with the nearly complete Knytt Stories mod I made. Although a lot of the added functionality of the KS mod relies on ini instructions, I tried to keep it as simple as possible. For example, replacing the graphics of a standard object only requires a sprite sheet and three lines of instructions:
[Custom Object 1]
Bank=2
Object=1
However, there are many additions that don't require any coding at all. The 50 golden creature collectibles and golden blocks (like keys and key blocks) require no instructions.

To simplify things further, I'm modding the Level Editor to streamline ini writing. There will be a text pane containing the script, as well as a dialogue pane similar to the 3rd party tools interface. As changes are made in one pane they will show up in the other. The editor will also include a status bar that will briefly describe what the mouse hovers over.

I have added a lot of stuff to the program and some of it is pretty complex, like combining shifts and triggers to create animations. But, I don't believe it's any harder to use than the original KS, and I'm willing to answer questions about it's usage.

Progress Report: I implemented the Test/Set_Start icons with flags. The expanded map and compress screens have been altered to fit the new dimensions. The Sign dialogues are nearly complete, and I've begun work on the Warp dialogues.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 02, 2012, 22:34:19
Oh, I'm glad you are working on a level editor mod!  Very exciting.  I was just saying that I thought you already had one... some of the statements and pics made me think that.  And by coding I mean things even as simple as...

[Custom Object 1]
Bank=2
Object=1

If my statements seem confusing, it's because they are.  :D  I didn't read the whole thread, so I didn't gather in all the details.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 03, 2012, 00:15:02
[Custom Object 1]
Bank=2
Object=1

Oops! This needs an image declaration.
[Custom Object 1]
Image=MySpriteSheet.png
Bank=2
Object=1
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 03, 2012, 03:49:11
SEE!!!???  THAT'S HOW BAD i AM!  :D
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 04, 2012, 02:54:25
I need a little help here. I'm trying to add a second kind of sign to the KS mod. I want to use a larger version of the font seen in the normal sign, but I can't find the font. It appears to be a monospace version of Silica. Silica costs $149 US! But, I haven't seen it in monospace, so it probably isn't Silica anyway. If anyone knows what font the signs actually are, or if anyone knows of a good alternative please share your knowledge with me.

The new sign will be for titles and subtitles. When you enter a room it will fade in the tile, cross fade to the subtitle, and fade out. You can use just the title or the subtitle as needed. The Title Sign will not reappear until the player has encountered a Title Sign containing a different message. The purpose of this is so you can label areas of the level without the use of sign posts and give in-game credits.
Spoiler: example usage (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on April 04, 2012, 05:25:44
The lack of certain characters in the font makes me wonder if Nifflas created it himself. Similar fonts I know of are Courier / Courier New (both monospace, but certain characters differ greatly) and Museo Slab (http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/exljbris/museo-slab/).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 04, 2012, 12:22:52
That is a fantastic function.  Wow, knytt stories is just becoming a better and better game engine.  Wish I knew more about fonts so I could help...
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 04, 2012, 23:01:25
I think I'm going to use Courier New as Sergiocornaga suggests. I would make my own enlarged version of the original font, but there are many characters I'm unfamiliar with.

@ Sergiocornaga: The trouble you're having with additional characters may be due to the ASCII format the signs use. I suggest saving the World.ini in that format if possible. These are the characters that should be available:
Spoiler: ASCII 256 (click to show/hide)

@ Headgrinder: I'm glad you like the idea. Like normal signs you will have to use the World.ini.  :ohnoes: It will be simple though:
[x1000y1000]
Title=Myskglurgisk Grottglufs
[x1001y1000]
Subtitle=Song: Nurykabe - Arrive distante

Progress Report: I added the Sign to the Sign dialogue. Which means, as you type your Sign text it will appear in a Sign bubble exactly as it will in the game. I don't know about you, but I waste a lot of time formatting my Sign text which required me to edit the ini, save, test level, repeat until perfect. Now, it will be one step, write text using the Sign dialogue.

Edit: 04Apr2012: Digging into the Sign font has led me to discover that I am familiar with most of the characters. They're just illegible. So, I'll be replacing the font you're familiar with with a cleaner version. For the most part I think the change will go unnoticed, but we'll finally be able to write Dr. Clich properly. See the attachments for a comparison of old and new fonts.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on April 06, 2012, 10:09:05
Hooray, decent-looking curly brackets at last! You did a great job tidying up the font and it's much appreciated.

Interesting... when I commented on missing characters earlier, I was specifically referring to the ampersand, which it seems actually is missing; its space is occupied by an underscore. This is an issue that probably shouldn't be fixed for legacy purposes, though.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: LPChip on April 06, 2012, 14:27:54
the underscore is in there twice, I say it should be fixed.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 07, 2012, 01:45:43
I didn't ensure I had the right characters, only that they were readable. Right after posting this I discovered the double quotation mark at the beginning is facing the wrong way. Guess I ought to check them all. Some of them are still a mystery to me, like that short dash before the Registered symbol. Most programs/fonts show nothing when it's typed.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on April 07, 2012, 05:33:22
the underscore is in there twice, I say it should be fixed.

You're probably right. I guess as long as people are aware ampersands won't work in the original Knytt Stories... or maybe that's not a big deal.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 08, 2012, 01:26:12
You're probably right. I guess as long as people are aware ampersands won't work in the original Knytt Stories... or maybe that's not a big deal.
Considerations like this are something I've been contemplating.

Backwards compatibility is something I feel is very important for any new version of KS, but I'm not sure it's wise to build backwards compatibility into my level editor. It will be a better tool for making official levels as well as mod levels, but the task of building it for both is daunting. Do I leave it up to level designers to know which functions to use, do I put warning messages everywhere, or do I give the option to disable unofficial features? I'm leaning towards the first because it's the easiest for me and strongly promotes my KS mod. I'm also leaning towards a format 3 restriction, because "ego" levels can crash the official KS.

Edit: 12Apr2010 Progress Report: I've cleaned up the original Sign font, and I'm in the process of making an enlarged version for the Title object. As soon as I get the Title object working I'll release another beta.

3 times zooming is available to those with high definition monitors. Thanks go to Sergiocornaga who tested it for me. I've also altered the way zooming behaves so that you cannot zoom on monitors that are too small to show it properly.

The item bar and full inventory update on the fly now. If you collect a power while holding the Q key it will show immediately as in KS 1.2.1. Some related bugs have been fixed. Some inventory images did not disappear when the player died. Two of the golden creatures were switched in the full inventory, and one of these appeared in the wrong location. Not sure how I missed that before.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on April 13, 2012, 19:59:09
Do I leave it up to level designers to know which functions to use, do I put warning messages everywhere, or do I give the option to disable unofficial features? I'm leaning towards the first because it's the easiest for me and strongly promotes my KS mod. I'm also leaning towards a format 3 restriction, because "ego" levels can crash the official KS.

I imagine I might use your editor to make normal levels, unless your mod is so good I ditch the vanilla version (frankly, seeming possible). I think the best option is to leave it in the designer's hands, the others options have the potential to be an annoyance for both you and the designer. Would it be a hassle for levels to only be marked as format 3 after an "ego" feature is used? If not, that might be a good compromise, otherwise the format variable isn't a hard thing for most users to change manually.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 14, 2012, 02:19:30
Would it be a hassle for levels to only be marked as format 3 after an "ego" feature is used? If not, that might be a good compromise, otherwise the format variable isn't a hard thing for most users to change manually.

Even tracking that would be difficult. What if a mod feature is used, but later deleted? How will the editor know? I think it's better to let designers edit the format if they're making 1.2.1 levels. The only automatic solution I can think of would be a wizard that checks for backwards compatibility, but I make no promises that that will happen.

Progress Report: I've finished the larger font for the Title object. Now, I only need to make the subtitle font, and then finish programming it. I'll probably release a new version of the mod within a week.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 14, 2012, 22:19:05
Looking forward to this.  This is probably too big of a modification, but would it be possible to make a layer 8 that is uses tilesets and sets them in front of Juni?  Or else modify the layer 7 so it can be used in that way?

Just curious.  It would save so much object making and guessing where and how to place them.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 15, 2012, 01:41:59
^That's^ one of the first things I set out to do. My solution was going to be an object that would cause layer 2 to be redrawn between layers 6 and 7. Like the Warp object, you'd just use it any where on a screen to make it work. The tool COs are built on couldn't handle it. Most tools that allow you to draw from a tileset can only paste into the background. It's certainly possible, but doing it fast enough is a problem.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on April 15, 2012, 15:06:42
I'll probably steal the Sign dialog and screen titles for my mod :)

I'm also leaning towards a format 3 restriction, because "ego" levels can crash the official KS.
I already use Format 3, although it's not set by default. I think you should use 4 and reject levels with 3, showing a link to my mod. I would do the same with 4.

I have an idea, I'm not sure if it's been thought of yet, but hey. You could make the music buttons toggles, so you don't have to press down to keep playing them.
I got exactly the same idea after looking at ego's screen. I never actually used the buttons, so after seeing the screenshot I checked them and felt they must be made toggles. They work great as toggles, so I don't think anyone would miss the original functionality. (example: turn on Music and start changing track number, it would be much easier to find the right music this way, and ambients especially)

Remember how I said I was going to post a screen shot after I updated the graphics? No? Well I did say that, and true to my word here it is. (See attachment.) This is not a mock-up. This is an actual screenshot from a running editor.
Seeing sides of adjacent screens is good, but it should be very clear that they belong to different screens. You did it like in KSLC and it's inconvenient for me there, because a simple line isn't enough. Except that, the rearrangement doesn't make sense to me yet, because the ini editor is still almost the same size as it was. In original layout "tabs" could be placed where the background colors are now, so they would go like: "tileset", "Ini editor", "World dialog", "Warps dialog" "Signs dialog", ...

@ Raicuparta: Funny, I've strongly considered KS++. Your suggestion of KS+ is eerily close. I'll have to look into the origins of the double-plus, and see if it's appropriate. At any rate I'd say they're both in the running.
Set KS to KS+1 would be more appropriate :D

I'm considering the addition of Help Contents. While reading through the source I discovered functions I never knew of. For instance, I knew you could flood fill with a Shift+LeftClick but I didn't know you could paint a pattern larger than a single tile or that you could replace all tiles of a kind with a Shift+RightClick. And that's only 2 of the many things I've just learned about the editor in the last few days. Most of it's pretty obscure stuff that doesn't belong in a tutorial, but I'm thinking it should be documented somewhere. Although I'm confident in my ability to write clear descriptions, this isn't something I have to write myself. Is anyone interested in helping me author it?
There is a very brief Help in the About dialog.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 15, 2012, 18:11:21
I'll probably steal the Sign dialog and screen titles for my mod :)
I'll be sure to post the fonts as soon as they are finalized, in case you want to use them.

I already use Format 3, although it's not set by default. I think you should use 4 and reject levels with 3, showing a link to my mod. I would do the same with 4.
That sounds like a good plan. I think of our mods as parallels, but using the same number could cause confusion.

Seeing sides of adjacent screens is good, but it should be very clear that they belong to different screens. You did it like in KSLC and it's inconvenient for me there, because a simple line isn't enough. Except that, the rearrangement doesn't make sense to me yet, because the ini editor is still almost the same size as it was. In original layout "tabs" could be placed where the background colors are now, so they would go like: "tileset", "Ini editor", "World dialog", "Warps dialog" "Signs dialog", ...
I'm sticking with the layout I've got. I like being able to see everything at once; tiles, ini, and dialogue. I agree that the 1 pixel lines separating the previews from the canvas are inadequate, but the rounded corners make a big difference.

There is a very brief Help in the About dialog.
Yeah, I discovered that right after making the post about help contents. I never would have looked there for help. I've decided that the context bar ought to be enough guidance, but I haven't ruled out making a help manual yet.

Edit: I had planned to post my fonts now, but when I used the large font it looked awful (see attachment.) I was trying to avoid antialiasing, but it looks like I have no choice.


Edit: 16Apr2012: Stayed up all night programming again. Finished the new version of the large font, looks fantastic so you can ignore the hideous one below. Finished implementing the Title object. Discovered that I had broken the red Artifact in the last release, so I fixed that. Have attached a zip with 5 text-blitter fonts for public use.

Will make new release after adding a Title object section to the features demonstration. Then, back to focusing on the editor mod.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on April 16, 2012, 14:16:49
I'll make a tool to create a TextBlitter picture out of normal font.

^That's^ one of the first things I set out to do. My solution was going to be an object that would cause layer 2 to be redrawn between layers 6 and 7. Like the Warp object, you'd just use it any where on a screen to make it work. The tool COs are built on couldn't handle it. Most tools that allow you to draw from a tileset can only paste into the background. It's certainly possible, but doing it fast enough is a problem.
Backdrops in layer 2 would do it. I mean the actual MMF layer. I draw the map this way.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 17, 2012, 08:07:49
I've released version 1.2.ego.5 of this Knytt Stories mod. You can get it in the opening post. The Title object is the biggest addition. There is also a 300% zoom for people with monitor resolutions over 1800px wide. And, I fixed the red artifact which I broke in the last release --without a custom graphic it was invisible. The flag checking code has been tweaked to reduce delay between screens.

Spoiler: Title object details (click to show/hide)

@ GrayFace: The text-blitter has a built in tool, but I found it difficult to work with, especially since it can't force True-Type fonts to act like raster fonts and I was originally avoiding antialiasing. I'll try your layer 2 backdrop suggestion. I haven't looked at the issue since my first month with MMF2. Thanks for the advice. It seems so obvious now. This will take a lot of restructuring though. I'll want to move everything that's already on Layer 2 to Layer 3 (Note to people who are not Gray Face: These are layers in the game engine not the layers you build levels with. The Item Bar is in layer 2 for example.) But, it will be worth it. *gives a star for great idea*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on April 17, 2012, 08:17:01
Backdrops are displayed under objects, so there's no need to move stuff to layer 3.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 17, 2012, 08:24:14
But, I want layer 7 objects to appear in front of the foreground tiles. And they will need to be moved behind any layer 2 object that was created before them, unless they have their own layer to exist on.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on April 17, 2012, 10:02:35
Then you can move them behind the lowest of 2nd layer objects, like it's done with umbrella normally.
Is flag warps speed-up relevant to normal KS warps too?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 17, 2012, 12:56:28
I'm so fantastically pleased with the work you guys have been doing to increase the usability of Knytt Stories.  Especially since it seems the knyttwadf game will be basically limited to black tilesets.
:hiddenstar: :hiddenstar: :hiddenstar: :hiddenstar: :hiddenstar: :hiddenstar: :hiddenstar: :hiddenstar: :hiddenstar:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on April 17, 2012, 12:59:30
  Especially since it seems the knyttwadf game will be basically limited to black tilesets.
are you assuming that from the screenshots? i find it very unlikely
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 17, 2012, 13:37:40
@ GrayFace: I just sped up the flag warps a bit. Originally the game read in all possible flag warp positions, e.g. FlagWarpX(A). With my addition of a Flag(All) and Artifact flag warping the game had to read in 8 positions from the ini and then check if the locations were Artifact dependent. The game could only do one flag warp, so I just changed it to read in positions after it knew which ones it needed. It's a small improvement, but with all the additions I've made, I need all the speed-ups I can get to keep it playing like the original, especially during room changes. I mostly mentioned it, so that people would know what was up if I created a bug that didn't show up in my tests.

@ Headgrinder: Nifflas only wanted black tiles for his levels, but Knytt/WaDF supports color tiles. When it was first announced I felt like making this mod would have little point, but as details came out I realized Knytt/WaDF is going to be different enough from Knytt Stories that it wont kill all KS level production.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 18, 2012, 00:11:10
I think I knew it supported color, but as you say, it seems very different from KS.  It seems the tilesets will be less used and object use will be more prominent.  I suppose I could get use to it, but frankly I'm not much in to wadf anyway.  I could never get use to the ball physics.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 18, 2012, 07:29:46
Exciting News! Foreground tiles are working. With a nudge from Headgrinder and advice from Grayface, I revisited this improvement. It was surprisingly easy to implement, and it will be even easier to use. The way it works is layer 2 is drawn between layers 6 and 7 when you add the instruction:
[x1000y1000]
Overlay=True
Expect to have it in the next release. Which I'll probably do after more testing --it was too easy, there must be a disaster hiding somewhere.

Originally I wanted to activate overlays with an object, but when I started working on it I realized that would have caused the same flash you get from objects and custom objects as well as a bit of slow down since layer 2 would've been drawn twice. Using an ini instruction is fast and free of flashes.

Edit: There's an interesting issue that comes with moving objects to another MMF2 layer, they don't interact with anything on the other layers. Enemies can't kill Juni and they ignore the collision mask. I'm not sure what to do about it. It opens the door for level designers to make many mistakes while using the Overlay, but it also presents a lot of cool possibilities. For instance, you can put a Sign on layer 7 with Sign Areas on a lower layer. This allows you to put the Sign wherever it looks best without worrying if the player can hit it. Until I decide what to do, I adjusted the code so that layer 7 objects are only moved if the Overlay is active; meaning this wont mess up any old levels.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on April 18, 2012, 10:20:53
The foreground layer thing is really starting to make me consider porting my in progress level to your mod...
It really sucks that both your mod and Gray's mod have such good features, and I want to use some from both mods so it's really hard to decide.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on April 18, 2012, 11:06:12
I'm thinking of making an easy way to convert layers into overlay objects, but implementation is problematic.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 18, 2012, 18:27:06
@ Raicuparta: I agree that my mod is pretty irresistible, but if you planned to use Ks Ex's Template Objects then I don't think you should switch. GrayFace and I borrow each others ideas, but TOs are something my mod will never have. Then, the fact that you can use Lua scripts in KS Ex means that if it doesn't have something you want you can probably add it.

@ GrayFace: I had originally tried to draw layer 2 to an object, but I didn't get anywhere with that approach. However, my efforts were far from exhaustive. Considering that your mod has optional rendering orders, I bet it will be a bear of a task. Good luck.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on April 18, 2012, 19:19:56
My plan is to do it in the editor. In the game I've used an extension that makes screenshots. I can make 2 screenshots, one on black background, the other on white. Based on them I can figure out semi-transparency and original color of pixels, and create a .png in the end. I did similar things with PNG in Delphi, but MMF2 extensions are written in C++, so I'll probably have to use a dll made in Delphi if I set out to do it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on April 21, 2012, 18:54:08
A bug: map is reset when triggers spawn new objects. Open the map with M and then execute a trigger to see.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 22, 2012, 10:38:11
Nice catch GrayFace. All the map tiles move to the spawn location. :oops:

Progress Report: I've been making graphics for the Level Editor mod. The dialogue section needs lots of buttons. Before that I changed this mod to format 4, and built in a link to GrayFace's mod for format 3 levels.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 24, 2012, 23:33:01
Any idea when a beta of the level editor will be out? 
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 25, 2012, 18:02:32
To answer Headgrinder's question...

Progress Report: I have 1.5 of the 8 tabs in the script dialogue finished. Signs with Titles are complete. Warps with Flag Warps are partially complete. Originally I had planned finish all the tabs before releasing it. But, I suppose I could make releases as the tabs are completed. I'll have to finish the Warps tab at least. In the mean time, here's a picture of the whole editor...
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: BloxMaster on April 25, 2012, 19:57:43
That is amazing, not much else to say. :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 26, 2012, 03:46:26
Oh ho ho ho dude!  That is making me quite happy!  :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: B-Man on April 26, 2012, 05:45:51
Nice work! Lots of useful little additions there, particularly the on-screen sign editor and the preview of adjacent tiles. :)

Is there a possibility of viewing the diagonally-adjacent tiles as well? I realize that would require changing the way your editor looks now, but that might be a handy option to include if you get the time.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 27, 2012, 08:14:05
I've released a beta of the editor in the opening post. Be sure to read the tips posted there. Warning! Levels are saved as Format 4. Until I release the next version of my KS mod you will have to set it back to 2 in a text editor. Also, I'm sure there will be bugs, so back levels up before trying them in it.

@ B-Man: I don't see what benefit diagonal previews could have. It would make it harder to see where the canvas ends and the previews begin.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on April 27, 2012, 10:03:48
Diagonal previews would also make it slower.
Bug report: Warp Up/Down/Left/Right show wrong absolute coordinates of screen. They count from the current screen instead of the screen where unmodified warp leads.
The fact that you always have to press Enter to apply changes to signs and otherwise you lose them when you switch to anything else on the panel is inconvenient and would cause lots of troubles.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 27, 2012, 15:51:04
Thanks for the feedback GrayFace. I know hitting enter all the time isn't perfect, but I can't think of a better way to handle adding changes. The dialogue isn't meant to be a script editor in itself. It's to assist with writing to the pad. Adding things to the pad isn't permanent until you save, so it isn't a big deal to commit to everything you do in the dialogue.

Oops! I thought about the Warp destination thing before writing them, but I totally forgot by the time I got there. :oops:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on April 27, 2012, 16:16:21
Some times pressing F3 to open the script editor makes it open and close immediately. I could reproduce it by opening and closing it a bunch of times with the clickable button, and then after the problem starts happening, it just keeps happening, but always only when using the F3 key.
Scrolling between screens is now significantly slower with the border previews, is there a chance we get an option to disable it?

Opening the script editor and then closing it makes the mouse wheel stop working on tileset, music, etc selection.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 27, 2012, 18:23:06
Tracking down that F3 bug was an adventure.
Spoiler: The F3 saga (click to show/hide)

I must admit I never tested the mouse wheel. I've been making this on a laptop. I haven't changed how that works, but I wondered why it didn't need a universal listener** the way mouse clicks do. I guess it does.

**There is one instruction that listens for mouse clicks, which sets an internal variable the other parts of the program query. Multiple listeners for the same mouse/keyboard event tend to interfere with each other unpredictably. The wheel probably worked before only because the program was smaller.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 28, 2012, 15:31:52
This is really fantastic!  

I did find a small bug.  When you copy and paste, the tileset suddenly reports a fully transparent tileset found.  You just have to switch tilesets back and forth to get rid of it, so its super minor, but there.

I'm getting ready to try out the overlay.  Yeah!

edit: which I can't seem to get to work.  It's layer 2 that is moved to between 6 and 7 right?  And the command is overlay=true?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 28, 2012, 18:09:55
I haven't released the version of the KS mod that includes overlays yet Headgrinder. I was working towards a release today, but switched to tracking down bugs in the editor. Thanks for the tileset-checker-false-positive tip. I'm getting that from the "Show Custom Objects" feature too.

Progress Report: I've been fortifying the internal messaging system of the level editor, and fixing other bugs as I discover them. I'll make an editor release once I've tested everything. I plan to make a KS mod release as soon as I update Features Demonstration with an overlay example.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 28, 2012, 22:00:51
Oh, and I love the adjacent tile preview. That is so freaking handy for continuing ground and background tiles.  I'd be using this exclusively from now on if that is all you had done.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Firecat on April 28, 2012, 23:15:22
The "Delete Screen" function doesn't seem to work, you might want to fix that.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 28, 2012, 23:36:24
I've made a new release of the KS mod, KS12e5b. This version includes the Overlay ability and an animated location indicator for the map.

It turns out that most of the editor bugs come from 2 things; sending instructions faster than the program can handle, and a bad focus handler in the script tabs. When the script is closed it leaves focus in a state where some keystrokes are multiplied. Therefore, instructions that toggle stuff like F3 and Ctrl+O would be ineffective. Some instructions that cause the map screen to redraw would restart the process midway causing tileset checker errors. The tileset checker uses multiple program cycles which is why it is vulnerable. Still working on it.

@Firecat: Already fixed, thanks for the report. It was just a silly mistake. The menu sent a command "erase", while the map editor looked for a command "delete". :/
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on April 29, 2012, 00:21:20
I simply removed all pauses, the process is done in one cycle in my editor and it works better this way. I think you should do the same, but postpone adjacent screens rendering to the next one or 4 cycles. During that cycles user would be able to change screen and so the editor would probably be as fast as it is without previews (only the previews wouldn't show up immediately). I remember doing one or two other optimizations to speed up the editor.
I recall the major one was removing overhead of World.ini loading and finding current screen in it. I tried to optimize minimap, but don't remember if I was able to or not. I probably wasn't able to speed up tiles and objects rendering in any way. I made it so that empty screens are loaded fast, if the minimap is also mostly empty then empty screens are loaded very fast.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 29, 2012, 02:23:08
@ Grayface: My plan has always been to add the script editor, and then read through your editor to find all of your improvements. I may just go ahead and read through it now, because the CPU usage when it's doing nothing is ridiculous. You fixed that didn't you? Delaying the previews a cycle or 4 is a great Idea.

OK, I have re-released the editor mainly to fix bugs. This has a more robust internal command structure. Tilesets are prevented from loading during validation cycles. The focus controls have been altered so that keystrokes don't duplicate and it doesn't capture keystrokes when it isn't the active window. One actual bonus is the ability to change the color of the line between the canvas and the previews.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on April 29, 2012, 09:31:42
The link to download the editor doesn't seem to work.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 29, 2012, 19:17:35
Editor link works now. Should have checked it. I spelled ego with a lowercase e on the new file by mistake.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on April 29, 2012, 22:28:59
Are you planing on having multiple styles for the titles? I think they are an excellent addition but would just look bad on most scenarios. What I don't specifically like is the black background and the antialiased font for the main titles. The second problem isn't a big deal, but it would be really cool if we could at least choose color and transparency for both font and background, if that is even possible.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on April 30, 2012, 02:18:15
I tried to make a large raster font for the titles but it looked awful. The style of the original sign font does not lend itself to large non-antialiased letters. I did my best to go with something neutral, readable, and true to the original game. As for changing the colors and styles... I just looked and it's possible to add a font map at run time, so I guess I can add that ability. You'll have to make your own images like the ones I've posted in this thread.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on April 30, 2012, 09:41:29
I may just go ahead and read through it now, because the CPU usage when it's doing nothing is ridiculous. You fixed that didn't you?
In my case it was happening when it's minimized, because I unchecked "Run when minimized" in project options.
It's easy to make it use minimal CPU when inactive by putting all code into a group that is enabled only if the window is active (which I check with my extension). Also the selection square should be hidden when the window is deactivated. That's what I've just done for the next KSEx version.
Edit: Also had to move World.ini editor out of that group and only use Activate/Deactivate group when state changes between active and inactive, at first I did it on every cycle.

Delaying the previews a cycle or 4 is a great Idea.
I think 1 cycle would work fine.

Edit: Now I've also decided to make adjacent screens preview.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on May 04, 2012, 23:52:49
I added the ability to change Title/Subtitle graphics. You'll have to make them monospace with specific letter deminsions, but if you're a pixel purist *I'm looking at you, Raicuparta* or just want to customize everything, then we're one step closer. This will be in the next release of the KS mod with details on usage.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on May 05, 2012, 18:47:39
There's one thing I really missed in your mod when playing toenail's level. It's quicker death. In my mod with proper config death takes less time and there's no white flash. By default there is white flash and death takes as much time as in original KS.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on May 06, 2012, 07:04:15
I understand the appeal of quicker restarts, but I don't think it fits with my goals. Playing The Machine or even Shipwrecked on my mod should be identical to playing on KS 1.2.1. At best, I could make it a menu option.

I experience the same thing when I play with the original KS. First, I have to scroll through the pages to find the level I want. Then, I can't zoom! How, did I live like this?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on May 06, 2012, 10:50:06
Yes, I remember I kept 2 or 3 (I think 4 at most) pages of levels back then and now with the mod I'm so lazy that I have 12.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on May 06, 2012, 22:16:38
There's a bug with flags. They never stop executing. I found the culprit and fixed it. The editor is still being buggy. I thought I had eliminated the multiple execution of commands, but pasting in the script pad repeats. Also, the script dialogue has stopped responding to changes made in the pad. :sigh: MMF2 is so difficult to work with. I'm very much ready to wash my hands of it. I'll finish these projects first though.

Edit: Hooray, all known bugs in the editor seem to be fixed. :) I added the ability to choose your default level format. Levels for my mod are now format 4 to prevent other versions of KS from trying to open them. Changing the default format is to ease the process of using my editor to make official KS compatible levels. Just remember to change it back if you decide to use mod features.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on May 08, 2012, 12:38:56
I would attempt to give you a star for every update you give, but I don't want your ego to get too big.  har har.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on May 08, 2012, 13:25:12
Those recent fixes, are they in the currently available version?

A while ago I announced that I would be porting "Time Fixes Everything" to Gray's mod. Turns out some of the features I chose Gra's mod for are actually in Ego's mod instead, and vice-versa. I think I messed it up after playing the demo levels of both mods one after the other and also because Ego's new objects show up in Grey's mod if Grey's new objects are disabled in the options. So I'm back to analyzing both mods and deciding which I could make best use of.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on May 08, 2012, 23:43:41
@ Raicuparta: Sorry about my objects showing up in GF's editor. I originally didn't intend to make an editor so I had to add the icons to the standard folders to use them in existing editors. GrayFace has been good enough to implement his editor in a way that it can co-exist with my mod, and truthfully there's no reason you can't use his editor to make levels for my mod. Also no, I haven't released the any of the recently mentioned fixes. I might as well get on with it.

Edit: I got on with it. The latest stable builds of the game and the editor are available in the top post. The Game mod includes a fix for flag warps and the ability to customize Title/Subtitle fonts. I forgot to include instructions for custom fonts so I'll include that here. The editor is more stable, but is far from complete. A new feature in this release is the ability to set your preferred format. This will ease the process of using my editor to make official KS compatible levels. In the Tools menu select "Change default format", then set it to 2.

Spoiler: custom fonts (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: toenail on May 09, 2012, 09:05:49
Apparently, there are no objects in bank 19 anymore.

And when I try the new editor, the screens Gets mixed up for some reason.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: GrayFace on May 09, 2012, 19:26:57
At best, I could make it a menu option.
Well I should definitely make it a menu option, as well as a few other options. :) It wasn't a good idea to make people edit Data\UserScript.lua to change such things.

Raicuparta, what are the features that you want to use in your level?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on May 09, 2012, 19:52:25
@ toenail: Thanks for discovering the missing files, toenail. I built this release on the last one which was also missing them. They apparently got lost between ego-beta-5 and ego-beta-5b. I've re-upped the current build with the missing images, but if you already have the images from a previous release then you shouldn't need to re-download.

I've tested the current editor by downloading, unzipping, etc. I'm not experiencing any problems. Can you describe what you're experiencing, and the steps you took to make it happen. Maybe post a screenshot.

By the way, thanks for using my editor to make a level. I'm stuck at the mansion.

@GrayFace: Writing to a lua script certainly isn't something a casual player is going to do. The main problem I see with it is that you have to go look up how to do it before you can use it. I'm guilty of this myself with the mappable keys. I'm pondering a better solution for that. Anyhow, I tried out quick deaths (no white, timer 50) and I'm really not sure if it's something I want to implement. The burst of white can sting sometimes, but without it there's no punctuation between lives. It feels like you teleport back to the save point rather than die.

Edit: I forgot to mention a few things about this release. The editor mod scrolls faster when holding down the arrow keys. I'm not sure if the mouse wheel bug is fixed. I'm without a proper mouse at the moment.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: toenail on May 10, 2012, 09:21:53
Hello,

I redownloaded the latest version just to make sure.
I am still having strange behaviour.
It happens when I try adding a savepoint. I haven't tested further.

here is a link to an video I made of the issue.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24597379/test.swf

By the way, in the mension,some of the cats might be inside, others outside.

EDIT : apparently, it happens for all object layers for me (4 and above)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on May 10, 2012, 18:33:47
@ Toenail: The link you provided 404'd me, but the description was helpful. I know what's going wrong now. When I postponed the preview drawing, I didn't set the map.bin back to the room being edited. Yikes! Sorry for the blunder. I'll have it fixed in a hurry...

Edit: It's fixed. Get it in the opening post. Incidentally this solved a bug that no one knew about. Voids with previews at the edge had the potential to show wrong numbers for tilesets being shown.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: toenail on May 10, 2012, 20:33:37
Apparently, there was an error in the link.
I only have my phone to access Internet so it is not always easy to check what I type.
The extension should have been swf. I don't know what happened. i am glad you found the error anyway.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on May 10, 2012, 22:03:28
I hate to bug you with this, but would you mind adding a version number to the .zip so I can be sure I'm updating with the most recent file?  Silly perhaps, considering all your doing, but it seems helpful.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on May 11, 2012, 19:17:13
...would you mind adding a version number to the .zip...

I know my version handling needs improvement. I'd put the editor's version in it's .zip, but I haven't decided how to number the editor yet. Heads up, when the game gets out of beta I intend to change the name to KS++ so the 1.2.ego.number.letter will disappear.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: toenail on May 14, 2012, 11:23:54
With the lastest version of the editor (and the one before I think), the shotcuts for flood fill do not work anymore (shift+left click).
Is this an error or did you remove it ? Since, the help does not explain it anymore, I am not sure which it is.
If possible, I would love to have it back in the editor as it saves a lot of time.

Also, I have a question for the map powerup. Is there a way to hide screens in it ?
If I use the MapX / MapY, the position of Juni is correctly displayed on the map at the specified location. however, the screen itself is visible as an empty not visited rectangle.
Maybe you already explained this somewhere but I could not find it.

Thanks
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on May 14, 2012, 12:38:48
Yeah, I was having trouble with flood fill yesterday, only instead of not working, it was filling with the wrong tile.   O_o

And because it needs to be said again, this editor rocks my socks.   C)p
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on May 14, 2012, 18:03:20
@ Toenail: I must have broken it. I removed the instructions in the help>about in anticipation of a working context bar.

Progress report: Been working on the Shift dialogue. Populating the droplists will take some time to code. I'm afraid screen changes will be slow due to all the searches this tab will have to perform.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Pie_Sniper on May 14, 2012, 19:21:35
Progress report: Been working on the Shift dialogue. Populating the droplists will take some time to code. I'm afraid screen changes will be slow due to all the searches this tab will have to perform.
You might consider waiting on any tab-specific setup until the tab is actually open.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on May 14, 2012, 20:52:01
@ Pie_Sniper: That is how it works. I meant scrolling rooms with the Shift tab open may be slow. I'm not sure that speed is important, but I'm trying to write all things in a fast way. Though often times, I have no way of knowing what is a fast method since I don't know what MMF2 is doing behind the scenes.

So, I solved the fill/replace bug that toenail and Headgrinder found. The original code relies on a rather odd statement to decide which tileset to write from. The fact that the tileset tabs now change color to match the background color breaks the statement. I had fixed it for the normal draw method, but had overlooked it in the special draw methods.

I don't think the fill/replace is a big enough issue for me to make a release just for it, especially since I'm in the middle of writing something and I don't know what problems might arise from that half-baked code.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: toenail on May 15, 2012, 11:56:04
Hi,

I have a new bug with a very strange behaviour when mixing coin shifts + artifacts + custom artifact image.
When the screen contains an artifact, for example Artifact2#2 (bank 19 / obj 159)
if the artifact has a custom design, for example your cat animation)
and if the screen contains a shift with a coin value, for exemple ShiftCoin(A)=2
Then the shift tile displays the custom artifact image corresponding to the coin number and the artifact is not displayed anymore.
But I can't get the artifact at the shift position. It is still at its designated place and you can catch it.
I tried several shift option (visible=false...). It does not change anything.

To make it clearer, here are 3 screenshots :
- in the editor
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24597379/bug/editor.png
- in game with custom graphic
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24597379/bug/ingamecustom.png
- in game without custom graphic
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24597379/bug/ingamestandard.png

I saw it first with artifact2. I tried quickly with artifact1 and it appears to be the same problem.
Strangely, if you have several artifact on the same screen (mixing 1 and 2)
This is very strange. Hope you can fix it. It should not be a problem for me as the shift is higher than 7 currently. I only put 1 to test the level.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on May 15, 2012, 19:30:21
^That^ blows my mind. It's completely crazy that all these elements together should reveal such a bug, but I tried it and it is exactly as you say! Thanks for putting so much effort into the error report. *gives a star* This ought to be fun to track down.
Edit: It was something rather simple. With override custom object the original object is still there, just invisible. To pair the 2 objects I've reserved a space in every object to hold an ID. The problem was that I used this space in the Shift object to hold the coin number. It would have happened to any CO sharing the same ID as the ShiftCoin number, not just artifacts.

Edit: 16May2012: I've released a new version of the editor. The Shift tab is complete. The context bar is working for the map editor, but it only describes objects in bank zero. I would very much like to accept a volunteer for writing the rest of the object descriptions. Any takers? Get the editor beta 2.2 in the opening post.

Edit: 18MAy2012 Progress Report: Fixed a problem in the editor and made a release yesterday. That was version ego.2.2b, so you may already have it. If the Sign tab breaks on empty rooms you should update. In other news, the Trigger tab is complete (unreleased) meaning I'm halfway through the dialogue portion. Four more tabs and the editor will be complete. :)

Edit: 20May2012: :( I was hoping this wouldn't happen this year, but it looks like MMF2 and I are parting ways for the summer again. The KS mod is basically complete. I'm debating the addition of custom Sign fonts. Also, I was implementing an interface for mapping keys. With luck I'll get that finished before I lose access to MMF2. The editor mod has bugs I haven't been able to reproduce intentionally, so I haven't been able to track them down. With the release I'm making now, most of the room based scripts can be edited with the script dialogue. I'll be using both programs this summer, so hopefully any bugs will be found by Autumn when programming recommences.

Get the editor version beta ego.2.3  in the opening post.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: toenail on May 20, 2012, 15:44:57
Thank you for spending so much time on your editor.
I used the previous version and the improvements from the standard version are amazing.
If I can make a request, I would love to have a simple way to choose/verify the coordinate of the current screen to be displayed on the map.

Also, I have in some cases a strange bug. Sometimes, the sign tab does not display messages for sign2 or higher.
I have tried targerting the cause but I could not find out why.
If you take a look at my level, go to screen x994y1007 and you will see that sign2(B) is not found by the editor.
It is not a big deal.


Appart from that, I love you mod. I know you are not planning on modifying it further. From my point of view, I am missing 2 things which would have helped me in my level design:
-hidding a screen from the map upgrade
-adding the custom character for the flags

Now that my level is finished (hopefully not too buggy this time), I will take a break before trying to create a new one.
In any case, thank you for your hard work.

update : the tabs on the latest version (2.3) do not work for me. The sign tab is OK but the warp tab displays the sign tab, and then all the others are wrongly placed.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Headgrinder on May 20, 2012, 23:07:43
Yeah, I'm amazed at all you've done to expand the versatility of knytt stories.   I haven't said it in a while, but I've always wished for a intellectual sequel to knytt stories perhaps simply called "Stories" which would free the mechanics of the game from being only about knytts.  You've pretty much done everything I would have wanted!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on May 21, 2012, 01:52:02
the tabs on the latest version (2.3) do not work for me. The sign tab is OK but the warp tab displays the sign tab, and then all the others are wrongly placed.
Blast! I have to break that part in order to work on it. Silly isn't it? Sometimes I forget to fix it again.

I love you mod. I know you are not planning on modifying it further. From my point of view, I am missing 2 things which would have helped me in my level design:
-hidding a screen from the map upgrade
-adding the custom character for the flags
You asked about hiding rooms before and I completely forgot to respond. There isn't a way to program it to hide a room, but if you place the room at least 13 screens away from the edge of the level, then it will never be seen on the map. I like to put them 20 screens away so I can hold shift and scroll twice to get there.

As for the character checking thing, I considered it, but I decided that designers could either switch on a flag at the same time and check that, or shift to a version of the map specifically designed for that character.

Also, I have in some cases a strange bug. Sometimes, the sign tab does not display messages for sign2 or higher.
I'll look into it.

@ Headgrinder: Almost every graphic can be changed now, which was one of my goals. Although, I'm still making stories about Juni and the Knytt universe. I'm excited to see what level designers will do with less limitations and more game play options.

Edit: editor beta Ego 2.3b is out to fix tab alignment error mentioned here

Edit: editor beta Ego 2.3c is out to fix Sign error found by Toenail. I'm still getting false positives for transparent tiles in Tileset A when pasting. I tried to fortify against it, but I'm still not sure how/when it happens. There was an error that caused the Level Manager to open twice. I added a fix for that. It looks like capturing menu commands in the Global Events area was a bad idea, and is the source of many of my woes.

Edit: Hello again. I've just upgraded the editor to beta Ego 2.3d. When I put in extra measures to prevent the tilesets from being re-loaded during the validation cycle, I disabled the preview bars from loading their tilesets. I have now separated the code. After the summer I'm going to move everything out of the global events section, because I'm more and more sure it's at the root of these problems.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on May 23, 2012, 03:08:34
Big level editor update, I've given it heart surgery. Its tendency to duplicate menu commands, especially when called by keyboard shortcuts, should no longer be an issue. I said I'd try this after the summer hiatus, but it was driving me crazy as I was using it. I've also finished implementing the Shift Target fields of the Script dialogue. I completely forgot to before.

At this point the to-do list for the editor is:

Get the latest editor in the opening post.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on May 23, 2012, 11:18:13
I still have the problem where the mouse wheel will stop working for choosing tileset/gradient/etc. I think when I reported this before I said that it was after opening and closing the scrip editor, but now it just seems like it always happens when I run it and I have to reset to fix it. I know you weren't planning on wasting a lot more time with the editor now but I really wanted to use this editor for my next level and this doesn't help...
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on May 23, 2012, 22:54:01
I figured it might still be broken. I didn't do any thing to fix the wheel, I just fixed problems that could arise from closing the script panel. I think I know what the issue is, but I don't have a wheel on this computer. I'll see if I can borrow one.

Edit: The confirmation window was causing some mouse wheel issues. It's the thing that pops up to confirm closing without saving, pick go to coordinates, or change the default format. Focus wasn't being restored properly. These issues are fixed now with beta ego 3.0b. If there are other wheel bugs I have yet to discover them.

Edit: 25May2012: Drats! The undo command is still doubling when the map is active. Be careful undoing because it can crash the program. Also, the script pad can capture paste commands when the editor is not the active window. I'm really not sure how either of these can happen with all the safe guards I've put in place to prevent them. I'll work on it, but I can't promise I'll fix them before work is suspended in 3 days.

Edit: later that day: I conquered the paste issue with the script pad. It takes a global event to force the scintilla object to recognize when the application loses focus. I've added safe guards to the undo routine and all menu commands that rely on "loops" (MMF loops are like function calls mated with normal loops, but the program doesn't necessarily wait for them to complete,) but I couldn't reliably produce the error, so I can't reliably test the fix. I did discover an error with redo while trying to break undo, so I know progress has been made somewhere.

Edit: The next morning: I've discovered how to break the undo reliably --minimize the window. I looked it up on clickteam forums and apparently there's an internal bug that can be overcome by running while minimized. However, I've tried that and it didn't help. What's worse is if I open Looki's source, build it with the version of MMF I'm using, and minimize; everything is fine. This means there must be some factor I can control that causes this. For now, don't minimize.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on June 02, 2012, 11:26:03
The summer hiatus has begun. I'm releasing the last build of the editor beta ego 3.1. The only real difference is that it automatically selects the last level edited at start up. Normally the levels I edit are near the top of the list, but recently I was working on a level by the Nifforum and I found looking for it every time I opened the editor tedious. I've used it quite a bit, and I haven't seen any stability issues. I find it raises my productivity considerably, so I guess the project has been worthwhile.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on June 02, 2012, 12:52:06
Thanks for the update.
Chrome is warning me about the editor zip, telling me it can be dangerous. This didn't happen with previous versions, have any idea what this could be about? Or could it be a new chrome feature?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on June 02, 2012, 16:12:08
Chrome is warning me about the editor zip, telling me it can be dangerous. This didn't happen with previous versions, have any idea what this could be about? Or could it be a new chrome feature?

I've heard Chrome marks every executable it encounters as "potentially malicious" unless it has been individually whitelisted.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on June 06, 2012, 14:12:18
Ok, really weird problem... "Test Level" now opens Knytt instead of Knytt Stories? Can someone test this, maybe it's some crazy problem on my side. Also the title of the window is always just "map".
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on June 06, 2012, 15:39:26
To fix the test level feature open the EditorSettings.Temp in the Worlds folder. Change the executable line to the proper name. I may have messed it up somehow, but I don't remember.
Code: [Select]
[ego]
Executable=Knytt Stories Ego.exe

As for the title, I use it to print messages to myself while programming. Currently it tells which window has focus. You should also be able to make it say, "ini," "tab," and "none." The current version wasn't supposed to be a release version, but I sailed past the cutoff date without noticing it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on June 17, 2012, 13:03:52
To fix the test level feature open the EditorSettings.Temp in the Worlds folder. Change the executable line to the proper name. I may have messed it up somehow, but I don't remember.
Code: [Select]
[ego]
Executable=Knytt Stories Ego.exe
I should have mentioned this before, but everything was ok in the EditorSettings file, that wasn't the problem. I just redownloaded KS and your mod and everything seems fine now.

Is there a way to have multiple triggers in one sign? I mean if I have Sign(A), Sign2(A), all the way to Sign5(A), could I have a sign trigger in Sign2(A) and another in Sign3(A)?

Another question, when I use a trigger to spawn an object, how do I choose in which layer it is created?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on June 17, 2012, 17:42:45
To fix the test level feature open the EditorSettings.Temp in the Worlds folder. Change the executable line to the proper name. I may have messed it up somehow, but I don't remember.
Code: [Select]
[ego]
Executable=Knytt Stories Ego.exe
I should have mentioned this before, but everything was ok in the EditorSettings file, that wasn't the problem. I just redownloaded KS and your mod and everything seems fine now.
I don't know what was going on there then. I checked my editor settings file and it said "Knytt Stories Ego.exe" and it worked even though I renamed the executable "Knytt Stories.exe". My guess is MMF2 uses a windows host function to locate the correct program, and Windows will guess at the solution when there's a problem.

Is there a way to have multiple triggers in one sign? I mean if I have Sign(A), Sign2(A), all the way to Sign5(A), could I have a sign trigger in Sign2(A) and another in Sign3(A)?
Sorry, there's only one Shift and one Trigger per Sign. However, you might get more Shifts by spawning a Sign area to the screen. When the player is touching 2 different Sign areas only one sign will show. It's possible you could use this to your advantage. I should mention that Sign A will always call Shift A and/or Trigger A. There's no way to change that either.

Another question, when I use a trigger to spawn an object, how do I choose in which layer it is created?
The spawn will appear on the same layer as the Trigger. Within the layer it is just below the Trigger regardless of its xy coordinates.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on June 20, 2012, 15:45:52
I think I found a bug. I'm trying to use timed shifts, and everything works fine until I try to use a shift that goes to a different screen. If a timed shift points to a different screen, Juni will show up in that screen after the given time but will start falling through solid ground, only stopping if there's something deadly in her path. During this, it is impossible to control her movement. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, maybe it's really a bug.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on June 20, 2012, 19:29:32
Wow. That sounds like a bug. Hmm. If it is, there's nothing I can do about it at this time. *Looks into it...*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on June 20, 2012, 19:38:29
Yeah, you had announced the hiatus before so I'm not really expecting any of this to be fixed too soon. I'll just keep going and hope the mod has been updated by the time I finish the level, which won't be for a few months.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on June 20, 2012, 23:10:13
It's a bug. The problem is that once a shift moves you to a new screen the shift object is destroyed. I put commands in the main program loop to turn off hiding on screen changes, but apparently they don't work. :/  Until the summer ends, I developed a work around for you.

On the screen with the animation put a second shift object where the character can't reach. The first shift which hides the character moves her to the second shift. The second shift moves her to the new screen on touch. If the character appears briefly in the wrong spot, you can use the first to change the character's sprite to a blank image, and the second to change it back. Or, you could put a CO cover on the second shift's location.

Sorry about the bugs. Not having access to MMF is a pain, but on the bright side, all my other projects are prospering because of it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on June 24, 2012, 12:43:13
Thanks a lot for the help, for the moment that workaround works perfectly well.

But I'm here to annoy you with yet another question. Some of the objects on bank 3 face Juni, for instance object 26. But if I try to replace the graphics of that object, it no longer faces Juni, just stands there. Is this a current limitation in your replacement system or am I doing something wrong? The instructions refer objects that face left and right but never mention it not working, so I'm pretty sure I'm doing something wrong... This is my code:
Code: [Select]
[Custom Object 80]
image=petman.png
bank=3
object=13
And "petman.png" is a 24x24 png.[/s]

What the hell. I had "object=13" for some reason. Everything is working correctly now -.-
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on June 25, 2012, 15:40:31
Found another problem, this time hopefully it's an actual problem.
When replacing Juni's animation, the last 2 frames from the falling animation seem to not be displayed. I even tried just using your Juni template as a CO for character replacement and you can see clearly that her hair behaves strangely because those last 2 frames aren't part of the animation.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on June 25, 2012, 20:18:56
I tested this myself using the image below, where the last frame of the falling animation is magenta. When falling in game, I saw the starting and ending frames. Maybe I mixed up some frames when I made the Juni template, but as far as I can tell the engine is running correctly.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on June 25, 2012, 20:54:41
Oh, I think I see the problem now. There aren't missing frames in the animation, quite the contrary.
The first 4 frames are supposed to play only once, and it loops from the 5th frame from that moment on. But using your replacement feature, it always loops the entire 12 frames. Sorry about the previously incorrect report, I think I assumed those 2 frames were missing for being separated from the rest, for some reason.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on June 26, 2012, 22:28:49
*Gasp* You're right! The first frames aren't supposed to repeat! I knew this, but I had completely forgotten about it until now. I will fix that when I can, so make your sprites accordingly in the meantime. I should have figured this out when I played Squareman's Adventure. The falling animation plays wrong, but the sprite sheet was made correctly.

Thanks for finding these bugs for me Raicuparta. I'll have to add you to the credits. *gives star*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Raicuparta on June 30, 2012, 00:34:14
I'm glad I can help perfect this already excellent mod, I really think it will make my level stand out.

Found some stuff that might be worth looking into:

Placing many objects by dragging the cursor makes it hang, or its just slower than the original editor. It is significantly slower, enough that trying to "draw" a line across the screen requires me to drag the cursor very slowly, or else there would be holes in that line. Not sure if I'm explaining it well enough though.

If there are many touch shifts that change the character sprite, the animation will spasm awkwardly a bit.
Say, if you make a shift "wall", so that when the player crosses it, the sprite changes. If you jump inside that "wall", you will notice problems in the animation (perhaps it keeps reseting to the initial falling animation?).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on July 02, 2012, 06:08:52
Placing many objects by dragging the cursor makes it hang, or its just slower than the original editor.
I've noticed this myself. I haven't looked into the reasons for it. This is something that didn't perform well in the original, and it's not surprising that it performs worse considering all that's been added.

If there are many touch shifts that change the character sprite, the animation will spasm awkwardly a bit.
If I'm remembering correctly, a custom character will always start in a standing position. I may even force the default character into a standing position. In most situations this shouldn't be a problem. Although I don't like it, allowing Shifts-on-touch to fire repeatedly is important to maintaining backwards compatibility. I do prevent repeated saves in such a scenario. I suppose this could be extended to character changes since they're a new feature. Ultimately, I never intended the character to be changed this way. Then again, Nifflas never intended for me to make Shipwrecked.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Medic-Ted on July 03, 2012, 04:59:33
Great Mod, egomassive !

I'm going to use it to remake my level LG-28.

Having problems with collecting objects though(even though there are so many ways).Or had problems actually, but let me explain.

I'm trying to replicate the Knytt scenario, where I need many different(in appearance) objects to win.And they must be obtainable in any order.

The most appealing(for the eyes) way I found was to change all 4 keys into 4 different sprites for my liking.I also had to change their appropriate sprites in the Item Bar, so you can see which of the 4 objects the player is missing like in Knytt.I realize I could possibly use the Golden creatures, but their Item Bar sprite can't be changed and I need to make objects very specific  to my level anyway.

But the problem with that is I don't want them to unlock locks, but let the player warp to the screen with the WIN tile.
Sadly the only way I could wrap my mind around that was to use 3 flags and the ALL flag code, which still leaves 1 key to be left out.
Somehow it is possible to use all four.I remember you did some crazy stuff in Shipwrecked.Still can't get my head around that and I've already gone with a different option, although it would be wonderful if people could make Knytt style levels.

So...I went with the Artifacts route(writing this I actually think about going with Coins XD).Sadly I can't have 4 different sprites this way, but I'm willing to sacrifice that for easier implemenation.

A very minor mistake I noticed - 42nd Coin object is missing a pixel. :)

Hope you continue developing this great mod.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on July 03, 2012, 10:53:18
To answer Medic-Ted's questions I put together a level that combines Artifacts and Flags to create a Knytt-like game mechanic. I made 4 kinds of ship parts, but it can easily be expanded to 6. Look in the World.ini for some notes.

Download Ship Parts (http://egomassive.com/temp/egomassive-ShipParts.knytt.bin) 328 KB
Edit: Made a small graphical update to this level. If the ship parts are white you have the old version.


...
A very minor mistake I noticed - 42nd Coin object is missing a pixel. :)
Hope you continue developing this great mod.
How weird, and thanks. I liked LG-28 when I played it long ago. I'll be looking forward to the remake.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: Talps on July 14, 2012, 11:48:43
I hope this hasn't been asked before, but does your key-mapping feature allow for compatibility with a gamepad?

Installed the mod a few days ago and I really like it; haven't tried any editing with it yet but I'll get to that soon; I'm seriously thinking of adapting 'Dragon Myth' to use it, as I can see artefacts, tints, titles and some other parts being useful. Have to try it out and decide how feasible that'd be first.

In fact, I've had an idea for a small level kicking around in my head for a while, and I might make that with the mod first to see how I get on.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories mod
Post by: egomassive on July 14, 2012, 17:58:45
The key-mapping feature only supports these keyboard keys:
Letters A-Z
Arrow Keys
and these symbols [ ] ; ' , . /

The software KS is built with doesn't have an easy way to map keys by default, and the nice extensions are for the expensive version only. The way I did it required me to hard code each key, so I only added the keys I felt were necessary to cover all western keyboard layouts. I think I can add joystick/gamepad controls if there's a demand, but don't gamepads usually come with their own key-mapping software? Incidentally, I had started work on a user interface for key-mapping, but I didn't have time to finish it before the summer hiatus.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 07, 2012, 23:53:40
It won't be long before work resumes. In anticipation I've made a new font image for Titles (see attachment.) Raicuparta's objections to antialiasing have weighed on my mind. I've come to agree they're bad for scaling. I've tested out the new font and it looks a lot better in game than I imagined it would.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on August 08, 2012, 00:26:30
That's gonna save me a some work, awesome. I have at least one project that will use that feature of your mod, and considering finding a clever way to use it in Time Fixes Everything, so that was already on my to do list.


Your bump reminded me of a bug I've been meaning to report for some time now, but it may not really be a mistake you made, just something you could prevent breaking the editor:
Some times I find duplicate entries on my world's ini. I'm not sure if these duplicate entries are created by some problem with the editor (I have no way of verifying that as it doesn't happen often) or if it was my own fault for mixing manual editing of the ini with your mod's utilities for that same purpose. But when these duplicate entries exist, the mod doesn't usually handle things well.

For instance, if I have this:
Code: [Select]
ShiftXMap(A)=5
ShiftXMap(A)=2
Your editor reads the first value, but writes to the second one. That is, if I put 7 in the editor's text field for X, the first value will become 7, but the second one will remain 2, and that will be the value read by the editor when I come back to that tab.
Not all the settings behave exactly like this, but I think they all do something weird when there's duplicates.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 08, 2012, 03:02:22
I don't know that there's anything I can do about ^that^. I'm using ini read/write extensions which are black boxes. You can't see their internal actions and you can't change them. As far as I know, none of the ini extensions can find duplicate entries, but at the same time I'm fairly sure none of them can make duplicates. At any rate, having duplicate entries will screw up the game engine too.

In the script dialogue if you hold shift when you press enter or click a check box, it will paste that item to the last location of the cursor in the script pad. This function is for people like me who like to keep their ini entries sorted. There is no reason to keep it orderly other than it's easier for people to read. You can easily make duplicates with shift+enter if you aren't careful.

For your information, this is how the editor handles loading and saving the World.ini.
Save when script panel is not open = does not change World.ini
Save when script panel is open = Saves World.ini
Select "Save Script" from confirmation dialogue = Saves World.ini
Open script panel = Loads World.ini
Select "Reload" from menu = Does not load World.ini
Select "Reload Script" from menu = Loads World.ini
Most changes made to script pad and script dialogue are saved to Temp.ini found in Worlds directory. They use this file to update each other.

Edit: Be careful about minimizing the program. Despite all my efforts minimizing can still cause command duplication and keystroke capturing in the background. Once these errors start all you can do is close the program and relaunch it. If you're cutting and pasting instructions in another editor, this could easily be the culprit. These issues have plagued every MMF based KS editor. There are probably fundamental errors in software that we can't fix.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: peterarev on August 08, 2012, 07:47:16
Hello Egomassive and All Knytters,

I've been enjoying Knytt Stories for a year or two now as one of my default game platforms. 

I am very proficient at the game and use of the editor and have dabbled in coding custom objects. 

I also have the editor always handy to both customize the levels to my taste and to learn to create my own.

Now there's Egomassive's Mod which offers the 2X screen which I like a lot and some convenient editor functions.

Then I try to play "The World is changing." by Toenail -- "Only for Knytt Ego's Mod."
http://knyttlevels.com/levels/toenail%20-%20The%20world%20is%20changing%20v1.0.1.knytt.bin

I can't get into that yellow box behind the old hermit to the east of the start point.  There's a Shift there, but it apparently requires a flag to access it and it doesn't show up yellow in the editor and I don't know where the coding for it is in World.ini or wherever.  (I found it once but can't now.)

And here's what the hermit says:
"Sign(A)=Gone to my new home. If you can't figure out the training by yourself then you don't deserve it!"

This has me very frustrated.  Is there a tutorial out there that will help me understand how this Mod and levels work?
I don't want to search all over the forum for bits and pieces.  Is there some documentation out there I can study?
Then I can make sense of all the forum posts and eventually create levels of my own. 

Thanks in advance,
Peter
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 08, 2012, 17:40:00
When you download the mod it comes with some extra files. The readme.txt has some questions and answers in it. More importantly, the Animation Instructions.txt gives guidelines for making override custom objects at the top, and instructions for all other new World.ini entries at the bottom. There is also a level, Features Demonstration, which showcases most of the new stuff. If you have any specific questions you can ask them here.

As for the level you're stuck on, this is how it originally worked:
Visit the old man,
return to the village,
check a dresser in a house to release a golden creature,
collide with it,
return to the old man and pass the gold block.
There are 50 possible golden creatures to find --not necessarily in every level. Golden blocks require you to have found a certain number to pass. The block that is barring your path requires 1 creature. I believe the level in question has been updated so you do not need to see the old man before finding the creature, but I'm not sure. It is Toenail's first released level, so don't expect a flawless game.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 21, 2012, 08:45:33
Work on KS+ has started again. I've already fixed all of the errors discovered over the summer, and begun adding some new features. I'll probably have a release ready for the weekend, but before I do that I'd like some input from the forum.

New features you'll be seeing include Area Ambiance objects. Ambiance volume increases as you approach them. KS+ levels now use single pass rendering, which means no more object flash. This can be enabled for legacy levels with the menu. Controls can be changed from the main menu with a point-and-click interface. Unfortunately, I can't add support for gamepads. Titles have a better font --no more antialiasing, and the Sign font can be changed. Lastly, I'm working out a better way to determine colors for the map. Colors will be based only on the gradient, so sections of levels will appear more unified.

At this time I'd like to ask for any ideas for objects or features you may be wanting. Development on this project is nearing completion, so if there's something you'd like to see, and it wont change the feel of KS, and it's not a moving platform, then now is the time to speak up.

For example, Talps has asked for some new invisible wall shapes. (See bank 16 objects 14, 15, and 16.) This is something I've been considering for a while, but I don't want to go crazy adding every shape imaginable. So, I'd like to hear what shapes you feel will be most useful. Talps's suggestions are a thin rectangle across the top and a thin rectangle across the middle.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on August 21, 2012, 18:30:05
I'll put in a vote for two tile wide triangular slopes (but maybe in separate single tile pieces).

I'm intrigued by your focus on sound. In the past I've considered whether adding an option for stereo-panning the sound of Juni's movement according to her position in the room would be a useful addition to this mod. Perhaps worth considering!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on August 21, 2012, 19:48:05
If you're experimenting with sound, maybe a feature to change the volume of background sounds and music? This could be triggered by shifts and triggers. Even better if it can have a smooth transition. No idea how hard it would be to pull it off.
This would allow for some awesome stuff like what was being discussed in the other thread, with gameplay elements influencing the intensity of the music.

I wish I knew beforehand that there was even a way for you to fix object flashing except with KS Ex, I used a lot of workarounds on Time Fixes Everything (KS+ level) that are now useless :P I'm pretty confident I'll manage to make it a reference level for your mod.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 21, 2012, 21:53:52
I wish I knew beforehand that there was even a way for you to fix object flashing except with KS Ex, I used a lot of workarounds on Time Fixes Everything (KS+ level) that are now useless :P I'm pretty confident I'll manage to make it a reference level for your mod.
I didn't know I was going to change this. It became necessary because of the Area Ambiance object. I was getting audio flash! The ambiance would start rising for a frame before the object could act. Single-pass rendering was something I had been avoiding because I didn't know why Nifflas used two passes. It turns out that objects will see the last screen's collision area for 1 frame, and sometimes this is enough to send them flying off the screen. So, I'm still in the process of suspending collision detection on the first frame for every object in the game, but only if single-pass rendering is active. :sigh:

Anyway, your fixes may not be useless, because animations will still reset themselves. So, shifting to identical screens can still be problematic.

If you're experimenting with sound, maybe a feature to change the volume of background sounds and music? This could be triggered by shifts and triggers. Even better if it can have a smooth transition. No idea how hard it would be to pull it off.
This shouldn't be too hard because internal max volume settings are referenced for most ambiance and music procedures. I'm not sure of the benefits though. I'll need more convincing.

I'm intrigued by your focus on sound. In the past I've considered whether adding an option for stereo-panning the sound of Juni's movement according to her position in the room would be a useful addition to this mod. Perhaps worth considering!
Again, I'll need more convincing. I don't see the advantage. Every sound effect is centered, and that's convincing. If I change one thing like Juni's foot steps, then it will stand out from the other sounds.
 
I'll put in a vote for two tile wide triangular slopes (but maybe in separate single tile pieces).
I like this. I'll probably use it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on August 21, 2012, 22:27:13
If you're experimenting with sound, maybe a feature to change the volume of background sounds and music? This could be triggered by shifts and triggers. Even better if it can have a smooth transition. No idea how hard it would be to pull it off.
This shouldn't be too hard because internal max volume settings are referenced for most ambiance and music procedures. I'm not sure of the benefits though. I'll need more convincing.
I don't know how you could need more convincing, maybe you didn't understand what I was referring to?
This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je_xDGid1hM) was posted on a thread on the hidden forum. The way the music stays in sync but changes intensity when he swaps between modes. If you implemented this, all we had to do would be have both songs playing at the same time (as ambiance), one of them with the volume of 0 (the important part is that the music continues playing in the background but can't be heard), and when we switch modes (or whatever) we switch the volumes.

Also it would be useful if you want the volume to change only when you reach a new screen instead of gradually changing when you approach it. Usually people do this by having two versions of the same sound, but with music there's the sync problem.

Maybe it just sounds more awesome to me :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 21, 2012, 23:26:23
Oh, I see. I thought you wanted to change intensity by changing the volume of one track. Syncing audio tracks is quite difficult in MMF2. Nifflas was struggling with this for Knytt Underground, and I wrote a bit of code to help him out. :) Still, there's no perfect solution.

You have hit on one of the uses for the Area Ambiance objects. You can line the edge of the screen with them and the sound will get louder as you approach the next room. If the next room has the same track playing on the same channel then it will continue playing.

Just had an idea for this while writing. I could make an ambiance silencing object. That would allow you to start both ambiance tracks together, but keep one quite until the location you want it to be heard. There will be a delay between the start of the tracks though.Edit: I tested this out with a pair of matching tracks I have for The Tree of Knowledge, and it works better than anticipated. I'll put it in the release and let you guys try it out. I need to find some audio that I'm not planning to use in TToK though.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on August 22, 2012, 03:46:55
I didn't know I was going to change this. It became necessary because of the Area Ambiance object. I was getting audio flash! The ambiance would start rising for a frame before the object could act. Single-pass rendering was something I had been avoiding because I didn't know why Nifflas used two passes. It turns out that objects will see the last screen's collision area for 1 frame, and sometimes this is enough to send them flying off the screen. So, I'm still in the process of suspending collision detection on the first frame for every object in the game, but only if single-pass rendering is active. :sigh:
New objects would also see Juni in the position she was on the last screen, so any Juni-aware objects should also be deactivated or Juni's observed position should be moved to new screen's location (which will cause a problem with old screen's objects, because they still execute their behavior once after being destroyed).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on August 22, 2012, 04:25:56
I juts remembered something that I thought about ever since I first played KS...
Why not just enable drag&drop for installing levels on every screen of the menu instead of just on the install screen?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 22, 2012, 06:34:29
@ GrayFace: I was already having problems with partially destroyed objects before I switched to single-pass rendering. I fixed it by moving most objects to y 400 and bullets to y 300. The hologram is a bullet so if I sent it to y 400 I could initiate the purple spider's run sound, and who knows what else. I throw the players animation off screen now to prevent any old location appearances on the new screen. Also, I update the player's apparent location before rendering, to prevent objects near the players old location from reacting to it.

You have just brought a worry to my mind, I'm not sure what happens if the same collectible is on 2 adjacent screens. The engine will allow only 1 to exist, so I wonder if the one being destroyed will prevent the one being created. I'll have to see.

@ Raicuparta: I often go straight to the selection menu out of habit, even when I intend on installing a new level, so I can understand where you're coming from. However, I wouldn't classify this as an annoyance. Most stand-alone games I've played that allow user made levels require self-installation, so we're already ahead of the curve here. If I were to add such a feature, I'd switch you to the Install menu because of the safeguards it has, so the usage will be almost the same.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on August 22, 2012, 13:17:12
Similarly, I move objects far off-screen and made some objects silent in such case, e.g. 10:17 plays a sound when it hides its spikes.

I switch to "install level" screen and do installation there when a level is dropped. Indeed, installing levels by drag&drop in "choose level" screen also makes sense, I only did it in main menu.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Pie_Sniper on August 22, 2012, 18:45:49
I've always thought it would be nice if you could associate .knytt.bin files with KS -- double click to install kind of deal.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Widget on August 22, 2012, 19:36:01
Unfortunately the .bin file extension is far too common for that to be remotely practical. It's used for a huge number of file types and your OS wouldn't be able to distinguish between them.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 23, 2012, 08:47:59
I added drag-and-drop-to-install on the main menu and the level selection menu. It took 5 minutes. With a little advice from LPChip, you can now cross fade from one ambiance track to another. I regret that this trick requires all the ambiance channels leaving no room for atmospheric sounds, but adding a second music channel is out of the question. Appropriate pairs of audio tracks are few, so unless you're a musician you probably wont be using the cross fade trick anyway. I've added safeguards for every single-pass rendering error I could guess at, with the exception of having the same golden creature on adjacent screens. (I know how to fix it, but I have to fix it 50 times and I don't feel like it just now. :P ) Here are the invisible objects I'm including (See attachment.)

I expect to have a new release ready sometime on Friday.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on August 23, 2012, 12:13:24
I can't see the second one from the right being all that useful, but maybe I'm just not thinking hard enough. Have you considered adding a thin vertical column? Might be helpful for masking the sort of tiles some people want to make climbable, but aren't the right shape at all.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on August 23, 2012, 17:02:46
I'm not sure if I already said this before, but I have a bit of an issue, even if you're almost definitely aware of it.
I wanted to replace the graphics for the key items, and I followed the instructions to make a powers png file, but it seems there is no way to replace only the keys. So I tried replacing the other powers with the original sprites, but this is a problem because the number of frames in the template differs from the number of frames in the original sprite for most powers. For now I just set it to repeat some frames, which just makes it look a bit odd, but I would like to know if there is a way around this.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Pie_Sniper on August 23, 2012, 22:17:16
Unfortunately the .bin file extension is far too common for that to be remotely practical. It's used for a huge number of file types and your OS wouldn't be able to distinguish between them.
You're right. I was hoping Windows would be able to recognize .knytt.bin as one compound file extension, but I just tested it and it does not. It's too bad the extension isn't just .knytt.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 24, 2012, 03:28:17
I'm not sure if I already said this before, but I have a bit of an issue, even if you're almost definitely aware of it.
I wanted to replace the graphics for the key items, and I followed the instructions to make a powers png file, but it seems there is no way to replace only the keys. So I tried replacing the other powers with the original sprites, but this is a problem because the number of frames in the template differs from the number of frames in the original sprite for most powers. For now I just set it to repeat some frames, which just makes it look a bit odd, but I would like to know if there is a way around this.
If you change one power/item you have to change them all. I made the replacement animations all the same length and speed because I figured it would be easier for level designers if each custom power had the same behavior. I can't think of a good solution for changing just the keys. I can see about adding normal OCO behavior for them. I didn't do this originally because I thought if you wanted to change one power you'd want to change them all, and using OCOs would use up 13 custom object spaces and require a page of ini instructions. Edit: All powers/items can customized individually with OCOs now. It will always check for custom power icons too. Before, it only did that if a Powers image was declared.

@ SergioCornaga: The second invisible block on the right is Talps's suggestion. He didn't say what he wanted it for, but I can see it being used to make houses that can be walked in front of and on top of. I don't think it's a particularly good idea, but people do it, and now they can do it better. :)

@ Pie_Sniper: I thought of that too once upon a time, but Widget is right. However, it would be nice if the game knew what to do if you right clicked a .bin and chose "open with -> Knytt Stories Plus." Edit: This is now a feature. You'll have to browse for it the first time, but then KS+ should remain in the "open with" sub-menu of your context menu.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on August 24, 2012, 13:06:19
I've got to run to work and haven't read everyone's no doubt worthy comments, but let me just suggest some kind of simple counter to be used at the ending sequence to show whether the player found all the secret rooms, all the hostages, all the whatever needs counting.  I guess there are very complex ways to do this with flags currently, but I'll never be programmer enough to do them, though I would love to have a good counter.  I also know that the counter might have to be used only in a false cutscene (juni trapped behind something and the screen looks like a cutsceen), but that is fine.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 24, 2012, 20:34:42
KS+ 0.6.2 is available in the opening post. This release follows KS 1.2.ego.5c. I've altered the version number scheme now that there's an official name. There are numerous fixes and added features which I'm too sick to remember right now, (I have a cold and I'm really feeling it today,) but let me try to sum it up.

I'm not thinking too clearly, so I've probably made a huge blunder with today's release, but I wanted to keep my word about releasing it today, since there seems to be some enthusiasm over it. :sick: :)

Edit: Those little fish respond to fish blockers now, because "Squareman's Adventure" tried to use them this way.

@HG: I'm not sure about that. It's possible, but I don't know that it can be simple to use. The Inventory screen is my attempt at letting you track your progress. If you wanted to you could make a screen with all the collectibles that were used in the level, and say "Here's all the stuff you missed".
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on August 25, 2012, 06:59:04
Unless I'm doing something wrong, the Test Level function doesn't seem to work, taking you to the main menu instead.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 25, 2012, 09:48:16
No Firecat, I'm the one who did something wrong. I should have tested that after I changed the instructions for it. What I thought was an unnecessary conditional actual turns out to be important, but I can't imagine why. Oh well, I put it back the way it was, and now it works. I should stop fixing things that aren't broken, and keep a record of everything that needs testing. Get KS+ 0.6.3 in the opening post. Thanks for the error report. *gives star*

Hmm... I ought to give stars for new bug reports from now on. I do really appreciate bug reports.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on August 25, 2012, 20:03:23
Apparently, test level doesn't work on one of my levels, it crashes with "Game executable stopped working". But it works fine with other levels and also works fine if I play through the main launcher. But I suppose you can't do anything about this unless I send you the level, so later I'll try to find out what triggers this.

I never got a definitive answer about a problem I reported before, about the custom character resetting to a standing position, which makes it look glitchy if I use a lot of touch shifts. Are you planning on doing something about this or should I start working on a workaround? I understand if, as you said before, you don't intend people to use it this way.
If you're still open to suggestions, it would be nice if there was a way to set a custom character for an entire screen instead of only allowing it to change through triggers. But I suppose that would almost definitely only be useful for me and the particular level I'm working on.

As always, thanks for the awesome work ;)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 25, 2012, 22:07:20
@^: I remember the discussion about character changes, but it didn't make it to the bug list since it's not a bug. I should have looked into it though.

I changed a few things that could affect test mode which I'll double check Your problem probably stems from the name change. Now that it's called Knytt Stories Plus you need to change your Editor Settings.temp to reflect this. Even if you did, Windows may open the normal Knytt Stories executable, which will give you this error if you have custom nature effects, The OCO's that don't require an image. I still haven't figured out why Windows will open the wrong program sometimes.

I'll add error checks for this scenario when I update the editor mod.

Edit: I found a bug while adding a fix for changing the character with shift-on-touch. If you stop moving at the moment it shifts to a different character, the movement sound will keep playing. Both of these things work well now. If you use a field of shift objects set to touch, then character changes and saves will only occur once while touching the field. I'd like to do this for any shift-on-touch actions, but then it wouldn't be backwards compatible.

I keep forgetting to mention this, I made the last Disk, object 11:11, a real object. It only appears in KS+ levels though.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on August 26, 2012, 17:56:58
Cool, I noticed that sound bug but forgot to report it. I need to start writing things down.
Anyway, I had already tried changing the tmp file once but after deleting the file and changing it again the correct KS opens when testing.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on August 26, 2012, 21:15:36
I have nothing to add but "yeah" for the development of a superior knytt story platform. 

Yeah! 
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 27, 2012, 05:38:23
Thanks Headgrinder.

Discovered another bug yesterday due to single-pass rendering. Lasers can malfunction if they're on adjacent screens. Internally, one laser is designated as time keeper for all lasers. This is why they synchronize so well. The problem was if the time keeper from the last screen wasn't destroyed fast enough, then the new screen could find itself without one.

I've also made the single-pass render option in the menu persistent. Meaning, KS+ will remember how you had it the next time you open the program.

I don't know when I'll make another release of KS+. None of the current fixes are pressing. Maybe I'll release it on Friday again. I really want to focus on updating Level Editor Plus this week. There is still so much to do for that project. I've made many changes and updates already.

Edit: Oops, I just found a big mistake. If you use an install package to launch the program you can't go to the main menu. You'll always be redirected to the install menu even after winning a level or resetting. I'll fix this for Friday's upload.


Edit: More bugs, The water creatures that rise and spit have the same set up as intermittent lasers. So, they too can break if used on adjacent screens.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on August 29, 2012, 03:41:26
Been playing around with the localized ambiance objects. Seems like no matter how far away from the source you are, you can still hear it. If you use a very loud ambiance sound it becomes very clear. I'm assuming you didn't intend this, since the volume only starts rising in a radius of 10 blocks from the object.
The mod's features and accessibility are really helping me make an awesome level!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 29, 2012, 06:34:27
@Raicuparta: Actually, volume 2 is the lowest setting I use. I had it set to zero initially, but I frequently heard popping on the fade-in. I attributed this to suddenly raising the volume at a non-zero point in the sound wave. Since that time I lengthened the fade-in and smoothed out the volume curve, so starting it at zero may not be any issue anymore. Truthfully, I'm guessing at this stuff since I don't know anything about audio engineering.

Glad to hear you like the effect though. I'll see if I can reduce the volume for you, or find a better way to mute.
Edit: I tested Area Ambiance with volumes that drop to zero, and I didn't hear any popping. I'll put this version in Friday's update. If anyone hears popping please inform me.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on August 30, 2012, 18:12:58
I'm wondering how you extract file name from command line. MMF only seems to extract a raw part of the parth with quotes around it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 30, 2012, 22:12:23
I'm wondering how you extract file name from command line. MMF only seems to extract a raw part of the parth with quotes around it.

Basically I read the command line data and strip the quotes off. I check for the .knytt.bin extension before jumping to the install menu.

If
Code: [Select]
Lower$(Left$(Right$(CommandItem$(""), 11), 10)) = ".knytt.bin"Then set a global string "Dropped File" to
Code: [Select]
Left$(Right$(CommandItem$(""), Len(CommandItem$(""))-1), Len(CommandItem$(""))-2)and Jump to Frame 7, the install menu.

In frame 7, if "Dropped File" isn't empty it installs the string. The main thing to watch out for is restarts including game wins. It will take you back to the install menu. To avoid this I write an item to the Settings.ini before resetting.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on August 31, 2012, 00:06:24
This isn't a bug report, and I'm not even sure if I should be asking this here...
I used a custom shift/trigger sound feature to play a certain music when activating a trigger (I want the music to start when I open a sign but I was trying to avoid shifts), it works fine until I want the music to stop, there doesn't seem to be a way to do it. Is there a way around this or should I just not use this way?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on August 31, 2012, 06:47:35
In frame 7, if "Dropped File" isn't empty it installs the string. The main thing to watch out for is restarts including game wins. It will take you back to the install menu. To avoid this I write an item to the Settings.ini before resetting.
I think I have it also called "Dropped File". I'm using my extension to handle restarts. I added ability to store values between restarts and I increment one of the values on start of Init frame. I already had to do so not to reset window size on Restart, because now KS Ex window is resizeable.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 31, 2012, 07:23:11
KS+ 0.6.4 and Level Editor Plus 0.4.0 are now available for download in the opening post.

The game has only fixes and small tweaks mentioned earlier this week.

The editor features a working Custom Objects tab in the script dialogues. There are context bar descriptions for most things now, but I've changed how it works. Place your mouse over something and press F1 for a description. This ought to be a big help to new level designers.

Under the hood I rewrote the editor's behaviors for knowing if it's the active window. Also, hopefully we've seen the last of duplicated commands. (Paste and undo would often take action 2 or 3 times under various circumstances.)

Another big change is script dialogue entries are added to the script pad upon pressing Enter or changing focus. Shift+Enter no longer does anything special. Check-boxes are still written to the script pad as soon as they are clicked.

@GrayFace: That's a handy feature. Obviously you can name the global string anything you want, but I bet we've taken the same approach to allowing users to drop files in any menu. :)

@Raicuparta: Sorry, if you use a Shift or Trigger to start a sound, the sound will play out. The only way to stop it is with a cutscene, or by starting 16 other sounds. There are a limited number of sound effect channels each time you play a sound effect the next channel is chosen. When you reach the last channel it returns to the first. With short sound effects you should never hear a cutoff sound. I can't imagine a seamless way to use this to do what you want though.

Here's a crazy idea, I don't even know if it'll work. Cover the screen in Shift B objects set to touch and stop music. Use a Trigger to spawn a Shift A object at the players location. The Shift A will supersede the Shift B allowing the music to play only on that tile. I think I'll try it myself and see how it goes. Nevermind, that only works with signs. However, I think you could easily spam enough sounds to clean out the audio channels if you surround the Sign's location with shifts set to touch. Play a short track of silence.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on August 31, 2012, 08:34:24
There are context bar descriptions for most things now, but I've changed how it works. Place your mouse over something and press F1 for a description. This ought to be a big help to new level designers.

I'm not sure that this is better, just different. But I'd be interested in your rationale.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on August 31, 2012, 10:11:59
Testing the new version.
There seems to be a new problem with the custom character touch shifts. The way I'm using them, there are two "walls" of shifts, like this:
Code: [Select]
[A][B]
[A][B]
[A][B]
Shift A turns you into a certain character, and Shift B turns you into another character. With your new change to prevent it from triggering the same shift over and over, it seems that some times activating Shift A will prevent Shift B from working. This is something that I can easily prevent in my level by separating the shift walls,, but I thought I should report it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on August 31, 2012, 10:45:03
Clarified:
There seems to be a new problem with the custom character touch shifts. The way I'm using them, there are two "walls" of shifts, like this:
Code: [Select]
[A][B]
[A][B]
[A][B]
Shift A turns you into a certain character, and Shift B turns you into another character. With your new change to prevent it from triggering the same shift over and over, it seems that some times activating Shift A will prevent Shift B from working. This is something that I can easily prevent in my level by separating the shift walls, but I thought I should report it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on August 31, 2012, 16:04:09
Thanks, forgot about that.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on August 31, 2012, 17:56:30
@ SergioCornaga: The second invisible block on the right is Talps's suggestion. He didn't say what he wanted it for, but I can see it being used to make houses that can be walked in front of and on top of. I don't think it's a particularly good idea, but people do it, and now they can do it better. :)
I think what I was thinking of at the time was for narrow ledges you jump up, though I can't recall exactly. I was also thinking of trying to use them in conjuncture with triggers to make ledges you could go upwards through but not down through (making them spawn after you pass through them).

I think it'd be nice if you could completely disable the map for a level. I don't often want to use it but I also don't really want it to show off my messy shifts (especially if I use KS+ for 'Dragon Myth' which is a total mess - wish I'd been more organised when I worked on it before). I guess I'm a bit of neat-freak. :/ Really, I just don't want to have to go to the effort of making the map look good when I don't have any cause or desire to show the map anyway. But maybe I'm the only one OCD in that way.

I was also thinking a few days ago that it'd be nice to have another block similar to 0,12 - the one that only enables music when the player has the eye. I don't know if your recent changes have affected this, and annoyingly I can't remember exactly what I was thinking of at the time, but it'd be nice to have some other way of triggering music over a number of screens, like music only playing if a certain flag is on.

Lastly (and sorry if this has already been dissected somewhere in the bowels of this thread) I think it'd be very useful if the level selector menus could show, rather than just newly installed, unplayed levels, all (or a number of) levels displayed in order of newness. The same goes for last played, instead showing recently played.


EDIT: Found a bug. Nothing seems to work correctly on layer 7 if you have overlay=true set. Shifts, warps, upgrades and savepoints don't interact with the player and can't be interacted with, enemies can't injure the player and, it seems, can move through solid objects. I'm using a custom Juni sprite, if that's important.

EDIT2: I just remembered what I was originally thinking of for the music changer object, though what I'm thinking of is probably impossible. I'll say it anyway on the off-chance though. I thought it'd be really cool if the ambience could change (or become active) depending on whether the hologram is active or not. However, this was mostly me dreaming and I doubt it'd be possible/worth the effort. Just thought I'd mention it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 01, 2012, 04:01:34
@ Sergiocornaga: Changing the way the context bar works was for performance. Although only a small number of context instructions were used during a program loop, it appears the vast size of this section of the program became a burden. Now, the beast lies dormant until you press F1.

@ Raicuparta: I thought I programmed it so that the shifting scenario you described would work. That is my goal, so I'll see what's going on. *star for bug report* I tested it and this is what I found: Running through the walls one way or the other works fine. The only issue I found was when I stopped at the point where I overlapped both walls and went back. In this scenario the first wall can't change characters because I never stopped contacting it since it first activated. I'm open to suggestions for a better way to program it. I can't think of a way that wouldn't result in continuous changes if the player stopped at the point where they touch both shifts. Designing your level with a gap between walls may be the best solution.

@ Talps: First of all, I don't see the benefit of more music blocks like the one for the eye. If you want music to play based on a Flag or Power then you can Flag Warp to a similar screen with music.

Secondly, I'm having a hard time seeing your point about disabling the map. It works on old levels too, and most of them look terrible on the map. I expect this wont change much with KS+. Ugly maps will be the norm and most players will quickly learn this to be the case. In my early days as a KS player, I tried keeping a map on graph paper for a level until it overlapped itself. I was very much like  :huh: ...  >( . I've always seen the lack of a map as KS's biggest flaw. I see the map feature as the possibility to have a working level map rather than a requirement. I think it should be up to the player, not designer, weather they use the map or not. I'd really like to hear more opinions on the subject. I don't think designers should have the ability to disable the map.

What you're describing for level selection sounds very much like GrayFace's mod. It is a nice feature, I'll consider it.

Lastly, layer 7 stops interacting with the other layers when using Overlay. I've mentioned it several times, but I know this thread is huge. Originally this was done so waterfalls and other objects could still be placed in front of foreground tiles. Although this may force people to change their design habits, there are many advantages. For instance you can place a Sign tile wherever it looks best without worrying if the player can touch it. Rain can fall past collision tiles. Make normal water tiles safe. I ought to blog some tutorials in the style of SiamJai's .pdf tutorials to keep people aware of these details.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Widget on September 01, 2012, 05:48:33
I think it's just an extension of Talps' attention to detail with the presentation of his levels. Like, he feels that if he's making a level he wants to define every aspect of the player's experience so they see the level as he intended; not with all the "messy" workings exposed in a map which isn't part of the concept.

Of course this is all supposition on my part :P

As for my point of view, I don't really use the map unless it's a major feature of the level (as in Elpis' Squareman's Adventure (http://knyttlevels.com/levels/Elpis%20-%20Squaremans%20Adventure%28KS%20Ego%21%29.knytt.bin), for example) so it makes little difference to me either way. I think, if I were to open the map and it seemed clearly unintended for use in that level, I'd likely just ignore it from then on.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on September 01, 2012, 11:41:01
About the map, I have to agree with Talps, I think there should be an option to disable it. I'm still trying to decide if I'm going to fix it to make it even remotely useful on my Time Fixes Everything level (it is a huge mess right now), but if I decide not to, I don't feel comfortable with players seeing how it works backstage without going into the editor. If feel it would take away from the immersion.
Also, it's not very hard to imagine a scenario where the map could make a level easier than intended, maybe in some maze levels.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on September 01, 2012, 13:58:33
I don't think designers should have the ability to disable the map.

You might as well include it as a feature. If designers really want to disable it, they will using the means already at their disposal, like adding warps and putting 30 room gaps between screens.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 01, 2012, 14:34:31
See, when even top designers like Talps and Raicuparta would rather disable the map than design their levels for it, who is going to use it? I thought designers would want to use it because of it's potential to improve the player's experience. Frankly, by not giving the choice to turn it off, I felt level makers would be more likely to design for it.

What if I let designers disable it and have it off by default for original levels, but let players turn it on in the options menu if they want to? It could say, "Force map on," so they know their actions will change the intended experience. I'd have to hide the Map Power icon though because I'm meticulous too.

PS: I think the map is a positive thing even for maze levels. I only feel like I'm cheating when I use it to see if a room is warping to itself, or if it's only meant to look like it is.

@ Sergio: It would be easier to show every room as x1000y1000, but I see your point.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on September 01, 2012, 14:50:51
The only reason I'm not sure if I want to use the map on my level yet is because I would add map spoofing instructions to huge sections of the level, I have entire areas that aren't supposed to look like they are near the rest of the level, and I'll only do that if I have the time. Also I have one area in particular that I'm not even sure if it is possible to make it look right on the map.

But I'm highly motivated to include the map feature on my level, because I'm trying to make it a reference for KS+ levels, using as many of its features as possible. I'll just have to work that out towards the end.

If it doesn't work exactly the way I want it to, I don't want it on my level, because it is going to feel like something is unfinished. I think it should be default on, with the option to turn it off.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on September 01, 2012, 17:47:58
What if I let designers disable it and have it off by default for original levels, but let players turn it on in the options menu if they want to? It could say, "Force map on," so they know their actions will change the intended experience. I'd have to hide the Map Power icon though because I'm meticulous too.
That's exactly what I'm going to do.

I tested it and this is what I found: Running through the walls one way or the other works fine. The only issue I found was when I stopped at the point where I overlapped both walls and went back. In this scenario the first wall can't change characters because I never stopped contacting it since it first activated. I'm open to suggestions for a better way to program it. I can't think of a way that wouldn't result in continuous changes if the player stopped at the point where they touch both shifts. Designing your level with a gap between walls may be the best solution.
I'd suggest something like the attached image. In these conditions set the "overlap" flag of the trigger. Fixed values comparison would make the game choose just one trigger that player overlaps. As I can see from signs behavior, it always chooses the object created last.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on September 01, 2012, 21:47:04
Thanks Widget; you put it a lot better than I could have ;). And I agree with Rai, too - seeing the workings of a level can damage the immersion for me. I've played a lot of 'classic' levels since downloading your mod and already I've developed an annoying habit of looking at the map screen and mentally examining the programming techniques instead of enjoying the level as it was meant to be enjoyed. Also, I keep walking into traps while looking at the map.

I'm trying to include the map in the KS+ level I'm working on now, because I do agree with you: having a working map would look cool. But it's proving more pain than it's worth. Having duplicate screens close to where they fit is just much easier for me when it comes to programming. Plus I've currently got three very complicated screens to move because the path has wandered too close to them.

On the other hand... If I do make a sequel to 'I Dreamed of the Sky' (which isn't unlikely) it will inevitably become a trilogy, and I spent a lot of time stressing about how to make my plan for the third part work - the map screen has solved a lot of potential troubles and it will definitely be used when I get there.


Tell you what: how about a command that allows you to hide certain screens from the map? Then I can tell the level to show I'm in the non-duplicate screen while the duplicate screen itself is invisible? To me, that seems a much better solution than trying to second-guess which direction the level is going to build in, or putting a screen thirty blocks left and thirty blocks down.
It won't help with 'Dragon Myth' or other pre-mod levels, but it'd at least make designing for the mod less... frustrating, and encourage me to use the map where it's not necessarily useful.

The 'force map on' option sounds good; pleases the design freaks and the cartography nerds.

Man, I talk too much.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 02, 2012, 03:38:16
Talps, you don't have to give out the Map Power, then it wont matter where the duplicate rooms are. You've sparked an idea in my mind. ... Oh, it's a very good idea too! I think I can do what you've requested without changing the map functions much. The solution was so stupidly simple. If you declare a MapX or MapY value for a screen it wont appear on the map even with the Map Power. So, now you can hide rooms from the map without placing them far away.

I've added the ability for designers to turn off the map, and let players force it back on. I do feel much better about one aspect; original levels won't have the Map Power icon showing. So, If someone plays The Machine for the first time with KS+ they will be able to collect all the items in the bar like they should.

Raicuparta, I wasn't aware that you could do that. That should come in handy.

Edit: I'm going to release these changes tomorrow. They're pretty important differences, so the sooner designers get to use them the better. I'll do a bit of testing first.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on September 02, 2012, 12:15:11
Talps, you don't have to give out the Map Power, then it wont matter where the duplicate rooms are. You've sparked an idea in my mind. ... Oh, it's a very good idea too! I think I can do what you've requested without changing the map functions much. The solution was so stupidly simple. If you declare a MapX or MapY value for a screen it wont appear on the map even with the Map Power. So, now you can hide rooms from the map without placing them far away.

You can still view the map even without the map power; it writes itself as you explore.
However, your idea is such an obviously good one that I feel dumb for not working it out myself. Kudos!
Now I have a tileset to design and I need to stop procrastinating...
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 02, 2012, 13:17:31
KS+ 0.6.5 is available in the opening post. This version includes a fix for character changing issues and an updated map spoofing system.

Now when you declare a MapX and/or MapY in the script for a room, the actual location of that room will not show on the map even when possessing the Map power. In most cases that is all you will need to make a beautiful map for the player. However, there 2 new instructions to assist with complex mapping issues:

MapVisible=True
A map location containing spoof data is removed from the map. But, the location should be shown when a second room spoofs to it. Put "MapVisible=True" in the location's scripts to keep it from being removed.

MapVisible=False
You may want to create areas that are not spoofed but also not shown on the map. A secret tunnel for instance. "MapVisible=False" will hide a room before, while, and after it's been visited.

Edit: Put Map=False in the World group to disable the map entirely.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on September 02, 2012, 18:05:20
I'm having a problem with custom characters. If a shift changes the character to a blank image (so that the character is invisible), it remains invisible and won't change back with other shifts. I'm not sure what version introduced this bug but it worked fine before.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 03, 2012, 00:59:00
@ Raicuparts: I've run some tests and I can't reproduce your problem. I've even performed a Shift hide while using a blank character image, and I can still change back. Check you Image declarations.
Code: [Select]
;example declarations
[Custom Character]
Image1=Knytt.png
Image2=Template.png
Image3=Blank.png
If you switch to an image that isn't declared, then it will load no image and the character will be invisible. If that isn't the problem make sure your shift instructions match the declarations. If these aren't your problem I'll need to see your script.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on September 03, 2012, 01:56:59
I think there's nothing wrong with the instructions, I just tested the exact same level on version 0.6.2 and it works fine there. (just to be clear, the problem is in 0.6.5)
I've been trying to find what the problem is specifically with no luck.

I made a new empty level, created two screens, one with a shift that changes to a blank character, and one that changes back to Juni. You can download it here (http://www.mediafire.com/?244sav8oxvq1bui). Maybe I did something wrong on that one, but the bug doesn't seem to be exactly the same. It seems that if I use the top shift first, she will get stuck on invisible mode, but if I use the bottom shift first, she gets stuck on Juni mode.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 03, 2012, 02:39:03
Oh, it happens when you change characters and the screen! I must have broke this when I fixed the hide with screen change issue you found before. Now, that I know what I'm looking for it shouldn't be difficult to fix. *gives star for bug report*
Edit: Uploading KS+ 0.6.6 now. It was a boneheaded oversight on my part. The newest version of the Character change limiter used a boolean stored in a location outside of the shift objects. So, when you changed screens that variable remained and the shift objects that would have turned off were destroyed.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on September 03, 2012, 12:16:23
I've found a serious bug with shifting; absolute target shifting will only send me to screen 0,0. Turning off absolute target seems to fix the bug, though that's not helping me very much. The buggy shift also does one or two other things; my coding looks like this:

[x990y984]
Overlay=true
ShiftVisible(A)=False
ShiftAbsoluteTarget(A)=True
ShiftSave(A)=True
ShiftQuantize(A)=False
ShiftEffect(A)=False
ShiftTouch(A)=True
ShiftType(A)=3
ShiftXMap(A)=-1
ShiftXPos(A)=19
ShiftYPos(A)=6
ShiftSound(A)=None
ShiftFlagOn(A)=0

(It's not my most complex screen :p)
There will eventually be a cutscene in there, too, but I haven't made it yet.
As I say, it keeps sending me to screen 0,0 instead of my intended target (989,984).
I'm still using 0.6.4 I think.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 03, 2012, 12:47:27
This looks like a bug with my editor. It's showing the right information but it's entering the non-absolute data. The code you have written above points to (-1, 0). It should look like this:
[x990y984]
Overlay=true
ShiftVisible(A)=False
ShiftAbsoluteTarget(A)=True
ShiftSave(A)=True
ShiftQuantize(A)=False
ShiftEffect(A)=False
ShiftTouch(A)=True
ShiftType(A)=3
ShiftXMap(A)=989
ShiftYMap(A)=984

ShiftXPos(A)=19
ShiftYPos(A)=6
ShiftSound(A)=None
ShiftFlagOn(A)=0

I'll give you a star later, it hasn't been 8 hours since my last gift.

Edit: Oy, was that ever hard to fix! I've found some more bugs in the editor. The confirmation dialogue makes several mistakes. I guess I'll work on that next. I think I'll wait until Friday to make anymore releases. I was hoping to work on TToK this week. :(
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on September 03, 2012, 15:34:47
Dude, the new invisible solid objects are like, totally visible. Actually you can just barely see them, and they're red.
I suppose you had it this way while testing and forgot to make it invisible.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on September 03, 2012, 16:25:00
Fun fact: the invisible objects in the original Knytt Stories are also just barely visible. And custom objects flash a single annoying red pixel the moment they appear! It's maddening stuff.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on September 03, 2012, 18:40:53
Man, I've been reading every update to this thread even though I'm not currently working on any knytt projects and I am so anxious to find the time and the passion to get going on my projects again.  I suppose I need to post my tileset up somewhere and ask for some help because I lost my original and I can't figure out how I did it.  Anyhoo... Thank you  ego for continuing to rock the knytting world.  I'm so amazed at how versatile you are making this engine.  *Yet another star*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 04, 2012, 02:04:04
Thanks again Headgrinder. You make great levels, so I hope you find time to do things you enjoy.

Raicuparta, is right. I was careless when I made the new invisible objects. I'm in the habit of using 080000 for black, but the original objects used 000001. This color is added to the background color. Sergio, I didn't know CO's flashed a red dot on screen. I'm sure it's an internal behavior I can't do anything about, but it's good to know.

I noticed another bug myself. When you spawn an object to a screen with a golden creature, the gold dust the GC makes will appear at the spawn point for a moment. I'm not sure if all generated objects are susceptible or just gold dust.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on September 07, 2012, 11:28:43
I made OCO's for the keys, and there seems to be a problem. If the red key has been collected, the purple key will not appear, as if it had already been found, but the purple key doesn't show as having been collected in the item bar.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 07, 2012, 14:07:03
New releases for KS+ and its editor. The game features less-noticeable invisible objects and other minor tweaks. The editor has several bug fixes including a confirmation dialogue error and absolute targets for Shifts are now written to the script. The biggest news is the introduction of the World tab. (See image.)

@ Raicuparta: I fixed the OCO powers/items bug you just reported at the last minute. I only tested it on the red key before, and unfortunately that's the only one that worked properly. I had all of them checking if the red key was collected to decide if they should be created. :oops:

Edit: Forgot to attach image.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on September 08, 2012, 01:23:58
hmm... for some reason the feature demonstration level has a bottomless pit screen now right after the intro to gold creatures.  Sometimes it has a title that says "the dark caverns" when you fall and sometimes it doesn't.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 08, 2012, 02:17:19
Headgrinder, It sounds like you've installed the mod wrong. You need to either merge the "Knytt Stories" folder in the game zip with your original "Knytt Stories" folder, or you need to copy the original "data" folder into the location you installed the mod.

That point in the demo is the first time I use a default tileset and gradient. If the original data is missing, then the background and collision tiles can't be drawn. You're not the first to have this problem. I guess I should add an error check specifically for this.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on September 08, 2012, 03:57:01
Oh, right.  Dough!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 08, 2012, 07:49:31
I have a question for everyone. Early on, I stated that I didn't want to include features that would change the feel of Knytt Stories. I felt that a swimming mode and moving platforms would undermine the solid pick-up-and-play mechanics. Anyway, it turns out that jump-through platforms are surprisingly easy to make, but this was a feature I had felt would change the Knytt experience too much. Now, I'm not so sure. What do you think?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on September 08, 2012, 15:32:04
I think including them could be a good idea. Especially since I've been thinking of a convoluted method for making jump-through platforms with shifts in standard KS recently.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on September 09, 2012, 00:01:00
I think jump-through platforms would be ok; they're something that I often find I'd like to use in small ways that wouldn't have a big impact on gameplay. There are a lot of instances when I've seen them not used and felt that the level would feel a lot more solid if they'd been in there.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on September 09, 2012, 00:22:13
Yeah, I'm all for it... of course, I'm all for hijacking the whole knytt stories engine for my own selfish purposes!  :D 
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on September 09, 2012, 14:06:31
Anyway, it turns out that jump-through platforms are surprisingly easy to make, but this was a feature I had felt would change the Knytt experience too much. Now, I'm not so sure. What do you think?
Not in a slightest bit, compared to introduction of the map :) I think they should be invisible (truly invisible).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 09, 2012, 15:24:46
Everyone seems to be in agreement. I certainly can't argue with Grayface's point about how small a change jump-through platforms are in comparison to the map. They will be in the next release, Friday if not sooner.

The jump-through part was easy to implement, but I realized jumping back through was needed too. It's video game law. Anyway, it was a little tricky, but if you press down + jump you'll fall through a "Ledge". Why are they called "Ledges" you ask? Because, I couldn't fit "Jump-through" across the tile. I couldn't even fit "Through." They look like springs because they are similar in function. (See image.)

Bug report: In the editor, if one of the Shift Map or Shift Target boxes is active when you click Absolute, most likely it'll screw up. Now that fields automatically update when they're deselected, the Absolute check mark changes the values and then the deselection detector changes them again causing utter chaos.

I don't think I've mentioned this anywhere before. The background fish now react to the fish blocker. Originally, I thought they didn't need to because their paths are so small, but Squareman's Adventure blatantly expected it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on September 10, 2012, 04:46:02
The jump-through part was easy to implement, but I realized jumping back through was needed too. It's video game law. Anyway, it was a little tricky, but if you press down + jump you'll fall through a "Ledge".
I think there should be 2 kinds of ledges, with and without jumping down. I expect simple jump-through ledges to be more useful.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 11, 2012, 03:59:34
I think there should be 2 kinds of ledges, with and without jumping down. I expect simple jump-through ledges to be more useful.
I'm afraid having different kinds of ledges will make things difficult for players. I'll add it anyway. The groundwork has all been laid, the hardest part will be finding a short name to put on the tile. "Oneway" fits but it doesn't look good.

There's something that has always bugged me about the Triggers. If you wanted to spawn a laser row you couldn't because you could only create one object per trigger. So, I've finally devised the "Spawn" object. An object will spawn wherever you place them when the Trigger of the same letter is triggered. Triggers alone work the same as always, but with Spawns present the spawn location is overridden.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on September 11, 2012, 07:14:43
"Oneway" fits but it doesn't look good.

"1-way"?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 12, 2012, 07:28:02
"1-way" will work. Then I can label the other one "2-way" and there will be no confusing them and their usage. Well, the level designers won't be confused. I still fear for the players' sanity.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on September 12, 2012, 14:14:20
I can't possibly imagine anyone ever pressing down+jump when stuck, so we'll have to rely on text boxes to explain that...
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on September 13, 2012, 00:31:39
It'll come down to the skill of the designer, at days end, to see how well they're used. Personally I don't think I'd ever mix the two in a single level, unless I was going to give a sort of extra upgrade to make the difference, like how 'Teenhmifnoeafgil' (if I spelled that right I should have a prize) gives an upgrade before you can start jumping.

I was thinking Ego, the overlay is extraordinarily useful, opening myriad possibilities in the mod level I'm working on despite me only being 4 screens into the second environment, but at times it'd be nice to be able to overlay the background but not Juni. Like where I want to partially mask a waterfall with a bit of background wall, but I don't want Juni to disappear behind that scrap of wall if the player jumps that way. Is it possible to get a second type of overlay that doesn't cover Juni?
Sorry; I know you're getting a ton of small requests and then second types of those requests... But it's a thought and it'd be handy. At the moment I'm having to shape my backgrounds to work around it. I could always make a CO but the overlay is made to make that less necessary.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 13, 2012, 06:40:30
Your Overlay request just isn't possible, Talps. You know how layer 7 stops interacting with the collision mask and Juni during overlay? The same thing would happen to Juni if we put overlay tiles behind her.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on September 13, 2012, 11:25:16
Wow! Fair enough then :p

EDIT: I now have a placeholder waiting for the new spawn object. Spawning in enemies part-way through a screen is great; the first challenge in the screen is quite hard enough without something popping out of the water and shooting at you, so using triggers to spawn the shooty water enemies after you've navigated the first challenge is a nice touch. Plus it's not something you could do in normal KS so it takes the player by surprise, and gives a nice sense of motion to events.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 14, 2012, 12:46:44
KS+ 0.6.8 and a matching Features Demonstration level are available in the opening post. This version includes 1 and 2 way jump-through Ledges, 3 more invisible blocks, and the new Spawn object.

The Ledges allow players to travel up past them but not down through them. The 2-way version can be jumped-down-through by pressing S while holding Down. Ledges are invisible and can be found with the invisible blocks in Bank 16.

Spawners work with Triggers. Set up your Trigger normally, but instead of declaring a spawn point place a Spawner where you want your object to appear. The chief benefit of this is you can now spawn multiple objects with a single Trigger by placing multiple Spawners.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on September 14, 2012, 13:44:46
Found a bug.

With overlay active, placing glowing water on layer 7 causes a graphical glitch in the tile where the water is placed. In the screenshot below, the glowing water tiles all make the background of their tile brighter when placed. Also, note that the blue water tile also appears discoloured.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 14, 2012, 19:45:49
The discoloring of the water will be easy enough to fix. The water light is moving in front of the water when they're both moved to the top. I can't reproduce the other error where the tile the water is on becomes brighter. I've tried to recreate everything on your screen shot, I used version 0.6.7, but it's not happening. Maybe you could copy the room and paste it in a personal message, the NotKnyttEdit followed mostly by zeros. The tiles and gradients shouldn't be necessary.

*gives star for bug report*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on September 14, 2012, 21:17:51
Maybe the white glow was discolouring the blue water. The others were white glow over white and red glow over red lava. So I guess fixing the main thing will fix it. I'll have a look in the next version.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 16, 2012, 13:15:56
I'm experimenting with pick-up sounds for collectibles. I'd like each kind; coins, creatures, and artifacts; to have a unique sound similar to the power-up pick-up sound. Here's my first draft for coins. Opinions welcome.

Coinup.ogg (http://egomassive.com/temp/Coinup.ogg)

I attempted to replace the high-end of the standard sound with the sharp ping of the coin.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on September 16, 2012, 13:39:12
I feel like that's a bit too similar to the power-up pick-up sound, if there were multiple coins near each other it could become rather annoying. Or maybe it's just me, I was never really fond of that sound.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 21, 2012, 20:51:50
I haven't done much Knytting this week, but it appears to be a slow week for Knytting in general unless the Knytt Underground Beta forums, which I can't see, are buzzing. Therefore, I thought I'd share my progress with the coin pick-up sound.

Coinup2.ogg (http://egomassive.com/temp/Coinup2.ogg)

In this version I tried to mimic the loudness curve of the normal pick-up sound, but I only used the coin sample to create it. This can mostly be heard in the brief rising ring before the climactic ping. I'm leaning towards the first method at this time. This one doesn't sound like an original sound effect.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 04, 2012, 00:17:38
KS+ 0.6.9 is available in the opening post. The most notable improvement is artifacts can be replaced with OCOs. This means each artifact can have a different appearance. I've updated Ship Parts to take advantage of this feature. It can now be found in the OP as well. Other improvements include a fix for launching the program from an install file and a new error message for improper installation of KS+.

On the subject of custom sounds for coins, Artifacts, and Golden Creatures; currently I'm leaning away the idea entirely. My attempts don't sound enough like something Nifflas would make, so I think it will be better to leave them as they are.

Edit: I also tried to fix the layer-7-water-lights-with-overlay issue. I never could reproduce all the bugs Talps was getting.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on October 18, 2012, 12:16:08
I was working on a level yesterday (for the first time in a while) and had a couple of thoughts. Sadly, I had no internet at the time and now can only remember one of them.

I was wondering if you would be able to make some spikes in the traps file. Saves making your own, or finding a way of forewarning the player of pop-out spikes.


EDIT: Oh, I was also wondering if it could be made possible to specify what layer triggers make a thing appear on, and if it could be made possible to use triggers to make something disappear - for example, I've used one to make a warp block appear; can it be made possible to make that block then disappear if the player turns around and heads for a different exit?
By current default, what level do triggered objects appear on?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 19, 2012, 07:41:49
Oh, I was also wondering if it could be made possible to specify what layer triggers make a thing appear on, and if it could be made possible to use triggers to make something disappear - for example, I've used one to make a warp block appear; can it be made possible to make that block then disappear if the player turns around and heads for a different exit?
By current default, what level do triggered objects appear on?

Spawned objects are placed at the same depth as the Trigger that made them. If you place a Trigger on layer 5, the object it spawns will be on layer 5. When using Spawn objects, things are still created at the same depth as the Trigger.

I'll consider the spike thing. I really hate how you can die when running off a ledge with user made spikes on the cliff face.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on October 19, 2012, 12:37:46
I see, ok. That's useful to know. :) I had a thought of making windows in a house light up after Juni passes...

How about making things disappear with triggers? Could you override an object by triggering an invisible block on the same layer?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 20, 2012, 01:06:25
How about making things disappear with triggers? Could you override an object by triggering an invisible block on the same layer?

Making objects disappear is trickier than making them appear. I haven't yet thought of a straight forward way to do it. ... I have an idea. What if I make an object that destroys any other object it overlaps when a Trigger is tripped? This wouldn't require any World.ini instructions beyond the ones that already exist for Triggers. It wouldn't work well for moving creatures, but it would be great for unblocking paths.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on October 20, 2012, 01:53:31
I have an idea. What if I make an object that destroys any other object it overlaps when a Trigger is tripped? This wouldn't require any World.ini instructions beyond the ones that already exist for Triggers. It wouldn't work well for moving creatures, but it would be great for unblocking paths.
Why not make it so it destroys the object that was placed in that position in the editor? That way moving creatures wouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on November 02, 2012, 14:03:00
Right now I want to make a CO disappear. In the past, I've wanted to make a warp object vanish. So personally it's only stationary objects that I've wanted to use it on.


EDIT: I note that you can't have commas in titles. Can this be otherwise?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 04, 2012, 05:12:13
That's odd about the comma. It adds a space for it. I must have misplaced the comma in the font image.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on November 04, 2012, 10:33:58
I found that MMF2 takes more time to destroy objects than to create them. In KS Ex I now move objects outside of play area and don't call Destroy. This makes switching between screens faster. This also requires making some more objects inactive during the switch, because any collision masks aren't updated and the player ends up colliding with objects from the previous screen, like Win tiles, save points, power-ups etc. I do destroy objects 12 and 20 from bank 0. I haven't checked if all objects have the "Destroy object if too far away from frame" flag on. On another note, I keep shifts inactive for an extra frame for compatibility with shift-based animation in levels that were made for 2-phase screen render.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 04, 2012, 12:22:37
New version of KS+ available, 0.7.0. This one has static spikes. They look like the hidden spikes in bank 6, but they don't hide. I've added the comma to the Title's font. Somehow I erased it when I updated the font previously. A bug with the climb power combined with CO's I introduced in the last version has been squashed. Last but not least, there are Delete objects.

Delete objects will destroy most other objects when a Trigger is tripped. Simply place one on an object you wish to have destroyed. They must be touching the object you want to destroy at the time the Trigger is activated. This will make destroying moving objects tricky, but you can use multiple Delete objects on a single screen. Any bank object can be destroyed as well as COs. Projectiles are immune to it's effects, but nature effects like rain drops and dust particles are not.

@ GrayFace: So, you let the "destroy if too far from frame" handle the destruction? I'll have to try this out. I've already built a function that simulates two-cycle rendering for parts of the program that rely on it. I could probably use that to fix the problems that will arise.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on November 05, 2012, 20:51:45
Yes, but I also put them in a list (in Lua) and make sure they get destroyed, because template objects don't have the flag. I destroy 10 left-overs on each tick.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: JTsentinel on November 06, 2012, 20:07:33
New version of KS+ available, 0.7.0. This one has static spikes. They look like the hidden spikes in bank 6, but they don't hide.  -snip-

I really need that for the KS level I'm making. Are you going to add more platforming features to this mod?

Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 07, 2012, 08:54:50
The KS mod is more or less done. I don't have plans for anymore features. I am taking suggestions though. I'm looking into GrayFace's destruction idea, but that's just to improve performance.

I still have some work to do on the editor mod. When that is finished and appears to be bug free I'll declare both products complete, and stop distracting myself from the levels I could be making. :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on November 07, 2012, 09:28:36
Looking forward to the Tree and Community levels :)

Are you going to add more platforming features to this mod?
What features would you like to see?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: JTsentinel on November 07, 2012, 19:45:28
@Grayface
I want to see more traps and moving/falling platforms.

@egomassive
Cant wait for you to finish this mod, I'd like to see more of your custom levels using KS + features.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on November 07, 2012, 21:57:05
Ego has been pretty committed to not adding any moving platforms.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Marximillian on November 07, 2012, 22:48:24
Ego has been pretty committed to not adding any moving platforms.
And it's hard to change someone's mind when their ego is massive.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 08, 2012, 00:31:39
I hadn't thought of falling platforms, the type that crumble after you touch them. ... I think I might add that.

Moving platforms are still out. For the same reasons I've stated before. They are possible in KS Ex.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on November 08, 2012, 01:59:17
Yes, and already done. The moving platform object can move in any direction, left-right, up-down or diagonal. I wanted to make disappearing platforms too, but haven't made them yet. Falling platforms are a good idea.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: JTsentinel on November 08, 2012, 21:55:36
Nice, I will have to try that one out. I'd be grateful if you guys add falling/crumbling platforms to your mods.

Btw, is it possible to replace Juni's sound FX? Like her walking, jumping and climbing sounds... I made some custom sounds but I dont know how to implement it using KS Plus.

Thanks
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 09, 2012, 02:32:01
Custom sounds are limited to Music, Ambiance, Shifts, and Triggers. I know it would be cool to customize any sound the way you can customize any graphic, but it's beyond the scope of this project. Also, I have concerns over the performance of non-embedded sounds.

KS+ is meant for novice level designers. I consider sound effect design to be an intermediate level skill. I'd also put Lua programming in the intermediate zone, so if you have any programming knowledge KS Ex may be a better fit for you.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: JTsentinel on November 09, 2012, 06:40:09
Gotcha. I guess I'll just use my custom sound FX for my future levels.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on November 09, 2012, 15:14:02
I was thinking Ego, would it be possible to have a custom graphic for the umbrella as its held?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 10, 2012, 01:02:50
I was thinking Ego, would it be possible to have a custom graphic for the umbrella as its held?

I really should. It's been a while since I looked at that portion of the program, but I remember that it wasn't going to be easy.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: JumboDS64 on November 10, 2012, 20:40:06
Why are the map downloads .bin files? If I unzip one, it makes a .cpgz file, and if I unzip THAT, it makes... AN IDENTICAL BIN FILE AS I HAD ORIGINALY!  :sad: Help!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on November 10, 2012, 21:26:03
Why are the map downloads .bin files? If I unzip one, it makes a .cpgz file, and if I unzip THAT, it makes... AN IDENTICAL BIN FILE AS I HAD ORIGINALY!  :sad: Help!
First, take a look at the [FAQ], specially at the ''How do I install a .knytt.bin file?'' question, basically the .bin must be unzipped by Knytt Stories itself.

Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 12, 2012, 11:37:00
Thanks for fielding that question Firecat. *gave star*

I've released KS+ 0.7.2. This one includes customizable umbrellas and a crumbling block.

The umbrella requires no special instructions. Just include a proper spritesheet with a proper name and it works automatically. Two important notes: they only work with custom characters, and they do not protect from projectiles. Details are in the KS+ instructions text file included in the download.

The "crumbling" block is my first draft. Later on I'll make an actual crumbling rock version and add OCO capability. Before I do that I'd like feedback on the feel and the timing of it. I'm sure we all have different ideas of how "crumbling" platforms should work, so I'd like to know what you think is wrong with my version. One note: If you manage to wall-swim in one it disappears instantly.

The Features Demonstration level has been updated with example use of these features. The Umbrella power is by the Shift that turns you into a long-tailed Knytt. The "crumbling" blocks are in the Chalk Mines.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: JTsentinel on November 12, 2012, 19:23:27
The features demo link is not working, it just says Page not found when clicked.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 13, 2012, 07:09:52
Oops. File link corrected.
Edit: I noticed a little late that I haven't corrected the order for custom umbrellas yet. Until the next release, objects on layers 4 and 5 will come between custom characters and their umbrellas.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on November 19, 2012, 23:23:53
The crumbling block seems to be one of those objects that misbehave when loaded on the same tick as the player.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 20, 2012, 08:27:09
Thanks Firecat. *gives star* Other than the bug, what do you think of it? I'm waiting for feed back on the "crumbling" block before I upload another version.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on November 21, 2012, 08:21:43
Custom umbrella doesn't work with shifts. I tried the cat umbrella, but it didn't work until I set the cat as default character.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 21, 2012, 13:06:34
There's a bug or 2 in the custom umbrella. I've already fixed them. I haven't updated the release, because I wanted get more feedback on the crumbling block. *star for bug report anyway* I would guess that you've put more than one character shift on the same screen. The last one is overriding the others because I left out a conditional. :oops: I'll update as soon as I fix the issue Firecat found.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on November 22, 2012, 09:41:27
Yes, I had 3 shifts for different characters. The platforms feel pretty good. I think platforms  2 squares in width would be more practical. Shorter delay before they disappear may be better, but depends on how they'll be used. With such big delay a visual indication that the platform is about to disappear may be good, now the platforms turn back purple when it's too late to jump off them. I can't say if ability to trigger them by touching from below is good or bad.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on November 28, 2012, 17:46:52
I had an idea you might be interested in implementing.

When KS+ levels are pulled up in regular KS, Info.png is shown but the Upgrade button appears, directing to Nifflas' website. I was thinking that KS+ levels could use Info.png to display a message about the level being created in KS+ and where to obtain the mod from. When loaded in KS+, the game could check for something like Info2.png (which would be the level's real Info screen) and display that instead if it exists. What do you think? Too much work for an issue people might not even encounter?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 30, 2012, 01:52:32
@ Sergio Cornaga: You are very right that the uninitiated need some guidance. However, features that rely on designers to use them often fail. I'm afraid it would go unused like category/size/difficulty labels often do. It's the very designers who would neglect to use the feature that would ambiguously upload levels to the archive.

I'm going to include your idea. Additionally, for my editor I'll change the default level to include info.png and info2.png. Then, I'll change info.png to an image that explains the level is likely to be KS+ or KS Ex and what to do about it. Designers could then alter both images as they see fit.

The editor still needs a lot of work. If I don't hurry up and finish it before the summer, I may not be able to. I lose access to MMF at that point.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on November 30, 2012, 17:11:44
Here's another idea: we can ask Nifflas to include links to out mods on the download page :) There already is a link to KSDS. This won't help determine which mod to use though. A level that has version number above 2 is most likely a KS+ level, because KS Ex editor doesn't set version number to 3 when it creates a level. I could add a check box for this. I'm also thinking of other ways to tell the player about the mod, e.g. in my levels I have a special screen for that, set as the starting one. If editor could create this screen and add the real starting position to World.ini, this would be another solution. This would make 3rd Party Tools still work with info screen, but Info2.png solution would be easier to implement.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on December 01, 2012, 00:02:23
That's a good point GrayFace. We should ask Nifflas if he's willing to provide links to our mods on the official Knytt Stories download page. It would look bad for him if the update link built into KS didn't take users to a proper solution. But, I don't want to bother him with KS+ while it's in beta.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: toenail on December 03, 2012, 11:39:32
Hi,

I have a problem with version 0.7.2 with the inventory key. It does not close the inventory anymore.
If I remove the custom keys from the settings, it goes back to the normal behaviour. Otherwise, the key opens the full inventory and keep it on screen. I have to change screen of open the map to get rid of it.


Here are the custom keys I use (I only changes the arrows) :
[Keys]
Up=I
Down=K
Left=J
Right=L
Walk=A
Jump=S
Umbrella=D
Inv=Q
Holo=W
Nav=E
Edge=H
Map=M
Full=O (Full=I)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: LPChip on December 03, 2012, 12:05:31
You have both the up arrow and Full mapped to the same key!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: toenail on December 03, 2012, 14:06:54
You have both the up arrow and Full mapped to the same key!

How strange. I checked and apparently, it is not the case. I was trying to get back to the initial config which sets "I" to the full inventory and this is probably why I copied the wrong settings to the forum.
I modified my post to give the correct config I have (Full=O)

Additionnaly, I did a couple of tries :


Maybe I should add that I am in France and use an Azerty keyboard with FR-fr configuration for windows.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on December 03, 2012, 20:25:41
This is completely my fault. When I added the key configuration button to the main menu, I changed the names of some of the keys in the settings.ini, but I didn't update the information in this thread and the read-me.

Use the "Set Controls" button in the main menu to configure the keys. Or you can do it yourself with the current set of instructions:
Spoiler: inst (click to show/hide)
It is only necessary to add the lines which differ from the default set.  A star to Toenail for finding this mistake, and I'm glad to hear someone is using this feature. :)

Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: toenail on December 17, 2012, 16:57:25
Use the "Set Controls" button in the main menu to configure the keys.

This works like a charm... except when I am in test mode from the level editor.
The I key is apparently still set for the full inventory whatever parameters you change in the settings.
I am guessing the test mode still uses the old names for the keys ?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on December 17, 2012, 19:53:44
Hmm. I'll look into it.
Edit: Custom controls are working fine in test mode for me. I looked at the source. The program maps keys before deciding which mode to run in, normal or test. I altered the code a bit to guarantee that the controls are mapped before the program progresses. I don't think it'll make a difference, but with MMF you never know. I've released the current build in the opening post.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: toenail on December 18, 2012, 09:41:50
I've released the current build in the opening post.

Tried it and still the same.
However, I know why the keys are not mapped in my case. In test mod, the standard Knytt story exe is launched. I checked the settings and the level editor settings but nothing is out of the ordinary.

I'll try a clean install just to be on the safe side.
This is not really a big deal anyway.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on December 18, 2012, 10:01:45
However, I know why the keys are not mapped in my case. In test mod, the standard Knytt story exe is launched.

I wondered if this was the reason. This has also happened to me, I imagine it can be fixed by renaming the EXEs but that's something I'd prefer not to do.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on December 19, 2012, 00:41:49
In test mod, the standard Knytt story exe is launched. I checked the settings and the level editor settings but nothing is out of the ordinary.

I renamed my executables long ago and forgot about this problem. Thanks for bringing it back to my attention. *gives star* The solution comes straight out of the Level Editor Ex source. GrayFace adds """" to both ends of the file name. I assume this forces Windows to use the entire file name, and not launch the wrong program prematurely. Get Level Editor 0.4.3 in the opening post.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on December 19, 2012, 13:17:21
Unfortunately, now when I attempt to test a level, no executable opens at all.

Additionally: I noticed 'Edit > Cut' isn't greyed out like the other options are when first starting the editor.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on December 19, 2012, 17:38:00
It's working fine for me. I tried several things that I thought might prevent testing from working, but it still worked. Is anyone else having this issue? Does KS Ex's editor work properly for you Sergio? Otherwise all I can tell you is make sure your EditorSettings.temp reads "Knytt Stories Plus" and not "Knytt Stories Ego".

As for "cut" not being grayed initially, it's probably been that way since I added it. I checked back as far as beta 3.1. Thanks for pointing it out though. *star*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: toenail on December 19, 2012, 18:13:02
I just tried it and the test mod works fine for me.
I simply replaced the editor exe with the new version.

I checked and I have "knytt story plus" in the settings.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on December 19, 2012, 18:31:46
Oops! I made a blunder. The script dialogue in editor 0.7.4 is broken. I have to break it in order to work on it, and I left it in this state. I'll fix it as soon as I can.

Incidentally, I just noticed today that the black flier in the creepy bank doesn't react to the fish and bird invisible blocker. I'll take care of that quickly too, since it may be beneficial to a level I'm testing right now.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on December 20, 2012, 04:48:39
GrayFace adds """" to both ends of the file name. I assume this forces Windows to use the entire file name, and not launch the wrong program prematurely.
Yes, it's another bug of MMF.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Ink on December 25, 2012, 08:47:57
I just recently downloaded this. I can't test levels either. I followed all instructions given in the readme and tried some things from this thread but to no success. Thought I'd let you know that it's not working for me.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on December 26, 2012, 00:29:32
I just recently downloaded this. I can't test levels either. I followed all instructions given in the readme and tried some things from this thread but to no success. Thought I'd let you know that it's not working for me.
Well, it's hard to guess what might have gone wrong. Are you trying to test from the the KS+ editor or another? Can you post the contents of the EditorSettings.temp in your Worlds folder?

Edit: A new beta of KS+ is ready for download in the opening post, version 0.7.4. This one has two types of crumbling blocks and their graphics can be customized. I've also made the Creepy Flyer obey the fish/bird blocker.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Ink on December 27, 2012, 04:29:26
I'm trying to test with the KS+ editor. I can manipulate screens (draw terrain, place objects, etc) just fine. Guess I should have said that before. Every time I click Test it does nothing. Doesn't even seem like it's trying to do anything.

EditorSettings.temp info
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on December 28, 2012, 01:48:37
@ Purple Ink: I think I know where we went wrong here. The readme.txt was written before I decided to make an editor mod. The advise in step 3 was for people using the original editor. It says to rename Knytt Stories something else, then rename this mod "Knytt Stories". If you did that, then put the names back the way they were.

The executable listed under "ego" in the EditorSettings.temp must match the name of the program you want to use. The editor must also be in the same location on your computer as the version of KS you want it to test with.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Ink on December 29, 2012, 04:27:23
I knew it was something silly. It's now working properly.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 08, 2013, 09:13:32
Progress Report: I'm coding the the last 2 tabs in the level editor's script panel. Once they're finished you'll be able to do all your KS and KS+ scripting exclusively with the dialogues. :) Then, there will only be tying up loose ends and stamping out bugs for both KS+ and it's editor. I'm on schedule to finish this project before for my friend graduates and takes his MMF2 software with him.

Bug Report: The smile ball behaves badly in single-pass rendering. Objects that follow Juni need to hesitate a frame to work correctly. It looks like this is the only one I missed. It'll be fixed in the next release.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on January 08, 2013, 11:47:08
Otherwise all I can tell you is make sure your EditorSettings.temp reads "Knytt Stories Plus" and not "Knytt Stories Ego".

Forgot to mention, this was the issue!

I'm having trouble understanding how the reload script function works. I saved the game after changing the default level format, but pressing reload script failed to pull up the newly updated World.ini, whereas closing and reopening the script tab succeeds. Is that intentional or a bug?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 09, 2013, 07:10:57
I'm not aware of any problems with the reload functions. I'll look into it. There are certainly issues with it's behavior surrounding formats. This is the very thing I plan to work on today.

Progress Report: I finished the script panel yesterday. The miscellaneous and cutscene tabs were full of special cases making them a pain to program. I need to run more tests. I'll hold off on the next releases until I've addressed all known issues in both products. We're so close to the end! :D

Edit: I have a few more help tips to add, and I'll be finished as far as I know. I'm excited about the coming releases. Check out these improvements:

Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on January 12, 2013, 23:01:09
Man this is going to be fantastic.  I can't wait to have the time and inspiration to make a level with this.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 13, 2013, 21:17:13
Knytt Stories + 0.9.0 and Level Editor + 0.9.0 can be downloaded in the opening post. Both products are essentially complete. They only need to be proven now.

KS+ updates:

LE+ updates:

Other than bug fixes and possibly minor improvements, I'm finished making these programs. :D I skipped all the way to 0.9.0 version numbers to indicate this. I hope the community has a lot of fun making and playing KS levels for years to come, but it's time for me to start turning my attention to my own games. (Don't worry I'll still be making KS levels.)

**Web address not implemented yet. :oops:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on January 13, 2013, 23:09:46
Congratulations, Ego.
I haven't had much time to do anything game-related lately, that's why I stopped annoying you with bug reports and feature requests, but I never stopped coming here and seeing how the mod evolved. It was really nice to see it grow and become such a complete mod, especially since the editor was added. I can't wait till I get some time on my hands so I can keep working on my levels with the complete mod!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on January 14, 2013, 00:44:52
Ditto
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: toenail on January 14, 2013, 15:18:01
Already trying out the new info+ screen. This is great.

I also noticed some improvements I had missed apparently like the disappearing blocks. I have to find a use for them.
Help on all object is also great.

However, I have noticed a strange behaviour for the spiky ghost (bank 12 obj 13).
It starts slightly in a different position than intended when playing with KS+ 0.9.0 (a couple of pixels left and down).
It works fine with KS+ 0.7.3 which I had previously. I tried creating a level from scrach using both standard level editor and the new 0.9 but the result is the same.
In my case, it causes a wall fly for the monster and of course a "slight" drop in the level difficulty ;)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 14, 2013, 15:35:46
However, I have noticed a strange behaviour for the spiky ghost (bank 12 obj 13).
It starts slightly in a different position than intended when playing with KS+ 0.9.0 (a couple of pixels left and down).
It works fine with KS+ 0.7.3 which I had previously. I tried creating a level from scrach using both standard level editor and the new 0.9 but the result is the same.
In my case, it causes a wall fly for the monster and of course a "slight" drop in the level difficulty ;)
It makes no difference to KS+ which level editor you use. Originally I wasn't going to make an editor mod, but the large number of new scripts was making KS+ unfriendly to casual designers. Now it's the most friendly! I'll look into that ghost issue.

Edit: I've created the splash page for KS+ (http://egomassive.com/ks/). It needs some graphics and a description for the editor, but it's up and running. However, I'll have to change the Info image to point to egomassive.com/ks instead of egomassive.com/ks+. I don't know if it's a protocol limitation or a Wordpress limitation, but it refused to let me add the + sign.

Edit: Toenail, nice catch on the "spikey ghost". I remember screwing that up now. *gives a star.* Now that I have 2 things to fix I'll update KS+ soon.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: willxinc on January 16, 2013, 01:18:08
Some issues I've noticed are:
 - hitting Q to access item bar sometimes triggers the dark overlay with the ? on it (not always, seems random)
 - hitting E to access navigation results in either nothing happening, edge overlay (same as H), or the map showing up (seemingly randomly)
 - hitting reset in the menu, resets the zoom size as well (would be better if we can pick to do this or not)
 - In the Feature Demonstration the blocks that should be invisible to fish and birds doesn't seem to work
and lastly it'd be nice if we could pick 2x or 3x zoom level.
 - Titles and subtitles only appear once.
Edit: found out that the above was a feature (the map while pressing overlay button) except if you repeatedly press E and the, stop and then press it again, it will only activate map.

Edit: Ah, that makes sense (See post below), the thing with the titles / subtitles seems to reset depending on how you go into the level(direction)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Widget on January 16, 2013, 01:44:56
Some issues I've noticed are:
 - hitting Q to access item bar sometimes triggers the dark overlay with the ? on it (not always, seems random)
This is the collectibles menu. It shows the ? if you haven't picked ny up so as not to add a layer of confusion to levels that don't use this feature. The "unpredictability" is down to a new kind of keypress being used to trigger the new features; pressing the relevant key twice and holding it down on the second to keep the screen up. To accomodate people with slower reaction/typing speed it's very forgiving, which means you can press the key once, wait a second or so, then press it again and have it bring up the menu still.

- hitting E to access navigation results in either nothing happening, edge overlay (same as H), or the map showing up (seemingly randomly)
The map behaviour is the same as the collectible menu behaviour, outlined above.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 16, 2013, 02:32:17
Hi Willxinc. From what you've described, everything seems to be functioning correctly.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: willxinc on January 16, 2013, 03:08:01
Now that you've explained it, it makes a lot more sense I thought it was the other way around for the fish tiles.
Thanks!
Now then back to messing with the editor.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 16, 2013, 21:16:57
I've updated KS+ to 0.9.1. This corrects the web address in the Info.png for new KS+ levels. It also fixes the spikey ghost bug. Get it at the new web page. (http://egomassive.com/ks)

Note: The editor may be the program that uses the Info.png update, but the game package contains all the external files. There's no editor update this time.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: toenail on January 17, 2013, 10:23:47
I've updated KS+ to 0.9.1. This corrects the web address in the Info.png for new KS+ levels. It also fixes the spikey ghost bug. Get it at the new web page. (http://egomassive.com/ks)

Tested the new version and the spikey ghost are working perfectly now.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Ink on January 18, 2013, 16:48:14
Hey, just wanted to let you know that my WIP level Advena (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=5740.0) is going to be using this mod. Thanks for all your hard work! :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Widget on January 18, 2013, 17:38:24
Hey, just wanted to let you know that my WIP level Advena (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=5740.0) is going to be using this mod. Thanks for all your hard work! :)

I can't wait to start seeing levels with the collectibles ego put so much hard work into turning up. It's great to hear you're working in that direction now :^^:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 18, 2013, 21:43:40
Hey, just wanted to let you know that my WIP level Advena (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=5740.0) is going to be using this mod. Thanks for all your hard work! :)
Glad to hear it. I'll watch for the release.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: BloxMaster on January 18, 2013, 22:32:11
*cough*

I might have been working with KS+ for a while now. I don't want anyone to expect anything of me though, but I wanted to officially take the time to thank egomassive for his time and effort, and for everyone who's helped him test and get ideas. :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 19, 2013, 03:47:17
I might have been working with KS+ for a while now. ...

The author of KSA is using my mod! I'm honored. There's no need for you to thank me. KS+ owes a lot to KSA's legacy. I learned from the successes of your project, from how people reacted to it, and from its demise. I've even included some of KSA features in KS+ --colored cloud puffs and creature blockers for example.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Polana on January 19, 2013, 20:55:20
1) I wanna to say that your mod is great and I am thinking about making my next level in it (those creatures blocking blocks really got me).
2) Is it possible to run your mod on Linux ? My brother who is using Xubuntu wants to try it too.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 20, 2013, 05:52:34
1) I wanna to say that your mod is great and I am thinking about making my next level in it (those creatures blocking blocks really got me).
2) Is it possible to run your mod on Linux ? My brother who is using Xubuntu wants to try it too.
1) Some of the simpler additions are the most useful.
2) Looking into it. My Linux experience is shallow. I'm downloading a runtime environment called Anaconda, which is apparently what Nifflas used to make KU multi-platform. I make no promises.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: dave.germain on January 20, 2013, 15:40:52
Downloaded yesterday - This mod is AWESOME.  I can't imagine making a game in the original anymore. You've improved so much by adding triggers and allowing for creature modification. Great job.

For those who haven't experimented yet, I will say that it is dead easy to use these new features. Very intuitive and well-documented.

Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Ink on January 20, 2013, 18:21:15
I can't wait to start seeing levels for this mod!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Widget on January 20, 2013, 18:46:53
There are already a few out there. as listed in the levels for mods (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=5133.msg55141#msg55141) thread. Excluding ego's example levels there are 5 6 finished;
Spoiler: Finished Levels (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Formatting Key (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 20, 2013, 22:11:34
You can add I Chased the Moon by Talps (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=5806.0) to your list Widget.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on January 20, 2013, 23:14:47
Very exciting.  I found out that the last level I was working on when my laptop crashed has been salvaged off the failed hard drive, so I'll be starting to do some work on it for ks+.  XD

Will the Level designed for KS Mods be the only place for posting KS+ levels, or will we get our own little nook on the forum?  Especially if it becomes a thaaang?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Widget on January 21, 2013, 02:18:51
You can add I Chased the Moon by Talps (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=5806.0) to your list Widget.
Oops, I got a little rusty while everyone was playing KU :oops: Thankyou for the metaphorical kick up the backside.

Will the Level designed for KS Mods be the only place for posting KS+ levels, or will we get our own little nook on the forum?  Especially if it becomes a thaaang?

I don't know anything for sure but I doubt there'll be a separate subforum for KS+ levels. As things stand at the moment, just post them in the level releases forum (ideally with "KS+" in the thread title) and then chase me up if I don't get them added to the list quickly enough.

If it'll make things easier for people I could try asking whether the list could be stickied.. I'm sorry that it's all a bit half-baked, I only started the list as a thankyou to everyone who helped me find the levels so it's always been a bit lacking in forethought.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Dj Gopher on January 21, 2013, 08:24:38
Does this support non-english characters, like Japanese, for example?
That would be a big bonus in my opinion...
:P
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on January 21, 2013, 12:29:28
I think someone with time on their hands could make a font file for it.  For in game use at least.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 21, 2013, 16:48:30
@ DJ Gopher: There's a complete explaination in the KS+ Instructions.txt that comes with KS+. If you look at the font image below you can see there are lots of characters English speakers don't normally use. You can replace the characters you aren't using with kanji. I realize there isn't room for much, but it may be enough for a few sentences. I suppose if you're really careful you could place characters within a Sign in columns too.
(http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4175.0;attach=6448;image)
I'm pretty sure this is not the current font image I'm using. I don't see the ampersand any where. I guess the next thing this project needs is a complete template collection including fonts.

@ Talps: To make original KS levels with KSLE+ choose the "original KS" bullet when starting a project. If you're level says format 2 in the World.ini then all the parts of the dialogue pertaining to KS+ disappear. Just be sure not to use any of the new objects.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: willxinc on January 22, 2013, 03:59:06
I've noticed a few more things as I've been messing around in KS+.
Firstly if I open 2 different levels and the script tab is open, it will sometimes switch the world.ini file to the other one and begin editing it.

Another one is about an undocumented but really useful feature:
Trigger Delete Objects.
I found this in the editor and it does exactly what it says it will do, delete objects placed under it when a trigger s activated. Works perfectly for the custom-objects I tested it with as all non-solid objects (I think). When you try to get it to delete a solid object (such as invisible-wall) it won't delete it.

Example of it here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?h1eyvh9drqyl5n3

First room is an example of the delete-trigger working and deleting one of the system-objects you added (1 way path) along with the custom door object.
The second room deletes the custom door object as well as 2 invisible-walls. It deletes the door fine, but unlike above, does not delete the invisible walls.

Just thought I'd let you know.

Oh and on the topic of un-documented stuff. What's with objects 248-251? The WASD blocks? No idea what they do, but they seem useful.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 22, 2013, 06:41:58
You're really putting KS+ to the test Willxinc. Thank you. I never considered what would happen if you opened two instances of the editor with the script panels open. It uses a temp.ini to write temporary script changes to. All instance of the editor will use the same file. I better change that. Each world should have it's own temporary script. *gives star*

The KS+ Instructions.txt is mainly for new script instructions and graphical guidelines, but I suppose I should describe every new object as well, especially if an object isn't covered by any of the example levels.

Objects 0:248-255, simulate key presses when Juni collides with them. I didn't have a clear reason for adding them, but I thought creative people could find good uses for them. The arrow objects, 0:252-255, are not one-way objects, though they can be used to that effect.

For your other issue, there's a good reason the delete object doesn't work on those invisible blocks. They aren't there. The object is created when the screen is, but then it draws itself into the collision mask and destroys itself. If you use object 16:13, your gate will work correctly. This object only stops Juni, but you can layer on bird and creature blockers as well. By the way, that example is really neat.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: willxinc on January 22, 2013, 17:24:49
Thank you for creating such an amazing mod (Thanks to Nifflas as well for creating such an amazing game / editor).

As to Objects 0:248-255, that is really interesting, could be used for tutorials and such. Also, is it possible to make triggers linked to flags? (as in they only activate when a flag has or hasn't been triggered?).

Also thank's for your explanation on the invisible blocks, that's what I thought it was doing but I wasn't sure.
Something that'd be nice would be the ability to use even more tilesets   X-P
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: BloxMaster on January 22, 2013, 20:56:50
Unfortunately more tilesets per screen would totally break how the level's file format works.

I have my own suggestion..but obviously it'd be up to ego to implement it and only if he wanted to. All screens currently possess a few things (even if just zero or null): Tilesets, Ambiance, Music and the Gradient. My proposal is to override some/all of that based on a flag set.

Let's say a series of screens have Gradient 1. It makes it look daytime. Similarly, Tileset 1 is in use. It makes it look daytime. You get the idea.

A shift at some point in the level makes it 'nightime' by changing Gradient 1 to 2 in those screens, and Tileset 1 to 2 in those screens, by setting a flag. Here's what the ini pseudo code could look like:

Code: [Select]
[Flag 1]
Replace Gradient=1
Set Gradient=2
Replace TilesetA=1
Set TilesetA=2

It occurs to me this is easily done with shifts, warps, and duplicated screens, but it's really a mess sometimes. In anycase, I'm sure a practical balance for it could be reached.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 22, 2013, 23:23:40
That's an interesting idea BloxMaster, but it's easily done with duplicate screens. Also, consider that using duplicates screens allows you to change everything. Switch to nocturnal creatures. Change what NPCs say. Add flames to torches. Close drawbridges. etc.

@ Willxinc: Activating Triggers only if a Flag is on is already possible.
As long as the Shift that enables the Flag is on a different screen from the Trigger, it will work great.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on January 22, 2013, 23:24:18
About fonts: A Cyrillic font is already done, included in KS Ex.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: BloxMaster on January 22, 2013, 23:47:53
Yeah, that's why I wasn't really going to push the idea, Ego. It's a good idea, but not entirely useful or practical in most scenarios.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on January 25, 2013, 23:59:26
Just noticed that large objects used as foreground layers (like in BloxMaster's recently added An Attempt At Art) don't look in the editor how they will in the game, which was actually true in the old editor as well.  Is that an easy fix?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 26, 2013, 01:33:20
I knew about this, but I've never dug into that code. There's also a problem with custom objects in preview panels bleeding over. I guess I should make an attempt to fix it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on January 26, 2013, 04:05:51
Your a rock star dude.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 26, 2013, 12:48:01
I knew about this, but I've never dug into that code. ...
I'd completely forgot, but I had to dig into the visible Custom Object code to add the preview panels. It's intense! My brain is requesting a sabbatical after overhauling it again. I've also added buttons to clear tileset warnings. And, you can now safely open multiple instances of the program.

Get Level Editor Plus 0.9.1 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

Note: COs will only appear in the preview panels if they are set in the visible row or column. So, if you place a fullscreen CO in the center of a screen it will not appear in the preview panels of any adjacent screens.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on January 26, 2013, 16:25:53
I'm just amazed you keep going man.  That's why your a rockstar!  XD  Most people would have shrugged their shoulders and said, "oh well, I've done enough," or something like that.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 26, 2013, 18:50:00
As long as they have beta version numbers, I intend to fix any problems that arise. Thanks for pointing out the CO issue Headgrinder. I'd become so used to it that I didn't recognize it as a fault.

In case you missed it, Level Editor + 0.9.1 is available. (http://egomassive.com/ks)

On the topic of a Linux build. It's not working. I followed all the instructions --there weren't many, and the Linux build option doesn't appear. I don't know if the compiler is even compatible with all the extensions I've used, or where to find that information. My plan is to release the source files when I'm done with them. Maybe someone who knows more about it can make a Linux build.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on January 27, 2013, 04:42:13
I haven't tried Anaconda, but I remember reading some brief information about supported extensions on Anaconda page. If an extension isn't reimplemented in Anaconda, it won't work on Linux. A question remains whether it may work on Windows anyway after export. So, try building for Windows first.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Polana on January 27, 2013, 11:15:53
Thanks for trying it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on January 27, 2013, 19:34:51
So, this is an odd side thing that probably doesn't matter.  I was playing The Great Work, and opened KS+ to compare climb styles, and the ctrl+z zoom wouldn't work.  It was greyed out in the drop down menu.  Once I closed Great Work, it worked.  *shrug*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 27, 2013, 19:46:29
I guess I could have looked in the forums. ... After having to install a stupid extension viewing program, I was allowed to see a comprehensive list. This is what's missing:
Obviously, this isn't an important feature, so if I can figure out why Anaconda isn't working I can make a Linux build of KS+.

The level Editor is a different matter. It needs:
I'd have to cut-out and patch-up a considerably amount of the editor to work around these extensions. I wont be making a Linux export of the KS+ level editor. I believe Nifflas's original editor can be converted to Linux without changes. If I get KS+ working on Linux I may look into that.

@ Headgrinder: KS+ wont let you zoom if your screen size is too small. If you ran KU in fullscreen mode, then KS+ was probably reading the virtual dimensions KU imposed. Open KS+ first and you shouldn't have an problem, because it only checks your screen size when it initializes.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on February 03, 2013, 03:11:31
So I've tried a few things... updating kse+, looking for directions... and not finding them :/, and I can't get the level preview to work.  Any clues?  I'm running off a relatively fresh install, and haven't edited any ini files or renamed anything...
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 03, 2013, 06:38:55
@ Headgrinder: With a fresh install there should be no file editing or renaming. I'm doing a fresh install right now to make sure. In the mean time, the Readme.txt in the KS+091.zip* tells you how to install, which is mainly to install KS 1.2.1 first, then merge the "Knytt Stories" folder in KS+091.zip with it. To use Level Editor Plus simply open KSLE+091.zip* and drop the executable in your "Knytt Stories" folder. You must install KS and KS+ for full functionality.

* = Latest version at time of writing.

I'll update if I discover something during my fresh install.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on February 03, 2013, 22:05:03
I found the problem.  And I have a suggestion.  The problem is that the readme.txt says "If you want to make egomassive's mod your primary version of Knytt Stories, then open your Knytt Stories folder and rename "Knytt Stories.exe" to "Knytt Stories 121.exe"."  This causes the preview to not run.  Secondly, for my suggestion, I didn't have the readme.txt at first because when you open the ks+091.zip, the readme.txt and ks+ instructions.txt are not in the Knytt Stories directory which means they would be sitting in the Program Files directory if I simply copy the ks+ files over into the fresh install of Knytt Stories.  Yes, you have a KS+091 directory before that, but to install KS+ you have to start with a fresh installation of Knytt Stories, which means when I installed it, I just opened up the ks+ zip to Knytt Stories and copied what was in that into the fresh Knytt Stories directory and the .txt files got left behind.  So, in other words, I think there is some awkwardness happening here, though it could be just me.  I think you would be better off eliminating the Knytt Stories directory from the zip so that the .txt files are in with the rest (which is where I think most of us would want to keep them anyway) and either leave it up to the installer what to call the Knytt Stories + directory, or else include renaming the fresh Knytt Stories directory to something else in the directions.  And if we rename Kytt Stories Plus.exe to Knytt Stories.exe, is there a way to tell the editor to use that exe?  Can you include that in the readme.txt too?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 04, 2013, 00:30:05
Weird, I distinctly remember editing that part of the Readme, but it is as you say. I could probably drop the KS+091 folder, but it's my preference to have everything extract to one folder when I extract a zip file, and I think it's better to have the Readme and Instructions outside of the Knytt Stories folder to help them get noticed.

You don't need a separate or fresh install of KS to install KS+. This would be less desirable in most cases because KS level libraries can grow to several gigabytes. You wouldn't want to have two libraries for active use. The Data folders alone would be 30 redundant megabytes. There is the disadvantage that the extra KS+ objects will appear in the original editor. This design choice allows you to use the original editor to make KS+ levels if you wish. (Which is what the 3rd step in the Readme is mainly about --that and shortcuts.) Maybe I should add + symbols to KS+ objects to make the distinction easier on novices.

I'll fix the Readme for the next release. If anyone else has opinions on the structure of the zip file I'd like to have your input.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on February 04, 2013, 00:41:40
is there a way to tell the editor to use that exe?

1.Open the "Worlds\EditorSettings.temp" file in a text editor.
2.Change the "executable=" line in the [ego] group for the name of the KS+ exe.
3.Save
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on February 04, 2013, 12:56:13
I'll stand by your greater wisdom ego.  I just find it personally confusing is all, but I can deal.  XD 

Thanks firecat.  I'll probably just leave it the original name. 
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 05, 2013, 12:15:41
A new version of KS+ is out, 0.9.2. Get it at egomassive.com/ks (http://egomassive.com/ks).

While playing Cosmic Meltdown I discovered a few more issues with single-pass rendering. Spike-extending creatures could play their extending sound after screen changes if the hologram was preventing it before. Also, if you timed it right you could get 2 water creatures to rise if they existed on adjacent screens.

Font and umbrella templates were added. The Readme and Instructions files were updated. The zip file was rearranged after more contemplation over Headgrinder's thoughts.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on February 06, 2013, 15:22:33
I downloaded the new version you mentioned an hour ago and now whenever i try to make a new KS+ level for some reason it says "DirPacker Error: Directory exists". Did i do something wrong?

Edit: "Hour" being three hours.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 06, 2013, 21:52:12
@ ^: I didn't change anything in this release that should affect that. This error occurs if you try to create a new level but the folder "Nifflas - Template" already exists. If you do have a "Nifflas - Template" folder then something went wrong during the new level creation process. I can only guess at what might have caused this. Possibly the program terminated while making a new level, or the Template+.bin file was corrupted when you downloaded the latest version, or it was corrupted when I uploaded it.

Until I figure it out, try deleting the "Nifflas - Template" folder if it exists. Let me know what happens.

Edit: This is what I've found so far. If you create a level with a name that already exists, it will fail to rename "Nifflas - Template" to the name you chose. Then it opens the old level and pretends like nothing went wrong. But, the next time you create a level you'll get the "DirPacker Error: Directory exists" message. Does this sound like something you did StraightFlame?


Edit: A look at the code showed that I disabled the check that ensures you can't choose a level name that already exists. So if StraightFlame thinks this could have caused his problem, then I'll update the editor right away. *star to StraightFlame for bug find*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on February 08, 2013, 16:59:00
Ego, I'd like to bring this post to your attention:
http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=5470.msg62168#msg62168
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 08, 2013, 23:58:29
I noticed that too while playing Some Room recently. I made KS+ hide Juni when changing positions on a shift. Then, I made it happen when you scroll too. Both of these give a slight improvement. However, I must have made it happen on any screen change and that is clearly causing issues here.

Edit: Updated KS+ to 0.9.3 and KSLE+ to 0.9.2. Get them at egomassive.com/ks (http://egomassive.com/ks).
KS+ no longer hides the character on shifts without position change. So, Some Room looks fantastic especially with "single pass render" enabled in the menu. The level editor now prevents the error caused by starting a new level with the name of an existing level.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on February 09, 2013, 17:08:27
Using COs to replace the key graphics seems to be broken again, only the red key is working properly.
All the other keys just don't show up if you don't have them yet, but show up if you already have them (although you can't collect them).

EDIT: Well crap, it seems to happen to other power-ups too. Did the replacement method change?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 10, 2013, 01:25:07
What?! That's broken again! I must of had to backtrack to an earlier version at some point and lost that fix in the process. *sigh* If that's the case I'll have to see what else I changed around that time and make certain they're still there. Only 30 pages to sift through. :S

Edit: It was a different problem with OCO powers this time. So, I wont have to sift through this mega-thread. :) *star to Rai* Get KS+ 0.9.4 at egomassive.com/ks (http://egomassive.com/ks).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: toenail on February 12, 2013, 18:57:35
I think i found a new glitch. Nothing serious really.
There is apparently some sort of memory of the last character Juni changed into.
In my level, at some point, you play with a different character (using shift). Later in the level, you are back to the default Juni.
However, at some point, you go through a shift with a new character change (different than the first one).
For just a tiny blink, I can see the first character appearing before it gets replaced by the new one.

To make it clearer, here is the sequence of events :
Juni -> shift -> char 1 -> shift -> Juni -> shift -> (char 1) char 2

As I said, it is nothing much. I was just surprised to see for a split second char 1 instead of char 2.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 12, 2013, 20:54:17
Interesting. The old graphics do stay loaded until the custom character is used again. Since I don't have access to the inner workings of the program I probably can't fix it, but I've already thought of a work around.

I found an issue myself. For some reason, playing a cutscene in fullscreen mode disables zooming. I looked but I haven't tracked down the cause yet.

Edit: Fixed both bugs. Get KS+ 0.9.5 at egomassive.com/ks (http://egomassive.com/ks). *star to Toenail* It was easier to fix than I thought it would be. I set the custom character's scale to 0 which is a hacky way to imitate invisibility from inside the object. I wish I could convince CO's to update a frame sooner, but alas, it will never be. Although the screen size check was set to run only once, I had it in the global events loop. This allowed it to run again when switching to cutscenes. I moved the code to another section of the program, which fixed the issue.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Ink on February 17, 2013, 04:03:58
Is it possible to globally declare the overlay function or is it strictly a local bool?

Also, not sure if you saw this yet, ego.

Also, there seems to be a bug, perhaps with KS+, where going in between screens with the umbrella open, when there are a lot of "air-currents" on screen that there is a .25 second "lag" to load the screen.

Figured I'd mention it in case it is an issue with KS+.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on February 17, 2013, 04:47:02
I've noticed this too, on screens with a lot of waterfall objects. It appears to be a side-effect of single pass rendering, but it would be great if it could be fixed.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 18, 2013, 00:58:29
Single-pass rendering + too many objects = long screen load times. The length of the lag depends on the speed of your computer too. For original KS levels players can turn the single-pass feature off if they're experiencing problems.

I'm not sure there's a way to have constant load times and prevent object flash. I'd tell KS+ level designers to be aware of the issue and try to keep their object counts down, but that's a lousy solution. I'll have to give it some thought.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Ink on February 18, 2013, 13:57:40
Just tested a little bit. Made a screen completely covered with a waterfall object, a screen completely covered with the air current object, and a screen covered with both. The waterfall only screen had no lag. The screen with the air currents may have had a very very small amount of lag when loading. It was difficult to tell even after checking multiple times. The screen covered in both suffered some lag. It was enough that I could blink normally in the time it took to load. Not sure if this will help with anything but I figured I would share.

Edit: I also played DETM to the screen covered in fliers but there was no lag for that screen either.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 18, 2013, 18:00:09
GrayFace discovered that destroying lots of objects causes slowdown at screen change. If there was a giant waterfall on adjacent screens, the transition between them would be the worst case. I was having difficulties delaying object destruction, so I dropped the idea. This is probably where I should start speeding things up.

I could make a hybrid of the two rendering styles where if you exceed a set number of objects during the first pass it will wait until the second pass to finish rendering. The problem with this concept is the objects that flash most noticeably are often placed on layer 7 which is the last layer rendered. e.g. water blocks.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on February 19, 2013, 02:18:35
Oh, another thing I noticed that could possibly be fixed is that when you install a new level and then directly go to play it from that screen, it still loads all installed levels before pulling up the new level's info screen (for me this is a pretty big delay, haha). The search bar also appears during the load.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 20, 2013, 05:33:37
The info screen menu is part of the level selection menu. I'd have to write a separate initialization function, and then still be able to run the normal initialization function if you users click the "back" button. ... Or, I could change the "back" button so it returns you to the install screen. ... I may do this. No promises.

Edit: So, I've built a version where old objects are destroyed slowly after screen changes. It still isn't as fast as double-pass rendering (and it never will be,) but I think there might be a slight improvement over the current official version. It's hard to tell really. You can test it out yourself if you want. (http://egomassive.com/temp/KS+T.zip) Don't expect this version to be as bug free as the official.


Edit: Also, I've been reminded about the object flash that still occurs with CO's. Thus far I've considered that unfixable because the inner-workings of COs are hidden from me. I'll make an attempt to fix it just to be sure.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on February 21, 2013, 23:10:53
Oh, I for some reason had too much hope in my eyes and misread what you had been doing. I have now gotten my hopes down and back to where they were before, you don't really need to worry about what I misread.

But I guess to contribute, possibly: the single pass render fixes most of the tick problems because for most foreground COs I also use a copy of whatever it is in the tileset or gradient. I don't remember the single-pass render being available when I started the level but it stops the 6/7 CO tick on like 50% of cases when moving from screen to screen or at the very least makes it much, much less noticeable. Specifically, it seems to be at its worst when it's a shift on touch to a new screen. In fact if you execute the shift it almost never happens at all. I don't know if this is related or not but in the vanilla KS if there are many COs on screen say I made a handrail one block big and put like ten of them on screen the vanilla will load them only after showing a little red dot in their place for the first time (taking place of their complete absence if they weren't already drawn on the layers or gradient below 6/7?) Anyway, that doesn't ever happen on KS+ which is nice.

It's really nice of you just to look into it though but I don't expect anything. I'm sorry if I put you out with my less-than-casual understanding of what's being said in this thread.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 22, 2013, 01:54:38
It's really nice of you just to look into it though but I don't expect anything. I'm sorry if I put you out with my less-than-casual understanding of what's being said in this thread.
I've been working on this for so long that I don't notice some of the flaws anymore. Fresh perspectives are needed sometimes. There isn't any difference in the way layers 6/7 operate compared to 4/5. After making objects on 4/5, Juni is moved to the top of the object stack, then 6/7 are made. Since 6/7 are made last they probably update last, therefore the flaws are more noticeable.

If I ever make my own game/editor combo, I think I'll be doing some pre-rendering in the background. That wouldn't work for KS because of shifts and warps. I could pre-render the adjacent screens only to have the player teleported/warped/flag-warped somewhere else.

I'd like to restate that there's a test version using latent object deletion available in my last post. If parties interested in speedier screen changes could try it out, I'd appreciate your feedback.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on February 22, 2013, 12:54:45
I've got a small request and a idea.

1st, I almost always play ks+ in zoom mode, which right now meas I have to reclick the zoom button every time I play.  Is there anyway the setting for that could be saved?

2nd, I was thinking of an object mainly used in the back ground (oh... that might not work now that I think of it... objects being in the foreground and all) that uses something like an animation png, but which displays the frames not according to a time frame but according to where on the screen Juni is.  There could be a horizontal and a vertical object for this, and I suppose even one that does both.  This way, you could make at the least statues that look at Juni, or even characters which change their position as Juni approaches, but you could conceivably even make backgrounds that scroll just a bit to give greater depth. 

I thought of it when I was trying to find the most realistic way to have Juni run through a dark corridor into small lighted areas.  If there was a shadow in the foreground to darken everything except the light, then a slightly background object that was lighter and it moved with the character, that would make a really cool effect.  Anyhow...  Just an idea.  *shrug*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on February 22, 2013, 22:31:43
I'd like to restate that there's a test version using latent object deletion available in my last post. If parties interested in speedier screen changes could try it out, I'd appreciate your feedback.
I tried it out and it seemed faster for some screen changes but then hitched up really bad on one screen change with a moderate amount of custom objects and objects in general but other screens with a similar amount weren't reproducing this effect to me. I went from two screens of moderate to low amounts of objects/custom objects to a screen of moderate to large amount of custom objects when the hitching happened. I would guess that in most people's levels unless they were using tons of water/waterfall blocks this is unlikely to happen but I can't say for sure.

Overall it felt slightly faster but not fast enough for me to have noticed if I didn't know I was using that version, I only would've noticed the hitching moment on the one screen change. I'm not really interested in a faster screen change I just thought I'd test it out so that may have colored my opinion on whether or not it's truly that much faster.
2nd, I was thinking of an object mainly used in the back ground (oh... that might not work now that I think of it... objects being in the foreground and all) that uses something like an animation png, but which displays the frames not according to a time frame but according to where on the screen Juni is.  There could be a horizontal and a vertical object for this, and I suppose even one that does both.  This way, you could make at the least statues that look at Juni, or even characters which change their position as Juni approaches, but you could conceivably even make backgrounds that scroll just a bit to give greater depth.  

I thought of it when I was trying to find the most realistic way to have Juni run through a dark corridor into small lighted areas.  If there was a shadow in the foreground to darken everything except the light, then a slightly background object that was lighter and it moved with the character, that would make a really cool effect.  Anyhow...  Just an idea.  *shrug*
Ha, I was thinking about something like that a few days ago. I thought it would be cool to have a projector with a large shadow as Juni runs by it. I settled on the idea of having it hang from the ceiling, 2d from left to right (as if you're looking in on a classroom from its side and you can't see the projection, just the light sending it to the wall/etc), and only have the "shadow" take effect as a shift on touch if you jump up in front of the projector and go away with another shift on touch as you go back down. It doesn't really accomplish the effect of movement but it at least allows the player to think that there's some lighting effect, no matter how primitive.

If ego could get something like that to work you could use it for reflections in mirrors, glass and water as well and theoretically, my long coveted parallax scrolling. It sounds a bit far-fetched though. I just thought it was funny that we were probably thinking about the same type of Knytt Stories thing at nearly the same time.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: willxinc on February 23, 2013, 04:08:05
To add onto what the previous 2 people are saying, it'd probably be nice to have a few more objects that do basic motions (follow Juni only horizontally, vertically etc, move in a direction and warp screen etc.) and then use the custom object mechanism you added to create replacements, resulting in a lot more possibilities with custom objects.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 23, 2013, 05:40:22
@ Willxinc: There are objects that follow Juni, 4:1 and 4:2. How are these not adequate? I don't know what you mean by "warp screen". It would be nice to have objects that run from her though.

@ Headgrinder: Your idea for objects that change based on Juni's location is an intriguing one. As I understand it, I'm afraid the execution will be difficult. I'm thinking the number of frames of animation would be huge. Say the character is followed by the head of a statue as they walk from left to right. How many frames would you need for this to be smooth? 25 tiles by 4 frames per tile may be minimally sufficient. 100 frames is a daunting number for custom graphics makers. I think the effective simplicity of objects like 3:14 is fine for the sprite size. I suppose there could be a vertical version.

I could totally do parallax backgrounds. It's a simple concept; put the background image on another layer* and if it's wider than the screen scroll it. The reason I haven't added it is because the foreground doesn't scroll. Parallax scrolling is only effective when the foreground is scrolling faster than the background. To have the back move faster than the front would look surreal, like the background was actually moving rather than our perspective of it.

*engine layer, not editor layer.

I have tired to make a darkening effect that allows for sources of light. Everything I've come up with so far has been too much of a burden on performance, or looked terrible. You can get really effective dark areas by overlaying tiles, but this doesn't allow for a bright spot around the character.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on February 23, 2013, 11:01:03
Parallax scrolling is only effective when the foreground is scrolling faster than the background. To have the back move faster than the front would look surreal, like the background was actually moving rather than our perspective of it.

I agree... I'm a little baffled by the parallax requests. Super Crate Box is the one game I know that combines a static camera with parallax backgrounds, and it doesn't look especially good,

I have tired to make a darkening effect that allows for sources of light. Everything I've come up with so far has been too much of a burden on performance, or looked terrible. You can get really effective dark areas by overlaying tiles, but this doesn't allow for a bright spot around the character.

Would it be possible to allow the use of a 600x240 custom object that's a darkened version of the room (or just black, or translucent black) and to generate a circle (perhaps make a variety of styles and sizes available) around Juni that displays what's underneath? Like an alpha mask, or something? Or is that too intensive, or impossible? I think this would be the most versatile method.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on February 23, 2013, 11:57:05
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what parallax scrolling is, but anyway I wasn't really suggesting or requesting it as a feature I was just talking. Just something I'd like to be able to do. I assume parralax scrolling is different background layers moving at different speeds based on the players movement.

I was thinking about using it in specific cases, not for every screen. Like areas transitioning to another with the movement being overally exaggerated. The "real" play area wouldn't include this but say you're walking and suddenly the desert area goes into something that's a transition screen to another area. So in that area it appears as if you're moving a lot more than in any previous area because the background moves along with you and then when you are in the next "real" area it again appears without parallax. And a warp heading the other direction to reverse the parallax to go the other way so that two different parallax background screens would comprise a sort of transitional screen like when you take the elevators in 2d metroid games. I don't know if I'm explaining this correctly, it's been a long night... but again, not an actual request. I was just speaking extemporaneously in response to Headgrinder. Please ignore me.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Ink on February 23, 2013, 21:00:22
So this has nothing to do with the current discussion but with screen tinting. There's no documentation for it (that I could find). I checked it out in the feature demonstration but it wasn't very clear. I had do some trial and error to figure it out. Can you add documentation for it in the KS+ instructions, ego?

For anyone that doesn't already know: it works the same way as other custom colour things (like custom fades or custom colour nature effects).

An example for a grey screen tint:

[x1000y1000]
Tint=10066329

This will tint x1000y1000 and all adjacent screens. Which means it will tint every screen in the level because it tints any screen adjacent to a tinted screen. Unless you set Tint=0 to any adjacent screens you don't want tinted. Took me a little to figure that part out even after looking at the feature demonstration.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: willxinc on February 23, 2013, 22:42:48
Ah, didn't actually see those objects, good to know ego.
Anyways when I say warp, I mean it goes left or right, similar to object 2:31 but doesn't just disappear till the entire sprite is off-screen (currently using those as clouds and it's really distracting when half of a cloud disappears and re-appears on the other side of the room).

Another note, what about an object that is exactly where juni is, (no follow speed, it's just instantly there)?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on February 24, 2013, 05:48:55
This will tint x1000y1000 and all adjacent screens. Which means it will tint every screen in the level because it tints any screen adjacent to a tinted screen. Unless you set Tint=0 to any adjacent screens you don't want tinted. Took me a little to figure that part out even after looking at the feature demonstration.

Rather than "adjacent screens", perhaps it applies a tint to the whole game until it's told to tint otherwise? It could be unintentional as well...
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 24, 2013, 07:22:58
Tint is enabled and disabled similar to a flag. The intended usage is to enable it at all entrances to a tinted area. You will also need to disable it (or change it) at all exits. I set it up this way to keep the World.ini smaller --large World.ini files affect performance. There are tool tips in the editor, but they're overly simplified. *star to PI for discovering this oversight* Here's the entry I'll be adding to the instructions txt:
Spoiler: instructions (click to show/hide)
Interesting fact: The opacity was chosen based on Super Juniland by Jerom (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=4934.msg53845#msg53845), and I'm quite tempted to re-release it as a KS+ level utilizing the feature that it inspired.

@Willxinc: Ah. I see. That cloud idea of yours was pretty neat, but I'm not convinced I should make an object specifically for that purpose. I'm also skeptical of the usefulness of an object that is attached to the player's position. Maybe you could tell me why you want it? For the things you want to do it sounds like you want programmable objects. KS Extended may be a better fit for your needs.

@Plural: You are officially being ignored even though I think you're brilliant and should be listened to.

@Sergio: The alpha adjusting tools at my disposal are limited. I don't think I can add or subtract from the alpha channel. This discussion has given me a new idea to try though. edit: I hate MMF! I found an extension that's supposed to be capable of creating these effects, but it wont run. And, Clickteam has decided to archive their forums so that Google gives me nothing but dead links! >(


Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: willxinc on February 24, 2013, 17:57:51
Essentially, you create a custom object that's 2x the screen size (in width and height) that way no matter where it is, it's always filling the screen and then in the centre you create a radial gradient going from transparent to black. I currently have one created and set to 2:32 which kinda works but is slightly behind the player when moving. (Set on layer 7 so that it doesn't kill player and with the gradient it causes a lightning effect.)
Spoiler: Screenshot here (click to show/hide)

As to the usefulness of an object attached to the player's co-ordinates. It wouldn't just be 1 object, there'd be 3 variations of it; one where it's always exactly where the player is, another where the x is where the player's is and the y is where it was placed, and lastly one with the player's y and original x. The one where the player is exactly is demonstrated above. As to the one's only following 1 axis you could design shadows, reflections etc.

Also, there's a-lot of unused banks, perhaps you could allow us to use even more for custom objects?

Oh and lastly, something interesting would be to add a switch to change the drawing blend mode of layers, not sure if you can do that in MMf though.

Anyways, these are just random suggestions, still an amazing mod.

Edit: So apprently KS Ex (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=4253.0) has a few of the features I want (darkness etc), as well as lua which would mean that I'd be able to hack in nearly anything I could think of. I was actually looking into it before I started using KS+ the issue is that it contains the lua scripting language which some people might not be comfortable with. Also is the fact that massive amounts of scripting probably wouldn't have a very good performance impact
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on February 25, 2013, 02:02:32
I think I understand your point about a moving background with a still forground... yeah that would be weird.  And the objects might in deed need hundreds of frames.  It was just an idea anyway.  What about an object that scrolled a png according to where Juni is?  Again, just an idea.  Then, it could scroll eyes, a light, etc., back and forth according to Juni's movement.  

Ha!  Sorry, don't know why I'm trying to suggest this.  I just think it would be cool I guess.  :oops:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 26, 2013, 14:34:19
I've released an official update, KS+ 0.9.6 (http://egomassive.com/ks). This includes Sergio's suggestion for faster starts from installs --it wont read in your whole library before letting you play. And, I've tweaked an idea posed by Willxinc to allow you to change the way Tints are applied to the screen. You can Add, Subtract, And, Or, or X-Or the Tint to everything below. Also, you can change the alpha of the Semi-Transparency from 0 to 128. Details are in the Instructions.

I'll be updating the Editor and the Features Demonstration in the near future to reflect the addition of advanced Tinting. I've also realized that I forgot to include a way to make harmful OCOs safe using the script dialogues.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on February 26, 2013, 14:49:08
Any chance of "zoom" being saved after closing the program?  :D  I don't think I saw you respond to that one.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: willxinc on February 26, 2013, 16:02:48
Well that was interesting, I was more referring to layers being added / subtracted (transparencies) rather then the tint's, ah well this is interesting.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 26, 2013, 21:34:33
Ah, I see Willxinc. As I mentioned before, the software this is made with has almost no ability to work with the alpha channel. If I can get the Surface Object extension to work, then I plan to allow designers to create masks to poke holes in the Tint --which is why I laid some of the ground work with the Tint itself. I'll also let you attach an object/mask to the player.

Headgrinder, I was totally going to do that, but I couldn't remember what it was I was going to do! I'll save the zoom setting in the next release. When multiple people complain about something, it's a good indication that it needs improvement. I use Ctrl+Z to change the scale and it doesn't annoy me at all, but I can see how it would be a pain if you prefer to use the menu.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: rainulous on February 26, 2013, 22:11:19
Feature request: Full screen changes the resolution, as in standard KS. Would there be a way to have it so the mod would zoom, then go full screen so there's less/no blur? I prefer distraction-less full screen, but the it resizes all my windows in the process.
Also, it's worth mentioning that this works exceptionally well in Ubuntu with Wine. A few minor graphical bugs, but nothing too noticable.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: willxinc on February 26, 2013, 23:51:28
According to this (http://dark-wire.com/store/extlist.php)
It was written by Looki, who's on this forum, or am I mistaken?.
Also, official help file for the extension is here (http://clickteam.info/looki/Help/Surface/)
As well as a dead topic here (http://community.clickteam.com/showthread.php?t=59577) with different versions of it. (dead as in not posted in for a few years.)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 27, 2013, 10:06:18
Thanks Willxinc. The problem is there's something wrong with the installation of MMF2 I'm using. Anything that uses an executable to install extensions tells me MMF2 isn't installed. I have a similar issue with updates. This extension simply doesn't work on it. The program crashes if I open a file containing the extension, and the extension doesn't appear in the extension list. MMF2 is installed on someone else's machine so I hesitate to do too much. Possibly one of the older versions of the extension will work which could save me from these issues.

Thanks for the info Rainulous. I can't get the Linux exporter to work for the same reasons as explained above. Chances are there would be graphical glitches in a native version. ... The ability to scale and zoom in the same MMF2 program is an insane hack. I have tried to include your request in the past and become boggled by the complexity of the issue.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on February 27, 2013, 10:49:31
Quote
Thanks for the info Rainulous. I can't get the Linux exporter to work for the same reasons as explained above. Chances are there would be graphical glitches in a native version. ... The ability to scale and zoom in the same MMF2 program is an insane hack. I have tried to include your request in the past and become boggled by the complexity of the issue.
Ah, I was wondering about the full screen mode too, as it is all stretched out on my pc and doesn't look good.
Quote
I use Ctrl+Z to change the scale and it doesn't annoy me at all, but I can see how it would be a pain if you prefer to use the menu.
I use that too at times, but my point is I always play in zoom, and I get tired of having to hit an extra key to play.  :shrug:  I'm grateful your fixing it though!  :D
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 01, 2013, 17:55:34
I have good news and bad news. I will let you choose which to read first.
Spoiler: Bad News (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Good News (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on March 02, 2013, 14:10:37
Sorry for your fed-upness.  Your extremely patient for sticking with this so long.  I'm liking the good news!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on March 02, 2013, 16:46:28
Could it be possible to put a CO on the same layer as the tint (As in, to render it over the solid color and then apply the ink effects to the result)? I think i could use that as a workaround for the lighting effects.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 04, 2013, 17:10:32
I present to you KS+ 0.9.7 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

I decided to use a static image for the Attachments. This way you can have custom Attachments without them being affected by object flash. For complete instructions see the Instructions text included with KS+. The basics are that they are enabled and disabled the way Tints are. Use Attach=True or Attach=MyImage.png to activate or change the Attachment. Use Attach=False to disable the attachment. The default Attachment creates a primitive torch effect. I don't think my default Attachment is ideal, so I will accept contributions for a better one.

The "Hide Desktop" function can be activated with the menu, with F11, or with Ctrl+X. It can be deactivated with Esc (Escape), with F11, or with Ctrl+X. You cannot enter Fullscreen mode while it is active, but you can change the Zoom level.

When testing from the editor the remembered Zoom level will be used, however it will not remember what you change it to while testing. Also, "Hide Desktop" does not work in test mode.

@Firecat: I've worked on "torches" some more and come so very close, but no, I can't make anything I'm satisfied with. With Overlay active layer 7 is applied over the new Attachment feature. You might be able to create something convincing with CO's.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: willxinc on March 04, 2013, 19:36:42
Just a note about your instructions, shouldn't the image size be 1200*480? (seeing as the screen is 600*240)

Great work though, sorry to hear about the extensions though, was looking forward to alpha blend-modes.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 04, 2013, 20:40:32
Just a note about your instructions, shouldn't the image size be 1200*480? (seeing as the screen is 600*240)
A margin is necessary because when Juni travels off screen the room does not change until the next frame. If she's traveling fast she can move a few pixels in a single frame. So, if your Attachment is exactly twice the screen size, there's a chance of a line of background showing. The vertical dimension has a larger margin because she can move faster vertically.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: ixMarcel on March 04, 2013, 21:33:55
Is there a way to upgarde the KS+ mod without downloading all the "Objects" folder stuff itc. ? Just the needed files? If You can do it: I suggest You to make something like update option in menu of Knytt Stories  ;). Or alternative download for those who already have KS+.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 05, 2013, 01:52:37
Is there a way to upgarde the KS+ mod without downloading all the "Objects" folder stuff itc. ? Just the needed files? If You can do it: I suggest You to make something like update option in menu of Knytt Stories  ;). Or alternative download for those who already have KS+.
Those other files don't amount to much. If I compress just the executable it's 4 MB compared to 4.4 MB. I'm all about saving bandwidth, but this is too little to fuss over. I used to have the example levels included, so it could be worse. I am considering moving the OCO templates to a separate download, but not until I make the rest of them.

As for adding a different update feature to KS+, I'd rather not. I don't plan to make any updates after the end of this school term. Moreover, I wont be able to update since my access to MMF2 is drying up. I'm at a point where I should stop adding features. From here on it should be bug fixes only.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on March 05, 2013, 02:21:29
This is going to be awesome!@!#@!!!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on March 06, 2013, 07:18:02
This is amazing. I never realized how much more immersive an experience the zoom could be with the hide desktop option. Also the fact that it removes the border makes it soooo much easier to align things with the edges (exposing my hideous misalignment in Orientation that Sergio kept pointing out but I couldn't perceive correctly until turning on the "hide desktop" option and removing the borders).

Also, I don't know if this is with the current version or just KS+ in general but I created a series of images that use a layer 7 co to hide Juni and then two shifts (shift-on-touch) on either side to "select" the previous or next screen. In 1.2.1 the tick before the layer 7 CO is loaded is always there but it is almost never there in the newest KS+, I wish I had tested these screens in the last version before updating to this one to know if it was recent changes but it's amazing how it's nearly imperceptible and I'm always looking for it. I just want to say thank you for this. Without this I probably would have given up on this level a long time ago. I'm seriously considering making the level KS+ only even though I can't think of an overriding feature that I need it's just that it loads the COs so much faster.

Great work.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 06, 2013, 14:53:40
@ Plural: I'm glad to hear it's loading faster. There is a speed improvement in 0.9.7 that I haven't mentioned. Sounds are always loaded on the second rendering pass now. I realized quite suddenly that there was no reason to update atmosphere and music on the first pass, and it is a big source of slowdown for me. Incidentally, slow object deletion hasn't made it to the official releases, because I can't detect a performance increase, but I fear many bugs with that feature. It's also likely that Windows runs faster in "Hide Desktop" mode.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 07, 2013, 09:13:30
Playing with tints and attachments has made me very excited about working with this mod.

I found a bug that you probably couldn't test for. When the game starts and zoom was last set to 3x, the menu initially appears in the corner of the window and it sometimes fails to load levels. This is not an issue for 2x zoom.

Finally, I've found the inclusion of room co-ordinates when testing levels really helpful. What do you think about also including them when playing levels normally when cheat mode is enabled? It would save me time when beta testing levels for others.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 07, 2013, 16:25:05
I found a bug that you probably couldn't test for. When the game starts and zoom was last set to 3x, the menu initially appears in the corner of the window and it sometimes fails to load levels. This is not an issue for 2x zoom.
I had a similar problem with 2x zoom. I had to reorganize the zooming handlers to add the remembered zoom and hide-desktop features. Surprisingly, the remembered zoom level was the most problematic. When starting in 3x zoom it skips the 2x zoom stage which wasn't possible before, hence I'm not surprised. I never figured out why starting with mixed zoom levels breaks the level selection menu, but that problem disappears when it zooms correctly.

Finally, I've found the inclusion of room co-ordinates when testing levels really helpful. What do you think about also including them when playing levels normally when cheat mode is enabled? It would save me time when beta testing levels for others.
That's a good idea. Beta testing and bug reporting are better done with coordinates. It would be better if you didn't have to sift through a level in the editor to find them. I wouldn't want to put it in cheat mode because you'd have to know the cheat code to use the feature. I don't want to let players access test mode either because they could find secrets by revealing the collision mask. ... I'll think of something.

Edit: Here's KS+ 0.9.8 (http://egomassive.com/ks)! It hopefully fixes the 3x zoom issue without breaking anything else. (I don't have a monitor large enough to test 3x zoom. :/ ) I'm not sure what was wrong with it, but I've reworked and simplified the sections of the program that deal with zooming, fullscreen, initializing, and test mode. Incidentally I fixed a bug with exiting fullscreen mode when opening the installation menu that I added in the last version. Oops!

You can toggle the screen coordinates with the F12 key in normal an test modes.

*gives star to Sergio for bug report*


Edit: Found a bug while playing "Cosmic Meltdown". Having multiple objects 6:9 and turning off the hologram near one, causes them all to shoot. Seems to work correctly if you approach without the hologram. Will fix it, but until then, if you're playing "Cosmic Meltdown" with KS+ you'll have to switch to original KS for the last section.


Edit: Level Editor Plus is updated to include support for the new Attachment and Tint features, 0.9.3. It also has a check box to make OCOs harmless. I discovered a bug with the Attachments. They couldn't be turned off! I'm not sure how that one got by me. Anyway, KS+ 0.9.8b is available with a fix for that. Get them both at egomassive.com/ks (http://egomassive.com/ks). The 6:9 bug I mentioned earlier hasn't been fixed yet.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on March 09, 2013, 23:05:51
For some reason I can't test levels from the editor. I click the 'test' button, set Juni's starting point, and then the game fails to open. I've just re-downloaded both the editor and the game but it hasn't fixed the problem.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 10, 2013, 01:26:50
For some reason I can't test levels from the editor. I click the 'test' button, set Juni's starting point, and then the game fails to open. I've just re-downloaded both the editor and the game but it hasn't fixed the problem.

To into 'Worlds/EditorSettings.temp' and make sure the information matches the name of your Knytt Stories Plus executable. It should probably look like this:

[ego]
Executable=Knytt Stories Plus.exe
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on March 10, 2013, 02:30:40
That got it; cheers, Sergio.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on March 11, 2013, 08:59:15
Okay, wow.  You've actually reignited my desire to create a KS level with this mod, I love it so darn much.  It won't be Pouring (yet) but it'll be neat, I promise!

(Oh, by the way, I can't seem to adjust the screen tint transparency.  In fact, there doesn't seem to be any difference between any of the "Ink" settings....  Am I missing something?)  Solved!  I am a sillyhead and my Knytt Stories + was not updated.

Edit: (And also, would it be possible to have an inverse Area Ambiance object?  One that mutes the sound as you get closer to it?)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 11, 2013, 12:11:51
Edit: (And also, would it be possible to have an inverse Area Ambiance object?  One that mutes the sound as you get closer to it?)

Can't you just achieve that by putting objects everywhere except the area where you want there to be no sound?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on March 11, 2013, 12:42:38
Can't you just achieve that by putting objects everywhere except the area where you want there to be no sound?
Theoretically yes, but it could become a slight issue if your screen is already loaded with Custom Objects.  It's less a thing of necessity and more one of convenience.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 11, 2013, 16:01:02
@Ultigonio: I can't see an area ambiance mute getting a lot of use. I can't even think of a good way to use it. I was going to suggest crickets, but they don't fade out; they stop abruptly when you approach. Could you could tell me how you would use it?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 11, 2013, 16:26:28
Bizarre new low-priority bug: tutorial button disabled when booting game on either 2x or 3x zoom.

And another: when dying with coordinates enabled, text doesn't disappear and overlaps with coordinates for room Juni respawns in.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on March 11, 2013, 17:57:05
@Ultigonio: I can't see an area ambiance mute getting a lot of use. I can't even think of a good way to use it. I was going to suggest crickets, but they don't fade out; they stop abruptly when you approach. Could you could tell me how you would use it?
The first thing that comes to mind is that it could make it so I wouldn't have to cover the screen with area ambiance objects, except for where I don't want the ambiance to be.  As I said earlier, this is more of a point of convenience than actual necessity, but I could imagine a (rare) case where it'd be a hindrance not to have a single object for a muting area.

Another idea it gives me is, say you have a sort of bar setting, where there's hi-fi music playing from a band or something like that, but as you get closer to this jukebox, you can hear that it's playing the same track, but lo-fi, and as you get closer to the jukebox, the band fades out and the jukebox fades in, and they do this smoothly so you get a sort of dynamic music effect that usually isn't possible in KS.  This could probably still be achieved by smothering the rest of the screen with the area ambiance objects, but the transition would be much smoother and more even this way, I imagine.  I can't 100% guarantee I'd use this particular idea, and even if I did I'd have to refine it so it actually made sense, but if I can come up with that off the top of my head, I can guarantee you I'd get leverage out of it some way or another (though, sadly, that isn't to say anyone else would).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Marximillian on March 11, 2013, 18:09:08
@Ultigonio: I can't see an area ambiance mute getting a lot of use. I can't even think of a good way to use it. I was going to suggest crickets, but they don't fade out; they stop abruptly when you approach. Could you could tell me how you would use it?
Couldn't you use something like that to make it sound like ambiance from a prior source is fading out, as if going toward the existing object is synonymous with going away from a source of sound?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on March 11, 2013, 19:21:34
The only thing I can think of for wanting an ambiance mute block is so you could have two single sound effects within one screen by using music and the ambiance mute block everywhere but where you want the sound effect to happen. But if you only want one sound effect per screen you can achieve that by using it as music and using a shift that has the stop music checkbox selected everywhere but where you want the sound to be on that screen. You could possibly achieve two or more sound effects by using room duplication and shifting to a duplicate room once the first sound effect plays and then having more shifts with stop music selected and another break where you want the next sound effect to be. The only thing you lose is putting actual music as the "music" instead of as an ambiance so you can have it fade out.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 11, 2013, 22:07:36
... The only thing you lose is putting actual music as the "music" instead of as an ambiance so you can have it fade out.
There is a little known setting for slow fade ambiance. It's an original KS feature. It's ideal when dedicating an ambiance track to music use, though I can't say I'm aware of anyone ever using it.
[world]
AmbiFade(A)=Slow
AmbiFade(B)=Slow
"Slow" is the only accepted value. I should put some check-boxes for this in my editor.

@ Ultigonio: I understand that it would be easier and more accurate to cross-fade ambiance to point on the screen if there was an object that faded ambiance out as you approached. However, it's possible ,if uglier/clumsier, with the tools I've already given you. Cross-fading is a bonus usage of the area ambiance object anyway, I'm not convinced we need more tools dedicated to this purpose.

I'm more interested in building tools you can make good games with than tools you can do neat tricks with. I'm not against you using the tools I provide in creative ways, but my focus should be on features that can benefit the most designers for the most levels. Actually, that was my focus. Now, the focus is working out the bugs before this school term ends since I will be unable to fix them after that time.

Edit: Fixed the tutorial button error which incidentally also broke the credits. I don't know why it wasn't working. It should have worked. It's quite worrying actually. I fear for the stability of other parts of the program. It seems the "Start of Frame" conditional is unreliable under circumstances I can't determine. No updates at this time.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on March 12, 2013, 01:03:48
I'm more interested in building tools you can make good games with than tools you can do neat tricks with. I'm not against you using the tools I provide in creative ways, but my focus should be on features that can benefit the most designers for the most levels. Actually, that was my focus. Now, the focus is working out the bugs before this school term ends since I will be unable to fix them after that time.
Absolutely!  I was just asking.  What you've provided is more than enough to do a lot of cool, unique stuff with, so I'm perfectly satisfied with it as-is.

Quote from: egomassive
There is a little known setting for slow fade ambiance. It's an original KS feature. It's ideal when dedicating an ambiance track to music use, though I can't say I'm aware of anyone ever using it.
[world]
AmbiFade(A)=Slow
AmbiFade(B)=Slow
"Slow" is the only accepted value. I should put some check-boxes for this in my editor.
Also, this is fantastic to know about.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 12, 2013, 04:10:15
Using TintInk=Add completely disables background darkening for the map and inventory, though the anti-aliasing of the question mark graphic remains intact. Could there be some issue with your use of pure black here?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on March 12, 2013, 10:32:08
I don't know if this has been asked or can't be done but I'm curious about a way to change how a sign looks. Not the font but the actual image and/or color to the sign. I've been thinking that it would be a nice feature to be able to change the background color at least for certain signs on a certain screen so that you could say have certain characters have red backgrounds to their speech or something like that. I suppose it could be like a tint where you define the color for sign a, b, or c.

If it can't be done, I understand. I just saw that there was some sign stuff that was tinkered with in KS+ and it occurred to me, making a connection to a comic, that it would be cool if you could have signs look like word balloons instead, though the way they increase in size with the increase in text makes me doubtful of that. But comics also have some characters have like red word balloons to signify that they speak differently and I thought that would be a cool addition. It would be much easier to differentiate between what is speech, a sign, a tutorial instruction, etc.

Along the same lines I was wondering if it would be possible to specifically assign font on a screen by screen basis. So you could even further differentiate between things by having each of those separate uses for the sign be a different font as well. That's more secondary than the other request though. And all of this could be done with custom objects if it's not possible so it's really just a way to make things more simple for me in the long run.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 12, 2013, 12:16:14
Something I noticed regarding room-load-lag (which has improved!) is that most times it occurs for me are when every tile is filled with waterfall objects to simulate rain.

I don't know a lot about how Knytt Stories loads rooms, but... if it all takes place within one frame like I think, would it theoretically be faster to load if it kept all of the waterfall objects intact instead of destroying and recreating them?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 12, 2013, 16:58:35
@ Sergio: Using TintInk effects disables the darkening that occurs when when opening the map or inventory. That darkening happens to be the tint. I was afraid that switching it back to semi-transparent would break the atmosphere of a level using ink effects. I thought I took care of that antialiasing on the question mark, but you're right, it still needs to be fixed.

@ Plural: It's not probably not going to happen. Changing the background image of the sign would be difficult because of the way the sign is programmed. Even changing the color is problematic because it has antialiasing in the corners (although I do like that idea.) Changing the font room by room is another feature I don't think would see much use. Making fonts is hard work. I'll let you in on a secret...
Spoiler: a secret (click to show/hide)
ETA: Funny thing, I was considering allowing images to be shown with the signs. That way you could have pictures of who's talking with expressions. I scrapped the idea mainly because Nifflas was including a similar feature in KU, and I felt I would be encroaching on the new product.

Something I noticed regarding room-load-lag (which has improved!) is that most times it occurs for me are when every tile is filled with waterfall objects to simulate rain.

I don't know a lot about how Knytt Stories loads rooms, but... if it all takes place within one frame like I think, would it theoretically be faster to load if it kept all of the waterfall objects intact instead of destroying and recreating them?
That is true, but I have no idea how to accomplish it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: willxinc on March 13, 2013, 00:44:03
There is a little known setting for slow fade ambiance. It's an original KS feature. It's ideal when dedicating an ambiance track to music use, though I can't say I'm aware of anyone ever using it.
[world]
AmbiFade(A)=Slow
AmbiFade(B)=Slow
"Slow" is the only accepted value. I should put some check-boxes for this in my editor.

Oh god what, this exists!?
Wait, so does it apply to the entire world, or is it possible to disable on a per-room basis?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 13, 2013, 07:01:46
@ Willxinc: Slow fade ambiance applies to the whole level.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 13, 2013, 09:55:26
I was afraid that switching it back to semi-transparent would break the atmosphere of a level using ink effects.

Hmm, I understand... but is there any chance you could make the switch optional? I'm experimenting with using some very subtle* tints and I think the total lack of darkness on the map screen actually manages to be more jarring.

* If you're interested, try this mild sunlight: Tint=530464 TintInk=Add
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 13, 2013, 19:22:07
@ Sergiocornaga: I see. I knew disabling the darkening was a quick fix, but I didn't want to lose the elegance of using one object to serve both purposes. I thought Tint Inks would see marginal use, but thanks to your example I've realized Add and Subtract can make far better day and night masks than semi-transparency, and I can see that being used a bunch. I'll probably have to split the Tint and Map functions into 2 objects.

Edit:Get KS+ 0.9.9 (http://egomassive.com/ks) We're almost out of beta! :shocked: I better do some rigorous testing before I make the next update. Here's what's new:

Edit:Get Level Editor + 0.9.4 (http://egomassive.com/ks) This is a small update to add the slow-fade-ambiance options to the dialogues. It's on the World tab.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on March 16, 2013, 12:06:28
I've not been keeping track up this for a while so I hope I'm not too late to report a bug in the game.

If you use the old third party tools to change Juni's colour, and then activate the hologram, the hologramatic version uses the default sprite colours. (This isn't the case in the original game; I checked it just now).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 16, 2013, 15:25:06
If you use the old third party tools to change Juni's colour, and then activate the hologram, the hologramatic version uses the default sprite colours.
I'll look into it. Originally I added the Knytt from Knytt as a second built-in character. He had color swapping too, so this probably broke when I later removed him in favor of custom characters.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: rainulous on March 16, 2013, 17:40:02
Wait, Knytt was a built-in character? Is there a way to still have him as the character?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Ink on March 16, 2013, 18:39:38
Just checking to make sure this isn't a small bug but ...

The F12 coordinates toggle won't actually toggle unless you move to a new screen or die. Is it supposed to behave like this or is it supposed to toggle on and off regardless?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on March 16, 2013, 21:46:10
Ok, here is a long shot, probably too hard to fix issue:  what are the chances you could fix the wallswimish bug that happens when using tilesets with angles, such that if you are going up a ramp into an adjacent screen that continues the ramp, you end up in the floor?  I was thinking if the game could load the first row of tiles of each adjacent screen "off camera" so to speak, the game would know where to put the character on the next screen. 

Meh... that will probably be too much work and will slow down performance.  :/  :shrug:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on March 16, 2013, 22:15:30
Wait, Knytt was a built-in character? Is there a way to still have him as the character?

Check the Features Demo or the Character Collection (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=5635.0) for the Knytt spritesheet. It's not exactly ``Built-in but it works well.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 16, 2013, 22:32:38
@ Purple Ink: The object that I use to show the coordinates has issues with disappearing. Something else has to cause the screen to refresh, like the edge highlight object. I was surprised that it was working like it should, but I think I must have been testing it with Tints enabled which would make me miss these issues.

@ Headgrinder: I don't think I can draw collision masks outside of the screen. It would also slow down the rendering process which is the last thing I want.

@ Rainulous: Yes. Refer to the Ship Parts level found on the page where you get KS+ (http://egomassive.com/ks). You can play as the Knytt in that level. Also, there are instructions on custom characters in the KS+ Instructions.txt included with the KS+ download. As Firecat pointed out, the Features Demonstration can help too because it features in game character switching.

Edit: Progress Report: I've adjusted the up and Down Key Press Objects as well as added a Block User object to prevent players from messing up choreographed sequences. I found the problem with applying skin and clothing colors to the hologram. Currently I'm testing every OCO. It's pretty tedious work, but I've already discovered a few errors so it's time well spent. I haven't worked on the F12 coordinates issue yet.


Edit: Progress Report: I've finished all the testing I had planned, but I lost some of my progress at some point. So, I'm going to double check everything. Showing coordinates shouldn't be a problem anymore.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 21, 2013, 22:43:02
KS+ is officially out of beta! Get Knytt Stories Plus 1.0 (http://egomassive.com/ks)
OK, I really just ran out of beta version numbers, but I had to do it at some point. This version includes:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: willxinc on March 22, 2013, 01:25:57
Woahhhhhhhhhhh.
Well that was unexpected, you know you could've just did 0.10.1 right?
Ah well, testing and good job as usual.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on March 22, 2013, 14:40:29
I think it wold be a interesing addition if you could make an object to only block the W / D keys, so you could control the hologram / umbrella on an otherwise interactive sequence.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: SecretGlitch on March 22, 2013, 16:13:55
Don't know if this was covered or not, or if it's a problem or just something that has to be like this, but spawn blocks only work for the highest value spawn placed on the screen. As in, if you had the A, B, and C triggers on the same screen and the A, B, and C spawn on the same screen, only the C spawn block would work. And if only A and B are on the same screen, only the B spawn block would work. Otherwise, the sprites spawn at the designated spot in the script.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 22, 2013, 21:18:17
@ SecretGlitch: That's a major bug. :/ *star for bug report*

Edit:
Get KS+ 1.0.1 (http://egomassive.com/ks) These kind of bugs are so frustrating. I had, "Does Trigger ID = Spawn ID," instead of, "Does Spawn ID = Trigger ID?" The first expression will compare the ID if the active Trigger with the ID of the last spawn object created. The second expression compares the ID of any spawn object with the ID of the active Trigger. :sick: I'm going to do some C++ programming now to cheer myself up.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on March 25, 2013, 12:17:09
Noticed this in the last version; don't know if it's been fixed/noticed. ctrl+s to toggle sound doesn't work when the monitor is blacked out with crtrl+x.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 25, 2013, 20:47:48
@ Talps: That's not really a bug, more like an oversight. When the menu bar isn't visible, neither are its functions. Some things, like Ctrl+R, have been made to work regardless. I agree, muting should work at anytime.

Edit:
@ Firecat: Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Your object idea isn't necessary. Directional Key Press objects override user input already. The Block User object will mainly prevent users from jumping, walking, and (de)activating tools.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: SecretGlitch on April 03, 2013, 04:01:06
A question and suggestion:

Exactly how does a map square map calculate what color it should be for a certain screen? It's giving me some colors I outright don't expect. I imagined it would be the average color of the gradient but some things don't seem to turn out that way and it's hard to predict when you have a very dynamic gradient.

And my suggestion is to allow the player on a screen to override the default color for the map square and pick their own color to use. It'd help make sure the map screens are the right color if they seem to not be what you want and allow the map to segregate areas that may be similarly colored. If there is already a way to get a map tile to be a certain color already, though, I'd like to hear it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on April 03, 2013, 04:40:34
If there is already a way to get a map tile to be a certain color already, though, I'd like to hear it.

You could create a room with a gradient that colour and then spoof the coordinates.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: SecretGlitch on April 03, 2013, 05:10:02
That doesn't work like you'd hope since you have to visit the room with the spoofed coordinates beforehand to make it appear in the map in that color. If you go to the actual room it'll appear the normal color. And I'd much prefer to just select the color myself than this method, that's for sure.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on April 03, 2013, 21:32:17
@ SecretGlitch: The map color is the average of the center of the gradient. KS+ scales the image down to a 3x3 square. The screen tint is applied. The center pixel is then matched to a 65 color pallet. I should let you set the color manually. A good automatic method was my first concern because most designers don't bother with such details. (I just realized Attachments might affect map coloring. I'll make sure that they don't.)

With map spoofing, the gradient of the first room entered at a location is used on the map. Say you have a house's interior and exterior at the same location. If you start inside, then the map will show the interior gradient's color. If you start outside, then the map will show the exterior  gradient's color. It doesn't matter which screen is at the actual coordinates.

Edit: KS+ 1.0.2 (http://egomassive.com/ks) This version allows you to pick a map color. Attachments would appear behind Layer 7 objects if Overlay was active. I've changed this, but now I'm having second thoughts. I fixed something else days ago, but I don't remember what it was. This is how to choose a map color:

MapColor=#
   Chooses the color a room will have on the map
   # is a number between 0 and 64
   Red+(Green*4)+(Blue*16)
   Red, Green, and Blue are on a scale of 0 to 3
   A value of 64 is identical to MapVisible=False
   This instruction must be in actual map location.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on April 04, 2013, 02:01:23
On the topic of expanding the features of the map, it'd be nice if it could do a bit more. Say, if you could place markers on the map, either as a player or a designer, so as to leave hints for the player or reminders for yourself (as the player).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on April 04, 2013, 05:25:40
Talps, I've given the idea of map notations a great deal of thought in the past. It was a feature that I wanted. Questions of how to interface with players and designers, how to present information and customize it, how to program it and how much automatic info gathering should be done; I never came up with satisfactory answers to any of them. Ultimately, I decided the best solution was to leave the feature out.

You could designate special rooms by using a specially colored gradient. This would need to be covered completely if it doesn't look right for your level. But now, you can designate a map color to mark special rooms without using a special gradient.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: SecretGlitch on April 04, 2013, 05:39:57
I almost had the same thought about needing markers but the color designations are a powerful enough guide, IMO.

Also you forgot to update the download link on your website to KS+102.zip, egomassive.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on April 04, 2013, 11:36:42
I think hide desktop should be available when running the game from the editor, since it doesn't mess with the editor layout like true fullscreen mode does.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 04, 2013, 12:44:38
I was thinking something like that, oh hard working mod god.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: dow on April 04, 2013, 17:26:16
I'm using this mod and have one problem and one question:
1. Scaling options don't work. Is it broken for me only or generally problem with the code? And if this is going to be fixed.
2. How was the mod created? Are there Knytt Stories' sources available anywhere?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: SecretGlitch on April 04, 2013, 18:53:58
2. How was the mod created? Are there Knytt Stories' sources available anywhere?

http://niffpage.greywool.com/files/Sources/
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on April 04, 2013, 19:01:39
1. Scaling options don't work. Is it broken for me only or generally problem with the code? And if this is going to be fixed.

If you're talking about scaling the window size, it works perfectly for me. Perhaps you could go into more detail about your problem?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on April 04, 2013, 19:11:16
2. How was the mod created? Are there Knytt Stories' sources available anywhere?

http://niffpage.greywool.com/files/Sources/
Also, i think the source files already come with the latest version of the original KS.But they will look like unreadable files without the program it was made with. (http://www.clickteam.com/website/world/multimedia-fusion-2)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: dow on April 04, 2013, 19:35:45
Thanks for the link to sources. I forgot it's MMF and not C++ - it's surely the reason why it's not ported to linux :(

About my problem with zoom option: it's just not highlighted in menu. I use old 15'' screen. Or maybe it's supposed to work only with levels designed for KS+?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on April 04, 2013, 22:33:07
@ SecretGlitch: Oops. I didn't publish the changes to the website because the file was still uploading. Then, I totally forgot to do it. Fixed now. Thanks for notifying me.

@ SergioCornaga: It's a technical issue. When KS+ is running in test mode it doesn't require the fancy tricks that allow it to do scaling and fullscreen, so it skips them. Hiding the desktop relies on the fanciness that get left out. I could change it, but this late in the game I'm afraid of breaking something else, and not discovering it while I can still fix it.

@ dow: The zoom function disables itself if your screen resolution is too low to handle it. You must have 1200 horizontal pixels to see 200% zoom, 1800 pixels to see 300%. It looks absolutely wretched if it tries to scale beyond your screen's capacity. It would stop at the screen's side but continue scaling vertically distorting the play area. Scaling to non-multiples like 150% also has terrible results, some pixels are doubled while others aren't.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: dow on April 05, 2013, 09:09:31
@ dow: The zoom function disables itself if your screen resolution is too low to handle it. You must have 1200 horizontal pixels to see 200% zoom, 1800 pixels to see 300%. It looks absolutely wretched if it tries to scale beyond your screen's capacity. It would stop at the screen's side but continue scaling vertically distorting the play area. Scaling to non-multiples like 150% also has terrible results, some pixels are doubled while others aren't.
Yes, I use 1024x768 resolution, so this is the reason. However the (about) 170% option could be still useful because now I have to use the fullscreen option which enables similar scaling mechanism on LCD monitors (plus it's annoying to switch the resolution every time you want to see desktop, plus some minor issues). So I wonder if the scaling quality (of MMF?) is much worse than the one LCD is using.

And, of course, the question how many people around here is using 1024 resolution to bother you to implement it ;)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on April 05, 2013, 11:18:37
Level Editor Plus 1.0.0 (http://egomassive.com/ks) This may be the editors final update, so I bumped it out of beta.

@ Dow: I'm sure lots of people are using 1024x768 resolution. Trust me though, fullscreen mode looks much better than scaling to 170%. There are extensions that can scale much better than MMF's native abilities, but they drain performance. Don't feel left out. I smashed the editor into a size that fits your screen.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: dow on April 06, 2013, 16:19:10
If scaling reduces performance then I'd probably not use it after all, because I play Knytt at old computer where even too much 'rain effects' slows my game a little ;)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 07, 2013, 15:48:05
Hey, what the... I just tested a level that uses object 3 on bank 15 (the invisible block), and in the testing window I could see object 3!  Is this a new setting that automatically turns on when your testing, or is it an error?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on April 08, 2013, 03:36:04
You're thinking of object 16:13 Headgrinder. Object 15:3 is the non-disappearing version of object 15:10.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 08, 2013, 03:37:48
HA HA HA!  LAUGH AT THE RED HEAD.  XD
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 16, 2013, 12:46:38
Ok, I DID find a valid issue this time, I swear.  :D  Thought it is so minor you may just ignore it.  When updating tilesets (i.e. you are editing a tileset, save it, then go back to an already open editor) I can get an edited tileset to reload by swapping to a different tileset then back real quick, however the preview edge does not reload and continues to show the old tileset until you restart the editor. 

And did you add any kind of import or mass screen copy function?  I was in a conversation with an old user about using content from a level he never released in a level I'm working on and I realized I would have to recreate his or my stuff from scratch if there wasn't a way to do this. 

One day you'll stop being bugged to reinvent this sophisticated wheel.  :D
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on April 16, 2013, 16:25:32
Headgrinder, I'm aware that graphics in previews don't always update. The previews share 3 image objects which are loaded with the correct gradient and tilesets. They will only load an image from file when the current image is different from the one needed. This helps to keep the program running quickly since reading from hard drives takes time, and it's only problematic if you edit gradients and tilesets while editing the level, and so, it will stay like this.

To update preview bars without restarting the program, move to a room where at least one preview bar will use a different image than the one you have edited. Then, return to the room you were working on.

For your second question, I don't intend to make any batch screen copying processes. I champion the use of Xoft's Level Composer (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=165) for this sort of thing. As you pointed out, there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

Edit: Maybe, I could force preview graphics reloads when users toggle preview visibility.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Headgrinder on April 17, 2013, 01:52:16
No biggie, it was just something I noticed.  *Shrug*  And if Xoft's Level Composer can batch copy than that is good enough for me.  I wasn't aware of that.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on May 04, 2013, 13:01:56
Small question: In a custom character file, why do you also need a 2/3 transparent version of every "sprite"?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on May 04, 2013, 15:12:22
Small question: In a custom character file, why do you also need a 2/3 transparent version of every "sprite"?

I believe that's the version you control when the hologram is active.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on May 04, 2013, 15:26:21
I believe that's the version you control when the hologram is active.
Yeah, i think so too, but in the template it says nothing about the hologram, just "The bottom half is 66.6% transparent" and "85/128".
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on May 05, 2013, 04:10:37
Small question: In a custom character file, why do you also need a 2/3 transparent version of every "sprite"?
Sergio's response is correct. Custom Objects can't adjust their transparency, so you need to make them transparent yourself. A Custom Characters is nothing more than an elaborate CO.

Yeah, i think so too, but in the template it says nothing about the hologram, just "The bottom half is 66.6% transparent" and "85/128".
Don't question it. Just do what I tell you to do. *laughs Diabolically*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on May 05, 2013, 10:07:51
So, it's still possible to just make him completely white with a black outline?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on May 05, 2013, 18:39:45
So, it's still possible to just make him completely white with a black outline?
You can do whatever you want. The hologram half of a Custom Character sprite sheet doesn't have to be a semi-transparent duplicate of the top half. That only applies if you want your character to behave exactly like the default character, Juni.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on May 05, 2013, 20:07:55
behave exactly like Juni
Are you talking about the hitbox?

Edit: Also, another question: What does "85/128" mean?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on May 06, 2013, 00:24:24
I think it means the exact value of Opacity/Alpha channel on Hologram'd Juni, in a scale of 0 to 128. (In some photo manipulation programs. It would read more like "170 out of 255")
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on May 06, 2013, 00:41:51
behave exactly like Juni
Are you talking about the hitbox?
No. I'm talking about the fact that she becomes semi-transparent when you activate the hologram. If you want your Custom Character to do that then you need to make the second half of the sprite sheet semi-transparent.

Also, another question: What does "85/128" mean?
That's the transparency value on a scale of 0 to 128. This is how transparency is declared internally in the program, which is very weird. 32 bit png files store transparency for each pixel as an 8 bit number, 0 to 255 in decimal. The larger the value is the more opaque the pixel. This is known as the alpha channel. MMF handles transparency with what appears to be a 7 bit number except that 0 to 127 is the decimal number range that fits into 7 bits. Also, the opacity weakens as the value increases --the opposite of most programs. Anyway, I included the MMF version of the the transparency value in case it might be of benefit to somebody.

P.S. Thanks to Firecat for fielding the question as I was typing my response, except that in most programs 86/255 is the approximate value since it's backwards. Hmm, maybe I should remove that part since it really is more confusing than helpful.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on May 10, 2013, 18:03:11
Sorry for flooding the thread with these questions (hopefully this is the last one), but how exactly do you put a custom character in a level? I keep doing something wrong for some reason.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on May 10, 2013, 20:41:31
There are 3 step to using a Custom Character.
Step 1.) Put the sprite sheet for your character in the Custom Objects folder.
Step 2.) Declare your characters in the World.ini this takes the form of:
            [Custom Character]
            Image1=Knytt.png
            Image2=KnyttCat.png
            Image3=Straightflame.png

            See image Step2.png below.
Step 3A.) To start the level with a Custom Character add:
            [World]
            Character=Knytt

            See image Step3A.png below.
Step 3B.) To change characters during the level use a shift:
            [x999y1000]
            ShiftCharacter(A)=Knytt

            See image Step3B.png below.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on May 20, 2013, 07:41:33
KS+ 1.0.3 is out! (http://egomassive.com/ks) I was just about to say goodbye to MMF forever when I discovered a problem with Custom Character holograms. I've fixed that and I've moved layer 7 objects in front of the Attachment when Overlay is active. This is how it was in version 1.0.1, but I forgot why I had made it that way and fixed/broke it in 1.0.2. The reason is so you can possibly make torch effects with COs.

There are some minor bugs in the editor still, but I've been too busy to work on it. It will remain as is, but I intend to release the source code for anyone willing to whittle away their lives figuring out how it works. Even if you're familiar with MMF2, it will probably melt your brain despite my ample notations.

I will also release the KS+ source in the future, but I want to give KS+ a chance to establish itself as the standard KS format before fourth party updates appear. (I'm a 3rd party so anyone after me must be a 4th party, right?) I will give them out on request if you can't wait for the brain melting insanity. (Actually, I think my KS+ code is pretty tidy considering it was written with MMF.)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on May 20, 2013, 18:35:01
If you're third then who's second? :P (Sorry.)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on May 20, 2013, 21:33:23
Wouldn't a third party to a third party just be called a third party to a third party?

(The word "third" seems kind of weird to me now.)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sphere on June 02, 2013, 20:48:05
I just tried this mod, and found a small glitch. When Juni run from one screen to another, there is a delay, maybe just 0.0X seconds, but I really feel the delay, which doesn't happen in original KS and makes the play a bit not fluent. Is it my computer's problem?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on June 02, 2013, 23:25:00
I just tried this mod, and found a small glitch. When Juni run from one screen to another, there is a delay, maybe just 0.0X seconds, but I really feel the delay, which doesn't happen in original KS and makes the play a bit not fluent. Is it my computer's problem?
This is a known issue. KS+ creates objects at the same time as the backgrounds which prevents objects from appearing a frame late, but the load time now depends on the number of objects and the speed of your computer. For levels made for the original KS, uncheck "Always use single pass render" in the options menu to have the same performance as the original.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sphere on June 03, 2013, 09:54:42
I unchecked "Always use single pass render", it seemed to work well. But after some time, when I went to some specified screens, the delay happened again.  I'm playing Bennity's Goastly Trials, There is two examples
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on June 03, 2013, 19:05:43
I unchecked "Always use single pass render", it seemed to work well. But after some time, when I went to some specified screens, the delay happened again.  I'm playing Bennity's Goastly Trials, There is two examples
I've played through Ghostly Trials to the specified screens with single-pass rendering disabled. I can't discern any lag in movement, but "object flash" is present. I checked KS+ against KS 1.2.1 and noticed that object flash is worse in KS+. :( It's really not surprising. KS+ is a bigger program than KS. There's always more going on behind the scenes. I did my best to keep it fast, but some levels, especially those with lots of water objects in use, will be better on KS.

Water objects are the worse offenders in all versions and mods of KS. I strongly advise level designers to use them in moderation.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on June 04, 2013, 00:15:24
Does that include all objects in the water section?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on June 04, 2013, 06:33:27
Water objects are the worse offenders [of object flash] in all versions and mods of KS. I strongly advise level designers to use them in moderation.
Does that include all objects in the water section?
All objects will flash, it's just more noticeable with the water objects because they're large and tend to be used in great numbers to cover large areas. Appearing a frame late allows players to see what should be obscured by waterfalls or completely hidden by water tiles. Those splash objects --which are meant to go at the bottom of waterfalls-- usually aren't too obvious about it. Other objects that can be a problem are the disappearing blocks in the Objects and Areas bank.

I recommend using tileset tiles to fill in your oceans whenever possible. It's also much better to use one large object than many small ones, especially with Custom Objects. Rendering lag in KS+ shouldn't be much of an issue unless acrobatics need to be performed across screen boundaries. That's typically poor level design anyway.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on June 05, 2013, 01:31:17
Rendering lag in KS+ shouldn't be much of an issue unless acrobatics need to be performed across screen boundaries. That's typically poor level design anyway.

That, I dispute.

On the whole, I've found only a few levels where the screen-transition lag in KS+ is serious enough to provoke turning off Single-Pass Rendering. Saying that, my level 'My Loving Hadron Collider' is impossible without turning it off 'cus of the way I used explosion objects (it's also a generally terrible level for KS+ 'cus of the huge numbers of objects on every screen, which is entirely my fault). So it can be a major issue, but not often, in my experience.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on August 25, 2013, 20:47:53
I'm having trouble getting a custom font to work. I don't know if I'm doing it wrong or what. I made a .png and put it into the custom objects folder of the level and then said Font=whatevername.png in the [World] section of my World.ini at the bottom. I also tried putting it at the top of the list in the [World] section and both times it didn't show up in the level when testing it or saving it and running KS+ on its own. I could just be doing something wrong, but it doesn't seem so to me. Maybe this is because I didn't create this level in KS+? I switched the format to 4 but that didn't seem to have an effect. Oh, and I just updated to the newest version of the editor and executable.

If it matters I was trying to see how a colored font would look or if that would work so I edited the font included in templates section to a red color and I found that it didn't work. I thought maybe it rendered all text black and ignored color so I drew a line through the ABCs and abcs to check that and it didn't show up. So after that I made it black again but left the line and that didn't show up.

Is anyone using custom fonts besides ego?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 26, 2013, 07:51:20
I'm having trouble getting a custom font to work. ...
:ohnoes: I'm having trouble with them too. It could be that the instructions on how to use them are wrong, or it could be that there is a fault in the program. I've put together a package including a sample level and the KS+ source so I can ask GrayFace to kindly look at and possibly fix KS+ (since I no longer can do anything myself.) I'm providing the link here in case anyone reading this may be so kind as to take a look. There are directions to where the problem may lie in the download.

FontTest.zip 2.9MB (http://egomassive.com/temp/FontTest.zip)

PS: I extend the license of the original KS source to this source. Feel free to use and modify it, but if you make your own game with it you can not use any of the graphics or audio embedded in it. Read the original license found with the KS source for more details.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on August 27, 2013, 09:45:27
I don't think I'll do any knytting until I get my PhD in Sep 18. Then I'll take a look at it if noone does that before me.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 28, 2013, 00:21:49
I don't think I'll do any knytting until I get my PhD in Sep 18. Then I'll take a look at it if noone does that before me.
Sounds good to me.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on October 05, 2013, 10:29:01
I fear it's far too late but I've noticed a bug while testing the level we're working on. If you pick up a coin, leave the screen and return without picking up more coins, the coin will respawn. This might only happen when the second screen has a coin in it, too. And maybe when the first screen contains only 1 coin.

You can still only collect 100 coins but it means you don't have to find them all, because you can collect one a hundred times. Also, I think it also breaks coin shifts so that they work without subtracting coins, though I wasn't the one who programmed the particular coin shift so I won't say for certain.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on October 05, 2013, 17:45:48
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 06, 2013, 01:14:20
@Talps: I'm having difficulty recreating this issue. I even used customized coins to no avail. It may be a specific coin or set of coins that are causing this issue. You may be able to get around it by using different coins. Every 25 coins belong to different set.

@Sergio Cornaga: Yikes! The incorrect editor images are easy to fix. The golden creature will require MMF2 be fixed. I made Triggers to act like Shifts, so only being able to activate one at a time is part of the design.

Triggers and Overlay are a complicated subject. Most of the time everything in the game from backgrounds to objects exists on one game engine layer. Only things like the Item bar exist on another of these layers. When Overlay is active game design layers 2 and 7 are created on an engine layer above the regular one. A side effect of this is objects on layer 7 cannot collide with objects on other layers. Normally if Juni stands on a Trigger the engine can detect a collision and react accordingly. But if the Trigger is on the Overlay then there is no collision as far as the engine is concerned. There are some things you can do with Triggers and Overlay:

I know I can't program this anymore, but these errors and the one found previously are making me consider looking for access to MMF2 again. I'd be interested to know if someone with the Standard version can open the source. I programmed it with the Developer version, and though I tried not to make it Developer only territory, there's no way for me to know if I succeeded. Even worse I'm afraid a new version of Developer wont open the source either. This software is too expensive for me to buy an incompatible version. *goes to ebay*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on October 06, 2013, 01:22:18
Hmm, well I don't want to give spoilers for the level but when it's released I'll let you know where I found the coin errors.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on October 07, 2013, 01:08:14
Here's (http://www.mediafire.com/download/3k21bttifsk0t2i/Firecat_-_Glitched_Coins.knytt.bin) a level that probably reproduces the coin errors. (It's a part from the level Talps mentioned, heavily modified to explain the glitches and not give spoilers about the original enviroment.)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 07, 2013, 05:00:13
Thanks Firecat. I'll take a look at it.
Edit: A star for you Firecat. The problem is rather complicated. Collectibles are tracked as bits in 32 bit signed integers. This means I have 31 ones and zeros to store information in. To keep things simple I store data on 25 coins in 4 integers. In MMF2 I had to work with them as decimal numbers which is easy to mess up. Each coin has a decimal number inside it representing one of the bits in the integer. When the game decides weather to make Coin 42 or not it checks the integer for the bit representing Coin 42. I did this by Stripping away any part of the integer above the bit in question, and seeing if the result is at least as big as the decimal number represented by Coin 42's bit. The problem is that it's checking for a number 128 too large. So, if the player collects Coin 42 and any Coin from 33 to 41, then Coin 42 will not respawn. The randomly disappearing Coins above 42 are not random at all. Since adding a bit twice will set it to '0' and the bit above it to '1', Coin 43 stops spawning after collecting Coin 42 twice. Collect Coin 42 another 2 times and Coin 44 will stop spawning but 43 will.

Here's the big kicker, this happens in every set of 25 Coins! 17, 67, and 92 do the same thing. Temporary solution: Force the player to collect the next Coin smaller at the same time they collect a problem Coin.


Here's a fix for 2 of the errors Sergio found. Download the attachment, un-zip it, and place the folder in "Knytt Stories\Data\Objects\". This is a really minor fix for the images of 2 collectibles as seen in the editor. At some point I'll include this in a new version of KS+, but I want to fix some of the bigger problems before I do that.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on October 17, 2013, 15:20:17
Damn, it was 65636 (instead of 65536). X) Took me long time to notice it.
Coins fixed: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44735333/ks/KS%2B.rar
As for signs font, it's wrong in that test level. It must be "Sign=" instead of "Font=" in world.ini.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 18, 2013, 01:07:15
Thanks so much GrayFace. I'll check it out and update the KS+ homepage as soon as possible. *gives star*

It was the instructions that were wrong with the custom Sign font. That's a relief. I was worried that I'd never bothered to test it --which would've been a terrible oversight.

Edit: Coins 17 and 92 are still broken.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on October 18, 2013, 22:30:43
Fixed now.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 19, 2013, 02:23:56
KS+ 1.0.4 is now available on its homepage (http://egomassive.com/ks).

This version includes fixed icons for the level editor, corrections to the instructions text, and most importantly GrayFace's update for KS+. He corrected the re-spawning Coins bug.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on November 07, 2013, 18:34:18
I've fixed a graphics error in 19:48: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44735333/ks/KS%2B.rar
When facing left the shooting animation didn't have black border.
And the reason I've noticed it is that I'm stealing the golden creatures :) I'm very impressed by all the work you've done on them. It never occurred to me before just how big number 50 is.
I'm in doubts about the creature for 6:8 dropper. In KS+ it's harmless, but I think it would be better as usual - dangerous when it falls and harmless afterwards, at which point you can take it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 08, 2013, 00:23:48
Thanks GrayFace. Sergio mentioned the 19:48 bug, and I hadn't checked to see if you fixed it in the previous version. At that time I was more concerned with the game-breaking coin issues. I'll update the release site soon, and bestow a star upon you.

Your suggestion for the self-dropper is a good one. I didn't want players to be able to collect it and die at the same time. Making it harmless was a quick and questionable decision. Feel free to change it in KS+ if you want to. I don't think there are any levels it will mess up.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on November 08, 2013, 12:43:28
Your suggestion for the self-dropper is a good one. I didn't want players to be able to collect it and die at the same time.
That indeed doesn't look very good (with toast and a spiky rat). I can change it to make only player die.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 08, 2013, 18:18:46
It looks like we're going to make some more changes, but you can get KS+ 1.0.5 (http://egomassive.com/ks) which fixes a graphical error on a golden creature.

@ Grayface: I played around with the gold Toast. I like how it kills you when you collect it. It's like a face-palm moment, where players say to themselves, "How stupid of me?" I probably wanted the gold Self-dropper to behave like the gold Eater, aka: Chomper, which can't be dangerous.

I'm going to say that the Self-dropper should be able to kill as it falls, and players should not be able to collect a golden creature upon death. For uniformity the Toast and spiky rat should should probably be adjusted too. I'll appreciate your help in this, Grayface.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on November 08, 2013, 20:50:21
What I meant is that toast should kill without getting collected.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on November 08, 2013, 21:33:59
NB: The golden toast in 'For Egomassive' has something to say on this subject, assuming you can read it quickly enough.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on November 08, 2013, 22:21:24
Yes, I read it. :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on November 09, 2013, 02:40:50
NB: The golden toast in 'For Egomassive' has something to say on this subject, assuming you can read it quickly enough.

Fortunately, I feel that the message still works even if KS+ is updated so that the toast doesn't disappear.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 09, 2013, 15:19:11
What I meant is that toast should kill without getting collected.
I agree.

NB: The golden toast in 'For Egomassive' has something to say on this subject, assuming you can read it quickly enough.
I hadn't noticed. It supports my hypothesis that it's funny when you die by collecting a golden creature, but I still think the Toast should survive.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on November 10, 2013, 14:57:12
Ah, I see. Maybe we could have a little vote about it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: willxinc on November 11, 2013, 03:03:33
I still think the Toast should survive.

^that right there is the best comment ever.
Also, by not being able to collect certain creatures though, doesn't that brake certain doors?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on November 11, 2013, 17:03:19
The creatures can still be picked up if you have the hologram. Secret Agent Juni Super Sneaky Mode.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on November 13, 2013, 08:44:56
Here's a version with dropper killing Juni and the other 2 not getting collected when they kill: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44735333/ks/KS%2B.rar
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Kasran on December 30, 2013, 18:36:41
Hello! I've been messing around with this a bit, mainly looking at the improvements to the editor, and I like this mod a lot.

However, I unfortunately have a small bug to report! In the editor, when I click away from the editor window and then open it again, the mousewheel functionality on the numbers no longer works. At all. It works before I unfocus the window and then focus it again, but not after. Is anyone else having this problem? I'm running Windows 7 with admin privileges, in case it matters.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on December 31, 2013, 01:28:27
... In the editor, when I click away from the editor window and then open it again, the mousewheel functionality on the numbers no longer works. At all. It works before I unfocus the window and then focus it again, but not after. ...
This is what happens when you program with a touch pad. Unfortunately, I'm having difficulty editing the editor program. The Scintilla extension is crashing it. As soon as I fix that, I'll fix this bug and the others that I know of. *gives star for bug report*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Kasran on December 31, 2013, 02:20:24
Alright! Thanks for that. Everything else seems to be working perfectly.

I sorta wish there were more KS+ levels so I could utilize the mod better.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 01, 2014, 00:09:00
I can finally work on the editor mod again thanks to Nivram (see image.) I haven't ranted about MMF2 in a while. They probably just sold a ton of copies of their product through the Humble Bundle, and the website where you go to get all the resources it needs to do anything useful is totally broken (and has been for quite some time.) Thankfully a product user attached the latest version of the Scintilla object on the support forum. I can't register and thank him there because you get banned for saying nasty things about their nasty product, and I'm pretty sure I couldn't restrain myself. So, thanks Nivram. Have a symbolic (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/Smileys/Niffpack/hidden.gif).

In other news, I'll be fixing the bugs in the editor. I've got an idea to let designers designate which music tracks should loop. Then, you wouldn't need to use an ambiance track for looping songs. I'll also be taking a look at the World.ini issue that makes levels like Define load slowly.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on January 01, 2014, 07:32:38
I've got an idea to let designers designate which music tracks should loop. Then, you wouldn't need to use an ambiance track for looping songs. I'll also be taking a look at the World.ini issue that makes levels like Define load slowly.

Some sort of MusicType attribute actually might be pretty cool. I'd suggest also including some states that force playing to the end of the track even if the player leaves the area containing the song.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 01, 2014, 07:46:44
I proudly present:

Knytt Stories Plus 1.0.7 and Level Editor Plus 1.0.1. (http://egomassive.com/ks)

new features:

Some sort of MusicType attribute actually might be pretty cool. I'd suggest also including some states that force playing to the end of the track even if the player leaves the area containing the song.
Interesting Idea, I'm not sure how useful that would be though. I think tying music to a location works well. I was tossing around the idea of having music play randomly like in Knytt or Night Sky. All I added, was the ability to loop just like an ambiance track. I was really hoping to be able to skip an intro part on subsequent plays, but it's not a native function and I was afraid that I couldn't get smooth playback managing it from the program logic.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on January 01, 2014, 23:09:13
I'll also be taking a look at the World.ini issue that makes levels like Define load slowly.
It requires fixing Ini++ somehow. Shouldn't be hard with source code.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 02, 2014, 02:00:39
I proudly present:

Knytt Stories Plus 1.0.8 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

This version introduces song intros. Simply make the song intro into a separate file named Intro#.ogg and drop it in the Music folder of your level. "#" is the number of the song the intro precedes. This is mainly intended to be used with looping songs.

It requires fixing Ini++ somehow. Shouldn't be hard with source code.
I thought I might try to use the normal ini extension for everything. If it's possible it would be a tremendous amount of work, so I think I'll forget about it since this project is supposed to be finished anyway.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on January 02, 2014, 06:20:56
Simply make the song intro into a separate file named Intro#.png and drop it in the Music folder of your level.

I presume you mean .ogg rather than .png?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on January 02, 2014, 15:44:27
I thought I might try to use the normal ini extension for everything. If it's possible it would be a tremendous amount of work, so I think I'll forget about it since this project is supposed to be finished anyway.
This will cause a major slowdown. Ini++ is cached, so accesses don't cost much. It's a badly reinvented wheel though, hence the loading slowdown. I tested with cached ini from Delphi, it loads Define's World.ini in an instant.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 03, 2014, 02:22:18
I thought I might try to use the normal ini extension for everything. If it's possible it would be a tremendous amount of work, so I think I'll forget about it since this project is supposed to be finished anyway.
This will cause a major slowdown. Ini++ is cached, so accesses don't cost much. It's a badly reinvented wheel though, hence the loading slowdown. I tested with cached ini from Delphi, it loads Define's World.ini in an instant.
I suspected as much. It takes so long I suspected it created a search index too. So, is there any reason not to replace ini++ with Delphi's extension?

Simply make the song intro into a separate file named Intro#.png and drop it in the Music folder of your level.

I presume you mean .ogg rather than .png?
Yes I do. *edits original post*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on January 05, 2014, 03:46:12
So, is there any reason not to replace ini++ with Delphi's extension?
The fact that it's not an extension. Delphi is a programming language :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 05, 2014, 23:48:56
So, is there any reason not to replace ini++ with Delphi's extension?
The fact that it's not an extension. Delphi is a programming language :)
Well, I feel silly. :oops:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 06, 2014, 23:01:56
A tiny update:

Knytt Stories Plus 1.0.9 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

The only new thing here is KG's Define and other levels with enormous World.ini files will load better. This isn't an ultimate solution. You still have to wait when you start/continue the level, but you wont have to wait after each cutscene.

@ GrayFace: I made the Ini++ a global object. It's one of its options. Then, I only load the World.ini if the global string "Cutscene" is set to "Intro" or the game is running in test mode. Finally, I set "Cutscene" to "Intro" when loading a saved game. I'm not sure if it's necessary but I dropped a global Ini++ object in my background window to make sure it always exists.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on January 09, 2014, 02:41:01
I wonder, could you add an INI value determining how many CO scripts there are? (with the default being 255) If I read the Define thread correctly that might reduce the load on KS+ optimized levels a little.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 09, 2014, 04:55:35
I wonder, could you add an INI value determining how many CO scripts there are? (with the default being 255) If I read the Define thread correctly that might reduce the load on KS+ optimized levels a little.
I was speculating that the CO caching was the issue, but I was wrong. Loading the World.ini was causing the slowdown. This latest update of KS+ still caches the CO's upon starting and after every cutscene, but I've been playing Define with it and there is only extended loading time upon start when the World.ini loads.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on January 11, 2014, 04:28:29
I seem to not have explained my idea correctly. You said the big load comes from loading the World.ini 255 times to search for Custom Objects. I was wondering if you could reduce the amount of searches based on the last CO actually written on the World ini, for example:

Code: [Select]
[Custom Object 1]
Image=Example.png
[Custom Object 2]
Image=Test.png
[Custom Object 3]
Image=Sample.png
[Custom Object 5]
Image=noobjectfourlol.png
[World]
LoadObjects=5

The last code basically telling the program to search for the first 5 objects.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 11, 2014, 17:00:52
I seem to not have explained my idea correctly.
I understood, and it would be a good idea if the CO caching loop took a long time, but it doesn't take very long at all. It doesn't load the World.ini 255 times, it just searches it 255 times. I was afraid all those searches could take a while with a large World.ini, but it's not significant.

Your idea is still a good one. Even tiny performance tweaks are good.

Edit: Discovered a bug: One of the golden creatures is misaligned in the inventory. I'm not sure how this happened since I'm sure they used to line up correctly. I'll fix it soon.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 27, 2014, 06:55:06
New version:

Knytt Stories Plus 1.1.0 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

This includes fixes for the golden creature which was misaligned in the inventory, and you can no longer collect any golden creatures while dead.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on February 02, 2014, 10:40:31
Options -> Play Music doesn't work. Also, Ctrl+S shortcut doesn't work in full-screen, it only changes the menu item state without stopping sound.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 03, 2014, 07:06:59
Options -> Play Music doesn't work. Also, Ctrl+S shortcut doesn't work in full-screen, it only changes the menu item state without stopping sound.
Oops, I was relying on a global variable. :oops: I can't recall why I didn't share globals between the parent and child windows, but there was a reason. Anyhow, I've fixed that issue and discovered a related weakness with the rendering and mapping options which I also fixed.

I've decided to allow players to choose the render method for KS+ games. I tired the quick-death setup in KS Ex and I didn't like it myself, so I'm not inclined to add it. I'll have to think about it a bit longer. I blundered into a custom font error during testing. If you tell it to load a file that doesn't exist, it loads garbage and displays it! :O While adding error checks for that I made it accept both "Font" and "Sign" as viable pointers to a custom sign font. Now, I wont have to fix the Editor too. :)

Some of these changes were insanely complex, so I want to test them a bit more before making a release.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on February 03, 2014, 18:43:21
The delay value could be an ini option. I find it really important for Lunatic levels where original death animations may take half of playing time. There no Lunatic levels for KS+ now though.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 04, 2014, 05:45:25
The delay value could be an ini option. I find it really important for Lunatic levels where original death animations may take half of playing time. There no Lunatic levels for KS+ now though.
I was thinking of lunatic levels when I made the cheat-save save to the exact pixel. I suppose an optional quick death would be a good companion.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 08, 2014, 06:33:34
Apparently I'm having server maintenance, so for the time being here's a hot-link to...
edit: I present to you...

Knytt Stories Plus 1.1.1 (http://egomassive.com/ks) 4.4 MB

There are some bug fixes with the sound options, and tweaks to the behaviors of the other options. Double-pass rendering is now available for KS+ levels. An exciting new option is an alternative death sequence which is faster than the original. You can choose your preference in the options menu.

@GrayFace: This may not be as fast of a death recovery as you wanted, but I like a little separation between death and re-birth. Also, I couldn't pass up the nostalgia!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on February 08, 2014, 07:42:17
Also, I couldn't pass up the nostalgia!

I like it! I hope a small dissolve animation is planned too. It could easily work with custom sprites if designed as a grey box that fills in over the top of the sprite.

Regarding these three preference settings in the options menu, I wonder how you feel about letting level designers specify states for them, which would grey out the option and prevent the user from altering it (I see this kind of happens already with the map, maybe there's a trigger for rendering too that I'm unaware of).

While I don't like the idea of restricting the player needlessly, I could see each of these potentially breaking certain (future) levels. To give some idea, Don't Stop Running requires double pass rendering for music synchronisation, while I imagine enabling it for plural's current efforts would expose the dreaded tick. There are also a few levels which specifically allude to the default death animation, or reveal signs only upon dying, which the alternate death animation prevents from appearing.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 08, 2014, 18:44:23
@ Sergio: It's an age old debate, designer's intention -vs- user's preference. I hope that people realize using these options will change their experience. I originally made single-pass rendering compulsory for KS+ levels, so that designers could know their levels were being experienced as intended. But, in the same way that single-pass rendering can enhance the experience of old levels, double-pass rendering can enhance the experience of some new ones.

Maybe I should approach these features a little differently. Right now rendering method and death sequence are set for all levels. I'm thinking I should start with standard behaviors based on format. Then, allow designers to set their preference for their levels. Finally, allow players to adjust the settings on a per-game-save basis. That's basically how map-forcing works already.

I'd forgotten about the fade out. I wasn't trying to emulate any specific game perfectly; Nifflas uses that sound in several games. It could probably use a little something more. Maybe I could use the tint to emulate the red flash from Saira.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on February 09, 2014, 08:08:52
I'd like to add in a vote to allowing the level creator to prohibit the alternative death.  I'm currently working on a level that uses the dynamic music trick I used in "This Level Plays Itself!"  Whenever the player dies with the normal death animation, that white screen makes it so the player can, unfortunately, hear both ambiance tracks, but with the alternative death animation, the time where both tracks are audible is considerably longer, which I'm really not a big fan of.

Speaking of the alternate death, it turns out there's another way it doesn't play nicely with the level I'm making.  There seems to be a bug where, if the player shifts themselves into a killblock, that entire screen will turn gray and the player will fall into the screen below it (if there is one at all).

To better illustrate my point, I have an image:
(http://i.imgur.com/nfGPS09.gif)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 09, 2014, 17:27:02
@Ultigonio: This is a problem because you're using Mute-Ambiance and Area-Ambiance objects, right? If I maintain the current volume levels during any death sequence that should fix the problem for you. Also, how does the death sound playing into the new life affect you?

This other bug is definitely a problem. The Shift must be reactivating the movement engine post-death. It has delays built in, so it can work after the player has shifted to a new screen. Nice catch. *gives star*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on February 09, 2014, 22:16:55
@Ultigonio: This is a problem because you're using Mute-Ambiance and Area-Ambiance objects, right? If I maintain the current volume levels during any death sequence that should fix the problem for you. Also, how does the death sound playing into the new life affect you?
For now, it's just the Mute-Ambiance object, but yes, that's correct.  And that fix would be fantastic, thank you!
As far as I'm aware, the death sound playing into a new life doesn't cause any sort of issues, so, provided I understand your question, I'll say "not at all."
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 09, 2014, 22:41:18
To address some of Ultigonio and Sergio's concerns I've put together this preview (http://egomassive.com/ks+/KS+112Preview.zip) of the next release. (I should be more careful not to make buggy official releases in the future.) If anyone would like to test it out and give me feedback, it would be appreciated. This version changes the way options are saved and implemented. It also fixes the bug Ultigonio found, and prevents ambiance volumes from changing during death sequences. It does not feature any visual changes to the alternate death sequence.

Special new instructions for the World.ini:
[World]
SinglePass=False
AltDie=True

Starting a new game should always start players with the default settings for the level's format. Original KS levels should use double-pass rendering, have the map off but available, and use the standard death sequence. KS+ levels should use single-pass rendering, have the map on and not alterable in the menu, and use the standard death sequence. Designers of KS+ levels can change how these options are set when starting a new game. Then, players can potentially break levels by changing them.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on February 10, 2014, 01:35:38
Alright, so I gave the preview a shot.

Good news:

Bad news:

*ambiance, technically.

EDIT:  Oh, I also noticed that, in that same state where the music* is at half-volume, it seems that the ambiance won't fade out when I fall into an abyss.  Weird.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on February 10, 2014, 21:02:40
The way you did it is almost right, but levels that don't specify AltDie setting should start with user's default setting. Not sure about SinglePass, perhaps it should also behave like that.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Matlock19 on March 04, 2014, 03:46:31
I am having a major issue with The Level Editor Plus, any help at all would be great.

I'm making a level, and all has gone well, until today. When I opened my level (in Level Editor Plus of course) I noticed some options were missing (see attached pic, especially the red square). It seems that my options for "Trigger" and "Misc" have vanished. Also, my custom character option is gone. All of those options were present until today, when I opened my map I noticed they were just....gone. I don't think that I did anything that might've changed any settings, and I have no idea how this happened. This has been a KS+ map from the very beginning, I have had no problems until just now when these features seemingly vanished into thin air.

I will have to totally scrap this map unless something can be done. Help! Is this a bug or did I accidentally press the wrong button? I can find no solution.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Fubaka on March 04, 2014, 05:35:38
You must have poked the 'Original KS' option when loading your level, instead of 'KS+'.

I loaded a level with the original KS option and it showed those tabs missing just like in your picture.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 04, 2014, 06:54:51
Is this a bug or did I accidentally press the wrong button? I can find no solution.

It is as Fubaka says. You might be able to fix it by locating 'Format=2' in World.ini and changing it to 'Format=4".

The fact that you have a (virtually empty) [World] block at the bottom is a little worrying, though, and means you might not be able to find 'Format' at all. Is it possible you deleted the [World] section from World.ini?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 07, 2014, 02:02:33
Sergio's on the right track. The [World] group must have been deleted somehow. The editor creates one backup of the World.ini called World.bkup. If you rename this file World.ini then you'll get an older version, but most likely it already contains the bad data. My advise is to start a new KS+ level, then copy the [World] section to the level you're having the problem with using a text editor like Notepad or Notepad++.

You can find the World.ini files inside your level's folder. Hitting ctrl+f in the level editor will open your level's folder. Hitting ctrl+e in the level editor will open your level's World.ini file in your default text editor.

Why do the tabs disappear? Well, the KS+ editor can be used to make normal KS levels. To make it easier to on level designers, the features that only work in KS+ disappear while working on a KS level. The format number dictates which version of KS your level works with. Format 2 is for official KS levels. Format 3 is for KS Extended levels. Format 4 is for KS+. Formats 0 and 1 were for older obsolete official versions of KS. You can also note while working on KS+ levels that the KS+ only features are pink in the tabbed dialogues.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on March 09, 2014, 11:09:14
By the way, Ego, I've been working on my level, and I'm not sure what possessed you to make it so the crumbling blocks would break when the player shifts on top of them, but I'm extremely glad you decided to do that because it has made my level design options significantly more interesting.  Was it a choice based on allowing those types of blocks to be placed at the bottom of the screen?

Edit: 3/10/14 - By the way, is there any particular reason that you can't "fill" by shift-clicking with objects like you can with tiles?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 11, 2014, 01:56:26
By the way, Ego, I've been working on my level, and I'm not sure what possessed you to make it so the crumbling blocks would break when the player shifts on top of them, but I'm extremely glad you decided to do that because it has made my level design options significantly more interesting.  Was it a choice based on allowing those types of blocks to be placed at the bottom of the screen?

Edit: 3/10/14 - By the way, is there any particular reason that you can't "fill" by shift-clicking with objects like you can with tiles?

The fill functions remain the way Looki made them. Honestly, I never took the time to fully understand how they work. The same goes for the Undo function.

I'm not sure about shifting, but I wanted to prevent wallswims on scrolling to a new screen. If you had a line of crumbling blocks across two screens and the the one at the edge gave way just as you were about to enter the next screen, you'd probably be swimming in a crumbling block on the new screen. To avoid this scenario I made the blocks crumble immediately if the character is overlapping them after a screen change.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on March 11, 2014, 13:21:37
I expect I'm a few years late to be asking this but, as I gather you're working on KS+ again, I thought there'd be no harm in asking (apart form looking a bit of a prat, anyway). Are you still accepting ideas for features you could incorporate into KS+ or are you firmly well beyond that stage now?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 12, 2014, 02:14:07
I consider this project complete. The plan is to do maintenance only, but I've obviously done a little more. It wouldn't hurt to suggest features. Unless I love the idea I probably wont implement it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on March 12, 2014, 14:35:13
Well, I've thought for a while that it'd be kinda awesome to have a liquid (specifically lava) that rises slowly (aka. a little more slowly than those wall-climbing spikey-ball enemies) up the screen until it fills it to the top (and, by extension, kills Juni). Another way of putting pressure to act quickly on the player but with a different approach to the flying chasers. This isn't something you have to struggle to outmanouvre; you just have to move more quickly than it.

Thinking about it, it'd be nice if it could have the option to start somewhere off the bottom of the screen so you could have it chase the player up several screens without giving breathing room like using triggers would achieve...

But yeah, that's my idea.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 13, 2014, 02:14:31
My initial thoughts are it wouldn't be to hard too make an object like that. However, to make it fill in areas as it rises, it would need to appear behind layer 3. The game isn't built for that. You could fake it with layer 2 set to Overlay, but that would be difficult to use. Then, I'd want waterfalls to shorten as the water rises. They aren't designed for that either.

I wonder if I could make a controller object that would cause any standard water object to paste itself into the background and rise a bit. That wouldn't allow for the water to start off screen though.

I'll think about it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on March 13, 2014, 10:07:05
I see myself putting Overlay layer 2 on top of layer 3 in places so that Juni can walk on blocks that stand in front of the flood; I've done it plenty of times to hide water blocks and/or glowing water effects behind oddly-shaped scenery (c.f. water in cracks in Sergio's mountain tileset in the latter half of 'I Chased the Moon'). In other places the liquid could rise to cover over scenery on layer 3. Using Overlay often forces you to think creatively about how to use the layers it leaves you with; I can't see this presenting an unusual challenge.

Surely a waterfall would just be hidden behind the rising flood, as long as it was on layer 4 or 5 and the flood on 6?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: gamerjc21 on March 13, 2014, 11:47:59
Thanks for making this mod! I'm currently working on my new level and just finished making my custom character, and it works great! (Yes, I only just discovered this last week >.<)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 13, 2014, 15:30:34
Well, I've thought for a while that it'd be kinda awesome to have a liquid (specifically lava) that rises slowly (aka. a little more slowly than those wall-climbing spikey-ball enemies) up the screen until it fills it to the top (and, by extension, kills Juni).

In my opinion, this is the sort of thing KS Ex is perfect for, since it's relatively easy to script and customise... I think rising water may even exist already in the example level, if my memory doesn't fail me.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 14, 2014, 02:19:43
A good point from Sergio, KS Extended already does rising water. But if I recall correctly, Talps is programming impaired. Sure I could say figuring out the rising water thing is a great opportunity to get his feet wet in the world of programming. (Puns! :sigh:) I'd rather say, Talps is a great designer and story teller. With KS and KS+ he doesn't need to know how to code to make games. Then again, GrayFace generously does the KS Ex scripting for those who ask.

Thanks for making this mod! I'm currently working on my new level and just finished making my custom character, and it works great! (Yes, I only just discovered this last week >.<)
I'm glad to hear it. I think your levels are becoming quite good. I even made a post here (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=6212.0) on the forums to draw attention to them.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Ink on March 14, 2014, 02:31:05
Something I'd like to see is some kind of dropping/dripping object that kills Juni but doesn't require the eye power-up.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on March 14, 2014, 04:32:57
Honestly, as I think about things I wish were in KS, one thing that comes to mind is more enemies which change in some way when the player has a powerup - like Bouncer #4, whose jump height increases when the player has a double jump.  Being able to control the intervals at which certain enemies fire their projectiles would also be nice - I've never been very fond of the random element present in so many of KS's enemies.

Also, I just found a bizarre glitch.  It's hard to reproduce, but essentially, by maneuvering between two screens and the screen loading taking a certain amount of time, I'm able to collect things on the exact opposite side of the screen.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Polana on March 14, 2014, 14:44:41
After all your ideas this one might seem ordinary, but I sometimes miss upside-down versions of objects 15 and 16 from bank 16.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on March 14, 2014, 18:48:52
Egads, what have I unleashed?

As Ego said, I have no programming ability. :(
And if he does generously decide to implement my idea, I intend to use it in Dragon Myth which is being made to use KS+. Incorporating both mods is, for me, too terrifying a concept for me to even speak of without my brainnnadssd wibble cluck.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 15, 2014, 01:02:07
Also, I just found a bizarre glitch.  It's hard to reproduce, but essentially, by maneuvering between two screens and the screen loading taking a certain amount of time, I'm able to collect things on the exact opposite side of the screen.
Drat. I'm aware of this problem, but I thought I had it beat. Key blocks gave me so much trouble because they destroy slowly. I'll see what I can do.

I recognize that being restricted to the same enemies as when KS was first released back in 2007 makes it very hard to create a level that feels fresh. KS+ has the ability to change the appearance of enemies, but not their behaviors. Although programmable/new enemies is a brilliant idea, it's beyond the scope of this project. One of Nifflas' concepts for Knytt Underground was to be able to combine movement, detection, and attack AI to create a large number of possible enemy behaviors. Since I didn't want to encroach on KU, I decided not to include programmable enemies in KS+.

Polana, I have often wanted those invisible shapes myself. However, I don't regard the ceiling to be a critical area for smooth collision. Also, you can make any invisible shape you want since they're actually visible, 1 degree of blue. You can include them into tilesets.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Polana on March 15, 2014, 01:10:17
Oh, thank you. I didn't know that.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on March 21, 2014, 01:30:33
Incorporating both mods is, for me, too terrifying a concept for me to even speak of without my brainnnadssd wibble cluck.
That's impossible. You have to choose between them for each level. I do have an idea of making a level converter from KS+ to KS Ex though... E.g. converting a map with just golden creatures and coins is extremely simple (by hand), since I've already stolen both as template objects. Don't expect to actually see a converter, there's little chance I'll make it. :)

What I'm thinking of making is a layer for background objects that would be underneath the ground tiles. It could contain moving clouds, rising water or what not. Rising water done this way wouldn't kill though, unless explicitly programmed to. Same nuance as with foreground layer in KS+.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Gamershy on May 18, 2014, 14:49:32
THE SITE IS DOWN ;~; every time i try to go to the website, it says "Error 404 not found" i tried hand typing the link and it does the same thing, HALP
(by site, i mean the site where you download the mod from)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on May 19, 2014, 05:56:41
Yeah, that happened. :sigh: I can't get it fixed until Monday.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on May 19, 2014, 12:32:58
Well, it seems to be working now!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on May 19, 2014, 16:44:33
Well, it seems to be working now!
Yes! :D It's back up. I had to update my automatic payment method for my server service. :oops:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Gamershy on May 21, 2014, 14:57:51
YAY i'll download the mod this coming weekend ^w^
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: rainulous on August 04, 2014, 16:38:20
What's the minimum OS this mod can run on? I currently only have a machine with Windows 2000 and there's no sound. I lost my XP product key  :sad:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 04, 2014, 22:33:23
What's the minimum OS this mod can run on?
I built it on XP. It's a standard x86 program as far as I know. I don't believe it uses hardware support, but I may be mistaken. I just let MMF2, the software it's written on, do it's thing.

Update: I'm currently installing MMF2 on my new computer. If I remember correctly, I had version 1.1.2 ready for launch but did not release it. So, I will check the status on that. I intend to work on sprite templates some, mostly as they are requested. Overall I've grown tired of this project and only intend to do a little maintenance if it's needed.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: rainulous on August 04, 2014, 22:38:24
I don't really understand why it wouldn't work, considering Saira can even run on Win2k. But the good news is I found my XP key. So I can start working on levels again.
It's not really much of an issue since I don't know anyone who uses Windows 2000 anymore except myself.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on August 10, 2014, 01:41:35
(http://i.imgur.com/Qfa8UMv.png)
I can't seem to get the "_ Delete" object to work.  I've tried putting it on top of or next to what I want it to delete, but I'm not having any luck.  I'm pretty sure I knew how to use this at one point....
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: LPChip on August 10, 2014, 12:23:51
Make sure you select the right layer first, then select any object 0 of any bank and click on the ones you want to delete.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on August 10, 2014, 12:55:57
LPchip, there's an object on the mod that can be used to delete objects via triggers, so you can have a static enemy, or a mechanical block like the 'no jump' blocks, vanish by use of triggers, so as not to need duplicate screens. I once used one to make one of the warp objects disappear so warps did or didn't function depending on which passage out of the same side of the screen you ventured through.

I've not used one in a while but I'll have a look at my programming in a moment and see if I can suggest any advice.


Edit: I was gonna post a screenshot from my level but the best example I have is guarding a secret area which I don't want to give away.

The 'Delete' object in your screenshot will only delete the objects it shares a tile with. You need to place a 'Delete A' object on every tile with a 'no jump' object if you want 'Trigger A' to delete them all. Be aware that it will delete every object in a tile it's placed on (so if you place one on the tile with the 'no jump', water and 'spring' objects, it'll delete all three - as far as I'm aware there's no way to refine this).

Delete objects will not delete scenery from tilesets, so if you're trying to do that, you'll need to turn the scenery into a CO.


If you're still having trouble:
  • Make sure your trigger is set to 'trig on touch' and (if you're as paranoid as I am) 'repeatable'.
  • Also remember, if you're using 'Overlay' on the tile, nothing on layer 7 will interact with anything not on layer 7 (including Juni).


The delete object will delete everything on its tile, whether placed on top of or under it, unless one or the other is placed on layer 7 with overlay switched on.

If this doesn't help, try setting the trigger to animate or make sound so you can see if it's the trigger that isn't working. Test the delete object by placing it over a visible object and see if it vanishes when the trigger is activated. This should give you more clues as to what's going wrong, and help you give more information if you need to ask for help again.

If you can't solve the problem, try posting more about exactly what you want your 'delete' object to do.

Script from my screen (which deletes multiple objects using one trigger, because all the objects have a 'Delete' tile placed over them):
TrigVisible(A)=False
TrigEffect(A)=False
TrigRepeat(A)=True
TrigTouch(A)=True
TrigType(A)=3
TrigSound(A)=None
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: LPChip on August 10, 2014, 16:15:35
Ah, my bad. I never worked with the mod, so I didn't know there's such feature.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on August 10, 2014, 16:33:04
Well, reading your answer prompted me to try and answer the original question, and answering the question prompted me to add a few more screens to 'Dragon Myth', so it worked out well in the end :P
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 10, 2014, 17:59:31
Talps' explanation of the Delete object was good and through. Making it repeatable should have no benefit.

I have a simple example of the Delete object at the end TToK: Earth Temple Beta. I'm making it appear as though picking up the key allows Juni to pass through a wall. In reality a spot-shaped trigger occupies the same space as the key. The Trigger deletes a Juni-Blocker. The screen coordinates are x985y1003.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: cheatfreak47 on September 08, 2014, 21:29:21
I think I found a bug, not sure if it's been reported before, but I don't have 2 hours to read through a 45 page topic.
(http://i.imgur.com/cIMmthg.png)

About 50% of the time, resetting with the F2 key while in Zoom mode causes this to happen.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 09, 2014, 11:16:50
I occasionally get an error of this type, but cycling the zoom level usually fixes it. Can you fix it by changing the zoom level? There might be a weakness in the program which I could fix, but the scaling thing is ridiculously complicated. So, unless it's a fatal flaw I'm not going to dive into that code again. I'll give you a star for the bug report all the same though. :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on September 09, 2014, 16:57:31
Can you fix it by changing the zoom level?

I've encountered this bug also, but didn't report it because for me it can be fixed by zoom cycling or clicking any of the menu buttons.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: cheatfreak47 on September 09, 2014, 17:42:51
It only happens about 50% of the time when I reset with F2. If I mash F2 again and again it goes away, but it's quite annoying, so I just figured it may be worth looking at. To me it seems like only the Y axis isn't getting scaled and the X axis is always getting scaled, but like I said it's only a problem about 50% of the time.

My screen can only handle 1x or 2x, as my max resolution is 1366x768 (I have a laptop)

Off topic, amazing job on the mod, this is worth having for the key remapping alone, and all the scripting and new game design options makes it even more worth having.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on September 09, 2014, 18:35:33
My experience with this thing:

My zoom level is normally set to x2, and like with cheatfreak, it can't go higher. (Probably for the same reason but i don't know my resolution.)

So i recently checked this to see if it would happen to me. It did, but not nearly as frequently as 50% of the time. Unless he meant it had 50% chance of happening (Monte Carlo fallacy and all that), i'd say it's more like 10% or less, for me at least. I never had this problem when resetting after playing a level. And regarding that changing the zoom level thing, for me it happens regardless of how much you spam Ctrl + Z.

Also, cheatfreak, like Sergio said, clicking one of the menu buttons fixes the zoom thing. I think clicking a Play button that's slightly higher up would be preferrable over hammering that poor F2 button.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 10, 2014, 03:16:52
Hmm, This F2 thing may have to do with a weird issue where a key press is read as a rapid succession of key presses. It's most notable with save spots. You can hear the sound effect launch several times for a brief press, and continue to launch when holding down the key. In winXP the problem resolved itself only when restarting the PC. :O I've also seen it in win8.1. Anyway, I only get this F2 bug when I rapidly mash the key. So, you may have this mysterious key stuttering bug. I bet I'm double checking only the X dimension and not the Y, because both dimensions are always set together, but if you reset while the size is being adjusted only one instruction might get through.

Fixing this may be as simple as changing the Y dimension before the X. The key stuttering I believe is an incompatibility between Windows and the key listeners built into MMF2, so I can't fix it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: cheatfreak47 on September 10, 2014, 05:27:02
Oddly, the issue isn't present in Knytt Stories Ex, not sure if that's worth mentioning or not. The source to KS ex is available on it's web page if that may help.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on September 10, 2014, 09:38:02
Double-pass rendering is now available for KS+ levels
Could you please tell me how to archieve this? It doesn't seem to be documented anywhere.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on September 10, 2014, 13:10:14
Just click Options in the top bar thing and uncheck "Use single pass render", i'd assume...?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on September 10, 2014, 17:09:51
Oh, I was hoping there was a way to force that option for anyone who plays a determined level (Or even better, An specific section of a level). As i find single-pass to be way too buggy to be worth it. For example, right now im strugling with the fact that when you shift to a "alternate version" of a screen with golden creatures, the collectibles will be considered to have been "Already loaded" and not appear on the alternate version.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 13, 2014, 08:01:14
Oddly, the issue isn't present in Knytt Stories Ex, not sure if that's worth mentioning or not. The source to KS ex is available on it's web page if that may help.
KS Ex and KS+ are entirely different approaches to modding KS. GrayFace made an extension for his mod which allowed him to write whatever functions he wanted in a real programming language. I endeavored to not only use existing extensions, but to restrict myself to extensions compatible with the cheap version of the programming software KS is built upon. As a result, KS+ is a lot clunkier than it needs to be, but I can still edit the source now that I only have the cheap version of the programming software.

Oh, I was hoping there was a way to force that option for anyone who plays a determined level (Or even better, An specific section of a level). As i find single-pass to be way too buggy to be worth it. For example, right now im strugling with the fact that when you shift to a "alternate version" of a screen with golden creatures, the collectibles will be considered to have been "Already loaded" and not appear on the alternate version.
I believe designer chosen render methods was discussed. I don't remember the decision I came to, but I see no evidence of it being implemented. I must have shot down the idea. I do however have an idea for fixing this golden creature bug. Instead of checking for the existence of a creature, I should store weather a creature has been created in a local variable. The variables change instantly, whereas it take more than one cycle to delete an object.

I hereby schedule myself to stop reset screen screw-ups and change collectible creature creation checks on my next day off. That would be Tuesday.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on September 13, 2014, 11:57:27
It took me about five attempts to understand the sentence where you wrote 'weather' instead of 'whether'. I was trying to think of a golden creature that resembled some sort of cloud. This is what happens when I go on these forums right after waking up.

On a slightly more topical note, the general lagginess of KS+ and single-pass rendering makes it impossible to play my level, 'My Loving Hadron Collider' using it, as a sequence of it relies on timing with those big white explosions. The timing only works in basic KS (for me, at least). In fact the lag in KS+ also makes a lot of the screen transitions really hard because I used far too many COs per screen than I ever needed to and it hates me for that. :) Only time I ever use basic KS now is when I want to play that.

Lag in KS+ is my one qualm with your mod, Ego.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on September 13, 2014, 17:32:11
On a slightly more topical note, the general lagginess of KS+ and single-pass rendering makes it impossible to play my level, 'My Loving Hadron Collider' using it, as a sequence of it relies on timing with those big white explosions.

Interesting! I was able to play it fine. Have you tried disabling 'always use single pass render' in the settings menu? Admittedly, the sequence in question works whether I have that checked or not. Also, I was under the impression that the timing of those white explosions was somewhat random.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on September 13, 2014, 19:33:17
They aren't; their flashes always go the same way! Believe me! :P

Maybe my laptop is a little slow these days. I think I tried toggling single-pass - maybe that's what made the rest of the level so laggy.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 13, 2014, 23:33:54
KS+ is certainly slower than KS. Even when using double-pass rendering, original KS is faster at screen transitions, and has smaller object flash times. I found many opportunities in the original engine for speed-ups, but they are far outweighed by the vast number of new tasks. :/

And yes, I'm a terrible speller.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on September 14, 2014, 05:54:11
They aren't; their flashes always go the same way! Believe me! :P

I was tempted to believe you, but luckily I didn't. Upon checking, the projectile directions are always identical, but the speed/inertia is indeed randomized. Possibly you were just unlucky in your testing?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on September 14, 2014, 17:28:58
I don't think it's ever killed me in KS. I don't think I've ever survived it in KS+. Maybe in KS I'm able to drop out of the screen before any of them move into my line.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on September 14, 2014, 19:05:35
:33 < *sf just played my loving hadron collider to s33 if the explosions would work for him*

:33 < *the explosions worked perfectly and didnt kill him at all, but grabbing the gr33n particle and the umbrella was made a lot trickier by the lag from the scr33n transitions*

:33 < *sf wonders why talps would mention the explosions, of all things*

[mod]Removed unnecessary formatting[/mod]
Edit by not Mod: Removed unnecessary stupid remark from not Mod
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Raicuparta on September 14, 2014, 20:14:58
[mod]Removed unnecessary formatting[/mod]
Edit by not Mod: Removed unnecessary stupid remark from not Mod
I am confused.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on September 14, 2014, 20:36:35
The text was originally this color, which (opposite of not) Mod didn't like. So then i made an unnecessary stupid remark about how that was part of the whole Homestuck thing i was doing, which i then decided to remove, because it was unnecessary, stupid, unnecessarily stupid, and stupidly unnecessary. I then left an [edit] because "last edited by StraightFlame" with no actual edit is kinda awkward.

Anyways, how come the parts in Hadron Collider that are unplayable are different for me than for Talps? Is there a reasonable explanation for how that can happen?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: LPChip on September 14, 2014, 21:13:45
The entire post was in that color which made it seem to not add any distinct value to any part of the post. If it had stated an extra line without color explaining it, I wouldn't have removed it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: cheatfreak47 on September 15, 2014, 03:39:27
I don't think it's ever killed me in KS. I don't think I've ever survived it in KS+. Maybe in KS I'm able to drop out of the screen before any of them move into my line.

Well I just tried out your level with both double pass and single pass, and had no trouble beating it either way.
Spoiler: But then again, (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on September 15, 2014, 10:15:56
(Gonna be humming that song all day now.)

I know that between laggy screen transitions and that explosion being mistimed, playing 'My Loving Hadron Collider' in KS+ became more trouble than it's worth. However, it may have been with an older version of KS+; don't think I've tried it in a while.

I feel a little bad for turning this thread down such a narrow road.

(What is love...)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 16, 2014, 22:10:02
I've got the initial zoom level bug beat. Apparently, the software is not good at recognizing when a frame has started if that frame had just started a moment before. *shrugs* That's out of my hands. The menu is an example of a frame. The level selection menu is another. The actual game runs in a frame, and the cutscenes have their own frame too. When frames start they're supposed to check the zoom level and adjust themselves. So now, I send the command to "change" zoom levels during the initialization frame instead of "setting" it and expecting the menu frame to recognize that it has just started.

Now, it's time to work on the incredibly time consuming golden creature creation check bug. I'm going to have to adjust every single collectible item. :sigh:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: cheatfreak47 on September 17, 2014, 04:37:48
wooooooooo, thanks ego. *gives :hiddenstar:*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 17, 2014, 11:10:37
KS+ 1.1.2 is here! (http://egomassive.com/ks/) :D

Updates include:

I've just hit on an idea to remove object flash without single-pass rendering. That would mean no more screen transition delay which is this mod's greatest drawback. It would be a huge undertaking though, so I'm not sure if I'll implement it. I will tinker with the idea and see if it works at least.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on September 17, 2014, 12:00:36
I would love you to do it, but then I would also love you to get on with TToK!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 18, 2014, 02:53:11
I've just hit on an idea to remove object flash without single-pass rendering. That would mean no more screen transition delay which is this mod's greatest drawback. It would be a huge undertaking though, so I'm not sure if I'll implement it. I will tinker with the idea and see if it works at least.
I would love you to do it, but then I would also love you to get on with TToK!
The idea seems to have merit and it's not as hard to implement as I thought it would be. I may have a demo in a few days.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 20, 2014, 05:10:29
Here's the beta of KS+ 1.2.0 (http://egomassive.com/ks+/KS+120beta.zip)

This is an experiment to see if I can remove object flash without single-pass rendering. What this version does is draw images of the objects for that one cycle after you enter a new screen and objects haven't appeared yet. In the zip file you'll find only the executable and an image file which holds all those images. You'll need to have a working KS+ setup to use these files with. In the menu where you used to be able to switch rendering methods, you'll now find the ability to turn "Reduce Flash" on and off.

Of course I want your feedback. There are sure to be bugs, especially with CO's and OCO's. Also, if you think any of the stand-in images can be adjusted for smoother transitions, please let me know. Some of the objects (e.g. coins) aren't drawn at all. Does this detract or is it as unnoticeable as I hope?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on September 20, 2014, 07:45:32
The first thing i noticed so far is that the Overlay feature is not working like supposed to at all, is this a bug or did you disabled it for the beta? I personally haven't found the coin flash noticeable enough to be bothersome, even on relatively coin-dense areas such as Headgrinder's area on "For Egomassive". What i did found pretty noticeable however is that, on certain collectibles such as powerups and golden creatures, the game will draw it even when it no longer exists/has aldready been collected.
Edit: Also, Bank 15, Object 25 right now is being drawn fully opaque before the game assigns it a variable transparency, which can sometimes result in notcieable flashes. And i found out Bank 2, Object 13 is sometimes drawn as 2,12 for some reason.
Also, a copy of certain OCOs appears on the top left, not an image flash, An actual, INTERACTIVE copy of the OCO. This is particulary gameplay-wrecking on Golden Creature OCOs (See attachment: That little disk at the very top? it's supposed to appear in the pit left of juni.)

Edit: Another one. Bank 14, Object 20 (And it's spiky and golden counterparts) will sometimes be drawn despite the fact that they spawn hidden undergrond and only after they are loaded they make their "Popping Out" Animation.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 21, 2014, 00:33:32
The first thing i noticed so far is that the Overlay feature is not working like supposed to at all, is this a bug or did you disabled it for the beta? I personally haven't found the coin flash noticeable enough to be bothersome, even on relatively coin-dense areas such as Headgrinder's area on "For Egomassive". What i did found pretty noticeable however is that, on certain collectibles such as powerups and golden creatures, the game will draw it even when it no longer exists/has aldready been collected.
Edit: Also, Bank 15, Object 25 right now is being drawn fully opaque before the game assigns it a variable transparency, which can sometimes result in notcieable flashes. And i found out Bank 2, Object 13 is sometimes drawn as 2,12 for some reason.
Also, a copy of certain OCOs appears on the top left, not an image flash, An actual, INTERACTIVE copy of the OCO. This is particulary gameplay-wrecking on Golden Creature OCOs (See attachment: That little disk at the very top? it's supposed to appear in the pit left of juni.)

I hadn't even thought about weather an object has been collected or not. For a lot of things I think the best solution is to never draw it. Small things like enemies have never been that noticeable. It's things like water and waterfalls covering large areas of the screen which are problematic. I don't know why OCO's are freaking out. Very strange. Overlays have gone wrong probably because I added new layers to draw to. One has to go through and change every layer reference manually. *gives star*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on September 27, 2014, 21:31:28
A small knyttpick, in the interface showing all collected creatures, 19,50 seems to appear 1 pixel above where its frame suggests it should be.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 28, 2014, 05:45:34
Thanks Firecat. Took me a single minute to fix it. I think this can wait for the next update. I still have a serious bug where collectibles can be collected from the opposite side of the screen when scrolling. Single-pass rendering is so problematic!

On the alternate version of KS+. The errors you reported are being mysterious. I can't figure out why overlays aren't working.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on October 01, 2014, 22:36:18
I think found a bug with the area ambiences. putting a row of 0,38 on the top of an screen (See attachment) causes the ambience to act strangely. When Juni is on the right side of the screen the area objects will work more or less right, but as you move towards the left side of the screen the ambience will start to get silent with a werid tremolo effect regardless of how close you are to the area object.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on October 03, 2014, 01:39:09
I think found a bug with the area ambiences. putting a row of 0,38 on the top of an screen (See attachment) causes the ambience to act strangely. When Juni is on the right side of the screen the area objects will work more or less right, but as you move towards the left side of the screen the ambience will start to get silent with a werid tremolo effect regardless of how close you are to the area object.

Area ambiences behave strangely... I noticed this effect a lot when working on For egomassive, but neglected to mention it because I figured it was just how they behaved and I had to work around it. I don't think I used that layout, though, so there may be even more to it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 04, 2014, 06:23:05
Area ambiance objects are supposed to adjust the volume according to the closest one. There must be something wrong with the routine. I'll look into it when I get a chance.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on October 10, 2014, 00:21:16
I think I've found a bug.

When using a CO version of Bank 17, Obj 8 (the wall climbing ninja) the animation for him throwing his shuriken doesn't work after he's slid down the wall. It does work correctly after he climbs up the wall.

If you need me to post my sprite sheet, please say so, though I'd rather keep it under wraps for now if possible.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 10, 2014, 20:09:32
@Talps: In the source this looks like it should work fine, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it doesn't. I think this will fix it, KS+ 1.1.3 beta (http://egomassive.com/ks+/KS+113beta.zip). If it does then I'll have to tweak all the climbers that fire. :(

Update: I'm in the middle of fixing the area ambiance issue. There are some complex equations at play. I haven't found the problem yet. Here's a screenshot:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on October 10, 2014, 22:37:54
Your download link doesn't work. I tried typing it out, making sure to spell 'massive' correctly, and it still didn't work. :P
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on October 11, 2014, 07:20:20
Your download link doesn't work. I tried typing it out, making sure to spell 'massive' correctly, and it still didn't work. :P

This URL (http://egomassive.com/ks+/KS+113beta.zip) works for me.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on October 11, 2014, 11:32:33
Thanks. Now I shall be forever mystified by what I was doing wrong.

That's fixed the bug, too.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 17, 2014, 18:24:13
That's fixed the bug, too.
This is why MMF2 sucks. The shooting sequence only has an upward facing animation, so when shooting the custom graphics should sync with that direction. I have to force the object into the upwards direction (even though it is already in that direction) so that the custom graphics will play correctly. I know this is not how objects were intended to be used by the software developers, but if it has a direction variable it should know which way it is facing. [/rant]

The ambiance problem eludes me. I'm going to revamp the way it iterates through multiple instances.

Side note: I fixed the overlay issues in the alternate version. I was drawing overlays on the same layer I drew the minimap color. So the minimap would erase that layer only upon entering a screen never before visited. Alas, I'm making so many repairs to the main version that I'll have to remake the alternate version from it when I'm finished.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on October 21, 2014, 18:27:57
You're probably beyond sick of hearing this, but... found a bug. :/

Using an OCO to recolour a Bank 7 object (7,6). Problem is only some of the leaves are being generated in the new colour; most are coming out the original colour (and I did spell 'colour' the American way in the code).

Screenshot exampling the editor and the level. (And an unrelated typo, as it happens *grumble*.)
(Also, this isn't 'Dragon Myth'. I wanted to make a small level using some of the Community Tileset... tilesets.)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: djsolidsnake86 on November 07, 2014, 16:50:25
what is single pass render?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on November 07, 2014, 23:51:34
I suppose you mean the "Use sigle pass render" option in the options menu.
It basically determines how the game loads the screens everytime you move between screens. In the original Knytt Stories, when you enter a new screen the game will first load all background and collision tiles. and only after that it's done it will load any interactive or animated objects. This helps prevent plenty of glitches caused by loading tiles and objects simultaneously, but can result in noticeable "Blinking" when a screen has fullscreen custom objects or waterfalls. KS+ exclusive levels instead do load both tiles and objects on a "Single pass" and tries to fix the bugs trough alternative methods. But can cause the game to feel "Laggy" when going between screens. The option you see on the menu allows you to force one loading method or the other. When enabled it uses the method for KS+ exclusive levels. When disabled it uses the vainilla KS method.

TL;DR: It causes different effects when entering new screens, Leaving it enabled causes lag on object-intesive areas and possible gitches, Leaving it disabled causes graphical annoyances.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 08, 2014, 02:06:26
@Talps: That object must have more than one colour. For rain I had to overwrite 3 different colours for custom colours to work. It shouldn't be too hard to fix. :)

@Firecat: Thanks for fielding that question. :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on November 08, 2014, 02:40:53
Is that something I need to do in my programming or something you'll patch?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on November 11, 2014, 07:24:51
Well, this was a rather strange (and somewhat alarming) bug.

When I just reopened the level I was working on, all the script-related information (shift, warp, trigger, sign) for the last screen I worked on had disappeared!  Everything else seems to be intact, thankfully, and it's not too much trouble to put everything back into place, but I KNOW I had to have this information saved because I playtested the level multiple times before closing the level editor earlier today.  No idea what happened or why, but it should be all okay!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 20, 2014, 01:39:37
@Talps: I'll have to fix it in the source.

@Ultigonio: I've no idea how that could have happened. Maybe you had the script open in a text editor? I used to use notepad++ to do my source editing before I made Level Editor Plus. Looki's editor mod was always overwriting the World.ini on me.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on November 27, 2014, 04:34:33
Well, this is rather bizarre.  I know I sent you a few things about what I would like fixed if possible in KS+, Ego, but this particular side effect of my level is significantly interesting that I thought it was worth posting here.  It turns out that, if you're carrying a delayed shift when you run through a shift that triggers on touch, it immediately "activates" the delayed shift.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on November 29, 2014, 00:48:47
Huh. The shifts are so much more complicated than they used to be. You're clearly using them in ways I never considered. I'm not sure if I can even sort out what problems there might be, or if they're even problems or "features." ;)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on December 02, 2014, 21:01:02
After 3 hours of painstaking scrutiny, I finally solved the Area Ambiance problem. The program doesn't wait for loops to finish, so it was updating the volumes while it was still determining what they should be. -_-

I'll look through the last few pages of this thread and see what other pressing faults KS+ has before making a release. I'm aiming for a new version tomorrow. Then, I'll see about updating the stand-ins version.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on December 04, 2014, 04:34:40
Ahhh! Sorry about the triple-post, but...

Knytt Stories Plus 1.1.3 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

This version fixes several bugs.

I'll make a stand-in version of the current build if it proves stable. :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on December 27, 2014, 04:38:16
  • Teleport Flashes work with relative movements that wrap you back to the current screen.
You have no idea how much I appreciate this fix.  It seems like such a small thing!

That said, in my constant mucking about, I discovered another weird bug: it seems that, specifically while screen wrapping is active, crossing screen boundaries while cloaked will cause the hologram to disappear.  The player can uncloak, but until then, there's simply no hologram - at all.  If you cloak near a creature like, say 14:18 (the upside-down spike-elongator), and then drop off the screen boundary, the thing retracts its spikes.  If you cloak and drop off a screen boundary with a chaser on screen, it just... keeps going in a straight line - toward wherever your hologram was, but eventually passing it entirely.  Also notable is that the seems to be unique to KS+; just to be sure, I checked that it didn't occur in the most recent build of vanilla KS.

edit: Just for grins, I tried out the last beta version of KS+, and the bug occurs there as well.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on December 29, 2014, 05:14:41
That said, in my constant mucking about, I discovered another weird bug...
Uh oh! That sounds like a serious issue. Better get back to modding. :/
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on February 23, 2015, 17:15:57
Um... is it possible to force the umbrella open, like flag-removing it when it was open used to do? I was pondering about ideas and I thought that the way the umbrella effects walking, jumping and falling might be good to simulate underwater movement. It'd require making the umbrella invisible, but also stopping the player from closing it - and if you were to put savepoints in this underwater sequence, forcing them to open it when they respawned...
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 01, 2015, 16:33:33
Um... is it possible to force the umbrella open, like flag-removing it when it was open used to do? I was pondering about ideas and I thought that the way the umbrella effects walking, jumping and falling might be good to simulate underwater movement. It'd require making the umbrella invisible, but also stopping the player from closing it - and if you were to put savepoints in this underwater sequence, forcing them to open it when they respawned...
No there isn't. The stuck umbrella bug is one of the few things I intentionally changed from KS Original (if memory serves.) So, old levels that use this bug to advantage wont work in KS+. This however sounds like a great underwater movement solution. I always imagined the need for swimming and swimming animations and felt it was all too much. I'm modding today for Ultigonio's sake, so I'll look at the source and see if I can't work something out.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 01, 2015, 22:14:27
Here's 1.1.4 for testing. (http://egomassive.com/ks+/KS+114.zip)

I've fixed the Hologram+Warping issue Ultigonio found. And, I've added physics for underwater movement. For the second one I made it simple for you. In bank 0, object 48 makes the whole screen act like water. Objects 49 and 50 make only the area they cover act like water. By "act like water" I simply mean that Juni's movements are adjusted to act more floaty and slow. Please, let me know how it feels and what you think needs adjusting.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on March 01, 2015, 23:29:00
The fix seems to be working out perfectly, thank you so much!

I also tested out the new water physics object, and I've found that it can be somewhat unreliable to escape Swim Areas, and it seems like it's slightly set to the right (so that I'm not inside it if I'm on the far left of a water area tile, and that I am inside it if I'm on the far left of a tile to the right of a swim area tile (see image below if that's unclear*).  I'm also not entirely sure if object 50, the half-size one, is doing anything.  I may just be using it incorrectly.

*this one: (http://i.imgur.com/GumVwh8.png)

Also, this happens and it's kind of funny (and probably unintended): http://www.hitbox.tv/video/437299
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 02, 2015, 04:54:41
Wow! Guess I should have tested underwater updrafts. I'll need to adjust the placement on those SwimArea tiles for them to work correctly. Your level's looking fantastic btw.

edit: I've no idea what's going on in that video. I thought the updrafts might have caused something to go haywire, but I can't reproduce it. The area tiles were misplaced. I'm not sure what to do about exiting water. It's tricky.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on March 02, 2015, 05:35:50
Thank you!  It wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for your mod, and your submarine tileset has been invaluable asset to crafting a simple, yet reasonably appealing aesthetic.

Also, just to clarify - the goofy movement bug that I made happen was caused by me holding out the umbrella and jumping.  After messing with it a bit more, it seems like the cause, more specifically, is entering a Swim Area after exiting one with the umbrella, since exiting a Swim Area with the umbrella held out causes Juni to maintain the "Swim Area with umbrella out" physics.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 12, 2015, 16:25:17
Here's a new version of 1.1.4 for testing. (http://egomassive.com/ks+/KS+114.zip)

I never saw the water/umbrella bug first hand, but I think I know what the cause was. I've made all the logic a little more robust. I've also modified the physics a bit when the umbrella is in play. Now you sink very slowly if it's open. It plays havoc with the climbing animation though. I still need to work on making it easier to exit the water. I'll probably add a little jump boost when you emerge. There's always been a similar boost when you climb to the top of a cliff to get you over that edge.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on March 12, 2015, 18:47:12
That swim area is really cool. I've already started implementing it.

Questions about several possible features:

1. I assume this will be impossible but could a fly area exist using a similar mechanic to the swim area but using the umbrella open speed of the Bank 15 Object 5 wind gust?
If this is impossible, as I assume because even if it were using it along having the swim area would probably be too much of a hassle, could you make it so Bank 15 Object 5 is capable of being used as a custom object override?

I want to implement using an umbrella as a jetpack but filling many screens entirely with the wind gust object is not really visually palatable. (I now realize hiding the wind gust is probably a better solution to the fly area as you would have more granular control by turning the jetpack off and on)

2. Movement sounds, can they be turned off and on somehow? The sound is always feet hitting a hard surface, but if the surface were clouds the movement sounds come off as harsh. Also, the swim area itself seems to want this, whether Juni is fully submerged or you're using it simulate her running over mud, her feet are the same volume as before she enters and when she exits the swim area.

I was also toying with the idea of having a custom character spritesheet that hovered but then I realized Juni would still make the running sound, so I ditched that.

If either of these require too much work, don't worry about it, I'm just asking on the off chance that these things might be easy to do.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 13, 2015, 23:05:07
@Plural: I'll look into it. I imagine the screen of up-drafts would be easy to implement. I can certainly make up-draft graphics override-able. Sounds based on terrain I originally avoided because Saira had this and I expected KU would too. I didn't want to undercut the attraction of making levels for those two games. I'm also worried about the performance of user sounds. Muting/damping Juni's movement sounds may be doable.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on March 31, 2015, 18:03:36
Bug:

Tried making an OCO out of 2, 32 and its animation didn't play. I based it off of the template in the template folder; it flew around and killed me as it should, but only as a static image.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on April 12, 2015, 23:56:59
Some minor things I don't know if they're bugs or are intentional:

Cutscene ambiance resets back to the beginning of the song/sound when the cutscene is triggered, it also resets to the beginning the song/sound when the cutscene is ended. (Probably just the ways things are but I was hoping the function would be more fluid and keep playing the ambiance that was already playing and carry the cutscene playing the ambiance to the next area that's playing the same ambiance).

Cutscene fade color: it says that black is 8, but 1 is black and 8 is a sort of reddish-black. I don't know if this is intentional because of how black becomes transparent along with that purple and actual black might best be avoided. Though I set my cutscene fades to 1 and they all function normally and are black.

Title: The title's black background is the reddish-black 8, mentioned above, and the subtitle's background is probably a 1 because it's much more black. I'm not sure if the mistake was not having the subtitle be the reddish-black as well or what.

I don't have a problem with the 8 color, I'd prefer black, but I should think that the title and subtitle background colors are supposed to be the same.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on April 15, 2015, 04:09:27
@Plural: The music restarting when going from cutscene to gameplay is carried over from the original KS. I kept it since I wanted original levels to play as though they were on the original engine. I didn't realize I messed up the black on the title/subtitle. It could be real black since it has an alpha channel. The thing with using 8 for black is that true black often becomes clear in MMF. Using 8 instead of something more subtle stems from parts of the MFF programming rounding colors to their nearest byte, and we wouldn't want it to round to zero and decide to be invisible. The best black not including 0 is actually one bit of blue, 65536, I normally suggest a byte of red because 8 is an easier number to remember.

@Talps: Yup, that's a bug. Since it only has one animation, it never initializes the animation, so there wasn't anything for the OCO listeners to pick up on. Normally it wouldn't be an issue, but this one has special restrictions to prevent it from changing the direction it faces. I've fixed it in my copy. Guess I ought to get around to making all the updates KS+ needs so I can make a new release. *star for you*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on June 05, 2015, 07:51:15
Oof! Can't believe I'm still updating this baby!

Get Knytt Stories Plus 1.1.5 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

What's inside:The sound muffling is a surprisingly nice improvement. Glad you talked me into it Plural.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on June 05, 2015, 20:20:41
Woo, now I get to see how ugly my 15:5 OCO is! :P

Muffling sounds is awesome but I'd rather it wasn't attached to the cloud object since I use said object for ash and dust at times.

Haven't got around to trying out swim objects yet, but I will get to it soon. I'm hoping to get a big chunk of 'Dragon Myth' done this weekend.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on June 06, 2015, 04:30:07
Muffling sounds is awesome but I'd rather it wasn't attached to the cloud object since I use said object for ash and dust at times.
At the time I was implementing it, I figured most uses for the cloud object, including those with custom colourings, would be on soft materials. I suppose a dusty castle or ashy volcano would still have hard footfalls. I'll think about switching muffling to only the soft object and swimming.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on June 06, 2015, 09:18:56
I agree with Talps' sentiment surorunding cloud sound muffling. If I'm understanding correctly, it alters the sound effects in existing vanilla KS levels, which I frown upon to a mild degree. It's a feature I'm glad to see added, though! I've always found Juni's footsteps rather monotonous.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on June 06, 2015, 18:10:56
I agree with Talps' sentiment surorunding cloud sound muffling. If I'm understanding correctly, it alters the sound effects in existing vanilla KS levels, which I frown upon to a mild degree.
I would say try it before you knock it, but my most compelling thought against cloud muffling is what if you were playing an old level and the cloud object did not cover every inch of the clouds? There would be hard footfalls mixed in with soft foot falls. It would break immersion pretty badly.

Edit: I made some changes to 1.1.5. I took muffling off of clouds, but you can still get the effect with the Soft object. I made the muffled sounds a bit louder. I also tweaked mini map colors for dark colors. Now background gradients with subtle colors won't show as black on the mini map so often. Just use the same link as before.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on June 07, 2015, 17:53:40
A new bug: ctrl+s no longer mutes running sounds various sounds other than ambiance and music, seemingly at random; I've heard running and jumping sounds intermittently today while the game ought to have been muted, and possibly some monster sounds, too.

EDIT: Also, very minor thing but the template 3:12 is one pixel narrower than it should be (man, it had me worried for a moment; I couldn't work out where I'd gone wrong!)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on June 08, 2015, 06:34:17
Discovered a strange issue just recently: cyan artifact #3 (19:195) respawns after the player dies or leaves the room, regardless of whether or not it has been collected and the game has been saved.  This can lead to a rather silly situation where the player can pick up all 7 cyan artifacts simply by collecting that one, saving, dying, and repeating 6 more times.  This doesn't seem to happen with any of the other cyan artifacts.

Also, I don't know if I asked for this before, but I would definitely appreciate some way to 100% ensure that the player can't shift themselves inside the center of a pink disappearing block (15:37).  I presume you could solve it in a manner similar to how you handled the new invisible blocks?

Also also, the water works great!  I feel like there's some room for clever implementation in the level I'm working on, but I'm not sure I want to expand the scope even more, at this point....
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on June 08, 2015, 07:06:54
@Talps: Ah! This is what happens when you take long hiatuses from coding a very complex program. By allowing another part of the program to control volume levels, I've broken the protocols that control muting. Jumping and landing sounds happen in the same sound channels as most sound effects. After muffling a jump or a land the program sets the channel back to normal volume, thus allowing any sound to be heard if it's played on that channel. Oops. :oops: *star for you*

@Ultigonio: Dang! I thought I had those bugs all worked out. Each collectible has a unique bit stored in an integer. If you ever open up a save file after finding some collectibles you'll see the cryptic numbers they're stored in. These are decimal representations of the binary numbers the computer really uses. Unfortunately, if MMF2 has a straightforward way to work with binary numbers I never found it. So in the program all my bit-wise functions are in cryptic decimal format making it far too easy to screw things up. *I'll give you a star tomorrow*
Edit: Yup. The bit is 65536 in decimal, but it was checking the number 65636.


Edit: I've released an update to address these issues. The crumble blocks have been altered as suggested by Ultigonio. I forgot to mention this before, but the Title and Subtitle fonts are true black since version 1.1.5.

Get KS+ 1.1.6 (http://egomassive.com/ks)


Edit: I just found a tiny bug which I corrected. I just re-released KS+ 1.1.6 with this fix. When making it possible to loop music I used the Highlight key to reset music quickly to make it easier to test. I never removed this, so pressing H to keep the Screen Edge Highlight on would restart the music too.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on June 10, 2015, 02:51:50
I've updated the Features Demonstration (http://egomassive.com/ks+/egomassive-FeaturesDemonstration116.knytt.bin) level to include some newer features. Mainly swimming has been added to the underwater areas and there's an automated section.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on June 14, 2015, 22:59:25
Thank you so much for this update. I feel like I got all my wishes catered to, I'm gonna take advantage of this.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on June 15, 2015, 20:38:19
Glad to hear it Plural.

I know these updates are coming fast and furious, but I think this will be the last one for a while. I discovered a bug with the custom umbrella not layering correctly. Sometimes objects would pass between the umbrella and the player character. I've fixed that. I also want to warn any early adopters of the underwater physics objects that I moved them to Bank 1 with the rest of the water objects. This means you'll need to delete the object images from Data/Bank_0 yourself. And, you'll need to reapply them to any levels you've already used them in. Sorry, but it makes more sense this way.

Get KS+ 1.1.7 and Level Editor Plus 1.0.2 and Features Demonstration 1.1.7 (http://egomassive.com/ks)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on July 04, 2015, 14:18:22
Is it possible to 'flag off' golden creatures?
If not, could it be added? Or an ability to reset all collectibles? For reasons I don't want to go in to, I want to be able to reset the player back to start position, taking away everything she's collected en route; the secret golden creatures in the level are my only fly in the ointment.
However, I understand that the applications of such a feature might be limited so if you don't want to, that's fine.

In other news, I think I've found a bug. I've made OCOs of object 3,12 and unless my mind is totally unravelling, it only ever plays its first animation (the equivalent of the knytt blinking) when the object first loads, and then never repeats it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on July 06, 2015, 13:53:31
In other news, I think I've found a bug. I've made OCOs of object 3,12 and unless my mind is totally unravelling, it only ever plays its first animation (the equivalent of the knytt blinking) when the object first loads, and then never repeats it.
You found a big bug there. This one is in some of Nifflas' code. Sometimes when an animation is picked at random Nifflas used Random(3)+1. Random(3) generates a number from 0 to 2, so he added a 1 to make it from 1 to 3. The tool-tip even tells you to enter a number between 1 and 16 (because there are 16 possible animation sequences.) The problem is they are really numbered 0 to 15! Standard game objects have an error catching system that defaults to the '0' animation if a non-existent animation is selected. Override Custom Objects opt to do nothing.

I've already found 5 different objects with this issue. I'll need to sift through every object. :sigh: I suspect that MMF may have changed the way animations are numbered.

As for resetting collectibles, there's no mechanic for that. If it helps with "Dragon Age" then I'll add it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on July 06, 2015, 22:22:54
'Dragon Myth'. :P ('Dragon Age' may be a better title but it's already taken.)
It does, but it's for a... bonus feature, and not urgent.

Sorry to find such a big problem!


EDIT: Finally gotten around to making an underwater area. It works really well and adds a great dynamic to gameplay. Well done, Ego! It's inspiring me with some interesting ideas to try out in other context; puzzles with changing water levels and floating objects would have an interesting perspective from this new angle!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on July 15, 2015, 11:45:39
Here is the latest version:

Knytt Stories Plus 1.1.8 (http://egomassive.com/ks+/KS+.zip) - 4.6 MB

This has several bug fixes:
This has new features:

Edit: I made a demo level for these features. Get it here. (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=6590)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on July 15, 2015, 17:48:51
Ego, you are, as ever, awesome.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on July 16, 2015, 11:20:39
I have a small, belated criticism, feel free to ignore it if you feel strongly otherwise. I think the default sprites used for the golden creature locks are too abstract, and should be replaced with numbers (or possibly Roman numerals if you really don't want numbers). This would make it easy to tell what they require at a glance, then check the inventory to see how far away that goal is. I've been thinking this since they were introduced, but I figured with time I'd probably learn to remember what they all represented. Since that still hasn't happened, I figured I'd bring it up.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on July 16, 2015, 15:01:52
I have a small, belated criticism, feel free to ignore it if you feel strongly otherwise. I think the default sprites used for the golden creature locks are too abstract, and should be replaced with numbers (or possibly Roman numerals if you really don't want numbers). This would make it easy to tell what they require at a glance, then check the inventory to see how far away that goal is. I've been thinking this since they were introduced, but I figured with time I'd probably learn to remember what they all represented. Since that still hasn't happened, I figured I'd bring it up.
To be honest, I've never been satisfied with them. I didn't wan to use symbols from human cultures, since there's no guarantee that Knytt-folk understand them, or even that a human-aware entity created these blocks. On the other hand, the obscurity of them makes them hard for players to understand automatically. Let me see if I can come up wit something better.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on July 16, 2015, 16:21:49
Roman numerals might be good. I believe the clock in 'Knytt Underground' used them, though don't quote me on that.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on July 16, 2015, 16:23:52
First attempt...

@Talps: It's become clear that Knytt-folk and Humans exist in the same universe. Some have come in contact with remnants of humanity as in Knytt Underground. In another game a Knytt person met a human. However, Knytt-folk have a shaky understanding of humanity and their ways.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on July 16, 2015, 18:38:50
I'm well aware of that (though in what level does Juni meet a human? I must have missed that one); I have notes jotted down for a potential level based on that theme - including questioning how in a certain story Juni is rescued from a desert island via a human bird-machine even though we, as a species, no longer believe sprites, pixies, fairies and so on to exist outside of fairy tales*.

I feel though that numerals make a good compromise between something legible for the player and the logography that the knytts of KU interpret from our letters (the way they see 'U' as a cup and 'J' as a hook and so on). I meant to say that Nifflas seems to have felt the same since (if memory serves) he used Romand numerals himself in KU. I'd say Roman numerals more obviously represent quantities than numbers do since numerals depict the quantities pictographically while numbers are just symbols, and thus numerals would be easier to interpret as quantities to a creature unfamiliar with our writing.


*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on July 17, 2015, 00:18:02
Ah, good point about roman numerals.

in what level does Juni meet a human?
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on July 17, 2015, 11:36:07
Ohh yeah, stupid me. I was thinking about it even as I wrote that post, too, because it's one of the best pieces of evidence we have regarding the scale of knytts to humans. Clearly my brain was not working well yesterday.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on July 17, 2015, 12:28:26
I like this version of the gold blocks, but I worry that they're too flashy compared to the key blocks. I could take out the creature and center the numerals, but some of them are of odd width. The creature obscures that some of them are off center. Also the creature really drives the connection between these blocks and the golden creatures.

Edit: Oh hey, I forgot to mention this before! I put a visual effect on the alternate death sequence in version 1.1.8. Before playable characters froze in place. Now they freeze and fade to grey in a pixelated way. Fits rather well with the static sound effect.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on July 17, 2015, 19:38:43
Also the creature really drives the connection between these blocks and the golden creatures.

An alternate way to suggest this connection would be to use the same colour palette as the golden creatures for the whole sprite, and have the locks give off the same sparkle particles (maybe with something like an occasional diagonal shine animation). Then you could experiment with removing the creature from the design.

I might try to contribute some designs of my own at some point, assuming that wouldn't be trespassing on your domain.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on July 18, 2015, 23:52:18
For me, ensuring that the player is able to understand the connection between the golden blocks and golden creatures is more a part of the level design (forcing the player to cross up/over/around golden blocks that would later be unlocked on the way back).  I would definitely appreciate a better way for players to tell how many creatures they need for a specific block, but I feel like putting the creature on the block itself is a bit too visually busy compared to the general simplicity seen in KS art.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on July 19, 2015, 10:32:34
@Sergio: I like the idea of a shining effect. I don't mind at all if you try your hand at it.

@Ultigonio: I agree about the flashiness of all my designs thus far. It's hard to match the simplicity and understanding of a key and a key-hole. You make a good point about leaving the connection between blocks and creatures up to level designers. My philosophy is that I'm catering to the rank amateurs, be they designers or players. I should have a little more faith in the masses.

Edit: Bug report: I was messing around with "attachments" and discovered that layer 7 objects don't appear over the attachment when "overlay" is in effect. This conflicts with how my documentation says it should work, but in the program I added the instruction that always puts the attachment on top.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on August 02, 2015, 17:55:48
Something I've noticed, and this is true for both KS+ and the original game, the invisible block in bank 16, object 14 actually adds color to the game. This is true of every invisible block that has the lines through it indicating that creatures can't get through it as well as Juni. So the effected objects are: bank 16, object 14 - 16, 19 - 28. 17 and 18 are not effected. And the invisible block that allows creatures through it but blocks Juni bank 16, object 13, also does not change the color.

It adds 1 point of blue to the color in a 255 RGB color scale.
(http://i.imgur.com/OmsL6Sq.png)
Original blocks to the left, then where the invisible blocks were placed on the middle, and how they are rendered with the invisible blocks on the right.
The red was not part of the original image, it's just to show where the color changes from the invisible block adding 1 Blue point to blue on the RGB scale.

(http://i.imgur.com/KL64XY4.png)
1000x zoom on a single tile-sized cross section of the black side. True black on the right (#000000) and very, very dark blue on the left (#000001).

I've only begun to notice because I've taken to using invisible blocks to construct the level so that I don't have to use a tileset if I just make the entire screen by just painting a gradient and adding flourishes to the screen with the tileset. It's easy to be unnoticeable if you don't use zoom, and also if the tiles you use it on are not surrounded by the same singular color. This isn't necessarily something that needs a fix as 99% of people will never notice it but I just thought I'd point it out because it does cause some things to look strange with 3x zoom. Also, if anyone else was seeing this and thinking there was something wrong with the way the picture is being rendered (I tried repainting the gradient like 3 times to fix this until I noticed it was only where invisible blocks were placed).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 02, 2015, 19:30:43
For the most part "Invisible" blocks are simply nearly-invisible graphics that are drawn into the background and collision mask. Unfortunately the underlying program, multimedia fusion, does not have an option to draw only to the collision mask, and it treats pure black as invisible by default. Using #000000 and an alpha channel would not work in this case.

The other objects you pointed out are not drawn into the collision mask or the background. They reside invisibly on screen as objects. The creatures in the game are hard-coded to obey the specific invisible block that blocks them, in many cases on an individual basis.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 03, 2015, 18:14:21
I've released a new version.

Get KS+ 1.1.9 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

This has new versions of Golden Creature blocks. It also makes attachments and overlays work together the way I thought they did.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on August 07, 2015, 22:58:44
I like the new Golden Creature locks. The attachments and overlays changes have caused me to have to fix a few things and sadly irredeemably ruined my layering in a particular screen, but I guess it makes more sense overall now.

I was wondering, would it be possible to have an object that blocks all user input except for the 'down' key? It would save scrambling to correctly layer 'no climb', 'no jump', sticky', 'sign' and 'shift' blocks during ingame cutscene conversations.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 07, 2015, 23:26:12
Sorry about that Talps. Normally I would be hesitant to make such a large change to something established. According to my memory and the documentation it was supposed to work the way it does now. Even for the conversion of Healy's little level I had to turn layer 2 into custom objects in order to put it behind the player.

I had considered making a combintion object that acts as sticky, no-jump, and no-climb because they are often used together. I didn't because I felt the advanced signs, timed shifts, and hide-shifts would eliminate much of the need for these situations. Granted, some of these can be rather tricky to use. You can usually remove the climb power at the beginning and return it at the end if you know for certain that the player has it, but this is only necessary if there is the possibility of being in or near a wall. ... For simplicity's sake I ought to just make the combination object.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on August 10, 2015, 10:45:22
If there are two shifts on a screen with a timed shift and you move to a second untimed shift after being on a timed shift, it seems to combine the shifts together occasionally, but in such a way that seems based on the timing of when you leave the timed shift and enter the untimed shift's area. Also, both of the shifts are being used as a shift on touch.

To explain further, I had two separate screens that are the same except one has a laser and one does not. This is before the feature of shift saving, so to create "fail states" I was using a shift that goes to a further duplicate that would have an animated death screen based on using the relative placement of a trigger. So you would shift from being "hit" with the laser into a death scene. The laser itself is just a separate shift. But initially to have the laser be an obstacle rather than a wall, it turns on and off in intervals using timed shifts which push Juni back and forth through two screens. Except the area with the laser shifts Juni into the death screen instead. The problem is that it seems to combine the shift-on-touch timed shift with the separate shift-on-touch untimed shift. So if I want the the untimed shift to go ShiftXMap(A)=2 it will actually shift 3. And the only thing I can think that's making it happen is the that the timed shift is saying ShiftXMap(B)=1. If I test level directly onto the Shift A it will work, shift to the death screen and sometimes the timed shift will not result in this error, the unpredictability of it makes me think it can only be the timed shift. On other screens using ShiftXMap(A)=1 and ShiftXMap(A)=-1 ShiftXMap(B)=1, The negative 1 sometimes wins over the B in this case and doesn't add them together but it just becomes -1.

I've also experienced screens that appear to be correct but the geometry is wrong, like it's showing me one screen but the collision masks and the shifts are of another. I've also seen the opposite where I've shifted into void screens only to have a shift suddenly work and then I'm out of the void screen and into the screen I was supposed to have shifted into in the first place. And this has also happened when exiting a screen that uses a timed shift on touch back and forth between two screens and when leaving either screen using a warp, though this is much less likely to cause an error, I do believe it can and I believe that it's, again, caused by using a timed shift-on-touch in a near screen encompassing manner or simply having the timing be very close to another shift's activation when it's shift-on-touch.

I've also found that it finds certain shifts more acceptable than others, in the way that it is removes likelihood of the error if instead of having the final "death" shift screen X=3 if you put it below as Y=1, it doesn't seem to add them together. But even with using a shift of Y or X instead of Y with whichever one of the timed shift-on-touches are originally using there are some strange results with the second shift that results in the death screen. Sometimes aspects of that shift-on-touch will not activate, if it says "stop music" only sometimes will it stop music even if it shifts to the correct screen. As if maybe the other shifts are retaining the aspect of the timed shift-on-touch while still using the other shift-on-touch to tell Juni where to go.

In general I'm just finding timed-shifts used anywhere near other shifts and even warps have really unpredictable results. Granted, they're probably not supposed to be used this way and the save-replacement shifting can produce the same results but I created a lot of content for these timed shifts already. If you need me to upload what I have my level to show you what's happening, I will. Though it's really hard to get predictable reproduction of bugs when it comes to this problem.

Screw it, here's the level: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3jzfb7wwe5eb1gt/plural%20-%20The%20Empty%20Planet.knytt.bin?dl=0

On x1053 y1037 is the easiest way to see the error because it reproduces most easily. Shift B on that screen is supposed to shift X=2 but it will Shift X=3 into a void screen many times upon exiting the timed shift's area of Shift A, into the Shift B area. If you "test level" starting inside the Shift B it will work correctly, but if you test the level outside in Shift A then go into Shift B, it will, more often than not, in my experience, go into a void screen.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 10, 2015, 22:51:39
That is a very complex post. I will look into this issue using the level. I'll tell you in advanced that some shift functions only activate once per overlap, and there are some functions won't activate if you are touching another shift. It's to resolve conflicts where adjacent shifts have opposing instructions. It's aimed at a scenario where you cross the first shift, it activates, you touch the second shift while still residing on the first, the second shift activates, you turn and cross back over the first shift, it has already activated while being touched so it does not activate again. These features are also dependent on shift-on-touch activation.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on August 11, 2015, 00:09:17
That explains why sometimes the "stop music" effect does not work occasionally. I imagine it's because it's probably the only thing with opposing instructions within the two shifts, aside from the distance in screens. This isn't like a huge deal because I've pretty much resigned myself to either fixing this with redundant screens or just scrapping the idea altogether. But the way the shifts add into each other really made my brain fry trying to figure out what I was doing wrong, I initially thought I had just put too much stuff into the level and it was imploding or something.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 11, 2015, 02:51:14
Wow! There was a huge hole in my logic here. The delayed shifts opened the door to having multiple shifts marked as active. The instantaneous shift was cancelling the delay on the other one, and both shifts ran through the the teleportation routine together. Therefore, when the change in X was added to the map, both values were added in!

Below is a direct link to a fixed version for you to test Plural. I need to notify Ultigonio of this fix and make sure that I'm not ruining the level he's developing. If it's a problem for him I may need to be more creative.

KS+ 1.2.0 beta* (http://egomassive.com/ks+/KS+120.zip) 4 MB
*There was previously a 1.2.0 beta for single-pass rendering KS+. This is not it.

Edit: Ahh! I found another mistake in the timed-shift code (see image.) The top line will let the program act only on the timed-shift that has expired. The bottom line will let the program act on all timed-shifts if one of them has expired. The top line is the one I should have used. Fixing this will give dramatically different behavior if the shifts don't cause the screen to switch, or more than one type; A, B, or C; is used as timed-shifts on the same screen. Example: A row of Shift-A set to move the character one tile up after 1 second will act once in the current version. If I fix it, it will act for each Shift-A you touched as they expire.

Point is I don't want to change this until I know I'm not destroying all of Ultigonio's hard work.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on August 11, 2015, 19:29:02
I've only done some very brief testing, but it looks like everything seems to be working just fine (except for the shift/trigger animation, which seems to be playing very, very quickly)!  As it turns out, this is a huge boon for my level, too, since it means that the few areas where a player could trigger a non-delayed shift near a delayed shift will no longer be any trouble!  This reopens a few doors for things that I wanted to try, so I'm happy about that.

I'm also noticing that the "other mistake" in your timed-shift code sounds something like the player can hold onto multiple timed shifts at once and have them act separately?  That could be quite exciting for my level, if it doesn't break it outright. :P2

Thanks for keeping me in the loop on this, ego, I really appreciate it!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on August 12, 2015, 12:32:46
While looking at Tomatoes (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=6615.0) with the KS+ Editor, it occurred to me it would be nice if it displayed the same tile overlaid on top of itself the same way as it looks in-game (this is flaw carried over from the original editor).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 12, 2015, 22:44:05
The official 1.2.0 update is released. It features the timed shift fixes we've been talking about, and a sticky/no-climb/no-jump combination object, 0:49. This combination works exactly as if you placed all three separate objects on the same tile, thus sticky and no-jump affect the bottom edge of the tile above where you place it.

Get KS+ 1.2.0 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

There's a Level Editor update is on the agenda. I want to include help tips for the new objects. There are a few new instructions that should be added to the script editor. It's high time I looked into the issue Sergio pointed out. I'm considering showing the correct layering when overlay is in effect.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on August 13, 2015, 15:03:14
Another suggestion, this time from playing Juni in the Haunted House (http://www.glorioustrainwrecks.com/node/9556). When using stop music shifts to block sound in a certain part of the room, sound will actually continue playing at low but audible volume. I checked original KS, and it does this as well but the volume is a lot lower. I think it should probably be muted entirely as that seems like the intended effect.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on August 13, 2015, 16:48:17
Awesome!!  I'm ecstatic that I can now have the player stack shifts - now I just need to find a way to make it so the sound cues don't clash too much when the player uses multiple delayed shifts.  I may also need to make sure that players can't abuse this feature too much.  :P

These improvements are so nice that I think I'll use them as a boosting point to launch myself back into work on Deep Freeze.

...After I finish my bit for LPChip's 100-star level, hah.  Hah.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 14, 2015, 02:53:49
Glad to hear it Ultigonio.

Sergio, I'm surprised to hear that the music doesn't mute entirely. I'm sure it's a happy accident that you can use stop-music shifts in this way, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved. I'll certainly need to see why it works differently than in original KS.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on August 15, 2015, 23:56:21
Forgive me if I'm missing something well known but I can't seem to use any CO from 49 or higher. Is this a known thing? Is there a workaround?

I've never come close to using so many COs in a level before. I have a vague feeling of hearing about COs having an upper limit, but I also had a vague feeling that this was something KS+ fixed. Maybe I'm wrong on one or both counts.
To clarify, no numbers appear in the bank and nothing appears in the editor or ingame when I try and place CO 49 into my level.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Fubaka on August 16, 2015, 00:43:45
Forgive me if I'm missing something well known but I can't seem to use any CO from 49 or higher. Is this a known thing? Is there a workaround?

I've never come close to using so many COs in a level before. I have a vague feeling of hearing about COs having an upper limit, but I also had a vague feeling that this was something KS+ fixed. Maybe I'm wrong on one or both counts.
To clarify, no numbers appear in the bank and nothing appears in the editor or ingame when I try and place CO 49 into my level.

If I remember correctly, plural's level 'Orientation' had more than 48 COs in it, and that was regular KS.

Actually, checking the .ini file, that level has 147 COs in it. I have no idea. You might want to contact plural about that.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on August 16, 2015, 01:04:13
Custom objects above #49 do work when they're defined in World.ini and placed in the map. However, the original KS editor won't let you use them by default simply because there are no icon files for them in the Data/Objects/Bank255 folder. You can create an icon file for the object slot you want to use, and then the editor will let you place it in your level.

I don't know if the KS+ editor needs this workaround too, though.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on August 16, 2015, 01:18:43
Huh, i thought KS+ already came with all the Custom Object thumbnails. This thread (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=4366.0) contains some more info and download files, although i don't know if the links are still active.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on August 16, 2015, 01:47:10
That seems to have done the trick, thanks all. But will it work when people who don't have tiles above 48 play my level?

Edit: Oh, and now I just used one of the new combined no jump/no climb/sticky blocks for the first time; thanks Ego, makes life so much easier!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on August 16, 2015, 01:57:35
Shouldn't be a problem. As far as I know, the icon files are only used by the level editor. The actual game doesn't care if the icon file for a CO is present or not.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 16, 2015, 02:10:49
That seems to have done the trick, thanks all. But will it work when people who don't have tiles above 48 play my level?
The lack of CO icons in the data folder will not affect gameplay.
Spoiler: explanation (click to show/hide)
VG and Firecat are correct. The fix for this is to add more icons to the Data/Objects/bank255 folder.

Do you guys think I should add these icons into KS+? The set I use I made myself. They looks exactly like the original 40-something icons.
Edit: I checked the links on the thread Firecat found. 2 out of 3 are down, and the last is on a file-sharing site. Since these sites are unreliable for archiving I'll put the icons into the KS+ download. If you prefer the icons you use now to the ones I'll be including make sure you back them up. Merging the folders can overwrite them.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Fubaka on August 16, 2015, 02:12:11
Do you guys think I should add these icons into KS+? The set I use I made myself. They looks exactly like the original 40-something icons.

If you already have them, there's no reason not to, right?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on August 16, 2015, 03:18:02
I concur. It would be nice to have those included by default.

In fact, even if I haven't yet tried to make a KS+ enhanced level, I'm probably going to use the improved editor in my next project. Those stacked translucent tiles I used in my levels (especially the last one) were a pain to handle in the regular KS editor. Reading that there's a fix for that coming up made my day :D
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 17, 2015, 16:25:46
After trying many many things, I fixed the level editor's failure to draw identical tiles layered on top of one another. However, it's so hacky and ridiculous that I hate it! >( The bug is caused by one of those internal MMF behaviors that programmers have no access to. It seems to be pure luck that it works in KS itself.

When KS draws a screen it adds whole layers at a time. When the level editor draws a screen it goes tile by tile. This is so when you change one tile it only has to update that coordinate's stack of graphics. What difference in these 2 methods causes one to work and not the other I cannot determine.

My solution, is to draw each tile in 2 parts. For each layer I split the tile in a different way. It never draws the same partial tile in the same spot, so it works even when it's the same whole tile.

I haven't released it yet. It should be out soon.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on August 17, 2015, 17:57:43
Um, if this is going to make the editor even more laggy I'd rather do without it. :/
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 18, 2015, 01:48:28
That's exactly what I'm worried about with a fix like this. I doubt it's a noticeable difference. I'll run some tests to see. It might have to become a menu option. I'm also considering giving each virtual layer it's own actual layer. Currently there are 3 layers for the gradient, the tiles, and the objects. If I switch that to 9 layers then I shouldn't have this drawing issue and I'll be able to seamlessly move layer 2 to it's "overlay" position. This will take a lot of time to implement, so I'm still thinking about it.

The biggest lag with the editor is a built in one. It hangs for 10 frames to give itself time to check tilesets and gradients for compatibility. I vaguely remember making it not check if you're trying to rapidly scroll through screens. Recently I've been considering just doing away with these checks. Personally they're a nuisance. It's not going to crash the game if a designer uses a poorly sized gradient or chooses an ambiance track that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on August 18, 2015, 03:52:34
Honestly, testing overlaying tiles is much less annoying to me than not being able to see things at all that you can only see at 2x or 3x zoom. The only thing I'd really want out of an editor improvement, that would be absolutely huge, to how I make levels, is a zoom feature in the editor.

A couple things I've noticed:
I can't get the "set start" to hold onto flags. It's not as if it tries and doesn't work I enable a flag on the start and then the start is set but the flag enabled just goes away. It's not visual because I've tested the level as well and the flag isn't enabled. I've used a shift over where you start to get around this.

Swim blocks are causing their sort of launching capability (when you exit them) to carry over in a screen above them. So when you jump from a screen with the top of water to the next screen above them if there's nothing to block you immediately Juni is launched like she's hitting a couple updraft blocks with her umbrella open. It's not reproducible 100% of the time but it happens more than half the time, at least.

It's actually really enjoyable because it's like Juni has a super jump, it's like an updraft object without the slowing effect of opening an umbrella.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on August 18, 2015, 05:37:04
Swim blocks are causing their sort of launching capability (when you exit them) to carry over in a screen above them. So when you jump from a screen with the top of water to the next screen above them if there's nothing to block you immediately Juni is launched like she's hitting a couple updraft blocks with her umbrella open. It's not reproducible 100% of the time but it happens more than half the time, at least.

I get this boost when jumping to the screen above regardless of whether I've touched water or not, there just has to be a water surface object on the lower screen. Maybe you meant this already, though. I think it might qualify as a bug that ought to be fixed regardless of how fun it is, so hopefully you're not designing challenges around it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on August 18, 2015, 07:03:50
I think it might qualify as a bug that ought to be fixed regardless of how fun it is, so hopefully you're not designing challenges around it.
No, I only meant that it's an interesting feature if it could be isolated for its entirely own block, to have a sort of single use updraft block that didn't require an umbrella.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on August 18, 2015, 08:01:35
I think I've figured out the nature of the bug, by the way! It's when there's a water object at the bottom the screen at the same y position as the player. I've seen Juni's coordinates change before a new room is loaded many times, so I'm guessing it's related to that and she's hitting the water object for a split second before the start of a new room.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 18, 2015, 11:30:25
Oy! I've had so many issues of this nature. Thanks for finding it plural and thank you for figuring it out Sergio. I'll certainly be fixing that. I just knew that the extra push needed to get out of the water was going to cause physics anomalies.

As for a scaled up version of the editor, I too have been wanting it to be easier to see lately. I've been doing a lot of level design when I'm tired. It would be a huge undertaking because there are 3 windows embedded in a parent window and 90% of the editor is based on Cartesian coordinates. I had an idea to leave the editor as it is, but create a separate, scale-able preview window. No promises at this time.

Edit: I've been working on the preview window for the editor. It was coming together great until I discovered a problem. It seems that issue with the backgrounds being drawn wrong has manifested in another way. When the preview window closes any graphic identical to one that existed in the preview disappears from the editor's canvas when you mouse over it. This has to be a major bug with the Active Picture object used to draw the screens. I'm hoping the solution may be as simple as swapping it out for another picture tool.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 21, 2015, 18:55:09
Here's the Level Editor update.

Get KSLE+ 1.0.4 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

What's new:
*The map editor section must have focus for the preview panel to show. The preview panel will only show the layers you have set to be visible. It will reorder the layers if overlay is active. If you have the script panel open it will use your unsaved data for COs and Overlay. The accurate screen drawing was much slower than before. Since the preview panel draws correctly I left the canvas as it was. I can't test the auto-scaling for larger screen sizes,  1800:720 and 2400:960. I'd appreciate hearing if it looks right to anyone out there with enormous monitors.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on August 22, 2015, 17:31:47
Forgive me if this has already been asked before (I did try searching the entire topic multiple times), but I have a small request/suggestion: would it be possible to make the game stay in fullscreen mode after pressing F2 to return to the main menu, if you had this mode enabled? It's a bit annoying having to toggle fullscreen mode off and on every time I want to quit a level to play another one, because doing that changes the screen resolution (which takes my monitor a few seconds to process and messes up my desktop a little).

I noticed you enabled the F2 key shortcut while in fullscreen mode, which is already a nice improvement over the original KS, but it would be great if you could reset the game without having to press Alt+Enter more than once per session.

BTW, I'm not sure if 1920x1200 qualifies as an enormous resolution, but I tested the new preview function and it seems to be working fine. The overlapped tiles that can't be seen in the main editor window show up correctly in the preview, just as you said. Nice! :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 23, 2015, 10:55:40
@Vegetal Gibber: Thanks for checking the 1800x720 scale for me. It's really the 2400x960 scale that I was calling enormous. I was just thinking of forwards compatibility with that one.

I suppose your fullscreen request is possible. Currently F2 completely restarts the application, but I see no reason why it can't return you to the main menu the way winning a game does.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Alan on August 25, 2015, 23:21:06
@Vegetal Gibber: Thanks for checking the 1800x720 scale for me. It's really the 2400x960 scale that I was calling enormous. I was just thinking of forwards compatibility with that one.

I suppose your fullscreen request is possible. Currently F2 completely restarts the application, but I see no reason why it can't return you to the main menu the way winning a game does.
Well, you can consider the 2400x960 scale working correctly at least on my system.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 26, 2015, 14:45:51
Thanks Alan. I'm thinking of making the 300% scale setting used in KS+ into a maximum auto-scale setting. This means it would jump from 200% to 400% for you. As screens grow larger it could jump to 500%, 600%, etc.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on August 31, 2015, 14:46:17
Quick newbie question:

I have a few levels in the making that I'm interested in optimizing for KS+ while still keeping them compatible with the original KS. By "optimizing" I mean enabling the single-pass render mode by default, as these levels contain a lot of COs and could benefit a lot from the flicker-free screen transitions. Can this be accomplished by setting something in the World.ini file, or do I need to release a KS+ version separately?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 01, 2015, 04:48:39
I have a few levels in the making that I'm interested in optimizing for KS+ while still keeping them compatible with the original KS. By "optimizing" I mean enabling the single-pass render mode by default, as these levels contain a lot of COs and could benefit a lot from the flicker-free screen transitions. Can this be accomplished by setting something in the World.ini file, or do I need to release a KS+ version separately?

Sorry, that's not an option. It must say "Format=2" in the World.ini to play in original KS 1.2.1. KS+ will then use double-pass rendering by default. You can recommend using KS+ with single-pass rendering in your level's release topic or put it in your level's info image. Making a separate release for each platform isn't a bad idea either. I think it's best to assume that part of your audience will not follow such instructions. Also, making it a KS+ exclusive level when it doesn't need to be would be a bad choice. It would limit your audience only to KS+ adopters and the Knytt audience is full of players who aren't. I expect Dragon Myth will change that to a degree. :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on September 01, 2015, 05:30:16
I see, I think I'll go with the dual release plan then. I'm not using any KS+ exclusive features in these levels yet, but since it handles COs much better than the original, it's going to be the recommended version (mainly for the single-pass render mode and the memory leak fix). I may also take this opportunity to experiment with the bonus features and see what else could I add to the KS+ extended versions of these levels.

Thanks for the answer!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on September 01, 2015, 08:59:25
I don't know if you need this advice or not, but to deal with pop in of COs that are static and simply foreground objects, I try to always create a redundant layer 0-2 tile or even gradient image to help stop the pop-in. Also, I never use water blocks for the bottom of water, I always use a tileset block of the same color because those blocks are not necessary and create more CO pop-in. You can use this with even animated COs if the way they animate is from a static object. So a fan, you might animate the blades of the fan but actually use a tile for the base of the fan that doesn't appear to move. The pop-in there would only be the blades of the fan which is a much less jarring pop-in than the entirety of a fan.

Also, you can stop all pop-in with completely filled animated blocks. This isn't something I've done but something I've thought about doing because it would work for anything that's not randomly animated from the start. You can have the 0-3 tiles or the gradient have the image that is the start of the animation and simply have the background within the CO as its animated, so the starting position where a CO might start walking already has the CO's image placed as a tile or onto the gradient and you can put the background of that screen behind the CO, as long as it's on layer 4-5, you can have no pop-in for animated objects, aside from things like water/waterfalls that have random start points or animation routines.

The only way to beat the pop-in, though, in my opinion, is to stop caring about it. It's a perfectionist ideal that could probably lead to madness.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on September 01, 2015, 17:21:33
(Semi-OT)

Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it :) I hadn't thought of that trick for water objects, that may come in handy.

Normally the pop-in issue doesn't bother me that much, but this time I'm using fullscreen translucent COs for lighting effects, so the problem becomes more noticeable than usual (especially when combined with fast screen transitions). I've been using the duplicate tile trick to avoid the flickering in some cases, but this is not an option with most of these COs. KS+ makes the experience a lot better thanks to its improved rendering engine.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 08, 2015, 21:58:50
This is a big update for KS+.

Get KS+ 1.2.1 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

Updates:
*These were overly complex changes and I expect there to be bugs. Please let me know if you experience any problems.

Spoiler: Rantings (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on September 09, 2015, 00:34:01
Collectibles can't be collected from oposite side of screen when scrolling.

Hahaha, I'd totally forgotten about that one.  By the way, I'm noticing that the shift/item collect animation (the white circle that slowly fades out) is playing extremely quickly for me - has been since the beta of the last version came out.  Could that just be something on my end?

By the way - is there any possible method for changing the color of a screen as it appears on the map?  I remember something about save-file modification being mentioned somewhere, and it seems maybe like the color of a screen at any time is sort of decided by the save file (since changing the color of a screen and then loading up an old save file leaves you with the screen staying the color it was)?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 09, 2015, 06:33:43
Thanks for the feedback, Ultigonio. I had to rework several effects because something changed in Windows that broke them, at least that is the assumption I made since they were broken in original KS too. I really need to compare how they appear now to some old Let's Play vids.

For mini-maps there are several options. You can choose a room's color, hide rooms from the map, make rooms appear to be in a different location. There are detailed instructions in "KS+ Instructions.txt" and there are controls on the Misc. tab in Level Editor Plus. Also, in the editor there is a number above the top-right corner of the tileset that gives the color value of the current gradient.

Map save data is stored in a separate file. I never thought about overwriting that file along with the normal save file. Since it's a binary array, I'm afraid it would be difficult for level designers to work with.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on September 09, 2015, 09:14:51
Ah, sorry, I should have been a bit more clear - I was referring specifically to changing the color of a screen in the middle of a level.  For example, having a screen's mini-map color be yellow while a collectible is inside it, and then changing it (possibly with a shift) so a player doesn't think there's something still there.  It's a shame if I can't reasonably pull that off, but I think I may have just come up with a strong alternative plan to make it so the player will be totally able to see which golden creatures they've missed.

(I didn't know the bit about the color value of the current gradient, that's neat!)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on September 09, 2015, 11:07:40
  • SinglePass=True is a legacy instruction which I've allowed to work with original KS levels.
  • Reset does soft start now.*

Thank you for both of these! The new features will be very helpful to me :D

Spoiler: Bug report (click to show/hide)

I also tried the new 3x zoom feature. Seems to be working well on my system.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 09, 2015, 19:06:02
Thanks VG. *gives star* I updated to 1.2.1b. Get it at the link above. I've addressed the reset and rendering options issues. The translucent tile issue is a bug that will have to remain though.

Get KS+ 1.2.1b (http://egomassive.com/ks)

Changing the death sequence changes the applications background color. Unless you use a translucent gradient you'll never see the application background, so I used it for the gray color in the alternate death sequence. Apparently, a side effect of this is it upsets the delicate balance that makes tiles layered over themselves appear correctly. It's a bug in the underlying engine, so I can't fix it. If players are changing the death sequence then they've already lost immersion. A momentary graphical glitch shouldn't hurt anything.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on September 10, 2015, 13:19:42
I can confirm both the soft reset and the single-pass render preference option now work as intended. Neat!

As for the alt-death thing I mentioned, it's a very minor and obscure glitch, and I discovered it purely by chance. Most levels shouldn't have this issue at all. I just have this nasty habit of ruining everything good by doing strange things :P2
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on September 14, 2015, 20:08:10
I just downloaded 1.2.1 and i found a strange bug. If you put a white fly thing (Bank 2, Obj 8) inside a solid the rest of the flies on the screen will start to cluster on the bottom left. I know there's no reason to put a fly inside a block in the first place and this is something i don't really need fixed but this behavior doesn't occour on regular KS or KS+ 1.1.2.

Also, the Override Objects for the golden creature locks (Bank 15, Obj 31-36) are shown offset by 1 pixel and mirrored for some reason.
Edit: Also also, it seems the "powerup collected" flash is faster than normal, is this intended?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 14, 2015, 21:52:03
@Firecat: Thanks for the bug reports. *gives star* I have no idea what went wrong with those flys, but I must have done something.

Custom golden creature block pose an unexpected problem I had never forseen until now. OCOs all use the same logic to follow the behavior of the standard object they are imitating. One of those behaviors is that when an object looks to the left it moves over a pixel. I lumped the gold blocks into the same object as the key blocks but I used left facing animation slots. Therefore your custom animation looks to the left and slides over a pixel. Oops. It'll be easy to fix.

The flashes (pick-ups, teleports, saves, and springs) have been changed because they stopped working for many people. I'd be interested to know what version of Windows you are using if the flashes were still functioning. I intend to lengthen the fade out using old Let's Play videos for reference.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: bulbapuck on September 15, 2015, 16:17:18
Hey Ego!
I'm always hesitant to download mods to things, I don't know why. So I recently tried this mod for the first time, and oh my god is it good.
I love the small changes to how you play the game, the zoom feature in particular. The window being too small was for the longest time my only gripe with KS. That and all the new features for level creation has made me want to get back in it and create some levels.
 
So I just wanted to say thank you for creating this, it has really improved the KS playing experience. :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 19, 2015, 03:33:16
Get KS+ 1.2.2 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

This version fixes the 3 issues recently discovered:

@Bulbapuck: Glad you like it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on October 18, 2015, 06:12:07
Found an issue with the crumbling block (object 15-38); if you place it under a wall (like in the screenshot below), Juni can break it by jumping against that wall.  It'd be cool if this can be fixed easily, but if it's just an issue with how collision detection works in KS, then the workaround shouldn't be too hard (especially since I don't use many of these objects in this level to begin with).
(http://i.imgur.com/KLg8oId.png)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: LPChip on October 18, 2015, 12:51:13
I bet a workaround would be to place a 1 pixel thick invisible tile on layer 3 at both sides.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 20, 2015, 02:56:23
@Ultigonio: Uh, that's weird. I'll look into it after Halloween.

@Everyone: I received a PM about a problem someone is having. Has anyone experienced something like this?:
Quote
Has anyone else complained about levels disappearing? I have had a few levels that used to have content be completely cleaned out. all that is left is the folders so if you start the level you just end up in void. i can't figure out what would have deleted the data files. is it a bug with ks or maybe ks+? it only happens on my laptop so maybe there is some kind of conflict. (or it could just be that my ancient laptop sucks). thanks again for all you do.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Pie_Sniper on October 20, 2015, 03:43:01
Never had a problem with levels disappearing, but I've noticed that sometimes uninstalling a level deletes all of the data but leaves behind the empty folder. The level will show up in the list with no title and no author, just empty parentheses. I've seen it in the original KS as well as KS+. Always assumed it was related to a file handle not being closed somewhere, but I don't know how to reproduce it reliably.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 21, 2015, 03:00:15
I find it odd that the level can be launched. There should be an error message. I just remembered something. If you cheat-save in KS+, then load the level in KS, you'll be in the wrong spot. Normal saves point to a specific tile, but cheat-saves point to a specific pixel. So, if you cheat-save at pixel x500y200, original KS will start you 500 tiles to the left and 200 tiles down. That would put you in the wrong room altogether, most likely a void.

So if you're cheating in KS+ and want to switch to original KS to finish a level, be sure to save with a legitimate save spot first.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Comhon on January 06, 2016, 11:07:57
It seems this mod is very succesfull. It is well done and has a lot of useful features.
Think the most of people use it instead of original KS, not just to play KS+ levels, but also for the original ones.
On the Nifflas homepage, there is link to rrc2soft's website with DS homebrew version.
I think there could be a link to egomassive's website to download KS+. What do you think about it?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Firecat on January 11, 2016, 17:10:00
While i can't comfirm the "levels disappearing" bug. I just found out KS+ is able to run levels without anything on them instad of running the "level does not exist" handler from regular KS. You might find relevant that in such cases the game will create a world ini just to set the "new level" tag to 0.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 19, 2016, 11:45:14
While i can't comfirm the "levels disappearing" bug. I just found out KS+ is able to run levels without anything on them instad of running the "level does not exist" handler from regular KS. You might find relevant that in such cases the game will create a world ini just to set the "new level" tag to 0.
Interesting. I'm going to consider that a low priority issue. If a big bug shows up I'll work on this and the problem Ultigonio found, but for now I'd rather be level designing.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Fubaka on January 23, 2016, 03:49:26
Not sure if this exists already, but I'd really appreciate it if you added a Shift object that covered the entire screen. That would help me with my current project.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 24, 2016, 06:46:48
Not sure if this exists already, but I'd really appreciate it if you added a Shift object that covered the entire screen. That would help me with my current project.
Good idea. It probably wont happen though. The Shift subroutine is already super complex. Tinkering in that code is a frightening prospect.

Bug Report: I noticed that Area-Ambiance is still malfunctioning. With multiple instances the volume is based on the last one made rather than the closest one. :( Looks like I'll be digging back into the code soon to fix this and the minor issues some of you have found.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on January 26, 2016, 06:17:03
Small feature request as long as you're looking back into that - would it be possible to implement a different version of the 15:22 switch, with different versions of the orange block and white walls to match?  My thought is that it may be nice to have multiple switches that control totally different sets of blocks (press orange switch, clear orange blocks, press green switch, clear green blocks) to enforce even more tiered level design within a single screen.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 26, 2016, 06:24:59
@Ultigonio: Wow, another good idea! This one would be pretty simple to implement too. Only problem is there's already a green button. Not sure which colors are still up for grabs.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on January 27, 2016, 06:39:38
Cyan, perhaps?  It is orange's complement, after all.  Red blocks would likely be difficult to distinguish at-a-glance from the pink, disappearing ones, yellow may work but could be a bit too tough to tell apart from the orange, purple, similar issue to red.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 01, 2016, 22:13:28
Bug Report: I just discovered that 3 fields are missing in the World tab of the editor, version 1.0.4. I added a button to enable hologram limiting. I probably moved the fields out of the way and forgot to move them back. Oops.

I'm also experiencing crashes when calling up the preview window with the space bar. It doesn't happen very often, but be sure to save often if you are using it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on February 02, 2016, 14:54:33
Has something happened to single pass render? I'm getting flashes when entering rooms (specifically, in Exploring the Golden Land).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on February 02, 2016, 21:24:21
Has something happened to single pass render? I'm getting flashes when entering rooms (specifically, in Exploring the Golden Land).

Did that happen in the Nightfall area? It's probably the same issue my previous level (Curse of the Catacombs) had, caused by the use of full-screen COs to implement the lightmap. I remember egomassive saying the underlying engine rendered the custom objects in a weird way, and that it wasn't possible to *completely* suppress the flashes that result from this.

An interesting solution to this particular issue would be allowing the attached overlay feature to also function as a fixed position overlay. That would make it possible to implement these kind of lighting effects without having to use COs (as long as they don't need to be animated). Then again, this may be a lot of work just for a trick that is seldom used.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on February 03, 2016, 12:54:04
Did that happen in the Nightfall area? It's probably the same issue my previous level (Curse of the Catacombs) had, caused by the use of full-screen COs to implement the lightmap.

Yes. That sounds right.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 03, 2016, 15:26:19
Has something happened to single pass render? I'm getting flashes when entering rooms (specifically, in Exploring the Golden Land).

Did that happen in the Nightfall area? It's probably the same issue my previous level (Curse of the Catacombs) had, caused by the use of full-screen COs to implement the lightmap. I remember egomassive saying the underlying engine rendered the custom objects in a weird way, and that it wasn't possible to *completely* suppress the flashes that result from this.

An interesting solution to this particular issue would be allowing the attached overlay feature to also function as a fixed position overlay. That would make it possible to implement these kind of lighting effects without having to use COs (as long as they don't need to be animated). Then again, this may be a lot of work just for a trick that is seldom used.
Yeah, single-pass rendering is not perfect. Full-screen CO's are a weak spot. I never had any problems with Exploring the Golden Lands, but I'm using gigantic fog animations in a level I'm making, and it flashes rarely. I'm convinced that these flashes depend on the power/load of your processor. This means user experiences could vary widely.

Best practice for designers is to use custom objects conservatively. Tilesets are the best way to draw something on screen, so always use tiles when possible.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on February 03, 2016, 18:23:11
I never had any problems with Exploring the Golden Lands, but I'm using gigantic fog animations in a level I'm making, and it flashes rarely. I'm convinced that these flashes depend on the power/load of your processor.

It only happens approximately 1 of 5 times (in my case) during a screen transition, and only in the final area. It was more noticeable (especially when using vanilla KS) in my other level, where I used those lightmap COs in pretty much every screen.

Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on February 06, 2016, 19:06:21
So, things have been going fairly smoothly so far with KS+, but... something I don't really understand has just occurred.  When trying to implement a certain custom object, it... seems like the game's just ignoring the width/height that I decided to give.  No matter what I change those two values to, whether it be some absurdly high or absurdly low value, the exact same (incorrect) animation will play.  It'll listen to me giving it an end frame of 9, and a speed of 180, but totally ignores the dimensions.

Included is the offending CO.  I also tried switching the CO number from 21 to 22, that didn't seem to help, unfortunately.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 07, 2016, 07:36:26
@ Ultigonio: I just used the KS+ level editor to set up your animation, and it worked just fine. Here's the script it generated for me.
Code: [Select]
[Custom Object 255]
Image=fastforward.png
Tile Width=13
Tile Height=10
Init AnimTo=9
Init AnimSpeed=180
I picked slot 255 because it was convenient. If this looks no different from your copy, then I suggest you search your ini for duplicate group headers. If there's another object 21 declared somewhere in the script, then it could be changing the parameters. In the following example any instruction in the top group would be ignored if it's in the bottom group.
Code: [Select]
[Custom Object 21]
Image=fastforward.png
Tile Width=13
Tile Height=10
Init AnimTo=9
Init AnimSpeed=180

[Custom Object 21]
Image=fastforward.png
Tile Width=24
Tile Height=24

Or you could get this problem from a typo in the next group header. It will ignore something it doesn't understand and lump the 2 groups together. (Notice the missing bracket.) Again the last instructions take precedent.
Code: [Select]
[Custom Object 21]
Image=fastforward.png
Tile Width=13
Tile Height=10
Init AnimTo=9
Init AnimSpeed=180

Custom Object 22]
Image=fastforward.png
Tile Width=24
Tile Height=24
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on February 07, 2016, 08:52:10
Hmmm.  Neither of the possible issues you mentioned seem to present in Deep Freeze's script; I copied over the script for CO 255 into the level's script, ensuring that nothing else in the script was declaring CO 255, and it's still not working.  I tried using the CO in a different level and it worked there, as well.

...While I was writing this post, I decided to mess around with the setting for Object 20 (the one I added just before adding #21) - it... seems I've solved the issue?  I suppose the script tool in KS+ must have automatically overwritten whatever was causing the issue when I swapped the CO image.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on February 07, 2016, 21:36:53
Oh boy, time for more bizarre issues!  There seems to be a few screens that just... reset the map (I don't know precisely which screen because the bug seems to reproduce itself at random, when I don't expect it)?  I don't know if this applies to the whole map, or just part of the map, because I've only been testing a single, 20-screen area.  Furthermore, it only resets the map - not coin count or powerups.

Just to be sure it wasn't something sneaky trying to get by me in the script, I reviewed the two screens where the issue would have to occur, and nothing seems particularly odd - no save resetting or anything like that.  Here's the script for those two screens (spoilered for length because hoo boy):
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
[/code] < I can't convince the forum not to put this here
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 07, 2016, 22:28:38
Oh boy, time for more bizarre issues!  There seems to be a few screens that just... reset the map (I don't know precisely which screen because the bug seems to reproduce itself at random, when I don't expect it)?  I don't know if this applies to the whole map, or just part of the map, because I've only been testing a single, 20-screen area.  Furthermore, it only resets the map - not coin count or powerups.

Are you talking about the mini-map? KS+ doesn't save mini-map data when running in test-mode. It creates a special save file for test-mode enabling you to start at any location with any flags or powers.  I, uh, just thought it would be easier (for me) not to make a special mini-map save file for test mode. Since the mini-map loses any unsaved progress when you die, the test-mode mini-map goes blank every time you die or view a cutscene.

Feedback time! Should KS+ save mini-map data in test-mode? Would you benefit greatly (or even moderately) from it?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on February 07, 2016, 22:58:01
Since the mini-map loses any unsaved progress when you die, the test-mode mini-map goes blank every time you die or view a cutscene.
Huh!  So it does.  How did I never notice that?

Thinking on it, it should be totally fine to keep it the way it is right now.  For me, large-scale map tests are done in the proper playing environment rather than the testing one - I just needed to understand why that was happening, since it always seemed to occur in the same place (but of course, that was because I always died in the same place).  If I really need, I can just do smaller scale map tests in cheat mode, so I don't die while testing.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on February 08, 2016, 20:45:50
Not sure if this has been reported before, but I noticed something strange about the special invisible solid blocks, specifically objects 26-27-28 (Bank 16). When I put a "No Climb" object over them, it works as intended on the left side of the wall, but the player can still climb these blocks from the right side. You can't climb them in one go, but there seem to be a few pixels in the collision mask where the character can still hang from, so you can just keep jumping until you get to the top of the wall.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 09, 2016, 02:29:12
Not sure if this has been reported before, but I noticed something strange about the special invisible solid blocks, specifically objects 26-27-28 (Bank 16). When I put a "No Climb" object over them, it works as intended on the left side of the wall, but the player can still climb these blocks from the right side. You can't climb them in one go, but there seem to be a few pixels in the collision mask where the character can still hang from, so you can just keep jumping until you get to the top of the wall.
This has already been fixed. There is a better No-climb object near the end of Bank 0.

The collision mask for the original No-climb is what you see. The detector for climbing is a small column of pixels floating in front of Juni. No-climb can fail if the wall's edge does not meet the tile's edge. I did not change the original No-climb object for compatibility with existing levels. Believe it or not there is at least one level that exploits this fault.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on February 09, 2016, 14:21:22
Believe it or not there is at least one level that exploits this fault.

I've seen glitches used as features in user-made levels in many games, but it still surprises me everytime. Reminds me of when authors exploited the "Hall of mirrors" glitch in Doom levels to create water effects and other similar tricks.

Thank you for the explanation! (and sorry for repeating this question).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on February 15, 2016, 16:35:01
Minor issue: pressing F1 while hovering over the spot where the player can put in spoofed map coordinates will instead show the info for Attachments.  Hovering over the dropdown menu for custom characters will also show that info bit.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on February 16, 2016, 14:13:34
Another minor issue: when you're painting multiple tiles by holding down the CTRL key, the editor lets you select cells over the left and upper borders (the space that normally shows tiles from contiguous screens) if you place the mouse pointer in the exact pixel row/column of these borders. This causes the overflowing tile to be placed in the opposite side of the screen. It doesn't happen with the right and bottom borders, though.

Spoiler: Screenshot (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 17, 2016, 00:15:25
@Ultigonio: I better fix that. Even I refer to the help tips sometimes.

@VG: How didn't I notice that? Then again, I updated the selection box before adding preview panels. It appears it's off by a pixel, which makes me think it wasn't adjusted for the extra pixel between the preview panels and the canvas.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 17, 2016, 22:29:05
Get KS+ and Level Editor+ version 1.2.3 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

These updates fix all the bugs found since the last updates.
Spoiler: bugs (click to show/hide)
I adjusted the color of the purple disappearing block. The color it had until now didn't draw well on my screen. I didn't add a new block/button combination as suggested. I wasn't happy with any other colors I tried, and I really want to stop adding new things to this game. I really wanted to make the mouse wheel work on the images in the Bank/Object selection areas of the level editor, but since there was no easy solution I decided not to.

It seems this mod is very succesfull. It is well done and has a lot of useful features.
Think the most of people use it instead of original KS, not just to play KS+ levels, but also for the original ones.
On the Nifflas homepage, there is link to rrc2soft's website with DS homebrew version.
I think there could be a link to egomassive's website to download KS+. What do you think about it?
Sorry, I never responded to this. It sounds reasonable to me. I remember Nifflas saying something like he might even make a mod the official version if it was good enough, but I don't think Nifflas pays any attention to KS anymore. I can't remember him ever commenting on a 3rd party level he liked expect for in an interview from the very early days of KS. As far KS+ becoming the official version, I don't think that should happen. If you compare KS+ to KS on an old level full of waterfalls you'll see that object-flash in double-pass rendering is worse in KS+. Switching to single-pass eliminates flash, but screen transitions take variable amounts of time. So, although you may rarely notice it, original KS plays old levels better.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on February 18, 2016, 01:48:11
I like the new color for the disappearing blocks, but I think the "flash" that it does when the player first touches it should be a bit brighter - in its current state, it's a bit hard to see that there's been an effect.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on February 24, 2016, 09:42:03
Found a bug. I thought it might be in the original KS too, but it doesn't seem to be. When you win a level while there is still a visible shift effect, that effect will reappear in the same spot as soon as you select and play another (or the same) level. The ending of An Excerpt from Silence (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=6678.0) is good for reproducing this.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on February 24, 2016, 17:36:50
A few shift/trigger related issues I've run into:

* When I set a trigger to go off while a sign is being displayed (using the "Sign Trigger" property) and said trigger is used to delete the sign object, the text keeps being shown and doesn't disappear until you leave the room.

* When using a delayed shift that also triggers a cutscene, the shift is executed even if the player dies or CTRL+R is pressed while the timer is running. After the transition, the character is revived and can continue the game. This only happens when the shift is set to display a cutscene, though.

* If two shifts are triggered at the same time (both placed in the same position, in different layers) and only one of them has a delay, the delay is cancelled and both of the shifts are executed immediately.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on February 24, 2016, 17:42:14
I've noticed a few times, while working on my level, that the script for a screen will just completely vanish - everything else remains perfectly intact, but all the script completely disappears.  Initially, I thought that this may be because sometimes the level editor thinks its still in focus, and maybe I cut and pasted a screen when trying to cut and paste something else, but cut-and-paste doesn't remove a screen's script, so that can't be it.  I feel like this is me doing something dumb rather than a bug - any idea what it could be?  It's only occurred three, maybe four times while I've been working on Deep Freeze, and for a large-sized level that has script in all but approximately 10 screens, that's not especially detrimental.  It'd be great if I could squash that bug before it really hurts someone's level, though.

I think I had something else to report, but I've completely forgotten it.

* If two shifts are triggered at the same time (both placed in the same position, in different layers) and only one of them has a delay, the delay is cancelled and both of the shifts are executed immediately.
Weird.  This seems like it only occurs when they're in the same position.  Are these both on-touch shifts?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on February 24, 2016, 18:33:50
* If two shifts are triggered at the same time (both placed in the same position, in different layers) and only one of them has a delay, the delay is cancelled and both of the shifts are executed immediately.

Weird.  This seems like it only occurs when they're in the same position.  Are these both on-touch shifts?

Indeed, it only happens when they share the same position AND activation method. Here's an example I tried:

* Shift A: 2000ms delay, gives the player the Yellow Key. Placed on layer 5.
* Shift B: No delay, gives the player the Red Key. Placed on layer 4.

Normally, with immediate shifts, this would cause Shift A to be executed while Shift B is ignored. In this case, the 2000ms delay is ignored and the player gets the Yellow Key (but not the Red one) immediately.

This is probably not worth fixing at all, as it can be easily avoided by not putting multiple shifts in the same tile (which seems to be a bad idea in general, because of the semi-unpredictable results).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on February 25, 2016, 01:04:10
Ah yes, this situation reminds me of the other thing I wanted to report (which may already be known): you cannot activate two triggers at once - one will always take priority (based on layer, I believe).  This is not a huge deal, and prooobably isn't worth digging into the trigger code to fix, but it may be good to have it under a "known issues" readme of some sort so players can know to work around it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 25, 2016, 11:28:21
Wow, that's a lot of bug reports.
@Sergio: I've been noticing shift effects after cutscenes and wondering if it's always been like that. Nope, this needs fixing.

@Vegetal: When you delete a Sign object you delete the controller for the Text-bubble. Solution A, only give the player access to Sign-Area objects and delete those instead. Solution B, have another Sign object on screen. Example, put Sign C in a wall somewhere so that when Sign A is destroyed there's still an object that can control the Text-bubble.

@Vegetal: Shifts keep working after you die. Sounds like this is a different problem related to the same issue Sergio reported. This needs fixing.

@Vegetal and Ultigonio: You shouldn't be able to activate 2 Shifts at once --same for Triggers. It's not so much a feature as it is just something that happens because of the way the engine works. So, 2 Shifts messing with each other is a problem.

@Ultigonio: I've experienced similar occurrences while level editing. Usually I realize I had the wrong piece of the editor highlighted. If I leave the editor window open behind another window, I'll quite often find it on the expanded map screen, so there's no telling what other things might have happened when it should have been in an unfocused state. So, be careful, and if you discover that something bad is happening to your screen data let me know. As far as I know, there is no way that the level editor can remove a screen header from the World.ini unless you write it into the script pad and then hit Ctrl + Z.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on February 25, 2016, 12:22:49
@Sergio: I've been noticing shift effects after cutscenes and wondering if it's always been like that. Nope, this needs fixing.

I suspect it could be related to the soft reset changes (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=4175.msg70128#msg70128), in case you were looking for a lead... unless that's related only to F2/reset, and not how the game treats restarting overall.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 25, 2016, 17:03:43
Here's a beta of KS+ 1.2.4 (http://egomassive.com/ks+/KS+124beta.zip). This only addresses the game breaking bug discovered in the making of a community level to honor LPChip's 100th hidden star. I'm still scratching my head over the exact cause of the error, so I'm not confident this is a bullet proof solution. It merely deactivates the Shift logic handler on the first render pass. This may have the side effect of making animated Shift sequences behave slower but more playable. It'll give you an extra frame to move before the the next screen appears, which is similar to how they work in Original KS.

Anyway, please test it for me if you are familiar with the bug this fixes. It seems to have fixed it on my machine.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on February 25, 2016, 17:26:16
Wow, that was fast!

Tested the beta with both my demo level and the part of LPChip's level where the bug was discovered. I couldn't trigger the bug at all after 5 minutes of non-stop jumping, so this looks very promising. Great job! :D
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 25, 2016, 17:34:18
^That's reassuring. It is so mind blowing that the objects weren't being made, but COs were. I thought maybe the objects were being destroyed or moved off screen, but I didn't find evidence to back those theories up.

Time to fix these other issues.
Edit: OK, I believe I've fixed everything now, but the changes to the Shift logic might affect Ultigonio's forthcoming level. So, I've updated the beta link above. I'm going to hold off making an official update until Ultigonio has vetted it against his level.

Before when you activated a stack of Shifts, they were all activated. If any of them were not timed Shifts then the delay function was switched off. Then the information attached to the last one created would take precedence.

Now, if you activate a stack of Shifts, there can be multiple Shift events. There can only be one in any moment, so 3 instant Shifts will act as before. However a mix of timed and instant Shifts will allow multiple events.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on February 26, 2016, 05:28:04
It has been vetted!

Also, this isn't a bug report so much as it is a note of sorts: when you spoof a screen's coordinates (even if the screen already has the coordinates you're using to spoof), it won't appear on the map until the player has entered that screen, even if they have the map item.  After this, the room will appear on the map like normal.  I'm not certain if this was an intentional thing, but even if it's not, it should definitely stay, since it allows level designers to make secret or otherwise potentially optional screens visible to the player who checks every nook and cranny (and then they can still see where they've been, which can be really helpful!), without confusing players who are just following the path (or spoiling any super-duper extra secrets for said player).

I just figured that little tidbit may be valuable to some creators, since it's not immediately obvious.


Okay, now, this is a bug report: "Disable Screen Tint" never seems to uncheck - it can be turned off/on, but the check will always be highlighted after it first becomes highlighted (and I've noticed that it'll sometimes highlight when a totally different option is messed with, although I don't remember which option that was).  This is an entirely cosmetic bug, as far as I can tell.  Not a big deal, but kind of weird.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 26, 2016, 10:49:37
Get Knytt Stories Plus 1.2.4 (http://egomassive.com/ks/)

Note: If you downloaded the beta after I updated it for testing by Ultigonio, then you already have this version.

Spoiler: Fixes (click to show/hide)

@Ultigonio: Thanks for testing it. I'm not having any luck recreating the Tint-disable thing. The Map power will not reveal any room with spoofing coordinates. The "Show-On-Map" button was created to make an unvisited room appear on the map even if it contained spoof data, but I never thought of this. Having a room point to itself to keep it hidden from the Map radar, that's brilliant! :D Though you could certainly frustrate players if you used it badly.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on February 26, 2016, 14:05:36
  • You can activate 2 Shift objects at once if one of them is timed.

Neat! This will definitely come in handy for interactive cutscenes :D
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on February 27, 2016, 06:52:59
Actually, while playtesting Deep Freeze and learning about that bug, I actually realized something - this could have fixed a problem of mine, as well!

You see, there's a screen in Deep Freeze where the player will shift right onto another shift, and I observed in one playtester's session that sometimes, the second shift wouldn't fire - I'm not totally sure if what happened has to do with the bug, but if it did, this adjustment may have fixed that!  Neat!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Ink on March 09, 2016, 03:36:06
I may have found a bug. If there is a lock object (bank 15 object 27-36) on the very left of the screen the unlock sound will play if you activate the hologram with a custom character and leave the screen to the right. This doesn't happen with the default character. It also doesn't happen if the lock is on the right and you leave to the left. I tested this with all four colour locks and the first golden creature lock. I assume it's the same for the rest.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 10, 2016, 05:39:10
Thanks P.Ink, I'll take a look. :/
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Ink on March 10, 2016, 06:11:31
Did some more testing. For certain it only seems to happen if you have the means to unlock the lock (key/golden creatures). I had varied results when testing exact location of the lock. The lock doesn't have to be on the leftmost tile but does need to be near the left wall because it sound effect goes off when you reach an area close enough to unlock it. That is to say, the lock acts as if it's on the screen you transition to. Exactly how far away from the leftmost tile is uncertain. It also doesn't have to be on the same row as you. I was able to reproduce the sound by placing the lock several tiles up from where I was walking and jumping as soon as I entered the new screen.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 10, 2016, 22:14:31
@Purple Ink: :O I can't reproduce the error! I'm worried this is due to processing power. What are your OS and PC specs? KS+ has had many similar issues, and I've done a lot to compensate. Hopefully I'll find a weakness in the specific circumstance you've described. If I don't find an obvious suspect, I'll have to experiment and I'll need you to test the results for me.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on March 11, 2016, 00:53:35
When trying to create a CO overriding object 4:1, the OCO's animation speed is way, way slower than the wiggling of object 4:1's movement.  Is there something I can do about this or is it something happening with KS+?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Ink on March 11, 2016, 03:52:41
Did some more testing. The bug occurs regardless of which side the lock is on. It only happens if the character change shift is on the same screen. Seems to happen regardless of what custom character(s) you try it with.

@Purple Ink: :O I can't reproduce the error! I'm worried this is due to processing power. What are your OS and PC specs? KS+ has had many similar issues, and I've done a lot to compensate. Hopefully I'll find a weakness in the specific circumstance you've described. If I don't find an obvious suspect, I'll have to experiment and I'll need you to test the results for me.

OS: Win7 Pro 64bit
CPU: Intel i5 2500k @ 3.30GHz
RAM: 8GB dual-channel DDR3 @ 686MHz
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 12, 2016, 04:52:15
@Purple Ink: The Shift object was the key to reproducing it. Although that's blowing my mind, I should be able to track it down now. Thanks for doing so much probing. *gives hidden star*

@Ultigonio: It's set to animate at a speed of 100 instead of 350. I found a bigger issue though. I was testing an OCO against the original object and discovered the alignment was off. For some reason Nifflas didn't place the hotspots on this object the same way as most. A hotspot is a coordinate on the object that designates where the object's image should be in relation to the object's position. For most 24x24 pixel objects the hotspot is at x,y = 12,12 when facing right and 11,12 when facing left. I programmed OCO's to expect this. Object 4:1 has it's hotspot at 12,12 for both directions which screws up OCO placement when it looks left. I poked around and found some others with weird placements. I need to go through every object now and check the hotspots. And then I need to figure out if I can change them without screwing up their behaviors. *slowly goes bald*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 19, 2016, 08:07:20
Get KS+ 1.2.5 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

This fixes 2 bugs and makes one improvement.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 21, 2016, 10:16:52
Spotted an editor typo!

(http://i.imgur.com/h1l018N.png)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 22, 2016, 04:25:25
Spotted an editor typo!
*face palm* I'll put that in my to-do list. Since it's mostly aesthetic I won't make an update for it alone. Guess I'll have to find another reason to update the editor.

Progress Report: I've put a little work into the template collection recently --no new release yet. Mainly I've been working on The Tree of Knowledge when I'm Knytting. My website is in the middle of an overhaul, which I've mostly been avoiding since I'd rather working on TToK.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on April 09, 2016, 05:35:37
I'm noticing that sometimes, after using multiple other triggers to spawn objects, the last trigger I use doesn't always work.  I can use this trigger first, and it'll work, but if it's used after the other two, then no objects are spawned.  


Edit: actually, what seems to be causing issues is the Deleting behavior with the trigger.  Trying to spawn new objects after deleting one seems like it can sometimes cause issues - such as only one object in the series of "A/B/C/ spawn" objects actually spawning an object, or the "A/B/C spawn" objects not spawning anything at all. 

Edit 2: No, wait!  It's when I stack "A/B/C delete" objects on top of "A/B/C spawn" objects that the problem occurs!  Weird.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on April 09, 2016, 10:31:33
It's been a while since I struggled with the complicated behaviours of delete and spawn objects, but are your delete blocks deleting your spawn blocks?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on April 09, 2016, 18:41:30
Definitely not.  The spawn blocks that are stacked on top of the delete blocks work just fine - it's the other ones on the screen that are having issues.  Mind you, the spawn/delete blocks that are stacked are meant to act at the same time (basically, the idea is that, when something is deleted, it has a little "flash" to go with it).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on April 10, 2016, 06:41:59
@ Ultigonio: I managed to reproduce what you're describing. I never meant for you to delete a spawn object with a delete object. If you just want spawn effects then don't declare an object. I haven't dug into it yet, but I suspect that when you reduce the count of spawn objects on screen, then spawn objects with higher numbered identities stop getting checked. Something like:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on April 10, 2016, 08:25:02
Well, the issue is that I want a delete object to have the same "flash" that a spawn object has - if I don't declare an object, then the flash simply appears in the upper-left corner.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on April 11, 2016, 07:34:04
Get Knytt Stories Plus 1.2.6 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

This version fixes:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: jdl on April 14, 2016, 03:09:23
This mod is really awesome! :)

I have a suggestion for the map system though. Maybe you can include the option for an "area" map that hides sections of the entire map until you've collected the map item for a certain area. If you don't have an area's map yet, it can still show only the screens you've already visited, and also the screens that contain the map items (so that you have an idea of where to go).

EDIT: I spent some time in the Editor and found out a way to do this, though it does take a while to set up, so maybe having a different way to do it would be better. Here is my demonstration level. (http://knyttlevels.com/levels/Jdl%20-%20Area%20Map%20Demonstration.knytt.bin) This way uses Flags, Shifts, Warps, Signs, and Map Spoofing. Because there are only 10 Flags (well, 10 that I'm aware of anyway) that means you can only have up to 10 Areas. I'm still a bit rusty with the KS engine in general so there's probably a more simple way to do this. Also, this can be broken a little with the umbrella or double jump by collecting the map powerups without touching the ground square its standing on.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on April 15, 2016, 00:14:46
@jdl: Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. There are a lot of ways the map could be better for players. My priorities were to make it work with old levels and fit with the existing level design methodology. In retrospect, I wish I had created a separate map.bin to store designer controlled map information instead of putting instructions in the World.ini. The main problem is that map information can make the World.ini huge which causes long loading times. The main benefits would've been greater functionality and ease of use.

The demo level is interesting. This brings the map functionality a little closer to Super Metroid which I think would be ideal with its separate maps, map icons, indications for how rooms connect, and hidden areas even when you have a map. I couldn't see how to incorporate all these features without level designers being required to craft these maps, and I wanted it to work well by default.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on April 15, 2016, 18:10:41
Just noticed that custom umbrellas don't block projectiles that can be blocked by the regular umbrella, but as I report this, I can't help but think, did I already notice this?  Did I already report this?  Did you already explain why it can't be fixed?

Ah well, I'm reporting it again.  Sorry if it's a repeat report!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on April 16, 2016, 04:07:44
Just noticed that custom umbrellas don't block projectiles that can be blocked by the regular umbrella, but as I report this, I can't help but think, did I already notice this?  Did I already report this?  Did you already explain why it can't be fixed?

Ah well, I'm reporting it again.  Sorry if it's a repeat report!
Yup, it's known and documented behavior. If I put the real umbrella in there but made it invisible then it would work well when being replaced by another umbrella, but if you replace it with a jet pack then it would make things weird.
Quote from: KS+ Instructions
Warning! Custom umbrellas do not protect from projectiles.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on April 20, 2016, 00:46:16
I think I've got a couple of minor bugs.

I've noticed that when I compress my levels with the KS+ editor they seem to come out named levelname.knytt.knytt.bin instead of levelname.knytt.bin.

Also, unrelated, if you reset the game when you're in a level, the ambiance from the level plays over the title screen and continues to play until you load a game.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on April 20, 2016, 02:53:42
@ Talps: Those are both pretty weird. I'm not having any luck getting either one to happen. I did recently revert the reset behavior to the old hard reset behavior where it re-launches the application instead of just going back to the menu.  It's pretty confusing stuff since pieces from all over the program come into play, and I wasn't feeling confident about the change at all. The .knytt.knytt.bin thing is pretty weird. I don't think I ever changed that bit of the program, though I did put in dialogues to prompt you to add level info and make your folder match your level name. Did you let it rename your level folder when this took place?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: jdl on April 21, 2016, 02:59:02
I've found a few minor cosmetic bugs with the main menu (not sure if these have been reported).
The following buttons are not highlighted when you move the mouse over them:
- Install Level
- Get More Levels
- Credits
- About MMF
- Tilesets (1) and Back buttons in the credits menu
- Visit Website and Back buttons in the About MMF menu
- Start New Game and Load Game in the world save slot selection menu
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on April 21, 2016, 10:29:56
@ jdl: Wow, I wonder how long it's been like that! I imagine it has probably been like this since the beginning and no one ever noticed. Thanks for the report.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on May 03, 2016, 22:53:18
Question about the "Flag All" function - does every flag, A, B, and C have to have some sort of condition met in order to trigger it, or do you only need to meet the conditions of the flags that are in use for that screen?  In other words, if I only have a flag A and B on a given screen, will meeting both those conditions be enough to trigger the "Flag All"?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on May 04, 2016, 00:48:48
@ Ultigonio: Yes, Flag All activates when all of the flags that are checked are true. In fact, the example in the Features Demonstration level only checks two Flags. You could even use it on a single Flag, but that would have no advantage over using that one Flag normally.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on May 10, 2016, 21:56:05
It seems this mod is very succesfull. It is well done and has a lot of useful features.
Think the most of people use it instead of original KS, not just to play KS+ levels, but also for the original ones.
On the Nifflas homepage, there is link to rrc2soft's website with DS homebrew version.
I think there could be a link to egomassive's website to download KS+. What do you think about it?
Would definitely be good. My mod is more suited to run standard KS levels though, because it loads screens faster. Except for one thing: I never experienced the save points and springs bug described in http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=6585.0 and didn't fix it in KS Ex.

Yeah, single-pass rendering is not perfect. Full-screen CO's are a weak spot. I never had any problems with Exploring the Golden Lands, but I'm using gigantic fog animations in a level I'm making, and it flashes rarely. I'm convinced that these flashes depend on the power/load of your processor. This means user experiences could vary widely.
I think that's because you're on Win 8 or higher. It renders KS with lower FPS, because it forces V-Sync onto everything. On XP or on Win 7 with Aero turned off there should be a clear 1 frame flash every time a screen is entered.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on May 11, 2016, 09:35:26
It's good to hear from you GrayFace. Win 8 was lousy at rendering games. Especially some semi-translucent effects. It wasn't just this game that suffered. Upgrading to Win 10 fixed most of the problems I was having. Here's the latest source if you or anyone else is interested.

KS+ 1.2.6 source file (http://egomassive.com/ks+/KS+Source.zip) 2.9 MB,  Requires Standard Edition MMF2 and several extensions to read.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on May 15, 2016, 10:36:39
While experimenting with custom fonts, I noticed that KS+ Instructions seems to be missing the &#160; from the start of the fifth row of characters. Browsers really seem to want to render this as &#32; so I've decided to provide a .txt file (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4353469/KS%20Characters.txt) that I think features the correct character slotted in with the others.

Also, as of version 1.2.6, two copies of KS+ Instructions appear, one outside of the main folder along with "oco letters.txt". A mistake?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on May 15, 2016, 15:35:48
Also, as of version 1.2.6, two copies of KS+ Instructions appear, one outside of the main folder along with "oco letters.txt". A mistake?
Yes, that's a mistake. "oco letters" refers to where I store values inside the program for my own personal reference.

Nice catch on the fonts instructions. I use Notepad++ for text editing. While I was trying to figure out what happened, it mysteriously happened to the file you provided as well. The character vanished. I corrected my copy of the instructions text, and it was correct when I closed and reopened it, but I guess I'll have to keep an eye on it from now on. :sigh: I may just replace it with a normal space since it makes no difference to the text blitter in the program. For this and the question I saw you field about Level Editor failures yesterday I'm giving you a star.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on May 15, 2016, 17:31:44
I may just replace it with a normal space since it makes no difference to the text blitter in the program. For this and the question I saw you field about Level Editor failures yesterday I'm giving you a star.

It seems to stay intact in regular Notepad, though I'm definitely not encouraging you to use that instead.

There actually are a few differences. Firstly, &#160 can be used to pad out space at the very start of a sign, whereas &#32; gets ignored. Secondly, that character can be repurposed for a custom symbol or other elaborate font replacements, such as the secondary character set you might have seen in The Empty Planet. I've been working on a tool to ease such substitutions (http://lisaglitchexcursions.neocities.org/sergiopy.html) with a friend, so the possibilities are very fresh in my mind. I won't mind if you do decide to just swap it for a regular space for the sake of convenience, as even from that webpage that character copies as a regular space no matter what I do. At least our flaws would match.

And thanks, I have extra appreciation for that star since it pushes me very close to a number you probably don't want me reaching yet. Not that I'm bothered about timeliness, and I hope nobody else is either!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on May 16, 2016, 03:24:21
There actually are a few differences. Firstly, &#160 can be used to pad out space at the very start of a sign, whereas &#32; gets ignored. Secondly, that character can be repurposed for a custom symbol or other elaborate font replacements, such as the secondary character set you might have seen in The Empty Planet.
To clarify, I meant I'd change the character in the instructions. The game engine would not change the way it treats them. However, it may make things confusing for people who know the difference between the two.

Your project sounds like something I could use myself. Although I've avoided any Empty Planet spoilers, I believe I'm doing something similar in my own level. I considered incorporating an interface in my editor, but ultimately decided it would not benefit enough people to justify the effort. I would certainly like to host a download link on my website since it'll be relevant to KS+ designers.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on May 16, 2016, 08:36:37
I don't think we'll be making a downloadable version of the tool (or even changing it all that much). It currently works as well as I need it to, though maybe its  interface is a little inscrutable. Here's a GIF I recorded of myself using it (http://i.imgur.com/XQKCebq.gif). Bearing in mind that it probably won't be 'polished', if you'd still like to link to it or even host it, that sounds great to me. It's just a lone html file and might stay in that state, but I'll ponder improvements I can make for a little longer. Suggestions are welcome as well.

Edit: Oh, and here (http://i.imgur.com/TUNRKZq.png) is plural's custom font from The Empty Planet which I hope she is OK with me linking here. Viewing it probably doesn't constitute spoilers, but asking you to locate it yourself in the custom objects folder definitely would.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on May 17, 2016, 16:41:47
Neat but not at all what I was expecting. I can see how that would benefit you with a font like Plural's. I was imagining something like Windows' Character Map tool. You could mouse click the digits you want directly from your custom font image.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on June 05, 2016, 13:02:55
I am experiencing a pretty disastrous bug.

It started a few days ago when I tried to create a new KS level using the editor. I was at this point using the most-recent-but-one version of  KS+. The level name I created had a colon in it, along the lines of 'Shooby: sha Dooby da Wooby', which is the only odd circumstance I can think of. I was creating a KS+ level.

Anyway, the editor generated a totally blank level; it didn't contain the default new-level first screen and then I realised that the world.ini was completely blank. Further investigation revealed that the editor hadn't even generated a world folder for the level. A later check revealed that the level isn't appearing in the KS+ player level directory.

At this point I reset the editor and tried creating the level afresh with the same title. I got the following error message:

Quote
DirPacker Error: Directory Exists

Well ok, I thought, that possibly makes sense at this stage. Having lost motivation for starting a new level by now, I gave up for a few days.

Since then I've come back to it and had the problem persist. I tried recreating the level with the same title and got the same error message. Then I decided to give up on that title and tried to create a level with a different title; I got the same error message. I went so far as to randomly bash keys to try and generate a level title I couldn't possibly have entered or installed before but got the same error message again.

Since then I have switched to the most up-to-date version KS+ and re-downloaded the most recent level editor. I've tried creating a vanilla KS level instead of a KS+ level... bug still persists. I wanted to try creating the level with the vanilla editor but my virus checker has now picked up on the Trojan in there and kindly deleted both my copy and my backup without asking my permission. I could probably (possibly) bypass the problem by C'n'Ping another level's world folder and clearing its contents for a fresh start... I'm out of ideas for a fix, short of reinstalling vanilla KS (I haven't tried that since the 'Dragon Myth' ball is now back in my court and a few hours' work from release. Once it's done I'll come back to banging my head off of this problem).


I don't know if this is related to the two minor bugs I reported a while ago that you couldn't reproduce, though downloading the most recent version seems to have fixed the ambience-consistence-after-reset problem I was having.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on June 05, 2016, 14:38:29
The level name I created had a colon in it, along the lines of 'Shooby: sha Dooby da Wooby', which is the only odd circumstance I can think of.

Colon is a verboten character in Windows filenames of any kind, so I suspect this is the root of the issue. Sounds like KS+ could be missing a check for this, though!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: jdl on June 05, 2016, 16:28:26
I believe you can fix the error message you're getting by deleting the folder in the Worlds folder called "Nifflas - Template". I think it gets created when something goes wrong with making a new level.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Talps on June 05, 2016, 18:28:37
Jdl, you're a genius! Thanks!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on June 10, 2016, 22:02:13
I'm trying to be a bit cheeky, using object 15:6 (the block that appears as you get closer to it) for an OCO, but it doesn't seem to work.  Is there anything I can do about that?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on June 12, 2016, 08:35:38
I don't know how well it will suit your purposes, but if 15:6 turns out to be impossible, the next best thing would probably be 14:20. Admittedly, it would pop in more than fading in gradually, and you might have to add an invisible wall tile, but maybe you could get the result you wanted.

On another note: attached below is a version of the KS+ Info.png file that should behave identically, but is 3KB smaller. Almost pointless, yes, but I already made it so I might as well post it.

Edit: While I'm throwing suggestions out there, I recently had the idea that KS+ might be able to restore these music tracks originally cut from Knytt Stories (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=6773.0). There are a few reasons this might not be desirable... it bloats the download size by 6MB, and I don't know if level makers would even be interested in an expanded default soundtrack. Still, I figured I should at least mention it in this thread instead of rejecting it outright myself.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on June 12, 2016, 08:43:24
I don't know how well it will suit your purposes, but if 15:6 turns out to be impossible, the next best thing would probably be 14:20. Admittedly, it would pop in more than fading in gradually, and you might have to add an invisible wall tile, but maybe you could get the result you wanted.

Way ahead of you - with a bit of subtle animation, I've gotten a 14:20 OCO to look nice and smooth.  5 frames of animation ain't a lot, but it's enough.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 21, 2016, 17:44:00
Huh, for some reason I've missed all posts in this thread since June. :huh: First of all, thanks to Jdl for solving Talps' problem. *Gives a well deserved star* I'll add this issue to my to-do list, as it will inevitably rear it's ugly head for another unsuspecting level designer.

@Sergio: I'll use the new info image. Why did you even make it? As for the music, I'll need to consider it. I'm wondering how much benefit they could provide this late in the game. A few knytt.bins will be smaller than they would have been. We'll have a slightly larger variety of default tunes for designers who use default music but not default KS. I'd actually really like to add them, but I can't come up with a reason that justifies the KS+ download increase.

@Ultigonio: There is no OCO support for the object you wanted because that object has no animation. It changes its transparency level which is something COs can't do. Technically you can animate a change in transparency, but I can't tell it to match its transparency to that of another object. For the same reason I haven't supported anything in the ghost category. I often think it would be useful even if the OCOs didn't flicker. However, it would be weird if something that wasn't ghostly didn't appear unless you had the ability to see ghosts.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on August 22, 2016, 15:03:12
@Sergio: I'll use the new info image. Why did you even make it? As for the music, I'll need to consider it. I'm wondering how much benefit they could provide this late in the game. A few knytt.bins will be smaller than they would have been. We'll have a slightly larger variety of default tunes for designers who use default music but not default KS. I'd actually really like to add them, but I can't come up with a reason that justifies the KS+ download increase.

PNG compression is one of my nerdier hobbies... I could probably have pushed it even further. I agree that there's basically no worthy justification for including the extra music.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 22, 2016, 17:45:21
Get Knytt Stories Plus 1.2.7 (http://egomassive.com/ks)
Get Level Editor Plus 1.2.7 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

KS+ Updates:
KSLE+ Updates:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: EhPlus on September 27, 2016, 14:28:53
Might be a bit late, but I'm always glad to see Knytt Stories still receiving love. :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on September 28, 2016, 12:24:46
Thanks to this bump, I noticed egomassive needs to update the "Last update" text next to the downloads on the KS+ webpage!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on September 28, 2016, 17:40:07
Thanks for the heads up Sergio. Those dates let visitors to my website know I still maintain KS+. *fixed it*

Oh, Thank you for the 200th star EhPlus! It's taken me since June to receive the last two I needed. There's no doubt the KS community is in it's Autumn, but that just makes KS a classic. I think KS+ was a success at adding a little more life to KS over the last few years, and I'm pleased with that. I still have a couple levels I'm working on, and I certainly wont be going anywhere until at least The Tree of Knowledge is complete.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on October 05, 2016, 21:29:37
I just tried to make an OCO of Bank3Obj12 using the template from the Templates.zip thing, and for some reason, whenever it does the jumping animation, it stops at the frame just before the one it's supposed to stop at.

(http://i.imgur.com/UtqOCDD.gif)
(The one on the left is an OCO, the one on the right is an actual Bank3Obj12.)

What do?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 05, 2016, 22:41:29
@StraightFlame: It took me a minute to figure out what was wrong, and I was sure I had fixed this once before.  <_< The problem is in the template image. It's only 167 pixels wide instead of 168. How the engine manages to read frames 6 and 11 I will never know, but frame 20 doesn't exist as far as it is concerned.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on October 17, 2016, 08:57:20
First of all, i forgot to thank you for that thing with the Bank3Obj12 template, so... thanks.

I've got a different OCO-related problem now: I tried to replace the weird nonsensical helicopter-thingy on Bank2Obj24 with a weird nonsensical jetpack-thingy, like this:

(http://i.imgur.com/OiypWrF.png)

...but it looks like this in-game:

(http://i.imgur.com/nylVPWo.png)
(It looks like this on every frame, and only the black part is affected. Also, i did the same for Bank2Obj15, and it works properly.)

Is there any reason for why this is a thing? And is there any way to fix it?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on October 17, 2016, 10:34:55
I believe MMF treats pure black as transparent sometimes. If you use the eyedropper to select the same shade of black used elsewhere in the image (which is probably 1% red) and replace all the pure black, it should render properly.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on October 17, 2016, 17:19:08
Well, my Bank2Obj15 OCO works with pure black, so obviously that means your solution is wrong, and therefore i refuse to acknowledge the fact that you helped me with this issue i probably wouldn't have been able to solve otherwise!

(Seriously though, why does pure black work for 2-15 but not for 2-24?)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 18, 2016, 22:33:32
@ StraightFlame: I can't think of a good reason pure black would be invisible on one but not the other. In reality an OCO is always the same kind of object, a Custom Object. Associating it with a game object tells it where to be, which frames to show, and what speed to play those frames. The association shouldn't have any effect on how the CO interprets black. It's possible that the OCO on 2:15 works differently because it never changes the animation pattern. From creation it loops the first 4 frames forever. Maybe something strange happens to the 2:24 OCO when it updates to the attack pattern. Whatever the cause is, you should never use pure black in a CO.

@Sergio: Thanks for fielding the original question. :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: plural on October 19, 2016, 18:29:55
Because I use pure black constantly in custom objects, I can tell you that the problem is with that and to fix it just make the custom object one pixel wider on the left because the black is colliding with the edge. ego's right and it's not something you should probably ever do if you don't want to deal with problems like this, but my rabbit hole is too deep.

Most of the time any actual transparency in the custom object that includes pure black will force the pure black portion not to be transparent but sometimes it doesn't. I tested it and this image* works, I just added one more pixel of transparency to the left side of the image. It doesn't seem to offset or squish the image in any way even when the object would take up the whole KS screen but has pure black, it will be transparent if it's completely filled, add one transparent pixel to it and it renders as it should without altering anything else. I'm not sure why this one is different but I think it's because the pure black fully collides with the edge of the image and bank=/object= custom object parameters tend to be finicky sometimes.

*(http://i.imgur.com/mOlI45i.png)

Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on December 29, 2016, 23:30:45
So, uh... there are a few things i noticed while making OCOs.

Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on December 30, 2016, 05:55:02

  • My Bank3Obj42 and Bank3Obj43 OCOs only do the ear-wiggle animation once before switching to something different, but the real ones do it three times.

I think at this point it would be best to leave them as they are. I wouldn't want to change the behavior on anyone who might have already used the cats as a base for a custom object.

As for the girl, I think I knew that she looked different when I programmed her OCO. It would've taken a lot of special code to make her OCO work differently than the others and it's a pretty trivial difference.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on January 01, 2017, 02:10:14
I just made OCOs for Bank4Obj10 and Bank4Obj11, and the shooting animation doesn't play if they're "facing" downwards (i.e. they just walked downwards before shooting). Instead, it just does the downward walking animation. (When they're going upwards, the shooting animation works like it should.)

(https://i.sli.mg/NrAAvt.gif)

I made them exactly like KS+ Instructions.txt says to, but here's one of them anyways, just in case i still managed to do something wrong somehow.
(https://i.sli.mg/DUsEac.png)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 02, 2017, 00:17:39
Get Knytt Stories Plus 1.2.8 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

New year, new version. This fixes the downward-travelling firing error StraightFlame described in the post above. It affected OCO's for all four of the strangers, as they are named in the source, as well as the two wall climbing ninjas. Since the actual objects only have upward-travelling animations for the firing sequence I hadn't programed for downward-travelling firing sequences on the OCO's. *star for StraightFlame*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on February 03, 2017, 18:34:12
I just noticed that Invisible Object #18 (Bank 16) is solid to regular flying creatures, but flying golden creatures can pass through it. This happens even when the creature is the golden version of a regular creature that is affected by said invisible block (e.g: Bank2 Obj17). Is this the intended behavior?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 04, 2017, 15:43:51
Wow! How did I miss that?

Get Knytt Stories Plus 1.2.9 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

Change log: Flying golden creatures now obey the flyer-blocker where they should. *star to VG*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on February 05, 2017, 20:21:46
Thanks for the fix! This will come in handy with my current project :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 21, 2017, 23:42:33
Get Level Editor Plus 1.2.9 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

It was mentioned recently that designers are getting the original no-climb object mixed up with the improved no-climb object which is a problem if they're designing an original KS level. To prevent that this version displays a KS+ graphic if you have a KS+ object selected.

For years KS+ has been tweaking the map color for the darkest gradients, but the number displayed in the level editor has remained un-tweaked. I've known about it the whole time, but I never remembered to fix it when updating the editor until now.

Do those warning messages about blank tiles get on your nerves? They get on mine. Now, all such messages clear themselves away after 2 seconds.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: SC on February 22, 2017, 04:29:06
THANK YOU for this update, Tim. The KS+ graphic is a huge help to me since I'm still relatively new to level making and I do want to try making KS & KS+-compatible levels at some point (with the help of Gibber's guide, of course). :D
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on February 22, 2017, 19:35:27
On behalf of all the lazy tileset authors in the world, I can't thank you enough for making the "fully transparent tiles" warning dismissable, ego :D
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 22, 2017, 20:11:16
On behalf of all the lazy tileset authors in the world, I can't thank you enough for making the "fully transparent tiles" warning dismissable, ego :D
You're all welcome. The warnings are helpful, but most they're a nuisance. Now we all can just ignore them. I would have made the expiration time even shorter, but I wanted to give people a chance to actually read the warnings if they're new to KS level design.

Immediately after releasing the latest version of the editor I stumbled across a bunch of errors in the help hints. :sigh: I must have been slightly catatonic by the time I wrote hints for bank 14. Objects 6, 12, 13, and 14 are the mistakes I've found so far if you want to see how bad I am at proof reading my own work. I'll let these errors stand for now, and make version 1.3 a double release for game and editor when/if I get there.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on May 07, 2017, 21:23:25
I just made an OCO for Bank10Obj4, and the animation... doesn't really animation as well as i hoped it would.

(http://i.imgur.com/kjK8CqG.gif)

I basically just took the file from Knytt Stories DS and put some colors on it. KS+ Instructions.txt doesn't actually say how you're supposed to make it work (or maybe it does and i just didn't see it), but it doesn't say "Not implemented" either, so i assume this is supposed to be possible.
(http://i.imgur.com/Z2tdKkT.png)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on May 08, 2017, 01:03:19
There's definitely a mistake here. I've set it up to use the same animation sequence when travelling up and down, but it restarts the sequence when it changes directions. I'll update after I've checked all the bouncers for this error.

There's not much I can do about it lagging behind the default object. Your sprite sheet is correct. I don't know why I left out the instructions.


Edit
Download Knytt Stories Plus 1.3.0 and Level Editor Plus 1.3.0 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

Only objects 10:4 and 10:5 had the problem StraightFlame discovered. Other wise there are only minor updates.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: cman on June 08, 2017, 14:17:09
Hello,

Being the map improvements my favorite feature of KS+, I wonder: is there a way to move the map around and not seeing just the area of the map that is around your current screen? could this be implemented in the future? I think it might be big help in very large levels and it will be good feature not just for levels ready for KS+ but for old levels using the classic engine too!

What do you think?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on June 09, 2017, 04:47:59
KS+ is basically complete. I'll keep fixing mistakes if they're found, but I don't plan to do any more development.

The map system could benefit from being more elaborate, but what was of utmost importance to me was simplicity of use for designers and players, and an aesthetic that felt like it could have been made by Nifflas himself. With those as my priorities there are good reasons for the map to be the way it is. One, the larger it gets the longer it takes to open. As it is, you probably didn't notice that it takes time to open up, and that is how I wanted it to be. It should feel instantaneous. Increasing the map size a little increases the processing time a lot. Two, the tiles that make up the map are already pretty small. Vertically, I can't see how I could double the number of tiles and still clearly show the difference between a black space, an empty space, and a space you haven't been to yet. Three, I suppose I could make it so you could scroll around the map. Here we run into processing issues again. It is beyond my skill and imagination as a programmer to create a system that would feel sleek without requiring special tools for designers to make their map and requiring designers to take active steps to make a map.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: cman on June 09, 2017, 15:24:07
Thanks for your answer egomassive!

Fair enough. I am not aware at all of the development challenges of any modifications on it and yes, I agree that is much more important to keep it responsive, right now you press the key and the map is already there!. Just to make it clear what I had on mind was just as it is (same size, same looking, same tile size) and being able to scroll around. It just happened that I tried to actually scroll it around the first time I played a level with the map forced on, so I decided to message here, to see if this has been discussed.

Again thanks for all the details. And anyways, it is amazing as it is already!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: SilasMann on June 10, 2017, 06:54:28
If you're still fixing bugs, I get this happening semi-frequently  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HItGRwpxTis)(maybe once an hour). All of the buttons work (I think), and it fixes itself if I close out of KS+ editor and reopen. It occurs at least when I minimize the program and then open it back up-- maybe when I edit a tileset and then Ctrl+F2 it doesn't like that? I am using Win10.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on June 11, 2017, 04:52:29
@SilasMann:  :S That's interesting. It looks to me like the graphics are getting mixed up. I'm not having any success recreating this on my end, so I want you to do an experiment for me. Place the contents of this zip file (http://egomassive.com/ks+/KS+DLL.zip) in your Knytt Stories directory or wherever you keep the level editor. My theory is that the external dependencies, application extensions, on your machine have become incompatible with the program. So, if you drop the ones from my computer (win10 as well) next to the level editor they that might solve it.

Side Note: Looking into this, I had the pleasant surprise of discovering that Nifflas ran into a similar issue back in 2008. His question on another support forum was the first search result, and the answer he got answered my question. I guess I'm still following his lead.

@SilasMann: You can reload a tileset just by changing it and then changing it back. If you want the preview bars and the zoomed view to refresh then you have to get them to show the wrong tileset before switching back. That's how I've always done it, but ctrl+F2 sounds more convenient as long as I remember to save my changes first.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: SilasMann on June 11, 2017, 06:07:11
Ctrl+S,F2 is probably my most used button combo in the editor.

So, opening the file gets me this (http://i.imgur.com/undefined.png), while trying to extract gets me this (http://imgur.com/undefined). Opening in 7zip I get this (http://imgur.com/undefined), and then extracting that gives me this (http://imgur.com/undefined). Doesn't matter where the zip is located. What does it want from me??

EDIT: Can't be bothered to edit background info out while currently using a touchpad. But do notice I have 2 separate egomassive.com bookmarks lol  ;)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on June 11, 2017, 09:22:57
So, opening the file gets me this (http://i.imgur.com/dErSGlx.png), while trying to extract gets me this (http://i.imgur.com/n6qh4ZV.png). Opening in 7zip I get this (http://i.imgur.com/SqKkm4O.png), and then extracting that gives me this (http://i.imgur.com/y15GSPc.png). Doesn't matter where the zip is located. What does it want from me??
It didn't upload properly. The file size is supposed to be 871 KB. It should work now.


Edit: Been digging through what is being asked of those dll's. Aside from a very remote possibility of a memory handling flaw, they don't look to be the culprits. Unfortunately, the reason I immediately looked in their direction is because this glitch looks like it comes from a compatibility issue between the core of the engine (which I have no access to) and your machine/OS. However, I've looked through the Level Editor's source, and I've discovered something. When you "reload" the map editor portion of the program closes and re-opens, but the script editor only reloads the information it's displaying. If you hide and then show the script editor it will fully close and re-open.

The point is, try toggling the visibility of the script panel. I'm betting that will set it straight.

Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: SilasMann on June 13, 2017, 01:57:33
Interesting stuff! I haven't had the glitch happen to me since, but I did have something else happen randomly: all of the buttons on the script panel disappeared. I closed and re-opened the panel, which fixed it, but did a thing to the editor map. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQoGIlgOtao) Of course it's a benign bug, and if it's a problem specific to me, I guess it's no problem to restart the editor occasionally.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on June 13, 2017, 11:58:06
Of course it's a benign bug, and if it's a problem specific to me, I guess it's no problem to restart the editor occasionally.
This may be a sign of things to come. Right now it's just you that I know of, but if you have a new machine then this problem may affect everyone in the future. Also, the fact that graphics which should be destroyed are instead moving leads me to think you have a major memory leak, maybe we all do. I might be able to fix this by destroying the problem elements before closing parts of the program. I'll let you know.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Ink on July 01, 2017, 09:38:10
Well, I've tried everything and can't seem to get it to work. I might be out of luck but I'll ask anyway. Is it possible to use two different sign fonts in one game? I want to have characters talking and distinguish them by two different font colours.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on July 03, 2017, 03:59:54
@ Purple Ink: Sergio came up with a solution for this for the level Juni's Nightmare. Make a font image where the uncommon letters and symbols at the bottom are replaced with your alternative color alphabet. Then use the widget at this link (https://lisaglitchexcursions.neocities.org/sergiopy.html) to easily convert to the alternate alphabet.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Ink on July 08, 2017, 00:49:22
Wow that's actually a really elegant solution! Thanks for the tip. :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on July 28, 2017, 14:03:18
I've tried making a simple OCO for bouncer #12 (the tiny red/brown guy) for a small project I'm currently working on, but I think I've run into an animation issue very similar than the one StraightFlame reported recently. I'm using the KSDS template for said object as a base, which seems to meet the requirements mentioned in the KS+ instructions. However, it seems both the "small jump" animation (frames 15-18)  and the "blinking" animation (frames 0-2) end at the wrong frame (frame 2 -- eyes closed), even when using KS+ 1.3.0:

(http://vegetal.eb-creativos.com/ksstuff/other/bouncer_12_blink.gif)

I've also attached the PNG strip that causes the problem, just in case there's something else I'm missing.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on July 28, 2017, 21:50:36
When i made my Bank10Obj12 OCO, i just swapped the blinking animation frames around so frame 2 is the one where its eyes are open.

I'm not 100% sure, but i think that's actually how it's supposed to work.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on July 28, 2017, 22:13:07
Hmmm... I didn't try swapping the frames because I thought that would mess up the "big jump" animation, but it seems that's not the case. Maybe it'd be a better idea to just make a note of this in the instructions TXT file then, instead of altering the current behavior (so existing OCOs don't have to be modified).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on July 30, 2017, 03:56:15
@VG: I compared your sprite sheet to the KS source, and everything is correct except for the order of the first three frames. The correct sequence for blinking is partially-closed, closed, open. I think this is true for every blinking object. If you look at the existing KS+ templates this is how they are laid out. The majority of animations in the game hold on the last frame of each sequence. Apparently KSDS doesn't always sequence the same way, so testing and comparing to existing KS+ templates would be wise.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on July 30, 2017, 14:58:41
Interesting. It's quite strange that only the "blinking" frames are swapped around in KSDS... I wonder what's the reason behind this. In any case, it seems to be working fine after using the workaround suggested by StraightFlame, so I'll just keep this in mind for any other OCO I may decide to make. Thanks guys!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on August 06, 2017, 15:08:59
"Use Alternate Death" bugs:
1) After winning (or probably pressing F2) and starting/loading a level again, standard death animation is used despite the menu item staying checked.
2) The state of the menu item isn't saved after exiting KS+, so each time it has to be turned on manually.
Saving its state after clicking the menu item would probably solve both problems.

I now also experience that bug, in KS Ex and original KS save points re-trigger rapidly while Down arrow is pressed. I'd like to carry the fix over to KS Ex. Must be a lot of objects affected. (MMF2 never stops surprising with how horrible it is)

P.S. It's been such a long time since I last played KS.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 06, 2017, 23:44:12
@GrayFace: Been a long time since your gray face has appeared around here. I haven't looked yet, but I think I made the alt-death save to the save slot of the level. Staying checked when it's turned itself off certainly needs to be looked into. I imagine fixing that will reduce the need to turn it on so often.

I'm glad to hear the rapid saving wasn't something I did. All I did to fix it was delay how often a save can be initiated. I believe I also changed some of the graphics due to a Win8 incompatibility with certain methods of working with alpha channels which doesn't occur with Win10. Here's the source. (http://egomassive.com/ks+/KS+Source130.zip)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on August 07, 2017, 18:37:54
I'm glad to hear the rapid saving wasn't something I did. All I did to fix it was delay how often a save can be initiated. I believe I also changed some of the graphics due to a Win8 incompatibility with certain methods of working with alpha channels which doesn't occur with Win10. Here's the source. (http://egomassive.com/ks+/KS+Source130.zip)
Great, it's just the "Fade Out=Fade" that doesn't work, so you've replaced that with frames of it fading out. Some unimportant "Childs" still have it set to Fade BTW. I'll handle them.
Strange thing is that I didn't experience it on Win 7 at first, but now I do.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on August 10, 2017, 14:52:41
I was experimenting with the crumbling block (Bank 15 Obj 38) and noticed something weird when I placed a Delete trigger on top of it (not on the same position, but one tile above). If the trigger is activated, the object right above the crumbling block is removed and the block remains on screen, as expected. However, once this happens, the block below the Delete object starts behaving like a regular gray block and won't fall apart when the player steps on it. This happens even if the Overlay feature is not enabled.

Does anyone know of a workaround for this? I tried making an OCO with an X offset of 24, so I can place the object on a different position, but this doesn't displace the collision mask.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 11, 2017, 03:12:13
I was experimenting with the crumbling block (Bank 15 Obj 38) and noticed something weird when I placed a Delete trigger on top of it (not on the same position, but one tile above).

I hadn't thought of that possibility. There's an invisible detector that's being deleted. For gray blocks it protrudes from the top. For purple blocks it outlines them. I might be able to prevent it's interaction with delete objects.

Generally though, be careful how you use delete objects. They can do crazy things. For example, the sign background can get stuck on screen if you delete all the sign objects while a sign is being displayed. I consider that a level design mistake (like a wall-swim) rather than a bug.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on August 11, 2017, 18:44:27
An error I've noticed while playing Deep Freeze: if you activate a shift with sound, the sound doesn't stop if you die. Tested with "Use alternate death".
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 11, 2017, 20:55:18
@VG: I looked into the crumbling-block/delete-object conflict and It will have to stay. The detectors are an object created during the render cycles. These objects have a tag which is used to position them. This is the same tag the delete object uses to identify what it should destroy. So, if I change the tag to prevent deletion it won't be positioned properly. If I create the detector after the render cycle, I could change the tag and position it properly, but this would mess up what happens when you transition to a new screen and find yourself in a crumbling block --it should be destroyed before you even see it.

@GrayFace: I'm sure that does take away from the effect of the alternate-death. The only sound you should hear is the static. I'll add it to my list of things to look into.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on August 11, 2017, 21:24:44
It'd have been neat if this issue could be fixed, but based on what you explained, I agree it's probably not worth the trouble and the risk of breaking other stuff for such an uncommon use case. I was just trying to make a visible trigger on top of a crumbling block disappear after activation, but it's not that big of a deal if it stays visible. Thanks for looking into this anyway :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on August 12, 2017, 00:36:01
@GrayFace: I'm sure that does take away from the effect of the alternate-death. The only sound you should hear is the static. I'll add it to my list of things to look into.
I don't know actually. In original KS sounds aren't stopped at death either I think. It only becomes a problem in Deep Freeze, because when that long teleportation sound doesn't stop after death it feels like a bug. In levels that don't use long sounds it's probably better to keep sounds playing even in alt. death. Maybe it should be a setting in World.ini whether to stop sounds after death or not.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on August 13, 2017, 00:32:02
One feature Deep Freeze begs for: if you trigger a timed shift while it's executing, currently it plays sound again (does nothing else). It would be good to have an option to make subsequent triggers completely ignored while it's executing. Maybe just a level-wide switch, because most levels would need it one way or the other.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 15, 2017, 05:42:37
Quote from: GrayFace
@GrayFace: I'm sure that does take away from the effect of the alternate-death. The only sound you should hear is the static. I'll add it to my list of things to look into.
I don't know actually. In original KS sounds aren't stopped at death either I think. It only becomes a problem in Deep Freeze, because when that long teleportation sound doesn't stop after death it feels like a bug. In levels that don't use long sounds it's probably better to keep sounds playing even in alt. death. Maybe it should be a setting in World.ini whether to stop sounds after death or not.

One feature Deep Freeze begs for: if you trigger a timed shift while it's executing, currently it plays sound again (does nothing else). It would be good to have an option to make subsequent triggers completely ignored while it's executing. Maybe just a level-wide switch, because most levels would need it one way or the other.

I've just remembered that Ultigonio wanted a way to prevent use of alternate-death with that level. This is probably the reason. Since the alt-death is imitating Knytt rather than Knytt Stories I guess I ought to go see what happens in that game. (Does any object even make a noise on that game?)

It could be a good idea to prevent the sound from playing again specifically if it's tied to a timed shift. I have to be careful that I don't break any existing levels though. Having designers opt in would guarantee that no existing levels would be broken, but I feel like it would be too obscure of an instruction for most people to understand its purpose. It would never be used like slow-fade ambiance.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on August 15, 2017, 06:38:05
One feature Deep Freeze begs for: if you trigger a timed shift while it's executing, currently it plays sound again (does nothing else). It would be good to have an option to make subsequent triggers completely ignored while it's executing. Maybe just a level-wide switch, because most levels would need it one way or the other.

I'm assuming you're bringing these things up because you're just now digging into Deep Freeze, so I'll stick this detail behind a spoiler if that's the case and you haven't finished the level yet:
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)



I've just remembered that Ultigonio wanted a way to prevent use of alternate-death with that level. This is probably the reason. Since the alt-death is imitating Knytt rather than Knytt Stories I guess I ought to go see what happens in that game. (Does any object even make a noise on that game?)
You know, that does sound vaguely familiar.  If it was possible to kill trigger sounds on death for both death effects, that would be great, as well - the countdown sounds playing after death was a minor complaint I got from playtesters who weren't familiar with KS's limitations.  That said, I believe this was a functionality we spoke about way back when, and I think it was decided that there wasn't much that could be done about it.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on August 15, 2017, 13:15:44
It could be a good idea to prevent the sound from playing again specifically if it's tied to a timed shift. I have to be careful that I don't break any existing levels though. Having designers opt in would guarantee that no existing levels would be broken, but I feel like it would be too obscure of an instruction for most people to understand its purpose. It would never be used like slow-fade ambiance.
Well, it could be auto-added to World.ini of new levels.

I'm assuming you're bringing these things up because you're just now digging into Deep Freeze, so I'll stick this detail behind a spoiler if that's the case and you haven't finished the level yet:
No, I've finished it, and wrote a response in the thread :)

The difficulty with this one is that the the game still needs to be able to activate triggers so to play sounds from other shifts, since Deep Freeze starts incorporating the use of multiple, concurrent timed shifts.  Unless you could call the ID of the specific instance of that specific sound played from that specific trigger, I'm not really sure how possible this would be.
I don't mean whether or not the sound is playing (it's actually impossible to find out because for that all sound emitting code in KS would have to be changed and in MMF2 it has to be done manually), but the timeout of shift itself (e.g. ShiftTime(A)), which isn't a problem.

You know, that does sound vaguely familiar.  If it was possible to kill trigger sounds on death for both death effects, that would be great, as well - the countdown sounds playing after death was a minor complaint I got from playtesters who weren't familiar with KS's limitations.  That said, I believe this was a functionality we spoke about way back when, and I think it was decided that there wasn't much that could be done about it.
Nothing can be done to stop shift sounds specifically, but a call to "Stop all sounds" function could be good enough.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on August 15, 2017, 19:53:52
@GrayFace: Default for new levels, that idea deserves a star. *gives star*
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on September 01, 2017, 14:12:24
I misunderstood how Deep Freeze works. I thought delayed shifts produce sound when they are triggered, but they produce it when they end their job and Ultigonio uses triggers to produce init sound. It would be good to have a separate activation sound setting. I've added it as ShiftStartSound(A) to KS Ex.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on September 01, 2017, 20:59:22
We've just been fantasizing over at the new Niff-discord-chat https://discord.gg/UgY9JSD about what if me and you merge KS+ and KS Ex. How realistic do you think the idea is?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on September 02, 2017, 11:28:57
I don't want to speak in egomassive's place, but I don't think there are any more major additions planned for KS+? The ethos of KS+ as I understand it is a slightly enhanced version of the original Knytt Stories that allows for a few more possibilities, while KS Ex allows for many more features and generally has fewer limitations. I'd personally prefer these two different versions to continue co-existing rather than become one, but if anything, maybe it would make more sense to merge the features of KS+ into KS Ex.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on September 02, 2017, 17:30:19
Is the Redo feature in level editor working for anyone? In my case, it always seems to be disabled (greyed out and unselectable in the menu) even right after I've used the Undo command, so I'm never able to cancel any undoing.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: canteven on September 02, 2017, 18:08:57
Redo's not doing anything for me, either.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on September 04, 2017, 20:36:55
I've also noticed that the 1-way and 2-way platforms don't seem to work as expected when they're layered over certain solid tiles. If said solid tile/object is 18 pixels high or less, the player will be able to walk over the platform and drop down when pressing Down+Jump, as usual. However, if the solid tile has any non-transparent pixels on the top 6 rows, the character will always fall through the platform when they step on it (see attached pic), as if the 1-way/2-way object wasn't placed there. Not sure if this is a bug or a way to prevent unwanted wallswim issues, though.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on September 05, 2017, 03:18:47
Bug: Ctrl+M doesn't always work. Here's an example:
Level: GBoots - Red Flower (http://knyttlevels.com/levels/GBoots%20-%20Red%20Flower.knytt.bin)
Savegame (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0w9twj6wssu7thd/KS%20Plus%20Music%20Bug.rar?dl=0)

I've also noticed that the 1-way and 2-way platforms
What are 2-way platforms?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on September 05, 2017, 04:34:34
What are 2-way platforms?

Those are platforms that allow the player to drop down from them by pressing Down+Jump (Bank16 Obj30 in KS+). Deep Freeze uses them in some areas.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on September 05, 2017, 09:36:42
Bug: Ctrl+M doesn't always work.

I think this might not really be a bug. That level has a bunch of music in the Ambiance folder, and Ctrl+M will only mute what's in the Music folder, and it's up to the level designer to try and make that work.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on September 05, 2017, 22:37:56
I've just added an almost transparent (transparency 121/128) white overlay to KS Plus, because my monitor doesn't display shades of near-black with settings I use for everyday browsing. It would be great to have it as an option officially for people like me.

I think this might not really be a bug. That level has a bunch of music in the Ambiance folder, and Ctrl+M will only mute what's in the Music folder, and it's up to the level designer to try and make that work.
Ugh, that's a strange decision to not mute the ambience, it's often used for looping music.

Those are platforms that allow the player to drop down from them by pressing Down+Jump (Bank16 Obj30 in KS+). Deep Freeze uses them in some areas.
Thanks, I then figured what they are, but wasn't able to find them in the bank, because I read them as "1wav" and "2wav". KS Plus definitely needs a list of objects and features with brief descriptions. Just like KS Ex :)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Ultigonio on September 06, 2017, 09:03:02
Thanks, I then figured what they are, but wasn't able to find them in the bank, because I read them as "1wav" and "2wav". KS Plus definitely needs a list of objects and features with brief descriptions. Just like KS Ex :)
While I don't believe KS+ has a list of objects laid out neatly, each object comes with a description that you can view in the editor by hovering over the object and pressing F1 (in the selection part of the UI, not the screen editor; the screen editor has its own description that shows useful key+click combinations when you hover over it and press F1).
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: GrayFace on September 06, 2017, 18:05:25
Wow, that's a huge hidden feature! That's what I meant by brief descriptions, although some objects are also hard to find because they have numbers 255 and so on. I wonder why the descriptions aren't displayed when you select the object or hover mouse over it, pressing F1 is an unnecessary burden.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: StraightFlame on September 06, 2017, 19:40:13
hidden
(https://i.imgur.com/G8xaMqi.png)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Pineapple on September 29, 2017, 00:30:16
Does anyone know if there's a way to navigate the KS+ main menu / level selection screen using only the keyboard?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on October 02, 2017, 19:56:46
It's not a major issue and it might not have an easy solution, but I noticed that recolored OCOs based on the "LEAF" objects (Bank 7 / Nature FX) tend to produce unexpected results when two or more different types are used in the same screen. For example, if you define two separate Bank7Obj10 OCOs with different colors and place both of them in the same screen, the leaves will be constantly switching colors until they touch the ground and disappear (may be useful for making a confetti effect :P ). Other combinations (e.g. a Bank7Obj6 OCO and a Bank7Obj10 one) and may result in one of the OCOs working correctly and the other one spawning leaves of unexpected colors every now and then.

@Purple Pineapple: As far as I know, there aren't any keyboard shortcuts for the KS menus, although I can't say for certain. I tried every key combination I could think of and wasn't able to navigate those screens without the mouse. The most I could do was to de-activate the search field after using it by pressing TAB, which doesn't have any practical use.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: canteven on October 09, 2017, 17:08:12
Here's an issue with the editor itself: the KS-compatibility mode (format=2) should remind you that shift positions with decimals in them aren't supported in vanilla KS.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 23, 2017, 06:16:33
Wow, I've been absent longer than I realized. Let's see here...

Q: Merge KS+ with KS Ex?
A: I'm not against it, but I don't see it happening. Since the two mods were developed at the same time they already share many key features. However the design philosophies of the 2 projects are very different. KS+ is all about ease of use. KS Ex is all about unlimited possibilities. (It's still easy to use, just not as easy.)

Q: Why do I have to press F1 to get a description in the editor?
A: Constantly checking the mouse position might set your computer on fire. That was the original implementation, but the processor load it created was insane.

Q: Hi, my name is Vegetal Gibber and I'm using objects in new and exciting ways?
A: Only one color change per nature object per screen. The nature objects change colors by doing something akin to a pallet-swap. You actually change the colors defined for that object type and you change every instance of it. In fact, the default objects swap them back. You can probably get some of them to turn into boxes by first making them color zero.
A: Jump through objects can fail when combined with collision tiles. It's out of my hands --internal functionality of the software KS was written on. It is recommended that transitions between the two are flat and square. Everything else should be thoroughly tested. I personally get foiled by rounded corners on a regular basis when level designing.

Q: Why not mute ambiance?
A: I didn't feel like enough levels were made with overly loud music in the ambiance channels to warrant the added complexity. For the combination of screen enlarging methods to work, the game actually plays in a child window, while the menu is on the parent window. I did some crazy and overly complex stuff to get the windows to communicate with each other. Then consider that all music plays in 1 channel, while ambiance has 4 to facilitate cross-fades.

Q: Shouldn't the editor prevent designers from using non-integer shift values when making original KS levels?
A: I didn't know that worked in KS+. I'm just going to advise you to never do that. However, if it helps you do something neat then don't let me stop you.

Q: Keyboard shortcuts on the main menu?
A: Nope.

Q: Can we have a built-in gamma adjustment.
A: I have actually considered this before. There have been massive debates about too-dark KS levels. And when I adjust my computer screen to match the settings of my phone/television the majority of professional games I play appear too dark. Conclusion, we live in a world where there is no one true gamma setting. So, maybe I should do this.

Q: What's with redo?
A: I didn't make the map editor undo function, and I never really figured out how it works. The redo you see in the menu only works in the script pad portion of the level editor.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on October 24, 2017, 08:54:06
Get Knytt Stories Plus 1.3.1 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

All I added was the gamma adjuster GrayFace suggested. Once I had it working I could see that it will be really useful for the dark screen crowd. So, I've gone ahead and made a release just for this change. I used the intentionally too dark screens in the Features Demonstration level as reference, and I had no idea that those screen were completely unplayable with adjusted-for-printing monitor settings. Oops.

To use it simply select "Increase Brightness" in the options menu during gameplay or cutscenes. Whether or not it should be on is saved in levels' save files. You can fine tune the level of brightness for your monitor by opening up the Settings.ini in your Knytt Stories Plus directory and changing the "GammaIncrease" value. I've chosen 16 as the default. This is out of 255, so GrayFace's suggested setting would translate to 14.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on October 29, 2017, 20:26:16
I gave the new gamma adjusting feature a try. It's pretty useful for very dark levels such as Harlow and the Tarandus Queen and my old level Dark Alleys, especially when you have to play in windowed mode or when the light level in your room is not optimal. I found 10 to be the best overall value for me, increasing visibility enough for the darkest areas to become visible without reducing the picture contrast too much, although this depends heavily on the level I'm playing.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on December 24, 2017, 03:45:07
Editor bug report: If coordinates are capitalised in World.ini (e.g. [X999Y999]) the game will still treat them normally, but the script editor won't jump to that portion of World.ini when navigating to that room, which gives the mistaken impression that it's not in World.ini.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on December 26, 2017, 20:20:17
Get Level Editor Plus 1.3.2 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

Updated the script pad search function so that capitalization is accepted. *gives star to Sergio*

I forgot that I had been fixing some erroneous help messages in a version never released to the public, 1.3.1. I'm not sure where I left things off with that. So, there may be some corrections or there may be additional errors. :huh:
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: canteven on December 28, 2017, 19:24:30
I found an editor bug: if multiple transparent tiles are identical and stacked on each other (in different layers), the editor will only display one of them while the game will overlay them as normal.

With layers 0 and 1 used for the transparent tiles, here's how the editor shows them:
(https://i.imgur.com/h67Gv4Y.png)
And here is how the game shows them:
(https://i.imgur.com/EwI3A5D.png)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on December 28, 2017, 20:32:07
That one is a known issue from the original level editor, but it seems that fixing this could have caused lag issues (according to these posts (https://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=4175.msg69895#msg69895)). You can use the preview functionality (hold down Spacebar) as a workaround, though. The preview window renders stacked transparent tiles correctly.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 02, 2018, 05:27:48
Rumor has it (https://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=6936.0) that Nifflas has retired from the internet. Since KS+ requires the previous installation of KS, and the website where you got KS is down I'm thinking I should host it on my website. I should also alter the links within KS+ that are dead-links now. My big question is, should I also alter the dead-links within original KS? And, where should they take you? And, what else should I host?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on January 19, 2018, 16:47:22
I've been having some issues with the "intro music" feature. When I leave a screen while the intro song is still playing and then enter it again, the music just stops abruptly as soon as the intro track ends and the song that is supposed to follow is never played. Additionally, it seems that exiting the area and re-entering it again after this happens doesn't cause the BGM to start playing again. Is there any workaround for this (other than adding shifts with the "Stop music" flag on)?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 20, 2018, 16:25:59
Get Knytt Stories Plus 1.3.2 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

There are 3 changes to the program this time.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: canteven on January 20, 2018, 16:55:06
Hopefully this doesn't come across as brash... is there any reason timed triggers aren't a thing yet? E.g. set a trigger to wait X milliseconds before spawning its object and activating spawn/delete objects. I'm trying to make a Deep Freeze-ish thing where blocks disappear 3 seconds after you activate a trigger spot, and I don't want to use shifts because that might mess with animated objects on the screen.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on January 20, 2018, 18:16:33
is there any reason timed triggers aren't a thing yet?

I guess I never thought there was a need. I created timed Shifts because I wanted to simplify and improve something people were doing with the original KS. Adding timing to Triggers would be a big undertaking, because so many things are interconnected. It's not the kind of change I want to make at this point. I intend only to perform maintenance (although I did just make a change to Flags.)

Deep Freeze is a level that pushes the boundaries of what's possible with KS+. It sounds like you're trying to go a step further. I'm sure this isn't the solution you're looking for, but KS Extended can do almost anything.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on January 20, 2018, 18:35:24
First, I fixed the problem VG just found with intro music. I had a couple lines I believe were meant to guard against accidentally trying to load a song when it shouldn't. But, they were clearly the cause of this issue.

Working like a charm now. Thanks, ego!
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Toudou1620 on January 21, 2018, 01:39:01
I'm so happy this thing exists... I used to make maps a long time ago and I'm back at it again! Happy building everyone!  :D
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: canteven on February 24, 2018, 17:54:15
It would be useful if there was some way to invert the direction an artifact warp takes you in. E.g. FlagWarpY(A)=Artifact1 brings you down 2 screens if you have 2 red artifacts, FlagWarpY(A)=-Artifact1 brings you up 2 screens if you have 2 red artifacts. Mainly suggesting this because I'm working on a large collab level that relies on KS+ and there's not a whole lot of space to go around when it comes to flag warping. It just makes sense, I guess.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on February 25, 2018, 21:56:09
@canteven: Using both coordinates is the key. Here's the example from the Features Demonstration level
Code: [Select]
Flag(A)=True
FlagWarpX(A)=-20
FlagWarpY(A)=Artifact1
Use one direction to get you away from the map and the other direction to perform the Artifact function. You'll need to have a room in the original location to hold this code, even thought the player will never see it.

Additional tip: When Making big maps, you can move 100 screens in the editor using Ctrl+Shift+ArrowKey. If you place duplicates 100 screens away there's little chance you'll run into them as you expand your map.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 01, 2018, 10:47:07
Some issues I've run into lately:

1) If I play a level, reset the game, and then try to reinstall/update that same level from a knytt.bin file I get a "Could not pack file" error. If MMF has a simple way to clear file I/O (typing that made me consider deleting this entire paragraph) then this might be worth fixing, otherwise it's not hard to just close and reopen the game. Oh, and I just checked and original KS does this too, so it's probably not related to differences in how KS+ resets. Anyway I doubt many people will encounter this error, so please don't spend much time even thinking about it.

2) I tried making a Bank 9 Object 4 override CO using a modified spritesheet ripped from KSDS (attached), but it just doesn't seem to animate properly. Am I doing something wrong, or is KS+ doing something wrong?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on March 01, 2018, 11:32:24
About the second issue: ego told me some time ago that not every spritesheet from KSDS could be used as-is for OCOs, because there are some cases where the animation sequences don't match. According to the KS+ instructions text file, it seems that particular object requires 3 more frames of animation (the flower closing). It might work fine if you simply duplicate the last three frames and reverse their order.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 01, 2018, 14:02:03
Thanks VG! I completely forgot that information was in the KS+ instructions, and the animation is working fine now.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 03, 2018, 23:31:28
I think this has been mentioned before too, but the KS+ editor doesn't block the creation of a level with forbidden characters (like : ) in the name, despite this breaking everything.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 05, 2018, 01:40:21
@Sergio C.: I couldn't manage to recreate the "Could not pack file" error. It's weird since you weren't trying to pack the file. I agree that the circumstances of this error are too special to worry about.

As for forbidden characters in folder names, I could easily fix this by throwing up an error message instead of moving to the editor. That could alleviate moments of confusion for the level designer. Alone, it's not important enough for an update in my opinion. However, this relates to a more serious issue, which is acceptable folder names that are deemed unacceptable by the directory packer. Everything appears fine until you share the level and players get a corrupted file error upon installation. The "." is the only character I'm aware of at this time. Does anyone know of others? I'll do some testing.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on March 13, 2018, 18:32:18
It seems that, when a minimized KS+ Level editor window is re-opened, the screen preview panel (the one that appears when you hold down Space) suddenly stops working after making any single edit to the current screen, even if said function was working perfectly right after re-opening the editor window (when I hold down Space before making any changes). I can only get the preview panel to appear again after switching focus to another application, then back to the editor. It's just a minor issue, since this seems to happen only when the user minimizes the editor window (as far as I know), but it'd be nice if this could be fixed in the next update.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 15, 2018, 07:46:15
@Vegetal G.: It seems there's a problem with the focus control. You can fix it by moving the focus to the script editor and back. Minimizing and focus handling are things the underlying software platform fails at horribly. In all honesty, this error has probably arisen from the dozens of fail-safes I've added to prevent such problems.

I will be releasing updates soon. In KS+ I've discovered screen-brightening bugs out after cutscenes. In KSLE+ I'd like to work on some of the recently found bugs as well as improve the performance of the preview window. When you're editing the tilesets not only do you have to toggle them in the editor to refresh them, but you must also toggle them through the preview window. It's a bit of a pain.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 20, 2018, 15:18:42
Get Knytt Stories Plus 1.3.3 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

Get Level Editor Plus 1.3.3 (http://egomassive.com/ks)
You can still cause problems by having weird characters in the world or author names and choosing to change the folder name during compression. So uh, don't. :S
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: sergiocornaga on March 25, 2018, 04:12:44
I just discovered that if a music file is set to loop in World.ini, it will still only play once when used in a cutscene. Seems like that shouldn't be the case?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: egomassive on March 25, 2018, 17:09:15
I just discovered that if a music file is set to loop in World.ini, it will still only play once when used in a cutscene. Seems like that shouldn't be the case?
Sounds reasonable...

Get Knytt Stories Plus 1.3.4 (http://egomassive.com/ks)

Added looping and intro music functionality to cutscenes. If a music track has an intro in the game, then it will have one in a cutscene. If a music track loops in the game, then it will loop in a cutscene.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: canteven on May 31, 2018, 19:02:14
Visual bug: if Juni places down a hologram, then her ability to place/remove holograms (Power7) is removed via shift while she still has the hologram out, Juni will look transparent even after she leaves the screen. This is only fixed once she dies or obtains the hologram ability again.
(https://i.imgur.com/OecFxg8.gif)
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Fubaka on June 01, 2018, 22:33:12
I'm having an issue in one of the levels I am working on (and I have already updated to the latest versions of both KS+ and the editor) where I try to set a third shift on a screen to autosave the game when passed over. When I select this option, the editor just closes down. This is fairly annoying and it is preventing me from setting this shift. What do you think the issue might be?
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Fubaka on June 03, 2018, 02:37:01
Okay, now I'm having another issue. I'm trying to edit the text of a sign and it's closing down on me. I really am at a loss as to what to do now.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on June 03, 2018, 14:30:49
I tried to reproduce this problem on my side just out of curiosity, but it doesn't seem to happen with any of the levels I tried. It might be the case that the editor is having trouble parsing the contents of the World.ini file of that particular level for some reason (unless you're experiencing the same problem with other maps as well). I'd suggest inspecting the World.ini file thoroughly, looking for unclosed tags, weird characters, missing line breaks or any other similar stuff.

Also, does this happen with a KS+ level (Format=4) or a vanilla KS one? I'm guessing it's the former, but if that's not the case, you could try the original level editor and see if you can reproduce the issue there.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Pineapple on June 07, 2018, 10:11:01
It seems like the ShiftCharacter fails to work if the corresponding shift is triggered at the same time as another shift, regardless of the other shift's properties. Demonstration level is attached.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on June 07, 2018, 14:54:07
I asked a similar question some time ago, and it seems shifts that are placed on the same tile and are triggered simultaneously (same collision mask) generally produce unexpected results when multiple flags and other properties are toggled (I think this applies to vanilla KS as well, though). The solution is to make one of the shifts timed, even if it's just a very small delay. E.g: ShiftTime(A)=1. Note that this works correctly with two shifts, but not with three, even if different delay values are set for each timed shift.

If all else fails, try making duplicates of that screen (each one with up to two flag-toggling shifts, and a third one just for the screen transition) and keep shifting Juni through those duplicate rooms until all required properties are set.

Edit: I just tried the demo level you attached. The character-changing shift works as expected if Shift A is timed and both Shift A and B are set to trigger in the same way (both manually or both on touch). However, it seems the workaround is not valid if one of the shifts is triggered on touch and the other one isn't.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: Purple Pineapple on June 07, 2018, 23:52:29
Thanks VG! That's good to know. Can't say I've ever come across that in vanilla KS. Makes me wonder if it's exploitable in some way...
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: SC on November 11, 2018, 19:50:57
Okay, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread before, but: is there a way to make the level select / file select screen navigatable with the left and right arrow keys (as well as making the current page of levels selectable with the 1-8 keys), just like in KS Ex? And also, there's this weird tick where sometimes pressing the 'next page' button takes a tiny bit longer than it usually should. I know it happens in vanilla KS, but it doesn't happen in KS Ex.

And also showing more than one level for the 'Last Played' and 'Last Installed' categories would be a big help, to be honest.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: egomassive's Knytt Stories Plus mod
Post by: FluroM on December 09, 2018, 20:07:07
Can you provide a source code?