Nifflas' Support Forum

Level Editing Support => Knytt Stories Level Editing Support => Topic started by: Miss Paula on February 26, 2009, 17:59:46

Title: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Miss Paula on February 26, 2009, 17:59:46
originally written by Nifflas, subject to slight changes concerning "where to post your level" relatively soon
About Level Difficulties

The Problem:

It's very easy to underestimate how hard your levels are. In too many games, levels are posted under Normal, when in fact the skilled player has trouble beating some parts. When it comes to all level designing, it's very important that you understand that your level is harder than you think, probably a lot. Even if you do not realize it, it might take 50 attempts to perform your timed jumps, and your logical puzzles may not have any logic to somebody else or require an IQ of 175 or more.

The Rules:

Compare your levels with the official Knytt Stories levels. If you're thinking about setting your level's difficulty setting to Easy or Normal, make sure it isn't as hard as An Underwater Adventure.

Level Categories

The Rules:

Before you categorize your level, read carefully how the categories are meant to be used. For example, the description of Environmental is No puzzles, no monsters, no challenge, so you can not assign the Environmental category to your level just because it features beautiful landscapes, if it does contain a lot of enemies. Friendly creatures are okey though.

You can only assign two categories to your level. If your level fits into more, pick the two which you think define your level best.

Existing level categories:

TutorialA tutorial that teaches you to play Knytt Stories and contains tips and tricks.
ChallengeA Challenge level - make sure your skills are sharp!
PuzzleIn a Puzzle level, you need some serious thinking.
MazeA Maze Level - Can you find where you're going?
EnvironmentalAn environmental level - No puzzles, no monsters, no challenge, just beautiful landscape (Of course it's okey to use any amount of friendly creatures!).
PlaygroundA Playground doesn't have an ending or a goal - a good place to practice.
MiscA level that doesn't fit into any of the other categories.

What you need to do for your level before you submit it

Giving credits
If you use tilesets or music in your level that you have not made (including that what came with the game) you'll have to give credits for it. Where you do it, is not really important, as long as you give credits. Can it be in the beginning after you pressed new game, in the intro sequence or in the end sequence, thats up to you, but make sure that you credit the people.

Create a .knytt.bin file
You can do this using the level editor's compress function. It will contain everything your world folder has, including custom music, and custom tilesets.

The actual Level Submission

Where to post your level:

Playable Levels are supposed to be submitted to The Knytt Stories Level Archive (http://knyttlevels.com/), which is going to be rewritten and much extended in its functionality soon.

Mark all unfinished levels and levels that you want the community to test as Beta Level.

When you think your level is finished, and you have fixed all potential problems, it's time to categorize it as either Easy/Normal/Hard/Very Hard/Lunatic. If your level has more than one difficulty (that is, if you can change the difficulty level from within the level), mark it as having Selectable Difficulty.
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Razzorman on February 27, 2009, 22:24:07
So, where are we supposed to post our levels? Here, some other board, or is there going to be some kind of discussion feature on Knyttlevels.com?
It isn't very clear...
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: BloxMaster on February 27, 2009, 22:25:15
Knytt Levels.com is going to get an overhaul, and that is where all the level/tileset/COs will be, apparently.
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Miss Paula on February 27, 2009, 22:27:02
Yes, that's it. It's not done yet, but LPChip hopes to finish it within the next month. X)
So unfortunately, you can't submit levels just now, but we didn't see a reason to keep the whole forum locked just because you'll have to wait for the Level Archive. :)
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Razzorman on February 27, 2009, 23:00:48
A delete function would be really good to have on the archive, so that you can delete old buggy betas or fix things in your levels without having to rename it.
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Miss Paula on February 27, 2009, 23:06:08
The archive is currently BEING WORKED on. It will have pretty useful features that it doesn't have yet. You just need to be a bit patient for that.
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Shawnachu on February 27, 2009, 23:14:49
Perhaps instead of a rating function, there could be a "favorite" function? With ratings, people can hit the 1 star on every level and bring down the ratings, possibly even throwing some new levels off the list of potential playthroughs, even if the level is perfectly fine. However, you could judge the popularity of a level by looking at how many times it has been favorited.
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: CPW on February 27, 2009, 23:17:54
To prevent new levels from being voted off, there could be a "new levels" section.
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Razzorman on February 27, 2009, 23:20:24
Quote from: shawnachu on February 27, 2009, 23:14:49
Perhaps instead of a rating function, there could be a "favorite" function? With ratings, people can hit the 1 star on every level and bring down the ratings, possibly even throwing some new levels off the list of potential playthroughs, even if the level is perfectly fine. However, you could judge the popularity of a level by looking at how many times it has been favorited.
I know its being worked on, it was just a suggestion.
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: PONTO on February 27, 2009, 23:24:14
By the way, if you are really desperate to show us a new level of yours, which can't wait for the new site, knyttlevels.com is still up, it just doesn't have the neat new features. ;)
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Mathexpert on February 28, 2009, 04:53:54
We could also put accounts up, so you could delete your own beta levels or levels of your own that you think are bad.  :)
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: LPChip on February 28, 2009, 11:16:06
A short message from me explaining a little bit of the big overhaul of knyttlevels.com.

It will have a login system that will allow you to login using your forum account details. That means, in order to register there, you need an account here.

The new system will be SQL driven, meaning that I can easilly add filters/searches. I will add a voting system designed in such way that it'll work.

Bad levels will be removed from the site because that way we can regain filesize.

Additionally, you can comment on levels.

The same thing for levels will also be added fir tilesets and custom objects.

And last but not least, as Paula already mentioned, we didn't found it necessary enough to keep the forum closed just because you cannot submit your levels right now.

If you have feedback, please keep it with you until I've finished the knyttlevels.com page. There's a big chance I will implement the feature you have in mind. Alot is lacking from the current one, so a new one really is necessary.
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: SiamJai on February 28, 2009, 14:14:12
This could be interesting. I agree that the decision to move Knytt Stories levels, discussions and other related content to an external site seems strange at first. But let's see how it works out. Until then, here is some food for thought:

You know what would benefit the most from this move? Night Game! Think about it for a second. A commercial title draws less participation than a free game, everything else being equal. A Wii-exclusive commercial title will generate even less participation from the fans here. So what else do they have? What will fill the gap that Night Game's exclusivity left behind? Geoffrey the Fly? No, Knytt Stories, the game that everyone can contribute to.

I think there will be a surge of KS activity from fans who can't participate in the new Wii-exclusive title. Coincidentally just before NG's release, all 3rd-party KS content is relocated to another site, which will ensure that KS activity won't overshadow the less popular new arrival. Whether intentional or not, it comes in quite handy. :)
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: PONTO on February 28, 2009, 14:31:14
Yeah, at least we'll have that. :P
Well spotted, SiamJai. :P
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: SiamJai on February 28, 2009, 17:52:32
Thanks, Ponto. :)
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Mathexpert on February 28, 2009, 22:40:39
I have a question... why did we even do this? What was the point?...Not that I have anything against  it, just curious.
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: LPChip on February 28, 2009, 22:56:34
Quote from: Mathexpert on February 28, 2009, 22:40:39
I have a question... why did we even do this? What was the point?...Not that I have anything against  it, just curious.

Can you clarify this? What do you mean by "why did we even do this?" Who did do what exactly?
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Emeraldfire7 on March 01, 2009, 04:05:32
I think mathe expert meant why did we (as in you/other admins) decide to move the 3rd party levels "board" to an external site

(which was what I was going to ask XD)
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Pumpkinbot on March 01, 2009, 07:17:26
 :/ I don't really think this move was neccesary. I mean, what was wrong with the old way we did things? And will this be for betas, too?
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: LPChip on March 01, 2009, 12:29:38
Basically, the forum limits us to add features like search/filters/ratings/show levels by user x/etc. By moving it externally, we can finally add this functionality.
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Razzorman on March 01, 2009, 12:32:12
As long as there is a link on this page it should be just like before, except with greater functionality.
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: LPChip on March 01, 2009, 12:35:43
Ofcource!

In fact, if you have a user here, you can log into the KnyttLevels.com too, and if you want to register at KnyttLevels.com, It'll redirect to the registration page here.

And a link will be made in the forums so it will appear to be a forum, but it'll redirect to KnyttLevels.com
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Feline Monstrosity on March 01, 2009, 23:42:07
Quote from: shawnachu on February 27, 2009, 23:14:49
Perhaps instead of a rating function, there could be a "favorite" function? With ratings, people can hit the 1 star on every level and bring down the ratings, possibly even throwing some new levels off the list of potential playthroughs, even if the level is perfectly fine. However, you could judge the popularity of a level by looking at how many times it has been favorited.

I agree with this post, except that I think it should be a kudos system. If you like a level you give it one kudos. If you REALLY like a level, you give it two. If you don't like a level you leave a comment saying why and don't kudos it. That way there is no way a level can be "sniped".
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: LPChip on March 02, 2009, 17:03:25
I'm going to build a new voting system that isn't like anything you've seen yet. (perhaps there are similaritites to existing ones, but I have a pretty good idea on how this'll be done.)

But I want to ask you: please save the suggestions till it has been made public, because your suggestion most likelly already is on my to-do list.
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Feline Monstrosity on March 03, 2009, 18:24:02
Quote from: LPChip on March 02, 2009, 17:03:25
I'm going to build a new voting system that isn't like anything you've seen yet. (perhaps there are similaritites to existing ones, but I have a pretty good idea on how this'll be done.)

Can't wait! C)
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Medic-Ted on March 03, 2009, 18:39:00
I know I'm a bit late, but do you think you can somehow integrate the :hiddenstars into the rating system - like if the level has been favourited a lot, then it gets a :hiddenstar.
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: LightningEagle on March 04, 2009, 14:14:31
Quote from: Medic-Ted on March 03, 2009, 18:39:00
I know I'm a bit late, but do you think you can somehow integrate the :hiddenstars into the rating system - like if the level has been favourited a lot, then it gets a :hiddenstar.

Quote from: LPChip on March 02, 2009, 17:03:25
But I want to ask you: please save the suggestions till it has been made public, because your suggestion most likelly already is on my to-do list.

'nough said   :O
Title: KSLA - suggestion
Post by: Comhon on March 06, 2009, 09:50:18
Will be on new vesion of KS Archive uploading bar?
(It will be very useful, because when you uploading a level 50 MB and you don't know when it will be done...)
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: J on March 06, 2009, 10:06:08
It should do, been trying to get an ajax uploader thingy to work for a bit now, it works apart from checking the level validity right. ;)
It's a different matter how it'll be integrateable to LPC's reworked system. :)
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: LPChip on March 06, 2009, 14:17:41
Quote from: J on March 06, 2009, 10:06:08
It should do, been trying to get an ajax uploader thingy to work for a bit now, it works apart from checking the level validity right. ;)
It's a different matter how it'll be integrateable to LPC's reworked system. :)

J, I will script it in such way that you won't have much trouble implementing it. But since its javascript mostly, Editing the template files will probably be enough. X)
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: LPChip on April 28, 2009, 20:46:16
I have a small update here. :)

Today, I successfully tested the login part with J and I guess I can say that its like 99% finished. (the login part that is).

That basically means, if you know the url, you could login to eh.. nothing (you just can login) with your forum username and password, and I can actually use that to do stuff like: linking a level to you etc.

I think this actually was one of the hardest parts of the system, so things will be easier from now on. :)
Title: Re: About KS Level Submissions
Post by: Dataflashsabot on April 28, 2009, 23:34:44
\o/