Nifflas' Support Forum

Temporary => Knytt Stories Level Releases => Topic started by: Talps on June 15, 2010, 18:53:08

Title: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on June 15, 2010, 18:53:08

At last, it is finished! This is my second KS level and it's based on the Greek myth of Orpheus and Eurydice, which is about a man whose wife dies a short while after their wedding, so he travels to the land of the dead to plead for her return. As I say, this is based on that, not a faithful retelling (my main character's a girl, for one thing).

I've tried to use Knytt Stories to tell a good story, since telling stories is where my strength lies. But I hope I've managed to make a fun, challenging, not frustrating/annoying level in the process!


Download link is...
http://knyttlevels.com/levels/Talps%20-%20Eurydice.knytt.bin (http://knyttlevels.com/levels/Talps%20-%20Eurydice.knytt.bin)

The intro does say 'Part 1' but all the 'parts' are there, in one package, as it were. Like chapters. This is the complete version of the game.


Hope you enjoy it!

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on June 15, 2010, 21:57:43

Cool :D  I was waiting for this level since I read the preview thread. Downloading nao.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: lamarblake on June 16, 2010, 19:05:44

epic. great story. very puzzly..which I love, and you've decorated very, very nicely with some old tilesets and new yes?

however...this is just way too hard for me in places. gets frustrating cause I don't have the hours required to complete such a level with out looking in the level editor.

the most insane area has to be, and I hate invisible mazes, when you finally reach...

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

the king of the dead. he leaves then you have to find another exit out of the room. you're told to follow the rain??? don't I need the umbrella for that which was taken for the way cool crossing of the river of dead? I even gave up cheating at this point. lol

well I gave it a shot even though I peeked.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: trilby93 on June 18, 2010, 04:35:42

Awesome game.

Need help on the spikey area with the gear duders. :(

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Salmoneous on June 18, 2010, 09:17:52

I got bored for all the running back and forth.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: ElMirador on June 18, 2010, 09:24:22

brilliant work.
like reading novels.
also it's such a large level that i spend almost 2 hours to beat it.

well, the last part of the game is the hardest part..
it's not impossible but needs patience..

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on June 18, 2010, 11:08:34

Trilby, I think you mean the lighthouse? with the blocks hanging from chains? I don't know if this will help, but even before you get the High-Jump upgrade, holding down the jump button makes you jump slightly higher. And tapping it makes your jumps shorter. Which helps avoid overhead obstacles.

Lamarblake

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Two screens left from the room where you got the message 'follow the rain' is the room where the rain is falling. There's a platform that runs across the top of the room between where you got the message and where you have to go up, which you can use to access the raining shaft.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: drwright on June 18, 2010, 20:20:06

excellent level, thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you and please make more

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Hmpf on June 19, 2010, 01:38:02

That looks really good. Sadly, I don't have the time to play it now, but I'm looking forward to it. I hope there'll be some time, sometime soon.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: trilby93 on June 19, 2010, 03:27:43

Quote from: Talps on June 18, 2010, 11:08:34

Trilby, I think you mean the lighthouse? with the blocks hanging from chains? I don't know if this will help, but even before you get the High-Jump upgrade, holding down the jump button makes you jump slightly higher. And tapping it makes your jumps shorter. Which helps avoid overhead obstacles.

Lamarblake

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Two screens left from the room where you got the message 'follow the rain' is the room where the rain is falling. There's a platform that runs across the top of the room between where you got the message and where you have to go up, which you can use to access the raining shaft.

Thanks Talps.

Now I'm stuck in hell. I'm at the part with the 6 or 7 surprise pillars. I'm assuming I need the hologram. But for the life of me, I cannot find it. *sadface*

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: trilby93 on June 19, 2010, 04:37:01

Quote from: trilby93 on June 19, 2010, 03:27:43

Quote from: Talps on June 18, 2010, 11:08:34

Trilby, I think you mean the lighthouse? with the blocks hanging from chains? I don't know if this will help, but even before you get the High-Jump upgrade, holding down the jump button makes you jump slightly higher. And tapping it makes your jumps shorter. Which helps avoid overhead obstacles.

Lamarblake

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Two screens left from the room where you got the message 'follow the rain' is the room where the rain is falling. There's a platform that runs across the top of the room between where you got the message and where you have to go up, which you can use to access the raining shaft.

Thanks Talps.

Now I'm stuck in hell. I'm at the part with the 6 or 7 surprise pillars. I'm assuming I need the hologram. But for the life of me, I cannot find it. *sadface*

Edit: ...Well guess who figured it out right after posting that? ME. Anyway, that was the most beautiful level I ever played. Thank you for posting it. :]

P.S.: Does the purple key exist. If so, where? D:!

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on June 19, 2010, 11:32:10

Purple Key gets you the Secret Bonus Ending™.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

It's hidden somewhere near the end of the level, but the one time in the story that you go past it, you can't reach it.

Wow, I'm really happy that you guys are giving me such praise! I have started working on my third level, but I'm a bit Knytt-Story-fatigued, so it'll probably be a while before I make much progress. That's how it went with this; I started it right after making my first level, then stopped and came back to it several months later.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: trilby93 on June 20, 2010, 00:13:34

Quote from: Talps on June 19, 2010, 11:32:10

Purple Key gets you the Secret Bonus Ending™.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

It's hidden somewhere near the end of the level, but the one time in the story that you go past it, you can't reach it.

Whaaaaat? *cries*

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Yonowaaru on June 20, 2010, 18:30:47

Uh, I'm stuck I guess?

I've gone down the well, but there's a place now where I can't get through with water in the screen with a bush-looking enemy. In the screen above also, I can't go right.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on June 20, 2010, 19:09:03

You mean the green thing? Those will charge at you if you turn your back on them but move away from you if you face them. There was one in the hard mode of Nifflas' 'This Level is Unfinished' so I thought I'd probably be ok putting it in there.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Yonowaaru on June 20, 2010, 20:05:36

Ah, that was it?
I knew there was a special way for that, guess that's my punishment for not playing KS for a while  X-P

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: trilby93 on June 21, 2010, 00:23:59

PURPLE KEY, YOU BESEECH MEEEEE! :'(

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on June 21, 2010, 21:06:00

Just wanted to say that I finished playing the level (both endings) and loved every minute of it :)  Some of the pitch black screens were a bit frustrating, but it's alright. Very nice challenges. The only thing that stroke me as odd was...

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

...that lab full of laser traps and machines. That's not what I expected to find in the land of the dead :P

One of the finest levels I've played. Kudos to you, sir :)

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on June 21, 2010, 23:40:50

When I 'wrote the script' of the level, I had a very firm idea of what that was and why it was there, but it wasn't at all obvious when the level was finished. For the release, I added a secret room to that area to explain its presence. I guess you didn't find it :P
Ah well. It was fun making that part, 'cus it's very different from the rest of the level and I was so bored of tunnels and caves by that point :P
Still, glad you enjoyed it so much, and tracked down the bonus ending! :D My next level I have planned will have probably four bonus endings. It's plot is a lot more complicated than 'Eurydice', and since I'm no good at using flags it's gonna take a lot of copying, pasting and reprogramming warps.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: steynj on June 28, 2010, 13:00:46

I have run, climb, double jump, eye, detector and blue key. I just emerged from the old temple and have explored the west areas to no avail - and yes, I have travelled under the city through the buildings.
Help, please!

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on June 28, 2010, 20:31:49

Spoiler: Steynj (click to show/hide)

Do you remember the talking statue that 'gave' you the eye, in the ruins underground? Under the well? You need to go back there; now you have the climb, you can get through a passage down there.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Purple Pineapple on June 29, 2010, 00:52:07

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Some of the challenges exiting the underworld are way too hard to be considered 'hard.'

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: steynj on June 29, 2010, 12:51:04

Last problemo: What to do after I've got the hologram and turned auxilary power back off.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on June 29, 2010, 14:40:32

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Go back to the pillars of light and use the hologram to get past the stone eye - it won't kill you if it can't see you.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Zoerith on June 30, 2010, 02:43:37

It's a really good level, I love it x3 Congratz, good work  C)

But I'm stucked now... I have the ghost eye and the camera, and the yellow and the blue key. Where should I go now? A kitty thing suggested me to go somewhere underground, but I've checked and I didn't find anything.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on June 30, 2010, 14:18:14

You should have seen the yellow keyhole a little while ago.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

It's in the temple, in the room where you got the 'climb' upgrade. You can get into the temple the same way you got out of it after getting the 'climb'. The cat's clue was to point you to the yellow key.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Zoerith on July 02, 2010, 19:31:13

Quote from: Talps on June 30, 2010, 14:18:14

You should have seen the yellow keyhole a little while ago.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

It's in the temple, in the room where you got the 'climb' upgrade. You can get into the temple the same way you got out of it after getting the 'climb'. The cat's clue was to point you to the yellow key.

Ok, thanks. Now I've finished the level x3 Said it, very good ^^ I hope you'll make more levels like this ^^

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on July 02, 2010, 23:26:57

Apart from decorating some screens I'm about a third of the way through my third level, though I haven't made any cutscenes yet (need to get on with that!) The area I've been working on is very similar to the lighthouse in 'Eurydice' (I liked it too much to let it go after just one use) but I now have a lot of near-identical screens that I need to decorate one at a time 'cus I couldn't do it until the third level was fully organised. I'll post in the preview thread soon, maybe once I've got some cutscenes done. It's an exciting level, with a story more complex than 'Eurydice'.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Headgrinder on July 03, 2010, 01:22:19

I'm slowly playing through this.  I just go to the well.  I like it so far, though it is I think the most linear level I've ever played (so far) and I must admit I don't like the spooky purple tileset... though it would make for a cool Tron level.  It is just hard enough to be annoying to me, but not so hard I can't play it.  :) 

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Hmpf on July 23, 2010, 00:43:53

Okay... I've been playing this, sort of incrementally, over the past several days/weeks. So far, the difficulty has been surprisingly okay for me, considering I'm a card-carrying Crap Player. However, now I seem to be stuck - and I really don't see how there can be an escape from where I currently am. I'd be grateful for any advice. See screenshot below.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on July 23, 2010, 10:12:54

Wah! I'm so glad there's someone still playing this :P

As to your problem, you need to just tap the jump button; even before you get the high jump, holding down the jump button causes you to jump slightly higher. So tapping it makes you jump... lower... ( :/)... so you can get under the roof spikes.

Man, just noticed a graphical error in your screenshot :sad:

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Hmpf on July 23, 2010, 16:48:31

But I *am* just tapping it.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Hmpf on July 25, 2010, 00:23:33

Ah, never mind. I eventually cheated my way out of that corner. I'm not exactly proud of that, but I wanted to see the rest of the level... :-(

Overall, btw, I really like the look of this level. I think I've said this before, but I especially appreciate your use of colour. The only point of aesthetic criticism I have is that the temple area is too... hugely pixelated(?) to fit the rest of the level, and especially the areas directly adjacent, and the other tileset you're using in the temple proper. But apart from that, this really is a very nicely designed level.

(I'm still not done with the level, so this is just a bit of intermediate feedback.)

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: TheDarkOne on July 27, 2010, 06:56:10

Wow! this is great but

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

how do you get past the part where

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

you are in the cave (Part 2)

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on July 28, 2010, 22:34:19

There's a lot of cave in part two. Which area in particular?

Thanks fort he intermediate feedback, Hmph, and sorry about you having to cheat. Though I didn't think there was anything was anything wrong with it myself, you're not the first person to complain about the temple. My favourite area, at least before descending, is probably the ocean rocks that the lighthouse is built on.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Antikythera on July 29, 2010, 14:05:07

Brilliant level! I just beat it and I'm really impressed. You get a solid ten points for great storytelling, atmosphere, and diversity. However I have to dock you two points for the invisible maze that just went on and on. There's literally nothing I hate more in a level, so as soon as I realized what it was I activated the cheat without even trying it, and it STILL took me maaany tries. Please don't put another one in your next level. =[

It was hard as balls, though. Especially the area with about five or six straight screens of "follower" enemies, right before

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

you descend.

Still, all in all, a really great level. Like I said, 8/10 in my book.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: StraightFlame on July 29, 2010, 22:37:04

I'm stuck at the first temple's entrance, with only the run power and umbrella. Plz help?

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on July 29, 2010, 23:26:37

I can confirm that there are no invisible mazes in my next level (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=3667.0). (How subtle was that!)

The area before 'descending' (for lack of a better word) was kind of inspired by 'Monocromatica Grotta' by B-Man, only easier :P I like that bit, but that's just me. Anyway, glad t have another appreciator!


StraightFlame, read the speech of the knytts in the temple; they'll tell you where to go next.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: StraightFlame on July 30, 2010, 00:12:36

Quote from: Talps on July 29, 2010, 23:26:37

StraightFlame, read the speech of the knytts in the temple; they'll tell you where to go next.

Okay, i'll see what i can piece together...

Quote

We've been trying to explore this temple, but progress has been slow. This is the main entrance, but...

Quote

In the mountains in the west there's an item that'll let you go in deeper. He'll tell you where it is.

Quote

Jump over a lake in the mountains where red plants grow. Trust me; the wall beyond is like smoke.

Whoa! I didn't notice the details of it!
Okay, now let's piece them together, and we'll get...

Quote

Jump over a lake in the mountains where red plants grow, then go through the wall which is placed on layer 2. There's an item there that lets you explore the temple.

Wait, WHAT? I made my own solution for this problem in the same way as Miles Edgeworth (http://aceattorney.wikia.com/wiki/Miles_Edgeworth) does? Whoa...

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Hmpf on August 04, 2010, 22:53:46

I am interrupting this thread for a moment of self-congratulation:

I am now in the underworld, without cheating another time. I am so proud of myself. :D

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on August 05, 2010, 10:59:32

Congratulations :p

There were a few things I worked hard to avoid in making this, some more successfully than others. I wanted to avoid naming the protagonist and the King of the Dead. I also avoided using the word 'Underworld', just because it's cliched; it was the 'The Land of the Dead' or nothing :P.

I didn't want the Land of the Dead to look like Hell, so I avoided lava or anything demonic. A small section of it is actually slightly inspired by Underland from 'The Silver Chair' (one of my favourite books from 'The Chronicles of Narnia'). The only afterlife 'convention' I used was the river and the ferryman from Greek Mythology, as this level was inspired by a Greek Myth. But I wanted it to feel uncanny, sad and much bigger than the bit we see. I won't go into detail to avoid spoilers, but I wanted it to feel different to the 'living world', but bear strange similarities.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Then I put in a UFO for lulz.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Evil on August 06, 2010, 10:32:42

Eurydice the name of my daughter!

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on August 07, 2010, 01:42:14

It's a nice name!
Word of advice; don't let her marry a guy called Orpheus.

Just in case.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: AClockworkLemon on August 07, 2010, 02:06:02

ok, i'm feeling quite stupid right now, but i guess i at least have the protection of the LoCP banner in my sig...

I have obtained the blue key, got the climb powerup and now (i suppose) need the yellow key. I travelled to the mountains, where a cat mentioned a tunnel in underground ruins, and something about a talking statue...
Where, may i ask, am i supposed to go?

Edit: nevermind, i found it.
but... that was a talking statue? i thought it was one of the ghosts talking to me... oh well.
BTW, this level is great :D between this and doing a bit of the round robin level i'm really getting back into KS! :D

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Hmpf on August 07, 2010, 13:36:35

Talps, you might want to revise the difficulty of this level upwards; to me it feels "very hard", not just "hard". It was hard up to the lighthouse, but there's a definite increase in difficulty after that. (I'm still managing, but it's currently taking me countless tries, spaced out over several days, to master most of the obstacles. With the average hard level, it doesn't take me *that* long. - Okay, granted, my sample of hard levels is very small.)

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Antikythera on August 07, 2010, 13:38:26

I would also tend to agree more with a very hard rating. However, it's all subjective, so whatever you feel like.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Headgrinder on August 07, 2010, 15:02:52

die 0 times at each obstacle = easy
die 5 times = medium
die 15 times = hard
die 30 times = very hard
always die = lunatic

That's my method.  :)

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on August 07, 2010, 22:36:52

 I failed! :sad:

Maaaan, making levels easier is hard... Well I tried to avoid any total luck challenges that ruin so many levels (including my first one). And none of it seemed that hard to me. I made lots of sections much easier than they could have been and still been rankable as very hard. But I guess you guys know best...
S-sorry... :sad:



Lemon, where underground did you meet a talking statue?

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

The talking statue that gave you the eye, for example.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 08, 2010, 00:52:59

Quote from: Headgrinder on August 07, 2010, 15:02:52

die 0 times at each obstacle = easy
die 5 times = medium
die 15 times = hard
die 30 times = very hard
always die = lunatic

That's my method.  :)

Really? For me it's more like exponential growth, i.e.
0 = easy
0-1 = normal
2-7 = hard
8-30 = very hard

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Headgrinder on August 08, 2010, 23:41:45

Ahh, but unlike you esteemed purple pineapple, I suck!  Total LOCP member, but with out the fancy banners everyone else caries around.  :)

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Hmpf on August 08, 2010, 23:48:03

The yellow mushrooms must have killed me a couple hundred times before I finally got past them...

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Purple Pineapple on August 09, 2010, 02:32:43

Quote from: Headgrinder on August 08, 2010, 23:41:45

Ahh, but unlike you esteemed purple pineapple, I suck!  Total LOCP member, but with out the fancy banners everyone else caries around.  :)

I was pointing out that my death pattern follows a steeper curve than yours (see attached image). It is interesting that we both die on lunatic 30+ times, and 0 on easy, but I seem to pass normal and hard challenges with more ease.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Headgrinder on August 10, 2010, 13:29:09

Hahahah!  In the immortal words of Zaphod Beblebrox, you are one zarkin' cool frood.

And again, tis because I suuuck.  :)

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Hmpf on August 15, 2010, 01:09:49

Need some help... I paused for a few days, and now I don't remember any of the clues I got before that pause, and it's not exactly immediately obvious what I'm supposed to do without them. And any way of finding out by trial and error seems rather laborious, at the point of the level where I currently am.

I reached the King of the Dead and

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

went to the right afterwards, where I remember climbing to some place and getting a key - I think. Oh, and I also got the umbrella there, I think. Or maybe I got that elsewhere? Anyway, I have it. Then I went back to the King of the Dead's chamber, and the hall with the ghosts who said the King had gone away and I was safe for now. I then went up one of the waterfalls/airdrafts - the one that had previously been lit but now is dark. (I also explored the corridor that's half the way up that shaft. I may have gotten the key there, in fact, I think. I do remember finding some secret item there. It doesn't seem to be possible to continue very far into the left side of the corridor, btw, there's an impassable obstacle there... or is it?) Well, the shaft took me to a grey and looping version of the upper world. There didn't seem to be anything to do there, so I went back down. But now I don't know what to do.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on August 15, 2010, 01:46:46

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

You need to more thoroughly (now there's a fun word to spell) explore the grey, looping area. Though if you head to the far left of the corridor at the top of the light shafts, you should pick up on what your current 'objective' is.

Spoiler: In the grey, looping area (click to show/hide)

There is a nearly empty pit of water that is worth investigating.

Spoiler: More specifically (click to show/hide)

On a screen with three pits of water.

Also, I know that bit was probably too hard. <_< Sorry.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: obxure on June 08, 2011, 17:38:37

Quote from: Talps on August 07, 2010, 22:36:52

I failed! :sad:

Maaaan, making levels easier is hard... Well I tried to avoid any total luck challenges that ruin so many levels (including my first one). And none of it seemed that hard to me. I made lots of sections much easier than they could have been and still been rankable as very hard. But I guess you guys know best...
S-sorry... :sad:

*massive bumb*

Just finished playing.

It is hard yes, but not too hard.  Both the puzzles and the obstacles were perfect imo.
Seriously, compared to some commercial platform games from the 90's this is still nothing.

It's not because it's free that you have to be able to blaze through it during your coffee break and then forget about it, there's nothing wrong with a little ambition.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on June 09, 2011, 02:14:15

Well thank you, and thanks for the bump! :P

It's very encouraging to hear you did enjoy this, so thanks.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: PeppyHare4000 on June 09, 2011, 02:49:07

One Tile Shaft with creature that could kill you and goes left or right as he pleases = luck based annoyance :moody:
seriously, i had to cheat to get past that guy. I am just thinking: too much luck involved, screw this.

Anyways, i am liking the concept of this level so far. Seems to be difficult but in a confusing & patience way.
I have only got the yellow key...

Quote

I failed! :sad:

Maaaan, making levels easier is hard... Well I tried to avoid any total luck challenges that ruin so many levels (including my first one). And none of it seemed that hard to me. I made lots of sections much easier than they could have been and still been rankable as very hard. But I guess you guys know best...
S-sorry... :sad:



Lemon, where underground did you meet a talking statue?

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

I agree, making levels easier is hard. When i try to do it, the difference seems to be minimal. I had this problem after i made my second level. It was hard and lunatic difficulty. Someone though that hard was lunatic. I feel sorry for the people that did lunatic.

And just a question... Do you play lunatic levels often... i know i played some difficult levels (All my levels are lunatic so far :P)

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: PeppyHare4000 on June 09, 2011, 02:50:39

Quote from: Purple Pineapple on August 08, 2010, 00:52:59

Quote from: Headgrinder on August 07, 2010, 15:02:52

die 0 times at each obstacle = easy
die 5 times = medium
die 15 times = hard
die 30 times = very hard
always die = lunatic

That's my method.  :)

Really? For me it's more like exponential growth, i.e.
0 = easy
0-1 = normal
2-7 = hard
8-30 = very hard

Purple Pineapple, very high expectations for making the level easy... i would stick with headgrinders method.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on June 09, 2011, 13:27:07

I would actually be more critical than Pineapple now, except about 'normal'.

0-1 = easy
2-3 = normal
4-6 = hard
7-15 = Very hard

Or something like that.

I used to play a few lunatic levels, but I've since gone off them. There are still a few I have that I play again from time to time but on the whole I prefer not to go above 'hard' very often, now (soft as a candy-floss hammer). 'Exquisite Knorpse' (1, not 2) and 'Cyborg Juni' (again, only the first one) were a couple of the lunatic levels I found in the archive and liked.

Glad you're enjoying it. I might release a slightly easier version one day, if I ever feel it would get enough attention (not likely, but never mind).
Good luck with the mushrooms; I perhaps went a bit mad there. And sorry about the passage after the throne; it was only after 'Eurydice' that I realised puzzles like that just don't work well.

But personally I love the epic scale of this level, the huge-ness of everything. The temple is enormous, the lighthouse towers, the mines are vast, the pit is incredibly deep... I loved the vastness of it all.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: PeppyHare4000 on June 11, 2011, 01:41:59

I just finished this level... wow this was long. It was a good challenge although the end of Part 3 and the Beginning of Part 4 was very annoying because of the darkness hindering your navigation.

My Opinion on the secret ending:

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

This is what happens when a man forfeits his manhood! XD

So anyways, i liked the level overall except for those stupid luck-based shaft traps. I kind of liked the design of the temple...

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on June 12, 2011, 17:13:29

Yeah, sorry about the darkness.
And also, having played through the level again myself, sorry about the spike traps in the Temple.

But thanks for the feedback; it's very encouraging to here this is going down well. I've got another half-finished epic-length level tucked away, and I'm getting encouraged to start work on it again, if I can iron out the problems that delayed it.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: powderj on June 12, 2011, 18:56:44

I'd love to see another epic level from you talps!  I downloaded this level when I was pretty new to playing knytt stories and wasn't able to complete it.  About a month ago I started playing from the beginning and absolutely loved it!  I'm definitely planning on playing this one again!

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on June 13, 2011, 11:20:18

 8D *Gets praise tan*

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: PeppyHare4000 on June 13, 2011, 19:28:11

also, don't be hard on yourself with the difficulty (besides the luck-based ones). You may scare away people who like easy levels but you will attract people who like a challenge (like me for example)...

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Headgrinder on June 14, 2011, 14:13:17

Hey!  I'm not scared!  Just inept.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: PeppyHare4000 on June 14, 2011, 17:21:36

Quote from: Headgrinder on June 14, 2011, 14:13:17

Hey!  I'm not scared!  Just inept.

Sure you are... :P

Anyways, make your next mass sized level less lucked-based talps. Ill be playing it once it is released

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on June 14, 2011, 18:41:32

That is the intention and the hope.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Semeurim on June 27, 2011, 17:37:19

Wonderful level, so far. I'm kind of stuck on the part in the well with the three shooter-monsters (really early on in the level, I know)... too lazy to take a screenshot, so I'll just try to figure it out later. ;P

Keep up the great work.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: benbutton53 on July 15, 2011, 22:30:21

First of all, fantastic level so far. It is long, but definitely worth it.

However, I am stuck right now. I'm at the part where...

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

...you get on to the UFO. I turned on the Auxiliary Power, but from there it's basically a looping area. I get to the screen where you first pick up the "hologram power", but then there's two lasers that never turn off preventing me from getting out of the area. Is there something else I have to do? I've gone through every screen so far in the UFO area, even the "secret" one and I have no idea where to go.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on July 15, 2011, 23:45:13

Hi, it's great to hear you're playing this! I hope you'll let me know your full opinion when you're done.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

From the screen where you get the hologram, go right. You'll need to use the hologram to get past the spikes.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: benbutton53 on July 16, 2011, 01:50:28

Thanks for the quick reply. Back to work...

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

But see, I've already done that. I go to the right, avoid the spikes, avoid the lasers, and go down. I avoid those blue ball things as well as the laser, and go right again because that's the only way I can go. I jump over the lasers and go right again. Once again, I avoid the lasers and go up. I avoid the UFO looking thing that sprays white dust (?) as well as another laser. I jump and avoid another laser, and go up. Now I can either go up, or the secret way, and look at some old writings by whoever previously inhabited the UFO. Or I can go left, avoiding the lasers, and press the red button to make the glass barrier disappear. Then I can go down and I'm back at the big machine that turns the Auxiliary Power on or off. The only way I can go is left and then I'm right back where I started.

Woo, that was a mouthful. Hope that made sense.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on July 16, 2011, 02:45:50

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Turn the Auxiliary Power back off and leave the UFO. You'll have the hologram so you can go back and use it in the Underworld.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: PeppyHare4000 on July 16, 2011, 09:09:53

never mind about the so called luck based shaft. Once i figured out that they forcibly move right when you look at them (found that out in this topic), this is not luck based anymore. Ignore my comment.

I like the length of this level and...

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

How you executed the secret ending. It makes the person think if he/she wants the secret ending...

How long did it take you to make this level anyways?

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on July 16, 2011, 15:04:56

Hard to say. I'm not a 'consistent' designer. I just work on levels on and off in my free time, when I feel like it. I don't know how many hours I spent working on 'Eurydice' but I think it took about a year to be made (I guess I could dig out my old laptop and find out exactly, but I don't think anyone's bothered enough to justify the effort).

The epic level I'm currently working on started in August 2010 and is now about three quarters finished. There were a couple of weeks last month that consisted of what can only be called fevered productivity and I made a huge chunk of level, including 2 cutscenes, three tilesets, the designs of a new area, several COs, two of the best-looking screens I've ever made, and a style of gameplay I've never done before, plus testing and updating the older parts of the level... but since then I've added a grand total 6 screens. I've set myself the target of having it finished before the end of the year.

Also, thanks for the comment and glad to liked it :D

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: hqql on July 27, 2011, 01:49:00

First off, I'm really enjoying this level! It has been QUITE the challenge so far, but I guess that's why it's called Hard :P

Everything was pretty managable up untill this point, I'm now confronted with this wall of upwardly crushing pillars (pic1) which seems almost impossible to cross (pic2). I'm pretty new to Knytt/Knytt stories so I was kinda hoping there might be a trick to doing this I'm not aware of?
I run up to the last possible point before I jump and make my jump as long as possible before I doublejump, but that last pillar is just SET on making me eat ceiling everytime I do this, and every other method of jumping I tried only slows down the jump, or speeds up my death, either way.

So... Please help? ^^

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on July 27, 2011, 12:10:29

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Read what the shadow people and mysterious lights say to you nearby. They will explain what you have to do.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: hqql on July 27, 2011, 14:29:57

I HAVE COMPLETED THE GAME!!! :D:D:D

Oh and F the different ending :P


Thank you Talps, this was very enjoyable! For me some parts were a bit too hard to really like but then again, I've only just started playing Knytt/Stories.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: eddiebolt on June 05, 2012, 04:55:45

Quote from: Hmpf on July 23, 2010, 00:43:53

Okay... I've been playing this, sort of incrementally, over the past several days/weeks. So far, the difficulty has been surprisingly okay for me, considering I'm a card-carrying Crap Player. However, now I seem to be stuck - and I really don't see how there can be an escape from where I currently am. I'd be grateful for any advice. See screenshot below.

Dear Talps,

I live in the same city as headgrinder. We're friends and he turned me on to KS. I spent 3 years working in Quality Assirance for a video game developer, so sorry if I come across as opinionated, but I wanted to tell you how much FUN I have had playing this level! It is amazing. Great story. Wonderfully balanced, challenging gameplay. It feels good to overcome a hard obstacle, even after dying 10+ times or more. The use of storytelling and power-up aquisition and LOSS is awesome. I've thought so many times, "why oh why did I give up the umbrella?!" But it is really an excellently made, fun game. Hard, but fun.

That is, until I got to this part. I CAN'T get past it. Probably 1 out of 10 times I'm able to, with great finesse, tap my keyboard at just the right delicacy to not hit the spike ceiling. After spending close to 20 minutes on this spot, I have to say that it is not my game playing. It is the level design. I'm not having fun because I'm a bad player, I'm not having fun because this spot is a severe difficulty "spike." (pun intended.) Just raising the spike ceiling in this room by a brick or two would greatly enhance the user experience. The fact that other people have gotten stuck here only backs up my "point."

OK, enough whining and cheesey puns from a crappy player.  If you ever did an update to this completely awesome level, fixing the "graphical error" (which I missed) and tweaking this room to make it just a *little* easier, I think that would be awesome.

Several people have mentioned "cheating" through this. I will now reveal how much of a noob I am: How do I do this? I'd really like to keep playing this level!

Thanks for making such an awesome level!

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: egomassive on June 05, 2012, 07:43:40

Welcome to the forum eddiebolt. We're not allowed to tell you how to cheat. The mods will edit our discussion to enforce this, but in this topic (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=15.0) they tell you how to find out how to cheat.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Headgrinder on June 05, 2012, 12:43:18

Ha!  Eddie eh?  You can also sometimes "cheat" by using the editor, but this can cause problems with game play if there are any 'flags' that have to be triggered, like flipping a switch or talking to someone which causes something to change in the game.

I've never been a good enough gamer to secure the cheat code.  :`(

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on June 06, 2012, 19:23:02

I humbly confess that there's not a single flag in 'Eurydice'. This was my second level; I didn't start using flags (or COs, for that matter) until some time afterwards. Too much voodoo for my limited know-how.

Quote from: eddiebolt on June 05, 2012, 04:55:45

I spent 3 years working in Quality Assirance for a video game developer

:O

Quote from: eddiebolt on June 05, 2012, 04:55:45

so sorry if I come across as opinionated

:shocked:

Quote from: eddiebolt on June 05, 2012, 04:55:45

but I wanted to tell you how much FUN I have had playing this level!

C)p

Quote from: eddiebolt on June 05, 2012, 04:55:45

That is, until I got to this part. I CAN'T get past it.

:oops:

Man, you had me terrified with the 'opinionated' line; never before has that preceded good news!
It is really really great to get feedback, especially after all this time since I released this level, and from someone with your job! So thanks a ton for saying you're enjoying it! I had a lot of fun working on this level back in the day, and I'm glad it's still being played and is fun.

As chance would have it, I played through this level for the first time in maybe a year a couple of weeks ago, and discovered a variety of little points that I found borderline-frustrating; maybe I will release a new addition some day soon - wish I'd taken notes as I played through it now.
Sorry about the particular thing that's got you stuck now, though; I distinctly remember making and testing that part, and even remember that I only made the spikes cover the whole ceiling because it was more aesthetically pleasing than if they stopped part-way.

As for an immediate solution, I have three suggestions.
1. If you're not already, try playing the section in full-screen. You can full-screen-ify KS by pressing alt+enter. I think it's more than placebo that that does make some jumps and tricks easier; it might make jumping out of there possible.
2. Edit the screen using the level editor. (Assuming you know nothing about how the editor works) Open 'Eurydice' in the KS level editor, navigate to screen 1034,1027, press '5' on your keyboard and then left-click and run the mouse pointer over the spikes above the switch; the red boxes covering the spikes should disappear - the red boxes are what kills you; the spikes themselves are just graphics. Save and then go back to the level - you can resume your saved game without any problems.
3. Use the Top Secret KS Cheat; type 'Knytt Stories cheat' into youtube and watch the magic happen. I don't really recommend this because I find that once you start using the cheat, it's really had to stop (cf. Dark Sea 2).

Anyway, I'm really glad you're having fun, thanks for commenting to say as much, I hope you can make it past those spikes and I'm really, really sorry about the pitch-dark screens near the end. If'n'when you get to the end, I'd love to hear your full opinion. Also, if you haven't already tried out my other levels, they're posted in my signature (sorry, that was a shameless plug).

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: seattalite on July 26, 2012, 03:58:37

Talps! Great game! Really. One of the best KS games I've ever played. seriously. Up there with all the classic stuff - egomassive's work, Gaia, Frozen Mountain..Nifflas' original stuff - really - great stuff. But I'm confused as sh--....heck. Alright - I completed the game but.......

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

- in the Alien area (auxiliary power - first it's blue then turns red and loops) - I ended up having to go through the loop twice! Arrrgghhh! - but got through it - but I noticed there's a part where Juni glows green - WHAT WAS THERE!?!?! was there the fourth key that I was supposed to pick up? I couldn't find anything. Then I saw that since I got the hologram - basically turn the Aux power off and leave (I wouldn't have realized even to do that if I didn't read that tip in the forums) - so I left and got to the tunnel of light and floated back to the world - but I still didn't have the fourth key to open that area next to the grave and I'm stuck in the town and the game ended!!! I feel like I missed something. Where do I get the fourth key and where/what is the secret/bonus ending? DO I have to replay the entire game from the start now? It's a long..epic game and that's a good thing BUT you should make an option like Ego did with 'Shipwrecked' especially on a long epic game like this that we can restart the game from near the end to pursue the bonus ending. Seriously - that would be truly considerate of all the hard work players go through to complete the game the 1st time around and not making them have to do everything over from scratch to see the bonus ending.

Anyway - can you answer those two questions: re: the fourth key and the secret/bonus ending?

thanks!!! and again, great game!!

Quote from: Talps on June 19, 2010, 11:32:10

Purple Key gets you the Secret Bonus Ending™.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

It's hidden somewhere near the end of the level, but the one time in the story that you go past it, you can't reach it.

Why would you do that!?


Seriously. Why?

Now we have to play the game from SCRATCH(!?) to get it?

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Widget on July 29, 2012, 10:31:15

I'm afrad I don't have answers to your questions but please, please, use the modify button at the top right of your posts to add more if no-one's posted since you last did.

Double-posting is bad-form; quadruple posting is really antisocial behaviour in any forum.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: seattalite on July 30, 2012, 15:58:51

Quote from: Widget on July 29, 2012, 10:31:15

I'm afrad I don't have answers to your questions but please, please, use the modify button at the top right of your posts to add more if no-one's posted since you last did.

Double-posting is bad-form; quadruple posting is really antisocial behaviour in any forum.

Ok - I JUST fixed this last night - I'm not sure what happened but it reverted back to it's original 4-post form - so I fixed it again. and my reply post got deleted!?!? Anyway - as I said - my bad about the multiple-posts - it wasn't intentional - I'm just not current on internet etiquette. I was posting stream-of-consciousness style AS I was progressing my way through the game - that's all. Hopefully this time - the Fix/Edit will stay.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on August 04, 2012, 10:36:55

This would happen while I'm out of the country for two weeks.

Great to hear from you Seattalite! I'm really glad you enjoyed this level so much! To try and answer your questions...

There is something by the glowy area in the crashed ship, but it's not the purple key.

Spoiler: About the purple key (click to show/hide)

You do not need to replay the game from the beginning to get the purple key. If you reload your save you'll be back in the Underworld right before you left. You do need the hologram to find it.

Your reward for getting the purple key is that you get to see the bonus ending.


Glad you enjoyed the level. ;) Good luck with your search.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: ixMarcel on September 25, 2012, 15:48:45

I have played it once, but I couldn't finish it. Let's try again...

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: ska on September 05, 2013, 17:21:56

"You do not need to replay the game from the beginning to get the purple key. If you reload your save you'll be back in the Underworld right before you left. You do need the hologram to find it."

Okay, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. I'm not being obtuse.   I have played and won the game TWICE and searched every nook and cranny!  No purple key.  On both my saved games I am at the last possible save point right before you exit the darkness, fly up, and win.  MY QUESTION IS....Can I go back now to get the purple key, or have I gone to far?

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: ska on September 05, 2013, 17:46:33

umm....Never mind!  I just found the purple key!  I hereby declare this my favorite Knytt game of all time! C)p

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on September 05, 2013, 18:46:54

:D Thanks!
Sorry about the dark invisible section!
And the ludicrously difficult bit to get the purple key!

And thanks again! :D

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: sergiocornaga on September 06, 2013, 10:59:01

Quote from: ska on September 05, 2013, 17:46:33

I hereby declare this my favorite Knytt game of all time! C)p

If you haven't already, maybe you might like to try other Talps Classics™ such as I Dreamed of the Sky (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=5416.0) or Petals of a Dying Flower (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=4706.0)?

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: ska on September 06, 2013, 15:35:00

      SERGIO, I've played and finished (except for "Haydron Collider") all of Talps's games, they are ALL my favorites, but particularly the two you mentioned. Do you have any other suggestions for excellent games?

      TALPS, gotta take a moment here-you are a brilliant designer.  I am your gushing fanboy.  You make wonderful challenges-JUST hard enough that you are really really challenged, but not so difficult that it detracts from the theme or story of your game and you become supremely frustrated or quit.  Your dark but ultimately uplifiting themes strick a deep psychological cord.  You follow along with Knytt through her journeys similar to a great novel!  Thank you for all your efforts!

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on September 06, 2013, 19:22:47

Thanks Ska; it's really, really great to hear feedback like that. Storytelling is my real passion so it's great to hear you like what I'm doing. :)

Speaking of dark and uplifting...

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: juhj on September 10, 2013, 16:06:54

Is that ^ a screenshot of a new level in progress? :whoa: It looks very good. (Especially the cube.)

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on September 10, 2013, 17:06:55

Coloured cubes seem to be popping up everywhere (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=6079.msg64788#msg64788)!

(yes, I'm being deliberately mysterious).

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: juhj on September 10, 2013, 17:40:49

Very interesting!  ;)

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: McGloomy on November 17, 2013, 01:50:26

I loved "Petals of a Dying Flower", so I also gave "Eurydice" a try. There were some pretty hard sections, but I got through all of them and really enjoyed the level so far, but now I'm stuck at the "wall of upwardly crushing pillars" like others in this thread before me. I've explored the whole tunnel section and tried to understand what the hints were trying to tell me, but right now I'm just really stuck. Can someone please help me?   :sad:

UPDATE: I figured it out! Sometimes all you need to do is take a break for a few days and just give it a second try. ^^

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: scwizard on June 15, 2015, 03:42:52

Amazing level.

One quip, finding the teleporter in the lake in the grey area above the underworld took me looking at the editor.

Also I was really hoping for a chance to go back and explore the full overworld and get to this area. It looked like there was a huge area past here, sadly there was nothing but void...

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on June 17, 2015, 20:22:02

Many years ago I played the computer game version of 'The Phantom Menace' on a friend's PC. I never finished it and it's horribly dated now, but the way it made a linear world feel vast and open was really amazing; no other game I've played has done so good a job (the Half Life 2 games for example do an awful job of making the world look anything but totally linear). So giving the feeling that the world you're in is much bigger than the world you're seeing is something I aspire to. Glad you got so caught up in the illusion. ;) Sadly filling in all the odd corners would only create more odd corners to fill, and that, I fear, is the road to where madness lies.

As for the lake in the grey world, I concur; there are a lot of little things like that in 'Eurydice' that would benefit from being changed, and a few very large things too. I've been toying with the idea of making 'Eurydice DX' for a while now, but I think it'd be such a big job to get it up to a standard I could be happy with now that not a lot of it would be recognisable afterwards. :P I might get to it one day, but at the moment I'm focussing my Knytting time on new creations.

Still, thanks for posting and letting me know you enjoyed it. It's great to get feedback. ;)

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: scwizard on June 20, 2015, 03:46:08

It's awesome to hear that you're still working on levels.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: seattalite on July 16, 2015, 01:34:38

just replayed level - like all Talps levels - great!! I'm lost again on how to get the purple key! lol.

I have everything else. Can someone spoiler-alert the info to me in a reply. Thanks

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on July 16, 2015, 13:08:20

Spoiler: Of the purple key... (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Seriously, total give-away here (click to show/hide)

Try re-exploring the area behind the throne after getting the hologram (you don't have to restart your game to do this).

Glad you're having fun! :D


I must make Eurydice DX
I must make Eurydice DX
I must make Eurydice DX...

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: seattalite on July 28, 2015, 01:45:54

Quote from: Talps on July 16, 2015, 13:08:20

Spoiler: Of the purple key... (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Seriously, total give-away here (click to show/hide)

Try re-exploring the area behind the throne after getting the hologram (you don't have to restart your game to do this).

Glad you're having fun! :D


I must make Eurydice DX
I must make Eurydice DX
I must make Eurydice DX...

You DA MAN, Talps!!!!

When are you coming out with your next Knytt Stories level!?!

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on July 28, 2015, 19:13:07

Quote from: seattalite on July 28, 2015, 01:45:54

When are you coming out with your next Knytt Stories level!?!

http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=3667.60 (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=3667.60)

Getting there.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: pfrangip on August 08, 2015, 16:21:38

Well, I just replayed Eurydice for the... 4th time, maybe?

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Still my favorite KS level! The story and environments are still just as poignant as I remember it. The challenges were a little more difficult than I remembered them being (especially the mushroom area), and there were a few things a little clunkier than I remember them being (a few places where you can run into a screen and be killed immediately) but otherwise still just... well... epic.

I actually found a void screen, believe or not, at x998y1033, you can get up to it from below if you return to the well after getting the high-jump from the shoreline.

Focusing on what I think makes this level so great are the story, the environments, and the knytts you interact with: the subject really is the most serious and ambitious topic anyone can address: a single parent grieving for the loss of their only child. Here it is executed with the appropriate respect and tone... the environments are dark and bleak and gray, the NPCs are respectful, the challenges are difficult, and the journey feels long and arduous. Even though this is a pixelated video game, we still get a glimpse of the mother's loss and despair. This gives the player real motivation here... unlike someone trying to find a key or explore a new world, we're trying to save this widow's only child. And yet despite this, it never ceases being fun, the player is always looking for the next step.

The environments again, are executed perfectly, especially the underworld. I loved the difficulty in getting there, the boat ride was excellent. It reminds of the land of the dead in Ursula K. LeGuin's Earthsea series. The mushroom area, while difficult, was the right level of "alien" to make the underworld seem organic and real. The quotes of the dead, mostly mourning their lost lives, were appropriately, respectfully gloomy. The alien, grey, dead, circular "surface world" I remember being extremely impressed with the first time I played this level. I thought I'd gotten home! Only to realize... this... isn't home. No, we're still trapped! I had less of that feeling on playthrough number 4, knowing now to expect it.

[The one little piece that I think it out of place is the laboratory. You're in a dead underworld, what's with the laboratory with lasers and holograms and robots? Is this to imply that the land of the dead is artificial? Some advanced civilization set it up hoping for quasi-immortality? If that's the case, it might be a tiny bit more explicit.]

The ending was also extremely poignant. The ambiguity leaves the player feeling both loss and hope.

The secret ending was funny, and on-point, and gave the real ending a tiny little bit more hope.  :)

I would do a formal review, but it'd be too gushing and impartial and its difficult to put how I feel about this level into a few check boxes.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on August 08, 2015, 22:53:09

Ah, it's great to hear you're so passionate about this. Storytelling has always been my passion (starting with a 12-year-old's fanfiction and working up from there) and 'Eurydice' is the first time I tried to use computer games as a medium for storytelling. These days when I look at this I tend to focus more on those clunky and overly-hard parts (though unlike apparently everyone else I can get past the springs in the mushroom forest without dying) more than the good side. (And what's with that flying saucer in the underworld? Seriously, what possessed me to think that was a good idea?!)

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

It's great to hear that the story was so powerful and meaningful to you, and even the parts that others see as negatives actually contribute to your immersion. :)

Actually I was playing through this myself a week or two ago and for the first time I, too, noticed that void you found. I remember I was originally planning not to include the hi-jump before you reached the Underworld which is probably why the earlier areas didn't take it into account.

I love the Earthsea books through I didn't read them until after making this, I think. Actually for the Underworld I drew inspiration from the underground sections of The Silver Chair - one of my favourite childhood books. I was very proud of the boat ride, which logically relates more to Greek myth. Though one of the ghost women is wince-provokingly cheesy.

I'm also glad you like the ending, though it's possibly the part I'm least happy with (barring that stupid crashed spaceship). I was inspired to make this level after playing the flash game Don't Look Back (http://terrycavanaghgames.com/dontlookback/) which has a very tragic ending. I wanted to make my ending less sad but also didn't want to deviate too much from the myth - two objectives so incompatible as to create an ending ambiguous to the point of meaninglessness.

Anyway, I shouldn't be so critical of myself I guess; 'Eurydice', if nothing else, was the second step on a journey that has brought me to levels like 'The Greying Tower', 'I Chased the Moon' and (happy thought) 'Dragon Myth'. But I'm also really glad to hear that you're finding so much good in it as it is. :)

'Eurydice DX', a remake of this level more up to the standards I set myself today, is one of three four large projects I'm contemplating to follow 'Dragon Myth'. I've done a fair bit of planning for it, including a map, a flow diagram of events (which will run in a different order to the original to improve flow and cut out some of the backtracking) and some basic scripts. Reading what made the original work for you is also giving me ideas. So maybe soon I will be working to make something stronger and more accessible, a new way of telling the old and older tale.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: oriane on April 20, 2020, 22:55:30

Hi Talps!

I discovered your levels by digging for KS recommendations in some threads from 10 years ago. I really liked The coming of the dark (even found the secret sigils  :P2), so now I'm doing Eurydice. However I'm afraid I'm in a softlock.

Spoiler: Click here for description! (click to show/hide)

During part 2, I got the jump upgrade after the lighthouse and proceeded to get back to the clouds, however I fell into the lighthouse and inadvertently saved my position. I could not get back up because of slippery walls, so I proceeded to go down the lighthouse one more time. But I can't get past the third room from the top (the first one with two levers). After pulling the lever in the top-right corner I'm unable to get out because even my smallest jumps reach the spiked ceiling.  :S
I'm still rather new to KS so there might be some techniques I haven't heard about. Am I missing something?

In any case, thanks for your work, I'll look up your later levels!

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on April 21, 2020, 01:12:43

Hello, thanks for playing my levels and welcome to the forums! Good job on completing my super-hard monstrosity of a first level; I think that puts you in a pretty exclusive club!

I'm afraid a few people got stuck where you are in Eurydice. Going into the lighthouse is the correct route. It is possible to do that jump but it's very tricky. I was thinking of correcting some issues with this level but it has so many flaws that my plan turned instead into a plan for a complete remake of the level, which never really got off the ground (despite writing a complete script and sequence plan, I only ever made about a dozen screens).

A few years ago I did my best to help someone else stuck where you are. What I told them is below.

Quote

1. If you're not already, try playing the section in full-screen. You can full-screen-ify KS by pressing alt+enter. I think it's more than placebo that that does make some jumps and tricks easier; it might make jumping out of there possible.
2. Edit the screen using the level editor. (Assuming you know nothing about how the editor works) Open 'Eurydice' in the KS level editor, navigate to screen 1034,1027, press '5' on your keyboard and then left-click and run the mouse pointer over the spikes above the switch; the red boxes covering the spikes should disappear - the red boxes are what kills you; the spikes themselves are just graphics. Save and then go back to the level - you can resume your saved game without any problems.
3. (Not recommended, but the easiest solution) Use the Top Secret KS Cheat; type 'Knytt Stories cheat' into Youtube.

Whatever you do, I hope you have fun, and try out some of my later levels which are less rocky! Thanks for playing and posting.  :)

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: oriane on April 21, 2020, 14:48:55

I'd rather not learn how to cheat for now, so I went with your second solution. This was my first time in the level editor, so if I ever spend hundreds of hours in it later, I shall hold you responsible.  X)

Anyway, the tweak went smooth thanks to your advice, so I'm on to the rest of the level!

It's quite heartwarming to find a designer offering quick advice even though the level's about to turn 10 in a few weeks.  <3

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on April 21, 2020, 21:04:40

Quote from: oriane on April 21, 2020, 14:48:55

It's quite heartwarming to find a designer offering quick advice even though the level's about to turn 10 in a few weeks.  <3

I'm so OOOOOOOLD!!! :(

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: pfrangip on April 23, 2020, 15:12:41

I replayed this again for the umpteenth time, because I saw it at the top of the board. The story is still just as great as I remember! I hope one day you are able to complete the redo.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

I think this is the first time I ever got to the secret room in the crashed space ship. Now, ten years later, can you answer some questions for us loyal fans?

The "grey world" that you access from the underworld: it mirrors the "real world," but why?
Did you just re-use the screens for no other reason, and it's supposed to be an alien planet?
Is it death's "shadow realm" version of the real world, where everything is the same but shadowy and different? Like this is what -any- ghost would see, trying to access the real world. But that doesn't explain the space ship.
So is it an "upside-down" version of the real world, maybe an alternate timeline where the aliens crashed and things went south?
Or is it the far future or past, where in the far future an alien ship lands on a grey, dying world, and you can access it from Hades because death is timeless?

Thanks again for making this level... a decade ago!

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on April 23, 2020, 22:25:30

I'm really glad you still enjoy it!

Spoiler:  Caution; the author takes no responsibility if the following peak behind the curtain damages your appreciation for the level! (click to show/hide)

I never saw the grey area and the UFO as really being connected. The UFO is on the very first non-digital plan I made for Eurydice (I have maps of the Overworld and the Land of the Dead drawn in pencil in a massive sketchbook which has since been scribbled all over by my nieces and nephews) and I think I initially decided to put it in there because I wanted to include a technological environment - my first level, The Coming Dark, had by its concept let me blend mechanical and natural areas with abandon, and I wanted a little of that in this. I also wanted a high-tech area to introduce the hologram, since as a machine it was out of place with the fantasy setting.

I look back and consider it to have been a bad decision; it doesn't fit with the rest of the level and I hate the backstory I had for it being there.

Quote from: pfrangip on April 23, 2020, 15:12:41

...it's supposed to be an alien planet?
So is it an "upside-down" version of the real world, maybe an alternate timeline where the aliens crashed and things went south?
Or is it the far future or past, where in the far future an alien ship lands on a grey, dying world, and you can access it from Hades because death is timeless?

These are all great ideas and better than the one I had! Take your pick; I vote for the last one!
After all, all the world lies beneath the Grey River.

The grey area wasn't on the original plan and as I recall, I decided to include it at about the same time I put it in. I needed to fill the gap between the King's Hall and the UFO. But I saw it as a shadowy illusion of the world the mother came from; I liked the effect though it's too hard to work out how to progress and I think it caused a lot of frustration for people. I felt very vindicated when you posted in this thread and said how much you loved that bit, how it tricked you into thinking, briefly, that you had made it home. To be honest, I was more worried that people would be annoyed that I'd duplicated screens and think I'd just been lazy, so I'm really glad it became such a significant part of the story for you.

So there you go; the thing that was in the plan from the start is the only bit of the level I strongly regret, and the spur-of-the-moment addition worked out really well.

Oh and you know what, just 'cus it's you, pfrangip.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

This is a story men once told.

There was a young maiden whose name is no longer remembered. She lived in a village below a mountain pass, and the road that ran over the mountains, through the village and to a city on the coast was travelled by all kinds of folk. One such traveller was a lone merchant whose wife lived many days’ journey inland; he passed there from time to time and he desired the girl. Each time he stayed in the village he courted her with pretty, worthless gifts and charming complements and she was besotted by him. When she was fourteen he took what he wanted from her, making her feel more valuable than gold, and then did so again each time he visited until she told him she was pregnant, after which he never travelled that way again. In the following summer she gave birth to a son.

The shame of her affair isolated her from the other villagers and her family. Her child became the centre of her world. For seven years she fed him, clothed him, taught and loved him. Then in the autumn he caught a fever and, two weeks later, died like a spring flower.

There are cool stone tunnels under that village where ancient people had painted men and animals on the walls, and where the villagers laid out their dead. For three days the heart-broken mother stayed awake in the cave beside the body of her child as the skies wept more tears than mortal eyes ever could.

The mother’s story began with the touch of a pale, cold hand and the gentle song of falling rain.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: pfrangip on April 26, 2020, 18:13:10

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Wow that is great, Talps. I really do appreciate it! I've never been one to avoid peeking "behind the curtain," I think it's always interesting to see the thought-process that goes into creative design.

Apparently I've been pronouncing it wrong this whole time, also. I always pronounced it "Yuri-Dise.", like "Paradise" but with the name "Yuri" in front. Google says its "Yuh-Rid-ih-See,"

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on April 26, 2020, 20:52:32

In school I was taught 'YUR-ih-deece'.

I think in Greek it's more like Eh-RED-ih-kiss'.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: bernd on May 05, 2020, 22:06:47

I just played it and I really enjoyed this level!

just one question:
I never really got the purple key and entered the left house.
is there some way to do this too? :-)

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on May 05, 2020, 23:46:09

Glad you had fun!

There is. I think I gave it away in a spoiler tag in this thread at one point.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: StellarJetman on August 30, 2020, 23:31:37

Quote from: Talps on April 26, 2020, 20:52:32

In school I was taught 'YUR-ih-deece'.

Horrible.  Whoever told you that shouldn't have been teaching.  It's yu-RID-ih-see.

Title: Re: [Hard/Challenge] Eurydice
Post by: Talps on August 31, 2020, 17:10:53

Well, she wasn't the worst teacher I ever had. There was the one who had to get me to explain the story of the Israelite Exodus from Egypt because she frankly hadn't a clue. In the scheme of things, mispronouncing one foreign name is probably forgivable.