Nifflas' Support Forum

Level Editing Support => Knytt Stories Level Editing Support => Topic started by: Miss Paula on February 18, 2009, 01:25:45

Title: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Miss Paula on February 18, 2009, 01:25:45
With a lot of help from Bloxmaster, this topic was summarised and ported over from the old forum.

The admins' standpoint on this is the following:
Using copyrighted material, including music and graphics or even characters, is not legal, as per United States laws. (These laws MUST be followed by the forum, as the server is in the USA), so in order to protect everyone, such things will be removed.

Quote from: LPChip
I certainly will delete levels where I find out that they use illegal material. Not to bully you, but to protect this forum and you. If indeed a company goes in pursuit to track you down, itís my obligation to help them in any way, which results in giving out your IP address. With that, they can contact your ISP, and through them, they'll get your name and address (or that of your parents or whoever pays the internet access at that moment). Eventually they'll reach you and you'll have to pay a big fine for infringement. I just don't want it to go that far, and I therefore will prevent any effort where possible.
When it comes to our notice that copyrighted material has been used, the user will be asked if they have permission.
Quote from: LPChip
If the person wants to lie to us, then it means they know that they are breaking copyright concerns, and it will be entirely up to them to cope with the problems. I don't want to be a bully, but I want to protect people from getting harmed. If they don't want the protection (by lying) then they're on their own.


However, the generally valuable idea that the creators should be able to have control over what they create has severe flaws, and it seems the 'fine line' and 'how punishable infringement is' seem to vary. The following quotes basically are included for their food-for-thought-value. Nifflas' personal point of view on this matter:
Quote from: Nifflas
Yeah, but it still takes a human with neither a heart nor brain to attempt to sue those children. In this case, I still give the industry the entire blame. Timberland steals music from Tempest to produce a song for Nelly Furtado without consequences, but a 12-year girl gets sued for file sharing. The record industry has too much money and power, and lawyers enough to attack anyone they want to, and defend themselves from almost anything.

But, on the other hand, LPChip has a point:
Quote
....it would be non-human to just abuse someone's music without having permission. How would you feel if you spend 2 months to work on something and you're proud of? Then you learn that someone used what you made in a crappy movie or level or whatever without even asking you? I certainly would be really pissed.

So, to sum this up:
Think honestly about these questions before using anything you didn't make yourself or already got the permission to use.
If you're still not sure, feel free to ask. :)
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Evil on March 07, 2009, 11:27:00
Why did the server move to america?
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Razzorman on March 07, 2009, 14:07:10
I think it has always been there.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on March 07, 2009, 22:08:05
Indeed, the server always was in the USA.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lingon on March 08, 2009, 01:39:32
This is a touchy subject indeed, but I do not like the new rule, at least not all the way through. I understand why the admins want to protect the site, themselves and the users... but removing tiny knytt levels in which we use fitting (and copyrighted) materials seems almost too serious to me.

There is no 'fine line'; since it varies its not a line - but more of a zone, greyscale or call it what you like. That creative minds should be tied by these strict rules is not good at all. My opinion is also based on the fact that this is noncommercial knytt levels were talking about. Yes, the scale should matter.

Copyright vs creative freedom (as just inspiration or using material) is a hot-topic in Sweden, were the government is just about to vote for a new law, enabling individuals or companies to obtain the name behind the IP if the suspicion of theft or abuse is strong enough. I've thought about it quite a bit of lately, and i do not fully agree with LPChip;

Quote
....it would be non-human to just abuse someone's music without having permission. How would you feel if you spend 2 months to work on something and you're proud of? Then you learn that someone used what you made in a crappy movie or level or whatever without even asking you? I certainly would be really pissed.

I'm not sure of how I would feel. But i think that instead of being really pissed, i would be proud and glad that someone thought my work of art was good enough to use in their own work. As long as they did not claim it as their own of course. However, this was not my opinion some time ago... but i've changed my mind about that. If i make something i'm proud of, i do not hide it in my basement and lock the door. Being creative is communicating to others, with or without words - and when someone responds, should you being pissed be the reaction?
It is always better to ask permission, but a complete ban of levels with copyright materials is not for the better. I do respect the rule however - I'll upload my levels somewhere else - so a question might be if its allowed to link to levels using copyrighted material uploaded on other sites?
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Dj Gopher on March 08, 2009, 03:01:57
It's not just that they don't want it on the web-site, it's also illegal.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on March 08, 2009, 11:14:05
Quote
....it would be non-human to just abuse someone's music without having permission. How would you feel if you spend 2 months to work on something and you're proud of? Then you learn that someone used what you made in a crappy movie or level or whatever without even asking you? I certainly would be really pissed.

I'm not sure of how I would feel. But i think that instead of being really pissed, i would be proud and glad that someone thought my work of art was good enough to use in their own work. As long as they did not claim it as their own of course. However, this was not my opinion some time ago... but i've changed my mind about that. If i make something i'm proud of, i do not hide it in my basement and lock the door.
Do you even make music, or graphics that you really are proud of?

I do, and I had an occasion that really pissed me of.

Someone had made a knytt stories level that allowed you to do dancing music using shifts and so. It was quite buggy and not that cool either. It was just a fun level to play. Someone had put a song I'm really proud on in the background and played that level badly to make it dance on my music. This person did so wtihout my permission nor the permission of the person who made the level. I really didn't liked it at all. Tried even to get it off using youtube's privacy infrigment, but they didn't wanted to remove it.

And I'm really not the only person who feels like this. It occasionally happens that when I have made a song and someone asks me for permission to use it in their work that I say no. But I usually have another song or am willing to make something equally so they don't go home empty handed. Not to mention that some songs are actually licensed. Meaning that its illegal to use them anyway.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lingon on March 08, 2009, 12:24:23
Quote
....it would be non-human to just abuse someone's music without having permission. How would you feel if you spend 2 months to work on something and you're proud of? Then you learn that someone used what you made in a crappy movie or level or whatever without even asking you? I certainly would be really pissed.

I'm not sure of how I would feel. But i think that instead of being really pissed, i would be proud and glad that someone thought my work of art was good enough to use in their own work. As long as they did not claim it as their own of course. However, this was not my opinion some time ago... but i've changed my mind about that. If i make something i'm proud of, i do not hide it in my basement and lock the door.
Do you even make music, or graphics that you really are proud of?

Why do you ask that? Even if I were not a creative person, I would still have the right to have an opinion in this matter, which makes this irrelevant.

Anyways, I understand that you can get pissed. I merely added what i thought about it. You'r not wrong, and niether am I, since its our own works were talking about - and therefore the right to decide whats ok belongs to the creator him/herself. Its just that the Internet is a big place, not just our little forum. I can understand that another random-internet guy dont ask permission for using something of mine. Its a totally different thing if he then ignores my request to stop using it - in that case im totally with you (and I would be pissed yeah).
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on March 08, 2009, 12:54:18
He indeed ignored my request too, but I was pissed before then already because I'm so proud of this song.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Emeraldfire7 on March 08, 2009, 18:14:58
would it be possible to use music from someone who says "you can use my music freely, so long as you credit me" or does this apply to all custom music?
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Razzorman on March 08, 2009, 21:54:24
If he/she said that, then you can use the music as long as you credit the person.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Kasran on March 09, 2009, 20:04:33
Sigh.

Here's the short story: you can take the song and use it however the license says you can use it. That's it.
If the license says you have to contact the artist first, then you'd better get to contacting them before you so much as release a preview video of your level with their music.
If the license says they need a royalty, then you're better off not using it.
If the license says you just have to credit them, then go bananas as long as the people who play the level know who the artist was.

That's it. Simple as that.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lingon on March 09, 2009, 21:11:53
... so a question might be if its allowed to link to levels using copyrighted material uploaded on other sites?

Am I right to assume that this rule aplies only for files stored on the forums server in USA (and also the KSLA). If this is the case it would be allowed to post a link to the file - whereas attaching the file would not be allowed. Please correct me if im wrong :)

EDIT - I just figured that, most likely, the KSLA will only be able to manage and sort uploaded ks files. If the KSLA could manage to sort links refering to files that would kind of solve the problem...
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: googoogjoob on March 09, 2009, 21:33:44
... so a question might be if its allowed to link to levels using copyrighted material uploaded on other sites?

Am I right to assume that this rule aplies only for files stored on the forums server in USA (and also the KSLA). If this is the case it would be allowed to post a link to the file - whereas attaching the file would not be allowed. Please correct me if im wrong :)

EDIT - I just figured that, most likely, the KSLA will only be able to manage and sort uploaded ks files. If the KSLA could manage to sort links refering to files that would kind of solve the problem...

No. It's still illegal to download the copyrighted material if it is still protected in whichever country you're in, and unless the servers of wherever the material is are in space or something, it's illegal to upload it, too.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Nifflas on March 11, 2009, 23:53:07
I think this is quite complicated. I have mentioned this at the previous forum, but now that the topic is gone, I'll re-write some of it with new words and add some new stuff. Copyrights last way too long, and I strongly believe in "fair use". For example, when Timberland had ripped that piece of music from Tempest, there was a comparison video at youtube that really proved that it was the same piece of music. Of course, the video then disappeared from youtube, probably because the record company or someone else who held the rights reported the video as a copyright infringement. That was definitely fair use, and it's scary when the rules can be used to prevent good journalism (either amateur or professional).

I personally don't see a problem in using music from very known artists who have already made a profit from it (the use of "What is Love" in "Don't eat the Mushroom" is awesome) if credits is given, but the laws doesn't agree with me here, and I think we should stick to following them on this forum.

Using music from an unknown artist is something I definitely don't like though. The "big" artist's work is already recognized and liked for what it is by a large audience and won't be associated to a third party level to a small indie game like Knytt Stories just because it's used in one, but the small unknown artist might actually be hurt from that the wrong associations are made with his/her music and the rest of the content (and besides, it's easy enough to get in touch with those and ask).

I'm facing the same dilemma here anyway, I'm capturing this huge photo library that I will use for sceneries in a future game (it's around 1500 photos now), and at least half of the photos I'm capturing are objects created by other people, even including sculptures. If I had full respect for their rights to control their own creations, I wouldn't have been able to do this at all, and re-using and re-cycling can be part of a creative process too.

...but again, we'll have to stay legal on the forums even if we don't always agree with the rules :)
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: AA on March 12, 2009, 11:32:45
I'm facing the same dilemma here anyway, I'm capturing this huge photo library that I will use for sceneries in a future game (it's around 1500 photos now), and at least half of the photos I'm capturing are objects created by other people, even including sculptures. If I had full respect for their rights to control their own creations, I wouldn't have been able to do this at all, and re-using and re-cycling can be part of a creative process too.

Even that may not be allowed in some countries. :O

There was some controversy about this a year ago in Italy: fortunately, it was clarified that 'cultural assets' are free to take pictures of, even for commercial purposes. However I read, in an article about this issue, that there are some restrictions on this in other countries.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lingon on March 12, 2009, 21:18:28
I'm facing the same dilemma here anyway, I'm capturing this huge photo library that I will use for sceneries in a future game (it's around 1500 photos now), and at least half of the photos I'm capturing are objects created by other people, even including sculptures. If I had full respect for their rights to control their own creations, I wouldn't have been able to do this at all, and re-using and re-cycling can be part of a creative process too.

I have come to believe its not only the persons using others original material who are bound by responsibilities. The one who creates something artistically (art, music or anything else) and choses to showcase this in any public way (where internet is almost as public as it can get), may that be commercial or not, is in my opinion obliged to be aware of the fact that this will influence others. This is the whole point of being creative in the first place. Influencing someone to the point where the person even becomes inspired to create something new out of this should be seen as the most beautiful aspect of art. By denying others to let go of the inspiration, and to be creative, you deny for others what you command for yourself. For you can, in fact, never create something truly original. YOU where inspired by someone else when YOU created your creation in the first place.

Of course there is a difference between just being inspired by a creation and stealing it. But the artist must not forget the contract he/she signs while showing his/hers work to someone else. You WILL influence others. They might influence you in return.

I think this debate has forgot the responsibility the artist should take when showcasing his/her work. You are in fact responsible for inspiring a person. This should not be seen as a bad aspect, but somehow the commercial times we live in has put a bad stamp on the people who actually allow themselves to let go of the inspiration.

You can not create open art and deny responses - just as you cant argue without listening to the person you argue with.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: googoogjoob on March 13, 2009, 01:00:18
There's a difference between taking inspiration from a work of art and actually using part of that work of art in a new work of art. For most of history, it hasn't really been possible to have an exact copy of a work of art that could be used in another work of art; if, in the seventeenth century, a painter saw someone else's painting that had this really neat new way of painting a table or something in it that they really liked, the painter would have to go back home or wherever, and then try to imitate this new style from memory. Now, in the twenty-first century, it'd just be possible for the painter to actually take an identical copy of the painted table and incorporate the exact copy into their art. Same with music; this situation can happen with photos, or audio recordings, or a scan of something, etc. As the technology allowing such reproduction becomes more commonplace, it shows just how ill-equipped copyright law is for dealing with this sort of thing. (Previous to these technologies, the only form of art that could be exactly reproduced would be writing.)
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: AmADizii on March 13, 2009, 09:15:24
lulz.
Dun use that type of stuff.
You're not allowed.
I have just ended the whole topic. I are great.
Admins should just let people put that stuff in their levels, and the forum would be fine. since you have a disclaimer and stuff, then the users of it would get something done to them
You did warn them.

I reopened and reshut this topic. I'm even betterererererer than before.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: BloxMaster on March 13, 2009, 16:01:06
Um, what?
Anyway, my two cents on this is:

If people find that everyone is simply allowed to post any content they like, then the entire forum, including staff, Nifflas, and possibly people relating to this site will be all hurt by what others have done. That isn't really fair. So when rules are in place, such as this, to protect everyone on the forum, this site, and anyone relating to the site.
It's not cruel, it's very reasonable.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lingon on March 14, 2009, 01:06:25
There's a difference between taking inspiration from a work of art and actually using part of that work of art in a new work of art.
...
In my opinion there is not an artistical difference. For example; Using a song in a game. The song inspired your creation and is now a part of it. Just as the 17:th century painting is composed out of parts of the painters influence. The fact that the song itself is not the new work of art - but merely a part of it - makes all the difference.

I still get your point. The technical tools allowing one to copy material does make STEALING easier. But artistically using material which influenced you is still the same - in my opinion :)

And guys - I hope you understand that im not at all complaining about the rule, or being upset about it. I just felt like discussing this topic since it was on the wall. Its kind of interesting actually.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Strange Darkness on March 14, 2009, 23:39:03
Well Lingon, heres more interesting (its on topic)

Since the downfall of Fallout Shelter i decided to make a new level called Scavenger.
Now this is my problem. I want to use music in the intro its called - Midnight in a Perfect world by DJ Shadow. Now if i want to use this music does that mean i have to contact DJ Shadow (very hard)? If i am giving him credit in the intro ,example ( Music - Midnight in a perfect world - DJ Shadow - Endtroducing (The album's name)) Am i allowed to do that?
Second, as you know the knytt stories editor only allows the use of two tilesets at a time.Well my first Tileset is the community one called Dumpyard. The second one however i want different things from different tilesets (example, Bokabeed's Mansion tileset, i only want the mansion) If i credit the maker of the tleset can i cut that out piece out and put it on a blank tileset? (So multiple things from a tileset in one, to make a super tileset - i will not call it my tileset because i did not make it) Also if i need to ask permission its a bit hard because didnt Bokabeed get banned from Niff Forum?

Now can SOMEONE answer that please  :S

Thanks  C)p
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: googoogjoob on March 15, 2009, 00:07:40
Depends on how the music is licensed. If it's simply copyrighted, you should contact the artist. If it's under a Creative Commons license or something that allows free usage as long as the artist is credited, you can get away with just crediting the artist.

I'm not sure about the tileset thing. To quote the download agreement:
Quote from: Nifflas, on the old forum.
By downloading a tileset from this board, you agree that:

    * You can only use the tileset in your non-profit Knytt Stories level design.
    * You credit the author of each tileset that you use.
    * You don't modify the tileset without the author's permission.
    * You don't use graphics from the tileset in your own tilesets.

I'd think it would prohibit combining two tilesets, but I'm not sure. (Since it might not necessarily involve actually altering any of the graphics.) The two-tileset limit would mean that this sort of thing would happen reasonably often, I'd think.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Strange Darkness on March 15, 2009, 01:09:18
Thanks googoogjoob for the help.

But say for the tileset, i havent modifyed the image and im not claiming the tileset for my own and im crediting the maker. Then can i?

Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on March 15, 2009, 01:30:36
Copying tiles from a tileset to your own is the same as using someone's tileset. Eg. Credit is due where necessary. The Don't use graphics in your own tileset basically means that you cannot copy one or two tiles from a tileset and then claim it to be your tileset. It would be nice if you could ask the author if he's okay with you copying it unaltered to a collection tileset, but in Bokabeeds case, if its impossible, then so be it. Crediting is always possible, so I atleast expect you to credit Bokabeed.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Strange Darkness on March 15, 2009, 02:40:17
Thank you LP Chip that answers everything! C)p
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: NRA13 on March 19, 2009, 21:15:35
Still, you'd have to be a big jerk to fine anyone for using their song in a amateur, nonprofit level... <_<
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: googoogjoob on March 19, 2009, 21:38:08
Still, you'd have to be a big jerk to fine anyone for using their song in a amateur, nonprofit level... <_<

The RIAA has gone after 12-year-olds, dead people, and people without computers. Being a jerk is not a problem for them.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: AClockworkLemon on April 11, 2009, 03:14:33
Whatr happens if you wanna use a tileset , but you can't contact the person, because he hasn't logged in for ages? (I'm trying to get permission from Drakkan to use "Civilisatin Zero" from frozen mountain 2, but he hasent been on for about a month)

Any ideas???????
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: googoogjoob on April 11, 2009, 03:56:28
The "Civilization Zero" tileset wasn't made by Drakkan, it was made by vdweller. (Note the credit bar at the bottom of the tileset.) vdweller released this tileset in the Public Tilesets section of the old forum, meaning that anyone is free to use it so long as he's credited.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Pumpkinbot on April 11, 2009, 08:23:11
The RIAA has gone after 12-year-olds, dead people, and people without computers. Being a jerk is not a problem for them.
Wow, the RIAA fails at life. <_< *sued*

Seriously, though, I think we should change the rules to, "A tileset is free to use unless it explicitly says in the credit bar, 'Do not use.'" Because, how many times has someone taken a tilese they didn't know they weren't allowed to use?
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Purple Pineapple on April 11, 2009, 08:41:04
Seriously, though, I think we should change the rules to, "A tileset is free to use unless it explicitly says in the credit bar, 'Do not use.'" Because, how many times has someone taken a tilese they didn't know they weren't allowed to use?
Many times. And it is aggrivating. Unfortunately though, some people poeple wont see that. So, they don't put "do not use," and get angry when someone assumes it's ok to use it. Besides, sometimes you don't have enough room left in the info bar to put "do not use." :P2
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: googoogjoob on April 11, 2009, 08:52:54
I can think of several times wherein a user has posted a level using Nifflas's A Strange Dream tilesets (and sometimes music, but that's not labelled as clearly), apparently totally missing the very clear warning at the bottom of the tilesets. Nothing is foolproof.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Pumpkinbot on April 11, 2009, 22:17:13
I can think of several times wherein a user has posted a level using Nifflas's A Strange Dream tilesets (and sometimes music, but that's not labelled as clearly), apparently totally missing the very clear warning at the bottom of the tilesets. Nothing is foolproof.
I guess...:/
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Didriking on May 18, 2009, 10:55:01
So, here's another question... What about Nifflas music that wasn't used in games? I mean, the music from his albums, like "En skog, m?rklig och djup" and "Cityscapes"? Are those strictly for the albums, or would Nifflas be okey with us using them in KS levels?
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on May 21, 2009, 19:12:07
So, here's another question... What about Nifflas music that wasn't used in games? I mean, the music from his albums, like "En skog, m?rklig och djup" and "Cityscapes"? Are those strictly for the albums, or would Nifflas be okey with us using them in KS levels?

That depends on what Nifflas thinks about it.

I think its better to ask this when you get in a certain situation to ask what speciffic song you want for what speciffic purpose.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Bored2death on May 22, 2009, 23:28:12
I think a good idea would be to make a link to a place where we can post anything we find that is free to use and is not subject to copyright, including tilesets, music, sound effects, custom objects, etc. Plus, when anybody makes any of these things, and want to share them, they can post them on this website for others to use. Everything entered into the website might need to go through the Moderators, first, though, so that they can double check the copyright (as long as they feel like doing this, of course. I wouldn't want to give them extra work to do, maybe we could just have a second forum member check it and have a posted by, double checked by spot on this site, and if anyone posts copyrighted material they won't be allowed to post any material on it again).
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Purple Pineapple on May 23, 2009, 01:21:55
No material at all for one mistake seems a bit harsh. Suppose they didn't read the rules and therefore don't know about copyright.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Bored2death on May 23, 2009, 03:10:20
We could make it a warning, I guess, but we also want to make sure that those who use it thinking it is safe to use don't get in trouble with the law if its not. Plus, notice how you will have at least one person double checking it. So, supposedly, at least one of you will know the rules.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: AhhCobras on May 26, 2009, 01:34:10
Please excuse me if this is not the proper place for this post, but it seemed as good as any. I have seen a lot of discussion over the topic of copyrighted material and such, and it is kind of scaring me away from posting my own level. So my question is two-fold;

1. Regarding tilesets, I read something about not using default game data (tilesets, music, etc.) in your own mod. I assume I am reading that wrong so I will just ask directly. Is it fair to take a default set by Nifflas, and use it alone, or retextured/recolored as long as he is given credit for the original?

2. My level is based on Alice in Wonderland, an IP which is used in many stories and games one way or another. The way I'm making I want it as faithful as possible to the book, as such her name is actually Alice, I'm using quotes from the book, etc. So since this was written over a hundred years ago, does it fall in with fair use, or can I at least use the idea if I put in a credit about it being based on AIW?  (Please say "yes"  :S)

Again please forgive me for total noobishness, but I thought this would be the best place to ask. Thank you for any help.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: googoogjoob on May 26, 2009, 01:42:07
1. Regarding tilesets, I read something about not using default game data (tilesets, music, etc.) in your own mod. I assume I am reading that wrong so I will just ask directly. Is it fair to take a default set by Nifflas, and use it alone, or retextured/recolored as long as he is given credit for the original?

The default sets are free for everyone to use. However, you need to directly ask the tileset's author if you want to modify them for any purpose.

2. My level is based on Alice in Wonderland, an IP which is used in many stories and games one way or another. The way I'm making I want it as faithful as possible to the book, as such her name is actually Alice, I'm using quotes from the book, etc. So since this was written over a hundred years ago, does it fall in with fair use, or can I at least use the idea if I put in a credit about it being based on AIW?  (Please say "yes"  :S)

Alice in Wonderland isn't just fair use, it's so old (144 years old, to be precise) it's public domain. You can do whatever you want with it, but be careful not to use, for example, illustrations done for a version published in 1980, which still would be under copyright.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: AhhCobras on May 26, 2009, 03:18:57
Quote
Alice in Wonderland isn't just fair use, it's so old (144 years old, to be precise) it's public domain. You can do whatever you want with it, but be careful not to use, for example, illustrations done for a version published in 1980, which still would be under copyright.

Awesome, thank you sooo much! :nuts: This is what I figured, but didn't want to put it up just to be taken down. And I plan on doing hand drawn cutscenes, and making my own music if I use any so that shouldn't be a problem. Thanks a lot, now I'm really excited! C)p C)p
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Dandelion on May 26, 2009, 03:42:55
Is it fair to take a default set by Nifflas, and use it alone, or retextured/recolored as long as he is given credit for the original?
Yes. Nifflas posted on the old forum that everyone was allowed to remix his tilesets. Just make sure they are actually by him, as not all of the default sets are. You also can't remix the sets that appear only in the expansion pack levels. They are reserved for those levels only, and no one is allowed to use or edit them but Nifflas.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on May 28, 2009, 21:57:55
Is it fair to take a default set by Nifflas, and use it alone, or retextured/recolored as long as he is given credit for the original?
Yes. Nifflas posted on the old forum that everyone was allowed to remix his tilesets. Just make sure they are actually by him, as not all of the default sets are. You also can't remix the sets that appear only in the expansion pack levels. They are reserved for those levels only, and no one is allowed to use or edit them but Nifflas.

... unless ofcource you have Nifflas' permission.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: AhhCobras on May 29, 2009, 04:26:08
Well, the only one I've messed with so far was said quick tileset template, so I assume that was one kind of made for player made material. And I did see one stating "do not use this tileset", I've been trying to pay close attention to the little credits down there so I think I'll be okay.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on May 29, 2009, 08:34:09
Well, the only one I've messed with so far was said quick tileset template, so I assume that was one kind of made for player made material. And I did see one stating "do not use this tileset", I've been trying to pay close attention to the little credits down there so I think I'll be okay.

Ah, the template one is actually a starting reference for people to make their own tilesets.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: special_d on July 12, 2009, 23:35:41
This really has very little to do with the topic and I understand the legality of certain issues doesn't necessarily reflect the views of the forum members, but I'm sick of living in an age where a person can get sued for anything.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Evil on July 13, 2009, 01:17:24
This really has very little to do with the topic and I understand the legality of certain issues doesn't necessarily reflect the views of the forum members, but I'm sick of living in an age where a person can get sued for anything.

Even creative commons cant save you in court D:

But I guess you can say its free promotion :)
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: googoogjoob on July 13, 2009, 03:00:33
Even creative commons cant save you in court D:

...with CC, you're unlikely to be in court in the first place.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: lilmanjs16 on July 30, 2009, 02:46:45
I'm all for respecting copyrights and stuff, but it really hurts when somebody no matter how famous or not, gets their song(s) used in a level without credit or the maker of the level not trying to contact the person who made the music. travel eastward is a good example. a very good ambient music artist, biosphere, has a song used, and so do several other artists and they are not credited at all.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lunar_Tick on August 16, 2009, 22:51:17
So the fact that there's no commercial benefit, no profit (etc.) gained by making a knytt level doesn't affect anything?
Wha wha wha?
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on August 18, 2009, 22:56:25
So the fact that there's no commercial benefit, no profit (etc.) gained by making a knytt level doesn't affect anything?
Wha wha wha?

Indeed. Most people would probably say that its insane to sue, but since it is still considered illegal, they can win that case. It are often those people that value money over moral that will sue you, but unfortunatelly, those people still exist.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Salmoneous on August 19, 2009, 11:39:01
I don't think that copyright is such a big deal, when it comes to ks levels. As long as the artist/s get a rightfull credit then its cool. And its just a ks level, nit doesn't matter. The artist/s would never find out (unless the artist is on the forum) and even if the artist/s would find out why would he/she/they care about it other then "oh, look! my music is in this level. cool!".
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lizzaroro on November 08, 2009, 11:52:30
I have no words to describe this. Either I delete a nearly an entire years worth of level making or I ignore the rules and just upload it. It's not like if I upload a level with the ambiance and music from other games, SWAT helicopters will come down and arrest me then take me to court for this. Now I feel too scared to even upload the level.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Dataflashsabot on November 08, 2009, 12:26:38
Even if you just upload it to mediafire and post it in niffchat, please don't delete it! Having said that, try and find free equivilants for the audio you used, and at least make sure everyone is credited.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on November 08, 2009, 15:28:19
I could say: you better had thought of that before you started, but that obviously will not do any good. The only thing I can say is this: You should not post it in a public place such as a forum because that is one of the ways those people will find you, and our rules do not allow you to post it here. Uploading it somewhere and sharing that to friends is acceptable though. I still wouldn't do that, but since you worked so hard on it, that's an option.

Alternatively you could change all copyrighted content for home made stuff that looks alike. Chances are less big that you get sued for doing a parody. (though those chances still exist)
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lizzaroro on November 09, 2009, 06:01:00
This should have been mentioned on the game itself, When I upload it I will at least credit the Companies, and give names.

If it was a commercial game mod I was making I would get permission to use it, but this is a level for a freeware indie game.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: minmay on November 10, 2009, 18:50:43
You mention nearly an entire year's worth of levelmaking.  That implies you used tilesets from another game.  Did you seriously not think of that before you made the level?
Furthermore, it is mentioned on the editor's title screen that you should get permission before using content you did not make yourself.

Either way, even if you did use tilesets, you could draw something very similar, with the same tile layout.  It's a sneaky jerk move if you claim it to be original, but it will keep things legal.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lizzaroro on November 11, 2009, 06:39:04
Since when did I ever say I stole tilesets... Read before you post...
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: SiamJai on November 11, 2009, 09:17:01
Since when did I ever say I stole tilesets... Read before you post...

Minmay used the word "implies", and "even if you did use tilesets", meaning that it was an assumption on his part, not taken straight from your post. He actually offered advice that could help you.


This should have been mentioned on the game itself

At least acknowledge when you are proven wrong. Like Minmay pointed out, the KS Editor - the software that you presumably used for your levelmaking - has the following text right on the opening page:

"Custom levels can also contain their own custom graphics and music files, but care should be taken to obtain the consent of the original author(s) to allow their use in the custom levels." (Emphasis mine)

If that doesn't spell it out clearly enough, I don't know what does. You have no-one but yourself to blame and all your options have been outlined already.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on November 11, 2009, 12:19:42
I'm not saying that this is the case, but if you originally thought of: I'll just ignore the warning and deal with it when the level is ready, and hope that I can bend the rules somehow: no, that won't happen. If you originally thought, if that happens, I'll just have had a nice time making the level, then do so.

Note again: this is just a possible way.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lizzaroro on November 12, 2009, 06:11:19
I was planning on contacting Valve about using their music at one point, But the huge problems are big companies like that might just ignore you. I know Valve would probably respond, but other companies like Lucasarts, I posted a thread on how to get a game to work and no one responded. Now I understand the deal.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on November 12, 2009, 09:14:55
If you tried to contact them, but got no response, save the info about how you contacted them (text and if posted, url to post), and you can say that you tried your  best and use the content for that particular level.

In the credits you then mention that its their content, and that you tried to contact them but got no response.

If they suddenly respond that you're using their content, and don't want it, you will have to remove the level though. That's just a risk you have to take.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Gorfinhofin on November 13, 2009, 00:35:46
Really? I could do that? Joy!
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: minmay on November 13, 2009, 03:32:53
It'd be illegal, but you could do it.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on November 13, 2009, 08:30:50
It'd be illegal, but you could do it.

Technically its not illegal. The copyright is about them having the control of what happens with their created stuff. This can be transfered by a contract to other people, which opens up the possibility that you might be able to use content from others if you ask them.

If someone doesn't respond to your question, you can see this as: hey, they didn't say I couldn't. Companies often don't reply if they are okay with something, and they'll reply if they're not. Its timesaving (though its unethical) for them.

Just make sure you ask (not just say you did) and give it some time so they have the time to respond.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: minmay on November 14, 2009, 17:52:51
Technically its not illegal.

Technically, it's a civil offense in the U.S., and a criminal one in many other nations.  In some, it's legal, but it shows a blatant lack of respect regardless.

If someone doesn't respond to your question, you can see this as: hey, they didn't say I couldn't.

That justification falls entirely flat.  If you get no response, or the license isn't specified, then by default you can't use it.  (Again, this is how copyright law works in most, not all, nations.)
Let's say you contact an artist, asking to use their work; you wait a week for a response, and don't get one.  So you go ahead and use it, because of your justification above.  And now after your KS level has been around for another week, the artist finds out.  Turns out he was on a two-week vacation and didn't have access to his email/other contact method.  Turns out he's pretty ticked about your level, too, and since he's not a jerk he doesn't sue but he does get LPChip to take down your level.  Now one person is upset, one is depressed, and one is annoyed.
As opposed to the option of NOT using said content, which, at worst, will result in the loss of one KS level - which probably would have been a pretty mediocre one anyway, what with using that other game's graphics and all.

That's almost a worst-case scenario, of course, and it's much more likely that the artist would never find out.  It's still illegal, however.  Were I a mod, I would delete that level as soon as I found it, and warn its author about doing such things in the future.  But I'm not a mod, because of things like that: I'd enforce the Forum Rules instead of the LPChip Rules.  Nobody wants that.  Well, except me.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lizzaroro on November 17, 2009, 09:35:51
Did you just say my level sucks?

Anyway LPChip, I cannot figure out what to say. I don't wanna look stupid to the company.  :oops:
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on November 17, 2009, 14:06:56
Be simple and to the point:

Dear sir, madam,

I'm making a level for a game called Knytt Stories, and I would very much like to use music/graphics that comes with your game"insert name here". Can I have permission to do so? I can give you more information about the game and the level if you need that.

Yours,

"your name"
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: minmay on November 17, 2009, 17:14:59
Did you just say my level sucks?

I don't think I did, but I admit that I have low expectations for it.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lizzaroro on November 18, 2009, 00:49:00
Ah, thanks LPChip!

Did you just say my level sucks?

I don't think I did, but I admit that I have low expectations for it.

That's dumb logic. You think it is bad because I used other peoples Ambiance and Music, I also hate that stupid thing you said where I stole artwork, are you trying to say I suck at art too?
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: BloxMaster on November 18, 2009, 00:54:59
Hey now, no need to be hateful! Minmay is just saying that you shouldn't rely on one thing to make your level good. I can totally understand what he means. Minmay may say things in an off manor, but he actually has good points if you look past the 'minmay must mean I suck'. Please see more to minmay's posts, he has good points and NO-WHERE did he ever accuse you, so why are you bashing him? Please think a little more before you post things like that again. :/
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: minmay on November 18, 2009, 01:43:22
and NO-WHERE did he ever accuse you

Er, actually, I did.  Really, what I said was basically a massive "TAKE THAT" against people who don't make their own content for KS levels.  I mean, you CAN make a level that feels fresh and new and professional and all that without making your own tilesets/music, but I've only seen it done a few times.
Obviously this is all opinion, however; moreso, it's thoroughly off-topic.  If there's more to say, take it to the PM system.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lizzaroro on November 18, 2009, 05:28:18
More like Opinion and flaming.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: AA on November 18, 2009, 10:14:43
On the one hand, 'borrowing' content from other games usually grants your game more visibility than it would if you used original artwork/music: this is because said content is widely recognized (oh, it's the music from <that game>) and/or proven to be good. Even in the commercial world there are similar phenomena, where license-based games get more visibility regardless of their quality.

On the other hand, using ready-made content for your game, as long as you ask for permission first, is fine in general if it helps creating it faster and/or if you think it's necessary to achieve the goal you set when planning it. There's plenty of fan-games that are also good in their own right; of course, there are also mediocre fan-games which overshadow genuinely better games with original and/or 'bad' art, but in the world of free games this is less of an issue, at least in my personal experience.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lizzaroro on November 27, 2009, 22:21:07
Allright, the company I emailed hasn't replied in a week. In the meantime it gives me free access to use it, until they finally reply.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: BloxMaster on November 27, 2009, 23:35:08
Never ever does a lack of response mean 'I can use this because they didn't say I couldn't'.
Instead of using it, you should probably try finding a free (as in free to use) alternative. As in, spend your time looking for something you can use, instead of waiting for the company to reply that you can use what you wanted. If you look hard enough, you may find something better (or as good) as what you can't use, and you can avoid the hassles altogether. If a company doesn't respond it's probably a 'no', or a 'we didn't see it yet'.

In short, it's always a NO unless specifically stated otherwise. No assuming.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lizzaroro on November 28, 2009, 00:10:47
I think that was LPChip's advice for me to use it if they don't respond, but delete the level if they say no.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: minmay on November 28, 2009, 01:08:35
Which is rather strange, honestly.  You're pretty much getting the worst of both worlds: you'll be doing something illegal, AND if they say no you'll lose all the "hard work" you speak of.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lizzaroro on November 28, 2009, 07:56:37
Oh my god here he comes again. Screw it, i'm leaving this thread. Minmay is just going to keep bugging me with his stupid annoying little kid imagination.

Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Evil on November 28, 2009, 09:18:36
Waaiiiiiittt.

How come when people upload copyrighted music to youtube, how come they never get in trouble? D:

and
Still, you'd have to be a big jerk to fine anyone for using their song in a amateur, nonprofit level... <_<

The RIAA has gone after 12-year-olds, dead people, and people without computers. Being a jerk is not a problem for them.

ah, here it is: http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/6873.cfm and 8 year old http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2007/06/lawsuit-riaa-li/
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Razzorman on November 28, 2009, 10:55:18
Oh my god here he comes again. Screw it, i'm leaving this thread. Minmay is just going to keep bugging me with his stupid annoying little kid imagination.
Feel free to break the law then, I guess. If you don't want to listen to people trying to help you just because you don't like what they are saying, then why should anyone help you at all?
minimay is right. You WOULD be breaking the law, and if your level would risk being taken down. This has nothing to do with opinion or imagination.


How come when people upload copyrighted music to youtube, how come they never get in trouble? D:
Youtube takes down hundreds of videos every day for copyright infringement. The reason that videos with copyrighted music stay up for so long is because the companies that own the copyright haven't found them yet.
Youtube doesn't look for those videos themselves, and the copyright holders don't have the time to go up on Youtube to see if someone is using their stuff.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lizzaroro on November 28, 2009, 12:47:41
Oh my god here he comes again. Screw it, i'm leaving this thread. Minmay is just going to keep bugging me with his stupid annoying little kid imagination.
Feel free to break the law then, I guess. If you don't want to listen to people trying to help you, just because you don't like what they are saying, then why should anyone help you at all?
minimay is right. You WOULD be breaking the law, and if your level would risk being taken down. This has nothing to do with opinion or imagination.

He wasn't warning me, he was telling me it was a bad thing and also saying my level was a piece of crap at the same time. That's why I ignored him. I would have taken advice if he wasn't saying things like "Your level has stuff u didn't make? your level is crap!!!" you don't have to say that, it's really easy to just say something this useless flaming. Might as well make this level private then, or.

Another alternative could be removing the music, is the ambiance allright to use?
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Razzorman on November 28, 2009, 13:11:02
Another alternative could be removing the music, is the ambiance allright to use?
Not if its copyrighted. Ambiance  shouldn't be too hard to find online though. Just check out freesound.org. (http://www.freesound.org/)
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lizzaroro on November 29, 2009, 00:52:01
Another alternative could be removing the music, is the ambiance allright to use?
Not if its copyrighted. Ambiance  shouldn't be too hard to find online though. Just check out freesound.org. (http://www.freesound.org/)

Hmm... couldn't find anything for a good future atmosphere.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: minmay on November 29, 2009, 01:49:09
Ambient sounds are pretty easy to make yourself using a VST.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Exp HP on November 29, 2009, 02:30:01
That's exactly what I do to create unusual BG noise, since I neither have a good working microphone nor a functional galactic cruiser.

I'm attaching some [rather lame] examples and releasing them as public domain.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Saml on November 29, 2009, 04:31:30
I have an A443 N.V.V.A battlecruiser in full working order if anyone wants to borrow it.
Specs:

-Size: 4220 meters x 200 meters x 410 meters

-Drive: StarWorksTM unipolar compressed ion drive, class 232

-Reactor: BMNtechTM GF12 (high-Freem version) with an added 4 output slots so you can extend the weapon baseline (I haven't used those yet, they're still open)

-Defense fields: 2 NakahamaTM turtleshells and a supplementary custom VFP array

-Hull: Triple cured vorilium with a few SX-TT alloy patches

-Weapons: Six KaiserTM eight-meter destabilized fast-pulse quasers and a 12 meter triple-barrel silicon-plasma cannon.

As I said before, happy to lend  it out to anyone who needs to record anything.

Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Evil on November 29, 2009, 07:33:45
Would taking screenshots from music videos be considered illegal too?
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: chipset on November 29, 2009, 17:37:02
Considering that the music itself is most likely copyrighted, I would think that the music videos themselves would also be copyrighted.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on November 29, 2009, 18:39:17
Its illegal to capture the audio and video from existing material. The license that comes with the material will tell you that its for viewing/listening purposes only and that no copy in any form whatsoever is allowed.

Someone thought to be smart and recorded music from an internet radio and offered those recording for free download. He still got caught for copyright violations and had to remove all his stuff and pay a fine.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lizzaroro on November 30, 2009, 05:34:03
A lot of the stuff I got was extracted with GCFscape or XWE.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Lizzaroro on December 03, 2009, 00:26:45
Tell ya what, I'll pick out three users, PM them and let them beta test my level once it's finished, and see what they think. I used the Ambiance from those games because it best describes the Xorons and their planet.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: pumpkin on January 21, 2010, 05:05:32
AHEM i am a noob! anyways everyone ignore my "Tilesets/COs" post, i feel stupid now. :moody:
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: pez on September 15, 2010, 05:30:15
Quote
....it would be non-human to just abuse someone's music without having permission. How would you feel if you spend 2 months to work on something and you're proud of? Then you learn that someone used what you made in a crappy movie or level or whatever without even asking you? I certainly would be really pissed.

I'm not sure of how I would feel. But i think that instead of being really pissed, i would be proud and glad that someone thought my work of art was good enough to use in their own work. As long as they did not claim it as their own of course. However, this was not my opinion some time ago... but i've changed my mind about that. If i make something i'm proud of, i do not hide it in my basement and lock the door.
Do you even make music, or graphics that you really are proud of?

I do, and I had an occasion that really pissed me of.

Someone had made a knytt stories level that allowed you to do dancing music using shifts and so. It was quite buggy and not that cool either. It was just a fun level to play. Someone had put a song I'm really proud on in the background and played that level badly to make it dance on my music. This person did so wtihout my permission nor the permission of the person who made the level. I really didn't liked it at all. Tried even to get it off using youtube's privacy infrigment, but they didn't wanted to remove it.

And I'm really not the only person who feels like this. It occasionally happens that when I have made a song and someone asks me for permission to use it in their work that I say no. But I usually have another song or am willing to make something equally so they don't go home empty handed. Not to mention that some songs are actually licensed. Meaning that its illegal to use them anyway.
What's your problem? I don't think anyone would agree with you. If someone releases a song for free and some guy puts that song as the background music to one of his youtube videos, he wouldn't not be pissed and nobody would complain to youtube and get it taken down for copyright infringement. That's insane why would you do that?

The important thing is for art to be created. If free stuff you've released is a part of someone's creative vision for a project, and they work it into what they create, something positive has happened. You got pissed off because he didn't ask your permission, making you egotistical (my imagined rights override any creative vision you have) and petty (Ask real nice and maybe I'll let you).

(I do notice you're an admin but I hope admin action won't interfere with what are, I assure you, honest sentiments from someone who hopes to get involved in the KS community - I just discovered the game)
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on September 15, 2010, 10:49:52
I forgive you. You obviously haven't seen the movie in question on youtube that thankfully has been removed now.

The biggest issue that I have with this, is that my musical skills are to be considered professional. The movie displayed a very childish movie that really sucked (got lots of 1 star ratings) and it mentioned my name and my music in it, as if I work with people that make this kind of stuff a lot. This is bad for my image and it could easily prevent professional organizations from contacting me for a music deal. Perhaps its just me, but I really doubt that people who are good at something will like to see their work being associated with something really bad. Ever made a very awesome graphic, that is put in a sucky game? Picture a lo-fi game with no graphics, but only single color shapes, and suddenly you see a very beautiful tree that you made and published on the internet on deviant art. The guy does give you credit, but never contacted you about the usage. Aren't you at least a bit offended by such action?
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Yukabacera on September 15, 2010, 15:17:44
I forgive you. You obviously haven't seen the movie in question on youtube that thankfully has been removed now.

The biggest issue that I have with this, is that my musical skills are to be considered professional. The movie displayed a very childish movie that really sucked (got lots of 1 star ratings) and it mentioned my name and my music in it, as if I work with people that make this kind of stuff a lot. This is bad for my image and it could easily prevent professional organizations from contacting me for a music deal. Perhaps its just me, but I really doubt that people who are good at something will like to see their work being associated with something really bad. Ever made a very awesome graphic, that is put in a sucky game? Picture a lo-fi game with no graphics, but only single color shapes, and suddenly you see a very beautiful tree that you made and published on the internet on deviant art. The guy does give you credit, but never contacted you about the usage. Aren't you at least a bit offended by such action?

*sigh* No, at least I wouldn't. So what if it's not a quality game or video or whatever? Is your work so important and recognized that it can be used in only the biggest, most important high-budget games and such? And anyway, he gave you credit. If he claimed it was his, I would be offended. If he did not credit anyone, I'd assume he forgot (or that he did not know WHO was actually the original author: perhaps he got it from some forum or somesuch) and simply contact him about it, let him know it was mine, keep on making games, yours truly, that kind of stuff. If someone uses your work in a project of theirs, it means that they respect you and think your work is cool, not that they're evil hungry leeches who want to steal your stuff.

Also, even single color shapes and that beautiful tree are graphics. Graphics are graphics, no matter how butt-ugly they are. A game with no graphics is a text adventure, though some DO have graphics.

=|=
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on September 15, 2010, 16:01:06
The entire point I want to make is: Since I feel offended by something like this, others might too, and for that reason you should always ask.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: minmay on February 14, 2011, 17:02:50
Art is up to the artist, but the artist needs to understand that he cannot enforce the rules he writes.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: 1020/Collen on February 15, 2011, 03:49:20
So, technically you could use music that isn't copyrighted?
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on February 15, 2011, 10:23:15
So, technically you could use music that isn't copyrighted?
Everything that is created automatically has copyright until it expires (which is a long time). Copyright protected material sometimes can be used in your projects if their attached license allows it.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Comhon on May 13, 2012, 13:15:24
I was thinking about making a level, which would have the same plot, as one old pc dos game (The Legend of Kyrandia), even I wouldn't make it 100% same. Do you think it would be fine?
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Healy on May 13, 2012, 22:35:23
Does it use the same characters as the old game as well? If not, I'd say go for it! Plots have always been in a fishy gray area as far as copyright is concerned.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on May 13, 2012, 22:39:12
I agree with Healy. Unless you're talking about a story that is so well known that everybody will recognize that story, you should be able to use the plot if you change enough details. In this case, you will be "inspired" by that story. If you want to give credits, you can say you were inspired by this dosgame.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Comhon on May 13, 2012, 22:57:30
I agree with Healy. Unless you're talking about a story that is so well known that everybody will recognize that story, you should be able to use the plot if you change enough details. In this case, you will be "inspired" by that story. If you want to give credits, you can say you were inspired by this dosgame.
That's great. I'll try to make it!
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: PhoenixTigerz on February 14, 2014, 16:36:35
 What about like creating derivative work on to tilesets?
 Say for instance I want to add a Super Mario bros level into my level and I want  to use the original graphics. However because the block/sprites aren't 24x24 pixels and that resizing them makes it wonky and distorted. I decide to spend time and draw the blocks and sprite on to the tileset with my own art style so it will appear personally satisfying on a 24x24 grid.   
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: AA on February 14, 2014, 19:36:40
I suppose if the tiles weren't taken straight from the game and resized it (unlike in Knyttoid  X)) could fall into Fair Use, but I'm no lawyer and I'm not American. I'm sure you'd get away with it (even some small commercial games do), but of course that's not enough for this Forum.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on February 14, 2014, 23:05:03
It is a really complex matter. When you are talking about an iconic character, even if the sizes are different and you made the art entirely yourself, it is still considered a rip-off, and the original author can claim that you've stolen his idea which falls under the copyright act.

Mario is a very iconic character for 2 reasons.
1. Almost everyone will know who Mario is and will be able to identify him.
2. Almost everyone who knows Mario will also link it directly to Nintendo, the same way Sonic is linked to Sega.

So the problem is, that when you use such iconic character, people will automatically assume Nintendo was involved somewhere in the process of making it, or even worse, think that it was made by Nintendo.

This last one is where most lawsuits come from, especially if the end product is of poor quality.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: PhoenixTigerz on February 15, 2014, 18:01:03
It is a really complex matter. When you are talking about an iconic character, even if the sizes are different and you made the art entirely yourself, it is still considered a rip-off, and the original author can claim that you've stolen his idea which falls under the copyright act.

Mario is a very iconic character for 2 reasons.
1. Almost everyone will know who Mario is and will be able to identify him.
2. Almost everyone who knows Mario will also link it directly to Nintendo, the same way Sonic is linked to Sega.

So the problem is, that when you use such iconic character, people will automatically assume Nintendo was involved somewhere in the process of making it, or even worse, think that it was made by Nintendo.

This last one is where most lawsuits come from, especially if the end product is of poor quality.
  Thanks you two, but LPchip. Does this apply to both the character and the graphics of the specific game? I might have read it incorrectly but it post seems to only apply to the character.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on February 16, 2014, 00:49:12
Yes, it applies to both the graphics of mario and the graphics of the character, but also the reference to the characteristics of mario. An italian plumber named mario that always has the same style of clothing.

But the iconic status of the Mario character is far more important than the graphics of the game other than mario. As in, you'll get earlier in trouble if you have an iconic character in your game, than that the graphics look a lot like that of mario. Although the overall artstyle in Mario is pretty iconic too, especially the boxes with a ? in it that spew coins when hit. The other graphics are pretty common which you might be able to dispute in a lawsuit to be original.

I guess the biggest question here would be what exactly your end product is and how it is available to others as well as where credits are given and taken.

If you make a fan-game that follows the original closely, that no one needs to pay money for, and has a section available that everyone guaranteed will see that explains that the original graphics and concept were made by Nintendo, and that it is not at all your intention to do any harm to them, it is called acceptable to most people and the chances are slim that you'll get into any trouble.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Salmoneous on February 17, 2014, 00:42:22
What about like creating derivative work on to tilesets?
 Say for instance I want to add a Super Mario bros level into my level and I want  to use the original graphics. However because the block/sprites aren't 24x24 pixels and that resizing them makes it wonky and distorted. I decide to spend time and draw the blocks and sprite on to the tileset with my own art style so it will appear personally satisfying on a 24x24 grid.   

Okay worst that can happen is someone representing nintendo tells you to remove the mario graphics from your level, they can't take further legal actions against you unless you refuse. But that is extremely unlikely to happen, next to impossible I'd say.
So lets say someone from Nintendo see your level, which doesn't seem that likely. I think your 'secret' is safe with this Nintendo employ either case. You see, nobody is going to go to upper management with this and have it directed to some layer who will send you some upset email. It's just not worth the time and the nintendo employ who saw it will more likely get yelled at for wasting that time.
Then we all see a lot of Nintendo graphics and characters that isn't done by nintendo that is up, right, I'm not the only one? So I figure that if there is anything licensed to Nintendo in another product, that's where they act but your level is not a product, it's just a  project nobody makes money on without a broad audience. So imagine what Nintendo must give in to legally deal with you for this bullshit nothingness to get that level down, it could cost them shitmuch. So I'd say go ahead and make what you want.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on February 17, 2014, 00:48:52
@Salmoneous, its clear from your post that you haven't actually studied laws. So it is not nice to say something like this because its not entirely true.

If a company wants they can go much further than just ask you to remove your graphics because by using them you are violating their rights. Some companies are nice and will just ask you to remove them, some companies however (escpecially with the financial crisis going on) will try and sue you to get money from you.

As I pointed out earlier, given this specific case, it is likely that Nintendo won't pursue any actions against this, but it is still a risk that you are going to take or not. In any way, this forum will not be responsible for any lawsuits if it happens.

And Salmoneous, big companies such as Nintendo actually do have employees who actively search for this kind of content using search queries etc. So they will find the level eventually, but when its free and credits are properly given, they likely will see more costs than benefits from doing a lawsuit.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Salmoneous on February 17, 2014, 11:51:18
If a company wants they can go much further than just ask you to remove your graphics because by using them you are violating their rights. Some companies are nice and will just ask you to remove them, some companies however (escpecially with the financial crisis going on) will try and sue you to get money from you.

are you sure? I mean they can take it further if he don't remove the graphics but can they do much more before that? Can they sue? How would they even have a case if he made his own version of their graphics, he could just deny the infringement. What I think of is why Nintendo would pursue him. Financial crisis? Because of the crisis they would waste resources on this? Or be more aggressive? I think I miss your point.  About Nintendo searching the internet, I didnt think of that, but it wouldn't come up if we didn't talk about it like here haha. What I don't get is how this would benefit Nintendo, not that they have the power to deal with it.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: AA on February 17, 2014, 14:11:27
About Nintendo searching the internet, I didnt think of that, but it wouldn't come up if we didn't talk about it like here haha. What I don't get is how this would benefit Nintendo, not that they have the power to deal with it.

Well, making a no-profit fan project shut down usually doesn't benefit the original creator much: it could be argued that it may negatively affect the popularity of their intellectual property (in many ways, not just by making it look bad by - say - creating a horrible game with it). It's probably more of a situation where they can't be bothered to look into every single copyright infriengement case in detail: they just go after the most popular ones, or use automatic systems where available (like the YouTube Content Id system).

For that I'm 99% sure a Super Mario themed, completely no-profit Knytt Stories level nowadays would go unnoticed by Nintendo, because chances of it becoming reasonably popular are really slim. Things would change significantly if it were used to make money, because part of it would have to be given to Nintendo (excluding cases of fair use, I guess), but in either case they could threaten to sue anyway just because looking into it would be a worse waste of time than just exercising their rights and be done with it. :P
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on February 17, 2014, 14:51:30
If a company wants they can go much further than just ask you to remove your graphics because by using them you are violating their rights. Some companies are nice and will just ask you to remove them, some companies however (escpecially with the financial crisis going on) will try and sue you to get money from you.

are you sure? I mean they can take it further if he don't remove the graphics but can they do much more before that? Can they sue? How would they even have a case if he made his own version of their graphics, he could just deny the infringement. What I think of is why Nintendo would pursue him. Financial crisis? Because of the crisis they would waste resources on this? Or be more aggressive? I think I miss your point.  About Nintendo searching the internet, I didnt think of that, but it wouldn't come up if we didn't talk about it like here haha. What I don't get is how this would benefit Nintendo, not that they have the power to deal with it.

Yes I'm sure. The only thing you need to sue someone is claiming something is true. I don't say Nintendo would win a lawsuit, but they can drag you to court just like that. Once you are in court, then the real issue becomes a question, like are the graphics made going to be reflected as being Mario. A judge will look to the whole picture, but given that we're talking about Mario here, the judge will also say: Everyone knows Mario, so he will not fall for saying you didn't know about Mario. A good lawyer on Nintendo's side will be able to make you confess this. Once this has been done, you are basically proven guilty of copyright infrigment.

But please don't get me wrong. I don't say Nintendo would necessarily do this, but it is a very real possibility that it could happen, and I want to warn in these cases. Just so everyone knows what the possibilities are, and believe me, if it comes as far as being brought to court, it'll change your life even if you are lucky enough to get ruled in your favor.

About Nintendo searching the internet, I didnt think of that, but it wouldn't come up if we didn't talk about it like here haha. What I don't get is how this would benefit Nintendo, not that they have the power to deal with it.

Well, making a no-profit fan project shut down usually doesn't benefit the original creator much: it could be argued that it may negatively affect the popularity of their intellectual property (in many ways, not just by making it look bad by - say - creating a horrible game with it). It's probably more of a situation where they can't be bothered to look into every single copyright infriengement case in detail: they just go after the most popular ones, or use automatic systems where available (like the YouTube Content Id system).

For that I'm 99% sure a Super Mario themed, completely no-profit Knytt Stories level nowadays would go unnoticed by Nintendo, because chances of it becoming reasonably popular are really slim. Things would change significantly if it were used to make money, because part of it would have to be given to Nintendo (excluding cases of fair use, I guess), but in either case they could threaten to sue anyway just because looking into it would be a worse waste of time than just exercising their rights and be done with it. :P

This is speculation. I haven't seen Nintendo do lawsuits against free projects either, but that doesn't mean they don't have a team that looks into this. As I've worked on big companies, I know they have a legal department. This team will occassionaly (say once every 3 months) search for copyright infrigment cases.

Basically, if the product in question is of terrible quality and Nintendo feels harmed by it, the chances are high they will pursue it, especially if the product seems to be made by Nintendo while it really isn't.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Salmoneous on February 17, 2014, 15:21:30
As I've worked on big companies, I know they have a legal department. This team will occassionaly (say once every 3 months) search for copyright infrigment cases.

But I would think something as a ks level wouldn't get high priority. It's a way too small project it's like one of the under-the-radar things for Nintendo, it doesn't register as anything near a threat to them or their rights. Anyway I still feel i am right that there's no way they would make a bigger deal out of it. Why would they really go through such costly lengths to eradicate something so small. And isn't within the same jurisdiction as a piece of art or drawing on maybe deviantart rather than as a budget commercial/indie game like aa said.

Also, I hear of few cases where companies such as nintendo sue or stop productions and it seem to me that they need to be careful due to the publicity. Now it's easier with plagiarist products but otherwise I think they'll want to save face as much as possible.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on February 17, 2014, 18:20:48
Companies as big as Nintendo do not have to worry about their face that much. Only if it happens too many times in a short timespan.

Let me emprhase again, that with this knytt stories level as being free and when properly credited, I also don't think it will be a problem, but it is pure speculation and there always is a chance Nintendo could pursue this for whatever reason. I only say to not just take it for granted that its allowed for the simple reason that if I say, oh don't be affraid, all is fine, and people start to pump out a lot of Mario levels and suddenly Nintendo does have a red flag, hell will break loose including to the finer levels. Because if those were allowed then why won't my level be allowed?

Yes, I too say that chances are high IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE that it will work, but it still is against copyright so technically speaking you're not allowed to do this.

Its the same for telling you that you can ignore the speedlimit on certain roads because A. the road easily can be driven that fast and B the cops do not check the road that much. So you start driving fast and suddenly you get pulled over for driving way too fast to the point where you loose your drivers license. My argument: well, I drive there fast too and never got caught. Of course I won't pay your ticket and of course you will have to suffer the concequences. Its the exact same thing here. Chances are really low that actions will be taken but if they do then you are the one who broke the rules in the first place and its your butt that will hurt, not ours.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: GrayFace on February 18, 2014, 00:54:34
If a company wants they can go much further than just ask you to remove your graphics because by using them you are violating their rights. Some companies are nice and will just ask you to remove them, some companies however (escpecially with the financial crisis going on) will try and sue you to get money from you.
Don't they have a small chance of winning due to Fair Use law? I don't think such case can happen in reality, no way without a cease-and-desist letter.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on February 18, 2014, 09:47:53
Yes, of course. But there's one part that I'm concerned about, and thats this one:

Quote from: Wikipedia
Effect upon work's value

The fourth factor measures the effect that the allegedly infringing use has had on the copyright owner's ability to exploit his or her original work. The court not only investigates whether the defendant's specific use of the work has significantly harmed the copyright owner's market, but also whether such uses in general, if widespread, would harm the potential market of the original.
Source: Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use)

If this is hurting the market of Nintendo, it is not only raising a red flag at their office, but it is also not anymore considered Fair Use.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Salmoneous on February 18, 2014, 15:07:40
Quote from: Wikipedia
Effect upon work's value

The fourth factor measures the effect that the allegedly infringing use has had on the copyright owner's ability to exploit his or her original work. The court not only investigates whether the defendant's specific use of the work has significantly harmed the copyright owner's market, but also whether such uses in general, if widespread, would harm the potential market of the original.
Source: Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use)

then isn't it safe? This can't get big enough to harm any of Nintendo's markets in any significance. How much traffic does the average ks level page accumulate and how many people play it? In order to annoy Nintendo on this point it it needs way way more people to play it, like 100.000+ would be my guess. What is considered widespread? I don't think 20 page hits a day.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on February 18, 2014, 18:49:59
Well, unfortunately this threshold is not by us to decide. It is by Nintendo. But lets say that 100 levels are made with mario, and that each has 100 hits. Those are 100000 hits.

But the problem starts when search engines start to give this priority, something that will happen eventually, especially when demand gets higher due to more levels featuring Mario.

Basically, if I say yes to this, everyone will think its okay and don't even ask. My job is to point out the risks, even if they are little.

So is it safe? This one instance if done properly, yeah, probably. But am I 100% sure of that? No. Can I be? No. I am not the CEO of Nintendo.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Salmoneous on February 19, 2014, 00:20:23
Well, unfortunately this threshold is not by us to decide. It is by Nintendo. But lets say that 100 levels are made with mario, and that each has 100 hits. Those are 100000 hits.

100x100=10000  :P2

Also I saw some news on a free ios game called floppy bird or flappy bird that got super-popular and it was using certain mario graphics like the green pipes. But Nintendo didn't respond to that so either they're chill with it or they don't have a case with it or they'll lose on it. And that floppy bird game is like millions times bigger than a ks level. If you've studied law what's that about? Shouldn't Nintendo take action?
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: sergiocornaga on February 19, 2014, 03:47:19
Also I saw some news on a free ios game called floppy bird or flappy bird that got super-popular and it was using certain mario graphics like the green pipes. But Nintendo didn't respond to that so either they're chill with it or they don't have a case with it or they'll lose on it. And that floppy bird game is like millions times bigger than a ks level. If you've studied law what's that about? Shouldn't Nintendo take action?

Flappy Bird didn't use any directly ripped graphics, just pipes that are green and vaguely resemble those seen in Mario. A Nintendo representative has more or less stated they have no issue with this (http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/02/10/no-complaints-about-flappy-bird-nintendo-says/).
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: GrayFace on February 19, 2014, 18:41:47
Exactly. The problem with Mario is that it's trademarked and so it's not just an element resembling an element from Nintendo game, it's a thing in its own.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on February 19, 2014, 18:51:39
Actually there is high speculation that Nintendo did nicely asked him to put the game off the market or else.

He then suddenly took the game from the market becaues he felt it was too addictive. Then all kinds of clones pop up and they are banned from both iTunes store and Google Play. If you ask me, this has Nintendo written all over it.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: PhoenixTigerz on February 26, 2014, 01:35:32
 I should've said thanks like 2 weeks ago, so thanks.
 Also the reason why I ask the question about derivative works was because back then I heard about Knytt stories , my first thoughts was for a first level is to have Juni exploring the Planet Zebes from the video game Super Metroid on the SNES. However because of my lack of knowledge of Level editing and that I was using v1.0.4. I never went any farther from there. Now that I have a lot more knowledge than back then and that I was using a different version of Knytt stories. I now want to accomplish what I started with. Now from what I read of the uses of created derivative art including enemies and the planets environment. So I guess it's best to keep it to myself. 

Finally what's the link to Knyttroid? I couldn't find any sources asides from a .jpg image.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: sergiocornaga on February 26, 2014, 03:19:09
Finally what's the link to Knyttroid? I couldn't find any sources asides from a .jpg image.

It's from this page (http://www.bardinelli.com/?p=714), I don't recall the tilesets ever being released.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Kira on September 21, 2014, 15:49:33
Just one simple question, we can use music from free music archive isn't it ?
http://freemusicarchive.org/ (http://freemusicarchive.org/)
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on September 21, 2014, 19:15:35
Just one simple question, we can use music from free music archive isn't it ?
http://freemusicarchive.org/ (http://freemusicarchive.org/)

As stated in the FAQ on freemusicarchive.org it depends on the license given with each song. So is it allowed? possibly. Make sure by checking the license assigned to each song. Some songs will have different requirements for them to use than others, and some may not be used in your project at all.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: Kira on November 09, 2014, 10:15:40
Excuse me if this question has already been asked.
Can I use music that is a free remix of copyrighted music?

For example can I use this remix of music by David Whittaker (a composer of video game music of the 80s) if the remixer is OK?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEWr5Rxs_HE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEWr5Rxs_HE)

Kira
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: sergiocornaga on November 09, 2014, 11:16:11
Excuse me if this question has already been asked.
Can I use music that is a free remix of copyrighted music?

For example can I use this remix of music by David Whittaker (a composer of video game music of the 80s) if the remixer is OK?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEWr5Rxs_HE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEWr5Rxs_HE)

Kira

Technically, I think the remix itself is legally questionable in the first place. You would have to seek permission from the copyright holder of the original song (which may or may not be David Whittaker) to be completely in the clear.
Title: Re: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself
Post by: LPChip on November 09, 2014, 21:49:39
Given that I'm very active in the C64 remix scene, and I know many of the sceners as well as the legends, I can answer this. For C64 music to be allowed to be remixed, you have to look for if the original song for the game has copyrighted material in it. Some songs on the C64 are based on original work, and as such cannot be used obviously, where others are just simple compositions or more advanced. The C64 music has been declared public because the C64 itself doesn't exist anymore, and all programmers who made music for it have agreed that they're rather honoured by remixes than want to persue any legal actions.

So that means the remix from AliensVsCoronationSt is valid.

Now comes the part, can you use it? Ask the remixer. If he's okay, and proper credit is given to both the remixer and the original author (its only fair to do that) then you're all set. The credit would look like: Music: AliensVsCoronationSt, based on C64 music by David Wittaker.