Nifflas' Support Forum

Temporary => Knytt Stories Level Releases => Topic started by: Hmpf on March 05, 2010, 01:25:22

Title: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on March 05, 2010, 01:25:22
This is a forty-screen environmental somewhat thematically inspired by Ursula LeGuin's "Always Coming Home", and the gently contemplative post-apocalyptic manga "Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou" - more by the latter than the former, really.

Visually, it's the love child of Chezzy's "Night SE" and the famous "A Walk at Night" by Quincent Cartographer. I've used a few (crucial) elements of the latter's tilesets.

I'm very leery of posting screenshots for this level, for some reason. There are two thumbnails below, though. Plus, this level was declared "gorgeous" by two out of my three beta testers, so maybe you can download it on trust...?

Oh, one more thing: one of the few things I feel needs improvement still, if only I could figure out what to do about it, is the fact that there is no way to indicate when the player is supposed to press the 'down' key to advance the dialogue without actually adding something like "press down" to the speech balloons - which breaks immersion when you're aiming for a somewhat poetic effect. So I have, for the most part, refrained from using such an indication. Basically - just press down whenever you encounter dialogue; it certainly can't *hurt*.


BTW: I owe an apology to my beta testers, yohji, the Jack, and Pick Yer Poison, for posting this without replying to their last batch of comments, nor giving them a chance to give it another look. The beta process for this was quite intense (and resulted in the level growing and improving quite a bit), but the changes between the last beta version and this one are minor, and I decided I felt really good about this version. So, here it is. I'll still try to reply to your comments in the next few days, though, to explain - at least in some cases - why I've decided to do what I've done. But yeah, the main explanation is, I'm really happy with (nearly) everything as it is now.  :-)


Ha. And I guess a *link* would be helpful...

http://www.knyttlevels.com/levels/Hmpf%20MacSlow%20-%20Remembering%20the%20City%20v1.2.knytt.bin

ETA: Fixed some minor bugs, thanks to egomassive; link above leads to latest version. (That's what I get for not running the final version past my betas once again! *g*)

ETA2: Removed a tree.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: lamarblake on March 05, 2010, 04:54:16
Download it on trust? Well, not a problem after Falling Water Part 1. That was awesome so yes, I'd download this without the plea for trust. What the heck, if it's no good I can delete. :)  

BTW, speaking of Falling Water Part 1 why aren't you working on Part 2 instead of offering up this new and possibly choice tidbit of a level?

Must have more Falling Water!

Anyway, off to play this one instead.....

And....finished. Actually, I've run Juni back and forth several times just to listen to the music.

Really quite a beautifully orchestrated bit o' level there sir. In my top ten environmental levels. Well done.

Now. Finish Falling Water Part 2.  :crazy:  :nuts:
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: the Jack on March 05, 2010, 09:08:46
@lamarblake: She's still working on Falling Water part 2 -- you should check its Level Preview thread more often. (Also, she's not generally addressed as 'sir'.)

@Hmpf: You don't owe us any apologies. Good beta readers testers will always have lots of suggestions for changes based on their experience of your work, but in the end, it's always your work.

And in this case, some fine work it is.  :D
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: egomassive on March 05, 2010, 09:22:32
This was quite good. I've been anticipating it and I wasn't disappointed. Noticed a thing or two that broke the immersion.
Spoiler: bugs (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on March 05, 2010, 11:20:22
Thanks, egomassive! Heh, I'd been wondering if there was a way to prevent Juni from moving around during a shift... *and* I'd been wondering what that 'quantize' thing meant! (Should have just experimented with that a bit, really; dunno why I never did...)

Anyway: fixed all the stuff you mentioned, and filed away your technical advice for the next level. :-)
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: the Jack on March 05, 2010, 14:14:42
Oh, where's the facepalm smiley when I need it!

I actually noticed the quantized-shifting issue -- repeatedly, even -- but kept forgetting to mention it. And I even knew what the problem was... probably that's part of why I let it slip my mind, actually; I figured you would know what 'quantize' does, being more experienced at level editing than I am.

Careful, Egomassive, or you might wind up flooded with requests to beta other people's levels.  ;)
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: lamarblake on March 05, 2010, 17:29:46
@lamarblake: She's still working on Falling Water part 2 -- you should check its Level Preview thread more often. (Also, she's not generally addressed as 'sir'.)

@Hmpf: You don't owe us any apologies. Good beta readers testers will always have lots of suggestions for changes based on their experience of your work, but in the end, it's always your work.

And in this case, some fine work it is.  :D


Well, I certainly meant no disrespect by using "sir" to address.  Actually, it's not apparent from the username whether Hmph is male or female. As for checking other threads, I don't usually nor do I have time to check other users profiles. I barely have enough time to check out this temporary thread. The request to have Falling Water part 2 finished was serious albeit with some humor intended and not meant to pressure.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on March 05, 2010, 18:00:48
Well, I certainly meant no disrespect by using "sir" to address.  Actually, it's not apparent from the username whether Hmph is male or female. As for checking other threads, I don't usually nor do I have time to check other users profiles.

No prob. Although I, like the Jack, occasionally like to remind people not to assume 'male' as the default gender of a not-immediately-clearly-gendered person on the net. ;-) But, I'm not offended or anything - just think it's a useful thing to keep in mind. :-)

Quote
The request to have Falling Water part 2 finished was serious albeit with some humor intended and not meant to pressure.

I appreciate your interest. FW is coming along nicely, but it's going to be huge, so it's still going to take a while. :-)

Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Pick Yer Poison on March 05, 2010, 18:56:59
@Hmpf: You don't owe us any apologies. Good beta readers testers will always have lots of suggestions for changes based on their experience of your work, but in the end, it's always your work.
Seconded. Beta testers are there to use as an optional resource, not as required input; they provide useful information and (sometimes) helpful advice, but they don't necessarily know what's best for your work.

And in this case, some fine work it is.  :D
Also seconded. (http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4378/grinc.gif)

Oh, where's the facepalm smiley when I need it!
Here ya go! (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/9b0990e46c.gif)
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on March 05, 2010, 20:21:59
Ya know, I'm kind of intrigued by the fact that the only people commenting on this seem to be my beta testers (apart from lamarblake, that is). Are you guys my fan club or what? ;-)

(Yes, I do know that it's probably mainly because it's the weekend and a lot of people don't really post much on the weekend. - I really don't think it's due to the level being crap. Though maybe I have an over-inflated opinion of it, being its 'mommy' and all... ;-))

ETA: Oh, I was talking rubbish. "... apart from lamarblake *and egomassive*), I should have said. I guess egomassive's great technical advice made me feel that he was one of my betas. *g*
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: minmay on March 06, 2010, 17:16:21
It's a decent environmental level.  Mainly I'm annoyed by two things:

1. A few screens at the beginning feel way too busy to me.
2. More detailed (foreground) objects are often placed behind less detailed (background) objects, which always looks weird.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on March 06, 2010, 17:36:06
It's a decent environmental level.  Mainly I'm annoyed by two things:

1. A few screens at the beginning feel way too busy to me.

That is a matter of taste, I suspect. I rather like certain types of visual 'busyness' (though it depends very much on... I dunno. Whether it feels balanced? Something, anyway. There's 'good busy' and 'bad busy', in my eye.)

ETA: Ya know what, you're *kind of* right about the second screen (not all of the early screens, though, IMO). There's always been *something* that bothered me about the second screen a bit, and I've just figured out, thanks to your comment and the search for wrongly placed background stuff that it inspired, that it's the over-abundance of trees in that screen that makes it feel 'off' to me. So I've removed a tree. I really do like the screen completely, now, though. :-)

However:

Quote
2. More detailed (foreground) objects are often placed behind less detailed (background) objects, which always looks weird.

... They are? Where? I'm honestly puzzled by this observation. Could you give an example?
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: minmay on March 06, 2010, 19:51:27
... They are? Where? I'm honestly puzzled by this observation. Could you give an example?

Mostly in the village, with those green vine things used in front of the much more detailed background.  Always looks weird.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on March 06, 2010, 20:29:00
Okay, I'm even more confused now.

There's not a single thing I'd call 'vine' in that area, nor anything green except for some grass, which is used where it's usually used. ... Do you mean the trees? But they're not green, either...

And the background isn't that detailed, is it? And where it *is* detailed - the small 'background versions' of the houses, I suppose? And possibly the small, background versions of the trees? - both the colour and size distinguishes those elements from the foreground parts pretty well. Or so I think, anyway...
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: minmay on March 07, 2010, 00:13:32
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

It's the trees I'm upset with.  They're distinguished from the far background, but the lack of detail makes them look strange, as though they should be cracks rather than trees.  (I mistook them for vines at first...)

Particularily bad with the one at the bottom.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on March 07, 2010, 00:56:16
Uhm, could you put that in spoiler tags? That's a semi-secret area... ;-)

I do see a problem with the one tree at bottom front - but that, to me, is more of a lack-of-contrast problem than a detail problem. I guess I don't really see patterns on ground tiles as 'detail' in the same sense as detail on things like houses etc. And the trees are very clearly meant as 'not-background' in the tileset, I think. Granted, the fact that they're *meant* that way doesn't guarantee that they'll *work* that way - especially not for everyone. They did for me, though.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: minmay on March 07, 2010, 01:05:04
When someone sees an object with only one color and no outline, they will generally expect to see it in the background.

(Didn't realize that was a secret area, sorry!)
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: the Jack on March 07, 2010, 05:15:06
an object with only one color and no outline

Oh, like grass?
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Pick Yer Poison on March 07, 2010, 11:52:39
Ya know, I'm kind of intrigued by the fact that the only people commenting on this seem to be my beta testers (apart from lamarblake, that is). Are you guys my fan club or what? ;-)
Sweet, you have a fan club? Where can I join? ;)

And never fear, this happened with Outer Reaches too; a huge response to the beta and then a much smaller response to the actual level. I think more people respond to beta levels because while they're in production they're being updated, so there's more time for people to see them and get involved, whereas a new level isn't as noticeable (I must admit, I myself rarely check the new level releases board anymore).
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: bulbapuck on March 07, 2010, 12:03:03
I really enjoyed this level. I found it quite calming to walk back and forth in it :)

I have a question though: I've heard that piano tune that was playing in the darker area in games before. What is it? I quite like it.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: yohji on March 07, 2010, 15:36:36
Congratulatons on getting it released! Looks just as beautiful as the last beta I tested :)

It is kind of sad that few people commented, I was particularly expecting someone to post about
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
I mean, it's so unexpected and it looks so nice :(
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: minmay on March 07, 2010, 15:49:27
Oh, like grass?

Obviously there are exceptions, mostly extremely small things like grass and rocks (and even then it can still look weird on occasions).

Wait, do you disagree that it looks strange to put far background tiles in the near background or foreground?
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on March 07, 2010, 19:14:18
Hm. My brain just doesn't parse those trees as something that looks like it should be in the far background, I guess. It puts them in the same category as most other trees in KS (except for very small, pale-coloured ones), namely, the category of "stuff that is somewhere fairly closely behind Juni". Nifflas' trees usually don't have outlines either. (IMO, outlines on trees look odd, in most cases - what with the twigs and branches usually being fairly thin and all...)

Also, that particular screen technically doesn't even have a far background - it's just a couple of ledges on a cliff face.

I suspect this is another one of those intractable matters of personal opinion... ;-)

@bulbapuck: It's a track called "Dark Walk" (I think) by Kevin MacLeod.  MacLeod's stuff is used in a lot of free games. Also, I'm really happy to hear you found the level calming, as that's one of the effects I was aiming for. :-)

@yohji: Well, at least my roommate told me today that he'd just found
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
. *g*

Personally, I'm more surprised nobody commented on
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
as that's what I find the most visually striking element of the level, myself. But then, everyone has a different emotional reaction to things, and that is just *my* reaction. :-)

Incidentally, the idea of
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
was inspired not just by the already mentioned manga, but also, on the visual level, by a round of my mad creativity technique of randomly stepping through the tilesets that left me with a screen in which
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
That was the real first seed of this level.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: minmay on March 07, 2010, 19:24:52
Nifflas' trees usually don't have outlines either.

They have many colors, though.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on March 07, 2010, 19:54:29
Nifflas' trees usually don't have outlines either.

They have many colors, though.

Not all of them. Remember the trees in the devastated landscape in The Machine?

Also... the trees (in my level) are supposed to be dead or just barely alive; so they wouldn't have leaves. And the lighting in the area where they are primarily used is diffuse enough (evening; shady ledges on a cliff) to make their not having pronounced shadows - the other thing that might cause them to be more than one colour -  quite logical. Well, at least to me. But, as I said, I suspect this is one of those differences of opinion that are just unsolvable. My brain says 'those trees are in the medium-foreground', your brain says 'those trees are in the far background'. Whose brain is right? For what it's worth, none of my betas found a problem with the trees. But, ultimately it doesn't matter. It bothered you; it didn't bother me; end of story, really.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: minmay on March 08, 2010, 01:11:15
Not all of them. Remember the trees in the devastated landscape in The Machine?

The key is that they're more detailed than anything behind them.

Of course, it obviously isn't just detail; there's saturation and such to consider as well.  And yes, this is obviously also a difference in opinion.  If you prefer to halt this discussion, that's fine.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Aptequar on March 08, 2010, 01:48:35
Stunning work here, Ms. MacSlow.  :^^:

From what I understand about the concept of this level, the feeling I get when playing this is like each section is like a snapshot, and they're ephemeral. The smaller areas really help this, they're microcosms - capsules of beauty.

Just a small gripe - the piano tune is a little loud - sometimes it drowns out the games' sound effects. Nothing too damning, I know. :p

This has shot somewhere up in my favourite level list, for sure.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: WatcherCCG on March 08, 2010, 02:47:46
I love this level. I don't like Playgrounds because they don't have an end, but this is one of the few I will definitely keep.

And Hmpf, unless something was changed, Environmental levels have ends. Only Playgrounds don't have a win square.

I could think of a great ending cutscene, if you want. :)
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: the Jack on March 08, 2010, 03:05:27
I love this level. I don't like Playgrounds because they don't have an end, but this is one of the few I will definitely keep.

And Hmpf, unless something was changed, Environmental levels have ends. Only Playgrounds don't have a win square.

I could think of a great ending cutscene, if you want. :)

LOL, the beta team for this level actually discussed the Environmental vs. Playground issue, and whether the level needed a cutscene ending (or any ending at all). We all agreed it worked better open-ended. Hmpf is using Environmental in the Scenic sense, obviously, rather than the strict Nifflas definition.

edited to add:
Nifflas' trees usually don't have outlines either.

They have many colors, though.
Quote
The key is that they're more detailed than anything behind them.

If you find these screenshots confusing, minmay, I submit that the problem is not in the screenshots but in your perception.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Pick Yer Poison on March 08, 2010, 05:56:39
And Hmpf, unless something was changed, Environmental levels have ends. Only Playgrounds don't have a win square.
Herblgerblgack. Looks like I've labeled Darkness wrong then. XD
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: minmay on March 08, 2010, 15:45:05
If you find these screenshots confusing, minmay, I submit that the problem is not in the screenshots but in your perception.

I don't get it; as far as I can see, those screenshots obey the "rule" perfectly.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on March 08, 2010, 16:07:27
minmay, the Jack, how about a new thread about the foreground/background issue, as it's clearly a general aesthetic discussion and not so much one about this level?

ETA: Thanks, Aptequar and WatcherCCG! Glad you enjoyed the level! And, yeah, the win tile issue was discussed with my betas. Personally, I don't feel that environmentals really need one, and I seem to remember quite a few environmentals without one. Is it *really* part of the definition given in the world.ini file that environmentals have a win tile? Or is there another, additional level type definition that says so, somewhere on the forum?

Me, I like the sense of being able to just keep on walking around an environmental; I guess I see them as something more akin to a virtual park than a game. ;-)

I did add
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
to give the level *some* sense of closure, after discussion with my betas, though.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: WatcherCCG on March 08, 2010, 16:19:25
It was discussed back during the old forum: the one split between Playgrounds and Environmentals was that a Playground level was an infinite loop, a fun house with no end, while the Environmental levels showed off creativity, and ended with a nice little cutscene. Just FYI. Level is lovely either way.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: minmay on March 08, 2010, 17:00:04
Have you all forgotten that a level can have two categories?  You can make a level which is both Environmental *and* Playground.
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on March 08, 2010, 17:01:46
It was discussed back during the old forum: the one split between Playgrounds and Environmentals was that a Playground level was an infinite loop, a fun house with no end, while the Environmental levels showed off creativity, and ended with a nice little cutscene. Just FYI. Level is lovely either way.

I guess it's no skin off my back, really, whether I call this Environmental or Playground. :-) Will try to edit the title of this thread...

Oh, and someone mentioned the music being too loud: yeah, I'm aware of that, actually. I really need to learn audio editing... I just used the track as provided by the composer, because, well, I *don't* know audio editing yet.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: WatcherCCG on March 08, 2010, 18:05:30
It's fine, if you ask me.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Teper on March 11, 2010, 01:11:57
This is a wonderful level, really. The concept, the graphics, the ambiance sounds and the music are great, and work perfectly together. I'll replay this sometime, to get back in the mood.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on March 13, 2010, 15:38:32
Thank you, Teper.

Re: what Aptequar said about the places being ephemeral - I meant to reply to that, but forgot, so here goes:

Well, from a philosophical standpoint, *everything* is ephemeral, of course ;-) but there are degrees to this, in the level (as in reality ;-)). Also, there are different senses to the word ephemeral, I think... one being something close to 'transitory', and the other, maybe, closer to, though not identical with, 'ghostly'?

The city is, well, like the intro screen says, essentially something like a ghost, or a memory. There used to be a real city there a long time ago, and maybe some of the boulders and rocks (especially the more rectangular-looking ones) aren't boulders and rocks but the remains of its ruins... but the lights that appear only at night are not a physical phenomenon. (So maybe *they*, actually, are not so ephemeral at all - in the sense that they will always be there at night, because what isn't physical doesn't decay...?)

The
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
I think, is real, and not particularly ephemeral (although it is, of course, a symbol of the transitoriness of every form of life).

The
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
may or may not be ephemeral. I don't know any more about it than Juni does.

The
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
in my mind, is not ephemeral, although it probably only looks spectacular in the dark. In my mind - but you're free to your own interpretation, of course - it's a little patch of nature developing rich and strange new forms after the fall of the civilisation of the city. A real and tangible sign of the future, if you will.

And Juni's village is entirely real and non-ephemeral, of course - but it is also quite obviously a dying place, visibly built from the scrap of that long-dead civilisation.
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: WatcherCCG on March 13, 2010, 18:27:16
Wow, this level just became very depressing. Good thing Juni can just find another home. She's got a ton of them all over her planet, really.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on March 13, 2010, 19:27:36
Wow, this level just became very depressing. Good thing Juni can just find another home. She's got a ton of them all over her planet, really.

Naaah. It's not depressing. There's the remains of old civilisations all over our planet, too! That's just how it goes with civilisations... Do you get depressed over the fall of the Roman empire?

Anyway, yeah, this level is what you get if you have a level maker who's both an archaeologist and an environmentalist who believes our current civilisation has probably crossed its zenith. *g*

But, as I said, you don't have to interpret the level the way I intended it; that's just what I thought/felt when I was making it, but everyone's free to see something else in it. If I had intended this to be the only possible interpretation I would have made it clearer in the level itself.

The strongest inspiration was really Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou (http://www.onemanga.com/Yokohama_Kaidashi_Kikou/0/10/), with its mysterious streetlamp-shaped plants, its mysteriously still working actual streetlights in sunken cities, and its people-shaped and house-shaped mushrooms that develop after the fall of human civilisation. It's not a depressing manga, IMO.

(I'd like to add that neither the manga nor my level really reflect my outlook on the future or my larger worldview. There's elements in the manga that resonate emotionally with me, though, and those elements have found their way into RtC.)
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: LB on March 14, 2010, 18:00:25
I like this level's calm spot. I just wish stuff was lighter colored, my screen shows anything dark as REALLY dark, so even if the colors are drastically different on your screen, they are the same on mine.

Thanks, egomassive! Heh, I'd been wondering if there was a way to prevent Juni from moving around during a shift... *and* I'd been wondering what that 'quantize' thing meant! (Should have just experimented with that a bit, really; dunno why I never did...)

Anyway: fixed all the stuff you mentioned, and filed away your technical advice for the next level. :-)

You do know that if you hover your mouse over anything in the KS manager, it tells you what it is and/or does in the text at the bottom of the screen, right?
Title: Re: [Environmental, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on March 14, 2010, 18:39:14
I like this level's calm spot. I just wish stuff was lighter colored, my screen shows anything dark as REALLY dark, so even if the colors are drastically different on your screen, they are the same on mine.

Actually, my screen is similar - which is annoying, and I'll definitely bring a DVD of a dark movie to the shop the next time I buy a computer screen, just to test it! I like the sf show Farscape a lot, the later seasons of which had a fairly dark look, and since I've had my new screen, I haven't been able to make out any detail in the background in those eps anymore. *Very* annoying!

I tend to play Remembering the City in a darkened room, and preferably at night. :D

But there aren't really any colours in the dark parts of this level except for black. Well, and the blue background. I have to admit, if your screen shows the blue of the background nearly as dark as the black silhouettes of the foreground stuff, then your screen's colour problem is more serious than mine's.

Quote
You do know that if you hover your mouse over anything in the KS manager, it tells you what it is and/or does in the text at the bottom of the screen, right?

I don't use the KS manager. I've only recently learned why it is that it doesn't work for me (the 'long directory path' problem) - but I'm so used to editing the world.ini now that I'm not sure I want to switch to the manager. I should probably give it a try, though. :-)
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Headgrinder on April 22, 2010, 14:05:43
Wow, can't believe I haven't commented on this level.

This is thus far my favorite environmental level.  It has a wonderfully original concept and the PERFECT accompanying music. 

The only thing I don't like is something I like:  I like the egg thing at the end as it is weird and a non-sequiter (ha!  The spell check didn't know non-sequiter), but YOU NEED TO MAKE A FOLLOWUP MAN!  What is it, why is it there, is it directly related to the city, or what????  :kicks the ground in frustration:
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: grimwit on April 22, 2010, 20:12:08
Just played it.

It was beautiful

Thank you.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Vegetal Gibber on April 23, 2010, 13:54:51
Last night, I was too tired to play anything that might require good reflexes and/or serious thinking, so I decided to load an environmental level and just relax for a change. I grabbed this, loaded it into KS and started wandering aimlessly. Man, this was just what I needed :)  The level is just gorgeous. The nicely detailed backgrounds and beautiful music make for a great relaxing atmosphere.

You get an A :D
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on April 25, 2010, 16:02:14
Thanks, Headgrinder, grimwit & Vegetal Gibber. What a nice surprise to come to the forum after a period of absence to find someone new has enjoyed one of my levels! :-)

As for Headgrinder's frustration: It's supposed to be a *mystery*! ;-) Seriously - I do not intend to explain it, partly because I don't *have* an explanation, and partly because I really think the level works better with the mystery intact.

I'm not even sure if the 'egg' thing really exists, except at night.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: grimwit on April 25, 2010, 16:33:06
The egg stands for a mystery in the context of the city.  This happens because it's such a nonsequitor as to pull you away from the original question of the city's absence during the day.

Where as the city is a ghost, the egg is reality and more solid, yet even more mysterious due to it not belonging with the rest of the context.  To make matters worse, we are given a point of view that has not seen all there is to see.

After all, Juni has never been there during the day.

A Good ending to this would be the egg opening revealing a key with no lock in the level, leading us to question the dream like atmosphere.  Is Juni, in fact, asleep.  >_>  But that's my own add on, and has nothing to do with the actual story.


O_O  Never answer questions.  It would pull away from the feel of the level.

 <3
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Pick Yer Poison on April 25, 2010, 19:36:24
(ha!  The spell check didn't know non-sequiter)
Well, for starters, it's spelled "non-sequitur." :P
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Headgrinder on April 30, 2010, 13:43:16
Then it should have caught it, right?  Apparently I can't trust google search for correct spelling either  :)  (OFF TOPIC!  OOOOOHHHH!)

So, to get on topic, I of course realize the egg is a mystery, but mysteries usually need a context.  The context for the egg is just a little to random for my brain to be comfortable with.  I DID enjoy it, but it is just very random.  It is like having a level dedicated to the apocalypse with a giraffe at the very last screen.  HUUUGGHH?   O_o O_o O_o

So, I guess I would love to see it make a little more since, like if someone in the village mentions some random tidbit about an egg.  Wouldn't have to be direct, "I saw a big egg."  Could just be "I had a dream about an egg" or "My chicken's eggs are strangely small this season."  Any of that would create (du du du dummmmmm) foreshadowing, and thus create a category for the egg at the end.

And I would love to see a version of this where you can run around during the day.  :)
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: munchybot on July 03, 2010, 09:28:19
This level is absolutely beautiful. Very tranquil at first, but as you progress into the city and the music becomes more discordant it gets creepy and unnerving, while still beautiful and calming at the same time. I didn't find any
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
though :(

Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on July 03, 2010, 21:46:35
This level is absolutely beautiful. Very tranquil at first, but as you progress into the city and the music becomes more discordant it gets creepy and unnerving, while still beautiful and calming at the same time.

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!


Quote
I didn't find any
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
though :(

Hint: it's near the right end of the city.

Quote

I agree. May be something I can implement once I start doing my own audio editing. I have plans to do that for Falling Water anyway.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: egomassive on July 04, 2010, 02:03:00
I was unsure if it was really a city or something that just looked like one. City sounds would confirm that it's definitely a city, but then it would be alive instead silent and monolithic. However, if you only hear the life but never meet it, I guess it would trade one mystery for another.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Pick Yer Poison on July 04, 2010, 04:24:29
I don't know, I think I like it as it is. It seems fairly obvious to me that it's a city (how many things look the same as a city, with all its skyscrapers and lights?), and it also seemed like a memory, because it was insubstantial. If sound was added, it would seem more concrete, as if there was actually a city out there that was just in the distance, instead of being a memory that kept on living long after what it was a memory of was gone.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Strange Darkness on July 08, 2010, 05:29:07
Seems interesting *downloading*
I thought ive played this before... guess not
loved your other levels so lets see this one!  :D
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Headgrinder on July 08, 2010, 13:22:56
If the sounds themselves where insubstantial I think it would only add depth to what is there.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Dj Gopher on July 17, 2010, 05:11:11
Beautiful.. very ambient :D
Can't think of another way to describe it..
It's very.. left-for-interpretation like.


O_O  Never answer questions.  It would pull away from the feel of the level.

 <3
:^^:
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on July 17, 2010, 14:29:13
Thank you! Heh, you'll probably be the last person to play this for a while... (see Falling Water thread for the detailed explanation).

ETA, later: Actually, I just figured out I could have used knyttlevels.com all these months... For some reason I never noticed the upload link, before, and always was under the mistaken impression that you had to get an account in some mysterious way! So I've uploaded all my levels there now. The new link is in the first post of this thread. :-)
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: StraightFlame on July 17, 2010, 22:28:31
Where am the link that is NOT 404?
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on July 17, 2010, 23:11:09
Where am the link that is NOT 404?

Uhm. It works for me? I just tried it again...
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: StraightFlame on July 19, 2010, 11:28:41
Link am no longer 404!
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Strange Darkness on August 01, 2010, 14:31:53
It is quite late but i wish to post this.
Thank you for bringing a smile to my face! C)p The charm of this level was woven ontop of me. I extremelly enjoyed this level for it was done extremelly well and you will get the rest of my thoughts tommorow. Goodnight!
EDIT:
(Very creative use of tilesets especially at the start as majority of the landscape is half buried in the sand. The cave at the end is so... out of the blue yet it fits perfectly. The music is defiantely well choosen and put into the right areas. Your right this is the lovechild of Cheesey and Quincent Cartographer... simply amazing. .)
Title: Re: [Environmental/Playground, small] Remembering the City
Post by: Hmpf on August 04, 2010, 22:52:39
Really glad to hear you enjoyed my level so much! And, you know, late feedback is much, much better than *no* feedback, so never worry about being late to post something. :-)