Nifflas' Support Forum

Released Games => Saira => Topic started by: lamarblake on December 16, 2009, 00:31:41

Title: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: lamarblake on December 16, 2009, 00:31:41

Ok. I've been putting this off but I'd like to know if anyone else playing Saira feels the same way I do. First of all the graphics are so beautiful. No complaints what so ever there. Second of all the controls are very intuitive and can be figured out in just minutes (or less depending on how good you are). Thirdly, the story is very good.

Now comes the bad part and I really hate to be the first person here, or so it seems, that has a negative comment so let me preface that with stating that the problem is most assuredly entirely mine.

What I really, really find irritating is the mechanics of making Saira move. Every time I've started the demo I get so frustrated at trying to make her move, climb or fly that I can only play for about 10 minutes before I quit. Running out of air on the one planet where she's in a space suit or running out of booster before trying to make a special jump makes me want to pull my hair out. lol

So, until I master her or my skills, I'm sorry to say I won't be buying the full version. I'm not giving up but...well...there it is.

Give me some powerups!  C)p

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: LightningEagle on December 16, 2009, 00:40:52

I guess I can send you an editted .ini file which will prolong your time, if that'll help you?  :P2

But... I guess, I know what you mean... to some extend at least. I have the same problem when trying to get to those hard-to-get-to-but-not-really-important places. But in general it hasn't really been a problem when talking progressing the story.  :/

Sure I ran out of air on the intoxicated planet, but only 2 or 3 times.

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: karooble on December 16, 2009, 00:41:31

I don't really have a problem making Saira move, but I can definitely second the desire for Knytt Stories-style powerups! That was so much of what made Knytt Stories fun; it would be amazing to implement something similar here, if it's possible at all. :D

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: lamarblake on December 16, 2009, 00:45:05

Thanks for the offer lightening eagle but not so sure I want to mess around with the files. I'm not totally literate when it comes to changing stuff like that. My luck I'd mess it up.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

on the planet in the demo where you have to light up the white crystals there is one all the way to the left and up that is impossible to get to from that screen. I take it you have to booster/fly from somewhere else but for the life of me have not figured out where. arrgghh

Quote from: LightningEagle on December 16, 2009, 00:40:52

I guess I can send you an editted .ini file which will prolong your time, if that'll help you?  :P2

But... I guess, I know what you mean... to some extend at least. I have the same problem when trying to get to those hard-to-get-to-but-not-really-important places. But in general it hasn't really been a problem when talking progressing the story.  :/

Sure I ran out of air on the intoxicated planet, but only 2 or 3 times.

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: LightningEagle on December 16, 2009, 00:48:25

Quote from: lamarblake on December 16, 2009, 00:45:05

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

on the planet in the demo where you have to light up the white crystals there is one all the way to the left and up that is impossible to get to from that screen. I take it you have to booster/fly from somewhere else but for the life of me have not figured out where. arrgghh

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Below that screen is a cave. "Fly+power" can be found there. That took me a couple of tries too.

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: lamarblake on December 16, 2009, 00:50:13

Ok, thanks for that. I had been in that area and did try to make it from there but I'll fall back on my original post and blame it on user error.

Quote from: LightningEagle on December 16, 2009, 00:48:25

Quote from: lamarblake on December 16, 2009, 00:45:05

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

on the planet in the demo where you have to light up the white crystals there is one all the way to the left and up that is impossible to get to from that screen. I take it you have to booster/fly from somewhere else but for the life of me have not figured out where. arrgghh

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Below that screen is a cave. "Fly+power" can be found there. That took me a couple of tries too.

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: TheRealTJ on December 16, 2009, 00:51:41

Quote from: karooble on December 16, 2009, 00:41:31

I don't really have a problem making Saira move, but I can definitely second the desire for Knytt Stories-style powerups! That was so much of what made Knytt Stories fun; it would be amazing to implement something similar here, if it's possible at all. :D

Hmm, I haven't really looked to much at the level editor, but wouldn't it be possible to put something like that in your level?

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: smeagle on December 16, 2009, 00:53:25

at first i agreed, but then i got used to it!

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: LightningEagle on December 16, 2009, 00:55:05

Quote from: TheRealTJ on December 16, 2009, 00:51:41

Hmm, I haven't really looked to much at the level editor, but wouldn't it be possible to put something like that in your level?

I've yet to find a sign of that being possible. It is however possible to play with the physics.
To each planet you can assign different maximum velocity, running acceleration, movement freedom in air, gravitational force and a whole lot more...

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: back seat astronaut on December 16, 2009, 01:00:05

I don't have any problem making her move.  In fact, in some ways this game reminds me of a certain style of game that I have found very frustrating in other cases (for example, Prince of Persia Sands of Time [I haven't played the others but they're probably like this too]) where you have to control the character pretty precisely while making it do a serious of difficult maneuvers (often within a time limit, including wall jumping, etc.), and if you fail, you have to do the whole thing all over again.  Except the difference in this case is that somehow I never got frustrated, it stayed fun no matter how many times I had to try something before finally doing it successfully.  I think the reason Saira isn't frustrating to me like other games have been is that one the main reason PoP drove me crazy was that the character was hard to control, but in Saira's case I didn't feel that way at all.

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: lamarblake on December 16, 2009, 01:06:34

POP! Of course, just within the past few minutes I managed to make the jump that had been driving me nutz!  Onward....

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: heartskuppy on December 16, 2009, 01:32:56

Quote from: smeagle on December 16, 2009, 00:53:25

at first i agreed, but then i got used to it!

basically this, yeah. at first her movement feels very restricting and kinda stiff compared to knytt stories, but then i got the hang of it and realised it's not supposed to be like knytt stories, it's more of a realistic-type platformer. i think you just need to adjust, that's all.

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: L[one]R on December 16, 2009, 03:50:29

I think basic controls are rather simple. Sure Saira is not as responsive as Knytt/Knytt Stories, but it doesn't take much to get used to basic movements. However I find the parts with the "fly" power up, checkpoint run, toxic planet (basically most parts that have a time limit, where you have to move FAST) rather frustrating.

Fly power-up lasts for very short time, so you have no time to slow down and carefully avoid the obstacles. But if you fly at max speed - you have very little time to change the course to not bump into walls and avoid disabling fly mode. It would be much easier if you flew a little slower, but had a little more time. Or maybe have no time limit at all and have movement limit instead.

Toxic planet wasn't too bad, but still I think it could use less harsh time limits.

Checkpoint run too was somewhat frustrating. I barely made it on the 2nd try and I'm really glad that I did. I couldn't take another 2.5 minutes of running around like crazy and possibly failing again.

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: The stickman on December 16, 2009, 03:58:10

I beat the whole game in 3 days. Then again, I have mad platforming skillz... 8)

Quote from: LightningEagle on December 16, 2009, 00:40:52

I guess I can send you an editted .ini file which will prolong your time, if that'll help you?  :P2

You can edit the .ini to change the physics? Like Knytt?

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: Ax on December 16, 2009, 04:42:42

Weird...I've found the movement to be incredibly well done.  It's fluid and has a fantastic sense of momentum.  Usually I play platform games and find myself wishing that the designer spent some time playing Mario, because Mario games tend to have fantastic control and player movement.  But Saira I think hits it right on the head, in fact I think she moves even better than Mario does in New Super Mario Bros Wii.

The fluid motion reminds me a lot of the Prince of Persia games, especially when she's climbing and jumping from wall to wall.

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: googoogjoob on December 16, 2009, 05:29:32

Quote from: The stickman on December 16, 2009, 03:58:10

I beat the whole game in 3 days. Then again, I have mad platforming skillz... 8)

I beat the whole game in like 4 hours. (The first time around.) 9_9

Also: I think it's important to note that Saira is the first explicitly human protagonist of a Nifflas game, so of course she can't climb like a Knytt or double-jump or whatever. (Though the flying bit doesn't really make sense, regardless of what she is.)

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: Nikolas on December 16, 2009, 07:24:48

I think that comparing Saira with KS is not really brilliant. KS is a different game, with different mechanics. Those complaining about the movement are probably too familiar with KS... I was as well, but Saira came in rather natural, and I found that I could climb rather fast jumping from wall to wall. The movement is not such a big obstacle like in KS, where a single pixel would make the lunatic levels make YOU insane. It's rather hard, but even the speedruns are well calculated!

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: LightningEagle on December 16, 2009, 09:39:04

Quote from: The stickman on December 16, 2009, 03:58:10

You can edit the .ini to change the physics? Like Knytt?

http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=2304.msg26063#msg26063

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: lamarblake on December 16, 2009, 14:32:45

Update. After I started this thread last night, I made terrific progress not only in solving puzzles but with my finger/keyboard coordination. Example: In the demo on the planet (sorry can't remember the name) where there is a pool of booster in the bottom left and then a vertcal shaft that goes up an entire screen then a "fly" up the next screen to either the left or the right, I managed to make that on my third try and subsequently the next 3 times. Did it a couple of extra times just for training!

So thanks to my question and subsequent postings from y'all that spurred me on, I've decided that purchasing the entire game is in my best interests.  X-P

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: inpheaux on December 16, 2009, 16:08:23

To me the gameplay feels almost like Mirror's Edge in 2D. I think the lack of responsiveness people are experiencing can be attributed to the amount of air control and slower directional changes.  If you're used to knytt stories, air control and directional change are done on a hairpin, so to speak, so I can see how the change can be unsettling. I for one love Saira's gameplay just how it is, please don't change a thing.

As for the power-ups, I think the original Saira episode is fine without them.  For third party episodes however, I suppose anything is possible as long as it suits the gameplay.

- Inph

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: Ax on December 16, 2009, 23:48:46

Quote from: inpheaux on December 16, 2009, 16:08:23

To me the gameplay feels almost like Mirror's Edge in 2D.

Yeah, I think that's a really apt comparison.

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: karooble on December 17, 2009, 06:38:51

Quote from: inpheaux on December 16, 2009, 16:08:23

To me the gameplay feels almost like Mirror's Edge in 2D.

Thirded. I think there's a really parkour-y feeling in Saira. Momentum is crucial, and once you build up speed, you can go really fast. I enjoyed both Saira and Knytt Stories tremendously, but they do have very different "feelings." Still, compared to many popular recent platformers, I think Saira feels much more responsive and natural (I'm looking at you, An Untitled Story!  :moody:).

Title: Re: Anyone feel like I do?
Post by: googoogjoob on December 17, 2009, 07:28:28

I think Saira feels parkoury because Saira is deliberately more human than, for example, Juni, who can change directions in midair and climb sheer walls.