Nifflas' Support Forum
Being Creative => Collaborations => Topic started by: moleherd on March 01, 2009, 12:42:29
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Hi. Dynamite and me start with this project last year. We have something done but it isn?t done at all. I have source but I don?t know how to work with MMF2. So I canafford you source for it and online source. So if anybody is interest...?
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I'm definitely interested, but I do not own a copy of MMF2. For now I can only provide assistance in creating solutions written in C. I've gained enough knowledge on the mysql API to program some stuff, but I'm not sure how much of the project is occupied by MMF2.
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I'm definitely interested, but I do not own a copy of MMF2. For now I can only provide assistance in creating solutions written in C. I've gained enough knowledge on the mysql API to program some stuff, but I'm not sure how much of the project is occupied by MMF2.
Great. Sorry that I dont log fpr a long time. I have some work to do.
All things in this project that has been done yet are in MMF2. But if you can do online things in that programs you write it would be great.
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Im afraid to ask this but... is this project still alive or has it been abandoned? :S
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if you ask me it's in the fridge for some while to come. Yet... there IS a plan.
But now is not the right time.
Yet I can not speak for the project owner, merely my own input.
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I cant wait for the online world :)
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Don't bother...
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I have thought of how I would want a knytt online game to be like. Nothing like what you guys had in mind really...
Ok, Knytt online would be about making levels and then share them and play them online.
Knytt online would have the same editor as knytt stories only that it would be upgraded so
it has more stuff. First thing is a new layer that will make things go in front of the player.
Then more objects like everything from first knytt game and much more.
When the level is done you go into knytt online and upload it to the knytt online database.
In the level database players can see the newest and most popular levels. They can also see
how many people plays the levels. And for more fun the players can leave comments and rate the
levels.
You aces the levels from a special building (or something else) in a main world where most players is. In the main world you can play mini games with other players and other fun stuff.
The interface is simple, it has a message-box, friend and ignore boxes and shows what power ups you have.
Thats how I would want a knytt online game to be.
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I have thought of how I would want a knytt online game to be like. Nothing like what you guys had in mind really...
Ok, Knytt online would be about making levels and then share them and play them online.
Knytt online would have the same editor as knytt stories only that it would be upgraded so
it has more stuff. First thing is a new layer that will make things go in front of the player.
Then more objects like everything from first knytt game and much more.
When the level is done you go into knytt online and upload it to the knytt online database.
In the level database players can see the newest and most popular levels. They can also see
how many people plays the levels. And for more fun the players can leave comments and rate the
levels.
You aces the levels from a special building (or something else) in a main world where most players is. In the main world you can play mini games with other players and other fun stuff.
The interface is simple, it has a message-box, friend and ignore boxes and shows what power ups you have.
Thats how I would want a knytt online game to be.
Salmoneous Idea FTW! C)p
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It's hard enough to make it work at all. :P
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I have thought of how I would want a knytt online game to be like. Nothing like what you guys had in mind really...
Ok, Knytt online would be about making levels and then share them and play them online.
Knytt online would have the same editor as knytt stories only that it would be upgraded so
it has more stuff. First thing is a new layer that will make things go in front of the player.
Then more objects like everything from first knytt game and much more.
When the level is done you go into knytt online and upload it to the knytt online database.
In the level database players can see the newest and most popular levels. They can also see
how many people plays the levels. And for more fun the players can leave comments and rate the
levels.
You aces the levels from a special building (or something else) in a main world where most players is. In the main world you can play mini games with other players and other fun stuff.
The interface is simple, it has a message-box, friend and ignore boxes and shows what power ups you have.
Thats how I would want a knytt online game to be.
I have imagene it otherwise. Every player will create his own character. Than he will collect experiences and some coins when they will finish quest. You will be able to for examlpe collect herbsd his own house etc. But if you have some ideas lets post it. I will think about it.
Salmoneous you idea was very simple and its very similiar to Knytt Experiment.
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Than he will collect experiences and some coins when they will finish quest.
I dont like that idea. Coins would mean a whole money system which would suck and no quests. It shouldnt be about collecting coins. And no kind of experince either becoase then it would be some kind of a level system and that would be quite pointless.
You will be able to for examlpe collect herbsd his own house etc.
I never liked the idea with having a house.
I think it would be best to have no goal at all. Leveling up, become rich and have the best house.
It should be about creating levels and play them online, unlike your original idea my idea is unlimited.
What would be more fun in the length?
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Than he will collect experiences and some coins when they will finish quest.
I dont like that idea. Coins would mean a whole money system which would suck and no quests. It shouldnt be about collecting coins. And no kind of experince either becoase then it would be some kind of a level system and that would be quite pointless.
You will be able to for examlpe collect herbsd his own house etc.
I never liked the idea with having a house.
I think it would be best to have no goal at all. Leveling up, become rich and have the best house.
It should be about creating levels and play them online, unlike your original idea my idea is unlimited.
What would be more fun in the length?
I don?t like your idea too, because is similiar to Knytt Experiment. You can finish it download source and work on it. I don?t want to do this game hoI think the better is create one good game which will be limited but funny and creative.
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My idea came from boxtop who first thought off knytt stories online.
I think the better is create one good game which will be limited but funny and creative.
maybe I wasnt clear. How do you think exactly that would work as a mmo. There is one world with a town and some houses and you do quests and have your own house and go around and find coins. It could be fun but not for very long and it would still not make a good mmo. A mmo should be built like a
community, otherwise it shouldnt be a mmo. Every sucessfull mmo is like that.
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With rude sarcasm you wont achieve anything but disrespect.
I don't see a point in announcing your preferences here anyway, as you are not going to realize it, and I dare say neither will anyone else in the upcomming months.
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I go with salmoneous, i hate rpg's it doesnt fit in knytt at all
Going with a knytt experiment world multiplayer would be great, finishing levels co-op and stuff like that ;)
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Knytt online seems very possible.
We need someone to host the initial router service so we can all be connected.
It does take up alot of space to hold so many users data and the game doesn't seem to be getting done.
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You'll need a dedicated server to support many members.
If you're a good programmer, you might be able to use a max of 4kb of data to transfer between the server and the player.
4kb seems alot, but I'll explain later why I say 4kb.
If you have 4kbyte of data, you have 4x8=32 kbit of data.
If you have a good ADSL conncetion, you usually have 1 Mbit upload. 1 Mbit is 1024kBit.
If you were to allow your entire upload stream to be used, you would be able to host: 1024/32 = 32 users. Unfortunatelly, you won't be able to get a constant 1024 upload stream. (yes, they promise you to get it, but usually you get between 600~800kbit. Lets assume you can have 800. You'd get 800/32 = 25 users max.
Now obviously, you'd not sacrefise your entire upload stream for this. Even if you have a good connection, it is unlikelly you'll give up that much for a game like this. Not to mention, that at that point you'll be going to put your pc online all the time, otherwise people cannot connect.
Seriously, unless you have a dedicated server (which costs alot of money) this is a no-go for a MMO.
Now, I mentioned earlier why you'd need atleast 4kb of data.
4kb of data is 4096 characters in one transmission.
Sending out data to the server is not a problem, but unluckelly, thats not the place where alot of information is being send. Its the receiving part that has the problem.
When you send your data, you'll be sending your location along with an identifier for your player. The server needs to know who you are so it can update your location in its map.
It will then send back what is happening around you. (sending every data would be a bandwidth killer anyway)
Say, there are 10 users in the same screen as you, the server would be sending you their locations and their names.
Depending on wether you're going to store the world on the server or on the client using updates would also be a role in this.
Lets assume you store the world on the server, the first thing you'd need to transmit, is the screen's layout. (so all the layers and where you can walk etc). This can happen every time you visit a world without getting who's on the screen yet. (this will most likelly also take up 4kb)
Next you'll need to store all the users that are on the screen with their names. You'll need a precise (pixel precise) location of the users along with their names.
So lets say the screen is 600 pixels wide and 240 pixels height, you'd need 2 bytes (256*256) for the width, and 1 byte (256) for the height followed by the name.
Now obviously someone would want to chat too, so if there's a message, we would need to send the message too.
Now, if you add functionality, like: the player is jumping etc, these actions should also be added to this list, so you can make it look more natural and less jagged on the client side. (otherwise, players will appear to warp through the screen rather than walk.
As you see, its not as easy as it looks.
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I'd make just a server and client button, allowing users to join servers, or make their own. For the server a connection to an online central database that stores all the servers and their IP, and clients retrieve this list. This divides the amount of connections, everyone can show their level, are responsible for their level to keep online, and set a max join to not overload their upload.
As a developer there's no need to lift all the burdens on your own shoulders, pass it to your users if they want it all so much ^^.
If only this blasted mysql connection fromout MMF2 was working...
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I think it's pretty silly to argue about how this "game" should be. If nobody can agree on anything about it, there's no point in thinking about it, because it would only work if people effectively collaborated on it (and I think this is ultimately not going to happen).
The only way I see it potentially working is if Nifflas (or someone else who is well-respected here and high in status) actually works on the idea and finishes it in a way that is accepted by at least half of the community here (100%, even 75% is probably not going to happen here no matter what). If that doesn't happen, people will probably just go with their own ideas of what makes a good online game and nothing will be agreed on. >_>
I, for example, think this whole idea is pointless. I much prefer playing games on my own where silly kids won't get in my way or spam nonsense at me.
And I think shit tastes better than candy. Sorry, I thought he was making a sarcastic joke too.
And that is rude (I think this violates at least three rules).
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I tried to make that point, but people just submit their ideas along :crazy:.
If anyone comes with a working version, no matter how it works, it'll be gladly accepted by everyone. I'm sure of that. Improvements can always be made on the way.
I once read the proposal of making a MMO Knytt without chat. I think that's a great idea. Only communicate through movements and animations. But as 4a states, if nobody works on it, nothing will happen, and all ideas will be in vain :p.
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If you're going to use a website script to keep all the bits and pieces together, you'll get alot of performance issues. The only way to do this properly, is to make the game flashbased, so you can use it to directly connect to the mysql database. (or another form of webclient, like java, javascript, etc)
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MMF2 has a database connector, but I have not yet got it working properly. Otherwise I'd do it via the mysql API in C. It's quite easy actually. Once you, as a client, have the ip to your desired server, for what I have read you can use MooGame to connect to this server. Once that works, rests a rebuild of whole Knytt Stories to implement multiplayer characters, which is the most hard thing, probably.
Questions arise like:
How do items impact on multiplayer... can multiple users have the same items? Or do they need to divide them? If player A walks through a red key block, can player B pass as well? Can players share items? It's easy to say yes to all of these questions, but is that really such a wise decision, gamedesign-wise and technical-wise?
Should chat be implemented? Or would that ruin the actual meaning of Knytt? To create a great experience, a moody environment without LOLs and RAWRs... Are sore animations perhaps a better way to play with eachother? Then again, many users may find the game too boring and cease playing, leaving the online worlds utterly empty (but however it turns out, I don't expect to have more than 10 players at the same time playing anyway).
The more you say "let's do the most awesome option", the longer one is busy to develop. Until your project became so big it will be abandoned. This is one of the main reasons why projects fail. Keeping it simple is very important, and it may prove to function much better than a game with all kind of jingles.
So, anyway, just to make a point: if you happen to be interested in following a course on gamedesign later in your life: try to think for every idea that comes up how much it is related to your actual goal. Is the trouble of implementing your feature really a benefit for the game, beside that it sounds awesome? Are there perhaps other, more realistic or simple ways of reaching the true goal that I want? Keep being skeptic about your ideas and always keep in mind that the most simple solution is often the best.
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It might be interesting to have a setup like The Endless Forest (http://tale-of-tales.com/TheEndlessForest/)'s: players can communicate, but only non-verbally.
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Will it be within a browser (Like Kingdom of lothing) or a .exe file?
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Will it be within a browser (Like Kingdom of lothing) or a .exe file?
I'm hoping it will be in a browser because, if it were a .exe that changes, it would be a HUGE one! D:
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I don't see how you could run a MMF game in a browser. (Although it's already possible to run GM games in a browser.) And the .exe itself wouldn't necessarily have to change. But, unless you want to play an extremely dumbed-down game, the game will have to be reasonably large. It might be possible to maybe have areas themselves just loaded from a server as you enter them, and kept in a cache or something. But I don't know that they'd be that big anyway.
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I don't see how you could run a MMF game in a browser.
Not sure it it is the right thing, and not sure if it works, but after google...
http://www.clickteam.com/epicenter/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=89235
(Ctrl+F>Browser)
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I don't see how you could run a MMF game in a browser.
If I remember correctly, you change the build type to an internet application and embed it in a webpage.
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Ic.
In order to connect to a mysql database, you must have mysql installed locally. If you have a webserver with mysql installed on it, it is most likelly the case that a firewall blocks your connection to mysql because its not locally. You can talk with your webhosting to verify that, and they might be able to open a connection for your ip so you can develop.
My hostings, Nifflas' hosting and J's hosting, all block mysql connections if they're not locally unless you have an IP added to the whitelist of the firewall and in Nifflas' and my case, also in cPanel.
Ofcource, you could also compile the build, upload it, and then test it.
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I agree with the "keep it simple" philosophy.
I believe in players will be enthralled by having a KOW, even if the map is static and there are no objects. Bells and whistles can be added later.
Let's just see a nice smooth-working netcode, and go from there.
Also, about decisions like how locked doors and special objects should react. I think if special gameplay things are to be decided, the inter-player physics might be a more interesting device :
There could be buttons that need to be held down to open doors, so one player would have to hold the button while the other goes through.
A lso maybe make it possible to piggy-back another player to help him reach a higher ledge? (that one might be hard, but it'd make coop gameplay fun)
Those are just ideas though, I say a working game where two or more people can explore the world together would be awesome by itself anyway.
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In order to connect to a mysql database, you must have mysql installed locally. If you have a webserver with mysql installed on it, it is most likelly the case that a firewall blocks your connection to mysql because its not locally. You can talk with your webhosting to verify that, and they might be able to open a connection for your ip so you can develop.
My hostings, Nifflas' hosting and J's hosting, all block mysql connections if they're not locally unless you have an IP added to the whitelist of the firewall and in Nifflas' and my case, also in cPanel.
Ofcource, you could also compile the build, upload it, and then test
Well, that's actually a funny story. When I bought a domain on my host, applications could hook up on that domain's database just fine. Then they changed security policies, and gone was my connection. I sent them mails, and they offered me to move to a different server where this was still allowed. I gladly accepted. Now they closed this server's external security as well, and I am tired of mailing them once again. But since it's so cheap (~20 euro a year) I stick to here.
So, now I have a database set up locally. But for some reason, since a reinstall of Vista nothing seems to work fine anymore. phpMyAdmin works via my local web server, but applications still can't connect to the database. It's not an issue of MMF2, because more of my C applications refuse to work.
(to be continued...)
As for the browser stuff.
Vitalize is a plugin made by clickteam to put games online.
Here is a page with all kinds of multimedia fusion games:
http://www.madword.com/
So it's perfectly possible.
There could be buttons that need to be held down to open doors, so one player would have to hold the button while the other goes through.
A lso maybe make it possible to piggy-back another player to help him reach a higher ledge? (that one might be hard, but it'd make coop gameplay fun)
Yes it makes coop fun, but also deviates alot from the original game, which I feel somewhat bad about. If people make games for online multiplayer, I think they should still be playable on single player, just to not ruin the fun for those who have very limited availability to the internet. IMO, Knytt is one of those games that should be available to everyone, with or without internet. And that includes the custom levels. I'd be pretty disappointed if I could not play an awesome looking level just because it's multiplayer only.
Anyway, it's just a matter of opinion. I'm not sure if that statement is even valid in practice.
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Okay :)
It makes me wonder how hard it would be to create something like this using php and javascript.
I think its possible and not that hard.
Php->image to generate the screen, javascript to control characters moving on it. If necessary you could make it to draw each tile so the loading time would be less. Then somehow move a knytt ontop of it by move an image across the screen. It'll be harder to get the animation right, but I think it'll work. There doesn't have to be all kinds of powerups like Knytt Stories, just the regular move/jump would be enough. Optionally a shift to create teleportation so you can say... move into a house etc.
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If you manage to communicate between MMF2 and PHP, you may be able to generate one screen... but no more. You probably don't want to refresh the page with a max speed of a frame per two seconds...
Browser plugins don't usually use php, but handle the stream they receive from the server and forward it to your video device.
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Php is not the output. Php generates output.
Basically it goes like this: Server->php->html->browser.
So communicating between PHP and MMF2 would be the same as to communicate between php and the browser. Through cookies and printing directly on the screen.
But since php will only load the page once and then it has to refresh, the only thing you want php to do is render the background which happens when you enter/leave a screen. The moving of players etc, would be done using javascript.
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Aha, I understand what you mean. Then I too think this is very well possible. You just have to create a small knytt binary or folder parser into readable (hint: XML) data.
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I wouldn't use XML for that. mySQL would be more sufficient for that too, because its very fast, and combining the control it gives you, it can actually outperform file operations.
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If you manage to communicate between MMF2 and PHP, you may be able to generate one screen... but no more. You probably don't want to refresh the page with a max speed of a frame per two seconds...
Browser plugins don't usually use php, but handle the stream they receive from the server and forward it to your video device.
Little off-topic, but http://looki.icr38.net/knytt/maps/ :P
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I wouldn't use XML for that. mySQL would be more sufficient for that too, because its very fast, and combining the control it gives you, it can actually outperform file operations.
MySQL is for storing data, but I believe what you want is not needed to be stored. MySQL is fast, but slower than XML, and it's transfer overkill. Nevertheless it's possible through a database. If you want more features instead of just showing one image of a level, then it might be more handy to use one.
Little off-topic, but http://looki.icr38.net/knytt/maps/ :P
That looks good, but what is it doing exactly? Unwrapping the binary and show all graphics? Would be fun if you manage to capture a live stream from a knytt game, so you can see the player :).
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farout..I feel like working on Knytt Online again..but I'll never finish it :(
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MySQL is for storing data, but I believe what you want is not needed to be stored. MySQL is fast, but slower than XML, and it's transfer overkill. Nevertheless it's possible through a database. If you want more features instead of just showing one image of a level, then it might be more handy to use one.
I know. I'm actually thinking of generating stuff rather than showing just one image, because just one image generates alot of bandwidth for a screenload, while storing each tile in a tileset and then loading a map with images like that, will be alot faster (if done properly).
But I guess my optimisation knowledge is not really usefull if you don't know how, and I can imagine that its already very hard to get just one image to show up and then have interaction being done on it.
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I have thought of how I would want a knytt online game to be like. Nothing like what you guys had in mind really...
Ok, Knytt online would be about making levels and then share them and play them online.
Knytt online would have the same editor as knytt stories only that it would be upgraded so
it has more stuff. First thing is a new layer that will make things go in front of the player.
Then more objects like everything from first knytt game and much more.
When the level is done you go into knytt online and upload it to the knytt online database.
In the level database players can see the newest and most popular levels. They can also see
how many people plays the levels. And for more fun the players can leave comments and rate the
levels.
You aces the levels from a special building (or something else) in a main world where most players is. In the main world you can play mini games with other players and other fun stuff.
The interface is simple, it has a message-box, friend and ignore boxes and shows what power ups you have.
Thats how I would want a knytt online game to be.
Please read the whole thing
The idea of having lots of different levels in one big database and having everyone play them isn't really what I wanted, and I really don't like it for many reasons:
1) Someone could be making a forest level but then someone else could be making a desert level, and there won't be a gap of levels in between.
2) The tilesets will be different for every level which will make the graphic style change a lot
3) The levels might not join together..and I wouldn't want to modify a few 100 levels once they're submitted just to make them connect.
and
4) The difficulty style will range to very easy to lunatic for each person's level..which could get annoying.
As I was thinking about all the other ways that the concept of uploading you levels and making them into a giant world..I then came up with a solution, and a much better idea (that's my opinion).
My Idea is not a Knytt online game but a Knytt Online Level editor. What happens is that instead of you creating your levels by yourself, the level editor will be online. So there will be like 20 people working on the one level and you can see everything they're doing. Like I could even make it so you can see the other players mouse cursors.
But that's the first part. Once everyone works together to make the whole world then the next part is to actually play the game. And what makes it even better is that if you get bored of the world you can easily add more levels to it.
If you still don't know what I mean then it's pretty much like having a Real Time Based Level editor where everyone can see each other building stuff. My whole plan for Knytt Online was to have one huge world instead of lots of different levels.
So what do you think?
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I can't really see having that sort of immediate collaboration working out very well. (Getting 20 people to agree on something would take a while.) But just allowing submissions would cause just as many problems. I think it'd work best to have some sort of master plan for the layout of the entire game (that is, like, different areas and their themes and sizes, and how they relate to each other), and then specifically ask well-regarded level-makers to make levels according to these specifications. (Like, "make a desert level X tiles wide and Y tiles high, using this tileset, and with no mandatory jumps of over three tiles width.") That way, it'd be possible to strictly regulate the difficulty and transitions and such, but also allow variety in the style of different individual areas.
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1) Someone could be making a forest level but then someone else could be making a desert level, and there won't be a gap of levels in between.
2) The tilesets will be different for every level which will make the graphic style change a lot
3) The levels might not join together..and I wouldn't want to modify a few 100 levels once they're submitted just to make them connect.
and
4) The difficulty style will range to very easy to lunatic for each person's level..which could get annoying.
1) I don't get 1. A gap?
2) Why different? If someone host with a custom level which the client doesn't have yet, the host simply sends the file and the client waits and installs it.
3) Modify? 100 levels? Connect? Eh? :/
4) The difficulty level is of course different for every person, but if you think server A has an annoying level, then you just join server B, big deal :P.
Perhaps you've gotten the wrong idea of what I'm making there. You can either join a server, or be a server. Being a server will place you on a list, the lobby. One particular level will be loaded for now, but in the future you may select a level you wish. You can then wait for people to join. You, as a client, can simply join by going to the lobby, where every server's IP is shown, and select one, press play, and load the level (if you don't have it yet, you'll download it automatically). So, there's not one gigantic big world, there may be many. If you feel like hosting one, then you got one.
I think your idea about the online editor is nice, but you'll nonetheless get stuck on the same reasons you got stuck with Knytt Online. However, I don't see much more fun in an online editor than the more simple way of hosting and joining online games by individual people.
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1) Someone could be making a forest level but then someone else could be making a desert level, and there won't be a gap of levels in between.
2) The tilesets will be different for every level which will make the graphic style change a lot
3) The levels might not join together..and I wouldn't want to modify a few 100 levels once they're submitted just to make them connect.
and
4) The difficulty style will range to very easy to lunatic for each person's level..which could get annoying
That sounds like KE.
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In KE, you have a balloon, and there are no death objects, so there's not really any sort of difficulty.
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1) Someone could be making a forest level but then someone else could be making a desert level, and there won't be a gap of levels in between.
2) The tilesets will be different for every level which will make the graphic style change a lot
3) The levels might not join together..and I wouldn't want to modify a few 100 levels once they're submitted just to make them connect.
and
4) The difficulty style will range to very easy to lunatic for each person's level..which could get annoying.
1) I have no idea what you mean there.
2) Different grahpic style is a bad thing?
3) what are you talking about?
4) Just like in ks the auther would set the proper difficulty of the level.
Everything you say is a problem isnt a problem or make muh sense. Your idea would have many problems thought. Like... what if someone wanted to delete the entire world huh?
With my idea there wouldnt be any probelms (Not any problems that would be easly solved). There is a level database. With the database you can search how you want so you can find any level you want very easy. There would be a report funktion so you can report a problem with the level to the mods, like copyrighted music or it contain pictures of sex and puking ppl for example. The other players could coment and rate the level. Just think of it like the new knyttlevels archive that LPChip is doing but online.
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fuck this, all I wanted to make was like an online RPG for Knytt...but everyone else wants a bloody database that's exactly like Knytt levels.com
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Knytt ≠ Knytt stories.
This would be like Knytt, not Knyttlevels. Like an online community of knytt.
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Wait. I thought we'd keep things simple.
Current objectives:
- See eachother walking in a knytt stories level.
Future objectives:
- Interaction with items.
I think that would be enough to open up a whole new strategy of designing online games. And I'm just following the easiest way to achieve this. No bells and jingles.
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That's what I was saying!
..but nooooo.....
Either I have the wrong impression on Salmoneous' idea or he has the wrong impression on mine.
SALMONEOUS, you don't download other peoples games and play them, this is going to be an online (rpg) where you can interact with other people and see them and explore with your friends in the ONE and ONLY WORLD that we're going to make for the game.
If you don't like my ideas on this project (Which I started in the first place) then just wait until J someday updates knyttlevels.com! >(
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Wait again. I said it'll be individual servers for now. I don't have the resources to hold up one giant world on one server! Calling to the database is less heavy than constantly streaming player data to each and everyone. So I lay the traffic to the individual level hoster. And going from multiple individuals to one main level is not a big step, technically-wise.
Dynamite, you did start the project, and you did a great job. But you quit, and handed the project away, or discarted it at least. You'll need to let some of your ideas go.
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I might consider re-making Knytt Online...just to make it my own way how I wanted it to be.
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There could be two Knytt onlines?
One which would be similar in gameplay to "The endless forest".
i.e: minimal gameplay elements in a relatively large and stylized universe, on a single server.
And the other which would be closer to KS, with multiplayer elements.
i.e: One player starts a server on his computer, and other players connect, and then they play together (maybe it's a coop adventure or something?)
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I want to do this game like World of Warcraft. There will be one world same for everybody. Later we will repair bugs, lags and extend the World. Everyone will be able to start his own server but with same map or if you wish with your own world. Everyone will chose one character which he will like mostly and with her he will play on server where he create her. That chracter will touch up and evolve. And so servers needs to run no for example 10 min or one hour. Servers needs to be run for larger time. This is my primal idea at work on KOW. I want this and nothing like Salmoneous idea he wants to create something what was already done (bit diffrent) Knytt Experiment. If you want to create game like you write everywhere so do it and make your own topic. Dont write here ideas like before in this topic. This game will be diffrent that you want. Make up with it.
And Dynamite don?t be . I don?t like it.
If someone has suggestion so write it here.
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I want to do this game like World of Warcraft.
There's no need to read that comment any further.
Just no.
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Either I have the wrong impression on Salmoneous' idea or he has the wrong impression on mine.
I dont have the wrong impression on your idea. No, no.. no.
SALMONEOUS
DYNAMITE :crazy:
(Which I started in the first place)
Sure, you started to create a game but Boxtop came up with the idea off playing knytt online.
I want to do this game like World of Warcraft. There will be one world same for eve...blablabla blah...
It is nice that you have an idea and our ideas are very different. But I still cant figure out how you think at some points, same with Dynamite. for exapmle, What would a knytt envolve into? That sounds very weird and those ideas dont belong into the knytt universe (like a knytt-rpg).
The best way off making a fan-game is to stick to the basics and not try and do the opposite.
I mean, if you want to do a knytt online game dont make it into something that cannot relate to Nifflas knytt games, its just wrong.
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I believe Dynamite is very well capable of creating what he imagines, and I support him all the better to achieve it.
I also completely agree with Gaeel.
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I also completely agree with Gaeel.
Me too :)
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It should have cows in it. Simply because this idea is abbreviated KOW. :D
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It should have cows in it. Simply because this idea is abbreviated KOW. :D
:D Good :D
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Really? KOW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/octanol)? :P
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It should have cows in it. Simply because this idea is abbreviated KOW. :D
Kingdom of Wailing :O
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fuck this, all I wanted to make was like an online RPG for Knytt...but everyone else wants a bloody database that's exactly like Knytt levels.com
Easy there sailor.
I like this forum becuase people are usually so calm, but wow... Something like thsi project sure can blow things out of proportion.
So you got two diffrent ideas. As I see it, the main problem is this:
Dynamite wants Knytt Online
Elder (to heck with yoru new name :crazy:) wants Knytt STORIES online.
Aka, Dynamite wants one big world, like Knytt, while as Elder (there we go again :crazy:) wants KS levels to be playable with friends.
Both seem like fun to me. I don't really see why we can't have both.
I mean, would it be so hard to have an overworld from where you can access KS levels? Isn't that what Boxtop was suggesting from the start?
Geez people, calm down and try to settle this like reasonable people instead of bickering children.
Also:
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What's the point in swaying on old discussions? :P
To give a status update:
Nobody is working on KnyttOnline anymore but myself on occasion.
Don't expect anything fancy but the very basics of multiplayer.
And who's formerly name was Elder?
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What's the point of NOT doing it? :crazy:
I also wanted to post thos images. Cuz' I find them funny.
Salmoneous was previously Elder, and before that, he was Cactus Hat, If I remember correctly. 'Guy changes his name too much.
Also, just moving around together sounds like fun eneough to me. Atleast to start with C)
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What about an online Knytt Experiment but you can see other people playing. Instead of you being all alone seeing other people's levels, you can see other Knytt creatures which are other people playing from around the world.
My brain keeps telling me that I've got too much stuff going on and I'm too busy...
but my heart is telling me to just start this project all over again.
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... Rii-ight.
Oh well.
Uhm, I think that would be nice yes. However, I always found KE quite boring.
I think we should go back to the idea boxtop had from the start, with levels playable being accessed from one overworld.
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I personally would prefer a Knytt Online to, as Didriking puts it, Knytt Stories Online.
I don't really see why we can't have both.
Having both means twice as much work (except where the projects cross over).
P.S. I'm pretty sure Salmoneous was Elder before he was Cactus Hat. I like Elder best too.
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P.S. I'm pretty sure Salmoneous was Elder before he was Cactus Hat. I like Elder best too.
Salmoneous reminds me of Salmon..it also reminds me of a guy called salamon who's an idiot.
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What about an online Knytt Experiment but you can see other people playing. Instead of you being all alone seeing other people's levels, you can see other Knytt creatures which are other people playing from around the world.
That is what I wanted all along. But we have to think about this first: is someone going to host the game server on their home internet connection or on a dedicated server? Dedicated servers are expensive, but I can't see how running the server on a home internet connection would be very reliable. (Unless I'm missing something?)
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Indeed, a server would be needed. Unless we set up a bittorrent-style system, where whenever you play you host for a few other people, share the load, no dedicated server. But that would be horrifically complicated to set up.
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bittorrent-style system
A what?
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He means peer-to-peer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer-to-peer).
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P.S. I'm pretty sure Salmoneous was Elder before he was Cactus Hat. I like Elder best too.
Salmoneous reminds me of Salmon..it also reminds me of a guy called salamon who's an idiot.
Why is there a disscusion of my name?
um.. anyway.
My idea is fully based on boxtops.
I have nothing agenst Dynamites idea, I just think it needs a little more thought.
And if you want to do it, Dynamite, Do it!
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So, would peer to peer mean you can't really get full access to the world. Just a few players?
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P.S. I'm pretty sure Salmoneous was Elder before he was Cactus Hat. I like Elder best too.
Salmoneous reminds me of Salmon..it also reminds me of a guy called salamon who's an idiot.
Why is there a disscusion of my name?
um.. anyway.
My idea is fully based on boxtops.
I have nothing agenst Dynamites idea, I just think it needs a little more thought.
And if you want to do it, Dynamite, Do it!
Becuase you change it too much D:
So, would you still like an overworld from where players choose levels, or...?
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Becuase you change it too much D:
Sorry about that.
So, would you still like an overworld from where players choose levels, or...?
Some kind of overworld where you can aces the levels from.
An overworld would be good for many things.
It could be a meeting place for players.
And I thought about a point system.
After beating a level you will get points, depending on the level difficulty.
For the points you can buy outfits and stuff in the overworlds knyttish shops.
And in the overworld there could be mini games you can play with friends and compete for more points.
So the overworld would be a place where players could hang out when tired of playing levels.
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And I thought about a point system.
After beating a level you will get points, depending on the level difficulty.
For the points you can buy outfits and stuff in the overworlds knyttish shops.
And in the overworld there could be mini games you can play with friends and compete for more points.
So the overworld would be a place where players could hang out when tired of playing levels.
Bah. Why not just a simple Knytt community like in the video?
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Here's our problem. We plan all these features and doo-dads for a later version of the game without getting the basic engine done.
I propose that all discussion of future features cease untilwe have a working engine where players can see other players.
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Becuase you change it too much D:
Sorry about that.
So, would you still like an overworld from where players choose levels, or...?
Some kind of overworld where you can aces the levels from.
An overworld would be good for many things.
It could be a meeting place for players.
And I thought about a point system.
After beating a level you will get points, depending on the level difficulty.
For the points you can buy outfits and stuff in the overworlds knyttish shops.
And in the overworld there could be mini games you can play with friends and compete for more points.
So the overworld would be a place where players could hang out when tired of playing levels.
Right, then I'm all with you.
But as the others say, we should focus on this:
Some kind of overworld where you can aces the levels from.
An overworld would be good for many things.
It could be a meeting place for players.
for now.
I think getting a basic engine and atleast a small overworld should be top priority. After that, we should get a way to access levels.
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Follow the Kasran, people :P2
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I propose that all discussion of future features cease untilwe have a working engine where players can see other players.
Dynamite already did that.
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Dynamite did not.
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Dynamite did not.
What's this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVa06ilrBeI), then?
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Owned.
What it's in the video looks the most agreeable to me, compared with some of what I've read in this thread.
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I have received his source, and that was not even near finished.
But it was based on Knytt Stories rather than Knytt.
And since the thread started with the knytt stories version, I assume that is the latest one, and that's the one we talk about.
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Nobody said anything about it being finished. Kasran suggested that it's most important to establish a working engine, and the ability to see other players. The video shows a working engine, and two players. (And not much else.)
The video was posted nearly eight months ago, and Dynamite didn't dump the project immediately after posting it, so there must be some progress beyond the absolute basics on display in the video.
Also- since the video clearly shows a basically functional multiplayer setup (and chat dealy), and since Knytt is open-source- would it be possible to set up just Knytt itself with multiplayer? (No chat, even. That'd get distracting.) I'd be really interested in having multiplayer Knytt, especially since it wouldn't involve any controversial new features, and it'd be good PR, showing that the project is really possible.
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I have never seen the source of knytt online, just the source of knytt stories online, which is frankly a whole new engine, and the multiplayer must have been made from scratch. The progress in this source was much less than in the video. It connects, but that's all. A black square represents the other player, no chat, no "move to next screen".
Yes, it would be possible to set up knytt with multiplayer, without chat. And that's what I've been doing the last 3 months, though not with knytt but with the latest official knytt stories build from Nifflas. Players are moving around, but somehow I screwed up the engine cleaning loop, and I have no idea why.
To a further notice, I have set up an SVN server with the knytt stories online project set up there.
If anyone is interested, and you have Multimedia Fusion and a little knowledge with subversioning, feel free to PM me and I'll send you the SVN details.
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...wait since when is there Knytt Online and Knytt Stories Online as separate things? :S And why, if there was already so much progress on the one?
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I love the idea of a multiplayer knytt games, but what if it was designed where you could challenge another player to a test of skills on, say, a difficult level, just as a way to have competition. Also, somewhat related, if we had this system, we could choose the best overall player to rate the levels for a "score" system mentioned in another topic... but that is a little off topic...
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Googoojoob: I don't know, I got this source from moleherd, and the readme.txt says:
The project was created by Andrew Noel (Dynamite) and was passed onto Moleherd.
This particular version was based upon an older build of KS though, so I decided to do this from scratch again with the newest build.
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Hello. I wasn?t there for a while. But when I came there I state that there is not to much change in there. There are still people who post their ideas. I know that you have ideas and you want to tell them to us and get them into the game but we should start with basic game (as it was spoken many times before). I recomend to Joozey and Dynamite do theire work (good work boys). They do lot of work to make this game. So please hide your ideas to the future when basic version of game will be done. If you want to help so program something, made graphic or music. Nothing else isn?t needed now.
Your Moleherd
P.S.: GO BOYS !!!
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Don't you mean: nothing else is need, not isn't?
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Don't you mean: nothing else is need, not isn't?
yes sorry :)
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The progress I made with the engine after I posted the Youtube video failed.
What I mean is, the Youtube video is pretty everything that's working in the engine. I have upgraded the engine but that is the reason I gave up. Ever since I added more features the engine and coding began collapsing and nothing started working again.
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EDIT: Actually, If I remember clearly, after I saw the "Knytt Online Concept idea" post in the old forum (I can't find that post anymore :( ) I made a comment saying something like:
"Making an online game is quite simple. I've been working with a few online games for a while and I might help out if a project ever starts."
After a while I received a PM from Moleherd saying something like
"I read your comment on the 'Knytt Online Concept' post and I was wondering if you want to start the project with me."
This was like 1 year ago so I don't remember much.
Anyways, straight away when I received that PM, I began working on the first Knytt Online engine. I finished the engine in about 1 hour. That online engine is the same online engine that is in the video. After another few months there haven't been much updates other than the level design and more.
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An hour? That was fast :D.
Why don't you join in again Dynamite? We only aim to get the basics done, and the network stuff (joining and leaving a server in a list) works fine enough, it's just the rest that I fail on X).
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I wanna help.
I can, uhm... I can... I can make funny propaganda, yes, yes I can! :crazy:
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Good news! I've un-abandoned this project! :crazy:
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So we are getting a Knytt Online after all? :D
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Yes, but it could be a while.
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:)
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Hurray! Excellent news! C)p
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Oh, this is excellent! :D
Will you release at least a partial source so others can make their own online games? Because that would be awesome.
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W000000000-t h00000! \\\\o////
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\\\\o////
That's kinda creepy..
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What Joozey and I are trying to achieve is so you host you own Knytt levels and you can play them with other people online, but this is cool cause you can make a level that requires 2 or more people to finish it.
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What Joozey and I are trying to achieve is so you host you own Knytt levels and you can play them with other people online, but this is cool cause you can make a level that requires 2 or more people to finish it.
Sounds awesome, I could never have thought that out. You idea-stealers. :/
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What Joozey and I are trying to achieve is so you host you own Knytt levels and you can play them with other people online, but this is cool cause you can make a level that requires 2 or more people to finish it.
Oooh. You mean there can be a level such that one guy must fall to his doom in the pit of spikes to let the others get out?
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Well that?s the whole point in multiplayer, isn?t it :p.
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What Joozey and I are trying to achieve is so you host you own Knytt levels and you can play them with other people online, but this is cool cause you can make a level that requires 2 or more people to finish it.
Sounds awesome, I could never have thought that out. You idea-stealers. :/
Well we loved your ideas so we decided to use them. :D
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What Joozey and I are trying to achieve is so you host you own Knytt levels and you can play them with other people online, but this is cool cause you can make a level that requires 2 or more people to finish it.
Sounds awesome, I could never have thought that out. You idea-stealers. :/
Well we loved your ideas so we decided to use them. :D
Ok... I thought you hated my ideas.
Could I help in any way?
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Yeah if you have multimedia fusion, or networking knowledge.
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The game will lag if the user has horrible internet connection... DX
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The game will lag if the user has horrible internet connection... DX
Um... don't you mean XD? Anyway, sounds totally awesome, can't wait!
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The game will lag if the user has horrible internet connection... DX
Um... don't you mean XD?
XD Is a bit happy in this context. Anyway, this sounds cool! Allthough lag would be pretty much inevitable. :(
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I meant, just switch the letters... instead of DX, X/D (there, no face this time XD)... woops!
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Hi how work goes on? What have you done yet?
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I've almost finished the movement engine, I just have a few glitches to fix and some finishing up to do ;)
So the Movement Engine:
80% done
Hosting levels, main menu, registering, and log in:
10% done
Total game progress:
50% done
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Wuuuhuuu!! \o/
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good :)
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No, I dont want to help out, I changed my mind. You stole my ideas, you will most likley mess up or not even finish it.
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Dot Dot Dot.
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No, I dont want to help out, I changed my mind. You stole my ideas, you will most likley mess up or not even finish it.
WTF is your problem. Everyone else agreed on your idea...so we decided to use it. We didn't want to have a concept that nobody would like, let alone play. I even PM'd you that we liked your idea.
What the fuck man...
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Just for everyones record, I'm not actively involved anymore as I took my project on a different track. I'll function as a support system now for knytt online.
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No, I dont want to help out, I changed my mind. You stole my ideas, you will most likley mess up or not even finish it.
That was kinda out of order. Why the aggressive pessimism?
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That was kinda out of order. Why the aggressive pessimism?
They just take my ideas without asking and will make it into their game, to their profit.
And based on what Dynamite's erlier thoughts I dont think he could make it good.
I even PM'd you that we liked your idea.
No you didnt. I never got a pm.
What the fuck man...
Ok, Im sorry. Stop saying fuck.
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What you claim to be your idea is the most logic way to follow for an online cooperative Knytt game. If you really want to make a difference in this, come with some real useful input such as graphic design, in-depth multiplayer networking or mapping the technical problems that will certainly occur when desiging cooperation levels.
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Can?t wait
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Geez guys. Time to take a chill pill me thinks.
Why can't you discuss this without acting like bickering children?
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The project has been on hold, I have no idea what Joozey is doing at the moment.
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Uh, nothing... deadlines are haunting me.
Did you need me for something?
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Uh, nothing... deadlines are haunting me.
Did you need me for something?
No not really, I've just been getting side-tracked and doing things like making Knytt levels and stuff. Depends what mood I'm in.
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Okay.
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BAM
I comes out of no wheres! :awsum:
so hows it going? progress?
i just wanted to know what was happening...
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Lessee, Dynamite took over again. I changed course and still planning to head that course, but notebook crash ftw. Dynamite did something on the original knytt online idea, I'm sure he'll tell soon enough ^^.
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im sorry
but this project is 1 year old
and it's getting too old
so i dunno wat to do
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Well, how far through are you, and how motivated are you to finish?
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Depends...do you guys DESPERATELY want this to be released. Cause when I'm working on it I feel like I'm wasting my time...
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I don't want it all-caps desperately, 30 pt font, but it would be very nice to see it released.
And you're definitely wasting your time.
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And you're definitely wasting your time.
wait, what? O_o
That's a very odd way to try and convicne someone to work on something.
Anyway, if you can't finnish it dynamite, maybe you shoudl release what you've got to the public, and maybe someone else will pick it up.
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He did that already Didriking.
But Dynamite needs to finish this and be done with it, it wont let him sleep at night :P2.
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Oh.
...
Man, do I feel stupid now. I'm gonan go sit in the corner over there.
Before I go, I just want to say that, I don't think Dynamite needs to do anything he doesn't WANT to do. I'm pretty sure his life is more important than us getting to play Knytt online. Maybe.
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Well I took over, then Dynamite wanted to take back over. So you tell me :P.
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Wait, so, was it released to the public, or only to you?
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Both Joozey and I have the source code. I AM still working on it but very little cause I hardly have any time for it.
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It would probably be a LOT better for us if you could make a custom objects engine first. Not to say Knytt Stories Online is a bad idea (if it works, it'll be great), but a custom objects engine is what this game desperately needs to make it great.
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And you're definitely wasting your time.
wait, what? O_o
That's a very odd way to try and convicne someone to work on something.
*scribble scribble scribble* NOT wasting your time. Now I feel stupid.
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It would probably be a LOT better for us if you could make a custom objects engine first. Not to say Knytt Stories Online is a bad idea (if it works, it'll be great), but a custom objects engine is what this game desperately needs to make it great.
That's what I've been doing o______________o
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/xD
oh wow......
oh wow......
Anyway, what do you have left to do other than coding?
the map?
etc?
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You've been making a custom objects engine :whoa: ? Awesmoe! Will it be compatible with the current KS level editor and also KSA? I hope so! Keep working! (considers pulling out slave driving whip, thinks better of it, and prays instead that this will be finished fairly quickly)
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It would probably be a LOT better for us if you could make a custom objects engine first. Not to say Knytt Stories Online is a bad idea (if it works, it'll be great), but a custom objects engine is what this game desperately needs to make it great.
That's what I've been doing o______________o
I got mistaken,
I haven't been doing that. I thought Bored2Death said "Custom Engine" so I said I am doing it. What do you mean by Custom object engine?
Look, with Knytt online you just upload your levels and download them in the game itself. You cant see other players, you can't see there character, there is no puzzle maps that you can play with other people.
It's just upload and download.
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Sounds like knyttlevels.. :( :S :ohnoes: :|
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Wait, how is it Knytt ONLINE, if you can't see other people?
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What about that video you uploaded where you were two players hopping around in a world and chatting with each other? Did you scrap that idea?
Seems to me like it wouldn't need to be more than that.
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Yeah, me and my friends would be happy with only that if we where able to build a litle more on the world.
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What about that video you uploaded where you were two players hopping around in a world and chatting with each other? Did you scrap that idea?
Seems to me like it wouldn't need to be more than that.
Firstly, that video only supported 2 people. If a 3rd person joined then the game would have glitched.
Secondly, The whole reason why I quit was because the online engine was too hard to make. I will pretty much need to modify every single individual object which will take forever, and I will also need to change the entire level editor... I'm not doing it again to avoid abandoning this game a second time.
So right now it's just an upload your level and download other levels in the game, I might add a small chatroom in there.
But there is a catch. I will regurlarly update the game (using automatic updates), adding new features and such. Maybe, just maybe I can add that online-multiplayer feature. ;)
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Just to clarify what I meant by a custom objects engine:
An engine that allows you to program custom objects more than just animations. For example, giving them the power to kill Juni, or move when she gets so close, or doing SOME action when it touches her or she gets near. Something like that.
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I wouldn't support a custom objects engine. I'm not sure if I like KSA either, but who am I to judge. Knytt Stories is fine as Nifflas left it IMO, but an additional online option where people see people would be nice, but as said, very hard. I am eager to see what Dynamite is able to make :).
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I wouldn't support a custom objects engine. I'm not sure if I like KSA either, but who am I to judge. Knytt Stories is fine as Nifflas left it IMO, but an additional online option where people see people would be nice, but as said, very hard. I am eager to see what Dynamite is able to make :).
Nifflas said he wants to implement the Custom Object Engine, he just doesn't have the time to write it. He said, however, that if someone writes a custom object engine that he likes and if it meets these rules (I'll go pull up in a second) he'll implement it into KS.
Firstly, that video only supported 2 people. If a 3rd person joined then the game would have glitched.
Secondly, The whole reason why I quit was because the online engine was too hard to make. I will pretty much need to modify every single individual object which will take forever, and I will also need to change the entire level editor... I'm not doing it again to avoid abandoning this game a second time.
So right now it's just an upload your level and download other levels in the game, I might add a small chatroom in there.
But there is a catch. I will regurlarly update the game (using automatic updates), adding new features and such. Maybe, just maybe I can add that online-multiplayer feature. ;)
Just a shot in the dark here, but have you thought about teaming up with rrc2soft? From what I understand he is rewrite every object for KSDS.
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I wouldn't support a custom objects engine. I'm not sure if I like KSA either, but who am I to judge. Knytt Stories is fine as Nifflas left it IMO, but an additional online option where people see people would be nice, but as said, very hard. I am eager to see what Dynamite is able to make :).
Nifflas said he wants to implement the Custom Object Engine, he just doesn't have the time to write it. He said, however, that if someone writes a custom object engine that he likes and if it meets these rules (I'll go pull up in a second) he'll implement it into KS.
Firstly, that video only supported 2 people. If a 3rd person joined then the game would have glitched.
Secondly, The whole reason why I quit was because the online engine was too hard to make. I will pretty much need to modify every single individual object which will take forever, and I will also need to change the entire level editor... I'm not doing it again to avoid abandoning this game a second time.
So right now it's just an upload your level and download other levels in the game, I might add a small chatroom in there.
But there is a catch. I will regurlarly update the game (using automatic updates), adding new features and such. Maybe, just maybe I can add that online-multiplayer feature. ;)
Just a shot in the dark here, but have you thought about teaming up with rrc2soft? From what I understand he is rewrite every object for KSDS.
I don't think he can join with rrc2soft because he is using palib to make the ds game.
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Well, you could use just a little tileset and a small number of objects for the online chatroom as it is in your video. Something like a little platform without a big number of graphics.
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This is just sad... 161 posts and no progress. Thank god I'm not apart of this community anymore.
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This is just sad... 161 posts and no progress. Thank god I'm not apart of this community anymore.
That's very helpful, thanks a lot. :sigh:
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Look, with Knytt online you just upload your levels and download them in the game itself. You cant see other players, you can't see there character, there is no puzzle maps that you can play with other people.
It's just upload and download.
Wtf.. how do you think? I don't get you, your first project you cancel and then you say you want to do it like I said but now you're just going to fuck it and do that? What's the point, it wouldn't even be an online game it would be just like ks! If you cant interact with other players it wont be online you smock, it would be a stupid ks copy.
Secondly, The whole reason why I quit was because the online engine was too hard to make. I will pretty much need to modify every single individual object which will take forever, and I will also need to change the entire level editor... I'm not doing it again to avoid abandoning this game a second time.
You are a quieter, you wont take your heart into making this game and work a little so I can already see it will blow. If you want to make a good game you wouldn't care about how long it would take or about how hard it is to make it you just do it. But, you wont and you will fuck up.
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Look, with Knytt online you just upload your levels and download them in the game itself. You cant see other players, you can't see there character, there is no puzzle maps that you can play with other people.
It's just upload and download.
Wtf.. how do you think? I don't get you, your first project you cancel and then you say you want to do it like I said but now you're just going to fuck it and do that? What's the point, it wouldn't even be an online game it would be just like ks! If you cant interact with other players it wont be online you smock, it would be a stupid ks copy.
Secondly, The whole reason why I quit was because the online engine was too hard to make. I will pretty much need to modify every single individual object which will take forever, and I will also need to change the entire level editor... I'm not doing it again to avoid abandoning this game a second time.
You are a quieter, you wont take your heart into making this game and work a little so I can already see it will blow. If you want to make a good game you wouldn't care about how long it would take or about how hard it is to make it you just do it. But, you wont and you will fuck up.
I agree with you 100%
All i've beem hearing Dynamite say is "Well you know it's never going to be done". We really need someone to lock this topic. The game has been killed, and Dynamite is playing with it's corpse. That's my theory.
All infavor of this topic to be locked?
Aye
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Oh how I saw this coming :hedgehog:
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All infavor of this topic to be locked?
Aye
Aren't there others still working on this, or did Dynamite hold all the keys or something?