THIS is exactly what I logged on to post today!!

"Hmm..I wonder what Nifflas is up to" because I was playing SubaraCity on my iPhone and its music reminded me of Within A Deep Forest and Knytt Underground

I've been gaming since the 1980s and Nifflas is one of my favorite developers. I really wish he were more active, at least in updating his fans about what he's working on

A "little" late but I'll join in and say may you have many many more years making many many more awesome games!

Thank you for all the fun and adventure so far @Nifflas

either way i like your approach 'no talk' just tell story through pictures. but that could be lots of hard work. for example instead of having a conversation you'll have to make animations etc. to create a scene.

Yeah, I can't draw or animate like those talented people at Amanita, so it'll probably have to be like the creatures in KU (the Epsilon?) that talk in symbols.

But I'm not really a game developer, so my opinion isn't very relevant.

That's OK, I'm not really a developer too, yet (just lots of unfinished experiments lying around, nothing published) which is why I wanted to know what other aspiring developers/designers thought was the most convenient genre to express themselves in.

the problems come with limitations in dimension- and space restrictions. 2d sidescrollers i think is the most cursed genre because the player becomes so confined. unlike other genres i feel like you're never playing or seeing beyond the layout. every jump or obstacle you avoid or enemy you have to pass,  You just can't have a 2d sidescroller that is played any way unlike it is intended. this genre is old and quite frankly have not played any innovative ones since knytt but i do miss out a lot and theres like hundreds.

I see where you're coming from, but that's a problem with top-down RPGs too: the view is equally limited, just from a different angle, but that doesn't stop developers from designing a complex world or telling an engrossing story, as you can see in Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Ultima, Chrono Trigger and so many other JRPGs.

Even 2D platformers can have exceptions to that rule; just look at our Knytt Underground, or Limbo.

KU gives you the freedom to go in any direction and complete quests in any order. What's really genius about it is how it uses photorealistic background images to give you a sense of depth. Instead of the world feeling confined, it actually feels HUGE! Combined with the music and overall atmosphere, I haven't gotten this kind of feeling from any 3D games lately.

Limbo on the other hand, despite doing everything to feel depressing, like the monochrome graphics and a linear path, actually ends up giving you a sense of freedom through the realistic physics interaction. The kind of interaction that's missing from the biggest 3D games.

I can't wait for someone to combine the ideas of KU and Limbo to create a hybrid which challenges the notion that 2D platformers have to feel outdated or confining.

you're gonna do it in a way the developer meant for it to be done, like your entire progression through the game does not differ from any other play through.

That annoyed me too, especially during some of the precise robot-dodging puzzles in KU, but it's not a problem unique to 2D platformers. It happens in other genres too, even 3D ones: Remember Dragon Age and Mass Effect where you couldn't jump over knee-high stones in the way or even walk up and down small, 2-inch changes in elevation, unless there was a predefined path there?!

In fact, the only game where I've seen almost-complete freedom of movement and exploration was World of Warcraft..

most 2d scrollers have the story advance through dialogue boxes with characters you are set up to run into. That is both lazy and no fun. it doesn't matter if these people have other things to say or do either. This is why themes is important, good thing i said that before. otherwise your dialogue have no purpose beyond information and you just waste time. another reason i think 2d scrollers are cursed is because they can't handle many cinematic approaches, which is usually why I imagine one would go for 3d or a 3d world in a 2d environment if they want to get serious with a story. In a 2d scroller the players character is always in the center or is the focal point of attention. Meeting people / discovering things is hard to get interesting when missing that dimension and it always kinda becomes that you stumble upon these things.

I agree about dialog limitations crippling a story, but again that's not a problem with 2D platformers alone. Remember the King's Quest series? Or all the NPCs in Skyrim that repeat the same things over and over?

And again, there are creative solutions to this as well: You can tell a good story with using ANY dialog at all!

Look at Limbo, or Machinarium and Botanicula and other games from Amanita Design.

Even in KU, you can cover vast distances without running into any character, but the beautiful backgrounds tell a story without using any words: "Oh look, bits and pieces of machinery deep down in this cavern, there must have been a civilization here!" or "Aww those cute little houses hanging from the cave roof..won't they be cold? Oh, there's some lava flowing underneath, that must be where they get their heat from."

I believe the less words they use the more the player's own imagination is engaged.

TL;DR: In the end, most of the problems are present in every genre, but a more limited genre forces the developer to become more creative.

Hey, don't go discounting a whole genre just because it's mostly text

I'm not discounting it, I'm just excluding it because my question was about which genre indie developers found to be the easiest to implement their idea for a story or world in, otherwise text adventures would obviously be the answer for everyone.

Also, you can't convey some things through text alone: like "You are a bouncing ball" in WaDF. "You can now become a glass ball which is very brittle." Things like that just need a bare minimum of graphical representation and real-time control for the player to properly "feel" it.

I love text adventures and interaction fiction. They're just not pertinent to what I wanted to ask.

Have you played much interactive fiction?

I was gonna say, "besides text adventures"

Yes I've played em since Zork etc. but never managed to finish one..

I'm not sure what physics based puzzles have to do with a witches exam. Shouldn't mastery of magics be the key to success?

Oh no, I mean physics-based gameplay. You know, like NightSky or Limbo. Realistic interaction with the environment/scenery. Here's an example:

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The player and her pumpkin/ball come across a ditch filled with water that the witch can't cross (she doesn't have the water-walking spell yet.)

There's a weak-looking tree on the other side of the pit.

The player switches control to the pumpkin, bounces to the other side, and pushes the tree over the ditch by bouncing into it, creating a path for the witch to cross.

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There will be other scenarios like where the witch has to push around boxes so the pumpkin can jump higher, and using the pumpkin itself as an stepping stone for the witch, and so on.

A big drawback I see is if it's Metroidvania, then you'll have to navigate to collaborative areas twice. Maybe, Mimi could carry Pumpum around. Or, maybe there could be stations where one character could summon the other.

This is what I was thinking. The witch would get a Summon Familiar spell early in the game that teleports the pumpkin back to her. For balancing reasons maybe we could limit this spell to only work inside specially-placed pumpkin-patches? These could also work as save points.

Designing a large map that can be navigated and re-navigated as a witch and as a pumpkin will be a large challenge. In Knytt Underground there are many places which are easy for the the sprite to walk through but highly annoying to traverse as the ball. It sounds better suited to a level based design to me. A Mario-world map would allow for replaying levels with new abilities.

I'm picturing this game's world design as a mix of KU and WaDF: A single huge map divided into areas that can't be entered without specific abilities, along with some doors and portals that lead to self-contained "levels" as in WaDF.

At the center of the world will be the Witches School in the Witch Village. In the school there will be a chalkboard with a checklist of spells that Mimi has to learn before she can attempt the final exam. There'll also be a list of locations written on the board where each spell can be found, like: "Water-Walking spell - The Haunted Forest."

SO the player has to go each area, get new spells similar to how the ball gains new materials in WaDF, return to the school if needed, then go to the next area. Like WaDF there will be a balance of linearity and freedom to the order in which different areas can be visited. Some areas will require specific spells (like an island on the other side of a lake which can only be reached with the water-walking spell) and some areas will be accessible at all times.

The ultimate goal will be to return to the school after all spells have been collected, then enter the final level where Mimi has to use all those spells to pass.

Of course this is just my current vision, feel free to adapt and improvise as you see fit.