Nifflas' Support Forum

General => About Nifflas' Website and Forum => Topic started by: farik on March 10, 2009, 23:26:15

Title: Download?
Post by: farik on March 10, 2009, 23:26:15
used search, can't seem to find a download link. is there one on the site? thanks fellers.
EDIT: nevermind, found it through google. but maybe there should be an easier to find link on the site?
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: googoogjoob on March 10, 2009, 23:39:32
Ey, um, did you look on the main page? The description of the Knytt Experiment subforum has a link to the zip file in it (as do all game-related subforums).
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: farik on March 11, 2009, 15:51:53
ahaha :oops: i thought clicking that just brought you here? or something? oh whatever, LOCK HER UP C)p
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: J on March 12, 2009, 23:07:33
All the effort it takes is to hover mouse above the link and see where it takes you. "Hey, a link to a .zip file? Maybe that's the forum link!" doesn't sound too convincing to me. :huh:
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: KG on March 13, 2009, 00:19:06
All the effort it takes is to hover mouse above the link and see where it takes you. "Hey, a link to a .zip file? Maybe that's the forum link!" doesn't sound too convincing to me. :huh:

I would consider downloading the forum in a ".zip" file. Sounds like fun.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: Gaeel on March 13, 2009, 00:56:32
All the effort it takes is to hover mouse above the link and see where it takes you. "Hey, a link to a .zip file? Maybe that's the forum link!" doesn't sound too convincing to me. :huh:

Most people don't really read mouseover links, as explained here : http://paulverona.powerblog.com/blog.php?post=3452903 (http://www.yougotrickrolled.com/)

Anyway, I think either a sticky with a download or a more obvious link like :
Det Officiella EDGE Dataspelet - DOWNLOAD! (http://www.yougotrickrolled.com/)
Discuss anything related to "Det Officiella EDGE Dataspelet" here.

Or both?
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: Miss Paula on March 13, 2009, 11:38:15
Frankly, that would make the index more and more cluttered. :S
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: Kasran on March 13, 2009, 21:09:08
All the effort it takes is to hover mouse above the link and see where it takes you. "Hey, a link to a .zip file? Maybe that's the forum link!" doesn't sound too convincing to me. :huh:

Most people don't really read mouseover links, as explained here : http://paulverona.powerblog.com/blog.php?post=3452903 (http://www.yougotrickrolled.com/)

Anyway, I think either a sticky with a download or a more obvious link like :
Det Officiella EDGE Dataspelet - DOWNLOAD! (http://www.yougotrickrolled.com/)
Discuss anything related to "Det Officiella EDGE Dataspelet" here.

Or both?
You might think you're smart, but I'm smarter and did not fall for your childish tricks.
I used the power of mouseover. >:3
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: Razzorman on March 13, 2009, 21:22:24

Everyone doesn't do that though. It is much better to have a forum designed to be easily accessible than to demand that people change their browsing habits.
Most people are naturally going to assume that those links go to the sub-forum, and then never bother to check them. What if we did something like this? Im sure it wouldn't clutter the forum very much.

Car Game (http://nifflas.ni2.se/forum/index.php?board=18.0)
Discuss and download (http://niffpage.greywool.com/files/Games/Nifflas%27%20Car%20Game.exe) anything related to the "Car Game (http://nifflas.ni2.se/forum/index.php?board=18.0)" here.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: googoogjoob on March 13, 2009, 23:31:41

Everyone doesn't do that though. It is much better to have a forum designed to be easily accessible than to demand that people change their browsing habits.
Most people are naturally going to assume that those links go to the sub-forum, and then never bother to check them. What if we did something like this? Im sure it wouldn't clutter the forum very much.

Car Game (http://nifflas.ni2.se/forum/index.php?board=18.0)
Discuss and download (http://niffpage.greywool.com/files/Games/Nifflas%27%20Car%20Game.exe) anything related to the "Car Game (http://nifflas.ni2.se/forum/index.php?board=18.0)" here.

Having two links to the same forum, one in the title and one in the description, is redundant. With the forum as it is now, there is one link to the subforum (in its title), and one link to the game (in the description). It doesn't make sense to assume that there would be two links to the same subforum that close to each other- even if that's what people would tend to do.

The old forum had
Quote from: The old forum.
Official Levels
Discussions about the official levels. You can download them here.

With "download them here" being a link. (None of the other subforums had this sort of link.) I think that would work out best here, even if some people will still skip over the description and complain about there not being any links. 9_9

And the habit of looking at the mouseover link dealy is a good habit anywhere (so like you don't end up at spyware.net or something when you think you're going to a YouTube video), and not something people would have to force themselves to do just at this forum.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: Shawnachu on March 14, 2009, 00:15:37
All the effort it takes is to hover mouse above the link and see where it takes you. "Hey, a link to a .zip file? Maybe that's the forum link!" doesn't sound too convincing to me. :huh:

Most people don't really read mouseover links, as explained here : http://paulverona.powerblog.com/blog.php?post=3452903 (http://www.yougotrickrolled.com/)

Anyway, I think either a sticky with a download or a more obvious link like :
Det Officiella EDGE Dataspelet - DOWNLOAD! (http://www.yougotrickrolled.com/)
Discuss anything related to "Det Officiella EDGE Dataspelet" here.

Or both?
You might think you're smart, but I'm smarter and did not fall for your childish tricks.
I used the power of mouseover. >:3

I fell for it.

Then I fell for it again.  :P2
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: Razzorman on March 14, 2009, 10:24:23
It doesn't make sense to assume that there would be two links to the same subforum that close to each other- even if that's what people would tend to do.
Design doesn't always make sense, so some people are not going to investigate something that doesn't.
For example, in the WaDF theme, there is a picture of night sky form WaDF, which is also a link to the forum index. That doesn't make sense either, because one could just click the Nifflas support forum link in the directory thing. Yet it is there.
Having the download links like that doesn't make sense, but a lot of people wont think about it enough to come to that conclusion.
Also:
Quote
Standard forum design says that those links take you to the forum itself or something forum related.  Many people miss the download links because of that.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: LPChip on March 14, 2009, 12:05:26
I'm moving this to About Nifflas website and forum, because this more general than just Knytt Experiment.

On a sidenote: The download links are a bonus. They are also on the unofficial Niffpage (at greywool) like it has been before. And games like WaDF, Knytt and Knytt Stories are also accessable from the mainsite (http://nifflas.ni2.se).

Really, having the download links on the mainforum is just a bonus. By this topic, you now know it exists.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: Miss Paula on March 16, 2009, 21:10:30
like I said, something like that would make the index look very cluttered. Because it is a big list of boards, which would get simply bloated with "Download here" in every line. <_<
Also, Nifflas' home page links to the niffpage. So actually, it shouldn't be TOO hard to find stuff if people would actually use their brain while searching...
...in fact, the same goes for the links. Apparently you expect "standard forum design"/ "good UI", although that'd be, as goog mentioned, retardedly redundant (at least I'd think so).
I wish people could just be expected to read. :moody:
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: chipset on March 16, 2009, 23:43:46
I cannot really see why people think that the board descriptions need to be changed for clarity. It is not very hard to move your cursor over the links to see where they lead to. Also, I think that the news announcement on the top of the forum should help out anyone who is still confused. :/

Perhaps the only minor thing that could be added to the links is a popup message (when you have your cursor over the link) that says "Download link to <game>" or something like that, but this is not really needed either.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: BloxMaster on March 17, 2009, 04:08:56
I think this is really unreasonable. It's not hard to check where a link goes, and in addition, after what seems to be at least five topics on the matter, everyone should be well aware of the download links by now. I'm not even sure why people are complaining; would they rather have no download links at all and be wondering 'where to download' even more? In any case, you should be able to find anything you need here (http://www.ni2.se/files/) and here (http://niffpage.greywool.com/). If people would just check those two locations, they probably wouldn't need fancy links on this forum at all (nor need to ask where to download). I guess I don't see why it's worth complaining about.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: SiamJai on March 17, 2009, 04:23:05
Also, Nifflas' home page links to the niffpage. So actually, it shouldn't be TOO hard to find stuff if people would actually use their brain while searching...
Indeed. Nifflas' main website is the first step to look for these games, and for the record, "Cheese in the Sky" is actually introduced on Nifflas' site as "Everything you can't find here".

Sooo. If I want to look for Bagatelle, and I can't find it on Nifflas' site, what would be the logical next step? Clicking the link that's marked "Everything you can't find here" and going from there is as simple and obvious as it possibly could be. And then, as a bonus for the more observant, we have the forum links. :)

I guess I don't see why it's worth complaining about.
Me either. Storm in a teacup?  :P
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: BloxMaster on March 17, 2009, 20:39:38
If being quite honest is the same as having a bad attitude, then I must be rather awful. You can't blame us for being rather annoyed at people asking the same questions over and over, when the answer has been provided time and time again. But now that you understand the answer, what is it you want? All I see is that a lot of people are complaining about the solutions given. How do you expect us to react? I and others who have posted have been really nice, I think. I don't really know what you want out of this. We may be harsh at times but we mean well, we give solutions, answer questions, but it seems you don't want any of that. So, other than trying to insist that we are all wrong and treat 'people' (I assume you mean yourself) badly, what is it that you want? It's not mean and cruel to ask for that is it?  :/
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: Razzorman on March 17, 2009, 20:59:56
Quote
You can't blame us for being rather annoyed at people asking the same questions over and over, when the answer has been provided time and time again.
And why is that? Because they can not find the links, even if they are on the main page. It simply isn't clear enough that those are download links, because if it was, nobody would ever have asked.
Yes, they could just mouse over the links to see where they go, but that is far from a usual habit for a lot of people.
As far as I can see, nobody has really been complaining, just suggesting ways to make things easier for new people. If you don't like those suggestions, then fine, but its not unreasonable to try to make things better.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: LPChip on March 17, 2009, 22:19:38
If we want to adress the issue, then its not by altering the index page of the forum. I understand that it might not be conform design specs, but it wasn't ment to be there in the first place. We simply added it as a bonus. The main site offers all the downloads and people should look there in the first place too. True, many people google and end up on the forum rather than the main page, but there isn't much I can do about that. The mainpage could not be that clear, but I can't do much about that either.

The links are there however and its quite easy to find on a page that doesn't offer that many choices. You click the tab links and it gives you the link you need. All the links on the index page of this forum point to files on the page that is being refereed to from the links page on the main site.

Really, this is just a bonus. If you can't agree with the fact that the index page has links presented like this, then we could ofcource choose to remove this, but why would we want to remove something that is handy once you know how it works?

You now know that it works like that, and even if you mistakenly would've clicked it (which you obivously didn't do either, or you would've known) you would have been presented with a "Do you want to open or save the download?" question. You could have cancelled that and then thought: hey, this is handy!

Really, enough has been said by various people about this subject. I can understand that it might not be the most straight forwarded thing to have there, but as its just a bonus and not a dependency, I am not going to change it.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: Gorfinhofin on March 17, 2009, 22:30:56
Hey, how about we put one more obvious little message somewhere that links to the Niffpage?
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: googoogjoob on March 17, 2009, 22:49:17
The old forum had a news topic about the NiffPage.

There's also a link in the FAQ.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: Dandelion on June 04, 2009, 05:52:34
It doesn't make sense to assume that there would be two links to the same subforum that close to each other- even if that's what people would tend to do.

If we want to address the issue, then its not by altering the index page of the forum. I understand that it might not be conform design specs, but it wasn't ment to be there in the first place. We simply added it as a bonus. The main site offers all the downloads and people should look there in the first place too. True, many people google and end up on the forum rather than the main page, but there isn't much I can do about that. The mainpage could not be that clear, but I can't do much about that either.
Frankly, it makes absolutely no sense to have the download links to downloadable games on a forum dedicated to them as a not-so obvious "bonus." As for people ending up on the forums instead of the main site, you could just have
"To download Nifflas' games, visit the Niffpage." at the top. That wouldn't "clutter" the forums at all, and would prevent a lot of confusion. By the way "Niffpage" is a link.
Quote
Really, this is just a bonus. If you can't agree with the fact that the index page has links presented like this, then we could ofcource choose to remove this, but why would we want to remove something that is handy once you know how it works?
No one is saying to remove the links. We're trying to make it easier for people new to the site. How would you feel if you were visiting a site for the first time, and you couldn't find something? You ask and get the answer, but you're treated like you asked a stupid question and should be expected to search harder. Some people would be scared away from the site for that.
Quote
You now know that it works like that, and even if you mistakenly would've clicked it (which you obivously didn't do either, or you would've known) you would have been presented with a "Do you want to open or save the download?" question. You could have cancelled that and then thought: hey, this is handy!
So people are expected to discover a feature by clicking in the wrong place accidentally?! That makes even less sense then the download links being a "bonus!" As I said, having the link to the Niffpage at the top would solve the problem, except for the ignorant people who don't look at all. The downloads shouldn't be "hidden" in any way.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: googoogjoob on June 04, 2009, 07:43:43
It doesn't make sense to assume that there would be two links to the same subforum that close to each other- even if that's what people would tend to do.

I'm pretty sure that's just an SMF default thing.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: Dynamite on June 04, 2009, 07:55:38
I don't get this topic. He doesn't mention what he wants to download?
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: Dandelion on June 04, 2009, 08:06:01
I don't get this topic. He doesn't mention what he wants to download?
This was origanally posted in knytt experiment, but the discussion quickly became more general, so it was moved. And can't you change the defaults? It's kind of redundant. It's not a big deal though.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: Miss Paula on June 04, 2009, 14:46:27
What the hell. Why don't you all just stop whining and go trust even the worst idiot to read at least the news bar? And put up with redundancy before you complain and nag about stuff that works good enough as is.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: 4a on June 04, 2009, 18:00:04
I don't know what the situation was before (when this post was made), but if someone is actively looking for a game, they should be able to find it.
The news says the downloads are there, and they're there. Also I found the main site before finding the forum (if you search on Google for "Nifflas forum", even, the first thing that comes up is the main site), so yeah. I don't get what the complaints are for.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: Dandelion on June 04, 2009, 18:16:44
What the hell. Why don't you all just stop whining and go trust even the worst idiot to read at least the news bar? And put up with redundancy before you complain and nag about stuff that works good enough as is.
Most everyone who is suggesting making the download links clearer already knows about them. We aren't whining, we're trying to make things easier for those new here. Even if you do read the news bar, it may not be entirely clear at first. If it was, you likely wouldn't have to answer so many questions about the downloads. And I was just wondering if you were able to change the defaults. It really barely matters. It's clear that you're not going to change it, but could you at least be nice to people who suggest you should change something instead of saying that the site is fine and that the problem is anyone who doesn't think so?
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: Razzorman on June 04, 2009, 19:04:25
Dandelion, you are whining. This "argument" was brought up way before the text in the news bar was written, and if you ask me, that pretty much solved the problem.
Before, the problem was that people had trouble finding the links. Now, the only problem I can think of would be that some may not have good enough English to understand the news bar, which is kinda hard to do anything about.
The problem is solved, so quit complaining.
Title: Re: Download?
Post by: LPChip on June 04, 2009, 19:16:48
What the hell. Why don't you all just stop whining and go trust even the worst idiot to read at least the news bar? And put up with redundancy before you complain and nag about stuff that works good enough as is.

I so agree with Paula here, that I'm locking this topic.

All points have been made, and this is as good as it gets! Take it or leave it.

*locked*