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Knytt Stories / Re: PFrangip's Lunatic Level Reviews
« on: July 08, 2020, 19:57:10 »
Pfrangip,
I can't tell you how gratified I am that you considered my recommendations and then played and thoroughly analyzed them. Not to mention astounded by your skill and creativity in completing them.
I think we're both largely on the same page with how difficult classifying level difficulties can be. It's easy to see how designers can get it "wrong" since they are immersed in a level's creation. But often players disagree due to having different skillsets or predilections or even due to variable luck during gameplay.
I have some notes regarding your reviews. Please understand that they aren't meant to dismiss or overly criticize your intelligent and careful appraisals. Only to offer a different perspective and additional information. If I didn't mention a level, assume I agree or understand your critique for as far as I was able to progress in the level.
Who Kidnaps The Knytts?
I disagree with your evaluation of it's fairness and/or difficulty level. I had to quit part way through (I'm guessing a bit more than halfway?) due to a precise platforming area, but even before that, locations of some keys and code pieces didn't seem reasonably possible without consulting the editor. And in addition, those same challenges involved extremely precise platforming if you could even conceive of their locations on your own.
When you say: (Reading my old review, I seemed to have found it much more difficult. I guess I've improved with age.) I would hope you evaluate difficulty in the place of an average or the majority of KS players as much as possible as opposed to your personal experience as an adept. Though, to be honest, I haven't had many opportunities to exercise such Platonic contemplation and restraint myself, so I'm not sure how difficult it actually is.
Juni's Nightmare
Just wanted to mention I ascribe to a 'one drop' definition of difficulty. If in a giant easy level, there is one lunatic challenge that cannot be bypassed in order to achieve a normal ending, it's a lunatic level in my eyes.
Silver Lining
I knew this might make me appear foolish when I recommended it. I know I just need to be more creative or more patient, but I've spent hours trying to figure out the correct sequence of shift progression and exploration required to get a good ending to no avail. I think difficulty encompasses more than just platforming and enemy dodging precision. I wish someone would stream this so I can figure it out.
The Tower
You might know this, but although there is no ending scene, there is a reachable win tile with a default "You Win" screen.
It's possible that this level was released unfinished. I believe it's also possible that every aspect of its design, or lack of design, is intentional.
This level has haunted me. It's satisfaction can be most understood not through it's gameplay nor by the supporting narrative or lived-in world, but by the experience you go through ascending into increasing bewilderment and ultimately madness. The experience feels similar to that elicited by internet golden-age horror copypastas or ARGs. As the creator of The Five Minute Hallway (neat level), I'm surprised you may not have noticed a similar possible inspiration.
It remains, in my mind, one of the hidden, unsung important levels of KS. I think everyone should play this once they know they enjoy the game, have developed decent skill at it and have a good knowledge of how to view the editor. I have no shame in using the editor or otherwise cheating past some parts. I don't think it diminished the experience for me.
It's possible that few or even no others will have a similar experience with The Tower. Especially now that I've spoiled the level's intentions and you won't go in without knowing anything.
Anyway, cheers and thanks again. I look forward to seeing your future reviews and other contributions to KS.
I can't tell you how gratified I am that you considered my recommendations and then played and thoroughly analyzed them. Not to mention astounded by your skill and creativity in completing them.
I think we're both largely on the same page with how difficult classifying level difficulties can be. It's easy to see how designers can get it "wrong" since they are immersed in a level's creation. But often players disagree due to having different skillsets or predilections or even due to variable luck during gameplay.
I have some notes regarding your reviews. Please understand that they aren't meant to dismiss or overly criticize your intelligent and careful appraisals. Only to offer a different perspective and additional information. If I didn't mention a level, assume I agree or understand your critique for as far as I was able to progress in the level.
Who Kidnaps The Knytts?
I disagree with your evaluation of it's fairness and/or difficulty level. I had to quit part way through (I'm guessing a bit more than halfway?) due to a precise platforming area, but even before that, locations of some keys and code pieces didn't seem reasonably possible without consulting the editor. And in addition, those same challenges involved extremely precise platforming if you could even conceive of their locations on your own.
When you say: (Reading my old review, I seemed to have found it much more difficult. I guess I've improved with age.) I would hope you evaluate difficulty in the place of an average or the majority of KS players as much as possible as opposed to your personal experience as an adept. Though, to be honest, I haven't had many opportunities to exercise such Platonic contemplation and restraint myself, so I'm not sure how difficult it actually is.
Juni's Nightmare
Just wanted to mention I ascribe to a 'one drop' definition of difficulty. If in a giant easy level, there is one lunatic challenge that cannot be bypassed in order to achieve a normal ending, it's a lunatic level in my eyes.
Silver Lining
I knew this might make me appear foolish when I recommended it. I know I just need to be more creative or more patient, but I've spent hours trying to figure out the correct sequence of shift progression and exploration required to get a good ending to no avail. I think difficulty encompasses more than just platforming and enemy dodging precision. I wish someone would stream this so I can figure it out.
The Tower
You might know this, but although there is no ending scene, there is a reachable win tile with a default "You Win" screen.
It's possible that this level was released unfinished. I believe it's also possible that every aspect of its design, or lack of design, is intentional.
This level has haunted me. It's satisfaction can be most understood not through it's gameplay nor by the supporting narrative or lived-in world, but by the experience you go through ascending into increasing bewilderment and ultimately madness. The experience feels similar to that elicited by internet golden-age horror copypastas or ARGs. As the creator of The Five Minute Hallway (neat level), I'm surprised you may not have noticed a similar possible inspiration.
It remains, in my mind, one of the hidden, unsung important levels of KS. I think everyone should play this once they know they enjoy the game, have developed decent skill at it and have a good knowledge of how to view the editor. I have no shame in using the editor or otherwise cheating past some parts. I don't think it diminished the experience for me.
It's possible that few or even no others will have a similar experience with The Tower. Especially now that I've spoiled the level's intentions and you won't go in without knowing anything.
Anyway, cheers and thanks again. I look forward to seeing your future reviews and other contributions to KS.
And dedicated as well, he has a 100% playthrough of the infamous Azure Serenity by Shreeps that totals around 9 hours! Unfortunately for me and other fellow non-French speakers, his commentary is entirely in French so I can't completely share in his joys, frustrations and puzzlements. His videos often have less than a handful of views, so hopefully the word can be spread so this knytt warrior can get a little more deserved attention. 