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Temporary => Knytt Stories Level Releases => Topic started by: egomassive on February 12, 2010, 17:40:37

Title: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: egomassive on February 12, 2010, 17:40:37

I present to you my first Knytt level, "A Knytt in Time". I consider this to be a legacy level. I've built upon themes and Knytt culture established in older levels. Foremost of these, it is a legend of Juni.

As far as design is concerned, this project started with the intention to use 3 custom tilesets to enrich and blend with the default sets. All gradients and songs were to be default. All cutscenes would be hand drawn and digitally mastered. As the level creation advanced I kept replacing more and more of the standard material. Here's how it ended:

Screens = over 700
Custom tileset = 8
Custom gradients = 19
Cutscenes = 10
Custom music = 0
Custom objects = 0
References to other levels = 8
Endings = 3

Spoiler: level references (click to show/hide)

2 of these are thematic, 3 are indirect, and 3 are direct. Fear not. None of the references in my level are in anyway spoilers for the levels referenced. Also, unfamiliarity with the referenced levels will not detract from the this level. Hopefully they'll add enjoyment for experienced Knyttheads. I won't list them here, because I think they're nice little bonuses to find. But, if you've played the level and missed some of them they are listed in the walkthrough (http://egomassive.com/2010/02/walkthrough-knytt-in-time).

Spoiler: no custom objects (click to show/hide)

I started making this before custom objects were possible. I put a lot of effort into using the standard objects in new and creative ways. I feel that using just one CO would be akin to flushing all that work down the toilet. As such this game should work with older versions of KS.

Spoiler: no custom music (click to show/hide)

The following is a list of excuses:

1.) It's a legacy level.

2.) The default music is pretty good after all.

3.) I have no musical talent. In the future I plan to collaborate with people who do.

4.) This is my first level. Cut me some slack please.

Preview pictures and the level link are here: egomassive games: A Knytt in Time (http://egomassive.com/2009/12/knytt-in-time)
I've made a walkthrough (http://egomassive.com/2010/02/walkthrough-knytt-in-time) for people who have trouble. If you didn't have trouble but want to know if you've missed anything it is also helpful.
I hope you enjoy playing it as much as I enjoyed making it.

Spoiler: Permission to use my graphics (click to show/hide)

Last bit of business, I'd like to discuss use of my graphics in other levels or tilesets.

1.) The gradients included with my level may be used and modified for use in other Knytt Stories levels. If they are 24px wide then credit is not asked for.

2.) The tilesets are marked individually. They may be used, modified for use, and borrowed from in other Knytt Stories levels/tilesets if they are marked "KS use/mod ok." No further permission is necessary. Please credit me on tilesets and levels using my work. If they are labeled "not public" or "do not use" then they contain the work of other people. No part of these tilesets may be used even if it was a part I made.

3.) With Markham Carroll's permission I am releasing a tileset based on his work which may be found on my website (http://egomassive.com/2010/2/Mertynn1). This set may be used but not edited. Please give credit to us both.

version 1.2, 02/15/2010: corrected some spelling errors.
version 1.3, 02/24/2010: Fixed an SGE in the forest, improved save point locations.
version 1.4, 03/03/2010: More SGE's in well and gorge, Missing Music and Ambi in 2 screens.
version 1.5, 03/20/2010: More SGE's in well, Logic issue with tackle box.
LoCP v1.0, 03/20/2010: New easy version released.
LoCP v1.1, 03/22/2010: Removing one of the dangers allowed players to get stuck.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: yohji on February 12, 2010, 22:42:05

I was one of the beta testers for this level, so I guess I'm biased, but anyway, I would like to recommend it as one of the best KS levels I've ever played. The complexity of stuff here pretty much rivals Farik's levels, and it's a terrific journey.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Teper on February 12, 2010, 23:28:19

I started playing this, the graphics are great. Maybe I was inatentive, but the storyline isn't obvious for me.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Klämrisk on February 13, 2010, 20:39:16

EPIC WIN

This level just made me find some faith in Knytt Stories again.
I remember the old days when levels like this came out every week...
Great level!  :)

//Klämrisk

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Widget on February 13, 2010, 21:12:39

Quote from: Klämrisk on February 13, 2010, 20:39:16

EPIC WIN

This level just made me find some faith in Knytt Stories again.
I remember the old days when levels like this came out every week...
Great level!  :)

//Klämrisk

It is, epically, awesmoe  :^^:

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Hmpf on February 14, 2010, 01:15:04

I second Widget's verdit of awesmoe; in fact, I think this may be a case where capitalisation is warranted. So: AWESMOE!

I've only just started playing this, and had to stop because I don't have the time to really play much, at the moment, but what you've done with the Mertynn Forest/Mertynn Caves tilesets is wonderful. It feels like the first time the tilesets have been used to full advantage.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: AClockworkLemon on February 14, 2010, 02:36:25

Drools......................

PS:
I liked the background so much i'm considering using the forest one in mah new level - hope yo don't mind! -
big creds to you!

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: rrc2soft on February 14, 2010, 03:32:18

Just started playing, and it looks really nice!  :D

PS: I put the level in the release candidate version of Knytt Stories DS (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=91.msg31683#msg31683), as a way to test the strength of the final version  :) .

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: theiza27 on February 14, 2010, 10:20:34

i will just round out the popular vote and say...

awesmoe :D

i only just strated the other day... but it's quite great... in all aspects: game play, story line, aesthetics... and i really enjoy how u put a few simple signs that make it a really good first timers level (to the point where i thought how great it would be if it were included in one of the first bundle packs when you first download knytt stories ;) )... but i've been playing for a while now so i'm probably a bit numb to distinguishing difficulties so this is probably a bit tough for a first timer... or am i wrong?

anywho... i might not be able to distinguish difficulties from an outside perspective that well anymore... but i'm still not that great at actually doing these levels lolz... so i'm stuck :(

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

i'm in the area where there's a large machine filled with black... and there are all those switches and pipe doors... and that sign is there that says you should only open hatches that have a red light because the ones with the green lights will kill you... it seems as though any direction i go its only circular... i can't seem to find anything... even though obviously i've missed something... and i can't get through the gem cave(?) because i think i need the eye? appreciate the help, thanks

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Klämrisk on February 14, 2010, 10:42:35

Answer:

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

If you go down, then right and then up you have circled the machine and ended up on the other side of the white barrier. If you then go right there is a time macjine...

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: RunMan on February 14, 2010, 11:27:14

I got kinda lost now, but I have to say, that I haven't played such a good level for so long... too long

If I had fav level list, it would go there immediately! :)

Great job

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Hmpf on February 14, 2010, 19:05:26

Played some more. Speechless with love.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Hmpf on February 14, 2010, 19:18:36

I think there's an SGE at the entrance to the Hamster Cave, though.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: egomassive on February 14, 2010, 20:15:48

I debated difficulty levels with my beta testers. In the end I decided normal was best.

Spoiler: more (click to show/hide)

The platforming never gets hard. At the most difficult parts there are always plenty of save-points. In this respect a hard label would be misleading. The problem comes after entering the machine room the first time. Before this point the game is linear. Afterwards, I let the player loose. For those who want guidance, I added a hint system, Grandma. I added cutscenes explaining the world and the plot. I've put in plenty of things to find and see in the world, so hopefully the player always feels rewarded for their explorations. It's true that finding the 3 remaining "pipe-heads" may be hard, and getting the bonus ending is very hard, but getting an ending only requires turning off 1 of the 3 (the correct one).

I stand by the normal rating, but if the cornerstones of the community protest I'll bow to their expertise.

btw: Glad you all like it so much. I put a lot of work into this.
@ AClockworkLemon: The tilesets in my level that include Mertynn parts are not to be used. But, there's a set I released with Markham Carroll's permission on my gaming blog. egomassive.com. It includes all the Mertynn parts and more.
@ Hmpf: I don't see anything. Can you be more specific?

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: WatcherCCG on February 15, 2010, 10:22:51

Okay, the girl you show the umbrella is now hungry. I saw an obvious-looking bunch of berries in the forest area, but even after I grab them, I can't give them to the kid. Help...

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: egomassive on February 15, 2010, 18:31:58

Quote from: WatcherCCG on February 15, 2010, 10:22:51

Okay, the girl you show the umbrella is now hungry. I saw an obvious-looking bunch of berries in the forest area, but even after I grab them, I can't give them to the kid. Help...

Spoiler: the little girl explained (click to show/hide)

Saying, "I'm... ...hungry." Is just to show that she has opened up to Juni. There is nothing more you can do for her besides saving the world. The berries have a different purpose. Grandma (in the present) will eventually give you hints about them.

I considered adding another cutscene there to flesh the story out better, but I had already used every scrap of game logic. I had no way of preventing the scene from reoccurring. I think the plot stands up as it is though, so my only regret is allowing players like yourself to feel like something else should be done there. Sorry about that.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: drwright on February 15, 2010, 22:59:32

this is simply a marvelously well thought out and crafted level... I absolutely loved it and I thank you for all the time and energy you and others put into this. All I can say now is: More please.....

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Hmpf on February 16, 2010, 00:59:16

Quote from: egomassive on February 14, 2010, 20:15:48

@ Hmpf: I don't see anything. Can you be more specific?

Something about the background - there's a corner there that looks unintentional, as if a tile is missing. But maybe it's intentional after all.

I played some more today... and I am actually kind of... really annoyed, right now, with one of the challenges. Well, actually not so much with one of them, but with the fact that there's a whole row of them, some of which require quite a lot of patience because you have to wait for a robot to finish its pattern several times over - and that whole sequence is without a single savepoint. I'm talking about the room with the time machine and the flying robot and the two buttons. There's a savepoint outside the cave, and that's it. So, you jump past the first fire-spitting critter, and the second and third, and that's easy enough, but then you get to the room with the flying robot, where you almost inevitably get killed plenty of times - and get sent back, every time, to before the fire-spitting wall critters. Which would be annoying, but not *truly* catastrophic. No, what sends this into ragequitting territory for me is the fact that once you've finally solved the bloody flying-robot-and-buttons conundrum, and used the time machine, you'd expect there to be a savepoint, wouldn't you? But instead, there's just another robot that is difficult to get past without getting killed another couple of times or so - and, since there is no savepoint, every time you die there, you go back again to before the fire-spitting wall critters and the flying robot and buttons purgatory. And that is just..... ARRRGH!

Seriously. That feels just a tad sadistic. Why not put a savepoint in with the time machine? Does anybody really *enjoy* having to repeat something fairly time-consuming that they'd just *finally* managed to do?

ETA: None of this changes my love for the look and concept of the level, of course.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: WatcherCCG on February 16, 2010, 04:21:04

That pissed me off too. When I run into dumb stuff like that, I try about 3-7 times, then bust out the Explore Challenge Cheat. I can beat Lunatic levels (with some patience), but when the stupid deaths start piling up, I WILL simply say "screw it" and teleport past an excessively annoying hazard.

That said, this was an awesome level and I loved it. I'm planning on starting LPing soon, and this level is definitely one I will do.

Also, where are all the toasts and Present-Anna? That's really all that's left on my plate now.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: egomassive on February 16, 2010, 06:01:01

Originally there were 2 water robots and the first save point came after the first 4 lasers. That was sadistic. I get through the point in question without incident usually, and none of my testers complained. But, you're completely right there are 7 obstacles between the save points and 6 of them are deadly. None of them are difficult individually, but once you add them all together it is a bit much.

I'm going to re-evaluate save point spreads throughout.

I want to warn cheaters to be sure they're not going somewhere they shouldn't be able to. The game is very complex logically. You could trap yourself, run into voids, or miss story elements by cheating.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: pumpkin on February 16, 2010, 06:34:07

Damminals dude this has to be the greatest level I have ever played!! Major props!

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: WatcherCCG on February 16, 2010, 07:01:38

Quote from: egomassive on February 16, 2010, 06:01:01

Originally there were 2 water robots and the first save point came after the first 4 lasers. That was sadistic. I get through the point in question without incident usually, and none of my testers complained. But, you're completely right there are 7 obstacles between the save points and 6 of them are deadly. None of them are difficult individually, but once you add them all together it is a bit much.

I'm going to re-evaluate save point spreads throughout.

I want to warn cheaters to be sure they're not going somewhere they shouldn't be able to. The game is very complex logically. You could trap yourself, run into voids, or miss story elements by cheating.

I tend to avoid using the cheat much on maps bigger than 1KB, since they tend to be that size due to shifts switching you between many maps. It's hard to follow Juni through the map editor, as well, meaning it's not a good idea to try and drop items into the map, since you're likely to drop them on the wrong section. Very not worth the trouble, if you ask me.

I use the teleport cheat exclusively to bypass jumps/hazards that become way too annoying for my patience. I don't use it to go wallswimming or anything like that. Porting out of the machine tubes in particular can get you launched into a void on this level if you're not careful.

Oh, um, where are Present-Anna and the 10 toasts? You never did answer that. I found... 3 of them, but the rest are impossible.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: lamarblake on February 16, 2010, 14:26:17

I've waited to post on this level as I've been very busy and not been able to play the level in a single sitting. I'm still not done with the level but thought it was time to have my say. Here it is.  Yay!  I concur with, I believe, Klamrisk when he said he missed levels like this coming out every week.

This is right up my alley as I love puzzly maze like levels. Getting lost in this level has been so easy as I play a little bit one day, come back the next only to have forgotten where I'd been, where I was going or what I'm supposed to do next!  That's ok, because with the recent dearth of really good new levels like this I can keep busy for some time to come trying to finish!

I bow to you and offer many thanks for your hard work!

BTW First level? That in itself is impressive.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Hmpf on February 16, 2010, 15:35:23

Quote from: egomassive on February 16, 2010, 06:01:01

Originally there were 2 water robots and the first save point came after the first 4 lasers. That was sadistic. I get through the point in question without incident usually, and none of my testers complained. But, you're completely right there are 7 obstacles between the save points and 6 of them are deadly. None of them are difficult individually, but once you add them all together it is a bit much.

To give you some more, potentially more useful feedback: I think in my case the annoyance is not so much due simply to the number of deadly obstacles in a row but to the fact that one of them - the flying robot in combination with the buttons - is a fairly annoying and time-consuming one. That robot in itself is basically two or three obstacles in itself, because (okay, maybe this is me being a crap player) I couldn't really switch on the buttons in one go. So it was basically, hide in the tunnel to the left while waiting for the robot to finish its low sweeps; dash over to run across the buttons a couple of times; dash back to the tunnel to wait for the robot to clear the area again; dash back to the buttons; dash back to the tunnel; dash back to the buttons... and that was the ideal version, where nothing went wrong. There was also the option: wait in the tunnel, dash over to the buttons, be a tiny bit too hasty in jumping back over to the tunnel again and fall into the shaft at the bottom, and whoops, the buttons are reset to zero, arrgh. (Not to mention the option: wait in the tunnel, dash over to the buttons, try to dash back to the tunnel and get killed.)

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: egomassive on February 18, 2010, 00:46:53

Quote from: WatcherCCG on February 16, 2010, 07:01:38

Oh, um, where are Present-Anna and the 10 toasts? You never did answer that. I found... 3 of them, but the rest are impossible.

I'd rather not have that info listed here, I'll PM you. If anyone else wants this info PM me with "A Knytt in Time" or"AKiT" in the subject.

edit: I've made a walkthrough (http://egomassive.com/2010/02/walkthrough-knytt-in-time.html). Please check it for answers before messaging me. Thanks.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: WatcherCCG on February 18, 2010, 01:54:46

Fair enough. Thank you.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Talps on February 19, 2010, 01:47:41

Hey, I absolutely loved this level. It felt so professionally put together. At the start it had the same feel as some 'real' games, like Legend of Zelda. The whole thing went together really well. I also liked that after a certain points I could start working things out for myself and didn't have to talk to my Grandma for the latter half of the game. The hints are good, but it's good to be able to do without them.

So yeah, very fun, very clever, very well put together. :D Probably the best level I've played since 'A Strange Dream'.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Pie_Sniper on February 19, 2010, 17:35:27

Wow! This is a really amazing level! I'm honored that you used my tiles in it. :) I got all 3 endings, starting with a C, then a B, and finally an A+. There were some frustrating parts, but they were few and far between, so overall great job! It's definitely "Nifflas quality".

Spoiler: Bugs (click to show/hide)

I did find a couple super minor wallswim issues and an elusive void screen. The first wallswim is, in the gem mine, if you go into the first glowing door that leads to the little box with mushrooms, you can jump back through the door and come through in the ground. The second is on the island with the fisherman. I came through when of the doors and ended up a little bit in the ground. Not really a problem, but if you release another version for another reason you might consider fixing them.

The void screen is a bigger issue. I believe it was in the future after giving the little boy the tree berries for the red key. At that point I jumped to the right, into void screens, and "fell into the past". ;)

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: egomassive on February 20, 2010, 17:18:46

@ Pie_Sniper: The wallswims on door entries happen when Juni is falling and enters a door. It might have something to do with the fact that I used the floor type on all door shifts. I believe it's a game engine issue.

The void is definitely a Knytt Stories engine issue. I double checked my level and everything is programmed right. I think what you did was exit through the corner. For some reason, if you exit exactly through the corner you bypass the warp controls. It has to be perfect, but in a level this complex it's bound to happen.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: theiza27 on February 22, 2010, 03:10:43

woohooo finally finished with the ultimate ending (i'm presuming?)

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

"WOOF" lolz

great level... i like the

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

idea that we have to deal with these pipes rather than the usual collect the keys type thing... and i love how it is in fact repetitive in that u are forced to traverse the same areas over and over... but its not the typical... go all the way left... then come back right... then go halfway left... then go right... i had absolutely no idea where i was on the map the majority of the time lolz and i really enjoyed that... and i like how well you hid the switch for the last pipe, well the last one i got anyway... which was the one with the

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

circular symbol and the two lines inside of it

... there were so many dead ends that existed in one time but don't in another and are actually the ones that lead to the secrets... i was pretty much forced to explore every crevice over and over and going back to flip the switch between now and then... and then going back to the same crevices lolz... it sounds tedious (for those of u reading this and haven't played it yet) but it is in fact really enjoyable especially for those of us who like intricate maps and a lot of areas to cover... great level... definitely a favorite now :) and because i had forgotten half the areas by the time i was only half way through the game... this has definite replay value lolz

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: egomassive on February 24, 2010, 11:21:30

I've updated the level to 1.3 and released a walkthrough (http://egomassive.com/2010/02/walkthrough-knytt-in-time.html).

This version fixes an SGE I found in the forest. And I've added more save points. Use the link in the top post.

I've decided to release a LoCP version. It'll be extra easy. Look for that in the coming weeks if you're having difficulty. I'm releasing it as a separate level because of the size of the map and the world.ini (these things do affect performance on slower computers.) Both are rather large. Also, I don't want to invest the time it would take to copy everything to new locations on the map, and to rewrite every single .ini address.

Note: Wherever I've said to message me about spoiler questions in previous posts I've edited to say, "see the walkthrough." If it does not help you then feel free the message me.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: WatcherCCG on February 24, 2010, 12:26:57

Great explanation of the game, man. Now then, if you'd make a .txt version of this walkthrough, we could all download it and use it freely. :)

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: the Jack on February 24, 2010, 13:57:59

Quote from: egomassive on February 24, 2010, 11:21:30

I've updated the level to 1.3 and released a walkthrough (http://egomassive.com/2010/02/walkthrough-knytt-in-time.html).

This version fixes an SGE I found in the forest. And I've added more save points. Use the link in the top post.

Ooh, more save points! And a walkthrough! And a narrative-style walkthrough, no less! I looked at the beginning part, for sections I've already worked out on my own (and stopped reading early enough to avoid spoiling myself) and it looks like it should be reasonably easy for players to find the clues they need without being in too much danger of ruining the challenge of figuring out the next bit themselves. I really really like the 'story' style of walkthrough you chose to do, as opposed to just a bare list of hints or explanations.

Quote from: egomassive on February 24, 2010, 11:21:30

I've decided to release a LoCP version. It'll be extra easy. Look for that in the coming weeks if you're having difficulty. I'm releasing it as a separate level because of the size of the map and the world.ini (these things do affect performance on slower computers.) Both are rather large. Also, I don't want to invest the time it would take to copy everything to new locations on the map, and to rewrite every single .ini address.

OMG ILU.
I'm still going to at least try to beat the new-and-improved-with-more-savepoints 'Normal' difficulty version, but the idea that you're doing an 'Easy' version... wow. Doing it as a whole separate level (in terms of .knytt.bin file, world.ini & subfolders) seems like the logical solution, yes, especially as huge as the level already is, and as many shifts as you've no doubt had to use what with the time-travelling plus the inside vs outside pipes screens. I'm sure doing this is going to take a massive amount of work, but let me be the first to say, on behalf of the League of Crap Players, thank you so much for doing it. Probably when I want to replay the level -- as I'm sure I will -- after beating the Normal-difficulty original version (assuming I can manage to, that is) I'll go with the Easy/LoCP version since it'll be the story I'm interested in playing through more than the challenges. I can tell already, despite not having gotten that far into the game at all, that the story you're telling really is a story, in the best tradition of the interactive fiction genre of games.

::downloads excitedly::

PS thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: yorch on February 24, 2010, 23:03:14

I have recently discovered Knytt Stories, thanks to the wonderful DS port and I have to say this level is AWESOME. It has the perfect difficulty and it's incredibly rewarding. I love videogames and have played a looooot since i was a child (i'm 31 now) and to be sincere I have to say that Knytt Stories and this level as a whole make one of my favourite games in years. So thanks Nifflas for making KS, thanks rrc2soft for your perfect work in your port and thank you egomassive for a level that just make me love videogames even more. You all have demonstrated to be reaaaallyyyy talented.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Hmpf on February 25, 2010, 00:53:21

Quote from: egomassive on February 24, 2010, 11:21:30

I've decided to release a LoCP version. It'll be extra easy.

If we ever decide to give out medals, you'll be the first recipient, I think. :-)

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: pumpkin on February 25, 2010, 00:56:51

Uh just finished the level, and it's a lot easier than everyone is making it out to be, but that's just me. AMAZING level, and i look forward to the LoCP version, I'll see how long it takes me to beat it compared to the "regular" version!

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: conquerer7 on February 25, 2010, 03:45:44

Just finished it.

I didn't find it hard, but a pretty reasonable challenge. I love the flags and stuff you used, which made the game feel much more responsive to Juni's actions, as well as how you used the eight symbols and added on a new thing to them (with the purple tiles).

There definitely were periods where I was lost, but I always managed to figure it out. I think the hints the game gives are really nice, not too strong or weak. The way the world was round and the pipes connected the whole place was quite cool too...

I'd say this is the best KS level I've ever played by a good margin, out of 200 or so I've played.

I don't really get, though

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

the three endings. Who does that orphan girl eventually become? Is it, she becomes Juni, and the other Juni goes to the past to raise her, and later becomes Juni's grandma? What time does the game itself begin in? Does it begin in what's later known as the present or the past?  :/

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: egomassive on February 25, 2010, 04:21:04

Quote from: WatcherCCG on February 24, 2010, 12:26:57

Great explanation of the game, man. Now then, if you'd make a .txt version of this walkthrough, we could all download it and use it freely. :)

Done, download the .txt file at the top of the walkthrough. But, why couldn't you just copy and past?

Quote from: conquerer7 on February 25, 2010, 03:45:44

Just finished it...
I don't really get, though...

Spoiler: Don't read before playing (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Seriously, don't look before playing (click to show/hide)

Whenever you see the Volcano it is the Present. Whenever you see the Mountain it is the Past, the Mountain hasn't erupted yet. In the Good Ending you see a Mountain in the Present because Juni prevented it from erupting somehow. In the Bad and Good Endings Juni finds herself stuck in the Past. She raises the orphan like her own daughter. The orphan, becomes Juni's biological mother. The time difference between Past and Present isn't exact. It's basically the time it took Juni to become Grandma's age, 35 to 55 years.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: the Jack on February 25, 2010, 05:01:17

Woooooooooooooooooooooo I finished it!

There were still a couple of places where the lack of a savepoint within what felt to me like a reasonable number of screens made me gnash my teeth at having to run thru those same screens (between savepoint and deathpoint) again and again, but for normal difficulty, I'm presuming -- especially taking into account others' comments -- that in general you've struck the right balance between 'savepoint here because otherwise it's sadistic' and 'savepoint here would make this area less challenging than it should be.'

Spoiler: An embarassing admission (click to show/hide)

Much of why I couldn't get past where I'd last saved before upgrading to v1.3, I discovered once I noticed the mention of it in the walkthrough, was that I had not recognised the door by the Machine Room portal as being a door. It looked on my screen almost exactly like the grates elsewhere in the area; it never occurred to me to try going thru it, so I was stuck in the past. On the one hand, I found some things rather out of order, like the pumping room & aquifer access, and one toast... but then on the other hand I didn't yet have the powerups to be able, with my lack of gameplay skills, to get anywhere in those areas.

I even managed to get all three endings, an eventual grade of A (not A+ yet but much better than my initial D grade with the first ending), 6/10 delicious Easter eggs, and 16 out of the 24 'secrets and missables' you listed on the walkthru. I may or may not try to find the rest of the toast before the Easy version comes out.

There are so many things I loved about this level. I honestly think it's good enough, in enough ways that are unique to it, that it's going to change KS and the way people design for and play it, from here on out. First and foremost -- even beyond the awesome things you did with the background graphics and the cutscenes including the ending-continue options -- is the way 'A Knytt in Time' really is a Knytt story.

Many levels have a storyline; and many levels suggest or evoke a story as one plays them; and some levels tell small, discrete stories within their overarching storyline (think of Gaia's Library). A few excellent levels have all those story-related features. But AKiT is the only level I've seen that is telling a story which the player-character is part of. (No, even Nifflas's levels don't quite manage this. Though 'A Strange Dream' comes close.) The storytelling aspect of the game is actually right in line with the best of Interactive Fiction -- the all-grown-up name for those olllld-school text-adventure games like 'Zork' and 'Adventure' -- and may, if we're lucky, draw some talent from the still-thriving I.F. community, which would be a win-win situation for everyone, really. I sincerely hope we're going to look back at the release of 'A Knytt in Time' as a watershed event in the development of KS levels.

Your beautiful (and amusing -- please don't take all my praise of other aspects of the level as giving the humour scattered so liberally thru the level short shrift) cutscenes contributed so much to the story aspect of this level. Someone said just recently, elsewhere in the forums, that cutscenes are overrated; I can't imagine that whoever said that has played 'A Knytt in Time' yet. In fact, I took a screenshot of one of the early cutscenes back when I first started trying to play the level, for the express purpose of pointing to its awesomeness here on the forums. (I then got so distracted by skill-fail-death frustration and being 'stuck' that I forgot about it entirely, but that's another Story.) It's attached at the end of this comment, as it really is Teh Best Screenshot EVAR.

I also threw in a screenshot that's one of many, many screens in the level, chosen at random from among my favourites, which I found strikingly beautiful, aesthetically speaking. I often paused when passing thru screens like that just to admire them. So often you could have just put in the necessary tiles and that would have been sufficient, but you optimised many, many screens for aesthetics. (N.B. I would love to see you do an environmental. The LoCP version of AKiT will nearly be one, but I mean as your second -- or third or fourth, I'm not greedy -- level.)


Just to be clear, I am still very very much looking forward to the LoCP version! Maybe we'll make you an honourary member...  ;)

edited because --hunh. The Save button doesn't even look anything like the Choose File button. Well, this is why posting when one is on the verge of falling asleep is a bad idea. Second screenshot attached now, and also I mentioned everything I meant to... for now.

edited again to hide the screenshot Egomassive felt was too spoilery for the first 10 minutes of the game -- oops! Now spoiler-tagged.

Spoiler: hilarious cartoon cutscene (click to show/hide)

(http://i49.tinypic.com/25ppv01.png)

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Hmpf on February 28, 2010, 02:19:46

Just started playing this again (I'd paused because of a strange mixture of ragequitting and overdosing on the epic AWESOME that is this level; plus, I got sidetracked by a rabid level idea of my own that wanted to be turned into an environmental *immediately*), and wow, it truly is so epic, and awesome, that I can only take it in small doses because otherwise my brain would just explode with *glee*!

Sadly, taking it in small doses means getting lost and confused when I start up again. But, on the other hand, getting lost means spending more time with this awesome level, so all is good. *g*

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: LB on February 28, 2010, 02:35:51

Wow, I really enjoyed this amazing level. I was incredibly well made and definitely a well planned level. I have to say, I'm not a very good player, and I certainly didn't understand the ending.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

I got rank D because I unlocked all but 2(?) pipes and only found two~three toasts, and I haven't any idea who Nanna is.

Overall I really enjoyed this level. It had amazing shift and flag usage and I think it deserves a Nifflas metal, if such a metal exists.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: egomassive on March 04, 2010, 01:39:43

Version 1.4 is out. I found several minor aesthetic errors, while making the LoCP edition.

LoCP edition is nearly done. I'm thinking it took far too little time to remake it into an easy title, so I'm going to sit on it for a while. I want to play it a few more times with space between plays. I pretend to be a crappy player. It's hard to do. If I get in a tight situation I start using my reflexes. I'm sure it's much tougher for the league to pretend to be good players though.

Also, the walkthrough has been updated. I've added more to the Secrets and Missables section. I'm up to 30. I've also added a section that explains the Machine's purpose and the Endings a little better. It shouldn't be read before playing.

I want to thank everyone for their feed back so far. It's nice to hear that my efforts have been worthwhile. In response to some posts:

@Jack: I appreciate your enthusiasm, but in the screen shots you posted you're revealing the big pay off for... (see spoiler.) You're stealing my punchlines. It's not too big of a deal, being on page 3 of the thread and all, but you could have put it in a spoiler.

Spoiler: the big pay off for (click to show/hide)

...being forced to walk around without the Run Power-Up for at least 6 minutes. Walking really aggravates people. I'm shocked no one has complained.

@LB: Don't worry about the rank system. If you completed it then you're a winner. :) The ranks are just there to encourage you to get the better endings, because I thought it was neat, and to give hints. As for as finding the 11 things mentioned during the ranking process, they only give you a better rank and the satisfaction of finding them. So, don't worry about that unless you're into searching every corner of a game for full completion.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Hmpf on March 13, 2010, 22:14:11

... WTF?

Okay, something completely bizarre just happened.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

In the past version of the forest, I decided to randomly press 'down' in front of one of the bushes with fruit in the top layer. Completely on a whim. And I almost fell off my chair when that turned out to trigger a shift!

Only I can't see what that shift has actually done. I don't seem to have any new powerups.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Artix on March 14, 2010, 02:44:43

Quote from: Hmpf on March 13, 2010, 22:14:11

... WTF?

Okay, something completely bizarre just happened.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

In the past version of the forest, I decided to randomly press 'down' in front of one of the bushes with fruit in the top layer. Completely on a whim. And I almost fell off my chair when that turned out to trigger a shift!

Only I can't see what that shift has actually done. I don't seem to have any new powerups.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

You're supposed to do that and go to the present version of the forest to

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

give the berries to the kid in the locked treehouse.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: the Jack on March 14, 2010, 07:37:14

Quote from: Hmpf on March 13, 2010, 22:14:11

Okay, something completely bizarre just happened.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

In the past version of the forest, I decided to randomly press 'down' in front of one of the bushes with fruit in the top layer. Completely on a whim. And I almost fell off my chair when that turned out to trigger a shift!

Or, to address your spoiler question with a hint instead of a walkthrough,

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

The bushes with fruit, you say? Hmm... maybe you should see if anyone nearby has anything to say about the fruit on those bushes.

Honestly, I'm surprised you didn't already make the connection, the way you like to explore -- oh, but you've been so busy with RL stuff, you're playing KS in short bursts instead of long sessions, right? Because that would explain it.

And that's all I'm saying.  ;)

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Salmoneous on March 14, 2010, 17:59:39

Finished it today! One of the best adventures in ks history and a great level.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Pick Yer Poison on March 17, 2010, 05:50:41

A first level with 700 screens? That beats my first level by a good 400 or so screens. XD

<space reserved for level commentation>

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Pumpkinbot on March 19, 2010, 06:18:04

How'd I miss this awesome jewel of a level?! This is the best level* I've played yet! Freakin' awesome! Some of the jumps are a little off, but that may be just because I'm playing on KSDS. :P

*Un-weird levels only. "Teenhmifnoeafgil" and "Don't Eat the Mushroom" do not apply.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: rrc2soft on March 19, 2010, 09:51:07

Quote from: Pumpkinbot on March 19, 2010, 06:18:04

How'd I miss this awesome jewel of a level?! This is the best level* I've played yet! Freakin' awesome! Some of the jumps are a little off, but that may be just because I'm playing on KSDS. :P

Yup, it is my fault (sorry about that...  working to improve it)

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: Pumpkinbot on March 19, 2010, 23:04:55

Quote from: rrc2soft on March 19, 2010, 09:51:07

Quote from: Pumpkinbot on March 19, 2010, 06:18:04

How'd I miss this awesome jewel of a level?! This is the best level* I've played yet! Freakin' awesome! Some of the jumps are a little off, but that may be just because I'm playing on KSDS. :P

Yup, it is my fault (sorry about that...  working to improve it)

Eh, it ain't too bad. I can get those jumps now. I say you should first fix the double-jump/corner glitch, where it takes away the second jump.

But that's neither here nor there. Point is, it's an awesome level regardless. :D

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: egomassive on March 20, 2010, 05:18:04

I have finished the League of Crap Players edition. It's easy rather than normal. I also believe it to be completable on the current build of KSDS. I recommend the original to anyone who is not a "crap player." Get it at the bottom of this page (http://egomassive.com/2009/12/knytt-in-time.html).

I also updated the original, there were a couple slight graphical errors, and a logic issue with the tackle box.

Thanks for all the compliments. I think I'm done tweaking this level. I'm hoping to come out with something new in October, and then another at the end of the year. I get busy during the summer.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: the Jack on March 20, 2010, 18:38:43

Well, I've been playing the LoCP version most of the morning...  :D

It's considerably easier (most of the time) than I was expecting, but there's still some challenge... pretty much just the right amount for Crap Players to get that little frisson of accomplishment without being so hard that it verges on not being fun.

I'll still probably try to find all the toasts & other easter-egg things in the original version eventually, and try for the A+ score, but for now, I'm really enjoying being able to focus on playing through the story, as opposed to spending so much effort trying to get past individual challenges that I lose track of where in the story I am. Not having to worry (so much) about dying is also leading to my appreciating the visuals a lot more -- always a good thing.

One issue I did notice was that

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

if Juni doesn't exit the pipe at the first opening after shutting down and entering the second pipe, she can exit it instead in the machine room, meaning that she misses the room with the bird and the note entirely. It's still possible to get into that room afterwards (even for me... though I've gotten much better at trick-jumping over the last couple of months, and many LoCP-level players might not be able to, assuming they even thought there was some reason to go that way) but you might want to do something to prevent players from missing that crucial bit of story -- either have the second hatch be "temporarily out of order," or change the structure of the pipe between the two hatches so that it's impassable without the double-jump powerup, maybe.

Thank you again for doing the LoCP version of this level. I fully expect to be able to draw a bunch of new players into KS with it...

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: grimwit on March 21, 2010, 18:39:31

Great SCOTT, that's an epic level.

Just chiming in on how awesome this one is.  Knytt in time had me writing things down and making maps to keep straight where I needed to go next and how to get there as well as keep the story straight.  Finally got an A rating.

Still scratching my head on how the level was even made.  It must've been a nightmare to organize with all those flags to trip.

Bravo.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: egomassive on March 22, 2010, 08:24:04

@Jack: Opps, you die if you touch where the pipes meet the machine in the original. I was trying to save crappy players the agony of dying there. I guess I'll take that second hatch out in the LoCP edition.

@grimwit: Oh yes! I had storyboards, outlines, flowcharts, and lots of head scratching. Part of what I enjoy about Knytt Stories level editing is getting as much as I can out of the limited logic.

Title: Re: [challenge/normal/long] A Knytt in Time
Post by: GrayFace on March 22, 2010, 08:39:24

Great level!

Quote from: egomassive on March 22, 2010, 08:24:04

@Jack: Opps, you die if you touch where the pipes meet the machine in the original. I was trying to save crappy players the agony of dying there. I guess I'll take that second hatch out in the LoCP edition.

Or move the opening one square left.