Nifflas' Support Forum

General => About Nifflas' Website and Forum => Topic started by: LPChip on March 04, 2010, 12:49:34

Title: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: LPChip on March 04, 2010, 12:49:34
It has been a while since I last spoke about this project.

I haven't sit still since then though.

The last action I put out was a request for help. RunMan was kind enough to offer his help, but sadly I never was able to get in contact with him to discuss the matter.

Looki also PM'ed me telling me that he was interested in helping me out, with the sidenote that he didn't had much time himself either so things could get slow.

As I'm very happy with all the help I can get, and he is experienced, I invited him to the project (and I was still hoping for RunMan to also join in)

Due to Looki being part of the project, a few problems have been tackled in a way that makes things even better AND easier too. Looki has made a php script to get data from a .knytt.bin file, which removes the requirements to actually have to enter data on submission. (I wanted to make this part as easy as possible to encourage users to enter it carefully. I started to use the youtube way of uploading: you upload and while you have to wait, you fill in the form) This seemed to be very hard, and looki's way of just extracting that from the file itself is a real addition and even better solution too!

In addition, when you upload a level, the script will composite what the first screen looks like. Often the first screen of a level is what people will remember most, making it ideal to both see if this was the level you were seeking, but also to see what kind of experience you can get before actually playing the level. This'll promote levels with custom content!

Furthermore, I have included 2 screens of the alpha stage we're in now. The layout etc has not been set as final yet, but with a layout it works much better to add to the system.

Currently we can:
* log in using the forum account
* upload a level
* browse levels
* filter/search the browse section to quickly find one or more levels.


Also, the levels currently uploaded are for testing purposes only. You will have to upload your levels to the new system once its ready of course.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Dataflashsabot on March 04, 2010, 14:14:09
Woot, looks awesome! Good job LPChip and Looki! :)
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Comhon on March 04, 2010, 14:18:39
Yay! It's comming!
Good job. Keep working!
Looking foward it! :D

My oldest level as the prewiew? I can't belive it... :O
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Pumpkinbot on March 04, 2010, 15:52:12
Woot, progress!
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: PONTO on March 04, 2010, 17:38:42
Yeah, this is great news. Thank you, LPChip. :)
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Razzorman on March 04, 2010, 19:05:22
In addition, when you upload a level, the script will composite what the first screen looks like. Often the first screen of a level is what people will remember most, making it ideal to both see if this was the level you were seeking, but also to see what kind of experience you can get before actually playing the level. This'll promote levels with custom content!
I assume there is a way to turn that off, right? Otherwise, that would be a good way to promote spoilers.
Nah, of course you can turn it off. Everything else is awesome, so there's no reason this wouldn't be.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: LPChip on March 04, 2010, 19:23:33
I am not intended to turn the 1st screen preview off. I don't see this as a spoiler either. The first screen says nothing about the surprises in a level except for good graphics.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Razzorman on March 04, 2010, 20:25:48
Unless it is a one screen level. Or if it has something important in the first screen. Or if it isn't a standard un-innovative level.
The first screen could potentially spoil a level, depending on the type. At least make the first screen preview an option, instead of mandatory for everyone who uploads a level.

Edit
This must be why you never released any info before. Now you have to waste time arguing over site design with people like me. X)
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: LPChip on March 04, 2010, 21:27:50
No, I don't have to argue about it. I'm not going to remove it. Period.

If its troubling for you, either not use the upload capability, or change your level to support it properly. (a shift on the first screen to move you to the next screen)
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: kaizoman666 on March 04, 2010, 21:55:53
I'm wondering: Would it cause problems if we use "custom" categories?

If you're wondering what I mean, I mean changing the category in the .ini to something not normally there.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Razzorman on March 04, 2010, 22:01:58
No, I don't have to argue about it. I'm not going to remove it. Period.
I never said that you should remove it, just that you should make it an option.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: LPChip on March 04, 2010, 22:20:08
I'm wondering: Would it cause problems if we use "custom" categories?

If you're wondering what I mean, I mean changing the category in the .ini to something not normally there.

Yeah, because then your level won't be findable using the filters.

No, I don't have to argue about it. I'm not going to remove it. Period.
I never said that you should remove it, just that you should make it an option.

I heard you the first time, but I'm going to make it optional either. It takes way too much trouble adding stuff like that besides, it really breaks with the idea behind this page.

So once more, and I'm not going to say more about it, I won't change it. The preview will be there, and if it bothers you, either ensure that your level doesn't have a first screen that spoils, or just don't upload your level at all.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: LimeLemon on March 04, 2010, 23:18:16
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Purple Pineapple on March 05, 2010, 01:11:34
YEAH! YEAH! YEAH! YE- eh.. *cough cough* *has gone hoarse :P

You see, LPChip? Post about it, and people compliment you. :)
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: The stickman on March 05, 2010, 02:02:53
Yay! Now I can get some of those old levels that were lost during the old forum holocaust!
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Pumpkinbot on March 05, 2010, 02:06:03
No, I don't have to argue about it. I'm not going to remove it. Period.
I know I'm just beating a dead horse that could potentially blow up in my face (horsedynomite ftw), but why? I know little code, but I could still see how easy this could be:
if: nopreview==true
 (do not display img(insertimageurlhere))
 (else: do nothing)

Something like that. :P

EDIT: Ninja'd by The Stickman.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: minmay on March 05, 2010, 03:01:58
I believe a much bigger issue would be the many levels that would actually be harmed by this "feature" because their first screens are extremely nonindicative of the level itself.  And an even bigger one would be the people that would deliberately abuse it by making first screens with no relation to the rest of the level.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: LimeLemon on March 05, 2010, 08:03:16
Not that this is a status update. He never asked for anyone's opinion. And he have already said two times that he is not going to change it.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: smeagle on March 06, 2010, 03:44:02
Awesome.  :O

Then we can get someone to make knytt stories on flash and you browse on the level archive, then press "play" and it opens a window of knytt stories!
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Pumpkinbot on March 06, 2010, 03:56:12
I believe a much bigger issue would be the many levels that would actually be harmed by this "feature" because their first screens are extremely nonindicative of the level itself.  And an even bigger one would be the people that would deliberately abuse it by making first screens with no relation to the rest of the level.
As LPChip pointed out, you can make a level where you spawn on a shift to the REAL first screen of the level, but that would first ruin the older games, or old gems that don't have a particularly exciting first screen (DEtM, anyone?) Besides the fact that it could potentially ruin a level, as stated multiple times before (which should put up a red flag that it's a problem!), it's kinda a pain to do.

However, I'm kinda on the fence on this matter. True, it could ruin a lot of levels, but, then again, we may be exaggerating it a bit. But, LPChip, can it, instead, show the preview screen? That'd be better. It wouldn't ruin some levels and how much harder would it be?

Yeah, that's another thing. Whenever something's done that you're in charge of, you never take any suggestions, and, if it's nearly unanimous that something should be changed, you still stick to it and say it'll be as is. Why are you so adamant about these things?
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: minmay on March 06, 2010, 04:06:02
Yeah, that's another thing. Whenever something's done that you're in charge of, you never take any suggestions, and, if it's nearly unanimous that something should be changed, you still stick to it and say it'll be as is. Why are you so adamant about these things?

One of the advantages of doing something unsolicited is that you have the ability to completely ignore other people.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Dataflashsabot on March 06, 2010, 09:13:46
Yeah, but if you're making something for the community and the community loves it but speaks loudly about a specific feature which they consider a problem, I don't see why you wouldn't consider changing it. I have limited PHP knowledge, but since the info screen is a ready png in the .knytt.bin, it seems to me that it'd be significantly easier to code that reconstructing the first screen would be. And again,
Code: [Select]
if (show_first_screen == true)
{
// show first screen
}
else
{
// show info screen
}
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: kaizoman666 on March 06, 2010, 16:10:19
I wonder, is there a way to make it so we can choose which screen to show?
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: LPChip on March 06, 2010, 16:31:25
I knew making this topic was a big mistake.

Remember what I kept saying? I do not want suggestions unless I have something you can use. I'm not finished by a long shot, and I will not change anything to what we currently have unless I have to.

This topic was only ment to show you that we're still working on it, not for feedback of any kind, although a compliment is always nice to get.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Purple Pineapple on March 06, 2010, 18:20:52
You could always make it and lock it. Or link to an update page elsewhere on lpchip.nl via the news bar on the homepage.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: LimeLemon on March 07, 2010, 02:22:37
No LP, we are very grateful for this! It's just that... no, I have no idea what's wrong with those people.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: the Jack on March 07, 2010, 10:11:38
or change your level to support it properly. (a shift on the first screen to move you to the next screen)

...Glad I read through to the end of the thread before replying, because it occurred to me to suggest exactly this solution for people who didn't want the start screen to be the level archive preview screen for whatever reason.

It bears repeating, though: Simple solution exists. (And as LPChip points out, anyone is welcome to put their levels elsewhere... though I for one would rather get most -- or all -- of mine from one central location.) I actually expect this new feature to lead to more-interesting first screens in levels being developed, which can only be a good thing.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: LPChip on March 07, 2010, 10:36:08
or change your level to support it properly. (a shift on the first screen to move you to the next screen)

...Glad I read through to the end of the thread before replying, because it occurred to me to suggest exactly this solution for people who didn't want the start screen to be the level archive preview screen for whatever reason.

It bears repeating, though: Simple solution exists. (And as LPChip points out, anyone is welcome to put their levels elsewhere... though I for one would rather get most -- or all -- of mine from one central location.) I actually expect this new feature to lead to more-interesting first screens in levels being developed, which can only be a good thing.

No LP, we are very grateful for this! It's just that... no, I have no idea what's wrong with those people.

Finally some people who understands :)

One other preview thingy I want to share with you (and don't want feedback or questions about it, because I won't answer them anyway) is: There will be a unique way of rating a level, ensuring that the ratings are well thought, not just friend voting. It is also this voting that can get levels removed from the archive if it seems that its a crappy level though I'm still playing with the idea: should it be a mod action or automatic action. It will probably be a mod action first, but I'll look into how much it happens and if it hurts when its being automated.

I have already in my head how to accomplish this, but I want to keep it for myself for now. Maybe in a next update ;)
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: the Jack on March 07, 2010, 10:44:42
One other preview thingy I want to share with you (and don't want feedback or questions about it, because I won't answer them anyway) is: There will be a unique way of rating a level, ensuring that the ratings are well thought, not just friend voting. It is also this voting that can get levels removed from the archive if it seems that its a crappy level though I'm still playing with the idea: should it be a mod action or automatic action.

No questions. If "YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!" counts as feedback, please accept my sincere apologies.  ;)
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: oebchen on March 07, 2010, 11:35:08
I just wanted to jump in to say how excited I am about this - now I can really see that it was/is worth the wait! :) (Not that I didn't already think so before.) Please don't let anyone make you lose your faith in this project - we believe in you, LPChip! *cheering you on* :D
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Salmoneous on March 07, 2010, 11:55:09
Nice site header.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: LPChip on March 07, 2010, 12:26:43
Thanks. :)

Also note: Looki is part responsible for this site. He designed the site header too :)
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Evil on March 07, 2010, 13:54:08
Good job Mr LPChip and Mr Looki. :)
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Pumpkinbot on March 08, 2010, 15:45:49
...LPChip, I don't get you. You post about something we're all looking forward to, yet you don't want our opinions or criticism. All you expect is our praise. Why can't we suggest anything?
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: LPChip on March 08, 2010, 16:54:55
I didn't say you can't post comments and suggestions at all, just not now.

I'm not asking for praise either, its just a notice from my end that I'm still working on it, and since progress is being made with many thanks to Looki, I found it necessary to tell everyone so. I remember seeing comments in the past that people would like to get an update every now and then.

Like I've explained before: I have a very good idea with what I want with the system, and I want to incorporate my ideas into it before I release a beta to the public. Once I release a beta to the public (a place where you can submit your level to) I will be ready for feedback and suggestions. Do note, that suggesting something doesn't necessarily means that I will change it, but I will give the suggestion thought. Until then, I will turn down every suggestion regardless of its content even if it actually matches what I have in mind, to ensure that I'm not straying away from my initial plan.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Exp HP on March 08, 2010, 18:56:04
Sounds like a plan, then.  After all, the first public beta would never reach "completion" if the goals for it weren't set in stone.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Pumpkinbot on March 09, 2010, 00:57:42
I didn't say you can't post comments and suggestions at all, just not now.

I'm not asking for praise either, its just a notice from my end that I'm still working on it, and since progress is being made with many thanks to Looki, I found it necessary to tell everyone so. I remember seeing comments in the past that people would like to get an update every now and then.

Like I've explained before: I have a very good idea with what I want with the system, and I want to incorporate my ideas into it before I release a beta to the public. Once I release a beta to the public (a place where you can submit your level to) I will be ready for feedback and suggestions. Do note, that suggesting something doesn't necessarily means that I will change it, but I will give the suggestion thought. Until then, I will turn down every suggestion regardless of its content even if it actually matches what I have in mind, to ensure that I'm not straying away from my initial plan.
Okay, great. :) Glad to see this. ;)
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: PeppyHare4000 on April 03, 2010, 19:09:16
This is going to be a real great feature. LPChip, You have done well.  :D

Will there be an info box that says the info of the level... (I know its a lame question)
Good luck for the rest.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Purple Pineapple on April 29, 2010, 05:55:51
A thought just struck me regarding the first screen possible spoilerage. From what I see in the previews it is possibly to upload a level not made by yourself. If someone has one of those first screen spoiler levels, and someone else uploads it, they may be unaware of the spoiler until it is too late.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: LPChip on April 29, 2010, 11:43:20
The screen you see in the preview is the same as when you start the game. How can this possibly be a spoiler? If you play it, you see it anyway.

Joke levels are never appreciated anyway, so it would only spoil how awesome the graphics are, which I think is a good thing!
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: WatcherCCG on April 30, 2010, 04:30:40
You know, I'd joined the goobers who were ragging on you not posting any updates because you were hiding something. I knew deep down you were working on it, though. And I was right. I like what I see so far and have no comments or suggestions to be saved for future offering at this time. Keep it up, Chip.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: Salmoneous on April 30, 2010, 07:13:32
I think that first screen showcase should be taken away. I think it's up to the level auther what screens he want to share.
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: AClockworkLemon on April 30, 2010, 08:41:01
Ooh, for god's sake, we've already been through all this crap, and LP want's to keep it. PLEASE stop going on about it, seriously.

EDIT: Perhaps it would be an idea just to lock this topic, seeing as all that is being posted in it now is arguments against certain aspects of the design of KnyttLevels
Title: Re: Status update new knyttlevels.com website
Post by: LPChip on April 30, 2010, 10:03:29
Yeah. I'll lock the topic.

When I have a new update, I'll make a new topic. :)