Nifflas' Support Forum
Released Games => Saira => Topic started by: Beomene on December 17, 2009, 02:56:25
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I will try
not to step out of line.
Short verison: GAARGARAARGH!
Long version:
...I'm PISSED and conFUSED...
I have been bracing myself for all the bad comments and condescending opinions I thought I would have to meet when Saira was released. Not due to the game, but in response to my drawings.
I was certain there would be people letting me know I'm worth nothing and really ought to go hide somewhere. They would be wrong, but I was still scared of hearing things like that. I have met none of that though, even though I've been quite the uncareful one, as anyone who has seen me on youTube would know (never quite sure what to say next and displaying my lack of acting skills generously).
So WHY is Nifflas feeling flamed?
He who has not been uncareful? He who has delivered plenty, whilst I feel I should have delivered more?
I don't really know the extent of "spiteful" critique on Saira,
though I've tried to gather it.
I just see people mixing the good with what they consider less good.
If they don't like the graphics -AS MUCH- as they liked the pixelated Knytt,
then they really like the gameplay in general.
Well, when they don't like the feel of the movements and the controls (not good enough computers? People are mentioning melasses) then they do find the enviroments very beautiful.
Some are not embarassed at all to say they simply can't handle the games puzzles...!
It's too difficult for them, and I'm not saying they should be embarrased,
but I think it is plain -daft- to complain about a game being to much of a challenge.
I do wish I hade a "for Dummies" guide to Myst, becuase there I just don't get anywhere.
But I don't complain about Myst being hard or different.
It's MYST... It should be! As is Saira! Want easy?
Well go dust off your old nintendo and play an italian plumber jumping on a retarded ducks!
This is not cut out to be mainstream, or anything you beat in a flash.
Why should it be?
It's a challenge!
GAH!
I feel like screaming (but two people are sleeping next to me)
cuase I can't take all the unintelligent and uneccessary negativity,
or perhaps I just can't take the fact,
that I'm afraid Nifflas is losing his will to make games!
It's depressing!
I might really be wrong,
so let's not freak out,
I absolutely might be totally wrong about this,
but I am really scared he is finding it more hurtful than joyous to offer his soul out like this!
The connection between artist and art will always remain,
it's a... yuk, it's an umbilical cord you cannot cut.
Worse! It's like an emerging siamese twin,
every picture I draw, and every game Nifflas creates.
I have gathered the first things I found when I googled Nifflas,
and will post them here after this monster-large-post.
Some have links to them.
These are the things I wish Nifflas would read and take to his heart,
NOT the truly sad and saddening things that just makes me wanna ask nerd-raging blogger
"would you like some cheese with that whine?"
I also realize how often people care about the in no way constructive nagging of nicknamed strangers,
rather than true appreciation of people who actually sign their posts with names and mails for contact. I do get hurt myself, the occasions I get slandered or laughed at, but I realize I shouldn't more and more.
There is no time to waste on that, no gain in allowing the (eh) venom (eh) access into your mind!
Gosh, I'm getting poetic. I would sound less so if I just wrote this in my own language...
It's like... argh... letting the sith win or something, (?)
letting others taunt and evoke feelings that only plunges us into the dark side!
(no better analogy at mind)
Please Nifflas, do you realize you are EXCELLENT?
You are Yoda! Like a young, tall not at all geen or wrinkled Yoda!
...
Don't mind the hateful people who have NEVER neither dared to create or know the pressure of publicity!
Many people lack your disciplin, you are gifted, please don't feel bad even another second!
It's killing me!
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:shocked: WHO HURT NIFFLAS' FEELINGS?! >( I'M-A GONNA KILL HIM!!!
[/kidding]
So, um.........I'm confused. Most of what I've heard about the game has been good, and I myself have yet to see anything - here or on any other site - that was actually flaming Nifflas or attacking the game. Reviews of the game have their criticisms, but that's part of the review process. Criticism lets the designer know how his next game can be better!
There's nothing wrong with "mixing good and bad". It's not like the person is trying to hide an insult behind a compliment. People are just giving the pros and cons.
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I haven't seen any "flaming." There have been critiques, but that is to be expected. Reviews aren't intended to worship the ground a game designer walks on; they're meant to point out the good parts and the bad parts. Both.
Saira is a great game, yes, but it's not perfect. No game is perfect.
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I agree with what you have replied.
No, I have not found any outright flaming, but I got the feeling that Nifflas had found such things.
I also believe he might have gotten some mails or the like,
things we don't find when googling around. Not sure, just speculation, perhaps he is simply exhausted from all his hard work the recent time.
But yes,
I do think Nifflas might be feeling really bad atm.
Flaming is a rather,
hm,
extreme word...
But I feel afraid Nifflas is paying way too much attention to what people complain about
rather than the cheers he is getting.
It makes me totally infuriated, perhaps becuase...
Perhaps becuase I wish projects like this would only be fun and hard work rewarded,
not emotionally draining and demanding to the extent it has proved to be.
Perhaps this is more about my own feelings than his,
I will try to solve this asap, I hope it's only something I'm imagining...!
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Sorry to hear that Nifflas is not happy about how the game was received. From the little I've seen, it looked like the feedback was mostly positive.
The sad thing is, once one makes something outstanding, people are often resistant to the slightest change to it afterwards. Take movement for example. One thing I've seen mentioned is how Saira's controls feel a bit stiff compared to Juni's. In other words, people were so impressed about the level of movement control in Knytt Stories, that the change for more realistic controls is seen as something negative.
Most other complaints I've seen can similarly be traced back to other unfavorable comparisons to his earlier games. Unfair, but hardly surprising.
Btw. Charlotte, it's nice of you to try to cheer Nifflas up. :) I hope it'll work.
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calm down beomene
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take a chill pill beomene
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beomene don't worry it's going to be alright
just chillax or something
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People not liking something isn't really a problem calm down.
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4 posts of the same thing??
CCCOMBO BREAKER!! XD
Id like to let nifflas know that saira is the BEST game ive ever played!! (even better than cod6 :shifty:)
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4 posts of the same thing??
CCCOMBO BREAKER!! XD
Id like to let nifflas know that saira is the BEST game ive ever played!! (even better than cod6 :shifty:)
i think you mean fishbreaker
also this is the most livejournal-y thing i've read outside of livejournal
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I'll have to agree with most people that Saira is awesome! It's not perfect, but it so close ( this of course not in a sense that makes it impossible to do better, which would be illogical ). And really, would you expect people to research level editing in a game which they don't like?
I wouldn't use my time on reading through all of those files if I didn't want to see this lovely and beautiful game grow. It deserves to grow!
I've even prioritized time to playing this game, over time for my important 3rd year school project (which was supposed to be turned in today, but apocalypse in the shape of snow has set in, sooo ... :shifty: ). Of course this could just be me being lazy, but, really, this game takes my breath away with it's impressive and beautiful areas, which I'd say is equivalent to art of a high level.
Really, stick to it Nifflas! We love what you're creating! ;)
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Cheer him up? Well, I hope so too.
Calm down?
Yes, I will take any pill,
red or blue or purple.
Wait a minute, that might hurt my only weeks old child,
so I'll just go ahead lumbering around with this excess of emotion instead.
I can only come to the conclusion that
1. you are right in saying that people not liking something isn't a big problem (shouldn't be)
2. that I wish that was as obvious to Nifflas as it is to you guys
It's crap to only know someone well enough to care about their wellbeing,
but not well enough to go knock on his door and in a suprise attack shove chocolate down his throat...
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really, this game takes my breath away with it's impressive and beautiful areas, which I'd say is equivalent to art of a high level
Really, stick to it Nifflas! We love what you're creating! ;)
I agree entirely. Nifflas has consistantly blown my mind with the simplicity and grace of the games he releases, easily one of my favourite authors of 2D games. As for his detractors, I agree that for the most part critics will do their job and nit-pick the game as much as they can; but I think Nifflas should turn that around into something positive and keep going forward. Also no offense to you personally Beomene, but I think you may have jumped the gun a bit. Keep promoting Saira and give it some more time to gain popularity, and with a larger pool of people playing the game, the feedback will even out a bit more, and allow you to better gague the overall reaction. Just my two cents anyhow.
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Don't forget, you can never please everyone. Nifflas is a perfectionist who wants to please everyone. Any critic he receives will feel like he let someone down. The best thing we all can do is ensure him that the game is great. It'll ease his pain, and its not even lying. :)
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I'm sure everyone likes the game. Even if they didn't, everyone should still be free to say whatever they want about it.
I haven't seen any flaming at all, nor any negative comments. I have seen some people say that the controls feel a little floaty compared to knytt stories, but I haven't seen anyone call them outright bad.
Criticism is to be expected when you release a game, so getting upset when you see the slightest bit of negativity in a post isn't going to do any good.
Relax.
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Whoop! I was planning to keep my reaction secret. Anyway, it probably have to do with that I worked approx. 11 hours per day for a while before the release and that I was exhausted and should have relaxed for a few days instead of reading blog comments.
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Oh yeah... like everything you read on the internet is the truth! You know better Nifflas. C)
You should take all the positive comments as truth, see if all the negative one has valid points. If they have, learn from it and then ignore them.
Only if there were no positive comments, you should be worried. As I said earlier, you cannot please everyone. You never will. There always will be people who will frown upon you. Let that emotion be at their side, not on yours.
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Whoop! I was planning to keep my reaction secret. Anyway, it probably have to do with that I worked approx. 11 hours per day for a while before the release and that I was exhausted and should have relaxed for a few days instead of reading blog comments.
Sorry, perhaps I should've guessed you wanted me to keep quiet.
But damn, that phonecall the other day worried me to no end.
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I registered just to say that the game is awesome!
I've played through the demo twice, and I've just bought the game!
I'm going to finish it today if I can.
Anyways don't worry about what the losers who couldn't make a game if their life depended on it say.
It's a great game, and I think you should be proud. :)
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I don't get where the negative comments are.
However really in the end it is about sales, and if they're bad then Nifflas has a problem.
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However really in the end it is about sales, and if they're bad then Nifflas has a problem.
Not necessarily. Everybody isn't in it for the money. Judging from how generous Nifflas was with the length of the demo, I'd say that an important objective of his with Saira was to gain recognition. But neither of us can speak for Nifflas.
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Did this really fill the first page in under 12 hours?
Also, I want to join the others and say that Saira is indeed awesome! There will always be complaints, but you shouldn't be worried since I know all the forumers love you, and I have yet to see one that dislikes the game.
Don't listen to the whiners, listen to your heart! You know you are awesome.
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Wow.
I am so grateful that you people take the time to convey this.
I mean, it's all true and it -should- be said,
but still it's not something I see very often,
you really are the best.
*read LimeLemonUrbanMonk
LPChipRazzormaninpheaux
LightningEaglesmeagle again*
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Well, I have to say I've indeed read some negative comments, but it'd be a grave mistake to think they represent the world's opinion of the game. Some people have a rather amazing ability to notice the small flaws of a product, no matter how good it is overall; and that is greatly accentuated in the Internet, because many people only post when they have a problem. If a guy buys this game and is very much enjoying it, chances are he won't write about it in this forum. But, if that same guy has a small problem with, say, the game's key config, 99% of the time he'll come here and rant about it.
If you want an example, just check out WaDF's page on jayisgames: the game has a rating of 4.96 out of 5, but those who voted 5 (the vast majority) tend not to post... most of the comments come from people flaming small details of the game they didn't like, and morons that decide to bash the game 'cause they're bored.
I love Saira (the music, the scenery, the story and the puzzles fit perfecly to create something unique), but I realise now I've never mentioned it. So, let me say it clearly: Nifflas, YOU ARE A GENIUS. Knytt and KS were very good, WaDF was perfect, and so is this game.
(EDIT: It's somewhat incredible, but someone (see below) managed to interpret that last paragraph of mine as a disrespect for Nifflas. Jus' in case it needs clarifying, he got it all wrong...)
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I find it really touching how hard Nifflas tries to please his fans. For a person to have such a distinctive creative style that is all his own and somehow at the same time always think about what his fans would like most is an extremely rare combination.
As soon at I started this game, and there was Saira standing on Lomond, with the sound of the breeze blowing through those trees waving in the background, I thought, "Ahhhh... Nifflas has not let us down! Another masterpiece!" Seriously, I thought that as soon as I saw the first screen, before I even touched a key. But the game only got better from there. None of the aspects that make Nifflas's style so amazing are missing from this game.
I should even mention, at the risk of sounding like TOO big a fan, that in the couple of years I've been playing Nifflas's games I've actually looked at scenery and ambience in real life differently. I'm not a visual artist, but just like a painter might see something and think, "How can I paint that?" I see beautiful scenes and think "How could I capture that in pixel art and put it in a Knytt Stories (or nor Saira) level?" Is that crazy or what?
Nifflas, there are people who love your games! Don't listen to random bloggers. (There are too many people these days who are cynical about anything and everything and have nothing but petty, hateful things to say. We must always do our best to ignore them.)
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However really in the end it is about sales, and if they're bad then Nifflas has a problem.
Not necessarily. Everybody isn't in it for the money. Judging from how generous Nifflas was with the length of the demo, I'd say that an important objective of his with Saira was to gain recognition. But neither of us can speak for Nifflas.
This is true, and what many artists in multiple media formats seek. However it sounds like Nifflas has given even more of his time to Saira than his previous (and mostly free) games. There comes a point where you deserve/need money for your time whether or not that's your outright desire.
I don't really know that much about Nifflas so I'm just making assumptions.
Actually in response to the puzzles I had difficulty with, I didn't have much trouble after I found the Device Solver, I don't know if other people forget about it. Maybe it was just a me being forgetful.
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Cheer him up? Well, I hope so too.
Calm down?
Yes, I will take any pill,
red or blue or purple.
Wait a minute, that might hurt my only weeks old child,
so I'll just go ahead lumbering around with this excess of emotion instead.
fine than take a chill mint. :P
anyways I agree and think that it is a great game! Even if you do have criticism (this game has button mapping problems, ect) take it in as constructive criticism and just fix it in the next version! If the comments are (this game sucks, I hate it, its the worst in the world!!!, ect) just ignore it! they do not have anything to back that up and they are just saying it just to be saying something. And remember nifflas, every game has things it can work on!!!! Yes, even the epic ones like cave story, ninja gaiden and Even TETRIS!!!! :) ;)
EDIT:
Whoop! I was planning to keep my reaction secret. Anyway, it probably have to do with that I worked approx. 11 hours per day for a while before the release and that I was exhausted and should have relaxed for a few days instead of reading blog comments.
People, please understand that this is nifflas's first game that was sold, and we do not blame you at all. If I made the game, I would have done the same exact thing! (reading blog stuf and whatnot)
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I won't say that Saira's perfect and I definitely will not ever say any of Nifflas' games are flawless, because, honestly, I respect him a great deal more than that. It takes very little inspiration to make something that will collect an adamant (ie. stubborn) fan base, but for that fan base to see the flaws of a game and then express the same, if not more, devotion to what the person has made, then the creation is worth quite a bit more than the other. It's very difficult to have people recognize even small problems and have them not be deterred, and its very simple for people to block out the flaws of things they like to protect their opinions. This may not have been made very clear, but the point is that Nifflas has managed to do something that is nearly impossible, he has created something that makes it's fans say "yeah, that may be a problem, but in the grand scheme of things is that even a very important complaint?" Nifflas' games have created a fine and loyal fan base that not only will stick by him, but will also actually be able to defend him from flamers with more than a weak unsupported opinion. ;)
And really? The main complaints I've seen were about the control set up, and haven't they already lost that ammo? (and I realize that most people had a legitimate complaint and weren't attacking Nifflas, but I like strong imagery) As for the sliding, there have been many a good game with the same problem but worse, and the problem wasn't mentioned that often for those games, so I guess it just shows that they have very little to complain about. And- don't complain that a game is challenging unless its on purpose, like "I Want to be the Guy" :moody:
Oh! And more personally, I love Nifflas' games, he spends so much time and energy on them and honestly, it shows. His games are bug free when he releases them, I realize they don't begin that way X) but that he takes so much time to six them is even more impressive. Most complaints are minor, or come from a persons lack of interest in the genera, almost never from Nifflas' negligence. And, I actually really look up to Nifflas :oops: he's creative, but not in a destructive or loud kinda way (graffiti, which is sometimes quite pretty...) And, he shows a lot of integrity while on the INTERNET! That... that's just impressive
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To sum up: We love you, Nifflas! Your games are great, and we can't wait to see what you'll come up with next. <3
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Ahahaha... I suppose that was all I was trying to say... I'm the least concise person ever :crazy:
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As soon at I started this game, and there was Saira standing on Lomond, with the sound of the breeze blowing through those trees waving in the background, I thought, "Ahhhh... Nifflas has not let us down! Another masterpiece!" Seriously, I thought that as soon as I saw the first screen, before I even touched a key. But the game only got better from there. None of the aspects that make Nifflas's style so amazing are missing from this game.
i had a similar reaction, but it was more a feeling of being back home, like "ahh, it's good to be back in a nifflas-created world". i don't want to gush too much, though, because there's already enough of that in this thread and it's becoming a bit redundant. nifflas shouldn't need reassuring that his game is great, it should be obvious. we're all here because of it. i understand it can be upsetting because negative voices are much louder in our minds than positive ones, and when you create something you think is beautiful and other people just dismiss, it can be heartbreaking. but if those people can't appreciate the beauty in saira, that's their loss.
(There are too many people these days who are cynical about anything and everything and have nothing but petty, hateful things to say. We must always do our best to ignore them.)
i agree. it seems to me that it's hate, not love, that makes the world go around. some kind of human negativity instinct. i hate cynicism. i hate negativity. i'm human and i'm a walking paradox.
well, more of a sitting paradox. :crazy:
Calm down?
Yes, I will take any pill,
red or blue or purple.
Wait a minute, that might hurt my only weeks old child
congratulations. :)
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You know what...this game absolutely rocks! I'm not kidding. The visuals are stunning and beautiful (not to mention a fresh take on the classic Nifflas style). The controls are slick and the character moves with an awesome sense of weight and momentum. I know that it is this very thing that has led to many complaints, but I love it. Most important of all the game lets me fly around in a space ship while playing pinball.
COME ON! It does not get any better than that. Even my girlfriend who has never gotten into your games before got drawn into some of the logic puzzles.
You knocked this one out of the park and my excitement for Nightsky has grown even greater than before. Now quit moping and take over the world all ready. I have an "All Hail Nifflas" banner all printed up and ready to hang out in front of my house.
P.S. More Saira episodes. Make them...OR ELSE. Actually I have no ending for that, since I could never hurt you, the great and mighty overlord of being awesome.
I <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 Nifflas. But in a completely heterosexual way. I don't want you guys getting the wrong idea about me :crazy:
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This topic is cute. :)
Beomene, how do you even know Nifflas was sad or disappointed? It's definitely nice to care, but I think you were jumping to conclusions because of how certain comments made YOU feel (even though there are more positive than negative, which has been stated already).
Anyway, not trying to put a damper on things here, I agree with what everyone has said. If Nifflas was ever feeling down, I bet he isn't now!
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Thanks everyone! It means a lot that you like what I do! Once I have relaxed a bit I'll get started on something new. Right now I feel like I want to focus on small productions for a while.
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A very small number of people are upset because they were expecting another knytt and they didn't get it. They got a new game, and it's awesome.
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Yeah, that seemed to be the gist of it.
The only thing that I didn't like about it was that the graphics on the main part (don't know the proper name..) was boring half the time, but the back and foregrounds were cool enough to make up for it.
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The only thing that I didn't like about it was that the graphics on the main part (don't know the proper name..) was boring half the time, but the back and foregrounds were cool enough to make up for it.
Actually, I think that's the point.
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This topic is cute. :)
Beomene, how do you even know Nifflas was sad or disappointed? It's definitely nice to care, but I think you were jumping to conclusions because of how certain comments made YOU feel (even though there are more positive than negative, which has been stated already).
Anyway, not trying to put a damper on things here, I agree with what everyone has said. If Nifflas was ever feeling down, I bet he isn't now!
I'm not gonna go into details,
but I spoke to him on the phone.
I'm kind of a phone-psychic, y'know, I hear what you say as well as what you're not saying simultaneously.
*concieted smile*
Maybe we can give you a Saira-directors cut DVD where I tell each excruciating detail,
whilst Nifflas in a polite way claim I exaggerate,
but for now, I'm gonna be a bit mysterious and enigmatic and so forth...
We will meet tomorrow, signing papers and stuff.
I will amass all my empathy, which will propably make my eyes glow an eerie yellow, and peer at him whenever he is not looking, to try to delve into his mind without him noticing.
And if he notices, well, fail... But at least I will know how he's feeling.
And thanks for the congratulations Heartskuppy...!
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Thanks everyone! It means a lot that you like what I do! Once I have relaxed a bit I'll get started on something new. Right now I feel like I want to focus on small productions for a while.
Small productions, eh? Quark simulator CONFIRMED. Live the life of everyone's favorite sub-atomic particle--Nifflas style.
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Small productions, eh? Quark simulator CONFIRMED. Live the life of everyone's favorite sub-atomic particle--Nifflas style.
Shh... Don't go there! He might do it... :O
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Nah... Nano Pack 2!!! :P
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Spoke to him on the phone eh Beomene? I suppose I can't argue with you then; you heard his tone of voice and such. :P
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Spoke to him on the phone eh Beomene? I suppose I can't argue with you then; you heard his tone of voice and such. :P
Yep. I didn't need my psychic powers, he was quite frank about his feelings that time.
Well, speaking about moods; he passed with flying colours yesterday!
He already mentioned one idea he has for the next game, I got really intrigued. Well, who wouldn't... ^_ ^
I love his apartment, lots of nes Mario and instruments everywhere.
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Nifflas, the people that thought saira sucked, They don't appreciate very good games like this. They are probably playing crappy computer games.
Saira was one of the most awesome games from you (although ive only played the demo). The puzzles were a good feature to this game like the maze and crystal one for example. The fact that you explore space is very awesome. The level editing is a little hard like the notepading for example but i don't think its too hard because i just take a look at the notepad files in your own episodes. I think the hardest part is the planet design and graphics. I need a bit of help on that.
Saira is basically a 2010 version of knytt stories except...
Exploring space
Puzzles
High quality planet pictures
and more
If you have the time nifflas, make more episodes for saira. I would like a good extension to the game.
The episode is short (Its like a big, awesome present in a small box)
Cheer up nifflas, The haters have to face that your games are AWESOME :nuts:
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Small productions, eh? Quark simulator CONFIRMED. Live the life of everyone's favorite sub-atomic particle--Nifflas style.
He could give a whole now meaning to 'physics based gameplay' 8)
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Small productions, eh? Quark simulator CONFIRMED. Live the life of everyone's favorite sub-atomic particle--Nifflas style.
He could give a whole now meaning to 'physics based gameplay' 8)
:awsum:
Seriously though, Nifflas could make this game very epic.
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That would actually be pretty cool. You could combine yourself with other particles to form atoms, and then you could knock them together to create chemical reactions. The more chemical reactions you make, and the more complex materials you make, the higher your score gets. You win when you create life.
Seriously, that game would be awesome.
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...wait what. But it would be awesome in a lulzy way!
Go Nifflas make a quark simulator! :D
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..not quite a simulator, but a fun little game about quarks made by a good friend of mine can be found here (http://www.mindistortion.tv/games/quarkz).
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Lets take a vote. Should Miyako say anything on this topic? :)
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well, if you don't mind being late to the party i don't see any reason why you shouldn't. :P2
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II think that this entire forum should focus on Nifflas' games, and drop the drama at the door.
My opinion on Saira is this. It is just what Nifflas did not include in Knytt Stories, but could have. I like KS better, It holds true to the beautiful simplicity I admired Nifflas for. Saira.. It seems boring to me, and I would rather DONATE to Nifflas as my appreciation for KS than to buy Saira.. the beauty did not only come from the game itself but the community effort and third party design that was created for it. It was an expression of your ambiatic desires with a medium of which to convey it. Saira does not have this.
Call me nostalgic, but that's my take on it. I love Knytt Stories, WaDF and Knytt because of their beautiful simplicity, music and visuals. Saira takes away from that experience with the added baggage, needless physical motions and difficult third party level design.
Keep it simple.
Beomene, in case you need to know, this is LoliC from YT.